Change downed skills for Warrior

[Menzo.2185]

I agree with some above suggestions and Anet's need to do something with the warrior downed skills. Yes, they suck !!!!

[coro.3176]

I'd say: Vengeance gets 100% (or something higher than it currently is) rally chance.(exception: in WvW it only procs on other players or lord NPCs, not guards or normal mobs - this is just to keep camp fights balanced)

@InsaneQR.7412 said:I would only change this:Throw hammer unblockable.

Eh.. I don't think this makes sense. No other classes have unblockable downed skills. I don't see why throw hammer should be special.

If you couldnt kill a target you go downstate with quarter of your health you had before using vengeance. The vengeance trait should have this effect: When going downstate vengeance is automatically available, when you leave vengeance you have a higher healthpoool. Dunno if this should get an ICD but ofc vengeance only recharges if you would go down normally and not with vengeance active.

Going back down after using vengeance would be pretty OP. You have to die if you fail to kill something. The whole point of the skill is to be an all-in gamble to get a kill or die trying. If you don't die afterward, people will just use it to escape somewhere safe (like ele's mist form) and that's not how Warrior is supposed to be played.

[InsaneQR.7412]

@coro.3176 said:I'd say: Vengeance gets 100% (or something higher than it currently is) rally chance.(exception: in WvW it only procs on other players or lord NPCs, not guards or normal mobs - this is just to keep camp fights balanced)

@InsaneQR.7412 said:I would only change this:Throw hammer unblockable.

Eh.. I don't think this makes sense. No other classes have unblockable downed skills. I don't see why throw hammer should be special.

Because its a single target knockdown and a projectile, unrefkectable is nit a thing so either unblockable or no projectile.

If you couldnt kill a target you go downstate with quarter of your health you had before using vengeance. The vengeance trait should have this effect: When going downstate vengeance is automatically available, when you leave vengeance you have a higher healthpoool. Dunno if this should get an ICD but ofc vengeance only recharges if you would go down normally and not with vengeance active.

Going back down after using vengeance would be pretty OP. You have to die if you fail to kill something. The whole point of the skill is to be an all-in gamble to get a kill or die trying. If you don't die afterward, people will just use it to escape somewhere safe (like ele's mist form) and that's not how Warrior is supposed to be played.

You go down with a quarter if the health that was keft before entering vengeance. If you have half health when entering it would be an eigthth when leaving. And so on and so forth. With the trait it could be half or something.Xould also be splitted between PvE and PvP IMO. Would make sense, even if this ia also a rarity in the game (splitted down state)

[coro.3176]

@InsaneQR.7412 said:

@coro.3176 said:I'd say: Vengeance gets 100% (or something higher than it currently is) rally chance.(exception: in WvW it only procs on other players or lord NPCs, not guards or normal mobs - this is just to keep camp fights balanced)

@InsaneQR.7412 said:I would only change this:Throw hammer unblockable.

Eh.. I don't think this makes sense. No other classes have unblockable downed skills. I don't see why throw hammer should be special.

Because its a single target knockdown and a projectile, unrefkectable is nit a thing so either unblockable or no projectile.

Mm. yeah, but the necro downed fear isn't unblockable. Neither is the rev push. Neither is the engi pull (and that's a projectile too).

If you couldnt kill a target you go downstate with quarter of your health you had before using vengeance. The vengeance trait should have this effect: When going downstate vengeance is automatically available, when you leave vengeance you have a higher healthpoool. Dunno if this should get an ICD but ofc vengeance only recharges if you would go down normally and not with vengeance active.

Going back down after using vengeance would be pretty OP. You have to die if you fail to kill something. The whole point of the skill is to be an all-in gamble to get a kill or die trying. If you don't die afterward, people will just use it to escape somewhere safe (like ele's mist form) and that's not how Warrior is supposed to be played.

You go down with a quarter if the health that was keft before entering vengeance. If you have half health when entering it would be an eigthth when leaving. And so on and so forth. With the trait it could be half or something.Xould also be splitted between PvE and PvP IMO. Would make sense, even if this ia also a rarity in the game (splitted down state)

Yeah this is still too good. It basically gives Warrior the option to immediately pop vengeance and use it to run to safety, like an ele in mist form or a thief downed teleport. BUT they also have the opportunity to use it offensively to try to finish a kill. If they are fast, they could even pop it, do some damage, then also run to safety. The difference is that ele and thief are very squishy and it was deemed necessary to give them escapes tied to their down state. Warrior on the other hand, is tanky and is not supposed to be able to YOLO in, deal damage, go down, then vengeance out just to be picked up by their teammates.

[InsaneQR.7412]

@coro.3176 said:

@InsaneQR.7412 said:

@coro.3176 said:I'd say: Vengeance gets 100% (or something higher than it currently is) rally chance.(exception: in WvW it only procs on other players or lord NPCs, not guards or normal mobs - this is just to keep camp fights balanced)

@InsaneQR.7412 said:I would only change this:Throw hammer unblockable.

Eh.. I don't think this makes sense. No other classes have unblockable downed skills. I don't see why throw hammer should be special.

Because its a single target knockdown and a projectile, unrefkectable is nit a thing so either unblockable or no projectile.

Mm. yeah, but the necro downed fear isn't unblockable. Neither is the rev push. Neither is the engi pull (and that's a projectile too).

If you couldnt kill a target you go downstate with quarter of your health you had before using vengeance. The vengeance trait should have this effect: When going downstate vengeance is automatically available, when you leave vengeance you have a higher healthpoool. Dunno if this should get an ICD but ofc vengeance only recharges if you would go down normally and not with vengeance active.

Going back down after using vengeance would be pretty OP. You have to die if you fail to kill something. The whole point of the skill is to be an all-in gamble to get a kill or die trying. If you don't die afterward, people will just use it to escape somewhere safe (like ele's mist form) and that's not how Warrior is supposed to be played.

You go down with a quarter if the health that was keft before entering vengeance. If you have half health when entering it would be an eigthth when leaving. And so on and so forth. With the trait it could be half or something.Xould also be splitted between PvE and PvP IMO. Would make sense, even if this ia also a rarity in the game (splitted down state)

Yeah this is still too good. It basically gives Warrior the option to immediately pop vengeance and use it to run to safety, like an ele in mist form or a thief downed teleport. BUT they also have the opportunity to use it offensively to try to finish a kill. If they are fast, they could even pop it, do some damage, then also run to safety. The difference is that ele and thief are very squishy and it was deemed necessary to give them escapes tied to their down state. Warrior on the other hand, is tanky and is not supposed to be able to YOLO in, deal damage, go down, then vengeance out just to be picked up by their teammates.

Well the idea of instant recharge is maybe a bit over the top, but it should atleast give 100% revival chance when killing something. Would be cool if it would "mark" your target that killed you and you have to kill it to survive. Bit that would be a nightmare to programm i assume.

[RedShark.9548]

@coro.3176 said:

@InsaneQR.7412 said:

@coro.3176 said:I'd say: Vengeance gets 100% (or something higher than it currently is) rally chance.(exception: in WvW it only procs on other players or lord NPCs, not guards or normal mobs - this is just to keep camp fights balanced)

@InsaneQR.7412 said:I would only change this:Throw hammer unblockable.

Eh.. I don't think this makes sense. No other classes have unblockable downed skills. I don't see why throw hammer should be special.

Because its a single target knockdown and a projectile, unrefkectable is nit a thing so either unblockable or no projectile.

Mm. yeah, but the necro downed fear isn't unblockable. Neither is the rev push. Neither is the engi pull (and that's a projectile too).

If you couldnt kill a target you go downstate with quarter of your health you had before using vengeance. The vengeance trait should have this effect: When going downstate vengeance is automatically available, when you leave vengeance you have a higher healthpoool. Dunno if this should get an ICD but ofc vengeance only recharges if you would go down normally and not with vengeance active.

Going back down after using vengeance would be pretty OP. You have to die if you fail to kill something. The whole point of the skill is to be an all-in gamble to get a kill or die trying. If you don't die afterward, people will just use it to escape somewhere safe (like ele's mist form) and that's not how Warrior is supposed to be played.

You go down with a quarter if the health that was keft before entering vengeance. If you have half health when entering it would be an eigthth when leaving. And so on and so forth. With the trait it could be half or something.Xould also be splitted between PvE and PvP IMO. Would make sense, even if this ia also a rarity in the game (splitted down state)

Yeah this is still too good. It basically gives Warrior the option to immediately pop vengeance and use it to run to safety, like an ele in mist form or a thief downed teleport. BUT they also have the opportunity to use it offensively to try to finish a kill. If they are fast, they could even pop it, do some damage, then also run to safety. The difference is that ele and thief are very squishy and it was deemed necessary to give them escapes tied to their down state. Warrior on the other hand, is tanky and is not supposed to be able to YOLO in, deal damage, go down, then vengeance out just to be picked up by their teammates.

necro fear is aoe, and no projectile, so cant be reflected, its superior to hammer by alotengi pull is the second down skill i believe, the first interrupt is better than hammer aswellwith warri hammer minions or pets can stand in front and you wont be able to do stuff

tbh even the autohit is absolute trash compared to others, thief auto bounces and does alot pf dmg, necro gains health while using itwarri is slow as hell, is a projectile and has no sideeffect at all, could atleast give weakness because you hit their head or something so cleave wouldnt be as strong

[trianglecubed.3750]

I say change vengeance as a whole so that you get up to fight for a few seconds then you're downed again or just replace it with something that lets you ignore damage for a short period of time and bandage or just.. anything useful that's not vengeance. If you leave it in and make it so you just fight for a bit before going downed again you can finish off the person/mob in the time you have vengeance then you can safely bandage yourself afterwards but if you can't then they can just finish you off or, maybe, that'd have given you enough of an edge to finish them in down and, of course, it'd have a fairly large CD. Regardless, atm vengeance is essentially a worthless skill. As it is it's like "Whoopdi-doo. You killed the mob/mobs that downed you but you're gonna die anyway because 25% is a F." Or if you're in pvp you just have people run away from you and move onto their next objective as they run down the timer so either way you're dead because the skill never procs. I've been playing since release and in that time the times I've used vengeance I can count the number of times it actually procced on one hand, three. Three times. Every other time I've used it I die anyway, even if I end up killing off five+ mobs. It's just too low of a chance to be even remotely useful, even 50% is still a failing grade. You wouldn't leave your actual life up to the flip of a coin? How about a four-sided die where you have to get a 4 to live? No? So why is that exactly what we're doing here?

[Oglaf.1074]

They really need to up the Vengeance chance against trash mobs and make it so that any Veteran and above kill has 100% success rate.

[RUNICBLACK.7630]

Try some of the other classes down states . You pointed out some of the few that seem to be decent , there many other classes that really stink, the Mesmers for instance that seems to always teleport into the combat instead of away from it and speaking as someone who main's a Guardian and uses my Warrior for all of my Fractals(tier 1to 4) Vengeance has bailed me out alot more times than the Guardian's Symbol downed skill.

[Rhadament.3752]

Imo they should just redo vengance, to simpler version:

you are back 100% hp. Done

basic attack:teleport to target slash 8 times, drain hp with every hit.

hammer:Aoe wave blast that drains HP and reset Vengance timer.

There you go. Perfectly functional.

[Skill.3260]

They should atleast change Vengeance to something else.. This "something else" should force enemies to attack you after you use it, instead of running and avoiding you. Maybe when you use vengeance, your max health change to 10,000 and if you have majority of your health remaining at end of Vengeance, you rally. (Enemy gets 20secs to reduce your health down to below 5,000, healing effectiveness could be halved during vengeance to give warriors with high regen less of a chance to survive.)

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

Warrior downstate is fine. First off no other profession gets a shot at fully getting up and fighting your way through death with all normal skill available without getting ressed prior. So obviously skills 1 & 2 will be weak as majority of his power budget went into vengeance.

Also another thing to keep in mind is that he is a soldier profession, and is not supposed to go down at all. Especially with spellbreaker e-spec available. Necro has strong downstate, because he is designed to eat his damage instead of turning it into buch of zeroes and cannot avoid death when focused. Being downed and fighthing back up from it is part of the profession's design. Warrior is not designed to bite the dust. If you let your warrior get downed, that's on you buddy, don't blame the downstate for it.

If anything i would say ranger has disgustingly strong downstate (dunno why as he is not a super hard or super squishy profession), while guardian has suprisingly weak one...

[Oglaf.1074]

The problem with Vengeance is that it just ain’t worth it. The revive chance is far too low. Especially since just staying on you butt has 100% chance when tossing rocks.

[Aigleborgne.2981]

One possible fix would to be downed again instead of defeated.In that case, vengeance would be good.

[Oglaf.1074]

@Aigleborgne.2981 said:One possible fix would to be downed again instead of defeated.In that case, vengeance would be good.

Or splitting it in PvE/PvP which a much higher revive chance in PvE. It sorta serves it’s purpose in PvP well enough.

[Fungo Maligno.4081]

I think it would be better if all classes had the same downed skill set

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Why necro a 4yr dead thread? These are not the necro forums.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

On 5/25/2023 at 11:26 AM, Fungo Maligno.4081 said:

I think it would be better if all classes had the same downed skill set

God how I love it. 

Necros years old thread. 

Doesn't add anything meaningful. 

Just why?