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Which professions go best thematically with which races?


Rise.8259

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@Rise.8259 said:I assumed from the way the Chaar looked, moved, and fought, that they were more of a savage warrior type, maybe with dark magic. Having not been to their territory yet or done their stories.

They actually seem closer in engineering to dwarves than any of the other races.

Although I would still have a hard time choosing Chaar over Human as engineer just because I don't think Chaar actually look fitting or good as engineers.

Charr don't trust magic. Go to the wiki page for the charr for their history and lore and you'll understand why. They're not savage warriors but soldiers. They have three legions: Blood, which are your standard infantry; Ash, which are assassins and spies; and Iron, which were the first engineers and are still the best. Any class works for the charr, but lorewise, spellcasters have a harder time getting along with other charr thanks to the trust thing that I mentioned.

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I do enjoy playing with these themes myself.Some race+class combos fit well with me while others just dont.

Humans, I more or less see them as the blank slate that can do anything and fit with any class.Charr, Warriors, Revenants, Guardians, Rangers, Engineers, Thieves, Elementalist and Necromancers.Norn, Warriors, Revenants, Guardians, Rangers and Elementalists.Asura, Revenants, Engineers, Thieves, Elementalists, Necromancers and Mesmers.Sylvari, Warriors, Guardians, Rangers, Thieves, Elementalists and Mesmers.

Mesmer to me just doesn't fit well with Charr and Norn characters.. Both races tend to be so dominant in their physical prowess and far more Warrior like in culture.I just don't see the Mesmer class having much of a place in their worlds because of that.

Necromancer doesn't fit to well imo with the Norn and Sylvari races since out of all the races these are the two I would say have the most respect for Life and Nature.If there were ever any races in Tyria that would frown upon Necromancy as a practice it would probably be the Norn and the Sylvari more than any others as Necromancy conflicts with their deep respect for Life and Nature.

Thief Sorry but I just can't see a giant lumbering Norn ever possessing the kind of stealth, nimbleness and athletic skill required for mastery of the thieving class.Seeing a giant norn spinning around doing flips is about the most laughably ridiculous thing i've seen in gw2 XD

Engineer This class just doesn't seem to fit well with Sylvari and Norn imo, The Sylvari simply because when they need weapons or defences they just grow them.. even turrets they just sprout from the ground whenever they please, When you have those abilities It just makes the idea of constructing mechanical technology irrelevant.As for the Norn well they just seem the type to scoff at advanced technology in general, who needs a fancy turret defending your homested when you've got a pet Bear or can do more damage to an intruder by hitting them with a giant slab of steel.

Ranger What is this foul smelling beast doing in my lab!? I'll have whoever was responsible for this scrubbing the waste disposal system for the next 20 decades!

Revenant The Sylvari being what they are and not a flesh and blood race with a deeply rooted religious, scientific or historical presence in the world just feels like out of all the races the Sylvari would be significantly less attuned to the Mists and far more ignorant of it than the other races are.Considering the Revenant requires a strong connection to the Mists to harness it's powers I just feel the Sylvari would have the hardest time trying to utalize this class.

Warrior & Guardian Take that you ingrate!.. oh curse these feeble tiny arms..Sorry guys but Asura's are just too small and physically frail to be effective Warriors and Guardians, They just lack the physical prowess needed to smash!

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It's possible to create lore connections between all the races and all the classes to make them fit.

Humans have a lot of versatility built into them just because of the original game and their human gods. Elementalist fits the versatility of someone who worships the pantheon as a whole (barring recent events, Balthazar is the god of fire, Lyssa is the goddess of water, Grenth the god of ice, Dwayna the goddess of air and Melandru the goddess of earth, only Kormir doesn't have an element tied to her). Warriors are tied to Balthazar, Rangers to Melandru, Necromancers to Grenth, Mesmers to Lyssa, Thieves also possibly to Grenth (at least any that fill the role of an assassin, who fell under Grenth's domain in the first game), Guardians fit with Dwayna and Kormir. That just leaves engineers and revenants, but both classes can fit into human society, as not only was human tech part of what made the airships (alongside asura and charr tech), but also human tech made the watchknights. As for revenants, anyone who's remotely interested in history would find great benefit in the revenant, but not only would zephyrites have ties to glint directly (being the next in line after the dwarven brotherhood of the dragon), but also canthans may have an interest in connecting with Shiro for historical records or even just morbid curiosity, the same could go for elonans and Mallyx, Krytans and ascalonians would probably be interested in Jallis as well.

Sylvari can similarly be connected to most of the classes. While the connection between rangers and nature is obvious, elementalists can be said to have a similar connection, connecting with the elements themselves rather than nature, and nature survives on those elements regardless. This is a bit more meta, but if you're looking for a more trickster type fairy character, sylvari mesmers really fill that niche, but going into lore, it's possible that mesmers can almost create Dream like illusions, plus with mesmer magic being tied to the mind anyway, that also fits the HoT narrative regarding Mordremoth as their creator. For the Sylvari who see the cycle of life and understand death is a natural part of it, necromancers make sense out of that culture too, while others bring life, death is always a constant. Thieves work for one of the cycles of the sylvari, I can't remember which one, but there's one cycle that delves in secrets and sylvari thieves work well with that. Engineers can form as a sort of counter culture to traditional sylvari values, but there are the verdant and warden pistols and rifles, so it's possible select sylvari are able to create feats of engineering via the plant manipulation that sylvari naturally use as a race. Warriors make sense as a defending force for the grove, since there will always need to be protectors, and sometimes fighting with a weapon is just the most effective way. Going meta again, Guardians fill that arthurian style legend of warriors, but in game, guardian magic is based on faith, and with Sylvari having faith in Ventari's tablet, they can easily manage to call upon it to protect their friends and allies. For the sylvari who want to hear the words of Ventari himelf, the path of the revenant is most apt.

For the asura, any class that uses magic or technology can be deemed as potential research material. While engineers seem obvious, the new holosmith elite spec really shows that asura flavour of tech (despite it being elonan, but we'll put that to the wayside for a moment). Mesmers can alter the fabric of reality with their magic, no doubt a useful tool for research. Elementalists are able to harness several sources of power and can possibly conjure up resources for testing things out as well as carrying out meteorological experiments with their magic, testing fire or ice resistant materials etc. Necromancy can potentially be seen as more inquest material, but undoubtedly it has it's own research (one asura tried to mix golomancy with necromancy I think, can't remember details) so there's always potential for that. Rangers and their nature magic can definitely serve as a useful tool for studying botany, phenology, animal behaviours and can really bridge a gap into that area of research that would otherwise be unavailable. Thieves obviously work with their small stature, but they can also be used as testers of security systems, they have a little magic that they use that can be studied and of course they could also just test their own physical abilities. That testing of physical abilities works for warriors too, the toughest of the asura may see value in improving asuran constitution and field testing ideas on how to improve themselves using exercise and other alchemical methods too. Also warriors just serve as a good police force in general. Guardians use faith magic, and asura have faith in what they call the eternal alchemy, so they can draw upon that faith to guide themselves. I'm sure some asuran tech is also inspired by guardian magic. Finally for revenants, well, testing mist magic is just a given, and any asura interested in historical documentation would find themselves having a blast speaking with figures from the past.

Charr have their legions. They are a warrior breed, and the blood legion fights with their weapons head on. The iron legion are the natural engineers and the ash legion their thieves, used for infiltration, stealth, and assassination capabilities. Ignoring the Olmakhan for a moment, the other classes have various benefits too. Rangers can obviously tame devourers for use in strategic military plans, as with any animals rangers can tame, plus the ability to use nature would have it's benefits in making sure resources never dwindle too much, though that may fall onto the elementalists. While magic isn't very trusted because of the flame legion, the high legions see the value in magic users, and elementalists, mesmers and necromancers each provide amazing combat feats that can't be replaced. For guardians, faith in your warband is enough to allow you to call upon your magic, and any healers that can provide assistance to wounded soldiers on the field are more than likely appreciated, even if it's magic. That just leaves revenants, many of whom would probably attune fastest to Kalla, the charr legend, but not only that, being able to call upon historical figures that have won key victories in battles and hearing from it first hand is undoubtedly a major pro in the eyes of the high legion, working with first hand experience in taking down different types of enemies in different situations could prove vital to the future of the charr.

And finally norn. The revenant actually provides the easiest lore connection, considering there is a shaman that is able to traverse into the mists, showing that there are norn who have connections to the mists that could possibly be enhanced by training as a revenant, but not only that, norn revenants can learn what it means to be a legend and create a legend for yourself from the beings they channel. Setting aside the "I shall be the BEST [class]", warriors and rangers make the most sense for the norn, considering that they believe in the hunt and crafting a legend through the enemies you defeat. Guardians would fall in this category too, but less so, they can also call upon their faith in the spirits of the wild to fuel their power. Elementalists undoubtedly provide defense against the elements (and maybe would provide cooling rooms for norns hanging out in the desert for example), necromancers are capable of communing with spirits (as seen in the human personal story) so by extension that's just natural for them, and mesmers probably could be storytellers, skalds who use their illusions to bring visuals to the stories that they tell. Engineers also kind of fall into that counter culture, but they could also just be interested in crafting and seeing engineering as the limitless possibilities of crafting and using their crafts in battle to aid their allies. Thieves remain the trickiest to insert here, but there is undoubtedly a norn who would go out and attempt to carve their legend not through blood, but through theft, because imagine telling the story of the time you stole a scale off a hydra, a crystal off a branded or an icicle from the claw of jormag, whoever could do that would carve their legend as the craftiest norn.

Other's could probably refine some of the points or provide better examples of how every race can make sense for any class.

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I don't think that guardians are common among the charr at all. We learn, for example, that Dinky - one of the options for the charr character's sparring partner - was picked on by the rest of his fahrer for being a guardian.

@"Rise.8259" said:I assumed from the way the Chaar looked, moved, and fought, that they were more of a savage warrior type, maybe with dark magic. Having not been to their territory yet or done their stories.

They actually seem closer in engineering to dwarves than any of the other races.

Although I would still have a hard time choosing Chaar over Human as engineer just because I don't think Chaar actually look fitting or good as engineers.

Blood Legion offers the more old school "savage warrior" schtick for charr.

Iron Legion charr engineers are all over the place, especially the Black Citadel. Most of the standard Charr in the Cultural Tier 1 medium armor (i.e., Drover set) in various blue and black shades are probably engineers. In the open world, you will often see these NPCs lobbing grenades or dropping turrets. If you pick Iron Legion, you develop your own anti-ghost gun that either gets retooled as cannons or deployable field turrets. But more importantly, Iron Legion developed the charr siege tanks and made or contributed to the development of many of the other machine marvels of Guild Wars: e.g., helicopters, pact airships, etc.

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I'm a long time paper and pencil RPG DM and the fact is, you can rationalize anything. Some of the contra-grain makes for some great characterization even. That said, for vanilla pairings, humans are usually the versatile race and can be any class, though you could argue revenant is so particular to the lore that it is better for char, the concept seems to fit any race except possible sylvari depending on how you view their post death experience.

Asura are obviously the technocrats so engineer is fit, as is thief (clever and small), elementalist or mesmer (brain over brawn, maybe more booksih ele than mesmer)

Sylvari seem to be a good fit for ranger or perhaps a nature oriented sneak (thief) but given their curiosity you could make a case of any class, although to me, rev seems a hard fit.

Charr are also technologists, so engineer, but certainly any heavy class (warrior, rev, guardian). Other classes seem to be against the grain, but again, that makes for an interesting character, so why not?

Norn are, to me, in spirit vikings. So warriors, thieves (merchants), elementalist. necromancers and mesmer (all these light armor classes could be variations on Norse priests) are great fits. Eng seems unlikely (but of course makes a great story to explain why a norn is an engineer). Ranger certainly fits the backwoods, self-sufficent mold.

Anyway, for me, there are some natural profession-race alignments but you can make anything work with a little cleverness and the cross-race professions might offer the most interest story.

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I think the cultural armor might give some hints about which classes go best with who. The assassin/ninja style armor for human medium armor is a dead giveaway that thief belongs primarily on the human side. I think what also sells it even before that is the thief-like bandits that are everywhere in the human lands.

Although I don't see anything in the chaar medium cultural armor that screams "engineer". Which is an unfortunate oversight.

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Supposedly, ArenaNet had a chart which showed which professions were common, uncommon, and rare among various races. We haven't been given many details on what was on that chart, though.

Here are my thoughts, based partly on observation and partly by what I know of the races:

(Note on revenants and warriors in summaries: Revenants, due to their recent appearance, are probably still the rarest of the professions by far. For the purpose of comparison, I'm listed their presence as relative to the number of revenants that are actually present: revenants being listed as 'common' for charr, for instance, is probably more accurately considered to mean that revenants are commonly charr rather than the other way around. Conversely, warriors seem to be the most common fighting profession by a significant margin, probably because in-universe it's a relatively easy profession to get into. For the purpose of comparing the prevalence of these professions within a race, warriors should be bumped up a category, and revenants should be bumped down a category. Similar comments could be made broadly about guardians and scholars (which are generally less common than more mundane professions, except among asura) on the one hand, and rangers and thieves on the other.)

Asura: It's been noted that asura, like sylvari, have no hangups about necromancy. Being a research-oriented race, all three scholar professions are fairly common. Engineers are also fairly common due to how much technology is involved, even though a lot of asura tech is more magically-oriented and scholars might be contributing just as much if not more. This is reflected in the asura NPCs we tend to see: most of the time, they're scholar professions or engineers. Thieves are also common, often as espionage agents, but it's unclear whether they're common among the asura generally, or among organisations that the PCs often interact with (such as the Inquest and the Order of Whispers). Soldier professions and rangers are rare, but present. On revenants specifically, asura are probably the least likely to be interested in this profession: they're more inclined towards self-reliance and looking to the future rather than tying themselves to the mumbo-jumbo of the past.

Summary:Common: Elementalist, engineer, mesmer, necromancer.Uncommon: Thief.Rare: Guardian, ranger, revenant, warrior.

Charr: It's probably clearest to divide charr among the legions with their different specialisations:

Ash: The Ash Legion focuses on covert ops, making thieves a natural fit. They also seem to be the legion in good standing with the least distrust towards magic - necromancers and mesmers are both reasonably common among the Ash Legion.

Blood: The Blood Legion focuses on frontline combat, making warriors their specialty, but most charr beastmasters (and therefore rangers) also come from the Blood Legion. There's a good chance that revenants are most common among the Blood Legion due to Rytlock's influence.

Iron: The bulk of the Iron Legion seems to be warriors and engineers. Guardians, interestingly, come up as stock NPCs, but I think that's in part because they wanted a clear distinction between the stock Iron Legion melee NPC and the stock Blood Legion melee NPC. Due to greater exposure to humans, the Iron Legion probably does have more guardians than other legions, but other information we have suggests that guardians are generally rare among the charr.

Flame: The Flame Legion's heavy use of elementalists probably make that profession one of the most distrusted among the (rest of the) charr, with the exception of the Olmakhan.

Summary:Common: Engineer, revenant, thief, warrior.Uncommon: Mesmer, necromancer, ranger.Rare: Elementalist, guardian.

Human:

All GW1 professions are naturally going to be present among humans, and they've also picked up a bit of engineering. We have been told, however, that necromancers are distrusted among humans, which probably suppresses their numbers (although their connection with Grenth likely prevents them from being persecuted altogether), and rangers seem to be less common than in GW1 (possibly because humans are more urban, possibly simply for mechanical reasons since warriors can be archers now). Conversely, some professions do seem to be markedly more common: warriors are the default in human armed forces, guardians are a profession that originated among humans, and mesmers are common among the nobility - while on the other hand, humans have the most notable criminal element, making thieves also fairly common. The connection between most revenant legends and human history probably makes humans suitable revenants, but this could swing both ways: humans might baulk at channeling legends that are viewed as having been enemies of humanity. Certainly, as yet, we have no indication that revenants have penetrated into human society to any significant degree.

This analysis assumes Krytan and Ascalonian humans: Elonians, Zephyrites, and other cultures are likely to have different tendencies. Zephyrites are probably mostly elementalists, for instance (although Sun acolytes may be closer to guardians), and Elonians probably have a higher frequency of necromancers and rangers (not to mention nonplayable professions like paragons and dervishes).

Summary:Common: Guardian, mesmer, thief, warrior.Uncommon: Elementalist, engineer, ranger, revenant.Rare: Necromancer.

Norn:

The norn focus on personal excellence through hunting and physical combat make rangers and warriors some of the most common professions. Revenants may also become increasingly popular: the norn reverence towards legend would make them a good fit, and unlike humans, they're likely to care little about whether the legend they channel was a hero or a villain, and their good relations with the charr mean that revenants are possibly more likely to filter through into norn society than into other races (but again, AFAIK we've had no indication that this is happening). Like humans, necromancers appear to be distrusted, but their connection to Raven means that they are present. Other professions seem to come up due to connections with the spirits: guardians with Wolf and possibly Bear, thieves and mesmers with Raven and Snow Leopard. Engineers are probably fairly rare: they certainly DO exist, but the norn as a while tend to prefer less technological approaches. Elementalists are hard to pick (outside of Svanirites, obviously) - we don't see them very often, however, and given that the norn don't seem to have any animal spirits associated with the elements directly and elemental spirits were (according to Egil Fireteller) generally regarded as enemies rather than friends, they're probably not all that common.

Summary:Common: Ranger, warrior.Uncommon: Guardian, mesmer, revenant, thief.Rare: Elementalist, engineer, necromancer.

Sylvari:

Most generic sylvari tend to be nature-oriented professions such as rangers and elementalists. Outside of that, sylvari curiosity appears to drive themselves towards learning at least some magic: mesmers and thieves are both fairly prevalent. Straight warriors appear to be uncommon (there's an ambient discussion of the subject in the sylvari outpost in Brisban Wildlands) and necromancers, while not looked down on by sylvari, still seem to be atypical for sylvari according to ArenaNet - both are seen in reasonably large numbers in the Nightmare Court, but the nature of the Nightmare Court might be increasing their frequency relative to regular sylvari. Guardians seem a good fit for their chivalric and courtly nature, and a number of sylvari NPCs are guardians. Sylvari engineers also appear to be against type: everything is new for the sylvari, and most sylvari seem to be more interested in magic and nature than technology. Like most races, there is little evidence of the revenant having spread among the sylvari, but given the influence of Ventari's Tablet among the sylvari, there would probably be interest in following that legend among the sylvari.

Summary:Common: Elementalist, ranger.Uncommon: Guardian, mesmer, revenant, thief.Rare: Engineer, necromancer, warrior.

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  • 1 month later...

I just recently got into GW2 and im having a little trouble on picking something that i want to stick with. I tried a human necromancer but the male human voice just didnt fit at all, he sounds like such a pansy do-gooder. Doesnt fit necromancers. Also the story i was going trough being a street rat didnt fit either.

Since then i have been trying out the Charr and i have them figured out, basically warrior, thief and engineer are the best fits for Charr.I have looked into the Norn a little bit and it seems like Ranger would be the best fit there but warrior and guardian would probably pass.Asura and Sylvari i dont think have any good fit tbh... Sylvari maybe ranger but thats about it. You could say Elementalist but honestly a plant creature dishing out fire? That doesnt mesh in my eyes.I was thinking Asura engineer but the thing is the they should be able to come up with better weaponry being all smart like that. Yeah i dont know about Asura. Might just ignore Asura and Sylvari.

Basically necromancer, Elementalist and Mesmer im having a hard time placing. Even through i would like to play the classes i cant seem to fit them anywhere.

Im just one of those people, it has to make sense. Even my character name has to make sense, i facepalm every time i see someone running around with something like "Mega Man Bazooka".

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@Zeusx.2906 said:Basically necromancer, Elementalist and Mesmer im having a hard time placing. Even through i would like to play the classes i cant seem to fit them anywhere.

To drop a few suggestions:

Necromancer is a profession which is sort of vaguely unpopular among all races, but for different reasons. Skipping over humans, since you've already tried that and it didn't fit for you. You'll probably find the same for sylvari as well.

With asura, necromancers are probably less common than elementalists and mesmers, but the asura also have no prejudices, and necromancy has been indicated a few times to be useful for golemancy.

Norn necromancers are in a similar position to human necromancers socially... they aren't really liked, but they are accepted as shamans of Raven.

Charr necromancers are a bit of a wild card. They're probably actually the least disliked of the heavily magical professions among the charr (except, possibly, the revenant, despite the deep irony inherent there): they seem historically to have been associated with the Ash Legion more than the Flame Legion, and in GW2's time period they remain quite common among the Ash Legion, although they tend to focus on blood magic rather than summoning minions.

While none of the PC voices really have the 'creepy' aspect often associated with necromancers, you might find the gruffer voice of the male charr suitable. I don't have a male norn, so I can't really comment on their suitability.

Regarding elementalist and mesmer:

You're pretty much looking at human, asura, or sylvari for these if you don't want to play 'against type'. Norn and charr examples exist, but are quite rare among playable factions.

Both are quite common among asura, and if anything, these professions are probably more important for a lot of asura magitech than straight engineers: ultimately, while the big distinction about the asura is that they treat magic as a science (compared to the more intuitive approach other races take), their devices owe more to enchantments than to conventional technology. There's a good chance that key components of asura gates are actually made by mesmer artificers, and the various lightning guns and such you tend to see around asura bases might be being enchanted by elementalists. Certainly, if you observe friendly asura NPCs in combat, you'll see a fair few elementalists and mesmers.

Mesmers are fairly common among the human aristocracy, particularly women: Jennah, Anise, Kasmeer, and Valette are all mesmers before we even get into enemy mesmers, and with that many important mesmers being human noblewomen, I think that does establish a trend. Human elementalists are a bit less in the spotlight, but you can certainly see them around if you look for them: notably, priestesses of Dwayna now appear to be mostly elementalists if you get them in combat.

For sylvari: elementalists are actually one of the possible builds for nameless Wardens. They do prefer earth over fire, but I would note that while sylvari are plants, they are generally greener plants that aren't any more susceptible to burning than humans. If that's a combination that doesn't sit right with you, though, I won't argue. When it comes to mesmers... sylvari also have a few prominent mesmers, even if the ones I can think of offhand are Nightmare Court (although I think Malomedies is also a mesmer, but I'm not certain on that one). It's worth keeping in mind that the sylvari are strongly influenced by Celtic fey and are generally interested in magic more than more physical approaches, so the mesmer focus on illusion and misdirection fits well there.

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@draxynnic.3719 said:Norn:

The norn focus on personal excellence through hunting and physical combat make rangers and warriors some of the most common professions. Revenants may also become increasingly popular: the norn reverence towards legend would make them a good fit, and unlike humans, they're likely to care little about whether the legend they channel was a hero or a villain, and their good relations with the charr mean that revenants are possibly more likely to filter through into norn society than into other races (but again, AFAIK we've had no indication that this is happening). Like humans, necromancers appear to be distrusted, but their connection to Raven means that they are present. Other professions seem to come up due to connections with the spirits: guardians with Wolf and possibly Bear, thieves and mesmers with Raven and Snow Leopard. Engineers are probably fairly rare: they certainly DO exist, but the norn as a while tend to prefer less technological approaches. Elementalists are hard to pick (outside of Svanirites, obviously) - we don't see them very often, however, and given that the norn don't seem to have any animal spirits associated with the elements directly and elemental spirits were (according to Egil Fireteller) generally regarded as enemies rather than friends, they're probably not all that common.

Summary:Common: Ranger, warrior.Uncommon: Guardian, mesmer, revenant, thief.Rare: Elementalist, engineer, necromancer.

I don't agree with this list at all.- Necromancers are, by no means, distrusted in any of the races. They use dark magic, but that doesn't mean that magic is bad.- I mean, look, the biggest goody-two-shoes in the game was a Necro (Traeharne, RIP) and one of the Primeval Queens was also a Necro.- But going back to the norn topic:Elementalist and Necromancers are by no means rare. They enter under Raven's view and Raven is one of the four main Spirits of the Wild, Raven is known for its connection with the dead so Necromancers are natural followers and he is also known for his scholary tendencies so Elementalists aren't supossed to be rare either.

I would argue that, if we wanted to go for rare (Or better said, not stereotypical) professions, then those would be thief, mesmer and engineer, but even then I would be mostly wrong because thieves fall under Snow Leopard (another major spirit)

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@JTHMRulez.9378 said:

@draxynnic.3719 said:Norn:

The norn focus on personal excellence through hunting and physical combat make rangers and warriors some of the most common professions. Revenants may also become increasingly popular: the norn reverence towards legend would make them a good fit, and unlike humans, they're likely to care little about whether the legend they channel was a hero or a villain, and their good relations with the charr mean that revenants are possibly more likely to filter through into norn society than into other races (but again, AFAIK we've had no indication that this is happening). Like humans, necromancers appear to be distrusted, but their connection to Raven means that they are present. Other professions seem to come up due to connections with the spirits: guardians with Wolf and possibly Bear, thieves and mesmers with Raven and Snow Leopard. Engineers are probably fairly rare: they certainly DO exist, but the norn as a while tend to prefer less technological approaches. Elementalists are hard to pick (outside of Svanirites, obviously) - we don't see them very often, however, and given that the norn don't seem to have any animal spirits associated with the elements directly and elemental spirits were (according to Egil Fireteller) generally regarded as enemies rather than friends, they're probably not all that common.

Summary:Common: Ranger, warrior.Uncommon: Guardian, mesmer, revenant, thief.Rare: Elementalist, engineer, necromancer.

I don't agree with this list at all.- Necromancers are, by no means, distrusted in any of the races. They use dark magic, but that doesn't mean that magic is bad.- I mean, look, the biggest goody-two-shoes in the game was a Necro (Traeharne, RIP) and one of the Primeval Queens was also a Necro.- But going back to the norn topic:Elementalist and Necromancers are by no means rare. They enter under Raven's view and Raven is one of the four main Spirits of the Wild, Raven is known for its connection with the dead so Necromancers are natural followers and he is also known for his scholary tendencies so Elementalists aren't supossed to be rare either.

I would argue that, if we wanted to go for rare (Or better said, not stereotypical) professions, then those would be thief, mesmer and engineer, but even then I would be mostly wrong because thieves fall under Snow Leopard (another major spirit)

We've seen evidence of norn having some dislike of necromancy, in GW1 and in Ghosts of Ascalon. It's tempered by being associated with Raven (similar how among humans, Grenth's favour limits just how much people distrust necromancers), and it's probably not as strong since norn don't have the history of being victimised by undead that humans do, but norn seem to be just as wigged out by the idea of them or their friends and family being made into undead as Krytans and Ascalonians are (although the norn principle of not assigning guilt by association is that they won't judge anybody just for being a necromancer until they do something that's taboo). It's also worth noting that Raven seems to be third among the norn spirits, behind Bear and Wolf, so Raven's favour isn't going to translate into widespread popularity.

When it comes to elementalists... it's mostly that we just generally don't see them. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any norn elementalist NPCs in EOTN, and while I'm pretty sure I've seen an NPC norn elementalist somewhere in GW2 (not counting Svanir shamans, since they're hardly representative of the norn in general and it's arguable if they're really elementalists at all), I can't remember where.

Mesmers and thieves, as you note, work for Snow Leopard... and for Raven (one of the hero points in Snowden is a Raven mesmer who went rogue, IIRC, and Raven appreciates trickery in general). Overall, my observation is that while norn scholars are uncommon in general, when you do see them, there's actually a good chance of them being mesmers. I haven't done a thorough analysis, so it's possible that if I went through every norn in the wiki (I'm... not going to do that) I'd find that the ratio of norn mesmers to other scholars is lower than I thought, but that's certainly my impression.

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:Asura actually strike me as fitting guardian pretty well with the Asura we've met and it being the most conventionally magic focused of the soldier professions.

I think it's probably more fitting than warrior, and asura certainly would appreciate a profession that throws around forcefields like guardians do, but we still don't see that many of them. Being a race that is both fairly secular and fairly individualistic, it's likely that it's rare for asura to manifest the level of faith that empowers guardian magic.

I think I did consider bumping asura guardians up to 'uncommon' on the basis that, despite this, the ratio of guardians to warriors might still be higher than you'd normally expect, but I didn't really have evidence to back that up - like norn elementalists, off the top of my head I can't name any NPC asura guardians.

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@"JTHMRulez.9378" said:I don't agree with this list at all.- Necromancers are, by no means, distrusted in any of the races. They use dark magic, but that doesn't mean that magic is bad.- I mean, look, the biggest goody-two-shoes in the game was a Necro (Traeharne, RIP) and one of the Primeval Queens was also a Necro.-

Nahlah and Dahlah aren't exactly prime examples since they're ancient historical figures. But there were actually a bit of lore about how humanity has grown distant to necromancy due to the heavy use of it in negative light - mainly Joko, the Foefire ghosts, and both the rising and sinking of Orr.

As for norn disliking necormancy, this largely comes from one quest in Eye of the North: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Avarr_the_Fallen This shows that the norn actually have a bit of a distaste for necromancers that use the corpses of others for their own gain. Probably a whole "spitting in the face of another's legend" or the like.

In Ghosts of Ascalon, this is also remarked upon with how every race but sylvari view necromancy as at least creepy, when Killeen commands a fresh Ebon Vanguard corpse without asking anyone.

There's no overarching "necromancy is eeeevil!" commentation, but there is a pretty widespread "I'm creeped out by it", which even exists in GW1 in the pre-Searing trainers, with how both Ciglo and Sebedoh have dissing comments about necromancy (and almost all of the trainers have issues with Verata, but that may just be Verata). Just to name a few more iconic instances. And this unsettling has gotten worse for humans (particularly Krytans and Elonian refugees in DR).

And of course, charr hate and distrust all magic.

If one had to rank levels of distrust to trust for necromancy among the races, it'd probably be:

  • Charr
  • Norn/Human
  • Asura
  • Sylvari

@"JTHMRulez.9378" said:But going back to the norn topic:Elementalist and Necromancers are by no means rare. They enter under Raven's view and Raven is one of the four main Spirits of the Wild, Raven is known for its connection with the dead so Necromancers are natural followers and he is also known for his scholary tendencies so Elementalists aren't supossed to be rare either.

I would argue that, if we wanted to go for rare (Or better said, not stereotypical) professions, then those would be thief, mesmer and engineer, but even then I would be mostly wrong because thieves fall under Snow Leopard (another major spirit)

It's actually necromancers and mesmers that fall under Raven. And thieves fall under Snow Leopard (probably mesmers too). We don't really have a solid place for elementalist (elementalists are not innately "scholarly" btw, that's just the human Ascalonian view of them - Canthans, for example, are more about raw power than scholarship and they even mock scholarly elementalists), from what I recall off-hand. But the Spirits of the Wild aren't exactly patrons of professions unlike the Six Gods.

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:In Ghosts of Ascalon, this is also remarked upon with how every race but sylvari view necromancy as at least creepy, when Killeen commands a fresh Ebon Vanguard corpse without asking anyone.

It was pretty much just the humans and norn in GoA. Kranxx and Ember both had a fairly practical attitude towards it, with Ember even saying that using the woman's corpse to do some good was a good way to honour her life.

Of course, Ember is Ash Legion, so her attitude might not match that of Iron or Blood charr.

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@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

As for norn disliking necormancy, this largely comes from one quest in Eye of the North: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Avarr_the_Fallen This shows that the norn actually have a bit of a distaste for necromancers that use the corpses of others for their own gain. Probably a whole "spitting in the face of another's legend" or the like.

That quest is hardly valid right now, however, as one of the big plot points for norn is that their culture has slightly changed thanks to what happened in the Far Shiverpeaks with Jormag. Before that, Bear was the main and most revered Spirit of the Wild. However after the actions taken by the rest of the Spirits they took a seat of precedence alongside Bear. It is undoubtfully that Necromancy may be seen as "creepy" but that doesn't mean Norn dislike it.

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@JTHMRulez.9378 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

As for norn disliking necormancy, this largely comes from one quest in Eye of the North:
This shows that the norn actually have a bit of a distaste for necromancers that use the corpses of others for their own gain. Probably a whole "spitting in the face of another's legend" or the like.

That quest is hardly valid right now, however, as one of the big plot points for norn is that their culture has slightly changed thanks to what happened in the Far Shiverpeaks with Jormag. Before that, Bear was the main and most revered Spirit of the Wild. However after the actions taken by the rest of the Spirits they took a seat of precedence alongside Bear. It is undoubtfully that Necromancy may be seen as "creepy" but that doesn't mean Norn dislike it.

Raven was always a major spirit, even if Bear got more screentime in GW1. His position didn't really change over the games. It was only Snow Leopard's.

And think about it, how many norn necromancers NPCs does one even see in the game? I can think of only two: Raven's havroun and the hermit near Shadow Behemoth's spawn.

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@JTHMRulez.9378 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

As for norn disliking necormancy, this largely comes from one quest in Eye of the North:
This shows that the norn actually have a bit of a distaste for necromancers that use the corpses of others for their own gain. Probably a whole "spitting in the face of another's legend" or the like.

That quest is hardly valid right now, however, as one of the big plot points for norn is that their culture has slightly changed thanks to what happened in the Far Shiverpeaks with Jormag. Before that, Bear was the main and most revered Spirit of the Wild. However after the actions taken by the rest of the Spirits they took a seat of precedence alongside Bear. It is undoubtfully that Necromancy may be seen as "creepy" but that doesn't mean Norn dislike it.

Ghosts of Ascalon shows that the attitude still remains.

It is worth noting, however, that there is nothing actively preventing norn from becoming necromancers (maybe they're less magically proficient as a culture, but that's hard to say for sure). Norn don't like the idea of they or people they know being animated as minions, but since norn don't believe in guilt by association, a norn necromancer who doesn't do that would be fine. Avarr was a bounty target because he did.

Numbers, however, are an indicator. ArenaNet has indicated that while they don't put restrictions on PCs, they know that certain race/profession combinations are more common than others and account for this in NPC placement, with the lowest category being 'only use this combination if you have a reason for it'. The rarity of norn necromancers seems to indicate that they're in that category.

(Note that it's not a perfect indicator, since we do know that there are things that exist that aren't shown ingame. Like Seraph who aren't heavy armour professions.)

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This is an interesting discussion, but as a player I'd approach this completely differently. The game is deliberately designed so that any race and profession combination is valid, both mechanically and in lore (which is perhaps part of why you can't play as a Monk or Dervish - although there were non-Human Monks and Dervishes in GW1). To me, how common different professions are amongst certain races isn't so important, since your character is supposed to be exceptional anyway, and an unusual combination could inform a more interesting character design.

So personally, I would actually decide based on which armour and weapons choices I think look good with particular races. This is particularly relevant if there are cultural armour sets you want to use. Recently whenever I've made a new character, I've taken them to the bank as soon as possible and previewed things in the wardrobe to make sure there's an armour and weapons combination that I like the look of. I didn't do this at the beginning, and in hindsight I would have chosen different professions for a couple of my early characters, based on the armour sets that they can get.

Of course, this is more to do with which races and professions (I think) go together aesthetically, rather than thematically. But thematically I can imagine pretty much any combination working. The only thing I struggle with is some of the Revenant legends: I can imagine any of the five races invoking Glint, and most of them invoking Jalis and Ventari - but I find it hard to imagine a non-human deciding to invoke Shiro, or anyone at all invoking Mallyx the Unyielding...

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@"Tommo Chocolate.5870" said:The only thing I struggle with is some of the Revenant legends: I can imagine any of the five races invoking Glint, and most of them invoking Jalis and Ventari - but I find it hard to imagine a non-human deciding to invoke Shiro, or anyone at all invoking Mallyx the Unyielding...

Revenant is an interesting case: intuitively, for instance, I would expect charr to be the most anti-revenant, since the allied charr legions are all about having independence from supernatural entities and revenant is about, well, channeling the power of supernatural entities. The fact that Rytlock was the first seems to have ameliorated it, but I was expecting Rytlock coming back as a revenant to have more of an effect on his standing among the legions than them just wanting to get his story.

From an intuitive basis, I'd expect norn and humans to probably be the most interested in being revenants (core revenants, anyway).

Norn have their attitude of the legend being more important than whether the entity is viewed as a hero or villain, or even who's legend it is. Revenant legends are all entities that have had such an impact that their legend has been mirrored in the Mists: I can easily see norn going "I want a piece of that!" and becoming revenants.

For human revenants, I see it as mostly being a "reverence of Kormir" thing. Worshippers of Kormir might see wrestling with the echo of Mallyx as a holy rite, leading to better understanding of the trials that Kormir faced.

For other races... in a lot of cases, it probably comes down to a question of practicality. Sylvari are curious, so they might feel pulled towards assuming legends outside what you would normally expect a sylvari to be drawn to purely to satisfy that curiosity. Ventari would naturally be popular, and the heroism of Jalis and Glint, but I could also see the fallen hero of Shiro as being of interest to the Arthurian-mythos-inspired sylvari. Post-Mordremoth, they might even feel a certain kinship with Shiro, once a hero, but manipulated into becoming a villain.

An asura historian might have a similar attitude, or a scholar focusing on the Mists might become a revenant as a means of studying the Mists firsthand, and every legend is a new point of data, however distasteful that legend's actions might have been in life.

A charr revenant channeling Mallyx or even Shiro might even take a certain grim satisfaction in the irony chaining to his or her will the echoes of beings that were once generals of the god who used the charr as puppets... or they might just view it through a lens of pure practicality.

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

As for norn disliking necormancy, this largely comes from one quest in Eye of the North:
This shows that the norn actually have a bit of a distaste for necromancers that use the corpses of others for their own gain. Probably a whole "spitting in the face of another's legend" or the like.

That quest is hardly valid right now, however, as one of the big plot points for norn is that their culture has slightly changed thanks to what happened in the Far Shiverpeaks with Jormag. Before that, Bear was the main and most revered Spirit of the Wild. However after the actions taken by the rest of the Spirits they took a seat of precedence alongside Bear. It is undoubtfully that Necromancy may be seen as "creepy" but that doesn't mean Norn dislike it.

Raven was always a major spirit, even if Bear got more screentime in GW1. His position didn't really change over the games. It was only Snow Leopard's.

And think about it, how many norn necromancers NPCs does one even see in the game? I can think of only two: Raven's havroun and the hermit near Shadow Behemoth's spawn.

I think the fact that Raven's Havroun, a position of inmense power and prestigue amongst norn who follow Raven (and even those who don't) is enough indicator that there is a strong association with Raven and Necromancy, as well as to say that Necromancers aren't all that strange or badly seen. Much less to the point of being so distrusted.

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