Condi vs Power damage in PvP/WvW — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Condi vs Power damage in PvP/WvW

coro.3176coro.3176 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited August 21, 2018 in Aug 2018: Systems Team

In PvP/WvW, it seems like condi damage builds - excluding thief/mirage/scourge - have to work really hard for not a lot of payoff.

  • The skills are generally shorter range, longer cooldown, and less spammable (condi mirage/scourge/thief are exceptions and not coincidentally, the only viable condi builds at the moment)
  • They are easily cleansed. It is really demoralizing to land a perfect close-range Blowtorch only for it to be instantly cleansed before I can get cover condi on top of it, or for all the condi to be cleansed anyway even if I can. I feel like I have to land my risky close range burst 4 times to kill someone whereas a power build only has to land it once.
  • Support builds can make it impossible to land any condition damage at all due to the aoe cleanse
  • They take longer to tick, which is a disadvantage in PvP when you want to clear the node as fast as possible to secure the capture.
  • In PvP specifically, tanky condi stats like dire/trailblazer are not available, so condi builds are as vulnerable as power, but without the burst to match.

I feel like people have given up on all condi builds that aren't (IMO, fairly cheesy) mirage/thief/scourge. Are there any plans to address the issues here?

Comments

  • coro.3176coro.3176 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 21, 2018

    Just to add:

    It feels like the Great Condi Nerf Patch (Dec 2017) fixed a lot of the problem with condi being burst damage, which is fine, but it did not also reduce cleanse on all classes. The result was a massive nerf to all condi builds that cannot consistently reapply conditions. If condi stacks are halved, but cleanse remains the same, the result is a 50% nerf..

    Was this intended? Are there any plans for non-spammy condition builds to be viable again (eg. condi engi, condi ranger, condi revenant etc.)?

  • coro.3176coro.3176 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Notice me senpai!

  • Etheri.5406Etheri.5406 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 22, 2018

    We had condi builds followed by more cleanse followed by condi cleanse followed by cleanse followed by ???

    Fun how powercreep can ruin the game yet you're against nerfing things to bring others into viability as posted in other threads.

    There are several condi-based builds which still work fine. Condi guard/dh/fb is one-dimensional but scales insanely well with numbers on reflect builds and has good spike for low-man roaming. Condi rev is gated by the lack of melee-meta more than by a lack of raw strength, remove WoD from the game and we'll see how good / bad it is. Condi warrior was a thing before berzerker got destroyed for all PvP modes right before they added spellbreaker, altho it's only because the targetcap on longbow F1 is extremely wonky so it scales with numbers better than power. Berzerker in pvp / wvw is a balance issue in itself. I agree at the moment warrior lacks a viable condi build :trollface:

    Ele is fine roaming with condi. Not amazing but pretty good duellist powers and burst. Mesmer fine on condi. Scourge fine on condi.

    So the issue is... condi ranger and condi engi? Maybe condi ele / guard? Frankly guard is fine but suffers from a lack of cover conditions.

  • We need a cap on the number of Conditions players can put on a player in wvw. I had a Mesmer put 38 stacks of confusion me like it was nothing. I went to cleanse it and killed myself.

  • coro.3176coro.3176 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Etheri.5406 said:
    We had condi builds followed by more cleanse followed by condi cleanse followed by cleanse followed by ???

    followed by the condi nerf patch where most of the stacks were reduced (up to half). The condi cleanse was not reduced to match, so it effectively nerfed condi by up to 50% on the affected classes (pretty much everything except mirage/scourge/thief).

    Fun how powercreep can ruin the game yet you're against nerfing things to bring others into viability as posted in other threads.

    Uh no? I am generally for nerfing things down to core-class (~2015-ish) power levels.

    There are several condi-based builds which still work fine.

    I disagree that those builds work fine. They can't make damage stick in any fight with support classes. They just don't reapply condi fast enough to overcome the amount of cleanse going around.

    Scourge works in larger fights because of huge corrupt aoe. Mirage + Thief work roaming because of evade chaining.

    That's about it. The rest have to outplay their opponents by a factor of 4.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 22, 2018

    For sPvP, all condi builds except mirage, scourge and thief are dead. Some of them may work in isolation, but in a team setting, they do not, at all.

    This also is a significant issue in PvE. Outside of fighting elite or stronger mobs, power builds are so much better. It used to be close call on veteran mobs between power and condi builds. Not anymore.

  • Etheri.5406Etheri.5406 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @coro.3176 said:

    @Etheri.5406 said:
    We had condi builds followed by more cleanse followed by condi cleanse followed by cleanse followed by ???

    followed by the condi nerf patch where most of the stacks were reduced (up to half). The condi cleanse was not reduced to match, so it effectively nerfed condi by up to 50% on the affected classes (pretty much everything except mirage/scourge/thief).

    Fun how powercreep can ruin the game yet you're against nerfing things to bring others into viability as posted in other threads.

    Uh no? I am generally for nerfing things down to core-class (~2015-ish) power levels.

    There are several condi-based builds which still work fine.

    I disagree that those builds work fine. They can't make damage stick in any fight with support classes. They just don't reapply condi fast enough to overcome the amount of cleanse going around.

    Scourge works in larger fights because of huge corrupt aoe. Mirage + Thief work roaming because of evade chaining.

    That's about it. The rest have to outplay their opponents by a factor of 4.

    Burn guard scales so well with numbers it doesn't need to outplay its opponents. Besides, in WvW opponents outplay themselves. Burn guard is stronger as a DPS build for large scale than any power-based guard build.

    Everything else I agree is more power-focussed at the moment. Some condi classes do struggle with powercreep, many of them also just struggle with finding a (good) place in the current meta.

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.