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@Abelisk.4527 said:

@Abelisk.4527 said:Although I don't have a screencap, I hit 30k with Vault in the Free For All area.

Calling bs on this, also in unrelated news I hit 90k with mesmer autos once I just don't have a screenshot

It was on a zerk ele but I am not lying.

I will screencap it next time.

I got you buddy! https://imgur.com/a/6CDBfhWThis was done in an unranked match of sPvP. I don't remember what kind of Mesmer it was, I think they were power. They died too fast.

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@Kawloon Fuathach.3807 said:

@Abelisk.4527 said:Although I don't have a screencap, I hit 30k with Vault in the Free For All area.

Calling bs on this, also in unrelated news I hit 90k with mesmer autos once I just don't have a screenshot

It was on a zerk ele but I am not lying.

I will screencap it next time.

I got you buddy!
This was done in an unranked match of sPvP. I don't remember what kind of Mesmer it was, I think they were power. They died too fast.

HVBBgPV.jpg

Interesting how we're both using the same oneshot build and yet yours is doing 30k while mine is doing 15.5k, given that I activated bounding dodger, the trap, both signets, was attacking from behind and had over 90% health on myself and the golem (full) which accounts for every bonus you can possibly achieve, and the target is vulnerability stacked.

The trap was activated on the golem by killing it, placing the trap, and waiting for it to trigger when the golem respawns.

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@Legatus.3608 said:

@Abelisk.4527 said:Although I don't have a screencap, I hit 30k with Vault in the Free For All area.

Calling bs on this, also in unrelated news I hit 90k with mesmer autos once I just don't have a screenshot

It was on a zerk ele but I am not lying.

I will screencap it next time.

I got you buddy!
This was done in an unranked match of sPvP. I don't remember what kind of Mesmer it was, I think they were power. They died too fast.

Interesting how we're both using the same oneshot build and yet yours is doing 30k while mine is doing 15.5k, given that I activated bounding dodger, the trap, both signets, was attacking from behind and had over 90% health on myself and the golem (full) which accounts for every bonus you can possibly achieve, and the target is vulnerability stacked.

The trap was activated on the golem by killing it, placing the trap, and waiting for it to trigger when the golem respawns.

maybe there was more vulnerability and conditions on the foe, and another source of additional might on the player. it was in a game, and that might boost the number to near outrageous amounts.

I hit ~19k on the same golem type using his build, except for the heal and elite, which i dint change because i wouldnt use them for the test anyways.

XLdw2xV.png

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@"Kawloon Fuathach.3807" said:I got you buddy! https://imgur.com/a/6CDBfhWThis was done in an unranked match of sPvP. I don't remember what kind of Mesmer it was, I think they were power. They died too fast.

You are my hero! Going from using Trail of Knives to a Vault is absolute genius! :-D

Reminds me of a downed Mesmer killing me in WvW with the underwater Thief skill Shadow Assault when neither of us was underwater.

Fvw3bfe.jpg

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@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Abelisk.4527 said:Although I don't have a screencap, I hit 30k with Vault in the Free For All area.

Calling bs on this, also in unrelated news I hit 90k with mesmer autos once I just don't have a screenshot

It was on a zerk ele but I am not lying.

I will screencap it next time.

I got you buddy!
This was done in an unranked match of sPvP. I don't remember what kind of Mesmer it was, I think they were power. They died too fast.

Interesting how we're both using the same oneshot build and yet yours is doing 30k while mine is doing 15.5k, given that I activated bounding dodger, the trap, both signets, was attacking from behind and had over 90% health on myself and the golem (full) which accounts for every bonus you can possibly achieve, and the target is vulnerability stacked.

The trap was activated on the golem by killing it, placing the trap, and waiting for it to trigger when the golem respawns.

maybe there was more vulnerability and conditions on the foe, and another source of additional might on the player. it was in a game, and that might boost the number to near outrageous amounts.

I hit ~19k on the same golem
type
using his build, except for the heal and elite, which i dint change because i wouldnt use them for the test anyways.

XLdw2xV.png

Might and vulnerability were already stacked (not capped, but there's a lot in the build already) and there certainly isn't anywhere near enough to reach 30k

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Capping Might, Vulnerability and especially the Conditions present on a Target, due to the reworked 'Exposed Weakness' trait. Is definitely enough to reach 30k+ hits.Still, it's a damn gimmick of a build lol.

Out of curiosity: When you Vault+Shadow Pursuit... If I were to drop a Black Powder on my location and stay in it, would that make you 'Miss' the initial Vault?I've never had the pleasure of facing a build like this yet, hence the question.

I'd assume it depends on your timing, as well as the interval period of Black Powder...

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@Legatus.3608 said:

@Abelisk.4527 said:Although I don't have a screencap, I hit 30k with Vault in the Free For All area.

Calling bs on this, also in unrelated news I hit 90k with mesmer autos once I just don't have a screenshot

It was on a zerk ele but I am not lying.

I will screencap it next time.

I got you buddy!
This was done in an unranked match of sPvP. I don't remember what kind of Mesmer it was, I think they were power. They died too fast.

Interesting how we're both using the same oneshot build and yet yours is doing 30k while mine is doing 15.5k, given that I activated bounding dodger, the trap, both signets, was attacking from behind and had over 90% health on myself and the golem (full) which accounts for every bonus you can possibly achieve, and the target is vulnerability stacked.

The trap was activated on the golem by killing it, placing the trap, and waiting for it to trigger when the golem respawns.

maybe there was more vulnerability and conditions on the foe, and another source of additional might on the player. it was in a game, and that might boost the number to near outrageous amounts.

I hit ~19k on the same golem
type
using his build, except for the heal and elite, which i dint change because i wouldnt use them for the test anyways.

Might and vulnerability were already stacked (not capped, but there's a lot in the build already) and there certainly isn't anywhere near enough to reach 30k

I had a reve boost me to 20 might with the trap and my timing...and got 21.2k, and and 15 vuln from the sig and trap. (the previous post was just the same build he posted, but I wanted to play around to see what I could do with a little boost)

now there is a 2% more damage per unique conditions. so maybe if i could have 3-4 unique conditions on the foe with max might and max vuln a 30k might be possible.

21.2k vault basics

or maybe the mesmer in that post was a naked idiot and took double the damage...so 34k/2 = 17k...a no problem hit.

But on average, i can do about 18-19k on lights with nothing but the build he posted.

I am just guessing though.

It is easier for me to do a 28-30k worldly impact than to get a 21k vault...and I am probably already hitting hard as f--- before the big shabang

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@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Abelisk.4527 said:Although I don't have a screencap, I hit 30k with Vault in the Free For All area.

Calling bs on this, also in unrelated news I hit 90k with mesmer autos once I just don't have a screenshot

It was on a zerk ele but I am not lying.

I will screencap it next time.

I got you buddy!
This was done in an unranked match of sPvP. I don't remember what kind of Mesmer it was, I think they were power. They died too fast.

Interesting how we're both using the same oneshot build and yet yours is doing 30k while mine is doing 15.5k, given that I activated bounding dodger, the trap, both signets, was attacking from behind and had over 90% health on myself and the golem (full) which accounts for every bonus you can possibly achieve, and the target is vulnerability stacked.

The trap was activated on the golem by killing it, placing the trap, and waiting for it to trigger when the golem respawns.

maybe there was more vulnerability and conditions on the foe, and another source of additional might on the player. it was in a game, and that might boost the number to near outrageous amounts.

I hit ~19k on the same golem
type
using his build, except for the heal and elite, which i dint change because i wouldnt use them for the test anyways.

Might and vulnerability were already stacked (not capped, but there's a lot in the build already) and there certainly isn't anywhere near enough to reach 30k

I had a reve boost me to 20 might with the trap and my timing...and got 21.2k, and and 15 vuln from the sig and trap. (the previous post was just the same build he posted, but I wanted to play around to see what I could do with a little boost)

now there is a 2% more damage per unique conditions. so maybe if i could have 3-4 unique conditions on the foe with max might and max vuln a 30k might be possible.

or maybe the mesmer in that post was a naked idiot and took double the damage...so 34k/2 = 17k...a no problem hit.

But on average, i can do about 18-19k on lights with nothing but the build he posted.

I am just guessing though.

It is easier for me to do a 28-30k worldly impact than to get a 21k vault...and I am probably already hitting hard as f--- before the big shabang

That's exactly my point, he's hitting naked eles with full raid buffs and conditions and people are screening it as normal damage. This damage is not possible through normal means, you can't magically double the damage with a few extra stacks of vuln and conditions

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  • 2 weeks later...

@Arbalest.4506 said:

@"DragonFury.6243" said:the pvp in getting more and more brainless one shot festaless fun and no chance to fight back at all

I mean LITERALLY THE POST RIGHT BEFORE YOURS he explained multiple ways to avoid it, I don't know how you can not see that

I feel like you're missing his entire point or the point everyone is making against 1 shot clown kitten, so I'll throw a brief explanation in.

When a game has one shot builds it leads to 2 types of players, those that abuse the cheese and those that despise it because it is just that, cheese. It's extremely bad for the health of a pvp game to have the "counterplay" to being one shot to randomly predict when a stealth person is gonna jump on you and blow you up, this is the same reason people wanted mirage nerfed, because no one has fun plying rng simulator with their life.

It actually leads to 3 types of player: those who know to counter it, those who learn how to play against it, and those who cry about it, the later one probably overlaps with your "those that despise it" category. One shot builds are not the problem in this game. The real problem are builds that can constantly one shot you once every 10 seconds or less, who also have strog defense mecanics and can't be one shoted back by another glass canon. Cause lets face it, glass canons should be the only clases that should be able to 1shot. Oh and the 10 seconds interval i mentoned is the time one needs to recover energy for a dodge, it makes the 1shot dodgeable unless you waste evades. And yeah there are proffesions with builds that can 1shot you in a time frame less than 10 seconds while having enough defense mecanics to go toe to toe with sustained builds. I guess those are the real offenders in the game right now.

And how exactly you can counterplay a SINGLE instakill attack that came from stealth? Because that is the problem in the game right now.

It may be okay for glass canon to do 1-shot against another glass canon. But the ele in video is not really a glass canon. He invest some of offensive stats to VITALITY, yet the thief can still instakill him FROM STEALTH.

And killing player in a frame of 10 secs is not 1-shot. A lot of things can happen in that scenario. Every profession can do that.

There are ways to deal with "stealth 1-shots" too. Firstly there are passives you can use against that if you really feel like there's no other way you can deal with them. Otherwise, if you see the thief/mesmer stealthing from afar you'll know the 1shot might come any time so you can approximate the time it takes for them to be in range and dodge at the right time so they miss their burst, same you can block or invuln if that's more of your profession style. But there is also a good counterplay in getting into stealth yourself so they lose target on you and lose time, some might even steal on nothing and waste their cooldown. And don't forget about revealed, since stuff like sic 'em would surely work in the thief burst range. It's only a problem of awareness and not getting a viable wvw build. If you go with your build all pve and are not prepared to get bursted (the right utilities, weapons and traits - and yeah, there are some better then others for this sort of thing, you can't go around that), you'll die pretty fast in wvw even with 3000 toughness, and not only by stealth burst, but by any sort of burst done by any decent player.

Sorry for the late reply, I was gone on a holiday trip. Cheers.

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@Kageseigi.2150 said:

@"Kawloon Fuathach.3807" said:I got you buddy!
This was done in an unranked match of sPvP. I don't remember what kind of Mesmer it was, I think they were power. They died too fast.

You are my hero! Going from using Trail of Knives to a Vault is absolute genius! :-D

Reminds me of a downed Mesmer killing me in WvW with the underwater Thief skill
when neither of us was underwater.

Fvw3bfe.jpg

this is what shows when you get hit by the mesmer downed phantasm, at least it was that last time i got hit by it wich was ages ago not sure if it changed since.

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@"Eddbopkins.2630" said:https://plays.tv/video/5b500764cc0fd5f54b/thf-vault-19k-

for get about it doing 19k....my question is why is he still invisible to do the 4.9k follow up hit?

i feel u need a base line of 17k hp then u have an amulet to make ur hp higher to like 25k+....if u start off with anything less u will just be this. unavoidable insta death.

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but there are mechanics around granting stealth that allows players to remain stealthed despite hitting with an attack.

The easiest example is Black Powder into Heartseeker - the damage is applied before the combo effect at the end of the leap animation, meaning you will get your stealth even if you hit someone given that you weren't stealthed beforehand.

As Vault is also a leap finisher, a simple black powder + Vault + Steal (without Mug trait) will function in the exact same way.

Another thing to keep in mind is the nature of the skill, because the functionality usually comes in 3 types:

  • Effects are applied at the start of animation (precast)
  • Effects can be applied between 2 separate actions in 1 skill, leaving a window between button pressed and parameters met
  • Effects are applied at the end of animation (aftercast, common with higher cast times)

A great example of the second is Cloak and Dagger skill when paired with Hidden Thief trait. Logic dictates that if you steal before CnD you will get revealed right, as it does damage and therefore the CnD stealth doesn't proc. However - if you precast CnD and use Steal during the aftercast (for those of you wanting to try, steal after 50% of CnD is done, because steal stealth still takes ~.5 seconds to proc so more than enough) allows the damage packet to hit (it goes tp-dmg-secondary skill effect-traited effect priority for most skills), immediately followed up by CnD stealth and then from Hidden Thief. Meaning you teleport to target, get in a sweet 1,25 coefficient dmg packet and a free 7 seconds of stealth.

Same apply in your case. If he Vaults on the spot then uses Shadow Pursuit in the aftercast (after evade on its way down) this will not proc revealed since the damage is prioritized over secondary skill effects like stealth application.

Clientside though he will be stealthed for you the moment he appears near you, which is why it seems to be coming out of nowhere. Alot of effects cause this disparity between what both players actually see on their screen at the same time, but if anet hasn't found a way around it by now I doubt they will. So for now look for swirling dark shadows around your feet and know within the next 10 seconds you might get bursted - at any sign (be it daze, blind, vulnerability) dodge it, if not use your blocks/evades/invulns/boons/AoEs proactively.

Or to completely mess the thief up simply break Line Of Sight by jumping on a rock- this way their teleport will fail, they waste 5 initiative and have to wait 45 seconds to try again. Do a mental 10 second countdown to be sure and you are safe.

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  • 1 year later...

@Arbalest.4506 said:

@"Legatus.3608" said:

Funny how stealth is preparation for a ranger but not for a thief, and how backstab or dj are one shot builds but worldly impact or maul is not

I'm not even going to bother arguing the actual build until you clear out all that really obvious bias

Which are my statement that bias to you? I never specifically said that thief's stealth is not part of preparation.

I also never said that 30k worldly impact is not a 1-shot build. And I do want that to get nerf too.

I just point out that not only thief who takes time to prepare for insane damage.

All class have need preparation for maximum burst. But right now only thief and ranger able to 1-shot people with no chance of survival.I can still as of current patch pull "1" shot if over 20k sometimes with wordly impact from 9 sec stealth wuthout mightstacking or vuln on target.. so yeah if you think only thief "could" (rip trap) pull this off , well 90 % of pvp population is just that much misinformed.

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