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I'm sorry for Trahearne (SPOILERS)


Clyan.1593

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I remember me and my friends making fun of him, generally making fun of everything in the story from lvl 1-80, especially the fight against zhaitan was just too goofy and cheesy for us.

But now, with the game developing and getting better (imo) looking back Trahearne's death feels kind of bad. Almost like the community killed him, instead of Mordremoth.The same goes with Scarlett of course, however, I personally feel Scarlett died a good death.Trahearne totally got mutilated. That guy was a firstborn, he belonged to a rare line, and probably was destined for big things. He's big thing however was to get entangled by Mordremoth, consumed and then being forced to sacrifice himself to end the Jungle Dragon.

Poor guy.

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@"Oglaf.1074" said:No. I will never forgive his Mary Sue treebutt for coming in and stealing the show, making the latter half of my personal story all about him, nor will I ever take anything but sick pleasure from having been the one to do him in for good.

That's how things go. There's a hierarchy everwhere, even in your daily life. Until you're the big boss noone will give you credit's for anything. I have no issue with that, I never cared about it. I mean it's just a game and what the NPCs "think" doesn't matter to me.

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@Clyan.1593 said:

@"Oglaf.1074" said:No. I will never forgive his Mary Sue treebutt for coming in and stealing the show, making the latter half of
my
personal story all about
him
, nor will I ever take anything but sick pleasure from having been the one to do him in for good.

That's how things go. There's a hierarchy everwhere, even in your daily life. Until you're the big boss noone will give you credit's for anything. I have no issue with that, I never cared about it. I mean it's just a game and what the NPCs "think" doesn't matter to me.

Wat. That’s entirely irrelevant to what I’m talking about.

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@Oglaf.1074 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:No. I will never forgive his Mary Sue treebutt for coming in and stealing the show, making the latter half of
my
personal story all about
him
, nor will I ever take anything but sick pleasure from having been the one to do him in for good.

That's how things go. There's a hierarchy everwhere, even in your daily life. Until you're the big boss noone will give you credit's for anything. I have no issue with that, I never cared about it. I mean it's just a game and what the NPCs "think" doesn't matter to me.

Wat. That’s entirely irrelevant to what I’m talking about.

Why is it irrelevant? You said you didn't like that Trehearne stole the limelight from you. Clyan pointed out that he is your boss, bosses usually get the credit. That is completely on topic and relevant to what you were saying. You just don't agree with it.

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@Moonyeti.3296 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:No. I will never forgive his Mary Sue treebutt for coming in and stealing the show, making the latter half of
my
personal story all about
him
, nor will I ever take anything but sick pleasure from having been the one to do him in for good.

That's how things go. There's a hierarchy everwhere, even in your daily life. Until you're the big boss noone will give you credit's for anything. I have no issue with that, I never cared about it. I mean it's just a game and what the NPCs "think" doesn't matter to me.

Wat. That’s entirely irrelevant to what I’m talking about.

Why is it irrelevant? You said you didn't like that Trehearne stole the limelight from you. Clyan pointed out that he is your boss, bosses usually get the credit. That is completely on topic and relevant to what you were saying. You just don't agree with it.

No it is irrelevant because I’ve no issues with “a boss” character and have said nothing of the sort. See for example the Pact Mentor characters (Forgal, Tybalt and the third one) - perfectly fine characters all of them. The issue is that Tree Jebus shouldn’t have been written like that in the first place.

This is our personal story, not the Chronicles of Mary Sue Tree Jebus. As soon as that dreadful vegetable is introduced it ceases to be about your character and he/she is reduced to a sideline observer of his personal story.

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@Oglaf.1074 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:No. I will never forgive his Mary Sue treebutt for coming in and stealing the show, making the latter half of
my
personal story all about
him
, nor will I ever take anything but sick pleasure from having been the one to do him in for good.

That's how things go. There's a hierarchy everwhere, even in your daily life. Until you're the big boss noone will give you credit's for anything. I have no issue with that, I never cared about it. I mean it's just a game and what the NPCs "think" doesn't matter to me.

Wat. That’s entirely irrelevant to what I’m talking about.

Why is it irrelevant? You said you didn't like that Trehearne stole the limelight from you. Clyan pointed out that he is your boss, bosses usually get the credit. That is completely on topic and relevant to what you were saying. You just don't agree with it.

No it is irrelevant because I’ve no issues with “a boss” character and have said nothing of the sort. The issue is that Tree Jebus shouldn’t have been written like that in the first place.

This is
our
personal story, not the Chronicles of Mary Sue Tree Jebus. As soon as that dreadful vegetable is introduced it ceases to be about your character and he/she is reduced to a sideline observer.

Yeah, you made your point the first time, that still doesn't make it irrelevant, it makes it a different opinion. Irrelevant would be something off topic. This is directly on topic, just a different take on it.

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@Moonyeti.3296 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:No. I will never forgive his Mary Sue treebutt for coming in and stealing the show, making the latter half of
my
personal story all about
him
, nor will I ever take anything but sick pleasure from having been the one to do him in for good.

That's how things go. There's a hierarchy everwhere, even in your daily life. Until you're the big boss noone will give you credit's for anything. I have no issue with that, I never cared about it. I mean it's just a game and what the NPCs "think" doesn't matter to me.

Wat. That’s entirely irrelevant to what I’m talking about.

Why is it irrelevant? You said you didn't like that Trehearne stole the limelight from you. Clyan pointed out that he is your boss, bosses usually get the credit. That is completely on topic and relevant to what you were saying. You just don't agree with it.

No it is irrelevant because I’ve no issues with “a boss” character and have said nothing of the sort. The issue is that Tree Jebus shouldn’t have been written like that in the first place.

This is
our
personal story, not the Chronicles of Mary Sue Tree Jebus. As soon as that dreadful vegetable is introduced it ceases to be about your character and he/she is reduced to a sideline observer.

Yeah, you made your point the first time, that still doesn't make it irrelevant, it makes it a different opinion. Irrelevant would be something off topic. This is directly on topic, just a different take on it.

Relevant to the topic, irrelevant to the point I was making.

Now cease this petty derailment of the thread, please.

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@Oglaf.1074 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:No. I will never forgive his Mary Sue treebutt for coming in and stealing the show, making the latter half of
my
personal story all about
him
, nor will I ever take anything but sick pleasure from having been the one to do him in for good.

That's how things go. There's a hierarchy everwhere, even in your daily life. Until you're the big boss noone will give you credit's for anything. I have no issue with that, I never cared about it. I mean it's just a game and what the NPCs "think" doesn't matter to me.

Wat. That’s entirely irrelevant to what I’m talking about.

Why is it irrelevant? You said you didn't like that Trehearne stole the limelight from you. Clyan pointed out that he is your boss, bosses usually get the credit. That is completely on topic and relevant to what you were saying. You just don't agree with it.

No it is irrelevant because I’ve no issues with “a boss” character and have said nothing of the sort. The issue is that Tree Jebus shouldn’t have been written like that in the first place.

This is
our
personal story, not the Chronicles of Mary Sue Tree Jebus. As soon as that dreadful vegetable is introduced it ceases to be about your character and he/she is reduced to a sideline observer.

Yeah, you made your point the first time, that still doesn't make it irrelevant, it makes it a different opinion. Irrelevant would be something off topic. This is directly on topic, just a different take on it.

Relevant to
the topic
, irrelevant to
the point I was making
.

Now cease this petty derailment of the thread, please.

Uh, you already derailed it with calling out disagreement as irrelevant. That's what I was pointing out. Carry on, soldier.
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He did not take credit for things we did. When other NPCs tried to do that, he always corrected them.I'm quite glad the Commander did not have to go through 25 years of research themselves, actually. :lol: The core story seemed kind of forced as it was already. So, for me the fact that the PC did not do every single thing by themselves and had other people contribute significantly was actually a plus. It made the whole thing a bit more believable.

I did not mind Trahearne in the core story. He was a bit weird at times and I was kind of suspicious of the Sylvari in general, so I was not a "fan" or anything, but I certainly didn't hate him or any of the DE members. They were all a bit bland, but alright. (Actually, I already felt sorry for Trahearne when he got Caladbolg. Poor necro being stuck with a greatsword with no elite specs in sight....)

So, I totally agree with the OP. I do not even mind the fact that Trahearne died in HoT, but the way it was done and the timing were awful. He did not just have potential for great things, he had actually done great things for Tyria. This death was completely unfair and unfitting for him. Also, the way it was handled later. Why did only the Sylvari care a little? How come?

And along came PoF where we learned the implications of horrible, traumatic deaths. Just great.And now there's a lonely Sylvari at the festival who STILL hears Mordremoth's voice and who DID indeed revert from mordrefication. So... After all, killing Trahearne maybe was not even completely unavoidable? Wow.

I really hope this never repeats for any other character. I hope the PC now is "special" enough for people, so they won't get as jealous anymore.

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Doesn’t really matter if he took credit or not. It wasn’t really about him as a character, but rather the role his character was forced into and how he, willingly or not, became the main focus in a story that was supposed to be about your character.

Not the character’s own fault, but the fault of Anet’s writers. If that makes any sense?

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Well, but that really only ever matters in the core story, right? I don't know if he appeared in LS1 at all and in LS2 he's just there for moral support and for organizing the Pact offscreen. So, after the core story the PC definitely is the main focus of the story we play, right?

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@Fenella.2634 said:Well, but that really only ever matters in the core story, right? I don't know if he appeared in LS1 at all and in LS2 he's just there for moral support and for organizing the Pact offscreen. So, after the core story the PC definitely is the main focus of the story we play, right?

Honestly, I don’t know. Most recent LW episodes seems to be more focused on the main villain’s actions and then all the good guys (PC included) just being equally dragged along for the ride fueled by whatever Plot Device/Maguffin/Ex Machina that Taimi pulls out of her adorable behind in response said villain’s action.

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@Oglaf.1074 said:See for example the Pact Mentor characters (Forgal, Tybalt and the third one) - perfectly fine characters all of them.Poor Sieran. No one ever remebers her. That is so not cherry!

As for Trahearne taking the lead of the Pact, I don't really have a problem with it myself. First of all, he has to coordinate most of the attacks, while we as the Commander are free to lead the actual attacks. Second, as they said in game, he wasn't a member of any of the Orders, so he won't show a bias to any one of them. Third, from a game-design angle, it's easier to later identify a single NPC instead of having to describe a nameless PC who could be either gender or 5 different races. That's the same reason we turned down the Marshall position in the start of Season 3, especially as it was going to be a desk posting, staying far away from any danger. Unless, of course, you wanted to play Paperwork Wars 2.

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@Rognik.2579 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:See for example the Pact Mentor characters (Forgal, Tybalt and the third one) - perfectly fine characters all of them.Poor Sieran. No one ever remebers her. That is so not cherry!

As for Trahearne taking the lead of the Pact, I don't really have a problem with it myself. First of all, he has to coordinate most of the attacks, while we as the Commander are free to lead the actual attacks. Second, as they said in game, he wasn't a member of any of the Orders, so he won't show a bias to any one of them. Third, from a game-design angle, it's easier to later identify a single NPC instead of having to describe a nameless PC who could be either gender or 5 different races. That's the same reason we turned down the Marshall position in the start of Season 3, especially as it was going to be a desk posting, staying far away from any danger. Unless, of course, you wanted to play Paperwork Wars 2.

That someone who wasn't the player character led the pact isn't the problem, it's that Trahearne is a huge Mary sue who comes out of nowhere and takes the reins, there are better ways it could have been executed and the story only got better when he was gone.

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The story could have been exactly the same without him dying. He could have done the desktop job just as well as Logan and the Pact is pretty much out of the picture anyway. So yes, the story got better. But that started right with LS2 and is not tied directly to Trahearne's death.Also, you might want to double check the meaning of Mary Sue?

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Personally, Trahearne's death hurt because his Wyld Hunt ended, but due to his loyalty and sense of duty to the Pact, he decided to stay with it; he could have just very easily walked away and moved on to other things. Also, I really don't see how he stole anything : He didn't steal your credit, he merely took his part as Pact Marshal into stride and tried to be social. As for awkwardness, I can relate to that. I mean, he spent most of his 25 years in every Resident Evil's dream (or nightmare) and lived, he was well spoken, but you could tell he felt as though he was a bit out of place, it's especially evident during the party after the defeat of Zhaitan : I didn't see him, standing down there, basking in the glory, he was up on the airship, thinking of all that had transpired. The only reason he joined the party was because the Commander pretty much drug his treebark butt down there. Also, although he sounded kind of bored, I think that has more to do with his inability to really grasps society's norms on how you should act, opposed to it being a character flaw. And, there were two times I hated him: When he summoned a whole bunch of elite Flesh Golems and I was like: "Dude, wtf, you can do that now but you couldn't do that when we were ambushed? So what it drains ya, get out there and stop getting bounced around like a ping pong ball." and when I regrew Caladbolg and he...truly sounded menacing: "This won't end well...for you." and, you know, being a pain in the butt with his dramatically improved necromancer powers.

And this story is not about you, even your personal story: Just like life, the sum of who you are relates to what you've seen and done. I mean, even games like Wild ARMS 3, whose protagonist, the "Leader", had much to lose and gain in equal measure, it didn't mean she made it about her, her teammates were the ones that pulled her out of depression and saved her life, despite the fact that she had saved their butts quite often, as well. And, even when he had his doubts, I never saw Trahearne belittle or make light of the main character's plight. He was always glad to see them, he gave them the credit for helping with his Wyld Hunt and for helping him establish the Pact. And the fact that he "adopted" the title of Marshal means that it seemed to be the only logical title to hold, as he was, technically the main cog that kept the clock turning by making plans and trusting the Commander not to screw things up. He trusted you, believed in you, wanted to keep you safe. Annd, I've talked too much.

[Tsakhi vanish! Woosh! ]

tumbles out of the smoke ball Well, damn. : (

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@"Oglaf.1074" , I actually do see where you're going and I agree in regards to him being put in a spot that didn't seem quite fitting, however, as a whole, it seems as though the community hated Trahearne specifically because he stole "your" story. Then again, I probably think way too much about this kind of thing. XD

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@"Fenella.2634" said:Also, you might want to double check the meaning of Mary Sue.

He's a pretty text book case of a Mary Sue, you might want to look it up yourself. He somehow has history with all of the order mentors, has no personality or charm but is somehow liked by everyone, just happens to he such a powerful necromancer he summons a whole gang of flesh golems /and/ can single handedly purify an entire continent. Then there's the fact he has no experience yet somehow magically pulls the ability to lead an entire army out of nowhere... Then there's the whole "he's the chosen one by the tree to wield this legendary magic sword". All of these are Mary Sue traits.

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I could never really buy him as leader of the Pact. He didn't really have any charisma, or military experience. He wasn't somehow a mix of the strengths of the three Orders, he was basically just another Priory scholar that happened not to have a formal membership. He was a firstborn, true (they could have talked that up more), he had a Wyld Hunt regarding the dragon (which makes him a more verbal Aurene, ie a plot device, not a commander). I could see if he fell into it due to cynical machinations on the part of the Order leaders (trying to set up a figurehead to manipulate), and randomly happened to be good at it. I could see if he was written more as an intense charismatic not-quite-religious leader on a crusade against the dragon that pulled people along with him.

Nothing against the guy, but both his relationship with the PC and with the Pact were just pulled out of the air without any real narrative backing. You know, how in a fan fiction a character might be added who becomes friends with all the important protagonist characters for some unexplained reason and everyone loves and doesn't just join one faction, but finds a way to rapidly become leader of all of them (i.e. a Mary Sue, or else an Elder Scrolls player character). Of course, the PC is also a bit of a Mary Sue, at least in the Personal Story, but there's at least an established progression that explains how you're building your reputation up. It's mostly the interest of your DE mentor that feels a little contrived (e.g., it's hard to take being the hero of Shaemoor seriously when it isn't even a solo instance, so there are multiple heroes. What makes you stand out?). Well, that, and becoming Pact Commander rather than just becoming an elite operative in your chosen Order.

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First of all, shame on the guy who forgot Sieran. All three mentors were quite memorable.

Second, Trahearne may have not stolen our credit for any action, but he did still the credit for the name of Fort Trinity.

Third, he was a horrible choice for Pact Commander, and someone else should have taken the job (not the PC). Trahearne would make an excellent choice for chief advisor on all things Orr/Zhaitan. He was a scholar, not a military commander. He had the charisma of a bog log too.

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@smekras.8203 said:

  • First of all, shame on the guy who forgot Sieran.

I’m a Vigil Boi. All my characters except two alts (for the other factions respectively) are Vigil. That’s why I couldn’t remember the Priory mentor. Tybalt I remember solely because of the one scene where he transforms into a teenage girl and talks about his newfound pair of lovely, round apples. :wink:

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