Venta healer, better than druid, hmm???? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Venta healer, better than druid, hmm????

aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭
 Okay so let me start off with this isn't a druid bash thread, also WHY AREN'T THERE MORE VENTA HEALERS? Hopefully this thread popularizes it. Let's look at some facts here.. 

So firstly I would like to state that the ventari/kalla, Renegade build is insanely strong .. And for those who don't know much about ventari/renegade/kalla takes some notes.

_ - Gear_ - You will be using all harriers gear (Power, Healing, Concentration). Basically you use harriers for the PERMA- might(25), protection, regen, vigor, fury, alacrity and the power that harrier gear brings to the table for a renegade is outstanding 4-6k easily in raids and fractals that's a feat to its self for healers in the game. You will be running sword/sword(I use axe in fractals because of the pull) and staff. Obviously staff for the healing on the 4th skill and condition removal on the 4th skill and the healing orbs(350+healing for each orb x2) on the autos etc.. staff is overall a great weapon for the revenant on all sorts of builds. Sword/ Sword obviously for the devastating dmg it does. The chill, the fury(gain vigor whenever you gain fury). Also I run Altruism runes instead of the Monk runes.
Traits
-Salvation trait-line brings such a strong healing option at least 42% extra healing power...… that alone is another feat no other class can bring to the table. Being able to hit 7k on Natural Harmony every two seconds is awesome you're basically looking at, AT LEAST 14k healing just from that alone in 2 seconds, plus perma regen which is 460 a tick plus if you drop down breakrazor's bastion which does 2700+ ticks for 10 seconds and also brings 50% less dmg from conditions is a great plus.. you're looking at in just 3 seconds 460 from perma regen 14k from natural harmony 550 on project tranquility(Every 3 seconds a burst from the tablet itself does 550) and by the way this is all without the invoking harmony (trait in salvation that gives 20 additional percent to healing power) so basically calculate 20% at the end of all that to see what you actually get because every 10 seconds your swapping legends anyways. You're looking at, at least 17.7k healing every 3 seconds and that's continuous healing.. there is no break in between this. Also don't forget I didn't even calculate the 20% from the legend swap Invoking Harmony 20% extra healing power for 10 seconds. Plus the perma alacrity from your f3 and natural harmony. And Don't even get me started on the Kalla healing wait till you hear about that. This is Salvation Trait-line. 10/10 HEALING

_ - Devastation trait-line_ Devastation trait line is what we all know best because if you look in the revs forums that's all people play.. and its embarrassing.. Nobody on that page can be diverse and change up there build and think GLINT and SHIRO are the only thing in this game for revenant... As we all know devastation is basically for damage. Basically its a selfish trait line you do 12% extra damage, and siphon. Now you can bring either or I would bring swift termination for the 20% so at 50% and below you're doing 32 extra damage. The big thing about the devastation trait line is that you bring assassins presence to the table that gives your sub group 150+ ferocity..

- Renegade trait-line and finally the renegade trait line. Super strong in the condition build as well.. Renegade brings such a strong presence to pve we should be seeing more renegades by the hour. Firstly lets go over the special f1,2,&3 abilities. F1 brings perma might. F2 Bring tons of aoe dmg(you never use this though). And lastly f3 of which we already explained does alacrity, its not perma but once you use natural harmony you can perma. First off, we have Kalla's fervor which gives you tons of ferocity on top of your assassin's presence(150 ferocity) + kalla's fervor which gives u 250 ferocity(Yes you will be bringing lasting legacy for the might stacking) that's a total of 400 ferocity... That's insane for a healer. You get perma Vigor and Fury from renegade... and you get 33% critical chance increase from just minor traits. Now for the real traits

  • Wrought Iron Will - Evading an attack inspires you with Kalla's Fervor and grants boons to nearby allies. Regeneration and Retaliation
  • All for one - This is where your perma Protection comes in.. 7 seconds per spirit you drop.. and you are constantly dropping your spirits if your rotation is perfect you will NEVER run out of protection for you and your group.
  • Lasting Legacy - Kalla's Fervor you inspire lasts longer and is more potent. Heroic Command grants more might per stack of Kalla's Fervor.. This is where your 25 might stacks come in handy... for 21 seconds u give your group 15 might and heroic command is a 10 second cooldown EASILY be able to perma stack might.

    The renegade skills bring so much diversity, dps, CC, and tons and tons of extra dmg for you and your group... I will not stress this enough but Soulcleave's leeching x5 people brings so much healing and so much dmg to the group on top of everything else ive already talked about. Life siphon damage is 420 and Life siphon healing is 624 that means.. And I can't stress this out enough, this is up for at least 10 seconds with Breakrazors bastion. That means you and your team for 10 seconds are doing 420 dmg PER HIT for 10 secs plus 624 healing per hit plus the regen plus Breakrazors bastion your doing at least 3,774 healing a tick literally, and that's if you hit one attack on 1 target every second... For example (One Skill, One Person) My shackling waves does 6 hits in 1 sec... 6x624=3,744.. the healing the Elite does on Kalla is AMAZING.. PLUS THE DMG 420x6= 2,520 EXTRA DAMAGE plus the base damage from shackling waves which does 6-7k.. and that's one skill. You could be a DH guard drop down all your traps and hit one target 40-60 times in 10 seconds add that to the 420 siphon damage and siphon healing. 40x420=16,800 EXTRA DAMAGE... plus 624x40= 24,960 HEALING????? IN 10 SECONDS PEOPLE?!?!?! And that's one target.. If you were doing a raid for example on gors and you pulled those adds in or if you were stacking on Sabetha and attacking the other adds, plus the champion the damage and healing you're getting is literally no competition. No other healer in this game will give you these stats. Btw if you add 24,960 healing x 5 since 5 people gain Soulcleaves buff you're looking at 20,000 healing times 5 = 100,000 healing in 10 seconds for the whole sub group.. Plus the damage which is 16,000 times 5 = 80,000 extra damage. OBVIOUSLY these are numbers im just throwing up its a medium.. Literally these numbers could be worst depending how good your Venta healer is OR it could actually be even BETTER. Truly the numbers Venta brings to the table is outrageous. Truly a gift to this game and people don't play it due to being blinded by the might stacking and 2 spirits Druid gives to the game.. Which in my opinion is a total mistake

-Rotation and basic's - Basically this build heals A kitten TON and gives perma, alacrity, might, protection, regen and vigor. Good fury too.
Rotation is simple, use F3 and 2 Natural Harmony(3 if alacrity is tight) in Ventari for alacrity, in Kalla use Elite and heal skill only(Sword 2 aswell if youre playing sword), and then spam F1 on cooldown. Gives your chrono a little break from alacrity and gives ur chrono more of a power stance than stacking on so much alacrity.

  • Outro - If I'm asking for anything it's for people to try this build out and experience with it. I use this for everything. I've solo'd dungeons I've used it in fractals and raids. If you have any questions leave them down below. This is just a thread to give more light to a class that's being shadowed by something that truly is less superior in my opinion. And this is also not a bashing session to druid or any other class out there. I've probably left some stuff out so if you have any questions leave them down below! Here is a link that Fennec a youtuber that plays revenant Venta and heres a link to the meta battles build http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Renegade_-_Boon_Support_Healer for the build. Enjoy guys leave any questions or thoughts about the build!!

note - I WILL BE ADDING THIS TO BOTH REVENANT FORUM AND THE PROFESSION FORUMS, THANK YOU!

Comments

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I've been toying with this for a while, thanks for posting. It's great to see someone who has taken this full time and run with it. Good work!

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @aimz.6287 said:
    Okay so let me start off with this isn't a druid bash thread, also WHY AREN'T THERE MORE VENTA HEALERS?

    Because the extra healing isn't needed and druid's offensive support is better, since you already have perma alacrity from chrono.

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:
    Okay so let me start off with this isn't a druid bash thread, also WHY AREN'T THERE MORE VENTA HEALERS?

    Because the extra healing isn't needed and druid's offensive support is better, since you already have perma alacrity from chrono.

    You should have read the rest dude... The renegade skills bring so much diversity, dps, CC, and tons and tons of extra dmg for you and your group... I will not stress this enough but Soulcleave's leeching x5 people brings so much healing and so much dmg to the group on top of everything else ive already talked about. Life siphon damage is 420 and Life siphon healing is 624 that means.. And I can't stress this out enough, this is up for at least 10 seconds with Breakrazors bastion. That means you and your team for 10 seconds are doing 420 dmg PER HIT for 10 secs plus 624 healing per hit plus the regen plus Breakrazors bastion your doing at least 3,774 healing a tick literally, and that's if you hit one attack on 1 target every second... For example (One Skill, One Person) My shackling waves does 6 hits in 1 sec... 6x624=3,744.. the healing the Elite does on Kalla is AMAZING.. PLUS THE DMG 420x6= 2,520 EXTRA DAMAGE plus the base damage from shackling waves which does 6-7k.. and that's one skill. You could be a DH guard drop down all your traps and hit one target 40-60 times in 10 seconds add that to the 420 siphon damage and siphon healing. 40x420=16,800 EXTRA DAMAGE... plus 624x40= 24,960 HEALING????? IN 10 SECONDS PEOPLE?!?!?!

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:
    Okay so let me start off with this isn't a druid bash thread, also WHY AREN'T THERE MORE VENTA HEALERS?

    Because the extra healing isn't needed and druid's offensive support is better, since you already have perma alacrity from chrono.

    Druid doesn’t give 80,000 extra damage in 10 seconds.. I’m sorry it doesn’t. And that’s being friendly.. could actually exceed 80,000 easily. The chrono doesn’t need to use improved alacrity he could actually use danger time and have much more effective dps. Rather than having a Druid do less dps not do that extra 80k dmg in 10 secs and have a chrono go full blast on himself it’s axtually a lot more versatile than a Druid.. not bashing tho just bringing rev to light

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:
    Okay so let me start off with this isn't a druid bash thread, also WHY AREN'T THERE MORE VENTA HEALERS?

    Because the extra healing isn't needed and druid's offensive support is better, since you already have perma alacrity from chrono.

    Druid doesn’t give 80,000 extra damage in 10 seconds.. I’m sorry it doesn’t. And that’s being friendly.. could actually exceed 80,000 easily. The chrono doesn’t need to use improved alacrity he could actually use danger time and have much more effective dps. Rather than having a Druid do less dps not do that extra 80k dmg in 10 secs and have a chrono go full blast on himself it’s axtually a lot more versatile than a Druid.. not bashing tho just bringing rev to light

    The point you are making is that renegade can burst lifesteal and give bonus dmg for a short period of time. The point why druid is always taken is due to spirits which give bonus dmg and bonus condis for long periods of time/are easy refreshable. In ddition to that it can give fast and easy accessible amounts of might. All other boons are covered by chrono.
    If it would be meta it would be used.
    Its not bad and i am not the dude that wants to prevent rev from a healing role because i love ventari as a legend.
    Its just that the more DPS roles you can squeeze into a raid comp the better.
    A spurit stance share soulbeast+firebrand +renegade comp surely can work farely well. Its just that its not meta and ppl just orient on the meta.

    I am all for improvements on Ventahealer or even just generall rev. It needs love and it needs more roles.

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:
    Okay so let me start off with this isn't a druid bash thread, also WHY AREN'T THERE MORE VENTA HEALERS?

    Because the extra healing isn't needed and druid's offensive support is better, since you already have perma alacrity from chrono.

    Druid doesn’t give 80,000 extra damage in 10 seconds.. I’m sorry it doesn’t. And that’s being friendly.. could actually exceed 80,000 easily. The chrono doesn’t need to use improved alacrity he could actually use danger time and have much more effective dps. Rather than having a Druid do less dps not do that extra 80k dmg in 10 secs and have a chrono go full blast on himself it’s axtually a lot more versatile than a Druid.. not bashing tho just bringing rev to light

    Consider the uptimes. If renegade was better dps overall, it would be meta.

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:
    Okay so let me start off with this isn't a druid bash thread, also WHY AREN'T THERE MORE VENTA HEALERS?

    Because the extra healing isn't needed and druid's offensive support is better, since you already have perma alacrity from chrono.

    Druid doesn’t give 80,000 extra damage in 10 seconds.. I’m sorry it doesn’t. And that’s being friendly.. could actually exceed 80,000 easily. The chrono doesn’t need to use improved alacrity he could actually use danger time and have much more effective dps. Rather than having a Druid do less dps not do that extra 80k dmg in 10 secs and have a chrono go full blast on himself it’s axtually a lot more versatile than a Druid.. not bashing tho just bringing rev to light

    Consider the uptimes. If renegade was better dps overall, it would be meta.

    Renegade has better dps than a Druid that’s an absolute fact. You’re only 8-12 seconds without soulcleave... 5% dps from a spirit and 5% condition dmg for a few seconds doesn’t add up to being superior than 150 ferocity and tons more dps. The reason it’s not meta is because people like you won’t let go to Druid being the healer.. it’s molded into people’s brains that they must be the healer and that’s that.. not you don’t need a Druid to have a successful group believe me on that I run fractals everyday and people sometimes say it’s better than Druid sometimes people say nothing at all.. all I’m saying feanor is that be diverse you could have 1 Druid and 1 Venta healer in a raid group and not complain about it because the truth is Venta is an outstanding healer and supporter it gives he necessary boons and necessary damage supporters.

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 19, 2018

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:
    Okay so let me start off with this isn't a druid bash thread, also WHY AREN'T THERE MORE VENTA HEALERS?

    Because the extra healing isn't needed and druid's offensive support is better, since you already have perma alacrity from chrono.

    Druid doesn’t give 80,000 extra damage in 10 seconds.. I’m sorry it doesn’t. And that’s being friendly.. could actually exceed 80,000 easily. The chrono doesn’t need to use improved alacrity he could actually use danger time and have much more effective dps. Rather than having a Druid do less dps not do that extra 80k dmg in 10 secs and have a chrono go full blast on himself it’s axtually a lot more versatile than a Druid.. not bashing tho just bringing rev to light

    Consider the uptimes. If renegade was better dps overall, it would be meta.

    Renegade has better dps than a Druid that’s an absolute fact. You’re only 8-12 seconds without soulcleave... 5% dps from a spirit and 5% condition dmg for a few seconds doesn’t add up to being superior than 150 ferocity and tons more dps. The reason it’s not meta is because people like you won’t let go to Druid being the healer.. it’s molded into people’s brains that they must be the healer and that’s that.. not you don’t need a Druid to have a successful group believe me on that I run fractals everyday and people sometimes say it’s better than Druid sometimes people say nothing at all.. all I’m saying feanor is that be diverse you could have 1 Druid and 1 Venta healer in a raid group and not complain about it because the truth is Venta is an outstanding healer and supporter it gives he necessary boons and necessary damage supporters.

    Actually we use ventari healer in my group sometimes, in place of 1 druid. So it's not that I'm stubborn. It's that there really are no measurable upsides. The personal dps is largely irrelevant, the extra healing - not needed. It's a build you can take for the funsies, much like any other non-druid healer. There's nothing wrong with taking them, but there's no reason for that either. Not when druids are a dime a dozen and you need to pose additional restrictions on your group for replacing one (i.e. get a Soulbeast to take some spirits). It's simple convenience.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 20, 2018

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:
    Okay so let me start off with this isn't a druid bash thread, also WHY AREN'T THERE MORE VENTA HEALERS?

    Because the extra healing isn't needed and druid's offensive support is better, since you already have perma alacrity from chrono.

    Druid doesn’t give 80,000 extra damage in 10 seconds.. I’m sorry it doesn’t. And that’s being friendly.. could actually exceed 80,000 easily. The chrono doesn’t need to use improved alacrity he could actually use danger time and have much more effective dps. Rather than having a Druid do less dps not do that extra 80k dmg in 10 secs and have a chrono go full blast on himself it’s axtually a lot more versatile than a Druid.. not bashing tho just bringing rev to light

    Consider the uptimes. If renegade was better dps overall, it would be meta.

    Renegade has better dps than a Druid that’s an absolute fact. You’re only 8-12 seconds without soulcleave... 5% dps from a spirit and 5% condition dmg for a few seconds doesn’t add up to being superior than 150 ferocity and tons more dps. The reason it’s not meta is because people like you won’t let go to Druid being the healer.. it’s molded into people’s brains that they must be the healer and that’s that.. not you don’t need a Druid to have a successful group believe me on that I run fractals everyday and people sometimes say it’s better than Druid sometimes people say nothing at all.. all I’m saying feanor is that be diverse you could have 1 Druid and 1 Venta healer in a raid group and not complain about it because the truth is Venta is an outstanding healer and supporter it gives he necessary boons and necessary damage supporters.

    Just to add for myself here: lets look at it in a total elitist way.
    (Not that its healthy at all or that i disagree that renegade is a good support)
    BUT: if renegade was better than druid, why on earth would every raid hardcore guild like snowcrows still use druid if it isnt the bettwr choice?
    We talk about ppl that swap tunes depending on the meta and the success of the raid. If rev would be better it would be used for sure.
    As a druid you can do reliable CONSISTENT dps with pets and you can easily apply might with just dipping in and out of CAF and using CA4.
    In addition to that they improve DPS permanently by 5% raw dmg and apply burn via 10 other ppl that help to keep the stacks high.
    Rev has one big disadvantage: They rely on energy and need to use most often upkeeps to do the most dmg, aftwr that they need to wait again to use certain abbilities and are stuck with AA.
    In addition to that: Druid can always heal. They have staff for heal and CA for overhealing.
    Rev has not much healing on staff and needs ventari if things get dire and rev looses tremendous amounts of dmg without the dmg utilities of renegade and needs to maneuver the tablet onto the group, druid can easily just pop staff 3 swap to CA and use 4, pop out and do dmg again and can easily maneuver their heals.

    Druid is easier for sure but not less effective. In contrary it can provide increased precision, increased power and condi dmg, a lot of might and easy heals.

    Ventahealer is not bad, it surely could get more attention, respect and it can replace a druid healer more than so often. Ppl should get more flexible for sure and the meta mindset isnt the most healthy one but its not meta otherwise it would be communicated as such and every group would look for a renegade instead of druid.

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:
    Okay so let me start off with this isn't a druid bash thread, also WHY AREN'T THERE MORE VENTA HEALERS?

    Because the extra healing isn't needed and druid's offensive support is better, since you already have perma alacrity from chrono.

    Druid doesn’t give 80,000 extra damage in 10 seconds.. I’m sorry it doesn’t. And that’s being friendly.. could actually exceed 80,000 easily. The chrono doesn’t need to use improved alacrity he could actually use danger time and have much more effective dps. Rather than having a Druid do less dps not do that extra 80k dmg in 10 secs and have a chrono go full blast on himself it’s axtually a lot more versatile than a Druid.. not bashing tho just bringing rev to light

    Consider the uptimes. If renegade was better dps overall, it would be meta.

    Renegade has better dps than a Druid that’s an absolute fact. You’re only 8-12 seconds without soulcleave... 5% dps from a spirit and 5% condition dmg for a few seconds doesn’t add up to being superior than 150 ferocity and tons more dps. The reason it’s not meta is because people like you won’t let go to Druid being the healer.. it’s molded into people’s brains that they must be the healer and that’s that.. not you don’t need a Druid to have a successful group believe me on that I run fractals everyday and people sometimes say it’s better than Druid sometimes people say nothing at all.. all I’m saying feanor is that be diverse you could have 1 Druid and 1 Venta healer in a raid group and not complain about it because the truth is Venta is an outstanding healer and supporter it gives he necessary boons and necessary damage supporters.

    Just to add for myself here: lets look at it in a total elitist way.
    (Not that its healthy at all or that i disagree that renegade is a good support)
    BUT: if renegade was better than druid, why on earth would every raid hardcore guild like snowcrows still use druid if it isnt the bettwr choice?
    We talk about ppl that swap tunes depending on the meta and the success of the raid. If rev would be better it would be used for sure.
    As a druid you can do reliable CONSISTENT dps with pets and you can easily apply might with just dipping in and out of CAF and using CA4.
    In addition to that they improve DPS permanently by 5% raw dmg and apply burn via 10 other ppl that help to keep the stacks high.
    Rev has one big advantage: They rely on energy and need to use most often upkeeps to do the most dmg, aftwr that they need to wait again to use certain abbilities and are stuck with AA.
    In addition to that: Druid can always heal. They have staff for heal and CA for overhealing.
    Rev has not much healing on staff and needs ventari if things get dire and rev looses tremendous amounts of dmg without the dmg utilities of renegade and needs to maneuver the tablet onto the group, druid can easily just pop staff 3 swap to CA and use 4, pop out and do dmg again and can easily maneuver their heals.

    Druid is easier for sure but not less effective. In contrary it can provide increased precision, increased power and condi dmg, a lot of might and easy heals.

    Ventahealer is not bad, it surely could get more attention, respect and it can replace a druid healer more than so often. Ppl should get more flexible for sure and the meta mindset isnt the most healthy one but its not meta otherwise it would be communicated as such and every group would look for a renegade instead of druid.

    I get what your saying but what I was saying was,venta personal does more dps than a Druid. Druids usually hit 3-5k tops I actually haven’t even seen a Druid hit 6k. A Venta healer can easily hit 6k alone and the spirits venta applies does massive amounts of dps it adds up to the 5% that the Druid does “ constantly” I completely get what your saying and tbh I think major guilds don’t use Druid rev and use Druid Druid is because They don’t have anyone who wants to play it.. people enjoy there classes they play and revs been in the dumps since the release of raids, they had one good run boon support dps and that was it until kalla came along and even then people gave you kitten for it because of one key word and that’s meta, if you were to have 2 venta revs in your 10 man raid group it would be fine. Truly it would be but people are to scared to try it.

  • Nivik.2961Nivik.2961 Member ✭✭

    This is an awesome thread with some really good ba k and forth which is super rare. Thanks for posting man
    Huge fan of support renegade and I’d love to see it get some more respect.

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭

    Np man someone gotta show rev some love otherwise they are gonna sit in the abyss

  • @aimz.6287 said:
    Np man someone gotta show rev some love otherwise they are gonna sit in the abyss

    I hope they do buff ventari, because currently, there's no reason to bring any support other than a single, and In pug cases, a second druid.

    I understand you think Ren elite does a ton, it does, but it doesn't do enough for the u raid to quantify it.

    It's really fun, but it's not optimal. Same for support firebrand.

    The passive buffs from druid is higher, the fact it impacts 10 players is extremely key. As said above you don't really need how much healing a ventari can put out

    Until a rev impacts 10 players, and until they get more buffs other than alacrity (covered already by Chrono) it just won't be meta

    I love rev, I hope devs fix it, but I don't think they have any plans to have anything but druid be a healer

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @aimz.6287 said:
    I get what your saying but what I was saying was,venta personal does more dps than a Druid. Druids usually hit 3-5k tops I actually haven’t even seen a Druid hit 6k. A Venta healer can easily hit 6k alone and the spirits venta applies does massive amounts of dps it adds up to the 5% that the Druid does “ constantly” I completely get what your saying and tbh I think major guilds don’t use Druid rev and use Druid Druid is because They don’t have anyone who wants to play it.. people enjoy there classes they play and revs been in the dumps since the release of raids, they had one good run boon support dps and that was it until kalla came along and even then people gave you kitten for it because of one key word and that’s meta, if you were to have 2 venta revs in your 10 man raid group it would be fine. Truly it would be but people are to scared to try it.

    I think it's a bit different. Raid guilds don't use rev because they don't need anyone to step on the toes of both the druid and the mesmer. To put it simply, they seek optimization and overbuffing isn't something they would want to see. That's why the warrior became bannerslave and gave up phallanx when druid got it's hand of a 10 man wide might stacking. The mesmer give alacrity and celerity which make the revenant ability to grant alacrity unneeded since mesmer and druid are the most cost efficient tank/support duo in the game. You could expect guardian/ revenant to be a good contender for this duo but objectively it fall short in 10 man content. You could even expect scourge to be able to replace druid but scourge fall short in offensive direct support.

    Raid guilds don't seek a strong single individual, they seek the strongest synergy. And revenant, despite all the good points, isn't part of a strong synergy with it's supports builds.

    Never forget that meta stand for "Most Effective Tactic Available", not "Fine to Complet Content Tactic". And players always seek the most effective way to complete the content even if tactics that are fine to complete the content but a little bit less efficient are available.

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:
    I get what your saying but what I was saying was,venta personal does more dps than a Druid. Druids usually hit 3-5k tops I actually haven’t even seen a Druid hit 6k. A Venta healer can easily hit 6k alone and the spirits venta applies does massive amounts of dps it adds up to the 5% that the Druid does “ constantly” I completely get what your saying and tbh I think major guilds don’t use Druid rev and use Druid Druid is because They don’t have anyone who wants to play it.. people enjoy there classes they play and revs been in the dumps since the release of raids, they had one good run boon support dps and that was it until kalla came along and even then people gave you kitten for it because of one key word and that’s meta, if you were to have 2 venta revs in your 10 man raid group it would be fine. Truly it would be but people are to scared to try it.

    I think it's a bit different. Raid guilds don't use rev because they don't need anyone to step on the toes of both the druid and the mesmer. To put it simply, they seek optimization and overbuffing isn't something they would want to see. That's why the warrior became bannerslave and gave up phallanx when druid got it's hand of a 10 man wide might stacking. The mesmer give alacrity and celerity which make the revenant ability to grant alacrity unneeded since mesmer and druid are the most cost efficient tank/support duo in the game. You could expect guardian/ revenant to be a good contender for this duo but objectively it fall short in 10 man content. You could even expect scourge to be able to replace druid but scourge fall short in offensive direct support.

    Raid guilds don't seek a strong single individual, they seek the strongest synergy. And revenant, despite all the good points, isn't part of a strong synergy with it's supports builds.

    Never forget that meta stand for "Most Effective Tactic Available", not "Fine to Complet Content Tactic". And players always seek the most effective way to complete the content even if tactics that are fine to complete the content but a little bit less efficient are available.

    Dude to be honest this is the worst non sense I've read. I'm sorry but, there is no such thing as over buffing. Let me put it simply, more alacrity less problems.. Because sometimes rotations aren't perfect.. sometimes you gotta dodge so it breaks rotation, and that's the simple fact. Or you have to run somewhere and hold a point etc,.. and to have that extra push with the revenant just makes it easier for the chrono so he doesn't have to be a spazzing bot to get out all the alacrity he can for the team. We all make mistakes in raids. Its basically better to have that extra than not.. Always take more than you need if you CAN, because if you come short than your just not helping what-so-ever. What is the revenant overbuffing from druid? It literally just stacks 25 might just as good as druid, I never said it does it better. Plus might only goes to 25? Might gets over stacked having any support class support... It's not hard to stack 25 might on druid or Rev. So yet again your point is terribly INVALID. And that's putting it in the nicest terms. Over buffing in any sense is literally okay? If anything its better. Its like job security....And I never said the rev is going to remove druid from raids or fractals. What im saying is get off the bandwagon and let there be diversity. Rev does it JUST AS GOOD. Deal with it, is what it comes down to. And it goes for healing. Rev absolutely heals more than druid, and over healing is fine as long as the rotation is correct.. Perma Might alacrity vigor fury and protection with a clean rotation of 6-7k dps while buffing ur team ? Whats wrong with that... More heals more alacrity better for the chrono to not go haywire. Like I said more the better. And once again the spirits that revs drop are just as good as druids. Running two druids in a party is silly, period. druid gives buffs to 10 people not 5. So automatically it should have a rev or fb. Period.... Fb FOR quickness because like ive explained sometimes ur rotation gets interrupted and it ruins your quickness/alacrity POSSIBLY. Anyways that's my point on ''over buffing'' all in all no such thing as over buffing... Only job security

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭

    @Malpractice.7850 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:
    Np man someone gotta show rev some love otherwise they are gonna sit in the abyss

    I hope they do buff ventari, because currently, there's no reason to bring any support other than a single, and In pug cases, a second druid.

    I understand you think Ren elite does a ton, it does, but it doesn't do enough for the u raid to quantify it.

    It's really fun, but it's not optimal. Same for support firebrand.

    The passive buffs from druid is higher, the fact it impacts 10 players is extremely key. As said above you don't really need how much healing a ventari can put out

    Until a rev impacts 10 players, and until they get more buffs other than alacrity (covered already by Chrono) it just won't be meta

    I love rev, I hope devs fix it, but I don't think they have any plans to have anything but druid be a healer

    Like ive stated 3 other times at least, you don't need two druids like you've stated. But for pugs you DONT I repeat DONT need two druids its pointless they support 10 people.. If you need another healer FB or Rev IS OPTIMAL.... Why have 2 druids??? If rev out heals druid than why have a healer do less heals for your group. And if the support is exactly the same (boons) than why not have a different class rather than druid.. Having a 2 druids is like brining 2 warriors?????? It makes no sense at all.. Its literally like bringing 2 warriors throw the same banners down.. Bringing a rev or fb its more versatile... more heals from a rev and supports the group just as good as a druid why not bring something different than spamming the group with the same class same build... Its sad people argue this because they are so meta blinded... Ive ran my rev build so many times with so many groups ive even ran a rev rev heal group... PUG... and we did just as fine as 2 druids would …. or 2 fb's or whatever you want to stat. People are just trying to be like the ''PROS'' and think they are good.. People who are DPS get mad that theres not enough support etc.. but they aren't even hitting 25k dps when the pros hit 30k.. That's the difference if you think druids are making SUCH A BIG change in gameplay your wrong.. ESPECIALLY in pugs...

  • @aimz.6287 said:

    Like ive stated 3 other times at least, you don't need two druids like you've stated. But for pugs you DONT I repeat DONT need two druids its pointless they support 10 people.. If you need another healer FB or Rev IS OPTIMAL.... Why have 2 druids??? If rev out heals druid than why have a healer do less heals for your group. And if the support is exactly the same (boons) than why not have a different class rather than druid.. Having a 2 druids is like brining 2 warriors?????? It makes no sense at all.. Its literally like bringing 2 warriors throw the same banners down.. Bringing a rev or fb its more versatile... more heals from a rev and supports the group just as good as a druid why not bring something different than spamming the group with the same class same build... Its sad people argue this because they are so meta blinded... Ive ran my rev build so many times with so many groups ive even ran a rev rev heal group... PUG... and we did just as fine as 2 druids would …. or 2 fb's or whatever you want to stat. People are just trying to be like the ''PROS'' and think they are good.. People who are DPS get mad that theres not enough support etc.. but they aren't even hitting 25k dps when the pros hit 30k.. That's the difference if you think druids are making SUCH A BIG change in gameplay your wrong.. ESPECIALLY in pugs...

    Because youre missing the point.

    One druid should be enough to heal a group, if its not, adding a class that has MORE heals than a druid is wasting healing, a second druid is even over-healing, so, do you need to heal for even more than over-healing?

    Druids dont quite bring enough of their might to really give everyone 25 stacks, so, for pugs, this guarantees 25 stacks. Whichever party the rev isnt in won't have 25 stacks guaranteed.

    Now, we can then go on to notate that your Elite on Kalla only really works well if everyone times their attacks to really start doing their highest-multi hit attacks during that time. Its less effective for condi classes.

    I'm certainly not meta blinded, i'm just telling you: Adding a rev, or any other support, isnt really needed. Yes, you can replace a druid, no its not optimal, but no, it wont make you fail the raid.

    I would also suggest you might want to use a bit better grammar than elipses every 5 words, and honestly, if you're going to come out and say this is a great second option, bring me numbers. Bring me the exact number of might youll guarantee on 5 people, how that compares to your competition (Aura, FB, Druid), why its more impactful than a second druid (in numbers), why its better than another dps, the actual dps increase it brings with the buffs it provides, how much that compares to those other choices.

    Factual numbers. Start crunching.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @aimz.6287 said:

    Dude to be honest this is the worst non sense I've read. I'm sorry but, there is no such thing as over buffing. Let me put it simply, more alacrity less problems.. Because sometimes rotations aren't perfect.. sometimes you gotta dodge so it breaks rotation, and that's the simple fact. Or you have to run somewhere and hold a point etc,.. and to have that extra push with the revenant just makes it easier for the chrono so he doesn't have to be a spazzing bot to get out all the alacrity he can for the team. We all make mistakes in raids. Its basically better to have that extra than not.. Always take more than you need if you CAN, because if you come short than your just not helping what-so-ever. What is the revenant overbuffing from druid? It literally just stacks 25 might just as good as druid, I never said it does it better. Plus might only goes to 25? Might gets over stacked having any support class support... It's not hard to stack 25 might on druid or Rev. So yet again your point is terribly INVALID. And that's putting it in the nicest terms. Over buffing in any sense is literally okay? If anything its better. Its like job security....And I never said the rev is going to remove druid from raids or fractals. What im saying is get off the bandwagon and let there be diversity. Rev does it JUST AS GOOD. Deal with it, is what it comes down to. And it goes for healing. Rev absolutely heals more than druid, and over healing is fine as long as the rotation is correct.. Perma Might alacrity vigor fury and protection with a clean rotation of 6-7k dps while buffing ur team ? Whats wrong with that... More heals more alacrity better for the chrono to not go haywire. Like I said more the better. And once again the spirits that revs drop are just as good as druids. Running two druids in a party is silly, period. druid gives buffs to 10 people not 5. So automatically it should have a rev or fb. Period.... Fb FOR quickness because like ive explained sometimes ur rotation gets interrupted and it ruins your quickness/alacrity POSSIBLY. Anyways that's my point on ''over buffing'' all in all no such thing as over buffing... Only job security

    That's because you don't understand that meta group seek the limit of group play, to maximize the efficiency of the group as a whole. What I explained you is not nonsense, it's the reality of anything "meta". If you can prove by A+B that a group that replace the 2nd druid by any profession lead to better result in optimal conditions (standing golem) then it will become meta, however this mean that it must be tested with a full group.

    Ultimately, in raid you'll reduce seek to reduce heal as long as your group feel at ease with the mechanics. You'll seek to reduce the boon output to the minimum as long as you are able to keep them out with ease. The reason you use 2 druids is that 1 is a bit short for perma 25 might on 10 players. If you replace 1 druid by a revenant, the revenant's group will surely have 25 might but the druid group might have some time when he doesn't so you'll spend ressource on this 2nd group to generate might and globally lose some dps, your efficiency will drop.

    A meta group don't have room for "job security", you just look at what's the best for the group in order to squeeze out every once of dps and not waste a single trait or sigil. You'll always try to keep your investment for support to the minimum. Which in the case of the revenant mean that there is no way that you'd waste a trait on extra healing for example, you'd rather take some CC traits.

    I don't say you are wrong when you say that everyone should be happy to have some level of "security" but security is not efficient. For example I can make a weaver build with a very easy rotation and an insane resilience that will deal more damage in raid than the average try hard meta weaver however, the potential of such build being lower than the meta build, I'll be kicked by any pug group even if I outdps them. This is the hard lessons that you usually learn in guild wars 2, PuG ain't tender and expect you to be the best player possible and use the best meta comp/build possible.

    The reason renegade or FB aren't favored isn't because they are bad, it's just because they are not labeled as the best pick possible. Even if it's hard to accept, people will expect you to be good and play the most efficient thing even if it lead to the fall of the group because most players aren't even close to be good enough to bring out 50% of the efficiency of a meta build in a meta comp. You can think it's unfair and you'll be right to think this, you can protest and advance arguments to justify that a little loss of efficiency can bring tremendous QoL and increase 100 fold the completion rate of PuG group and you'd be 100% right as well. However, there is a mentality deeply ingrained in the PvE end game community that will just make your arguments fall in deaf ears.

    There is plenty of player that oppose the meta, there is even players that show that the meta is silly by challenging themself and completing raid with less players or no armor but the meta is still there strong and only shaken by balance patchs before quickly stabilizing itself again.

    I hope that you understand that I'm not a meta lover that try to enforce this silly thing, I'm just clear on what the meta is in GW2 and the arguments that come against revenant as a replacement for the 2nd druid.

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭

    I say apples you guys say oranges... I get what both of you two are trying to say.. But not seeing my side of this... I honestly feel like you've never even seen a Venta healer yet.. And if you have they must of left a kitten impression on you. I understand that you guys see my point and still think druids the best fit. What im saying is you don't need a druid, like you said. I never said Rev was going to remove druid from meta and become the next best thing to ever exist. What im saying is for example if druids dropped dead from the game and you had to use 2 revs or even 1 rev it would work 100% and ill prove that if I have to. Trust me I understand what you guys are explaining.. It's just annoying that you guys are so struck on being so PERFECT. Snow crows can run 1 druid YAY. Good for them im glad all they do on this game is raid and that's there life. But the pugs the MAJORITY of the game CANNOT run without 2 SUPPORTS. So stop using the minorities as a back up to your facts. When in all reality isn't a fact at all everyone runs two supports

  • Nivik.2961Nivik.2961 Member ✭✭

    I couldn’t agree with the OP more. The fact is that a culture has formed in the PvE community. The culture promotes going on the latest website and just robotically following ideal composition lists. What the OP is saying is that this is not only completely unnecessary but ends up being exclusionary. That is not good for the game no matter which way you slice it. For those of you who have a really deep understanding of the game and a lot of experience, you are not the ones causing issues (IMO) because you understand that the support Rev that signs up for your Pug can get it done in spades. But there is a huge population that is unwilling to be flexible (maybe based on lack of confidence in there own ability) and until people make waves in the forum(like the OP) basically screaming it out, nothing will change. THE INTENTION OF THE DEVELOPER IS TO ABSOLUTELY HAVE ALL SUPPORT CLASSES NOT ONLY VIABLE BUT EXCELL IN THIER OWN UNIQUE WAY. And in my opinion that is definitely the case. But these classes are not being used because of short sightedness and lack of flexibility in the community

  • It may be good on numbers when you are hitthing a immobile golem. Good luck trying to support people when your tablet can't follow people running around.

    It is a flawed design from the beginning - rev has more heals, bad players need more heals, but bad players don't know to stick to the tablet, therefore it becomes useless. Try a pug for Mai Trin.

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭

    @Nivik.2961 said:
    I couldn’t agree with the OP more. The fact is that a culture has formed in the PvE community. The culture promotes going on the latest website and just robotically following ideal composition lists. What the OP is saying is that this is not only completely unnecessary but ends up being exclusionary. That is not good for the game no matter which way you slice it. For those of you who have a really deep understanding of the game and a lot of experience, you are not the ones causing issues (IMO) because you understand that the support Rev that signs up for your Pug can get it done in spades. But there is a huge population that is unwilling to be flexible (maybe based on lack of confidence in there own ability) and until people make waves in the forum(like the OP) basically screaming it out, nothing will change. THE INTENTION OF THE DEVELOPER IS TO ABSOLUTELY HAVE ALL SUPPORT CLASSES NOT ONLY VIABLE BUT EXCELL IN THIER OWN UNIQUE WAY. And in my opinion that is definitely the case. But these classes are not being used because of short sightedness and lack of flexibility in the community

    You said this with such perfection thank you sir!

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭

    @nedlee.5943 said:
    It may be good on numbers when you are hitthing a immobile golem. Good luck trying to support people when your tablet can't follow people running around.

    It is a flawed design from the beginning - rev has more heals, bad players need more heals, but bad players don't know to stick to the tablet, therefore it becomes useless. Try a pug for Mai Trin.

    I do actually pug for mei and guess what people can literally just stack even when everything is coming on top of you.. you can even stand in the electric field and have the bomb hit you and still out heal it while giving the correct booms... you’re sad human for just bashing something you don’t even know what your talking about

  • @nedlee.5943 said:
    It may be good on numbers when you are hitthing a immobile golem. Good luck trying to support people when your tablet can't follow people running around.

    It is a flawed design from the beginning - rev has more heals, bad players need more heals, but bad players don't know to stick to the tablet, therefore it becomes useless. Try a pug for Mai Trin.

    This is a big issue for every healer spec tho, with the exception (mostly) of tempest. Pretty much every healer requires teammates to be well stacked to be most effective. With practice it is possible to do well with the tablet and get large heals off on moving targets. I do wish it had an extra 60 radius, though, to boost it up to 300 instead of 240

  • nedlee.5943nedlee.5943 Member ✭✭
    edited August 21, 2018

    @aimz.6287 said:
    I do actually pug for mei and guess what people can literally just stack even when everything is coming on top of you.. you can even stand in the electric field and have the bomb hit you and still out heal it while giving the correct booms... you’re sad human for just bashing something you don’t even know what your talking about

    It's quite not nice of you to resort to personal attacks out of blue.

    I do actually pug as well. Few days ago one guy said that this group should have a healer, and I told him I was a healer after his death, then he said he didn't know that there was a tablet.

    My still point stands and despite your claim it is you that who don't know what you are talking about, simply from the fact that you did not understand what I said. I didn't say people can stack on the electric floor or anything - I said good players don't need more heals. Bad players do, but they don't know to stack, which makes the more heal point moot. It is true that most healers have simliar problems, but tablet is much more worse with its limited range and mobility.

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭

    @nedlee.5943 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:
    I do actually pug for mei and guess what people can literally just stack even when everything is coming on top of you.. you can even stand in the electric field and have the bomb hit you and still out heal it while giving the correct booms... you’re sad human for just bashing something you don’t even know what your talking about

    It's quite not nice of you to resort to personal attacks out of blue.

    I do actually pug as well. Few days ago one guy said that this group should have a healer, and I told him I was a healer after his death, then he said he didn't know that there was a tablet.

    My still point stands and despite your claim it is you that who don't know what you are talking about, simply from the fact that you did not understand what I said. I didn't say people can stack on the electric floor or anything - I said good players don't need more heals. Bad players do, but they don't know to stack, which makes the more heal point moot. It is true that most healers have simliar problems, but tablet is much more worse with its limited range and mobility.

    I fractal and raid everyday and I move my tablet around just fine... maybe your not fit to be a supportive rev that doesn’t mean the class is kitten? Truly I could time my tablet to be place and have a nice meal as soon as it gets to the person it’s literally not hard to do.. but you do need people to understand they gotta be stacked in a 600 degree radius to keep the team working together..

  • polvere.2805polvere.2805 Member ✭✭✭

    Op you started well, then this thread went to trash. You started bashing people randomly for not joining your religion of "MUH REV IS GOOD, REV >> DRUID"

    Not a single person here said that ren healer is bad, but they explained the various reasons why it is not meta.
    So is it viable ? ABSOLUTELY YES, hell it's even good!
    Is it meta ? mmh no

    Oh btw there is no such thing as "only meta matters mentality" in pugs aside from some unique individuals. If everybody were thinking like that then DH, soulbeast, necro, ele (as it is no more meta on most bosses) would never be accepted in any raid group. Is this a new complottist theory in the raiding scene?

    If you want to prove your point (cause i think that you are exaggerating the ventari ren potential) then come to us with a video with arcdps where you show you hyper duper big dps, with your boon uptime, kalla uptime, etc. etc. (arcpds can track it). Also the number you spouted on druid are totally random, it's hard to take you seriously on the part: REN > Druid

    In the video done by fennec (he is not an average player by any means) it's clearly shown that when concentrating on boons his dps dwindles on the same level of a full harrier druid. It's clearly a video that show the viability and good points of a ventari rev.

    TBH in the end you just sound like one of those naysayers that you sometimes see in big plazas that spout random things about something really majestic. I get that you want to support your favourite class, but like this....meh. It was really hard to read every single one of your post, poorly written and little data.

  • Honestly think this guy just really hates druids! - At the end of they day they both bring whatever they bring to the table. If your group wants a druid bring a druid, if you group doesn't want a druid don't bring a druid bring something unique.

    I'm the pinnacle of bringing random terrible stuff to T4 fractals and raids (Half minstrel/viper reaper), but that's because I'm comfortable on it and can perform with it as well as I need to sure if I brought "meta" i'd pump out much more dmg, and you know if my group want meta I will bring it.

    I understand the point of the post was that you were trying to demonstrate that something new can be as efficient if not more so, but honestly at this point in the post it just seems like you are trying to say that it is 100 times more efficient than the druid and will not listen to any points regarding a counter argument.

    That being said I may try this out in WvW and see what healing I can pump out, wont rival the stab/healing of the firebrand but still could be fun to try anyway.

    Enjoy playing your ventari healer and enjoy pumping out your healing and dps, but don't expect everyone to retire their druids until some really testing and proper evidence has been submitted.

  • To make my point I will separate pve to raids and fractals/dungeons

    Renegade is much better healer then druid (as is tempest and firebrand). But there is a misconception about druid job in raids. Its the exact same as why chrono is tanking and not full knight dragonhunter. Druid is there to provide might, spirits and spotter. If you need a healer then why would you drop one of your dps when druid will lose les damage.
    On some bosses you need very little healing and then druid is a winner there.
    If you need a healer then druid is winner because his unique buffs are more powerful then renegades. Even if druids healing is lower renegade is not an option simply because of might uptime on second subsquad
    If you need 2 healers 2 renegades provide superior healing and also bring enough might for whole squad. With this setup you lose spirits but they can be carried by soulbeast. This composition would be great if there was a fight that needed such absurd amount of healing.
    You can always take 1 druid and 1 another healer (better then 2 healing druids in my oppinion) but then i think renegade lose to firebrand because huge part of his strenghts is wasted (might and alacrity)

    In fractals and dungeons druids usualy run more dps oriented options (and swap to soulbeasts in burstphases) if you run healer at all. But if you require healer zhen renegade might be better for those kind of groups since he can cover might for whole party

  • Ertrak.9506Ertrak.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    Jesus you posted here too..? Do you do nothing other than just bash ppl for disagreeing?

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭

    I’m not bashing people. I’m counter arguing, your counter arguments. I know all of you never said rev is better or bad. And I never said Druid was total kitten. I like Druid. I use to play ranger back in the day.. and it’s not hard to keep 6k a time least in raids you don’t need to be fennec to keep 6k you press 1 skill for 15 might every 8 secs it’s not that hard. The rest is in rotation. The hardest part of being a rev supporter is keeping people closer together when things get iffy and you actually got to move the tablet all over the place but that rarely happens even the real bad groups I’ve plsyed with it’s not that hard to keep them healed. I’m not bashing anyone I just like to counter arguments and I will continue too. Because what’s a thread without counter arguemrnts. Btw I’m not mad in any way I like talking about this. I like to make you guys get involved. The bottom line if a team did wants healer and just 1 in there raid it would be Druid. But why? Because they support 10 people. What supports 10 people? The spirits. Are you sure the spirits are better? Show the proof and I would be satisfied. 5% is merely a HUGE difference I use 20%+5%+7% and it’s like a 1.5k difference.. just a mere 5% isn’t giving SUPERIOR percentages. I would love to see the statistics.

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ertrak.9506 said:
    Jesus you posted here too..? Do you do nothing other than just bash ppl for disagreeing?

    I just tested it btw and sorry to say this to you.. soulcleave does better damage than all the spirits combined(rangers spirits). And I will infact take a video for you if you want proof.. All I did to prove this method was(and I was fair) is I auto attacked up until 80% on an average sized golem with 4 million health.. anyways... I just auto attacked to be fair on the dmg I used a full power set didn’t change any traits everything stayed the same I used 25 might fury etc the typical boons the only thing I changed was removing spotter and the spirits.. I did not use soulcleave obviously when I used the ranger spirits. Sadly it’s quicker to get the golem to 80% than the Druid spirits by a few seconds actually.. just letting you know. And I’ll make a video to prove this. NOW I will say this.. YES SOULCLEAVE only effects 5 people.. and yes Druid spirits effects 10 people. That’s literaly the only down fall. And yes we’ve already exlplained this. It is what it is

  • Ertrak.9506Ertrak.9506 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 21, 2018

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @Ertrak.9506 said:
    Jesus you posted here too..? Do you do nothing other than just bash ppl for disagreeing?

    I just tested it btw and sorry to say this to you.. soulcleave does better damage than all the spirits combined(rangers spirits). And I will infact take a video for you if you want proof.. All I did to prove this method was(and I was fair) is I auto attacked up until 80% on an average sized golem with 4 million health.. anyways... I just auto attacked to be fair on the dmg I used a full power set didn’t change any traits everything stayed the same I used 25 might fury etc the typical boons the only thing I changed was removing spotter and the spirits.. I did not use soulcleave obviously when I used the ranger spirits. Sadly it’s quicker to get the golem to 80% than the Druid spirits by a few seconds actually.. just letting you know. And I’ll make a video to prove this. NOW I will say this.. YES SOULCLEAVE only effects 5 people.. and yes Druid spirits effects 10 people. That’s literaly the only down fall. And yes we’ve already exlplained this. It is what it is

    Thats... literally the reason tho. Nobody wasnt saying this.

    That said since youre only dpsing to 80% you're likely getting a single Soulcleave upkeep. You need to account for the uptime of the skill (approximately 50-60% since you should end up spending slightly longer in kalla than ventari).

    If my assumption is correct, then that will drop significantly. Accounting for uptimes and a realistic subgroup (chrono+3 weavers, assuming banner war is in other sub) soulcleave is approximately 6-800 dps on average across the subgroup (3-4k total).

    (600 damage per lifesteal using as average 2.5 attacks per second (weavers get around 5 attacks per second during burst then around 2 off burst averaging 3.5; this value is reduced further by you and the chrono leading to 2.5 attacks per second per person on average): 2.5 * 600 * 0.5 equates to 750 damage per second per person * 5 ppl = 3750 group dps)

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ertrak.9506 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @Ertrak.9506 said:
    Jesus you posted here too..? Do you do nothing other than just bash ppl for disagreeing?

    I just tested it btw and sorry to say this to you.. soulcleave does better damage than all the spirits combined(rangers spirits). And I will infact take a video for you if you want proof.. All I did to prove this method was(and I was fair) is I auto attacked up until 80% on an average sized golem with 4 million health.. anyways... I just auto attacked to be fair on the dmg I used a full power set didn’t change any traits everything stayed the same I used 25 might fury etc the typical boons the only thing I changed was removing spotter and the spirits.. I did not use soulcleave obviously when I used the ranger spirits. Sadly it’s quicker to get the golem to 80% than the Druid spirits by a few seconds actually.. just letting you know. And I’ll make a video to prove this. NOW I will say this.. YES SOULCLEAVE only effects 5 people.. and yes Druid spirits effects 10 people. That’s literaly the only down fall. And yes we’ve already exlplained this. It is what it is

    Thats... literally the reason tho. Nobody wasnt saying this.

    That said since youre only dpsing to 80% you're likely getting a single Soulcleave upkeep. You need to account for the uptime of the skill (approximately 50-60% since you should end up spending slightly longer in kalla than ventari).

    If my assumption is correct, then that will drop significantly. Accounting for uptimes and a realistic subgroup (chrono+3 weavers, assuming banner war is in other sub) soulcleave is approximately 6-800 dps on average across the subgroup (3-4k total).

    (600 damage per lifesteal using as average 2.5 attacks per second (weavers get around 5 attacks per second during burst then around 2 off burst averaging 3.5; this value is reduced further by you and the chrono leading to 2.5 attacks per second per person on average): 2.5 * 600 * 0.5 equates to 750 damage per second per person * 5 ppl = 3750 group dps)

    Your wrong... the numbers are totally in correct. I’ve literally did 18k dmg in 10 seconds and I used soulcleave twice swapped once.. but your system is flawed because the ranger spirits where up the whole time... when soulcleave wasn’t yet it still did more dps. 18k at least person.. in 10 seconds you hit the golem at least 3 times at least every second due to quickness.. plus other stuff for example a chronos wells and it’s auto attacks. Chronos probably do 60 hits every 10 seconds. Making that an outstanding 25-28k just the chrono now times that by 5 you getting insane number way more than what the spirit rangers hold permantly

  • Ertrak.9506Ertrak.9506 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 21, 2018

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @Ertrak.9506 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @Ertrak.9506 said:
    Jesus you posted here too..? Do you do nothing other than just bash ppl for disagreeing?

    I just tested it btw and sorry to say this to you.. soulcleave does better damage than all the spirits combined(rangers spirits). And I will infact take a video for you if you want proof.. All I did to prove this method was(and I was fair) is I auto attacked up until 80% on an average sized golem with 4 million health.. anyways... I just auto attacked to be fair on the dmg I used a full power set didn’t change any traits everything stayed the same I used 25 might fury etc the typical boons the only thing I changed was removing spotter and the spirits.. I did not use soulcleave obviously when I used the ranger spirits. Sadly it’s quicker to get the golem to 80% than the Druid spirits by a few seconds actually.. just letting you know. And I’ll make a video to prove this. NOW I will say this.. YES SOULCLEAVE only effects 5 people.. and yes Druid spirits effects 10 people. That’s literaly the only down fall. And yes we’ve already exlplained this. It is what it is

    Thats... literally the reason tho. Nobody wasnt saying this.

    That said since youre only dpsing to 80% you're likely getting a single Soulcleave upkeep. You need to account for the uptime of the skill (approximately 50-60% since you should end up spending slightly longer in kalla than ventari).

    If my assumption is correct, then that will drop significantly. Accounting for uptimes and a realistic subgroup (chrono+3 weavers, assuming banner war is in other sub) soulcleave is approximately 6-800 dps on average across the subgroup (3-4k total).

    (600 damage per lifesteal using as average 2.5 attacks per second (weavers get around 5 attacks per second during burst then around 2 off burst averaging 3.5; this value is reduced further by you and the chrono leading to 2.5 attacks per second per person on average): 2.5 * 600 * 0.5 equates to 750 damage per second per person * 5 ppl = 3750 group dps)

    Your wrong... the numbers are totally in correct. I’ve literally did 18k dmg in 10 seconds and I used soulcleave twice swapped once.. but your system is flawed because the ranger spirits where up the whole time... when soulcleave wasn’t yet it still did more dps. 18k at least person.. in 10 seconds you hit the golem at least 3 times at least every second due to quickness.. plus other stuff for example a chronos wells and it’s auto attacks. Chronos probably do 60 hits every 10 seconds. Making that an outstanding 25-28k just the chrono now times that by 5 you getting insane number way more than what the spirit rangers hold permantly

    I would like a video to analyze then if you dont mind, since you mentioned you'd be willing to. For accuracy, i would need to see from 100-0% not just 80%.

    To confirm were talking 4m hp golem with realistic buff/debuffs?

    Also you can't count chrono clones due to the target cap on soul cleave. Boon chronos are mostly auto attacking.

    If possible, a dps.report log will help tremendously to get an accurate display of numbers.

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ertrak.9506 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @Ertrak.9506 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @Ertrak.9506 said:
    Jesus you posted here too..? Do you do nothing other than just bash ppl for disagreeing?

    I just tested it btw and sorry to say this to you.. soulcleave does better damage than all the spirits combined(rangers spirits). And I will infact take a video for you if you want proof.. All I did to prove this method was(and I was fair) is I auto attacked up until 80% on an average sized golem with 4 million health.. anyways... I just auto attacked to be fair on the dmg I used a full power set didn’t change any traits everything stayed the same I used 25 might fury etc the typical boons the only thing I changed was removing spotter and the spirits.. I did not use soulcleave obviously when I used the ranger spirits. Sadly it’s quicker to get the golem to 80% than the Druid spirits by a few seconds actually.. just letting you know. And I’ll make a video to prove this. NOW I will say this.. YES SOULCLEAVE only effects 5 people.. and yes Druid spirits effects 10 people. That’s literaly the only down fall. And yes we’ve already exlplained this. It is what it is

    Thats... literally the reason tho. Nobody wasnt saying this.

    That said since youre only dpsing to 80% you're likely getting a single Soulcleave upkeep. You need to account for the uptime of the skill (approximately 50-60% since you should end up spending slightly longer in kalla than ventari).

    If my assumption is correct, then that will drop significantly. Accounting for uptimes and a realistic subgroup (chrono+3 weavers, assuming banner war is in other sub) soulcleave is approximately 6-800 dps on average across the subgroup (3-4k total).

    (600 damage per lifesteal using as average 2.5 attacks per second (weavers get around 5 attacks per second during burst then around 2 off burst averaging 3.5; this value is reduced further by you and the chrono leading to 2.5 attacks per second per person on average): 2.5 * 600 * 0.5 equates to 750 damage per second per person * 5 ppl = 3750 group dps)

    Your wrong... the numbers are totally in correct. I’ve literally did 18k dmg in 10 seconds and I used soulcleave twice swapped once.. but your system is flawed because the ranger spirits where up the whole time... when soulcleave wasn’t yet it still did more dps. 18k at least person.. in 10 seconds you hit the golem at least 3 times at least every second due to quickness.. plus other stuff for example a chronos wells and it’s auto attacks. Chronos probably do 60 hits every 10 seconds. Making that an outstanding 25-28k just the chrono now times that by 5 you getting insane number way more than what the spirit rangers hold permantly

    I would like a video to analyze then if you dont mind, since you mentioned you'd be willing to. For accuracy, i would need to see from 100-0% not just 80%.

    To confirm were talking 4m hp golem with realistic buff/debuffs?

    Also you can't count chrono clones due to the target cap on soul cleave. Boon chronos are mostly auto attacking.

    If possible, a dps.report log will help tremendously to get an accurate display of numbers.

    Soulcleave doesn’t work on clones I don’t think? Maybe it does never tested it with a friend. I was talking about the wells 3 wells hitting while the Mesmer is hitting that’s like easily 6-8 hits a second and that’s already 3k a second just from soulcleave and if the illusions count as hits for the Mesmer that’s even more. Anyways I’ll try and make a video if not. You can literally do it yourself since you said you’ve played venta before it’s not hard all I did was use basic buffs the normal and just added warrior buffs and then used soulcleave swapped to ventari and then swapped again and that got me to 80%. With the ranger spirits I used same buff same everything as I did I just added the spirits and it did less dmg over time. I got the golem to 80% quicker than the Druid spirits did. And also I’ll test doing a full 100% I was busy and had to get off but I will because I’m curious myself

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 21, 2018

    @Ertrak.9506 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @Ertrak.9506 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @Ertrak.9506 said:
    Jesus you posted here too..? Do you do nothing other than just bash ppl for disagreeing?

    I just tested it btw and sorry to say this to you.. soulcleave does better damage than all the spirits combined(rangers spirits). And I will infact take a video for you if you want proof.. All I did to prove this method was(and I was fair) is I auto attacked up until 80% on an average sized golem with 4 million health.. anyways... I just auto attacked to be fair on the dmg I used a full power set didn’t change any traits everything stayed the same I used 25 might fury etc the typical boons the only thing I changed was removing spotter and the spirits.. I did not use soulcleave obviously when I used the ranger spirits. Sadly it’s quicker to get the golem to 80% than the Druid spirits by a few seconds actually.. just letting you know. And I’ll make a video to prove this. NOW I will say this.. YES SOULCLEAVE only effects 5 people.. and yes Druid spirits effects 10 people. That’s literaly the only down fall. And yes we’ve already exlplained this. It is what it is

    Thats... literally the reason tho. Nobody wasnt saying this.

    That said since youre only dpsing to 80% you're likely getting a single Soulcleave upkeep. You need to account for the uptime of the skill (approximately 50-60% since you should end up spending slightly longer in kalla than ventari).

    If my assumption is correct, then that will drop significantly. Accounting for uptimes and a realistic subgroup (chrono+3 weavers, assuming banner war is in other sub) soulcleave is approximately 6-800 dps on average across the subgroup (3-4k total).

    (600 damage per lifesteal using as average 2.5 attacks per second (weavers get around 5 attacks per second during burst then around 2 off burst averaging 3.5; this value is reduced further by you and the chrono leading to 2.5 attacks per second per person on average): 2.5 * 600 * 0.5 equates to 750 damage per second per person * 5 ppl = 3750 group dps)

    Your wrong... the numbers are totally in correct. I’ve literally did 18k dmg in 10 seconds and I used soulcleave twice swapped once.. but your system is flawed because the ranger spirits where up the whole time... when soulcleave wasn’t yet it still did more dps. 18k at least person.. in 10 seconds you hit the golem at least 3 times at least every second due to quickness.. plus other stuff for example a chronos wells and it’s auto attacks. Chronos probably do 60 hits every 10 seconds. Making that an outstanding 25-28k just the chrono now times that by 5 you getting insane number way more than what the spirit rangers hold permantly

    I would like a video to analyze then if you dont mind, since you mentioned you'd be willing to. For accuracy, i would need to see from 100-0% not just 80%.

    To confirm were talking 4m hp golem with realistic buff/debuffs?

    Also you can't count chrono clones due to the target cap on soul cleave. Boon chronos are mostly auto attacking.

    If possible, a dps.report log will help tremendously to get an accurate display of numbers.

    Okay so I did it again.. and I don't know how to upload videos on this thing.. I actually don't think you can... But I just did it with my friend. He did 36.3k dps in 10 secs with soulcleave.. That's insane dmg right there.. and did a great 34k on his engi… Then we did his burst again with druid spirits and did 34.3k dmg with the spirits. Over time it panned out to be the same dps overall. In the end druid and Venta spirits do the same amount of dmg. The only thing that druid got the upper hand on is its 10 man spirit buff.. If they buffed soulCleave summit up to 10 allies that would be unreal.. 35k dps in 10s and that's one person. 35,000x5 is 175,000.. In 10 seconds that's a really big pick me up skill.. Periodically over time your lookin at, at least 1 mil-2mil extra dps from soulcleave from 5 players easily through out the boss. And that's just a medium for soulcleave could be worst COULD BE BETTER..

  • Ertrak.9506Ertrak.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @Ertrak.9506 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @Ertrak.9506 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @Ertrak.9506 said:
    Jesus you posted here too..? Do you do nothing other than just bash ppl for disagreeing?

    I just tested it btw and sorry to say this to you.. soulcleave does better damage than all the spirits combined(rangers spirits). And I will infact take a video for you if you want proof.. All I did to prove this method was(and I was fair) is I auto attacked up until 80% on an average sized golem with 4 million health.. anyways... I just auto attacked to be fair on the dmg I used a full power set didn’t change any traits everything stayed the same I used 25 might fury etc the typical boons the only thing I changed was removing spotter and the spirits.. I did not use soulcleave obviously when I used the ranger spirits. Sadly it’s quicker to get the golem to 80% than the Druid spirits by a few seconds actually.. just letting you know. And I’ll make a video to prove this. NOW I will say this.. YES SOULCLEAVE only effects 5 people.. and yes Druid spirits effects 10 people. That’s literaly the only down fall. And yes we’ve already exlplained this. It is what it is

    Thats... literally the reason tho. Nobody wasnt saying this.

    That said since youre only dpsing to 80% you're likely getting a single Soulcleave upkeep. You need to account for the uptime of the skill (approximately 50-60% since you should end up spending slightly longer in kalla than ventari).

    If my assumption is correct, then that will drop significantly. Accounting for uptimes and a realistic subgroup (chrono+3 weavers, assuming banner war is in other sub) soulcleave is approximately 6-800 dps on average across the subgroup (3-4k total).

    (600 damage per lifesteal using as average 2.5 attacks per second (weavers get around 5 attacks per second during burst then around 2 off burst averaging 3.5; this value is reduced further by you and the chrono leading to 2.5 attacks per second per person on average): 2.5 * 600 * 0.5 equates to 750 damage per second per person * 5 ppl = 3750 group dps)

    Your wrong... the numbers are totally in correct. I’ve literally did 18k dmg in 10 seconds and I used soulcleave twice swapped once.. but your system is flawed because the ranger spirits where up the whole time... when soulcleave wasn’t yet it still did more dps. 18k at least person.. in 10 seconds you hit the golem at least 3 times at least every second due to quickness.. plus other stuff for example a chronos wells and it’s auto attacks. Chronos probably do 60 hits every 10 seconds. Making that an outstanding 25-28k just the chrono now times that by 5 you getting insane number way more than what the spirit rangers hold permantly

    I would like a video to analyze then if you dont mind, since you mentioned you'd be willing to. For accuracy, i would need to see from 100-0% not just 80%.

    To confirm were talking 4m hp golem with realistic buff/debuffs?

    Also you can't count chrono clones due to the target cap on soul cleave. Boon chronos are mostly auto attacking.

    If possible, a dps.report log will help tremendously to get an accurate display of numbers.

    Okay so I did it again.. and I don't know how to upload videos on this thing.. I actually don't think you can... But I just did it with my friend. He did 36.3k dps in 10 secs with soulcleave.. That's insane dmg right there.. and did a great 34k on his engi… Then we did his burst again with druid spirits and did 34.3k dmg with the spirits. Over time it panned out to be the same dps overall. In the end druid and Venta spirits do the same amount of dmg. The only thing that druid got the upper hand on is its 10 man spirit buff.. If they buffed soulCleave summit up to 10 allies that would be unreal.. 35k dps in 10s and that's one person. 35,000x5 is 175,000.. In 10 seconds that's a really big pick me up skill.. Periodically over time your lookin at, at least 1 mil-2mil extra dps from soulcleave from 5 players easily through out the boss. And that's just a medium for soulcleave could be worst COULD BE BETTER..

    Do you have arcdps and a logged file? you could upload that file to dps.report or even gw2 raidar so we can count the number of soulcleave procs over the course of combat, to get a numerical value of attacks per second. Nvm arcdps doesn't track lifesteal procs.

    Im sorry but the 10-second evaluation isn't a large enough sample for an accurate depiction. Rng and uptime percentage plays a massive factor (im assuming you did multiple tests with soulcleave, and multiple tests without soulcleave, and took the average of each to eliminate outlier data). You need full 4m-hp-kills. Real bosses aren't killed in 10 seconds, they take minutes.

    i would really like to get some numerical data on soulcleave lifesteal dps. i'll have to do some data collection when i get the chance to get on.

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ertrak.9506 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @Ertrak.9506 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @Ertrak.9506 said:

    @aimz.6287 said:

    @Ertrak.9506 said:
    Jesus you posted here too..? Do you do nothing other than just bash ppl for disagreeing?

    I just tested it btw and sorry to say this to you.. soulcleave does better damage than all the spirits combined(rangers spirits). And I will infact take a video for you if you want proof.. All I did to prove this method was(and I was fair) is I auto attacked up until 80% on an average sized golem with 4 million health.. anyways... I just auto attacked to be fair on the dmg I used a full power set didn’t change any traits everything stayed the same I used 25 might fury etc the typical boons the only thing I changed was removing spotter and the spirits.. I did not use soulcleave obviously when I used the ranger spirits. Sadly it’s quicker to get the golem to 80% than the Druid spirits by a few seconds actually.. just letting you know. And I’ll make a video to prove this. NOW I will say this.. YES SOULCLEAVE only effects 5 people.. and yes Druid spirits effects 10 people. That’s literaly the only down fall. And yes we’ve already exlplained this. It is what it is

    Thats... literally the reason tho. Nobody wasnt saying this.

    That said since youre only dpsing to 80% you're likely getting a single Soulcleave upkeep. You need to account for the uptime of the skill (approximately 50-60% since you should end up spending slightly longer in kalla than ventari).

    If my assumption is correct, then that will drop significantly. Accounting for uptimes and a realistic subgroup (chrono+3 weavers, assuming banner war is in other sub) soulcleave is approximately 6-800 dps on average across the subgroup (3-4k total).

    (600 damage per lifesteal using as average 2.5 attacks per second (weavers get around 5 attacks per second during burst then around 2 off burst averaging 3.5; this value is reduced further by you and the chrono leading to 2.5 attacks per second per person on average): 2.5 * 600 * 0.5 equates to 750 damage per second per person * 5 ppl = 3750 group dps)

    Your wrong... the numbers are totally in correct. I’ve literally did 18k dmg in 10 seconds and I used soulcleave twice swapped once.. but your system is flawed because the ranger spirits where up the whole time... when soulcleave wasn’t yet it still did more dps. 18k at least person.. in 10 seconds you hit the golem at least 3 times at least every second due to quickness.. plus other stuff for example a chronos wells and it’s auto attacks. Chronos probably do 60 hits every 10 seconds. Making that an outstanding 25-28k just the chrono now times that by 5 you getting insane number way more than what the spirit rangers hold permantly

    I would like a video to analyze then if you dont mind, since you mentioned you'd be willing to. For accuracy, i would need to see from 100-0% not just 80%.

    To confirm were talking 4m hp golem with realistic buff/debuffs?

    Also you can't count chrono clones due to the target cap on soul cleave. Boon chronos are mostly auto attacking.

    If possible, a dps.report log will help tremendously to get an accurate display of numbers.

    Okay so I did it again.. and I don't know how to upload videos on this thing.. I actually don't think you can... But I just did it with my friend. He did 36.3k dps in 10 secs with soulcleave.. That's insane dmg right there.. and did a great 34k on his engi… Then we did his burst again with druid spirits and did 34.3k dmg with the spirits. Over time it panned out to be the same dps overall. In the end druid and Venta spirits do the same amount of dmg. The only thing that druid got the upper hand on is its 10 man spirit buff.. If they buffed soulCleave summit up to 10 allies that would be unreal.. 35k dps in 10s and that's one person. 35,000x5 is 175,000.. In 10 seconds that's a really big pick me up skill.. Periodically over time your lookin at, at least 1 mil-2mil extra dps from soulcleave from 5 players easily through out the boss. And that's just a medium for soulcleave could be worst COULD BE BETTER..

    Do you have arcdps and a logged file? you could upload that file to dps.report or even gw2 raidar so we can count the number of soulcleave procs over the course of combat, to get a numerical value of attacks per second. Nvm arcdps doesn't track lifesteal procs.

    Im sorry but the 10-second evaluation isn't a large enough sample for an accurate depiction. Rng and uptime percentage plays a massive factor (im assuming you did multiple tests with soulcleave, and multiple tests without soulcleave, and took the average of each to eliminate outlier data). You need full 4m-hp-kills. Real bosses aren't killed in 10 seconds, they take minutes.

    i would really like to get some numerical data on soulcleave lifesteal dps. i'll have to do some data collection when i get the chance to get on.

    Where are you getting 10 seconds from? Im saying just in the one set of 10 secs I had it up... There are more than 10 seconds we did it a few times on 1 golem. Obviously it takes longer to kill a golem with 1 person. But you get the point 36.3K JUST ONE TIME USING soulcleave which took roughly around 10 seconds? Stop saying 10 seconds. If you wanna see it done.. I added you on gw2. And ill show you. Im not gonna complicate myself with trying to get a video or picture just for this when we both see our gamer tags on here and we can just add each other and watch us do it personally..

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So herald gets a rework. Dunno what you are doing but i grab some popcorn next tuesday evening and read some patchnotes. Mayve herald will get some new and fresh raid position. Maybe some new alt comp comming up.

  • aimz.6287aimz.6287 Member ✭✭✭

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    So herald gets a rework. Dunno what you are doing but i grab some popcorn next tuesday evening and read some patchnotes. Mayve herald will get some new and fresh raid position. Maybe some new alt comp comming up.

    Hopefully my friend

  • How do you give out perma vigor on this build?

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