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Concerns about Elementalist


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@maddoctor.2738 said:

Fire
- strong for pve and staff, useless everywhere else.

This isn't true anymore because Fire is great for Sword Weaver too, both condition and power build.

Grandmaster:
  • Persisting flames (unchanged)
  • Pyromancer's puissance: change to gain might (5-8 stacks, 10-15 sec duration) and recharge fire attunement on kill.
  • Burning ashes reworked into active cleanse on burning enemy/attacking a burned enemy (or halved cooldown from current trait).

Pyromancer's Puissance is a trait that works very well as it is now on Sword, due to fire skills on sword being better than Air skills, you camp sword and get 21-22 stacks of might on yourself without boon duration gear. The reason this trait is weak is because only Sword and Staff have good Fire auto attacks, for Dagger and Scepter it's better to swap as quickly as possible to another attunement (in PVE Air - or Earth for condition builds), Allowing you to get back to Fire when you kill something won't fix the Fire skills on those weapons being lackluster, staff users will still use Persisting Flames anyway. And the most important problem in PVE is that someone else (a Druid) will give you your 25 stacks of Might, making might generation useless. Now if Pyromancer's Puissance could be reliably combined with Heat Sync for 25-stack might uptime then we'd get a good Might generation Alternative.

As for PVP, I think the nature of Elementalist (low health/armor) means relying on defensive trait lines, meaning Fire will always be a secondary option unfortunately

Imo Pyromancer's puissance currently is just inferior to Persisting Flames in PvE even when you are solo. The might generation is too slow thanks to all the slow attacks Fire have and it also generates less might compared to WvW/PvP version. It's actually hard to get to 25 might because enemies are either long dead (trash mobs in open world) before that happens or you are forced to play defensively by kiting and swapping to other attunements. I can get my might a lot quicker from sigil of strength and blasting fire fields, abeilt usually only to 10~15 stacks, but most importantly, Fury for critc is just that much better on power builds, especially berserkers gear where it has low critic chance but high critc damage.

During the bugged MS week in WvW I was messing around with Persisting Flames + Air trait line for perma fury instead of the standard Pyromancer's Puissance because who cares about some shitty 6~8k normal damage from 25 might when you can crtic for 15~20k.

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PVE point, I'm agree with many of the ideas of this post (auras, conjures, barriers, ...). My two cents:

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Spvp bit of solo WvwI had played core ele, full zerker(s/f) as that was the only way to deal useful amount of damage. The only way I could be useful was if I outplayed my oponent. Which is fine, but then again when I met warrior it often felt like single smallest mistake was me gettng 2 shotted (if not 1 shoted) while they could fuck up alot. That was dishartening. But not as much as playing vs goodany Mesmer or decent thieves(to lesser extend) - insta unavoidable damage usually enough to kill me off, can not out play something that I have no counter play for. Can not counter play something that have no foreshadowing at all.

To sum up core ele expirience:

  • had to go full zerker to do damage - while other classes did similar or better damage as non zerkers
  • 11k hp with limited survivability options that often have to be used offensively - still no counter play for insta kill from mesmers
  • it is always uphill battle against pretty much anything
  • not enough control and/or damage to kill most brawlers that still will both out sustain and out damage me
  • not enough control and/or mobility to kill most classes that do not wish to fight me

that leaves us with what ? Can't solo brawl on point, can't really +1 all that effectively as mobility is limited, can't sustain long team fight vs team with half a brain. The only thing that was actually good was - wait a bit for fight to be underway -> walk in and nuke somebody down hoping they die before realizing what hit them. In the end it was mostly fun but it always felt like I had to give 200% of what others did to do the same and even that was not enough vs certain classes(mesmers mostly)A lot of that is old ele design, big part of which are long cds - excuse that we have twice amount of skills is pathetic seeing how half of skills are useless or very situational

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The identity of what the elementalist was back in the day (jack of all trades/glass cannon damage dealer) is no longer a relevant option with the constant changes with other classes received along with the new elite specs that have put other classes in specific niches (healer/boon support) while giving the elementalists and their elite specs to just float around trying to find out what they are, and what they provide. They were only used in group play for their aoe/damage, however, lost their only "niche" from being damage dealer to being completely irrelevant and out classed in practically every aspect especially in pve. Why bring an elementalist when you can bring a class that can do it better, and easier to play?

Elementalist when I first started playing it was a very difficult class to play, and the learning curve was definitely not recommended for beginners, just look up any of the youtube videos that recommends classes for beginners, however, I learned to play and play well to achieve the damage that was promised me when I master this unique class. With that being said, no new player would ever want to play a class that was difficult to play only to achieve average potential in all aspects of game modes, especially pve which when you are a new player that is the first thing you are introduced to.

I'm a bit confused as to why elementalists got such hard nerfs especially staff when it was clearly apparent that the other classes just needed buffs. The changes to meteor has impacted the staff builds drastically making core, tempest, and weavers obsolete. Like, in what alternate universe are players punished for channeling the full cast time of the meteor skill? Channeling the full skill is a dps loss which to me makes absolutely no sense.

With a serious identity crisis, the not so rewarding high learning curve for mediocre satisfaction, and unwanted nerfs leaves you with a taste of dissatisfaction and and an after taste of disappointment.

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Elementalists summon the powers of earth, air, fire, and water and command them at will. They can inflict more damage in a single strike than any other profession. Earth Magic summons quakes and eruptions, encases enemies in stone, or protects allies. Air Magic harnesses the power of tempests to strike foes down with lightning or enable allies to run like the wind. Fire Magic manifests flames, fireballs, molten lava, and even meteors to burn enemies to a crisp. Water Magic conjures mist and ice to slow enemy movement and attacks, blur vision, protect allies against magic, and inflict cold damage on enemies. Elementalists have access to Energy regenerating skills, and when chosen as a primary character, they can increase their maximum Energy over time. The wise Elementalist avoids becoming surrounded, but keeps a local area-of-effect spell on hand just in case.

— The Guild Wars Manuscripts

The master of arcane lore and magical aptitude, the Elementalist calls upon the power of fire, earth, air and water to obliterate enemies.

— in-game description

Elementalists are multifaceted spellcasters who channel elemental forces, making fire, air, earth, and water do their bidding. What they lack in physical toughness, they make up for in versatility and the ability to inflict massive damage.

__ Guild Wars 2 website

This is just a reminder of what the original vision of the elementalist was. It will obviously guide my own opinion on the class as I will focus on a PVE standpoint.Elementalist is the mage archetype in the Guild Wars universe, it is frail by design but also deadly. The recent nerfs kept the elementalist frail but also made him not so deadly anymore, they also revealed that "damage dealer" was the only thing the elementalist was competitive at as the other role, support, is monopolized by the druid that brings everything a party needs.Elementalist is advertised as a damage dealer and I envision the elementalist as a damage dealer therefore my opinion will focus mostly on this matter.

I. CORE ELEMENTALIST

Core elementalist should not be nerfed because of weaver, the e-spec needed tuning on its own, the problem was not coming from the core traitlines that need more care and love before all else. I'd like to see core elementalist being a competitive option, the same way core guardian is. Core elementalist is all about this versatility, focusing mostly on damage but having easy access to supportive skill "just in case".Therefore Lava Font and Meteor shower nerfs should be tuned down.Now on core skills, staff and aoe.Elementalist should be the king/queen of aoe dmg. Meteor Sprinkles (check out Mela's vid, worth it) and Glyph of Sprinkles make no sense. I can understand that it was way too much dmg on big hitboxes but Weaver was at fault. Anet wants to reduce the disparity in the performance of these skills between big and small hitbox. Well maybe they need a mechanical rework.Will it be possible to transform MS into the forged attack that rains down from the sky? By this I mean:

  • create an aoe
  • inside this area up to five targets will be randomly chosen and a smaller aoe will be created on their position (same as the forged attack) and the meteor will fall.This change will make MS far more punishing, a skill that roots you for almost 4s should be potent and punishing. Big hitbox will most likely take all the projectiles, and the performance on small hitbox will remain competitive as projectiles will be set per targets and will be honed to their respective position.MS is a signature skill, dating back from GW1, a skill that has one sole purpose: obliterate, make it be.

If possible make the glyphs work the same way Amala's Dwayna form performs with its lightning strikes.

I won't delve into other skills as other members brought enough enlightened propositions but I will provide guidelines:

  1. Rework if technically possible the staff as said before
  2. Clarify the design of water and earth weapon skills:Water does not feel "whole" as a concept, it provides poor healing when not geared and some occasional burst damage, make it more potent in terms of control,keep the healing while buffing it ever so slightly while reducing healing power scaling to balance things out.Rework the AA, I mean, just look at dagger water AA... tragic. I suggest an icy claw theme.Earth and bleeding is a good idea, just enhance the hard cc of earth ; for example a knockdown on staff
  3. Scepter and Focus need care.

For balance reasons I guess, elem's AA have always been tuned down compared to other professions, let it be as a part of the design but make it worthwhile to cast your aoe and other spells, we have a lot of cd making us heavily dependent on alacrity, the latest nerfs are too punishing and changes must be made.

Overall Elementalist requires an alignment to its original vision and more defined attunements.

Concerning the traits:

  1. Fire should be the base core dmg spec, Conjurer is meh. Conjures should become ammo skill, there's nothing more frustrating than summoning you beautiful magical child on the perfect spot and seeing one teammate disengaging and rushing to put its dirty hand on your pristine scion... Make it selfish, ammo skill, proc an aoe damage spell effect when traited with Conjurer and grant a fire aura (see my new version of auras below).One with Fire, pulsing damage while under the effect of fire aura, remove the might buff.Blinding ashes should go with the theme of aura and blind when receiving fire aura.
  2. Air is not too bad, changes to make FA a thing again should be brought, I'd like to see it more offensive (see. 4 of this list). Make the Aeromancer's precision buff minor and replace it with dmg boost against vulnerable foes.
  3. Earth is nice for what it does but Diamond Skin should be changed by adding resistance to it for example on aura. While earth skills focused on bleeds and crits, the spec might focus on defense and barriers.
  4. Water, well see below with Tempest. Water should be scrapped from dmg bonus buffs that should be transferred to air (vulnerability dmg buff). It should focus on heal and control with an enhancement on chill and slow.

In terms of utilities, conjures as ammo skills with a reworked Axe, cantrips could use a general cd reduction especially cleansing fire and lightning flash (also remove the damage and increase the range).

II. THE TEMPEST

Tempest did not really changed the core elementalist and that's the main problem. It was a glorified version of core with a dps/burst increase on F1-2 skills. Elem is already versatile and has access to a large skills pool, tempest should really change the way core plays by enhancing the aoe capacity and the support. Tempest can heal a lot but it's not that necessary in PvE, Tempest should bring aoe buffs, boons, deal aoe damage and make its allies part of the "tempest" with the help of aura. Tempest should unleash the storm on the battlefield with solid damage and good supportive skills to enhance its allies, making the whole party a tempest, a force to be reckoned with.Thus, auras should be buffed and made more original: (might need tweakings)

  1. Fire aura grants direct might, 5 stacks for example and keeps its active might generation on hit
  2. Frost aura is fairly good but condi dmg reduction should be added
  3. Magnetic aura, I'd like to see stab added with it, for like 2s
  4. Shock aura would be nice with an aoe blind effect (inspired by: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Lightning_Touch), after all, air is all about blinding effects.

With that in mind auramancer should be built-in the base design of the Tempest by reducing the cd of aura skills. Tempest might use the overloads for damage (tweak a trait line for this matter) but will have the rest of its traits directed to offensive support. Scrapping prot on aura from earth (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elemental_Shielding) to give it to tempest lines might free the tempest from this trait line allowing it to focus on damage and utility by adding fire/air or arcane or even water (might be too much support).Earth Elemental Shielding should be replaced by barrier generation.Water line hinders Tempest by monopolizing most of the condi clear capacities but mostly by holding https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Powerful_Aura.Tempest should benefit from condi clear on aura without water. This way water condi clear will remain linked to regeneration and Tempest condi clear will be linked on aura, with the necessary changes to make it clear:

  1. Powerful aura should become a Tempest grandmaster trait by merging it with Elemental Bastion which will be stripped from its frost aura proc effect in exchange.
  2. Powerful aura should be replaced in water line by a damage enhancing trait to make sense with piercing shards and aquamancer training.

III. THE WEAVER

With the weaver our dps has skyrocketted to the heavens. Wigs across the world flew off... But it was mostly make up. Weaver clearly enhanced the only role where elementalist used to shine: dps. It is a dps spec, it is a power creep. But look at weaver now, just a shell of what is used to be.We loved Elements of Rage (EoR) but on a pure design standpoint it does not make much sense, Weaver is all about weaving magic and dual attune, therefore EoR should compliment dual-attunements gameplay. I did not appreciate the will to force weavers to gear for vitality. Elementalist is not about vitality, it feels out of place in my opinion and it's uncalled for.

Weaver was the perfect occasion to bring back the PBAoE elementalist build of old. While Tempest makes sense being an offensive support class, Weaver should shine at dealing heavy but yet predictable PBAoe damage with means to engage and disengage. Why predictable? Well if you see a sword weaver coming to you, first of all you should be scared, second of all you should be able to take it out at range but if it reaches you, well pray the Six. It's more balanced like this.Building a bruiser build with an elementalist sacrifices a significant portion of your dps, therefore it's easier to build a weaver that is a glass cannon, high risk, high reward. We need the reward.The sword build damage should be buffed, it's not easy (I'm not saying it's not possible) for the scholar class with the lowest HP to fair at close range, we do not benefit from the evades (hello mirage) and illusions of the mesmer, nor the teleports and blind of the thief or aegis of the guardian... Stances are lackluster (looking at you Stone Resonance).

Weaver illustrates an identity trouble.While Tempest was rather clear in which direction you could go with it, offense support, which can then be easily refined and enhanced, weaver does not have this luxury.You cannot create a spec that is supposed to deal melee damage with its e-spec weapon while not giving it either the high damage or the high defense/sustain necessary.Staff weaver is pure bliss dps, sword weaver is looking for an identity and other weapons set are lackluster because of core problems.

Dual skills and attunement playstyle should be rewarded with this e-spec.

  1. Sword and dagger weaver: drawing inspiration from PBAoE of GW1 builds, it should benefit from good damage with effective damage mitigation that do not sacrifice your dps too much, evades, better barrier generation (stance), blocks maybe. The vision is, you go in, you destroy everything before you get destroyed. Of course remove Master's Fortitude HP boost for balance, btw it is quite weird that is does not work with the new EoR.
  2. Staff weaver: the pinnacle of dps, powerful aoe for days, staff weaver is the deadly cannon in the backline that can easily be taken down, but it should not be completely defenseless thanks to the core elementalist changes.Other weapon sets clearly need attention, scepter AA are simply not good and even Weaver cannot make it up.

In terms of traits:Well EoR seems to be the main reason of all these nerfs, but it caused too much damage.If core elementalist is buffed, if weapon skills are buffed too (Lava font, MS, focus and so on...) then it will become less necessary to rely on flat damage bonuses (which are unhealthy for the game and quite boring). We already have it with fire and Air, make EoR enhance this aspect by bringing back a lingering effect:--> EoR enhances the X-mancer (pyro, aero, etc) bonus and make it linger on swap. Why? Because the only thing we get by "weaving" is just dual skills (and frustrating cooldowns)--> EoR makes you benefit from the bonus of each elements you are wielding.==> EoR will transform you into a master Weaver mage and might create a nice interaction with the core class.Keep the other GM traits as they insist more on dueling which is fine.

TL;DR: Weaver should be a selfish e-spec that excel in one thing: obliterating foes. For this you should have two main ways: pure direct damage or better dueling. and the traits should reflect that.

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@Waisenpai.6028 said:Ele staff skills needs to be redone up the base damage, correct the projectile speeds. They were nerfed hard since raids. Anet needs to factor enviromental factors in raid like the first game so ele does less damage and reverse most of the nerfs in the fields.

I don't think they should (or even want to) make autoattacks too strong, otherwise you end up with something like ranger. I'd consider adding bleeds onto the earth staff auto. Water Blast is naturally stronger for healing. I think Chain Lightning could stand to be a bit faster because even though the tooltip is 1200, I think it tapers off and has an issue connecting with the target at times. I don't mind Fireball being slow, the only problem is (and this is a broader issue) that, with skills that take so long to cast or hit (Eruption, Ice Spike, Lava Font, which is instant but pulses damage, and people don't tend to stand in it for more than 1-2 ticks; if they do, they deserve to die, it's supposed to punish stationary targets etc.), there should be a payoff in damage, particularly if your stats are geared that way. Necros complained incessantly about how slow skills were. I used to main necro. I thought, for the most part, it was okay. The thing about necros is that they also bring a lot of utility in having boon corrupt, though obviously for PvE it's not so useful.

And on an unrelated note, my bad, I skimmed over the Herald rework and didn't realise they were actually allocating resources for class balance. Tentatively hopeful but I worry extreme shakeups by ANet will spell disaster. Please don't take DPS specs for ele. D/D is dead for other reasons but I don't want for compromises to be made so we can have middling builds across the board. Nerfing one weaponset/spec does not make others viable.

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i'm speaking mainly from an open world perspective, including the personal story, living world story, world bosses, etc. with a little bit of PvP and WvW thrown in. but honestly, i hate PvPiing with my ele. it's just not fun for me, partly because of the minor traits.

to me, the minor traits pigeon-hole the elementalist too much.... Other classes' minor traits are useful all the time, while ele minor traits are only useful in a single attunement. i actually think that the adept and master tier minors could be tweaked and maybe made baseline. and then NEW adept and master level minor traits should be made that are useful regardless of attunement.

examples could be:Whenever you gain any aura, gain "x" boon, Y cooldownwhenever you change attunements, cast X spell, Y cooldowngain 1 stack of X stat or boon every 10 seconds in an attunement, max 5 stacksX boon grants additional buffapplying X condition also applies Y condition

you know, same kind of adept and master tier minor traits that all the other classes get...

some kind of synergy example:adept -- apply burning when you apply chill: 9 second cooldown per target;master -- apply chill to your target (small aoe) when you change attunements: 9 second cooldown

i'd definitely get rid of the point blank AoE nature of the damaging spells on the master traits. and make them all "on target", in order to make them viable for all weapon sets.

i'd almost go so far as to revamp all the trait lines to NOT be named or linked with the attunements...

i'd also add more conditions to ele weapon skills. it seems to me like ele should be able to use elements to poison enemies. after all, high concentrations of metals, found in the earth, are toxic.

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I think the up and coming update to herald is going to remove ele from wvw viable maybe pvp over all. It dose not seem that dmg is getting nerf at all on the hearald class but now its going to be more able to bring more buffs for the group. Ele was always behind before the update to herald with a blast / aura fury vs a perma fury passively. Anet tell me your not updating a class that is used often over classes not being used at all like tempest.

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@Jski.6180 said:I think the up and coming update to herald is going to remove ele from wvw viable maybe pvp over all. It dose not seem that dmg is getting nerf at all on the hearald class but now its going to be more able to bring more buffs for the group. Ele was always behind before the update to herald with a blast / aura fury vs a perma fury passively. Anet tell me your not updating a class that is used often over classes not being used at all like tempest.

I don't believe we will see any large (game-changing) updates of the ele. I lost hope. I am expecting it to be below trash and less needed profession for a long time.

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I started the game at release, mostly did PvE the first year, then mostly only WvWed and PvPed, and for some years now I almost exclusively play PvP. To me this is the ultimate end game content where you can display all your skills fashion sense. Needless to say I'm the most pretty out there.

@"Forgotten Legend.9281" said:i'm speaking mainly from an open world perspective, including the personal story, living world story, world bosses, etc. with a little bit of PvP and WvW thrown in. but honestly, i hate PvPiing with my ele. it's just not fun for me, partly because of the minor traits.

to me, the minor traits pigeon-hole the elementalist too much.... Other classes' minor traits are useful all the time, while ele minor traits are only useful in a single attunement. i actually think that the adept and master tier minors could be tweaked and maybe made baseline. and then NEW adept and master level minor traits should be made that are useful regardless of attunement.

examples could be:Whenever you gain any aura, gain "x" boon, Y cooldownwhenever you change attunements, cast X spell, Y cooldowngain 1 stack of X stat or boon every 10 seconds in an attunement, max 5 stacksX boon grants additional buffapplying X condition also applies Y condition

you know, same kind of adept and master tier minor traits that all the other classes get...

some kind of synergy example:adept -- apply burning when you apply chill: 9 second cooldown per target;master -- apply chill to your target (small aoe) when you change attunements: 9 second cooldown

i'd definitely get rid of the point blank AoE nature of the damaging spells on the master traits. and make them all "on target", in order to make them viable for all weapon sets.

i'd almost go so far as to revamp all the trait lines to NOT be named or linked with the attunements...

i'd also add more conditions to ele weapon skills. it seems to me like ele should be able to use elements to poison enemies. after all, high concentrations of metals, found in the earth, are toxic.

I'd like to build on what you said, and what some people already mentioned, to what I think is the root of Ele's inability to keep up.

1- Attunement specific traits.As it has been raised previously, Ele minor adept and master core traits (except Arcana Line) only proc when switching to their respective elements. Therefore, adding to our stat deficiency, we also have built-in trait deficiency (or rather inefficiency). Hence why Arcana has always been a top pick, and core Ele so dead. And that is only if and when you switch; you gain nothing traitwise from camping a single attunement. You can in fact, but in practice your survival depends on switching between offense/defense; when other professions have a better balance overall, Ele's playstyle is too binary.2- Weapon skills.That binary mechanic is further carried on the weapon skills. Damage in Fire, Heal/support in Water, Mobility/CC in Air, Defense/CC in Earth. True, Eles have all in one set, but with a high opportunity cost. With long cast times/aftercast and no CC in Fire, landing damage on sapient small hitbox moving targets demands more precision and timing than other professions.

I'll be short, the easiest and simplest way to fix improve ele would be to distribute damage coefficients more consistently across all attunements. Not in a Wordly Impact way, but enough so that we dont heal enemies when we hit them. We already have to invest too much in our own survivability: Gear, Traits, attunement swapping. Isn't Ele's point to do damage anyway?Also, some skills really don't have such a long cooldown justified (Hello Flamewall and Fire "shield" for instance). Quitting Cleansing Water would also feel like playing a new game. Maybe leave that for group support builds, but let us ways to cleanse and mitigate on a personal level without over reliance on water/arcana. I suggest making a Lesser elemental attunement and Lesser cleansing water baseline. Self-boon on attunement, self cleanse on regen, no AoE. That alone would give Eles a real class mechanic. I won't be asking more or complicated reworks since dev time is severely limited. I'll hope and pray for GW3.

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@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@"Jski.6180" said:I think the up and coming update to herald is going to remove ele from wvw viable maybe pvp over all. It dose not seem that dmg is getting nerf at all on the hearald class but now its going to be more able to bring more buffs for the group. Ele was always behind before the update to herald with a blast / aura fury vs a perma fury passively. Anet tell me your not updating a class that is used often over classes not being used at all like tempest.

I don't believe we will see any large (game-changing) updates of the ele. I lost hope. I am expecting it to be below trash and less needed profession for a long time.

Well what was probably stopping Ele from getting important updates to push them out of trash tier on all game modes was their ability to deal too much DPS on Raid bosses. "Hey, Staff Weaver deals too much DPS on golems and raid bosses so it must be good". I have some faith (little) now that part of the Elementalist is no longer true we might see some updates to the rest of the Elementalist skillset to make the profession at least viable in anything other than DPSing raid bosses.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@"Jski.6180" said:I think the up and coming update to herald is going to remove ele from wvw viable maybe pvp over all. It dose not seem that dmg is getting nerf at all on the hearald class but now its going to be more able to bring more buffs for the group. Ele was always behind before the update to herald with a blast / aura fury vs a perma fury passively. Anet tell me your not updating a class that is used often over classes not being used at all like tempest.

I don't believe we will see any large (game-changing) updates of the ele. I lost hope. I am expecting it to be below trash and less needed profession for a long time.

Well what was probably stopping Ele from getting important updates to push them out of trash tier on all game modes was their ability to deal too much DPS on Raid bosses. "Hey, Staff Weaver deals too much DPS on golems and raid bosses so it must be good". I have some faith (little) now that part of the Elementalist is no longer true we might see some updates to the rest of the Elementalist skillset to make the profession at least viable in anything other than DPSing raid bosses.

Meh, I don't really care about the potential other applications. I mean, if you insist - sure, whatever. But all I really want from ele is to dps bosses and bomb zergs.

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@Feanor.2358 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@"Jski.6180" said:I think the up and coming update to herald is going to remove ele from wvw viable maybe pvp over all. It dose not seem that dmg is getting nerf at all on the hearald class but now its going to be more able to bring more buffs for the group. Ele was always behind before the update to herald with a blast / aura fury vs a perma fury passively. Anet tell me your not updating a class that is used often over classes not being used at all like tempest.

I don't believe we will see any large (game-changing) updates of the ele. I lost hope. I am expecting it to be below trash and less needed profession for a long time.

Well what was probably stopping Ele from getting important updates to push them out of trash tier on all game modes was their ability to deal too much DPS on Raid bosses. "Hey, Staff Weaver deals too much DPS on golems and raid bosses so it must be good". I have some faith (little) now that part of the Elementalist is no longer true we might see some updates to the rest of the Elementalist skillset to make the profession at least viable in anything other than DPSing raid bosses.

Meh, I don't really care about the potential other applications. I mean, if you insist - sure, whatever. But all I really want from ele is to dps bosses and bomb zergs.

The problem is this ele brings boons ontop of its dmg to a fight both for its self and its group but these are on super short ranges or so far down lines and or needing so much work to get a non perma version of these boon where rev who can already get a perma version as well as other powerful boons with out giving up its dmg AS well as having much more tankly effects passively and actively all befor the rework of its support effects. After the rework for a class whom dose not need it before other classes (newest class should be last in line at least or at least should look at classes who are no longer viable befor hand) we may see rev start to do dps AND powerful boon support. That is the real end for the ele class and its all on anet and the devs. There is no dmg in the world that will make up for a class with dmg and strong boons this is not an nerf or buff factor this is a game made problem of the dev them self of ele and rev.

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@Feanor.2358 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@"Jski.6180" said:I think the up and coming update to herald is going to remove ele from wvw viable maybe pvp over all. It dose not seem that dmg is getting nerf at all on the hearald class but now its going to be more able to bring more buffs for the group. Ele was always behind before the update to herald with a blast / aura fury vs a perma fury passively. Anet tell me your not updating a class that is used often over classes not being used at all like tempest.

I don't believe we will see any large (game-changing) updates of the ele. I lost hope. I am expecting it to be below trash and less needed profession for a long time.

Well what was probably stopping Ele from getting important updates to push them out of trash tier on all game modes was their ability to deal too much DPS on Raid bosses. "Hey, Staff Weaver deals too much DPS on golems and raid bosses so it must be good". I have some faith (little) now that part of the Elementalist is no longer true we might see some updates to the rest of the Elementalist skillset to make the profession at least viable in anything other than DPSing raid bosses.

Meh, I don't really care about the potential other applications. I mean, if you insist - sure, whatever. But all I really want from ele is to dps bosses and bomb zergs.This is exactly what I really want too, for PvE.

Look at how many responses and views for this "Concern", It shows that Elementalist really has problem in all 3 game modes.Hope that we do not need a year or more to see good updates for Ele.

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@"Feanor.2358" said:

Meh, I don't really care about the potential other applications. I mean, if you insist - sure, whatever. But all I really want from ele is to dps bosses and bomb zergs.

Funny, because I'd prefer the exact opposite: dps shouldn't be low, but changing tactics on the fly is what I like best about ele. It's nice to be able to deal damage, but it's even better to change to a different attunement and spend a few seconds support (giving up some dps of course, it should still be balanced) and then go back to full dps.

Glpyhs, combo fields/finishers and traits like Arcane Precision and Elemental Attunement is what I like most about ele.

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@Jski.6180 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Jski.6180 said:I think the up and coming update to herald is going to remove ele from wvw viable maybe pvp over all. It dose not seem that dmg is getting nerf at all on the hearald class but now its going to be more able to bring more buffs for the group. Ele was always behind before the update to herald with a blast / aura fury vs a perma fury passively. Anet tell me your not updating a class that is used often over classes not being used at all like tempest.

I don't believe we will see any large (game-changing) updates of the ele. I lost hope. I am expecting it to be below trash and less needed profession for a long time.

Well what was probably stopping Ele from getting important updates to push them out of trash tier on all game modes was their ability to deal too much DPS on Raid bosses. "Hey, Staff Weaver deals too much DPS on golems and raid bosses so it must be good". I have some faith (little) now that part of the Elementalist is no longer true we might see some updates to the rest of the Elementalist skillset to make the profession at least viable in anything other than DPSing raid bosses.

Meh, I don't really care about the potential other applications. I mean, if you insist - sure, whatever. But all I really want from ele is to dps bosses and bomb zergs.

The problem is this ele brings boons ontop of its dmg

It's irrelevant in PvE. The boons you provide are already covered, and better.> @ThiBash.5634 said:

Meh, I don't really care about the potential other applications. I mean, if you insist - sure, whatever. But all I really want from ele is to dps bosses and bomb zergs.

Funny, because I'd prefer the exact opposite: dps shouldn't be low, but changing tactics on the fly is what I like best about ele. It's nice to be able to deal damage, but it's even better to change to a different attunement and spend a few seconds support (giving up some dps of course, it should still be balanced) and then go back to full dps.

Glpyhs, combo fields/finishers and traits like
and
is what I like most about ele.

Again, I don't mind you having that. Albeit it is a bit strange for the class with most fragile base stats to be extremely durable and tough. But if you want that, sure. As long as the glass cannon remains an option.

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@Feanor.2358 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Jski.6180 said:I think the up and coming update to herald is going to remove ele from wvw viable maybe pvp over all. It dose not seem that dmg is getting nerf at all on the hearald class but now its going to be more able to bring more buffs for the group. Ele was always behind before the update to herald with a blast / aura fury vs a perma fury passively. Anet tell me your not updating a class that is used often over classes not being used at all like tempest.

I don't believe we will see any large (game-changing) updates of the ele. I lost hope. I am expecting it to be below trash and less needed profession for a long time.

Well what was probably stopping Ele from getting important updates to push them out of trash tier on all game modes was their ability to deal too much DPS on Raid bosses. "Hey, Staff Weaver deals too much DPS on golems and raid bosses so it must be good". I have some faith (little) now that part of the Elementalist is no longer true we might see some updates to the rest of the Elementalist skillset to make the profession at least viable in anything other than DPSing raid bosses.

Meh, I don't really care about the potential other applications. I mean, if you insist - sure, whatever. But all I really want from ele is to dps bosses and bomb zergs.

The problem is this ele brings boons ontop of its dmg

It's irrelevant in PvE. The boons you provide are already covered, and better.> @ThiBash.5634 said:

Meh, I don't really care about the potential other applications. I mean, if you insist - sure, whatever. But all I really want from ele is to dps bosses and bomb zergs.

Funny, because I'd prefer the exact opposite: dps shouldn't be low, but changing tactics on the fly is what I like best about ele. It's nice to be able to deal damage, but it's even better to change to a different attunement and spend a few seconds support (giving up some dps of course, it should still be balanced) and then go back to full dps.

Glpyhs, combo fields/finishers and traits like
and
is what I like most about ele.

Again, I don't mind you having that. Albeit it is a bit strange for the class with most fragile base stats to be extremely durable and tough. But if you want that, sure. As long as the glass cannon remains an option.

you cant have fragile base stats and not be durable and tough - against real people or with random pugs you will get slaughtered and be a liability.

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@Feanor.2358 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Jski.6180 said:I think the up and coming update to herald is going to remove ele from wvw viable maybe pvp over all. It dose not seem that dmg is getting nerf at all on the hearald class but now its going to be more able to bring more buffs for the group. Ele was always behind before the update to herald with a blast / aura fury vs a perma fury passively. Anet tell me your not updating a class that is used often over classes not being used at all like tempest.

I don't believe we will see any large (game-changing) updates of the ele. I lost hope. I am expecting it to be below trash and less needed profession for a long time.

Well what was probably stopping Ele from getting important updates to push them out of trash tier on all game modes was their ability to deal too much DPS on Raid bosses. "Hey, Staff Weaver deals too much DPS on golems and raid bosses so it must be good". I have some faith (little) now that part of the Elementalist is no longer true we might see some updates to the rest of the Elementalist skillset to make the profession at least viable in anything other than DPSing raid bosses.

Meh, I don't really care about the potential other applications. I mean, if you insist - sure, whatever. But all I really want from ele is to dps bosses and bomb zergs.

The problem is this ele brings boons ontop of its dmg

It's irrelevant in PvE. The boons you provide are already covered, and better.> @ThiBash.5634 said:

Meh, I don't really care about the potential other applications. I mean, if you insist - sure, whatever. But all I really want from ele is to dps bosses and bomb zergs.

Funny, because I'd prefer the exact opposite: dps shouldn't be low, but changing tactics on the fly is what I like best about ele. It's nice to be able to deal damage, but it's even better to change to a different attunement and spend a few seconds support (giving up some dps of course, it should still be balanced) and then go back to full dps.

Glpyhs, combo fields/finishers and traits like
and
is what I like most about ele.

Again, I don't mind you having that. Albeit it is a bit strange for the class with most fragile base stats to be extremely durable and tough. But if you want that, sure. As long as the glass cannon remains an option.

The boons rev give you are way better as rev can give you perma fury might swiftness as well as burst boons of self quickness and aoe stab. Its very relevant in pve as offten that +50% dmg out put.

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@"Zelse.9780" said:The identity of what the elementalist was back in the day (jack of all trades/glass cannon damage dealer) is no longer a relevant option with the constant changes with other classes received along with the new elite specs that have put other classes in specific niches (healer/boon support) while giving the elementalists and their elite specs to just float around trying to find out what they are, and what they provide. They were only used in group play for their aoe/damage, however, lost their only "niche" from being damage dealer to being completely irrelevant and out classed in practically every aspect especially in pve. Why bring an elementalist when you can bring a class that can do it better, and easier to play?

Elementalist when I first started playing it was a very difficult class to play, and the learning curve was definitely not recommended for beginners, just look up any of the youtube videos that recommends classes for beginners, however, I learned to play and play well to achieve the damage that was promised me when I master this unique class. With that being said, no new player would ever want to play a class that was difficult to play only to achieve average potential in all aspects of game modes, especially pve which when you are a new player that is the first thing you are introduced to.

I'm a bit confused as to why elementalists got such hard nerfs especially staff when it was clearly apparent that the other classes just needed buffs. The changes to meteor has impacted the staff builds drastically making core, tempest, and weavers obsolete. Like, in what alternate universe are players punished for channeling the full cast time of the meteor skill? Channeling the full skill is a dps loss which to me makes absolutely no sense.

With a serious identity crisis, the not so rewarding high learning curve for mediocre satisfaction, and unwanted nerfs leaves you with a taste of dissatisfaction and and an after taste of disappointment.

Can't agree more.

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@"maddoctor.2738" said:Well what was probably stopping Ele from getting important updates to push them out of trash tier on all game modes was their ability to deal too much DPS on Raid bosses. "Hey, Staff Weaver deals too much DPS on golems and raid bosses so it must be good". I have some faith (little) now that part of the Elementalist is no longer true we might see some updates to the rest of the Elementalist skillset to make the profession at least viable in anything other than DPSing raid bosses.

I don't understand why people are rolling over and thinking it was necessary or appropriate or that there has to be a compromise first before other aspects of ele can be reworked. Isn't it possible for ANet to do both? It's not as if any current ele builds have very good damage, sustain and utility/CC all on one build like certain other professions do. As far as I know, most players weren't even reaching the benchmarks for staff weaver in real-time during raids. So the problem is actually people's obsession with golem benchmarks and their inability to pry themselves away from that and, worse still, the schadenfreude e.g. "If necro DPS is down in the dumps, you deserve it and now you know how we feel." As somebody smartly pointed out once, balance is not, nor should it be, a merry-go-round.

In WvW, two expansions later, there's no need for staff ele water fields because firebrands and chronos do sustain much better. Static Field and Unsteady Ground were capped at 10 targets and so became less important, and have now been replaced mostly by chronos spamming focus pull into AOE. As for damage, people opt for the faster, more reliable damage of hammer revs. I can't remember who said it, but just so everyone is clear, the meta is NOT GWEN. It's chronos, firebrands, spellbreakers and hammer revs. And maybe scourges. I don't mind the wind-up time on some staff skills, I just want the damage back. Epidemic being gutted was probably influenced in equal parts by its abuse in WvW and raids, but raids dictate the direction of balance to a greater degree.

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@GunshotsByComputer.8051 said:We loved Elements of Rage (EoR) but on a pure design standpoint it does not make much sense, Weaver is all about weaving magic and dual attune, therefore EoR should compliment dual-attunements gameplay.I agree with almost your entire post (the lingering X-mancer idea is great!) however I have to disagree on this. I don't feel like double-attuning to the same element should not be a thing to do.On the contrary, I beleive that since you're giving up the new, refreshed cooldowns that you would have accessed to by attuning to a different element instead, double attuning is a high-risk move, that should be rewarded somehow, and the current EoR effect does that. I like that dynamic, and I wouldn't want to see it go away. However, if it is possible to make it even more interesting (because let's be honnest, it's currently nothing more than a flat damage increase :p), I'm all for it!

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sPVP/WVW/PVEHey everyone, Dominusa here!, i have 2 legend tittles, didn´t played last season for personal matters.Been playing only ele since the release of gw2, these are my toughts:

A) SPVP/WVW: Sword ele skills need more range, any target can quit your damage just by running straight.
A.1) The rest of the sword elementalist's features are overpowered as Fxxk, you just need the corrrects stats and 4-5 years mastericing the class. 95% of the ele players just don´t know how to play it correctly, i mean i can go fight 1v5, 1v6 inside WVW and stay alive while i kill some of them.

B) PVE: Staff ele need more damage, is useless for raids right now, no one wants to invite me to raids anymore.

C) Arenanet you are doing and amazing job with this game, just keep the good work, this game is a diamond.

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@"Capodicapis.6819" said:sPVP/WVW/PVEHey everyone, Dominusa here!, i have 2 legend tittles, didn´t played last season for personal matters.Been playing only ele since the release of gw2, these are my toughts:

A) SPVP/WVW: Sword ele skills need more range, any target can quit your damage just by running straight.

A.1) The rest of the sword elementalist's features are overpowered as Fxxk, you just need the corrrects stats and 4-5 years mastericing the class. 95% of the ele players just don´t know how to play it correctly, i mean i can go fight 1v5, 1v6 inside WVW and stay alive while i kill some of them.

B) PVE: Staff ele need more damage, is useless for raids right now, no one wants to invite me to raids anymore.

C) Arenanet you are doing and amazing job with this game, just keep the good work, this game is a diamond.

I have a feeling you dont understand what OP means. If class requires mastering to be useful then it's not OP, it's intended. If class requires "correct" stats to do what some classes can do in glass cannon gear, it's not OP, it's intended.

At least it was intended in core game, but devs made it worse when they introduced unkillable specs in glass cannon gear that do a lot of damage. It's like cele ele didn't teach them anything, and even then balance wasnt as bad as now since it's cele, not berserker.

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@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Jski.6180 said:I think the up and coming update to herald is going to remove ele from wvw viable maybe pvp over all. It dose not seem that dmg is getting nerf at all on the hearald class but now its going to be more able to bring more buffs for the group. Ele was always behind before the update to herald with a blast / aura fury vs a perma fury passively. Anet tell me your not updating a class that is used often over classes not being used at all like tempest.

I don't believe we will see any large (game-changing) updates of the ele. I lost hope. I am expecting it to be below trash and less needed profession for a long time.

Well what was probably stopping Ele from getting important updates to push them out of trash tier on all game modes was their ability to deal too much DPS on Raid bosses. "Hey, Staff Weaver deals too much DPS on golems and raid bosses so it must be good". I have some faith (little) now that part of the Elementalist is no longer true we might see some updates to the rest of the Elementalist skillset to make the profession at least viable in anything other than DPSing raid bosses.

Meh, I don't really care about the potential other applications. I mean, if you insist - sure, whatever. But all I really want from ele is to dps bosses and bomb zergs.

The problem is this ele brings boons ontop of its dmg

It's irrelevant in PvE. The boons you provide are already covered, and better.> @ThiBash.5634 said:

Meh, I don't really care about the potential other applications. I mean, if you insist - sure, whatever. But all I really want from ele is to dps bosses and bomb zergs.

Funny, because I'd prefer the exact opposite: dps shouldn't be low, but changing tactics on the fly is what I like best about ele. It's nice to be able to deal damage, but it's even better to change to a different attunement and spend a few seconds support (giving up some dps of course, it should still be balanced) and then go back to full dps.

Glpyhs, combo fields/finishers and traits like
and
is what I like most about ele.

Again, I don't mind you having that. Albeit it is a bit strange for the class with most fragile base stats to be extremely durable and tough. But if you want that, sure. As long as the glass cannon remains an option.

you cant have fragile base stats and not be durable and tough - against real people or with random pugs you will get slaughtered and be a liability.

That's only pvp perspective. Doesn't work that way in pve. Besides, I actually can. I run full glass in wvw. Against real people. I also run the full glass meta in pugs, because I know the content well enough and I'm confident I can pull it off.

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