Anet; what is your goal for elementalist?

[Feanor.2358]

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:The ele designer obviously thinks class balance is still in 2004 where its all about rolling your face over a key rotation over and over to get top deepeeesss on a meter and all players want are to be glass cannon deepeeesss.

The hilarious part is you don't even come close to getting top deepses on the meter. Not in the initial burst, not in the sustained damage, not anywhere.

@VanWilder.6923 said:I believe Anet want ele players to switch other professions. Its time to move on. Then they are going to nerf other classes too etc ... So that all players know all the professions then players got enough, eventually they will move on to other games.

Nah, just they made a big doodoo with ele balance this time. There's no reason to want your players to move on and lose customers.

[Jski.6180]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:The ele designer obviously thinks class balance is still in 2004 where its all about rolling your face over a key rotation over and over to get top deepeeesss on a meter and all players want are to be glass cannon deepeeesss.

The hilarious part is you don't even come close to getting top deepses on the meter. Not in the initial burst, not in the sustained damage, not anywhere.

@VanWilder.6923 said:I believe Anet want ele players to switch other professions. Its time to move on. Then they are going to nerf other classes too etc ... So that all players know all the professions then players got enough, eventually they will move on to other games.

Nah, just they made a big doodoo with ele balance this time. There's no reason to

want

your players to move on and lose customers.

I still dont get the faces roll thing for dmg on ele you cant do that or your going to interupe your own skills its the one class in the game who has to let there skills go off before doing the next one. If any thing ele is the least faces rolling class in the game.

GW2 is a waiting room at this point for the next game.

[WZC.7910]

Weakest class but the appearance is good.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

Anet has only one goal for ele: punish ele players for not using thief, necro or mesmer.

Those are their pet classes. Play them or be punished.

[TSOdinson.2518]

As a wvwer, under 30 there's no purpose for elementalist in a zerg. Power scourge or hammer rev will bring more dps more instantly with 10x more utility without being full glass. If lava font nerf didn't happen, ya sure there was good utility out of ele. It was the best down cleaver in my opinion. In a blob... I still think they are easily replaced but hiding behind 40+ has an advantage for them. I say this as i mained weaver. I might toy with tempest i feel weaver is that bad atm.

Some of these nerf should only apply to pve....

[Feanor.2358]

@TSOdinson.2518 said:As a wvwer, under 30 there's no purpose for elementalist in a zerg. Power scourge or hammer rev will bring more dps more instantly with 10x more utility without being full glass. If lava font nerf didn't happen, ya sure there was good utility out of ele. It was the best down cleaver in my opinion. In a blob... I still think they are easily replaced but hiding behind 40+ has an advantage for them. I say this as i mained weaver. I might toy with tempest i feel weaver is that bad atm.

Some of these nerf should only apply to pve....

They shouldn't. They put weaver is very bad position in pve as well.

[VanWilder.6923]

@TSOdinson.2518 said:As a wvwer, under 30 there's no purpose for elementalist in a zerg. Power scourge or hammer rev will bring more dps more instantly with 10x more utility without being full glass. If lava font nerf didn't happen, ya sure there was good utility out of ele. It was the best down cleaver in my opinion. In a blob... I still think they are easily replaced but hiding behind 40+ has an advantage for them. I say this as i mained weaver. I might toy with tempest i feel weaver is that bad atm.

Some of these nerf should only apply to pve....

And WHY should PvE elementalists get the nerf?Because the Harpie in T4 fractal can 2 shots to kill an ele. and this is just a normal Harpie, not even a vet.or because PvE mobs respawn and file a complain about how OP an ele is? Ele makes PvE broken, the game is no longer challenge??! all classes can kill the PvE mobs, one can faceroll, one need a lot of repositioning.

I already switched to Thief few days ago and loving it. Thanks Anet.

[Jski.6180]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@TSOdinson.2518 said:As a wvwer, under 30 there's no purpose for elementalist in a zerg. Power scourge or hammer rev will bring more dps more instantly with 10x more utility without being full glass. If lava font nerf didn't happen, ya sure there was good utility out of ele. It was the best down cleaver in my opinion. In a blob... I still think they are easily replaced but hiding behind 40+ has an advantage for them. I say this as i mained weaver. I might toy with tempest i feel weaver is that bad atm.

Some of these nerf should only apply to pve....

They shouldn't. They put weaver is very bad position in pve as well.

Sadly ele been in a very bad position from the start of gw2 but most ppl where blinded by the dmg it was doing so let it get nerf over and over. It was the gen. class with in a game where all classes could do every thing and where made to be such a way. It only got worst as they add in specialization.

[TSOdinson.2518]

@VanWilder.6923 said:

@TSOdinson.2518 said:As a wvwer, under 30 there's no purpose for elementalist in a zerg. Power scourge or hammer rev will bring more dps more instantly with 10x more utility without being full glass. If lava font nerf didn't happen, ya sure there was good utility out of ele. It was the best down cleaver in my opinion. In a blob... I still think they are easily replaced but hiding behind 40+ has an advantage for them. I say this as i mained weaver. I might toy with tempest i feel weaver is that bad atm.

Some of these nerf should only apply to pve....

And WHY should PvE elementalists get the nerf?Because the Harpie in T4 fractal can 2 shots to kill an ele. and this is just a normal Harpie, not even a vet.or because PvE mobs respawn and file a complain about how OP an ele is? Ele makes PvE broken, the game is no longer challenge??! all classes can kill the PvE mobs, one can faceroll, one need a lot of repositioning.

I already switched to Thief few days ago and loving it. Thanks Anet.

Obviously I don't care as much what happens in pve but I don't want to see any nerf in any game mode. I really don't understand nerfing dps for pve.... Especially for a class that offers nothing but dps. The dps has suffered so bad in wvw, weavers have to go full glass zerker in order to be able to stay competitive. 1 single backstab, gg. All warriors need to do now is rush backline, full counter and hammer aoe and watch the eles melt. They are literally only used for is wall bombing from 1 single skill... MS. Keep defense is good but only effective if there's a guardian actually up on the wall with you giving stab and sustain.

[Quasar.1756]

@"Nath Forge Tempete.1645" said:LAva font has no difference on little or huge hitbox ... it tikes one time per second no matter the target size ... so i don't get why they had to reduce that ... they just picked the skills that deals the most dmg on dps meter and nerfed it .In the order:

• Meteor Shower
• Lava font
• Glyph of storm (air)
• Lightning hammer skill 4
• Icebow skill 4

Easy to understand the nerf mechanics here ! Instead of putting effort into revamping old and cheesy mechanics (such as MS and conjures) they just toned down numbers. Easier and takes less effort and time. Maybe they are low on budget.

Your statement opened my eyes to something. If the nerfs were intended to be across all modes of play (PvE, PvP, etc...), WHY did Anet hit the skills USED for a RAID dps rotation for Eles???

Hmmmm...Should I conclude that 99% of the Ele 'CHANGES' are based off of raids??? O.O

NOTE: Not being sarcastic here, just seeing a new perspective on the "REASONING' for the ele 'CHANGES' since PoF launch.

[Bladestrom.6425]

@Quasar.1756 said:

@"Nath Forge Tempete.1645" said:LAva font has no difference on little or huge hitbox ... it tikes one time per second no matter the target size ... so i don't get why they had to reduce that ... they just picked the skills that deals the most dmg on dps meter and nerfed it .In the order:

• Meteor Shower
• Lava font
• Glyph of storm (air)
• Lightning hammer skill 4
• Icebow skill 4

Easy to understand the nerf mechanics here ! Instead of putting effort into revamping old and cheesy mechanics (such as MS and conjures) they just toned down numbers. Easier and takes less effort and time. Maybe they are low on budget.

Your statement opened my eyes to something. If the nerfs were intended to be across all modes of play (PvE, PvP, etc...), WHY did Anet hit the skills USED for a RAID dps rotation for Eles???

Hmmmm...Should I conclude that 99% of the Ele 'CHANGES' are based off of raids??? O.O

NOTE:

Not being sarcastic here, just seeing a new perspective on the "REASONING' for the ele 'CHANGES' since PoF launch.

Thats exactly whats going on. Its really really easy to quantify dps on a dummy/boss/piece of static npc meat, except this isn't WOW, the game does not gravitate around raids, its just a blindly obvious failing by whoever the hell it is that thinks this is how you balance for a game like GW2.

All said however the real root cause of all balance ills is the incredibly slow turnaround for balance changes. Their dev-ops operations should be a focus to drive out this massive inefficiency which is probably the number one grievance by players and therefore arguable the best bang for the buck in terms of investment -> player happiness. Players will always have issues with balance passes, but that grievance melts away if you know balance changes are weekly/daily etc, that's something players will live with.

[Feanor.2358]

@Quasar.1756 said:

@Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:LAva font has no difference on little or huge hitbox ... it tikes one time per second no matter the target size ... so i don't get why they had to reduce that ... they just picked the skills that deals the most dmg on dps meter and nerfed it .In the order:

• Meteor Shower
• Lava font
• Glyph of storm (air)
• Lightning hammer skill 4
• Icebow skill 4

Easy to understand the nerf mechanics here ! Instead of putting effort into revamping old and cheesy mechanics (such as MS and conjures) they just toned down numbers. Easier and takes less effort and time. Maybe they are low on budget.

Your statement opened my eyes to something. If the nerfs were intended to be across all modes of play (PvE, PvP, etc...), WHY did Anet hit the skills USED for a RAID dps rotation for Eles???

These are the skills used for damage everywhere in PvE.

[Quasar.1756]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Quasar.1756 said:

@Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:LAva font has no difference on little or huge hitbox ... it tikes one time per second no matter the target size ... so i don't get why they had to reduce that ... they just picked the skills that deals the most dmg on dps meter and nerfed it .In the order:

• Meteor Shower
• Lava font
• Glyph of storm (air)
• Lightning hammer skill 4
• Icebow skill 4

Easy to understand the nerf mechanics here ! Instead of putting effort into revamping old and cheesy mechanics (such as MS and conjures) they just toned down numbers. Easier and takes less effort and time. Maybe they are low on budget.

Your statement opened my eyes to something. If the nerfs were intended to be across all modes of play (PvE, PvP, etc...), WHY did Anet hit the skills USED for a RAID dps rotation for Eles???

These are the skills used for damage everywhere in PvE.

I agree with you on that; however, with over 100 skills used for any game mode, why target the skills 'specifically' USED PRIMARILY FOR RAIDS. (Some of those skills have been 'changed', more than once tbh.)

If all these skills were 'changed' at one time then I would think nothing of it.

But they got hit over a course of time cause the META for DPS rotations and skills changed over the course of time as well.

I feel it's too 'coincidental' that the skills 'changed' were NOT MEANT to affect RAIDS . I highly doubt people have the time or luck to accomplish a RAID DPS rotation in fractals or Map Bosses (chuckles).

And if what you state is taken into account, then the 'changes' WERE NOT meant to be across the board, thus why most people who PvP can't understand why this happened. :(

Just my opinion.

[Feanor.2358]

Again, they aren't "used primarily for raids". They're the best ele skills in PvE, period. The only reason you might see them more used in raids is because there it actually matters to be efficient.

[Quasar.1756]

@"Feanor.2358" said:Again, they aren't "used primarily for raids". They're the best ele skills in PvE, period. The only reason you might see them more used in raids is because there it actually matters to be efficient.

Well, allow me to disagree with you on the fact that they're 'RAID' builds and "Fractal' builds which don't use those skills collectively.

As these skills produce the optimal dps output on targets (most not all), It's best/primarily used on raid bosses that have timers, when dealing with fractals; some bosses require survivabilty, mobility & distance. (At least for squishy Eles for the most part)

"Primarily" definition: (Mainly; For the MOST part)....Which, more than 50%, these skills are used for in raids not ALL PvE content, thus why it's labeled a utility sequence for a "RAID BUILD" not PvE world bosses or Fractals.

Now; you CAN use the "RAID BUILD" utilities/spells for all PvE content, but is it OPTIMAL for that situation other than RAIDS when encountering certain NPCS in other game modes? High/Burst DPS, for an ele, is not essential in alot of PvE content outside of RAIDS, survivablity is...remember DS Meta?

Just my opinion.

[Feanor.2358]

@Quasar.1756 said:

@"Feanor.2358" said:Again, they aren't "used primarily for raids". They're the best ele skills in PvE, period. The only reason you might see them more used in raids is because there it actually matters to be efficient.

Well, allow me to disagree with you on the fact that they're 'RAID' builds and "Fractal' builds which don't use those skills collectively.

As these skills produce the optimal dps output on targets (most not all), It's best/primarily used on raid bosses that have timers, when dealing with fractals; some bosses require survivabilty, mobility & distance. (At least for squishy Eles for the most part)

"Primarily" definition: (Mainly; For the MOST part)....Which, more than 50%, these skills are used for in raids not ALL PvE content, thus why it's labeled a utility sequence for a "RAID BUILD" not PvE world bosses or Fractals.

Now; you CAN use the "RAID BUILD" utilities/spells for all PvE content, but is it OPTIMAL for that situation other than RAIDS when encountering certain NPCS in other game modes? High/Burst DPS, for an ele, is not essential in alot of PvE content outside of RAIDS, survivablity is...remember DS Meta?

Just my opinion.

Your opinion is wrong. Timers have nothing to do with efficiency - every semi-adequate group will kill the boss much before there's any chance for the timer to expire. Efficiency is primarily a way to minimize risk. Faster kills and faster phases mean less boss attacks and mechanics to deal with, and therefore less chances for something to go wrong. The same holds true in fractals, that's why you see exactly the same meta group composition in high-level fractal groups, with the actual top-level fractal statics even dropping the healer to get another dps. There is no timer, yet the meta is actually even sharper there. Because it is possible.

By the way, to this day I play DS meta on the same full glass build I play everything else. I swap LH for Icebow and Primordial Stance for Arcane Wave, but that's it. The purpose is obviously not survivability, it is being able to more efficiently tag mobs. And yeah, it is optimal. First off, you can survive in full glass, because there's actually zero reason to get hit. Second, the "fast kill, less mechanics" logic applies here, too. From Thornhearts to Preservers, it is always better to nuke down the target as fast as possible.

[Quasar.1756]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Quasar.1756 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:Again, they aren't "used primarily for raids". They're the best ele skills in PvE, period. The only reason you might see them more used in raids is because there it actually matters to be efficient.

Well, allow me to disagree with you on the fact that they're 'RAID' builds and "Fractal' builds which don't use those skills collectively.

As these skills produce the optimal dps output on targets (most not all), It's best/primarily used on raid bosses that have timers, when dealing with fractals; some bosses require survivabilty, mobility & distance. (At least for squishy Eles for the most part)

"Primarily" definition: (Mainly; For the MOST part)....Which, more than 50%, these skills are used for in raids not ALL PvE content, thus why it's labeled a utility sequence for a "RAID BUILD" not PvE world bosses or Fractals.

Now; you CAN use the "RAID BUILD" utilities/spells for all PvE content, but is it OPTIMAL for that situation other than RAIDS when encountering certain NPCS in other game modes? High/Burst DPS, for an ele, is not essential in alot of PvE content outside of RAIDS, survivablity is...remember DS Meta?

Just my opinion.

Your opinion is wrong. Timers have nothing to do with efficiency - every semi-adequate group will kill the boss much before there's any chance for the timer to expire. Efficiency is primarily a way to minimize risk. Faster kills and faster phases mean less boss attacks and mechanics to deal with, and therefore less chances for something to go wrong. The same holds true in fractals, that's why you see exactly the same meta group composition in high-level fractal groups, with the actual top-level fractal statics even dropping the healer to get another dps. There is no timer, yet the meta is actually even sharper there. Because it is possible.

By the way, to this day I play DS meta on the same full glass build I play everything else. I swap LH for Icebow and Primordial Stance for Arcane Wave, but that's it. The purpose is obviously not survivability, it is being able to more efficiently tag mobs. And yeah, it is optimal. First off, you can survive in full glass, because there's actually zero reason to get hit. Second, the "fast kill, less mechanics" logic applies here, too. From Thornhearts to Preservers, it is always better to nuke down the target as fast as possible.

Like I said, it's just my opinion.

Timers compel a group/squad to be extremely efficient. As you stated the 'fast kill, less mechanics' logic. So to say "Timers have NOTHING to do with efficiency" is misleading to the reader and yourself.

I NEVER stated that bursting a boss down in PvE is not the way to go, but I posed the question, 'IS IT OPTIMAL FOR THE SITUATION'? You clearly didn't account for the 2 other factors of a boss encounter in a PvE setting other than raids; such as: Mobility & Distance.

Congrats on your DS meta runs, but even you had to ADMIT running with 100% "RAID BUILD" is not the OPTIMAL way to go about the event. You use ICEBOW & Arcane Wave to tag mobs, 'more efficiently', when you can easily tag mobs with Fire Staff 1 & 3 with waaaay less CD's. However; I won't chastise you for your play style on DS meta, but one this is FOR SURE, you ARE NOT USING THE 'RAID BUILD' for it.

For the record, if you re-read my post, I never stated that all PvE content outside of raids won't benefit from using a 'RAID BUILD' for optimal results. I merely implied using the 'fast kill, less mechanics' method is NOT OPTIMAL for ALL PvE encounters outside of raids in GW2 and most of the skills/utilities are USED PRIMARILY for RAIDS. Mechanics requires you to be mobile, keep at a distance & survive, it's a must for eles to stay in a fight...How does the saying go, 'A dead dps hinders more than helps the squad'.

By your rebuttal, you are saying all the skill/utilities ANET 'changed', for eles, throughout the course of months is used PRIMARILY used in ALL PvE content...and that's NOT TRUE.

Maybe YOU go by that logic, but the gw2 community DOESN'T. If that be true and we take your rebuttal into account, then we have to say that ANET made those changes because of a few and it affected many...do we want to go down that path :(

I get what you are saying, but alot of ppl don't have the skill level you probably do when it comes to PvE'ing outside of raids. Congrats on your efficient method to kill NPCS in fractals and world bosses, but the reality of gw2 is, not everyone approaches situations with 'kill fast, less mechanics' stlye.

FYI: DS Meta HAS A TIMER AS WELL, but you didnt use a RAID BUILD to approach that situation you volunteered for and you still got what you wanted accomplished, even YOU didnt use those nerfed skills outside raids...enjoy your day

[Feanor.2358]

@Quasar.1756 said:I get what you are saying, but alot of ppl don't have the skill level you probably do when it comes to PvE'ing outside of raids. Congrats on your efficient method to kill NPCS in fractals and world bosses, but the reality of gw2 is, not everyone approaches situations with 'kill fast, less mechanics' stlye.

Oh, you're absolutely right here. But balance changes are never made for the casual players. They make no difference for them.

[Savach.7219]

at a time when the developer listened to the groans of the noobs and simply armless, the elementalist stopped having the future because he was a niche for experienced and professional players who, despite the glassiness of the class, could do everything .Now, for the sake of sales or disabled people, they write that one class should not have such a potential, while not being able to play because "he dies a lot" (and therefore not interesting), this class has ceased to make any sense

[Bio Flame.4276]

Balance was never GW2 strongest point, let's admit it. But now the farce is over, they don't even care anymore.Wanna nerf Ele's damage? Sure, do it.Don't want Eles to be top DPS on raids? Sure, nerf away.

But if Eles are now dealing less damage than Heavy Armor / High HP classes and don't heal nor bring support/buff skills to the party, then.......wtf?

Who's in charge of balance? Is it MO's relative instead of a skilled Dev?Do they care?

[Savach.7219]

2021.. less and less players playing for this class, I rarely meet them.. however as expected

[Touchme.1097]

My thoughts about Elementalist as a player who played this profession on all builds and modes.PvE: It's underpowered compared to the time and skills it takes to master this profession, needs buffs or a complete rework especially on the healing aspect of tempestPvP: Only viable as bunker build, this means we have to sacrifice all our damage to survive and compete for control.WvW: Not viable as a roamer for the average player, not valuable in zerg as its outperformed by other professions and it's currently out of the Meta.Open world: Squishy, too much efforts to play it right, not as bursty and tankier as other options like necromancers or mesmers.

Overall if you are making one profession hard to master you should also reward players based on the high risk high reward otherwise it just cannot compete.

[javier.9786]

So sad, I was comming back for a leave of 2 years of gw2 and lately I was playing shaman in wow so when I came back to gw2 I start a new character as elemental since its the most close to shaman and my 1st impression was "why do I die so fast? Maybe I'm doing my rotation bad" so I came to the forums and this is what I found.

Btw I read on another post that heavy and light armor can get the same damage output but they have a huge diference in armor, is it right?

Also, I wonder (but already have the idea) can elemental play as tanks? I love the idea of an earth theme tank

[AliamRationem.5172]

@"javier.9786" said:So sad, I was comming back for a leave of 2 years of gw2 and lately I was playing shaman in wow so when I came back to gw2 I start a new character as elemental since its the most close to shaman and my 1st impression was "why do I die so fast? Maybe I'm doing my rotation bad" so I came to the forums and this is what I found.

Btw I read on another post that heavy and light armor can get the same damage output but they have a huge diference in armor, is it right?

Also, I wonder (but already have the idea) can elemental play as tanks? I love the idea of an earth theme tank

The difference between 19k health with 2.3k armor and 11k health with 2k armor is significant. I definitely feel that squeeze when playing at buildcraft with ele. I don't think it would kill GW2 to just make medium health and armor baseline for all classes at this point. The disparity feels unnecessary.

Having said that, this is GW2 and no class is just one thing. You can build tanky with ele.

[Obtena.7952]

@Chasind.3128 said:Just legitimately wondering, what is anets vision for the elementalist class for all play modes.

What do you expect from the elementalist in PvP? Are they only meant for 1v1 or team fights? Both?What is your vision for elementalists in WvW? With the upcoming nerf to their only long ranged weapon, what do you hope for the elementalist? What will their role turn to?How about elementalists in PvE & Raids?

What do you guys think about elementalist in its current state and soon to be future state?Please share your thoughts/ suggestions and opinions!

These aren't the right questions. Why would anyone think Anet has a vision for a class for a game mode?