Power Reaper Fix — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Power Reaper Fix

I think I may have a simple fix for the damage of Power Reaper.

Either:

  • Dread: Inflicting Chill on a foe applies vulnerability. Deal increased damage to foes inflicted with Chill. (Damage Increase: 20%)
  • The above trait is in Spite so it may upset the balance of other specs that I'm just not aware of but in Reaper's case, it would help a ton because if you compare Power Reaper to other classes such as Power Soulbeast and/or Power Spellbreaker, both of those classes have ridiculous damage increasing buffs at their disposal which put them on people's radars... Reaper does not.

OR

  • Chilling Nova: Critical hits against foes Chill them for 1.75s.

AND

  • Cold Shoulder: Chill lasts longer, and chilled foes take more damage from your attacks. (Damage Increase: 30% Duration Increase: 20%)
  • The above changes to Chilling Nova and Cold Shoulder would not only make applying and maintaining Chill a non-issue but, as I mentioned earlier, it would make Power Reaper damage comparable to Power Soulbeast and Power Spellbreaker.

In any case. I've tried just about everything I can think of and I just can't seem to get my DPS to and above 25k on the training golem. Maybe I'm just doing something terribly wrong but seeing those numbers when I see 30k+ on literally any other power class is disheartening.

<1

Comments

  • Rhyse.8179Rhyse.8179 Member ✭✭✭

    Power reaper is fine. Well, mostly fine. All it needs are minor tweaks.

    -It needs more >50% DPS from it's GS. All of it's >50% dps comes from shroud atm.
    -It needs a power-based ranged weapon that can cleave.

    That's about the only problems I have with it. The training golem undervalues Reaper, since it doesn't replicate burn phases, and Reaper can put out truly massive burst damage with Shroud.

    Try it with dagger and see if the overall dps improves. I havn't tested it on the golem, but I'll bet it does a lot more >50% damage then GS. It may fall off in the <50% range though.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 6, 2018

    Rather change Gravedigger.
    Gravedigger should be changed IMO.
    Its should recharge instantly when Life-force is under the threshold or when killing an enemy and should generate Life-force depending on dmg dealt to a target. This way you can spam gravedigger, enter shroud, deal dmg, leave shroud, spam gravedigger rince and repeat.
    Would make the weapon atleast more dynamic IMO. The average dmg should atleast be the same, otherwise they should change the GS trait in a way that improves power reapers performance.

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rhyse.8179 said:
    -It needs a power-based ranged weapon that can cleave.

    Why exactly is this needed? Do you have a specific scenario in mind?

    Also on the topic, don't put these damage modifiers into minor traits as those carry over to PvP builds as well. Reaper does "enough" in that section of the game. I play it myself but any more free damage for Reaper is too much. I can already go for a Blood build, not pick any of the damage traits on Reaper, and still 1-shot people from 50%-75% health with Gravedigger.

    So to boost Reapers PvE damage, put the damage into traits that don't get forced into PvP builds. If someone wants to build for damage with major trait choices in PvP, that's okay because they are giving something up for it.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 6, 2018

    @Rhyse.8179 said:
    Try it with dagger and see if the overall dps improves. I havn't tested it on the golem, but I'll bet it does a lot more >50% damage then GS. It may fall off in the <50% range though.

    The GS autoattack alone deals more damage than the whole dagger/wh or dagger/focus weaponset. When you add the other 4 skills on GS, it outperforms dagger by around 20% dps even above 50%. The GS auto got several buffs in the last few patches (more damage, less aftercast). And GS3 deals now 50% more damage above 50% health.

    Dagger is complete trash in PvE now. It has its niche in PvP when you build for 1v1 due to its immob and skill 2 ranged pressure. But that's it. Even in PvP it needs an autoattack damage buff by at least 10% to be considered viable.

    @topic:
    Buffing dread is useless as this conflicts with awaken the pain which is also a dps increase trait. You would have to drop one dps trait for another. Further dps buffs have to be placed in other trait sections.

  • Rhyse.8179Rhyse.8179 Member ✭✭✭

    Oops. I missed the GS buffs in the notes.

  • Sublimatio.6981Sublimatio.6981 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 7, 2018

    @Rhyse.8179 said:
    The training golem undervalues Reaper, since it doesn't replicate burn phases, and Reaper can put out truly massive burst damage with Shroud.

    This statement is incorrect. Reaper burst is incredibly weak compared to bursts of other classes such as SLB, DGH, Holo, power chronos, thieves, eles and others.
    Please don't write that reaper is comparably good if it's not, because it's harmful to healthy discussion.

    "clang clang shriiiiek clang!" -Belinda Delaqua
    When I join your LFG

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 7, 2018

    @Hot Boy.7138 said:
    People have come up with so many ideas to fix increase reaper dps, a lot of which were really good. I don't think anet wants reapers, or maybe even necros, to have competitive dps. I think the reason for that is because necros essentially have 2 life bars. That's my guess.

    Why would they keep buffing it then? Because it is almost at that perfect spot.

    Smugly chuckling forever.
    My sentence doesn't make sense? Well, I probably forgot to write half of it before posting.

  • Hot Boy.7138Hot Boy.7138 Member ✭✭✭

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Hot Boy.7138 said:
    People have come up with so many ideas to fix increase reaper dps, a lot of which were really good. I don't think anet wants reapers, or maybe even necros, to have competitive dps. I think the reason for that is because necros essentially have 2 life bars. That's my guess.

    Why would they keep buffing it then? Because it is almost at that perfect spot.

    How many patches have comes and gone since reaper went live? I don't know the answer to your question. All i have is my guess that I stated before.

  • killfil.3472killfil.3472 Member ✭✭✭

    Gravedigger should hit twice...

  • Sublimatio.6981Sublimatio.6981 Member ✭✭✭

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Hot Boy.7138 said:
    People have come up with so many ideas to fix increase reaper dps, a lot of which were really good. I don't think anet wants reapers, or maybe even necros, to have competitive dps. I think the reason for that is because necros essentially have 2 life bars. That's my guess.

    Why would they keep buffing it then? Because it is almost at that perfect spot.

    how is 27k dps a perfect spot while other classes do 34k or more? while also having survivability (for example soulbeast gains free signet of stone when dropped below 50% hp and a lot of dodges/blocks on weapon skills). also if you think reaper is not abandoned by arenanet then you are deluding yourself - just look how they didnt fix well casting animations while wielding greatsword - since 2015 HoT release. and that has been reported repeatedly by me on various platforms. they don't care about necro. their favourites are mesmers, warriors, rangers, deadeyes and eles.

    "clang clang shriiiiek clang!" -Belinda Delaqua
    When I join your LFG

  • Methuselah.4376Methuselah.4376 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 7, 2018

    Decimate Defenses should have the added effect of allowing the Reaper to deal 1% extra damage for each stack of vulnerability.

  • Anchoku.8142Anchoku.8142 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 7, 2018

    @Sublimatio.6981 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Hot Boy.7138 said:
    People have come up with so many ideas to fix increase reaper dps, a lot of which were really good. I don't think anet wants reapers, or maybe even necros, to have competitive dps. I think the reason for that is because necros essentially have 2 life bars. That's my guess.

    Why would they keep buffing it then? Because it is almost at that perfect spot.

    how is 27k dps a perfect spot while other classes do 34k or more? while also having survivability (for example soulbeast gains free signet of stone when dropped below 50% hp and a lot of dodges/blocks on weapon skills). also if you think reaper is not abandoned by arenanet then you are deluding yourself - just look how they didnt fix well casting animations while wielding greatsword - since 2015 HoT release. and that has been reported repeatedly by me on various platforms. they don't care about necro. their favourites are mesmers, warriors, rangers, deadeyes and eles.

    The problem is that Defiance and Boss encounter design is a direct nerf to Necromancer's own design so PvE and competitive modes are hard to balance. If they wanted, they could simply add a damage modifier versus Defiant in any minor of any trait line to boost dps closer to the median.

    Put a +20% damage vs Defiant on Soul Comprehension for all I care and we will all run Death Magic in raids.

  • Sublimatio.6981Sublimatio.6981 Member ✭✭✭

    @Anchoku.8142 said:
    Put a +20% damage vs Defiant on Soul Comprehension for all I care and we will all run Death Magic in raids.

    that would be a disaster. what about mobs without defiance bar? also why punish for breaking their bar as well? since they wont be defiant when broken. not a good idea.

    "clang clang shriiiiek clang!" -Belinda Delaqua
    When I join your LFG

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭

    I definitely think Power Reaper in pve needs some love.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • Anchoku.8142Anchoku.8142 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sublimatio.6981 said:

    @Anchoku.8142 said:
    Put a +20% damage vs Defiant on Soul Comprehension for all I care and we will all run Death Magic in raids.

    that would be a disaster. what about mobs without defiance bar? also why punish for breaking their bar as well? since they wont be defiant when broken. not a good idea.

    Does dps really matter on mobs without Defiance?

  • Sublimatio.6981Sublimatio.6981 Member ✭✭✭

    @Anchoku.8142 said:
    Does dps really matter on mobs without Defiance?

    yes - burst

    "clang clang shriiiiek clang!" -Belinda Delaqua
    When I join your LFG

  • Anchoku.8142Anchoku.8142 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 7, 2018

    @Sublimatio.6981 said:

    @Anchoku.8142 said:
    Does dps really matter on mobs without Defiance?

    yes - burst

    If conditions like blind and cripple work against real players and trash mobs, is it fair to want more burst?

    I am not disagreeing with your desire for Reaper improvements but merely pointing out that a special modifier versus Defiance can close the gap between PvE and competitive balance.

    If the developers wanted, they could force Necro dps vs bosses higher and make balancing easier on themselves across the rest of the game.

  • Sublimatio.6981Sublimatio.6981 Member ✭✭✭

    @Anchoku.8142 said:
    If conditions like blind and cripple work against real players and trash mobs, is it fair to want more burst?

    yes because other classes can also blind and cripple

    "clang clang shriiiiek clang!" -Belinda Delaqua
    When I join your LFG

  • Freyr.6980Freyr.6980 Member ✭✭

    @dceptaconroy.7928 said:
    How about they just revert: 10 to 7secs sos + shroud degen rate. Do those 2 things. Nothing new just those 2. Let's start with the nerfs before the tweaks. Flippin simple. I'd shut my gap if they gave those 2 back.

    I agree!

    Instead of buffing or tweaking, why not just revert some of the changes? Other classes have fair tradeoffs, but Necro legitimately just suffers.

    I don't want Necro to be OP but like ... reverting that DS nerf would be PERFECT.

    Honestly, people want to complain, "OH BUT NECRO HAS 2 HEALTH BARS!" ... when your combo is contingent upon you actually staying within DS which can legitimately become melted within a split second of entering it. Because it has been tweaked to now be more of a burst than a healthbar.

    And not only that, but does it really compare to classes with tons of stab and blocks that can just run around in circles all day?

    We all talk about the "burst" of DS ... that is what ArenaNet wanted Reaper to be from the start. The PROBLEM with that is Reaper did NOT start off as a "burst" ... DS was legitimately treated like a second health bar. And your traits will reflect that. Part of keeping Reaper "Reaper" was treating DS like a healthbar. Sorry. But if people want to start telling me that Necro has a 2nd healthbar with little to no sustain, escapes, stab, etc., then I will just ignore you.

    DS has been fragmented into a 2nd healthbar while trying to be a burst mechanic. What do Necros have to escape? Spectral walk where everyone can see your trail? Plague Worm that only x-y axis, not z, so a bump in the terrain can legitimately stop you? That's basically it. Oh yeah, shroud 2 that will auto-target enemies within a certain range from you.

    I mean, now Reaper/Necro is this quasi-modo of "what should have been" and "what is". They were indecisive at some point along the way. It started with Reaper being created with DS being treated like a healthbar when they said Reaper was ALWAYS supposed to be a burst. And when did the rework of Reaper happen ? When did Reaper finally reflect ArenaNet's vision? Like 2-3 yrs after HoT was released, LOL. But if people want to act as though Necro's DS is the be-all end-all over tons of stab, sustain, escape, etc. that other classes have, then keep at it!

  • Fatalyz.7168Fatalyz.7168 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 9, 2018

    A thought that I had to a buff:

    Reaper's Onslaught: Attack faster and gain ferocity while in a reaper's shroud. Hitting with Life Reap reduces the recharge of all shroud skills. Deal increased damage while you have Quickness.

    The idea behind this would be to try to regain some of the efficiency that this trait losses when you do have quickness, since they don't stack. The numbers could be easily adjusted to however you wanted the playstyle to feel, and easily seperate between game modes.

    There are already examples of traits that provide increased damage while under the effects of specifc boons. The Warrior trait, Warrior's Sprint, comes to mind. It provides 7% increased damage while you have swiftness.

  • @Methuselah.4376 I like this idea. It could be that, in addition to getting 50% Critical Chance from 25 stacks of Vulnerability, we get a stacking +2% Damage Increase from each stack of Vulnerability instead of the normal +1% for a total of +50% Damage Increase.

    @Freyr.6980 Another idea I had was that instead of Reaper's Life Force decaying over time it could be like Scourge's Sand Shroud in that our abilities would cost Life Force, allowing us to stay in shroud a lot longer. Life Rend, Life Slash, and Life Reap could cost: 2%,3%, and 5% LF respectively, Death's Charge could cost 15%, Infuse Terror could cost 2% and Terrify could cost 3%, Soul Spiral could cost 25% LF, and Executioner's Scythe could cost 35% LF. I'm not sure if this would be a good idea or how, if at all, damage numbers would have to be tweaked to compensate, but it's a thought.

    @""Dadnir.5038" I honestly didn't think about how the change to Chilling Nova that I proposed would affect Deathly Chill, good eye. Perhaps, then, Deathly Chill could be changed in tandem with Chilling Nova to: "Striking a Chilled foe deals Damage: 352", with a 2s CD timer maybe? I do agree with all of your points though, thank you for the constructive criticism.

    @Fatalyz.7168 I think a +10% Damage Increase on this ability could be good in general honestly. After all, it's called, "Reaper's Onslaught".

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Another issue here is that any time you add more chill you only proceed to make condition reaper stronger and not power reaper.

    I still stand by the
    Remove the cd reset from grave digger.

    Landing grave digger on at least 1 target grants a increased damage effect for the duration of GD's cd foes hit under 50% increause the duration of the buff effect and its effectiveness. This way it solves the grave digger spam problem people dont like in rotations while provided bonus damage across all skills and not just those on weapons or locked behind shroud or specific traits. It allows for flexibility while achieving the gaols people want. In pvp if you can land grave digger you should be rewarded with a dps boost not cd reset the odds you land it twice are unlikely.

    In pve it gets old spamming it one time after another and its does not feel good to want to invest in reaper shroud when using it lowers your damage when a foe drops under 50%

  • Kalendraf.9521Kalendraf.9521 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 10, 2018

    I'd like to see DS skill 3 Infusing Terror reworked. I dislike it's either/or behavior with Terrify. Instead of having to end it early to get the fear effect, I'd prefer if the fear was integrated with the skill directly and also improved. I'd also like to see the Damage reductions improved to be more in line with protection. For example:

    Infusing Terror - Shroud yourself with dark armor that grants stability, reduces incoming damage and pulses fear.

    • Damage Reduced: 33%
    • Condition Damage Reduced: 33%
    • Stability (3 stacks) (6s): Cannot be knocked down, pushed back, pulled, launched, stunned, dazed, floated, sunk, feared or taunted.
    • Fear (1s) (3 pulses at 2 second intervals): Involuntary retreat; unable to act; stacks duration
    • Duration: 6s
    • Radius: 360

    The pulsing fear and impoved DR would make it a much more reliable "oh kitten" button, plus the extra fear pulses would improve it slightly for the purpose of using it as a CC option against breakbars in PvE.

    Proud to be a member of the Charter Vanguard [CV] on the Henge of Denravi

  • Aetatis.5418Aetatis.5418 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kalendraf.9521 said:
    I'd like to see DS skill 3 Infusing Terror reworked. I dislike it's either/or behavior with Terrify. Instead of having to end it early to get the fear effect, I'd prefer if the fear was integrated with the skill directly and also improved. I'd also like to see the Damage reductions improved to be more in line with protection. For example:

    Infusing Terror - Shroud yourself with dark armor that grants stability, reduces incoming damage and pulses fear.

    • Damage Reduced: 33%
    • Condition Damage Reduced: 33%
    • Stability (3 stacks) (6s): Cannot be knocked down, pushed back, pulled, launched, stunned, dazed, floated, sunk, feared or taunted.
    • Fear (1s) (3 pulses at 2 second intervals): Involuntary retreat; unable to act; stacks duration
    • Duration: 6s
    • Radius: 360

    The pulsing fear and impoved DR would make it a much more reliable "oh kitten" button, plus the extra fear pulses would improve it slightly for the purpose of using it as a CC option against breakbars in PvE.

    technically ... a pulsing fear would make the "armor" effect useless, no?
    like if it is meant to hit and cc somebody attacking you, there is no need for that armor increase (except for longrange professions like ranger or heavy outnumbered... or perma stab).
    pulsing fear is too strong anyway - imo. a single (aoe) fear on pressing the skill would be reliable (and strong, due to instant) enough already, compared to the way it works at the moment.

  • @Kalendraf.9521 said:
    I'd like to see DS skill 3 Infusing Terror reworked. I dislike it's either/or behavior with Terrify. Instead of having to end it early to get the fear effect, I'd prefer if the fear was integrated with the skill directly and also improved. I'd also like to see the Damage reductions improved to be more in line with protection. For example:

    Infusing Terror - Shroud yourself with dark armor that grants stability, reduces incoming damage and pulses fear.

    • Damage Reduced: 33%
    • Condition Damage Reduced: 33%
    • Stability (3 stacks) (6s): Cannot be knocked down, pushed back, pulled, launched, stunned, dazed, floated, sunk, feared or taunted.
    • Fear (1s) (3 pulses at 2 second intervals): Involuntary retreat; unable to act; stacks duration
    • Duration: 6s
    • Radius: 360

    The pulsing fear and impoved DR would make it a much more reliable "oh kitten" button, plus the extra fear pulses would improve it slightly for the purpose of using it as a CC option against breakbars in PvE.

    What about instead reduce damage and condi damage, it reduce LF degen to 1% while it active? stab is still in effect.

  • Methuselah.4376Methuselah.4376 Member ✭✭✭

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    In pve it gets old spamming it one time after another and its does not feel good to want to invest in reaper shroud when using it lowers your damage when a foe drops under 50%

    Actually, once an enemy hits 25% health, RS 5 + 4 does a LOT of damage especially since Executioner's Scythe does great damage to foes at 25% health or less. Honestly, if you're only spamming GS2 on bosses below 50% then you're not executing the most optimal rotation; you still need to cast GS 5 to keep chill up, GS4 and Well of Suffering for ticking AoE damage plus combo fields, and the odd Soul Spiral. I have no problem with spamming Gravedigger because I am of the mentality that it replaces the auto plus I still use other skills to maximize its damage.

  • Zietlogik.6208Zietlogik.6208 Member ✭✭✭

    Shave off 2-3 seconds of Reaper Shroud cooldown (old Speed of Shadows trait reduced it to 7 seconds), make Shroud Dancing a thing to make the mid to close range gameplay feel fluid and rewarding

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Methuselah.4376 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    In pve it gets old spamming it one time after another and its does not feel good to want to invest in reaper shroud when using it lowers your damage when a foe drops under 50%

    Actually, once an enemy hits 25% health, RS 5 + 4 does a LOT of damage especially since Executioner's Scythe does great damage to foes at 25% health or less. Honestly, if you're only spamming GS2 on bosses below 50% then you're not executing the most optimal rotation; you still need to cast GS 5 to keep chill up, GS4 and Well of Suffering for ticking AoE damage plus combo fields, and the odd Soul Spiral. I have no problem with spamming Gravedigger because I am of the mentality that it replaces the auto plus I still use other skills to maximize its damage.

    I agree RS 4 does alot at 25% but RS 5 usually nets me something in the range of 15k damage where as a grave digger at that point is hitting 24k+ RS5 is so lacking in raw power in its lower values in pve imo.

  • Methuselah.4376Methuselah.4376 Member ✭✭✭

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Methuselah.4376 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    In pve it gets old spamming it one time after another and its does not feel good to want to invest in reaper shroud when using it lowers your damage when a foe drops under 50%

    Actually, once an enemy hits 25% health, RS 5 + 4 does a LOT of damage especially since Executioner's Scythe does great damage to foes at 25% health or less. Honestly, if you're only spamming GS2 on bosses below 50% then you're not executing the most optimal rotation; you still need to cast GS 5 to keep chill up, GS4 and Well of Suffering for ticking AoE damage plus combo fields, and the odd Soul Spiral. I have no problem with spamming Gravedigger because I am of the mentality that it replaces the auto plus I still use other skills to maximize its damage.

    I agree RS 4 does alot at 25% but RS 5 usually nets me something in the range of 15k damage where as a grave digger at that point is hitting 24k+ RS5 is so lacking in raw power in its lower values in pve imo.

    Really? I am pretty sure I had gravedigger numbers on RS5 below 50%/25%. Dunno then. I use it anyways for the chill applicaiton

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 13, 2018

    @Methuselah.4376 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Methuselah.4376 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    In pve it gets old spamming it one time after another and its does not feel good to want to invest in reaper shroud when using it lowers your damage when a foe drops under 50%

    Actually, once an enemy hits 25% health, RS 5 + 4 does a LOT of damage especially since Executioner's Scythe does great damage to foes at 25% health or less. Honestly, if you're only spamming GS2 on bosses below 50% then you're not executing the most optimal rotation; you still need to cast GS 5 to keep chill up, GS4 and Well of Suffering for ticking AoE damage plus combo fields, and the odd Soul Spiral. I have no problem with spamming Gravedigger because I am of the mentality that it replaces the auto plus I still use other skills to maximize its damage.

    I agree RS 4 does alot at 25% but RS 5 usually nets me something in the range of 15k damage where as a grave digger at that point is hitting 24k+ RS5 is so lacking in raw power in its lower values in pve imo.

    Really? I am pretty sure I had gravedigger numbers on RS5 below 50%/25%. Dunno then. I use it anyways for the chill applicaiton

    in group events etc most of the time a foe is perma chilled so you dont have to worry about losing damage from lack of chill but its just the base damage of RS5 is not that high rather than being really high its kind of average to below average and relies too much on the hp values to make up for it. like i said on bosses i often end up landing RS5 when the boss is below 25% for about 15k some times higgher but almost never more than 20k grave digger at the same hp value averages 24k or higher per swing. RS4 is quick but you can land 2 grave diggers in the time it takes to complete the whole sequence of RS 4 and generally 2 grave diggers is still dps more than a single soul spiral. This is the problem with gd usually doing anything other than gd under 50% is a dps loss and thats what people are not happy about. I usually save my RS4 as filler in the event i miss a grave digger due to a random blind or the enemy suddenly moving causing it to miss.

    imo you will can prob get more or the same damage using shroud if you just auto attack. The full chain completes in just a little over the time it takes to complete 1 grave digger and the damage boost to the 2nd and 3rd parts of the chain make it competitive damage to grave digger if you look at the total of all the damage combined between the 3 hits but like i said the full chain does take a whole 0.25 seconds longer to complete.

    Even if the damage was the same its still an issue because shroud should feel stronger than you standard weapon skills and even then you are locked into the auto attack only.

    I still think the best solution would just be to give a unique damage buff upon landing grave digger on a foe under 50% to last duration maybe slightly longer than the duration of grave diggers cooldown. And remove the auto reset. This way you have to use it but you are not locked into spamming it. By using other skills your damage wont be kitten because you are not spamming 1 skill.

  • Kalendraf.9521Kalendraf.9521 Member ✭✭✭

    @Aetatis.5418 said:

    @Kalendraf.9521 said:
    I'd like to see DS skill 3 Infusing Terror reworked. I dislike it's either/or behavior with Terrify. Instead of having to end it early to get the fear effect, I'd prefer if the fear was integrated with the skill directly and also improved. I'd also like to see the Damage reductions improved to be more in line with protection. For example:

    Infusing Terror - Shroud yourself with dark armor that grants stability, reduces incoming damage and pulses fear.

    • Damage Reduced: 33%
    • Condition Damage Reduced: 33%
    • Stability (3 stacks) (6s): Cannot be knocked down, pushed back, pulled, launched, stunned, dazed, floated, sunk, feared or taunted.
    • Fear (1s) (3 pulses at 2 second intervals): Involuntary retreat; unable to act; stacks duration
    • Duration: 6s
    • Radius: 360

    The pulsing fear and impoved DR would make it a much more reliable "oh kitten" button, plus the extra fear pulses would improve it slightly for the purpose of using it as a CC option against breakbars in PvE.

    technically ... a pulsing fear would make the "armor" effect useless, no?

    Fear has short range, so it would only affect nearby attackers. The damage reduction is to help protect vs. ranged

    like if it is meant to hit and cc somebody attacking you, there is no need for that armor increase (except for longrange professions like ranger or heavy outnumbered... or perma stab).

    I'm thinking of it's uses in PvE where it's common to face groups of mobs with different attack ranges simultaneously, and sometimes you just need to hit the panic button to break free. In it's current state, DS3 its only partially effective as a break-away type skill, but adding the fear would help to create the initial separation needed to clear a path from the closest mobs.

    pulsing fear is too strong anyway - imo. a single (aoe) fear on pressing the skill would be reliable (and strong, due to instant) enough already, compared to the way it works at the moment.

    I'm looking at this as something that should kept up while moving, allowing the "Terrifying" reaper to clear a path through the mobs as they move. Maybe add a caveat to the fear that additional pulses occur only while moving?

    Proud to be a member of the Charter Vanguard [CV] on the Henge of Denravi

  • Kalendraf.9521Kalendraf.9521 Member ✭✭✭

    @Pansoul.9436 said:

    @Kalendraf.9521 said:
    I'd like to see DS skill 3 Infusing Terror reworked. I dislike it's either/or behavior with Terrify. Instead of having to end it early to get the fear effect, I'd prefer if the fear was integrated with the skill directly and also improved. I'd also like to see the Damage reductions improved to be more in line with protection. For example:

    Infusing Terror - Shroud yourself with dark armor that grants stability, reduces incoming damage and pulses fear.

    • Damage Reduced: 33%
    • Condition Damage Reduced: 33%
    • Stability (3 stacks) (6s): Cannot be knocked down, pushed back, pulled, launched, stunned, dazed, floated, sunk, feared or taunted.
    • Fear (1s) (3 pulses at 2 second intervals): Involuntary retreat; unable to act; stacks duration
    • Duration: 6s
    • Radius: 360

    The pulsing fear and impoved DR would make it a much more reliable "oh kitten" button, plus the extra fear pulses would improve it slightly for the purpose of using it as a CC option against breakbars in PvE.

    What about instead reduce damage and condi damage, it reduce LF degen to 1% while it active? stab is still in effect.

    I like that idea. Keying on life force impact directly might be a better approach for this type of skill.

    Proud to be a member of the Charter Vanguard [CV] on the Henge of Denravi

  • Aetatis.5418Aetatis.5418 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 14, 2018

    @Kalendraf.9521 said:

    @Aetatis.5418 said:

    @Kalendraf.9521 said:
    I'd like to see DS skill 3 Infusing Terror reworked. I dislike it's either/or behavior with Terrify. Instead of having to end it early to get the fear effect, I'd prefer if the fear was integrated with the skill directly and also improved. I'd also like to see the Damage reductions improved to be more in line with protection. For example:

    Infusing Terror - Shroud yourself with dark armor that grants stability, reduces incoming damage and pulses fear.

    • Damage Reduced: 33%
    • Condition Damage Reduced: 33%
    • Stability (3 stacks) (6s): Cannot be knocked down, pushed back, pulled, launched, stunned, dazed, floated, sunk, feared or taunted.
    • Fear (1s) (3 pulses at 2 second intervals): Involuntary retreat; unable to act; stacks duration
    • Duration: 6s
    • Radius: 360

    The pulsing fear and impoved DR would make it a much more reliable "oh kitten" button, plus the extra fear pulses would improve it slightly for the purpose of using it as a CC option against breakbars in PvE.

    technically ... a pulsing fear would make the "armor" effect useless, no?

    Fear has short range, so it would only affect nearby attackers. The damage reduction is to help protect vs. ranged

    like if it is meant to hit and cc somebody attacking you, there is no need for that armor increase (except for longrange professions like ranger or heavy outnumbered... or perma stab).

    I'm thinking of it's uses in PvE where it's common to face groups of mobs with different attack ranges simultaneously, and sometimes you just need to hit the panic button to break free. In it's current state, DS3 its only partially effective as a break-away type skill, but adding the fear would help to create the initial separation needed to clear a path from the closest mobs.

    pulsing fear is too strong anyway - imo. a single (aoe) fear on pressing the skill would be reliable (and strong, due to instant) enough already, compared to the way it works at the moment.

    I'm looking at this as something that should kept up while moving, allowing the "Terrifying" reaper to clear a path through the mobs as they move. Maybe add a caveat to the fear that additional pulses occur only while moving?

    dmg reduction against ranged. i covered that. would make the armor effect still less relevant.

    okay use it in pve moments, in which you are overwhelmed. at the cost of any other mode of the game. since mechanics are not split - only numbers differ, hence the pulsing would be very bad.
    ofc i can see what your idea is. but think about it further:
    in group content you absolutely dont want mobs to spread, you want them to come close, to control them and aoe them.
    even in solo content a pulsing fear will lead to issues such as "you clear the path through mobs" BUT you won't hit a thing with damage, which you ultimatively want to do, to erase the threat. look at it like the revenant staff 5... without the dmg.

    the only thing it would be good for is breakbars and skipping 1-2 spawns in fractals/dungeons or 1-2 specific events in which you have an advantage to skip mobs, when you can't mount, otherwise open world is already pretty much covered by mounts. i personally can not see any real good "use" (that cant be done already) besides the thought of a "terryfying movie reaper" (which is something i enjoy watching).

  • Kalendraf.9521Kalendraf.9521 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 14, 2018

    So maybe swap the fear for some other ability? For my playstyle in PvE I only see two practical uses for ever activating the DS3's second ability. 90% of the time I'm using it to try to deal extra breakbar damage on a boss. The other 10% is when I am getting overwhelmed and need to get some distance. For the former, it wouldn't even need to be fear - just some kind of CC that helps against the breakbar. For the latter, maybe Pansoul's suggestion limit to LF degen would help address the issue somewhat.

    Proud to be a member of the Charter Vanguard [CV] on the Henge of Denravi

  • Zietlogik.6208Zietlogik.6208 Member ✭✭✭

    Reduce Reaper shroud CD by 2-3 seconds, that's all I want :(

  • Lahmia.2193Lahmia.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zietlogik.6208 said:
    Reduce Reaper shroud CD by 2-3 seconds, that's all I want :(

    They could easily latch it onto Shroud Knight. It already has the increased 5% degeneration attached to it.

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death."

  • DeceiverX.8361DeceiverX.8361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lahmia.2193 said:

    @Zietlogik.6208 said:
    Reduce Reaper shroud CD by 2-3 seconds, that's all I want :(

    They could easily latch it onto Shroud Knight. It already has the increased 5% degeneration attached to it.

    Something I've been asking for for a long time.

    Solves the SR/SoS "problem" and allows reaper to be so much more capable in general.

    You sure that Sniper idea is as good as you thought it was gonna be?
    Because I think my original idea is better.

  • DISCLAIMER:

    This isn't a suggestion by any means for a fix, I figured I should upload my take on the build/rotation so that possible errors could be identified and to point out obvious issues with Reaper in general.

    Power Reaper has a fairly complex rotation, comprised of four different rotations:

    • Above 50% - Out of Shroud
    • Below 50% - Out of Shroud
    • Above 50% - In Shroud
    • Below 50% - In Shroud

    Because of this, it's very important to keep track of where you are in your rotation and what stage of your rotation you're in:

    • ^50% - Out of Shroud:
    • Burst Rotation:
    1. Grasping Darkness
    2. Nightfall
    3. Death Spiral
    4. Gravedigger
    5. Well of Suffering (as soon as it's off CD)
    6. Enter Shroud
    • Sustained Rotation:
    1. Gravedigger
    2. Death Spiral
    3. Swap Weapons
    4. Ghastly Claws
    5. Reaper's Touch
    6. Rending Claws until shroud is off CD
    7. Enter Shroud
    8. Ghastly Claws
    9. Reaper's Touch
    10. Swap Weapons
      Repeat steps 1 through 16 until the health of the target reaches 50%

    NOTE: Pay close attention to the target's health and be ready to start the below 50% rotation. If the target reaches 50% before you're ready to begin your v50% rotation, finish whatever stage of the ^50% rotation you're in then transition to the v50% rotation.

    • v50% - Out of Shroud:
    1. Gravedigger until something comes off CD
    2. Grasping Darkness (if off CD)
    3. Nightfall (if off CD)
    4. Death Spiral (if off CD)
    5. Well of Suffering (if off CD)
    6. Enter Shroud (if off CD)
    7. Repeat all steps until the target is dead

    There are actually 5 separate Shroud rotations, 3 above 50% and 2 below 50%:

    • ^50% - In Shroud:
    • Rotation 1:
    1. Soul Spiral
    2. Death's Charge
    3. Auto Chain x2
    4. Death's Charge
    5. Exit Shroud
    • Rotation 2:
    1. Death's Charge
    2. Auto Chain
    3. Soul Spiral
    4. Death's Charge
    5. Exit Shroud
    • Rotation 3:
    1. Death's Charge
    2. Auto Chain x2
    3. Death's Charge
    4. Exit Shroud
    • Repeat all 3 rotations until 50%

    • v50% - In Shroud:

    • Rotation 1:
    1. Soul Spiral
    2. Death's Charge
    3. Exit Shroud
    • Rotation 2:
    1. Death's Charge
    2. Exit Shroud
    • Repeat all rotations until the target is dead

    The reason why this is so complex is because of one trait... Strength of Undeath:

    • "Strength of Undeath: Maximum life force is increased. Deal more damage when above the life-force threshold."
    • Life Force is increased by 15% and damage while above 50% LF is increased by 5%.

    You might think that 5% isn't a whole lot but you'd be wrong especially once you reach 50% health of your target and, "Close to Death", kicks in so we have to manage our LF and use it appropriately meaning entering and exiting Reaper's Shroud extremely often.

    Personally, I like having such a complex rotation like this because it makes the class into an, "Easy to learn; Difficult to master", kind of class which I find fun. Hopefully this helps someone and if anyone has any comments or criticisms please let me know. :D

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 17, 2018

    @cyndelaq.7148 said:

    DISCLAIMER:

    This isn't a suggestion by any means for a fix, I figured I should upload my take on the build/rotation so that possible errors could be identified and to point out obvious issues with Reaper in general.

    Power Reaper has a fairly complex rotation, comprised of four different rotations:

    • Above 50% - Out of Shroud
    • Below 50% - Out of Shroud
    • Above 50% - In Shroud
    • Below 50% - In Shroud

    Because of this, it's very important to keep track of where you are in your rotation and what stage of your rotation you're in:

    • ^50% - Out of Shroud:
    • Burst Rotation:
    1. Grasping Darkness
    2. Nightfall
    3. Death Spiral
    4. Gravedigger
    5. Well of Suffering (as soon as it's off CD)
    6. Enter Shroud
    • Sustained Rotation:
    1. Gravedigger
    2. Death Spiral
    3. Swap Weapons
    4. Ghastly Claws
    5. Reaper's Touch
    6. Rending Claws until shroud is off CD
    7. Enter Shroud
    8. Ghastly Claws
    9. Reaper's Touch
    10. Swap Weapons
      Repeat steps 1 through 16 until the health of the target reaches 50%

    NOTE: Pay close attention to the target's health and be ready to start the below 50% rotation. If the target reaches 50% before you're ready to begin your v50% rotation, finish whatever stage of the ^50% rotation you're in then transition to the v50% rotation.

    • v50% - Out of Shroud:
    1. Gravedigger until something comes off CD
    2. Grasping Darkness (if off CD)
    3. Nightfall (if off CD)
    4. Death Spiral (if off CD)
    5. Well of Suffering (if off CD)
    6. Enter Shroud (if off CD)
    7. Repeat all steps until the target is dead

    There are actually 5 separate Shroud rotations, 3 above 50% and 2 below 50%:

    • ^50% - In Shroud:
    • Rotation 1:
    1. Soul Spiral
    2. Death's Charge
    3. Auto Chain x2
    4. Death's Charge
    5. Exit Shroud
    • Rotation 2:
    1. Death's Charge
    2. Auto Chain
    3. Soul Spiral
    4. Death's Charge
    5. Exit Shroud
    • Rotation 3:
    1. Death's Charge
    2. Auto Chain x2
    3. Death's Charge
    4. Exit Shroud
    • Repeat all 3 rotations until 50%

    • v50% - In Shroud:

    • Rotation 1:
    1. Soul Spiral
    2. Death's Charge
    3. Exit Shroud
    • Rotation 2:
    1. Death's Charge
    2. Exit Shroud
    • Repeat all rotations until the target is dead

    The reason why this is so complex is because of one trait... Strength of Undeath:

    • "Strength of Undeath: Maximum life force is increased. Deal more damage when above the life-force threshold."
    • Life Force is increased by 15% and damage while above 50% LF is increased by 5%.

    You might think that 5% isn't a whole lot but you'd be wrong especially once you reach 50% health of your target and, "Close to Death", kicks in so we have to manage our LF and use it appropriately meaning entering and exiting Reaper's Shroud extremely often.

    Personally, I like having such a complex rotation like this because it makes the class into an, "Easy to learn; Difficult to master", kind of class which I find fun. Hopefully this helps someone and if anyone has any comments or criticisms please let me know. :D

    The problem while using focus:

    It's not a good weapon.

    Ok to be more precise:
    Horn 5 does more dmg than focus 4.

    Now people will tell me: noooo the tooltip is much higher.
    Yeah that might be true, but if you are doing a benchmark with focus, you have to gather 9 more people, to stand near the golem, cause that's how real boss encounters work.

    If you are alone, you get more procs out of focus 4 than you will while being in a group. The problem here is that it also bounces between allies and then does no dmg, or only one hit to the boss.

    Next is:
    Meta would be bloodmagic, spite, reaper. As it does same DPS than soulreaping variant but also buffs party dmg a bit.

    So you don't have the 5% dmg boost from soulreaping.
    And deaths charge definetly shouldn't be in the rotation. It does less dmg than the auto attack chain.

    The rotation below 50% looks like this:
    GS
    2,2,2,2,2,2,2.....
    Sometimes it can be worth using the well of suffering and grasping darkness + nightfall, but most of the times its a dmg loss.

    Complete rotation:
    Above 50%:

    Gs3
    Gs2
    Autoattackchains
    Gs2
    Gs5
    And to cancel the aftercast use gs4 directly after gs5

    Weaponswap

    Axe2
    Horn 5
    Well of suffering

    Shroud

    RS4
    Auto till weaponswap is ready

    Out of shroud axe2

    Weaponswap

    Begin from start

    And like I said, below 50% it's just
    Gs2 spam

  • I might be a total noob, but After doing a power reaper build, when ppl were talking that power does no dps at all, I was top 3 raid/fractal single target dps according to DPS meter, measured only on single target. I am curious whether people think pNecro is weak, because they can't measure their dps properly, or because reaper has a demanding rotation, and they would like to play GW like paladin in WoW(smash two buttons and do numbers) I am pretty happy that my rotation requires using few utility skills before getting in melee range, then using few weapon skills, shround, small shroud rotation(because power reaper should not stay in shroud longer than shroud 4 skill+MAX 6 speeded auto attacks applying dhuumfire) then swap back to axe and focus, etc etc... I'm sorry but I am not buying that necro is weak in power as a reaper - never played scourge so can't say anything about it. Just learn the rotation and stop thinking that Shroud is all that makes reaper a reaper. I tried once to go full shroud duration, 80% crit chance with maxed crit dmg to just stay in shroud and pop those numbers - it's not working. Mixed rotation is the key guys.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Heimdallr.5421 said:
    I might be a total noob, but After doing a power reaper build, when ppl were talking that power does no dps at all, I was top 3 raid/fractal single target dps according to DPS meter, measured only on single target. I am curious whether people think pNecro is weak, because they can't measure their dps properly, or because reaper has a demanding rotation, and they would like to play GW like paladin in WoW(smash two buttons and do numbers) I am pretty happy that my rotation requires using few utility skills before getting in melee range, then using few weapon skills, shround, small shroud rotation(because power reaper should not stay in shroud longer than shroud 4 skill+MAX 6 speeded auto attacks applying dhuumfire) then swap back to axe and focus, etc etc... I'm sorry but I am not buying that necro is weak in power as a reaper - never played scourge so can't say anything about it. Just learn the rotation and stop thinking that Shroud is all that makes reaper a reaper. I tried once to go full shroud duration, 80% crit chance with maxed crit dmg to just stay in shroud and pop those numbers - it's not working. Mixed rotation is the key guys.

    To put it simply it's the ceiling of the p Reaper's dps that is low, while other profession's dps ceiling is 10 to 20% higher on average. You know, other professions also have safer builds that still deal correct damage (slightly above whatever the necromancer can do) but they wouldn't even consider using such build. They prefer to try hard and screw their own dps because the potential dps of their build is higher.

    So the issue is not that you aren't able to perform well in an average group, but that your profession have less room to perform better than other professions have.

  • Heimdallr.5421Heimdallr.5421 Member ✭✭
    edited August 19, 2018

    https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Reaper_-_Power_DPS try rotation from here, good for start, I just spent lots of time on golem to improve that one, but you need to do the same and see what can be upgraded and find out where reaper power lies;]

    Tip - Use signet of spite instead of summoning shadow fiend, and use healing minion instead of well of blood. It works better for me because I do not use blood - blood works with minions as the sucking damage from aura and minion drain counts as additional damage, that's what makes it strong, however...I'm a fan of blood only for PVP.
    Use it, or try with Spite as I did going traits. when you pop up shroud use 4, then allow it to do 6 auto attacks to get some nasty dmg with Dhuum's fire and keep in mind that you deal full dmg when your HP is above 90%(superior rune of schoolar) which means above 90% of shroud, next DPS drop is below 50% hp(shroud, but I don't remember what caused that I'm not on reaper currently) so you can't stay longer and you need to do the rotation again with both weapons. You will get to it:D

    Difference between Focus and Warhorn is that Focus does not require you to stand near boss to use it(and well, in pve you can't just stand in single place and hit boss, you need to be in move to avoid stuff , dodge, do something etc - Focus 4th will be available so you bring additional dmg while being away, with Warhorn you can't) . Next thing is cooldown - it's lower than Warhorn skill, which allows you to use it more often

  • @Heimdallr.5421 I'm not trying to be rude when I say this, but did you even look at the build guide I posted earlier? I even linked a video of me performing the rotation.

    The problem, like @Dadnir.5038 stated, isn't that we can't do decent numbers, it's that our DPS ceiling itself is low. I can do anywhere from 5k to 10k more DPS on my Power Holosmith than I can on my power Reaper.

  • Methuselah.4376Methuselah.4376 Member ✭✭✭

    @Heimdallr.5421 said:
    I might be a total noob, but After doing a power reaper build, when ppl were talking that power does no dps at all, I was top 3 raid/fractal single target dps according to DPS meter, measured only on single target. I am curious whether people think pNecro is weak, because they can't measure their dps properly, or because reaper has a demanding rotation, and they would like to play GW like paladin in WoW(smash two buttons and do numbers) I am pretty happy that my rotation requires using few utility skills before getting in melee range, then using few weapon skills, shround, small shroud rotation(because power reaper should not stay in shroud longer than shroud 4 skill+MAX 6 speeded auto attacks applying dhuumfire) then swap back to axe and focus, etc etc... I'm sorry but I am not buying that necro is weak in power as a reaper - never played scourge so can't say anything about it. Just learn the rotation and stop thinking that Shroud is all that makes reaper a reaper. I tried once to go full shroud duration, 80% crit chance with maxed crit dmg to just stay in shroud and pop those numbers - it's not working. Mixed rotation is the key guys.

    A good power reaper will out dps every other profession if the other professions are being played be players with mediocre skill levels. Not saying anything new there as that is always the case. However, a good power deadeye, weaver or holosmith will out dps a good power reaper, often by quite a margin. What tends to work in the reaper's favour is the simplicity of the rotation.

  • Sorry, didn't read whole, I just checked a part that was looking different... and thought it's completely different thing...because mostly it is.

    Death charge is a large dps loss in my opinion - in the time your character is performing it, you could do a full auto attack shroud, that deals neat dmg+applies dhuumsfire.

    I just have geared myself with a berserker Exotics to do a casual test in them, Ran a casual rotation without any buffs.
    Screen https://ibb.co/jwvOkz

    Then I ran the same and as You can see I took buffs on myself(except for weapon buffs and food)
    Screen https://ibb.co/e2wUQz

    And with Minion
    Screen https://ibb.co/mDG7Ce

    Even though I made up to 24k it sounds fine to me as It was an exotic test, unless something is not quite right and other classes do way more in exo+without/with buffs...but didn't see any yet using ARC, but perhaps I didn't raid enough.

    Rotation I used:
    1.Blood is power
    2. Well of Suffering
    3. Blood is power
    4. Grasping Darkness
    5. Nightfall
    6. Death Spiral
    7. Shroud - if mob didn't get chill - Infusing Terror, use it again to apply chill. If Grasping darkness still lasts go for Soul Spiral
    8. 2x Auto Attack chain
    9. Ghastly Claws
    10. Reaper's touch
    11. Auto attack
    12. Ghastly claws
    13. CD from Shroud is off so pop it and go for Infusing Terror to apply chill
    14. 2x Auto Attack chain
    15. shroud 4
    16. Repeat till he dies. Or spam Gravedigger+apply well of suffering+Nightfall+Soul Spiral and back to gravedigger.

  • @Heimdallr.5421

    So. The first thing I noticed is that you're using literally every single buff. In my test, I only used, "realistic", buffs and pulled off the same DPS as you. With full buffs, I pull ahead in DPS by about 2k.

    The second thing I noticed is that you were actually using the Shadow Fiend's active. It's actually a DPS loss to do so as the Shadow Fiend attacks rather quickly compared to all other minions and deals around 1k per attack.

    And lastly. The reason why you don't use BIP is because in most raid, and even Fractal, settings you'll have a Druid with you and they provide a constant 25 stacks of might without the negatives of BIP.

  • that's why I made 3 tests, with all buffs without buffs and with minion, and yes I used that skill...never used minion before haha. As to Blood is Power I used my casual fractal build here, it builds up bleed dmg but yes, for raids it's useless. The question is - How much other classes outdps this amount?

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