Thief (Deadeye) vs Elementalist (Weaver) - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Thief (Deadeye) vs Elementalist (Weaver)

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  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    from a thematical standpoint teef should do more dps but since weaver takes more practice... idk.

    Yes. Lockpicking thematically qualifies you to do more damage than calling down meteors from the sky.

    you have no idea whats in that chest, do you?

    Te lazla otstra.
    nerf list

  • Tails.9372Tails.9372 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Weaver should dish out more AoE damage while Deadeye should lead in terms of single target DPS.

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's pve so why care?

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Weaver should push out more damage.

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    from a thematical standpoint teef should do more dps but since weaver takes more practice... idk.

    Yes. Lockpicking thematically qualifies you to do more damage than calling down meteors from the sky.

    you have no idea whats in that chest, do you?

    I can tell you what is not in it - the power to control the raw elemenets.

  • Jugglemonkey.8741Jugglemonkey.8741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    from a thematical standpoint teef should do more dps but since weaver takes more practice... idk.

    Yes. Lockpicking thematically qualifies you to do more damage than calling down meteors from the sky.

    you have no idea whats in that chest, do you?

    I can tell you what is not in it - the power to control the raw elemenets.

    Power to control the elements means nothing with a dagger sticking from your ribs. If we're arguing thematics, thief would have higher single target damage as they just hit the target while the mage takes too long waving hands and chanting nonsense.

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.
    “If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.” - John Steinbeck

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Weaver should push out more damage.

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    from a thematical standpoint teef should do more dps but since weaver takes more practice... idk.

    Yes. Lockpicking thematically qualifies you to do more damage than calling down meteors from the sky.

    you have no idea whats in that chest, do you?

    I can tell you what is not in it - the power to control the raw elemenets.

    Power to control the elements means nothing with a dagger sticking from your ribs. If we're arguing thematics, thief would have higher single target damage as they just hit the target while the mage takes too long waving hands and chanting nonsense.

    Thematically speaking, you can die both from a stab wound and a giant rock plummeting down on you. But I'm inclined to think the latter would qualify as higher damage anyway.

  • Quasar.1756Quasar.1756 Member ✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    from a thematical standpoint teef should do more dps but since weaver takes more practice... idk.

    Yes. Lockpicking thematically qualifies you to do more damage than calling down meteors from the sky.

    you have no idea whats in that chest, do you?

    Omg, I laughed so hard at this, don't know why but I found it funny XD

  • Quasar.1756Quasar.1756 Member ✭✭

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    from a thematical standpoint teef should do more dps but since weaver takes more practice... idk.

    Yes. Lockpicking thematically qualifies you to do more damage than calling down meteors from the sky.

    you have no idea whats in that chest, do you?

    I can tell you what is not in it - the power to control the raw elemenets.

    Power to control the elements means nothing with a dagger sticking from your ribs. If we're arguing thematics, thief would have higher single target damage as they just hit the target while the mage takes too long waving hands and chanting nonsense.

    O.O You're kidding right?

    State of emergencies are declared on a GLOBAL level when we even THINK of a possibility of a meteor hitting us.

    Movies are made on such scenarios, not some minor event like a knife sticking out of someone's ribs, tsk tsk.

    Meteors are very dangerous and extremely damaging...Just ask the DINOSAURS O.O

    FYI: If it wasn't for a mage waving hands and chanting nonsense, we would of gotten our kittens handed to us in "Lord of the rings", so there you go. :)

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    from a thematical standpoint teef should do more dps but since weaver takes more practice... idk.

    Yes. Lockpicking thematically qualifies you to do more damage than calling down meteors from the sky.

    you have no idea whats in that chest, do you?

    I can tell you what is not in it - the power to control the raw elemenets.

    it doesn't matter to me, dead is dead. in my mind thief should do more single target dps and ele would still be king of huge hitbox / aoe dps.

    Te lazla otstra.
    nerf list

  • lLobo.7960lLobo.7960 Member ✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    from a thematical standpoint teef should do more dps but since weaver takes more practice... idk.

    Yes. Lockpicking thematically qualifies you to do more damage than calling down meteors from the sky.

    you have no idea whats in that chest, do you?

    I can tell you what is not in it - the power to control the raw elemenets.

    it doesn't matter to me, dead is dead. in my mind thief should do more single target dps and ele would still be king of huge hitbox / aoe dps.

    Right now thief is king of single target dps, and ele is king of... weaving hands and chanting nonsense...

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Weaver should push out more damage.

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    from a thematical standpoint teef should do more dps but since weaver takes more practice... idk.

    Yes. Lockpicking thematically qualifies you to do more damage than calling down meteors from the sky.

    you have no idea whats in that chest, do you?

    I can tell you what is not in it - the power to control the raw elemenets.

    it doesn't matter to me, dead is dead. in my mind thief should do more single target dps and ele would still be king of huge hitbox / aoe dps.

    See my next comment. "Dead is dead", but there are ways to objectively assess the levels of damage. You're equally dead if you get shot in the head or vaporized by a thermonuclear blast. But it is obvious which one is the more damaging, and it's obvious they aren't even on the same chart. Purely on the thematic side magic will always be capable of doing much more than the mundane. Simply because it is, by definition, not following the same rules.

    What you're talking about is actually balance. Games have to be fun, so you can't make this level of discrepancy which can easily be thematically appropriate, or your game won't be much fun for all the users who opt to play non-magic classes.

  • Eekasqueak.7850Eekasqueak.7850 Member ✭✭✭✭
    They should be as equal as possible in terms of damage potential.

    Weavers still pump out enough damage for how much AoE they have, thieves having less cleave means they should do more single target damage to me.

  • They should be as equal as possible in terms of damage potential.

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    from a thematical standpoint teef should do more dps but since weaver takes more practice... idk.

    Yes. Lockpicking thematically qualifies you to do more damage than calling down meteors from the sky.

    you have no idea whats in that chest, do you?

    I can tell you what is not in it - the power to control the raw elemenets.

    it doesn't matter to me, dead is dead. in my mind thief should do more single target dps and ele would still be king of huge hitbox / aoe dps.

    which is useless for pvp, you need more than just a viable aoe build in a mmorpg, unless your focus is on dps meter wars.

    "Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.

    Beware the meta!

  • Coolguy.8702Coolguy.8702 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 10, 2018
    Deadeye should push out more damage.

    @steki.1478 said:

    Engi: easy access to lots of (aoe) CC, easy access to aoe blinds (not a big factor, but very useful on sab, sloth and events), tons of soft cc (especially good on condi engi), on demand aoe condi clease+small burst heal.

    Guard: strong cc, aoe blocks (aegis/stab from fb, f3 from dh), aoe heals/cleanses (f2 on both dh and fb), aoe power buff with signet.

    Weaver (staff):

    • minor aoe healing skill (rarely used, as strong as regen with no healing power)
    • aoe cc useful only vs moving targets (exactly where weaver performs poorly so you dont even bring it)
    • single(ish) target cc delayed by 3-6 seconds (dual air or air/earth 3) or from conjured weapon (as reliable as engi's laser/bomb or dh's elite, since you use them for damage primarily)
    • minor aoe heal from water 3 or cleanse from water 5, delayed by ~6 seconds

    Basically nothing impactful, nothing instant, nothing that other classes dont have on 1 button press and 1 second cast time at any given moment. Not to mention that half of them come with virtually no dps uptime, comparable only to fb tomes and tempest overloads.

    Sword/dagger can make very strong CC chain depending on rotation (air 2, air/earth 3, air 5, earth 4, elite), but most of the time you have easy access to only one of those, and without elite, every other CC comes with 3 sec delay. It also has some minor heal+cleanse on water 5, which we all know by now that comes with big delay.

    The only reliable thing you can do as arcane weaver is use geyser proc on rez trait to make downed lava font rotation from other eles a bit more fluid by reviving them faster. There's the utility.

    Sorry bout the late reply, was on vaca. Anyways

    All you said about engi is that it has cc more or less. If you wanna bring up the aoe condi clear it has then you should bring up ele water healing then.

    Again no, yes cc is nice, but thats only for breakbars. Dps>>>>CC (ele has way more than those 2) Chrono also does a better job of keeping up aegis btws. Signet is laughable

    Everything you said is here is still much more than what other classes have for utility (see thief, necro, engi, guard.)

    Ele still has more utility with the conjure weapons, frostbis and hammer can be very good if used correctly.

    EDIT: Just discovered that ele is no longer good for raids, in that case you can just ignore this post

  • Ganathar.4956Ganathar.4956 Member ✭✭✭

    @Coolguy.8702 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    Engi: easy access to lots of (aoe) CC, easy access to aoe blinds (not a big factor, but very useful on sab, sloth and events), tons of soft cc (especially good on condi engi), on demand aoe condi clease+small burst heal.

    Guard: strong cc, aoe blocks (aegis/stab from fb, f3 from dh), aoe heals/cleanses (f2 on both dh and fb), aoe power buff with signet.

    Weaver (staff):

    • minor aoe healing skill (rarely used, as strong as regen with no healing power)
    • aoe cc useful only vs moving targets (exactly where weaver performs poorly so you dont even bring it)
    • single(ish) target cc delayed by 3-6 seconds (dual air or air/earth 3) or from conjured weapon (as reliable as engi's laser/bomb or dh's elite, since you use them for damage primarily)
    • minor aoe heal from water 3 or cleanse from water 5, delayed by ~6 seconds

    Basically nothing impactful, nothing instant, nothing that other classes dont have on 1 button press and 1 second cast time at any given moment. Not to mention that half of them come with virtually no dps uptime, comparable only to fb tomes and tempest overloads.

    Sword/dagger can make very strong CC chain depending on rotation (air 2, air/earth 3, air 5, earth 4, elite), but most of the time you have easy access to only one of those, and without elite, every other CC comes with 3 sec delay. It also has some minor heal+cleanse on water 5, which we all know by now that comes with big delay.

    The only reliable thing you can do as arcane weaver is use geyser proc on rez trait to make downed lava font rotation from other eles a bit more fluid by reviving them faster. There's the utility.

    EDIT: Just discovered that ele is no longer good for raids, in that case you can just ignore this post

    That's an understatement. Ele is no longer good for anything, not just raids.

  • AOE = Elementalist
    Single = Deadeye

  • Nepster.4275Nepster.4275 Member ✭✭✭
    Weaver should push out more damage.

    Why would anyone suffer with taking ele even for AoE? I mean, adds usually get pulled, they will be cleaved down by other classes, or even the deadeye itself. Why would anyone suffer with running for conjures or thinking where to place them because of boss movement, when you have a class that does more damage, and you can actually be half asleep while you do your rotation...
    Honestly i have no problems with deadeye and the lack of skill needed to play it, i have problems with ele and the skill what its needed to play it on a level to be able to compete with deadeye

  • DeceiverX.8361DeceiverX.8361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ganathar.4956 said:

    @Coolguy.8702 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    Engi: easy access to lots of (aoe) CC, easy access to aoe blinds (not a big factor, but very useful on sab, sloth and events), tons of soft cc (especially good on condi engi), on demand aoe condi clease+small burst heal.

    Guard: strong cc, aoe blocks (aegis/stab from fb, f3 from dh), aoe heals/cleanses (f2 on both dh and fb), aoe power buff with signet.

    Weaver (staff):

    • minor aoe healing skill (rarely used, as strong as regen with no healing power)
    • aoe cc useful only vs moving targets (exactly where weaver performs poorly so you dont even bring it)
    • single(ish) target cc delayed by 3-6 seconds (dual air or air/earth 3) or from conjured weapon (as reliable as engi's laser/bomb or dh's elite, since you use them for damage primarily)
    • minor aoe heal from water 3 or cleanse from water 5, delayed by ~6 seconds

    Basically nothing impactful, nothing instant, nothing that other classes dont have on 1 button press and 1 second cast time at any given moment. Not to mention that half of them come with virtually no dps uptime, comparable only to fb tomes and tempest overloads.

    Sword/dagger can make very strong CC chain depending on rotation (air 2, air/earth 3, air 5, earth 4, elite), but most of the time you have easy access to only one of those, and without elite, every other CC comes with 3 sec delay. It also has some minor heal+cleanse on water 5, which we all know by now that comes with big delay.

    The only reliable thing you can do as arcane weaver is use geyser proc on rez trait to make downed lava font rotation from other eles a bit more fluid by reviving them faster. There's the utility.

    EDIT: Just discovered that ele is no longer good for raids, in that case you can just ignore this post

    That's an understatement. Ele is no longer good for anything, not just raids.

    Still a premier class in WvW.
    Just like necro.

    If they made any PvE content reflect some of what happens in the PvP modes I think people would totally freak out when the class balance almost totally inverts.

    You sure that Sniper idea is as good as you thought it was gonna be?
    Because I think my original idea is better.
    Quit/Inactive. No, you can't have my stuff.

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Weaver should push out more damage.

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:

    @Ganathar.4956 said:

    @Coolguy.8702 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    Engi: easy access to lots of (aoe) CC, easy access to aoe blinds (not a big factor, but very useful on sab, sloth and events), tons of soft cc (especially good on condi engi), on demand aoe condi clease+small burst heal.

    Guard: strong cc, aoe blocks (aegis/stab from fb, f3 from dh), aoe heals/cleanses (f2 on both dh and fb), aoe power buff with signet.

    Weaver (staff):

    • minor aoe healing skill (rarely used, as strong as regen with no healing power)
    • aoe cc useful only vs moving targets (exactly where weaver performs poorly so you dont even bring it)
    • single(ish) target cc delayed by 3-6 seconds (dual air or air/earth 3) or from conjured weapon (as reliable as engi's laser/bomb or dh's elite, since you use them for damage primarily)
    • minor aoe heal from water 3 or cleanse from water 5, delayed by ~6 seconds

    Basically nothing impactful, nothing instant, nothing that other classes dont have on 1 button press and 1 second cast time at any given moment. Not to mention that half of them come with virtually no dps uptime, comparable only to fb tomes and tempest overloads.

    Sword/dagger can make very strong CC chain depending on rotation (air 2, air/earth 3, air 5, earth 4, elite), but most of the time you have easy access to only one of those, and without elite, every other CC comes with 3 sec delay. It also has some minor heal+cleanse on water 5, which we all know by now that comes with big delay.

    The only reliable thing you can do as arcane weaver is use geyser proc on rez trait to make downed lava font rotation from other eles a bit more fluid by reviving them faster. There's the utility.

    EDIT: Just discovered that ele is no longer good for raids, in that case you can just ignore this post

    That's an understatement. Ele is no longer good for anything, not just raids.

    Still a premier class in WvW.

    Lul wut?

  • DeceiverX.8361DeceiverX.8361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:

    @Ganathar.4956 said:

    @Coolguy.8702 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    Engi: easy access to lots of (aoe) CC, easy access to aoe blinds (not a big factor, but very useful on sab, sloth and events), tons of soft cc (especially good on condi engi), on demand aoe condi clease+small burst heal.

    Guard: strong cc, aoe blocks (aegis/stab from fb, f3 from dh), aoe heals/cleanses (f2 on both dh and fb), aoe power buff with signet.

    Weaver (staff):

    • minor aoe healing skill (rarely used, as strong as regen with no healing power)
    • aoe cc useful only vs moving targets (exactly where weaver performs poorly so you dont even bring it)
    • single(ish) target cc delayed by 3-6 seconds (dual air or air/earth 3) or from conjured weapon (as reliable as engi's laser/bomb or dh's elite, since you use them for damage primarily)
    • minor aoe heal from water 3 or cleanse from water 5, delayed by ~6 seconds

    Basically nothing impactful, nothing instant, nothing that other classes dont have on 1 button press and 1 second cast time at any given moment. Not to mention that half of them come with virtually no dps uptime, comparable only to fb tomes and tempest overloads.

    Sword/dagger can make very strong CC chain depending on rotation (air 2, air/earth 3, air 5, earth 4, elite), but most of the time you have easy access to only one of those, and without elite, every other CC comes with 3 sec delay. It also has some minor heal+cleanse on water 5, which we all know by now that comes with big delay.

    The only reliable thing you can do as arcane weaver is use geyser proc on rez trait to make downed lava font rotation from other eles a bit more fluid by reviving them faster. There's the utility.

    EDIT: Just discovered that ele is no longer good for raids, in that case you can just ignore this post

    That's an understatement. Ele is no longer good for anything, not just raids.

    Still a premier class in WvW.

    Lul wut?

    Yeah. Ele is an absolute staple in WvW.

    You sure that Sniper idea is as good as you thought it was gonna be?
    Because I think my original idea is better.
    Quit/Inactive. No, you can't have my stuff.

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Weaver should push out more damage.

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:

    @Ganathar.4956 said:

    @Coolguy.8702 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    Engi: easy access to lots of (aoe) CC, easy access to aoe blinds (not a big factor, but very useful on sab, sloth and events), tons of soft cc (especially good on condi engi), on demand aoe condi clease+small burst heal.

    Guard: strong cc, aoe blocks (aegis/stab from fb, f3 from dh), aoe heals/cleanses (f2 on both dh and fb), aoe power buff with signet.

    Weaver (staff):

    • minor aoe healing skill (rarely used, as strong as regen with no healing power)
    • aoe cc useful only vs moving targets (exactly where weaver performs poorly so you dont even bring it)
    • single(ish) target cc delayed by 3-6 seconds (dual air or air/earth 3) or from conjured weapon (as reliable as engi's laser/bomb or dh's elite, since you use them for damage primarily)
    • minor aoe heal from water 3 or cleanse from water 5, delayed by ~6 seconds

    Basically nothing impactful, nothing instant, nothing that other classes dont have on 1 button press and 1 second cast time at any given moment. Not to mention that half of them come with virtually no dps uptime, comparable only to fb tomes and tempest overloads.

    Sword/dagger can make very strong CC chain depending on rotation (air 2, air/earth 3, air 5, earth 4, elite), but most of the time you have easy access to only one of those, and without elite, every other CC comes with 3 sec delay. It also has some minor heal+cleanse on water 5, which we all know by now that comes with big delay.

    The only reliable thing you can do as arcane weaver is use geyser proc on rez trait to make downed lava font rotation from other eles a bit more fluid by reviving them faster. There's the utility.

    EDIT: Just discovered that ele is no longer good for raids, in that case you can just ignore this post

    That's an understatement. Ele is no longer good for anything, not just raids.

    Still a premier class in WvW.

    Lul wut?

    Yeah. Ele is an absolute staple in WvW.

    No it isn't. Ele is something you like to have around, but not something you want your squad filled with. And it's also something you can live without. The staples of WvW? Firebrands, Scourges and Spellbreakers. You'll see these used everywhere, every time. Long-range artilleries like eles and hammer revs are optional. Those 3? Mandatory.

  • Catchyfx.5768Catchyfx.5768 Member ✭✭✭

    I would Say equal dmg only if Weaver scepter not staff
    Teef is singletarget Staff Weaver is biggest AOE spamer so Staff lower dps because of cleave

    Jokaurene

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Weaver should push out more damage.

    Cleave being so important on fights against a single enemy, right?

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭
    They should be as equal as possible in terms of damage potential.

    @Feanor.2358 said:
    Cleave being so important on fights against a single enemy, right?

    Thats actually his point i assume. The weapon is better against many targets thus scepter should be better against a single target.
    Personally i think thief should be better at small targets and eles better against big ones but the overall damage should be arround the same. And not dmg in a vacuum against a golem i mean in action.
    Deadeye also should get better boon support IMO and the mark should be traitable to debuff enemies so that they deal/get more dmg.
    DE should sacrifice DPS to to this ofc but it would give them a solid place in a group.
    I also think that there should be certain buffs on classes that should not stack.
    Like the banner effects. Just that some professions can have only a part of them and warr has all in his banners.
    So you can pick a warrior with a banner if strwngth and a DE that gives allies an effect via mark like a Banner of discipline.
    Buffs are unstackable so it gives more versatility for comps and more freedom for builds.
    Weaver is for PvE in a good place IMO, its mobility is more usable for open PvE but as far as i played it, it is fantastic dmg wise.
    Thiefs have more setup/ramp up time, but later on the easier rotation and they are bound to initiative in some cases although this isnt that big of a deal IMO.

  • Catchyfx.5768Catchyfx.5768 Member ✭✭✭

    it is a principle, and in game is more then just bossfights you know.

    Single Target > multitarget

    Jokaurene

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Weaver should push out more damage.

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Weaver is for PvE in a good place IMO, its mobility is more usable for open PvE but as far as i played it, it is fantastic dmg wise.
    Thiefs have more setup/ramp up time, but later on the easier rotation and they are bound to initiative in some cases although this isnt that big of a deal IMO.

    Weaver is in a good place if you're a skilled ele main with hundreds or thousands of hours practice. Otherwise it's trash. Zero utility, utter reliance on the group and complex gameplay which amount to unreliable and lacking performance. Just pick a holo.
    This kind of niche is anything but healthy. It creates a "catch 22" for the ele. It's not worth playing one unless you're very good, but you can't become very good unless you play it a LOT.

  • DeceiverX.8361DeceiverX.8361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:

    @Ganathar.4956 said:

    @Coolguy.8702 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    Engi: easy access to lots of (aoe) CC, easy access to aoe blinds (not a big factor, but very useful on sab, sloth and events), tons of soft cc (especially good on condi engi), on demand aoe condi clease+small burst heal.

    Guard: strong cc, aoe blocks (aegis/stab from fb, f3 from dh), aoe heals/cleanses (f2 on both dh and fb), aoe power buff with signet.

    Weaver (staff):

    • minor aoe healing skill (rarely used, as strong as regen with no healing power)
    • aoe cc useful only vs moving targets (exactly where weaver performs poorly so you dont even bring it)
    • single(ish) target cc delayed by 3-6 seconds (dual air or air/earth 3) or from conjured weapon (as reliable as engi's laser/bomb or dh's elite, since you use them for damage primarily)
    • minor aoe heal from water 3 or cleanse from water 5, delayed by ~6 seconds

    Basically nothing impactful, nothing instant, nothing that other classes dont have on 1 button press and 1 second cast time at any given moment. Not to mention that half of them come with virtually no dps uptime, comparable only to fb tomes and tempest overloads.

    Sword/dagger can make very strong CC chain depending on rotation (air 2, air/earth 3, air 5, earth 4, elite), but most of the time you have easy access to only one of those, and without elite, every other CC comes with 3 sec delay. It also has some minor heal+cleanse on water 5, which we all know by now that comes with big delay.

    The only reliable thing you can do as arcane weaver is use geyser proc on rez trait to make downed lava font rotation from other eles a bit more fluid by reviving them faster. There's the utility.

    EDIT: Just discovered that ele is no longer good for raids, in that case you can just ignore this post

    That's an understatement. Ele is no longer good for anything, not just raids.

    Still a premier class in WvW.

    Lul wut?

    Yeah. Ele is an absolute staple in WvW.

    No it isn't. Ele is something you like to have around, but not something you want your squad filled with. And it's also something you can live without. The staples of WvW? Firebrands, Scourges and Spellbreakers. You'll see these used everywhere, every time. Long-range artilleries like eles and hammer revs are optional. Those 3? Mandatory.

    If you do not have a source of AoE damage your zerg accomplishes nothing.

    You don't want your zerg "filled" with anything as far as the dominant professions go; you'll wipe for X or Y reason otherwise.
    We're still in the GWE/RN era; there's just less of a focus on eles than in previous metas and more of an emphasis on scourge as a consequence of the boon powercreep since HoT and beyond.

    You sure that Sniper idea is as good as you thought it was gonna be?
    Because I think my original idea is better.
    Quit/Inactive. No, you can't have my stuff.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Deadeye should push out more damage.

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:

    If you do not have a source of AoE damage your zerg accomplishes nothing.

    You don't want your zerg "filled" with anything as far as the dominant professions go; you'll wipe for X or Y reason otherwise.
    We're still in the GWE/RN era; there's just less of a focus on eles than in previous metas and more of an emphasis on scourge as a consequence of the boon powercreep since HoT and beyond.

    Scourges and heralds already bring enough aoes which hit more reliably. They also bring valuable group support which is the reason why you stack them. You stack anything that's not herald, scourge and firebrand - you lose easily because you either have weak frontline or you dont have enough corrupts to stop enemy.

    Both warrior and ele are replaceable, but you still want at least few of each because they offer big zone control. Ele brings damage, but so do herald and scourge on top of group sustain. Ele brings ranged CC, but so do herald, scourge and chrono on top of sustain. Warrior brings boon rip, but so do scourges (corrupts being much better than rips), on top of damage from range and group sustain. Basically both of those are hit or miss - you either stomp enemy if you catch them in your aoes or just watch them avoid those aoes with ease., but they are far from staple. The only reason why you see people complain about warr bubbles or why meteors do such high damage is because people just dont know how to avoid long animations and huge aoe indicators. If ele was in a good spot, it would be useful in organized gvg's, but since all of it's potential is forced on MS due to nerfs, it's useless because good people can actually walk out of it. Warr doesnt have that issue since it's extremely strong in melee fights, with or without elite skill.

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  • TwiceDead.1963TwiceDead.1963 Member ✭✭✭

    Ele should do better Cleave damage.
    Thief should do better single-target damage.

    It just makes sense and it's easy.

  • Eddbopkins.2630Eddbopkins.2630 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 21, 2018
    Weaver should push out more damage.

    Weaver should push out more damage.
    Weaver is higher risk haveing its most effect burst fa sc/d/f being max ranged of 900.
    while deadeye has 1200 range, stealth, quickness, and unblockable. This combination is unparalleled when compaired to what a weaver can do in terms of damage and bursting potential.

    My point of view is from a pvper though so i think this is wprth mentioning as pve and pvp should have different attributes or damage models for skills.

  • Kain Francois.4328Kain Francois.4328 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 22, 2018
    Deadeye should push out more damage.

    Compromise: Deadeye deals more damage, but Weaver brings almost as much damage plus utility.

    I'd like to see the barrier aspect of Weaver emphasized more. Water options, such as rezzing, should certainly be more available as well.

    Sure, we can spam 5111 Deadeye, but wouldn't it be cooler to have a Weaver that can do things like auto-breaking stuns, cleansing conditions, granting auras,, and preventing downs? What about being able to spread their aoes to far objectives like Xera crystals, without reducing damage on the boss?

    On second thought, this is reminds me a lot of Tempest. Nerfing them was a mistake.

  • DeceiverX.8361DeceiverX.8361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kain Francois.4328 said:
    Compromise: Deadeye deals more damage, but Weaver brings almost as much damage plus utility.

    I'd like to see the barrier aspect of Weaver emphasized more. Water options, such as rezzing, should certainly be more available as well.

    Sure, we can spam 5111 Deadeye, but wouldn't it be cooler to have a Weaver that can do things like auto-breaking stuns, cleansing conditions, granting auras,, and preventing downs? What about being able to spread their aoes to far objectives like Xera crystals, without reducing damage on the boss?

    On second thought, this is reminds me a lot of Tempest. Nerfing them was a mistake.

    Here's the thing about optimization, though.

    If the ele can do all of that enough to be impactful, then it's making another class redundant.

    Otherwise, it won't be doing any of it well enough to justify the ele itself.

    As far as optimized PvE goes, the professions will never be balanced. It's literally a hopeless task.

    Regardless of the state of the elementalist, what people need to start realizing is that "good enough" is just that: good enough.

    You sure that Sniper idea is as good as you thought it was gonna be?
    Because I think my original idea is better.
    Quit/Inactive. No, you can't have my stuff.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Deadeye should push out more damage.

    @Kain Francois.4328 said:
    Compromise: Deadeye deals more damage, but Weaver brings almost as much damage plus utility.

    I'd like to see the barrier aspect of Weaver emphasized more. Water options, such as rezzing, should certainly be more available as well.

    Sure, we can spam 5111 Deadeye, but wouldn't it be cooler to have a Weaver that can do things like auto-breaking stuns, cleansing conditions, granting auras,, and preventing downs? What about being able to spread their aoes to far objectives like Xera crystals, without reducing damage on the boss?

    On second thought, this is reminds me a lot of Tempest. Nerfing them was a mistake.

    That's job for support class in the group, not dps. In fact, all dps builds should have utility part of their DPS setups toned down and moved to specific weapon sets or utility skills. That way everyone can do dps and everyone can bring utility, but with a dps loss and not at the same time (something like banners and maces on warr; engi has tons of CC in its dps builds and quite strong aoe heal and cleanse from heal turret).

    Nerfing tempest had to happen to avoid situation where you could do high dps and provide a lot of utility at (almost) the same time.

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  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Weaver should push out more damage.

    @Kain Francois.4328 said:
    Compromise: Deadeye deals more damage, but Weaver brings almost as much damage plus utility.

    I'd like to see the barrier aspect of Weaver emphasized more. Water options, such as rezzing, should certainly be more available as well.

    Sure, we can spam 5111 Deadeye, but wouldn't it be cooler to have a Weaver that can do things like auto-breaking stuns, cleansing conditions, granting auras,, and preventing downs? What about being able to spread their aoes to far objectives like Xera crystals, without reducing damage on the boss?

    On second thought, this is reminds me a lot of Tempest. Nerfing them was a mistake.

    That's Tempest you're thinking of. And also a support spec, not a dps one. And also an irrelevant one, since it's all about defence. In the context of PvE, the only viable supports are the offensive ones.

  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭✭

    One is Pure single target and the other has range aoe cleave that no other class has.

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Weaver should push out more damage.

    Definitely weaver, would have said deadeye some times ago, but he is fine now and deal a serious amount of damages (THATSALOTOFDAMAGE) but for weaver I can't really compare, weaver is okay but IMO not enough armor/support, deal correct damages but seem to be made of glass. I mostly use fire and air elements, water and earth look very weak for me: Earth could be cool if the last skill don't have an enormous cast time "churning earth" with dagger. Also fire shield isn't that useful.

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  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Weaver should push out more damage.

    @hugo.4705 said:
    Definitely weaver, would have said deadeye some times ago, but he is fine now and deal a serious amount of damages (THATSALOTOFDAMAGE) but for weaver I can't really compare, weaver is okay but IMO not enough armor/support, deal correct damages but seem to be made of glass. I mostly use fire and air elements, water and earth look very weak for me: Earth could be cool if the last skill don't have an enormous cast time "churning earth" with dagger. Also fire shield isn't that useful.

    Correct damage? This level of damage is pretty useless for the amount of effort involved. It doesn't matter if it became more tanky, it would still be underwhelming.

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Weaver should push out more damage.

    Of course if you try to see the weaver strong for pvp/wvw I agree with you, correct for me in pve because I can easily deal with veterans and groups of enemies without getting downed, only that is a good point for a class/spec for me, of course I don't wipe my enemies like with my holosmith or reaper or deadeye, but weaver could be worse. I tried mirage not a long time ago, my weaver dealt more damage than him. Again, I think that an increase of armor and critical rate can make a great difference.

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  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Weaver should push out more damage.

    Mirage is FAR better for soloing stuff than weaver. But I'm actually talking about high-end group content, where damage output actually matters.

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