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How to balance every single thing that's bad on Engineer [PvP]


Chaith.8256

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@Chaith.8256 said:

@PierPiero.9142 said:Putting incendiary powder back in explosive ?

nah, why? I think Firearms was supposed to be the condition damage traitline and they've kind of achieved that. Yes it was everything with Cele stats for core Engi when in explosives but that era is gone anyway, it would do nothing to go back :(

Problem is that now you have no good source of damage in condi engi with firearms alone . Nades and bombs not traited are not that great ....

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@EUmad.7645 said:

@PierPiero.9142 said:Putting incendiary powder back in explosive ?

nah, why? I think Firearms was supposed to be the condition damage traitline and they've kind of achieved that. Yes it was everything with Cele stats for core Engi when in explosives but that era is gone anyway, it would do nothing to go back :(

Problem is that now you have no good source of damage in condi engi with firearms alone . Nades and bombs not traited are not that great ....

Flamethrower is supposed to do that. Condi flamethrower requires no Explosives traits.My suggestions on condi Engi, executive summary,

  • Reduce CD of Incendiary Powder and Incendiary Ammunition by close to half, (possibly reduced duration of burns)
  • Buffs/Qol for Flamethrower
  • Buffs/Qol to bombs
  • Moving Short Fuse to Inventions so you can run Firearms, Inventions and maybe even another defensive traitline.

So the problem you pose about there being no good condi damage with Firearms alone, I expect that to be fixed if enough of my suggestions were put in.

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@Chaith.8256 said:

@PierPiero.9142 said:Putting incendiary powder back in explosive ?

nah, why? I think Firearms was supposed to be the condition damage traitline and they've kind of achieved that. Yes it was everything with Cele stats for core Engi when in explosives but that era is gone anyway, it would do nothing to go back :(

Problem is that now you have no good source of damage in condi engi with firearms alone . Nades and bombs not traited are not that great ....
  • Moving Short Fuse to Inventions so you can run Firearms, Inventions and maybe even another defensive traitline.

So the problem you pose about there being no good condi damage with Firearms alone, I expect that to be fixed if enough of my suggestions were put in.

It kind of seems odd to move an Explosives trait to Inventions. Maybe Chemical Rounds in Firearms could be buffed to increase condition duration on all skills instead of only the pistols?

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@Hoodie.1045 said:

@PierPiero.9142 said:Putting incendiary powder back in explosive ?

nah, why? I think Firearms was supposed to be the condition damage traitline and they've kind of achieved that. Yes it was everything with Cele stats for core Engi when in explosives but that era is gone anyway, it would do nothing to go back :(

Problem is that now you have no good source of damage in condi engi with firearms alone . Nades and bombs not traited are not that great ....
  • Moving Short Fuse to Inventions so you can run Firearms, Inventions and maybe even another defensive traitline.

So the problem you pose about there being no good condi damage with Firearms alone, I expect that to be fixed if enough of my suggestions were put in.

It kind of seems odd to move an Explosives trait to Inventions. Maybe Chemical Rounds in Firearms could be buffed to increase condition duration on all skills instead of only the pistols?

Inventions has (had more) bomb traits.... AutoBomb dispenser, elixir infused bombs...

What kit would you say corresponds with Inventions? There's only one, bomb kit.

Explosives- Nade/MortarFirearms- FlamethrowerAlchemy- Med Kit/Elixir GunTools- Tool KitInventions- ???

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@Chaith.8256 said:

@PierPiero.9142 said:Putting incendiary powder back in explosive ?

nah, why? I think Firearms was supposed to be the condition damage traitline and they've kind of achieved that. Yes it was everything with Cele stats for core Engi when in explosives but that era is gone anyway, it would do nothing to go back :(

Problem is that now you have no good source of damage in condi engi with firearms alone . Nades and bombs not traited are not that great ....
  • Moving Short Fuse to Inventions so you can run Firearms, Inventions and maybe even another defensive traitline.

So the problem you pose about there being no good condi damage with Firearms alone, I expect that to be fixed if enough of my suggestions were put in.

It kind of seems odd to move an Explosives trait to Inventions. Maybe Chemical Rounds in Firearms could be buffed to increase condition duration on all skills instead of only the pistols?

Inventions has (had more) bomb traits.... AutoBomb dispenser, elixir infused bombs...

What kit would you say corresponds with Inventions? There's only one, bomb kit.

Explosives- Nade/MortarFirearms- FlamethrowerAlchemy- Med Kit/Elixir GunTools- Tool KitInventions- ???

I remember Elixir-Infused Bombs and yes I do agree that the bomb kit corresponds with Inventions, at least only with Autodefense Bomb Dispenser. I think it would be a good idea if Bunker Down was replaced with Short Fuse and in Explosives they could replace the current Short Fuse with the old Short Fuse which reduced cooldown on grenade and bomb skills, but I guess in this case it would only benefit the grenades, so maybe a 10% increase on grenade skills and reduced cooldown?

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@Hoodie.1045 said:

@PierPiero.9142 said:Putting incendiary powder back in explosive ?

nah, why? I think Firearms was supposed to be the condition damage traitline and they've kind of achieved that. Yes it was everything with Cele stats for core Engi when in explosives but that era is gone anyway, it would do nothing to go back :(

Problem is that now you have no good source of damage in condi engi with firearms alone . Nades and bombs not traited are not that great ....
  • Moving Short Fuse to Inventions so you can run Firearms, Inventions and maybe even another defensive traitline.

So the problem you pose about there being no good condi damage with Firearms alone, I expect that to be fixed if enough of my suggestions were put in.

It kind of seems odd to move an Explosives trait to Inventions. Maybe Chemical Rounds in Firearms could be buffed to increase condition duration on all skills instead of only the pistols?

Inventions has (had more) bomb traits.... AutoBomb dispenser, elixir infused bombs...

What kit would you say corresponds with Inventions? There's only one, bomb kit.

Explosives- Nade/MortarFirearms- FlamethrowerAlchemy- Med Kit/Elixir GunTools- Tool KitInventions- ???

I remember Elixir-Infused Bombs and yes I do agree that the bomb kit corresponds with Inventions, at least only with Autodefense Bomb Dispenser. I think it would be a good idea if Bunker Down was replaced with Short Fuse and in Explosives they could replace the current Short Fuse with the old Short Fuse which reduced cooldown on grenade and bomb skills, but I guess in this case it would only benefit the grenades, so maybe a 10% increase on grenade skills and reduced cooldown?

Interesting,

That leaves two Grenade kit traits, as others pointed out about having two hammer traits, it's just not that smooth.

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@Chaith.8256 said:

@PierPiero.9142 said:Putting incendiary powder back in explosive ?

nah, why? I think Firearms was supposed to be the condition damage traitline and they've kind of achieved that. Yes it was everything with Cele stats for core Engi when in explosives but that era is gone anyway, it would do nothing to go back :(

I think incendiary powder needs to stay in firearms as well. A decrease in cooldown would bring it back to a really good option, and would really keep opponents pressured with the imminent threat of burning on a critical. And yes, firearms is made to focus on critical hits (mainly chance) and condition damage.

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Another thing I'dd add to the list is impact savant. It should be 20 or 25%, and be optional in the traitline somewhere.

As a minor trait, all scrappers have it automaticly. 90% of engineer barrier access is on engineer. Therefore, its barriers are balanced already to incorporate 15% extra. Besides, scrappers can be built without barriers aswell.

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@The V.8759 said:Another thing I'dd add to the list is impact savant. It should be 20 or 25%, and be optional in the traitline somewhere.

As a minor trait, all scrappers have it automaticly. 90% of engineer barrier access is on engineer. Therefore, its barriers are balanced already to incorporate 15% extra. Besides, scrappers can be built without barriers aswell.

It's not the kind of trait that can be a major trait. It's a new trait, and one that also works on incoming scourge barriers. I agree that not building for barriers makes this trait a bit dumb to be mandatory... I'd be in favor of replacing it completely so you won't feel forced into building for barriers. But it's low priority

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@The V.8759 said:Another thing I'dd add to the list is impact savant. It should be 20 or 25%, and be optional in the traitline somewhere.

As a minor trait, all scrappers have it automaticly. 90% of engineer barrier access is on engineer. Therefore, its barriers are balanced already to incorporate 15% extra. Besides, scrappers can be built without barriers aswell.

Yeah. I find that kind of minor trait to be a really weak cop-out.

As you say, literally ALL the barrier (except a bit in Holo, which is incompatible with Scrapper anyway) Engi can do requires Scrapper. That means that trait may as well not exist and the barriers should be 15% stronger by default. There's no way to select a different minor trait, so the 15% bonus effictively IS base and the trait is pointless.

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@coro.3176 said:

@The V.8759 said:Another thing I'dd add to the list is impact savant. It should be 20 or 25%, and be optional in the traitline somewhere.

As a minor trait, all scrappers have it automaticly. 90% of engineer barrier access is on engineer. Therefore, its barriers are balanced already to incorporate 15% extra. Besides, scrappers can be built without barriers aswell.

Yeah. I find that kind of minor trait to be a really weak cop-out.

As you say, literally ALL the barrier (except a bit in Holo, which is incompatible with Scrapper anyway) Engi can do requires Scrapper. That means that trait may as well not exist and the barriers should be 15% stronger by default. There's no way to select a different minor trait, so the 15% bonus effictively IS base and the trait is pointless.

Again, it's not a complete cop out because it has synergy with any barriers from other player sources. 90% cop out

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@The V.8759 said:Another thing I'dd add to the list is impact savant. It should be 20 or 25%, and be optional in the traitline somewhere.

As a minor trait, all scrappers have it automaticly. 90% of engineer barrier access is on engineer. Therefore, its barriers are balanced already to incorporate 15% extra. Besides, scrappers can be built without barriers aswell.

One of my suggestions, was to merge Impact Savant and Adaptive Armor all into Adaptive armor, and make Adaptive Armor the minor trait. This, along with making Rapid Regeneration a minor trait, would open up a lot of build opportunities, and really put the scrapper in the place of a tank. With this, the Scrapper can then opt for more damage mitigation with a new grandmaster major trait (also in my suggestions), more support-based healing for self and others using superspeed with Final Salvo, or more Damage/Duelist oriented with Applied Force.

As well, if Chaith's idea for replacing Expert Examination is not considered, Expert examination could be a proc on hit/crit to enemies to apply weakness and vuln, and maybe be renamed to Hindering Blows, and maybe with an ICD of around 10 seconds or less.

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@Ghos.1326 said:

@The V.8759 said:Another thing I'dd add to the list is impact savant. It should be 20 or 25%, and be optional in the traitline somewhere.

As a minor trait, all scrappers have it automaticly. 90% of engineer barrier access is on engineer. Therefore, its barriers are balanced already to incorporate 15% extra. Besides, scrappers can be built without barriers aswell.

One of my suggestions, was to merge Impact Savant and Adaptive Armor all into Adaptive armor, and make Adaptive Armor the minor trait. This, along with making Rapid Regeneration a minor trait, would open up a lot of build opportunities, and really put the scrapper in the place of a tank. With this, the Scrapper can then opt for more damage mitigation with a new grandmaster major trait (also in my suggestions), more support-based healing for self and others using superspeed with Final Salvo, or more Damage/Duelist oriented with Applied Force.

I agree from a design perspective, Rapid Regen and Adaptive Armor make total sense as minor traits in a tank line.

However, that change would make Scrapper completely OP. Having Rapid Regeneration, Mass Momentum, Adaptive Armor and Final Salvo all in the same build... when all you'd give up would be the useless Decisive Renown, as you've already merged Impact Savant into Adaptive Armor. OP AF

If they made Rapid Regeneration and Adaptive armor into 'lesser' versions I could see them going into minor slots. Impact Savant would definitely NOT be getting merged, you'd have to lose that.

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Updated my Scrapper hammer suggestions to include a few more:

1.) Increased the range of the Hammer Auto-Attack from 130 to170

2.) Electro Whirl's reflecting effect activates immediately.

3.) Rocket Charge now evades for the entire animation instead of 3 miniature evades, damage reduced by 20% to compensate.

4.) Shock shield now provides a barrier to allies as well as the Scrapper, the barrier for other allies would be stronger: appr. 400/pulse.

5.) Thunderclap now inflicts 3 vulnerability per pulse, up from 1.

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Made an update to Short Fuse. (I already suggested Explosives Short Fuse and Inventions Bunker Down switch places)

Bunker down, now 'Short Fuse'. Currently: Bombs have shorter fuse time and 20% reduced recharge. New: In addition to its current effects, bomb explosions heal allies 145 (.15). Re-name to Elixir Infused Bombs!

Tack back on Elixir Infused Bombs feature to Short Fuse and make it a rightful Inventions GM, and add a little sustain to the currently suicidal bomb builds that old players will recognize.

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Another change added to Scrapper:

Function Gyro as a class mechanic needs to be good for solo Scrappers and better for Scrappers of all builds.

  • Function Gyro while at your side, off-cooldown, will crackle with energy and grant 10% reduced damage taken from power and condition sources.
  • Function Gyro itself when spawned will have one stability stack for 4s, baseline. (With Final Salvo it would be two stacks.)
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  • 3 weeks later...

Added a couple suggestion tweaks to work in more cripple to kits that really need it.

Rocket Charge now evades for the entire animation instead of 3 miniature evades, added 3s of cripple per hit. Damage reduced by 20% to compensate.

Box of nails: Increased radius from 240 to 300 and cripple from 2s to 3s

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@Chaith.8256 said:Added a couple suggestion tweaks to work in more cripple to kits that really need it.

Rocket Charge now evades for the entire animation instead of 3 miniature evades, added 3s of cripple per hit. Damage reduced by 20% to compensate.

Box of nails: Increased radius from 240 to 300 and cripple from 2s to 3s

This would be so lovely. It could solve the mobility issue of a scrapper with a hammer equipped, by using cripple to keep opponents in range of attacks. Def thumbs up'd this post.

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Can you add normalization of sPvP holo to WvW to the list?

Holo is SUPER broken in WvW because it never took any of the sPvP nerfs and is still dealing 25-75% more damage per skill there. OP is maintaining a level head with the discussion and suggestions as a whole here, but Holo is even beginning to eclipse mirage as the premier roaming spec thanks to HF still being way overtuned + Endurance food (which is a separate issue breaking Holo/Mirage thanks to on-dodge effects).

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@Chaith.8256 said:Added a couple suggestion tweaks to work in more cripple to kits that really need it.

Rocket Charge now evades for the entire animation instead of 3 miniature evades, added 3s of cripple per hit. Damage reduced by 20% to compensate.

Box of nails: Increased radius from 240 to 300 and cripple from 2s to 3s

The attention to Box of nails would be appreciated, but I don't think that's enough to make it worth its 3/4s cast time. If it were instant or 1/4s, I might consider using it with those numbers. IMO, if it's going to be a 3/4s cast, it really ought to do 5x (or more) its current bleed damage. (keeping in mind, it's less than 2k total currently, assuming the opponent stands in it for 5 seconds and does not cleanse - a more realistic scenario is the opponent stands in it for 1-2s and cleanses almost immediately.)

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@DeceiverX.8361 said:Can you add normalization of sPvP holo to WvW to the list?

Holo is SUPER broken in WvW because it never took any of the sPvP nerfs and is still dealing 25-75% more damage per skill there. OP is maintaining a level head with the discussion and suggestions as a whole here, but Holo is even beginning to eclipse mirage as the premier roaming spec thanks to HF still being way overtuned + Endurance food (which is a separate issue breaking Holo/Mirage thanks to on-dodge effects).

That's a discussion for another thread, I really can't comment on those issues

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