Ever going to fix Berserker? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Ever going to fix Berserker?

Apolo.5942Apolo.5942 Member ✭✭✭

Ever since the patch that changed Primal burst skills to be 1 adrenaline bar, the spec is essentially been pretty much dead in every game mode.

Conditions need to be normalized:
1- SINGLE PLAYER conditions stack on DURATION.
2- MULTIPLE PLAYERS conditions stack on INTENSITY.
3- REBALANCE condition duration, damage and application.

<1

Comments

  • Gandrogh.1530Gandrogh.1530 Member ✭✭
    edited February 1, 2018

    Why dead ? in PVP ? PVE ?
    You get so much F1 spam in Berzerker mod that you alway get the 3 stacks of Berserk Power.

    And for PVP I agree it's a nerf but if you want your lvl3 burst then run core warrior. As simple as that.

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Razor.6392 said:
    I guess the 3 above posters have never stepped into spvp even once.

    but PvP itself is dead anyway :P

  • Zaraki.5784Zaraki.5784 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Aside from PvE (where it's used as condi), it's dead in both PvP and WvW.

    "Sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never be able to injure you!"
    The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy

  • Oglaf.1074Oglaf.1074 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2018

    The problem with Power Warrior is that you pretty much need Strength for Berserker's Power in order to get any kind of damage and the nerf to Primal Bursts hit that hard - and Discipline is an all-around more useful third traitline since it allows you to pump out more Bursts in general, thus keeping Berserker's Power (and Adrenal Health if you go for it) up at max stacks 24/7.

    Berserker just cannot compete with that.

    Please Anet give us a hide Chest Armour-option. Tattoo-clad Norns everywhere beg of you.

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TheSlothArmada.6709 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    Please define dead


    Power berserker

    You mean my greatsword plus hammer berserker statted berserker with lots of power?
    Which pumelled balthazar into the ground with no sweat?
    (Given, we had a special sword then, but i also pumelled everything from thr amnoon oasis to his stage into the ground)

    Hence, there's nothing dead about the power berserker but your personal desire not to play it

    To defeat the dragons, see the good in them.
    Zhaitan reunites lost ones, primordus creates fertile land, mordremoth spreads the green, and jormag..
    ..jormag? Who's that?

  • Apolo.5942Apolo.5942 Member ✭✭✭

    @Oglaf.1074 said:
    The problem with Power Warrior is that you pretty much need Strength for Berserker's Power in order to get any kind of damage and the nerf to Primal Bursts hit that hard - and Discipline is an all-around more useful third traitline since it allows you to pump out more Bursts in general, thus keeping Berserker's Power (and Adrenal Health if you go for it) up at max stacks 24/7.

    Berserker just cannot compete with that.

    So much truth

    Conditions need to be normalized:
    1- SINGLE PLAYER conditions stack on DURATION.
    2- MULTIPLE PLAYERS conditions stack on INTENSITY.
    3- REBALANCE condition duration, damage and application.

  • It still has great offense and so it still finds a place in PvE. But nerfing the bursts to only tier one crushed both AH and CI - important defensive traits for PvP and WvW. Also, Burst Mastery no longer works when in Berserker mode (they broke it in the same patch with the big nerf). I'm very sad my Berserker is no longer competitive in WvW. So please Warriors, at least keep testing and reporting the Burst Mastery bug. It hasn't even been acknowledged by ANet.

  • Triggymash.9425Triggymash.9425 Member ✭✭
    edited February 3, 2018

    i mained power berserker in pve for a long time, using axe/axe axe/mace, just because its pretty enjoyable, fast pace, fast ramp, very reliable multiple hard cc... but it just doesn't compete condi at all and you need to invest into a lot more selfish or less effective traits to be "optimal".

    i sadly recently changed to condi and its depressingly better... WARRIORS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE RAW BRUTE DAMAGE, not waving a wand around shooting fiery pixie bolts.

    fyi, raiding is not even an option for me as power... not that im keen on raiding anyway, t4 fracs is the extent of my pve'ing and even then people have hissy fits if you're not condi

    if the coming patch buffs power on par with condi, im making no hesitation to return

  • Euthymias.7984Euthymias.7984 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2018

    Make Primal Bursts Lv2 (they clearly dont want it at lv 3 for w/e reason)
    Fix Burst Mastery for Primal Bursts
    Bonus: Remove the cast time nerf on Headbutt

    Would Berserker be viable then?

  • @Oglaf.1074 said:
    The problem with Power Warrior is that you pretty much need Strength for Berserker's Power in order to get any kind of damage and the nerf to Primal Bursts hit that hard - and Discipline is an all-around more useful third traitline since it allows you to pump out more Bursts in general, thus keeping Berserker's Power (and Adrenal Health if you go for it) up at max stacks 24/7.

    Berserker just cannot compete with that.

    But with Berserker's Power on Strength, if you take Bloody Roar on Berserker, you get a flat 24% damage increase instead of the normal 21% from BP when you use your Primal Bursts. Plus the fact that Fatal Frenzy + Blood Reaction would see you hit for much stronger crits, assuming you're using Berserker stats. How can that not compete with a slightly higher uptime on Berserker's power?

    Ranger since Beta. Founder and Co-Leader of Raven's Hollow, a Tarnished Coast RPvE guild created at launch.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Razor.6392 said:
    I guess the 3 above posters have never stepped into spvp even once.

    Berserker is garbage in SPvP but the OP specified "Every game mode."

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • SlippyCheeze.5483SlippyCheeze.5483 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    My main is still a berserker warrior.
    Please define dead

    "I don't like it"

  • I didn't know this was the necro sub forum.

    #nornmodeisbestmode

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @TheSlothArmada.6709 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    Please define dead


    Power berserker

    You mean my greatsword plus hammer berserker statted berserker with lots of power?
    Which pumelled balthazar into the ground with no sweat?
    (Given, we had a special sword then, but i also pumelled everything from thr amnoon oasis to his stage into the ground)

    Hence, there's nothing dead about the power berserker but your personal desire not to play it

    comparing open world pve to anything else lul m8 good joke

    berserker is dead in pvp and wvw since those changes and all those ppl saying its still alive have never played those modes before and/or are only caring about condi pve meta (its viable there, ok)

    @Gandrogh.1530 said:
    Why dead ? in PVP ? PVE ?
    You get so much F1 spam in Berzerker mod that you alway get the 3 stacks of Berserk Power.

    And for PVP I agree it's a nerf but if you want your lvl3 burst then run core warrior. As simple as that.

    great argument, instead of fixing an entire espec for which we paid, mind you, just play the core variant...thank god you arent in the balancibg team

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @TheSlothArmada.6709 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    Please define dead


    Power berserker

    You mean my greatsword plus hammer berserker statted berserker with lots of power?
    Which pumelled balthazar into the ground with no sweat?
    (Given, we had a special sword then, but i also pumelled everything from thr amnoon oasis to his stage into the ground)

    Hence, there's nothing dead about the power berserker but your personal desire not to play it

    comparing open world pve to anything else lul m8 good joke

    berserker is dead in pvp and wvw since those changes and all those ppl saying its still alive have never played those modes before and/or are only caring about condi pve meta (its viable there, ok)

    You can only cram so much ignorance into a single post before people start to think you’re trolling.
    The warrior, even in power, is still very viable in PvP, and WvW, if you so much spend half as much time practicing the class as you do rolling on the forums

    To defeat the dragons, see the good in them.
    Zhaitan reunites lost ones, primordus creates fertile land, mordremoth spreads the green, and jormag..
    ..jormag? Who's that?

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    great argument, instead of fixing an entire espec for which we paid, mind you, just play the core variant...thank god you arent in the balancibg team

    This. I played berserker after HoT release. It loved it, but eventually I quit playing gw2 for several months. When I returned a few weeks ago (and bought PoF before trying things out like a dunce) and got back on my warrior I was more than a little ticked off to find out that the spec I payed money for had been nerfed into the dirt to make room for spellbreaker. Oh sure, I CAN play beserker ANYWHERE if I want and eventually get decent at it if I put lots of time into it. I payed extra money for it though, I want it to be on par with the other elite specs and core and not just be "good 'nough".

    The real issue is that if the game is f2p then the core variants have to be able to stand on par with especs or players will feel like the game is pay to win. On the flip side people that DO pay for especs expect them to at least be as viable as the free core specs if not a tiny bit better. I can pretty much run core warrior anywhere and do very well, it's still top tier. Aside from open world (where you can play whatever, doesnt matter) and raids(which a smaller part of the population plays), there is no reason to play berserker. You can play it (like you COULD play condi scrapper) but for something I payed what I consider to be a lot for money for I expect better balance. I don't want it to be 'op' but just as on par with core, if not a slight bit better. I don't want to have to put it twice as much work as everyone else to play a profession I paid for just because anet can't balance things well. Just my opinions on it.

    "Maining" necromancer now but I play all professions really.
    Lets work together to improve the player's experience.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 27, 2018

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @TheSlothArmada.6709 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    Please define dead


    Power berserker

    You mean my greatsword plus hammer berserker statted berserker with lots of power?
    Which pumelled balthazar into the ground with no sweat?
    (Given, we had a special sword then, but i also pumelled everything from thr amnoon oasis to his stage into the ground)

    Hence, there's nothing dead about the power berserker but your personal desire not to play it

    comparing open world pve to anything else lul m8 good joke

    berserker is dead in pvp and wvw since those changes and all those ppl saying its still alive have never played those modes before and/or are only caring about condi pve meta (its viable there, ok)

    You can only cram so much ignorance into a single post before people start to think you’re trolling.
    The warrior, even in power, is still very viable in PvP, and WvW, if you so much spend half as much time practicing the class as you do rolling on the forums

    ive put more than 5,5k hours into this game, modt of them on warrior (like 4k) and of that time ive spent most of it in wvw zerging and roaming.
    ive never said that power warrior isnt viable, i said power berserker isnt viable in those modes, you should spend more time reading other ppl posts
    everybody who spent just a few hours in pvp can tell you why adrenalin tier nerfs (also casttime nerf on headbut and other small changes) on berserker killed it mostly
    its just not rewarding enough anymore to go into berserker mode, you fill up all your adrenalin and are patient to not use any bursts, enter berserker, lose 2 adrenalin bars without getting any of the benefits that comes with traits for spending adrenalin (adrenal health, cleansing ire, berserkers power for example) and even if ppl say "but oh its so spammy in berserker" you still will have a hard time stacking your regen up
    you know, ppl in pvp tend to dodge, block, blind your f1's, unlike your open world pve mobs
    you lose one measly condition with cleansing ire, after you made no use of it while stacking up your adrenalin to enter berserker
    there is no reason to go berserker when you can go strength instead, get around the same dmg modifiers and even more survivability with mmr

    jfyi metabuilds for pvp modes almost all include disci and defense, leaving one other choice open there is just no space for berserker, when strength and sb are superior in almost every way

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @TheSlothArmada.6709 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    Please define dead


    Power berserker

    You mean my greatsword plus hammer berserker statted berserker with lots of power?
    Which pumelled balthazar into the ground with no sweat?
    (Given, we had a special sword then, but i also pumelled everything from thr amnoon oasis to his stage into the ground)

    Hence, there's nothing dead about the power berserker but your personal desire not to play it

    comparing open world pve to anything else lul m8 good joke

    berserker is dead in pvp and wvw since those changes and all those ppl saying its still alive have never played those modes before and/or are only caring about condi pve meta (its viable there, ok)

    You can only cram so much ignorance into a single post before people start to think you’re trolling.
    The warrior, even in power, is still very viable in PvP, and WvW, if you so much spend half as much time practicing the class as you do rolling on the forums

    ive put more than 5,5k hours into this game, modt of them on warrior (like 4k) and of that time ive spent most of it in wvw zerging and roaming.
    ive never said that power warrior isnt viable, i said power berserker isnt viable in those modes, you should spend more time reading other ppl posts

    So do you, because I was explicitly talking about wvw and pvp.
    I’ve also put in a small 4k, in PvE, WvW, raids, PvP, so I’m prety sure I know how to handle a warrior in difficult situations

    everybody who spent just a few hours in pvp can tell you why adrenalin tier nerfs (also casttime nerf on headbut and other small changes) on berserker killed it mostly

    Which makes it less good in top tier PvP and WvW, but still viable for low gold, and roaming in WvW

    To defeat the dragons, see the good in them.
    Zhaitan reunites lost ones, primordus creates fertile land, mordremoth spreads the green, and jormag..
    ..jormag? Who's that?

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 27, 2018

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @TheSlothArmada.6709 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    Please define dead


    Power berserker

    You mean my greatsword plus hammer berserker statted berserker with lots of power?
    Which pumelled balthazar into the ground with no sweat?
    (Given, we had a special sword then, but i also pumelled everything from thr amnoon oasis to his stage into the ground)

    Hence, there's nothing dead about the power berserker but your personal desire not to play it

    comparing open world pve to anything else lul m8 good joke

    berserker is dead in pvp and wvw since those changes and all those ppl saying its still alive have never played those modes before and/or are only caring about condi pve meta (its viable there, ok)

    You can only cram so much ignorance into a single post before people start to think you’re trolling.
    The warrior, even in power, is still very viable in PvP, and WvW, if you so much spend half as much time practicing the class as you do rolling on the forums

    ive put more than 5,5k hours into this game, modt of them on warrior (like 4k) and of that time ive spent most of it in wvw zerging and roaming.
    ive never said that power warrior isnt viable, i said power berserker isnt viable in those modes, you should spend more time reading other ppl posts

    So do you, because I was explicitly talking about wvw and pvp.
    I’ve also put in a small 4k, in PvE, WvW, raids, PvP, so I’m prety sure I know how to handle a warrior in difficult situations

    everybody who spent just a few hours in pvp can tell you why adrenalin tier nerfs (also casttime nerf on headbut and other small changes) on berserker killed it mostly

    Which makes it less good in top tier PvP and WvW, but still viable for low gold, and roaming in WvW

    you said "power warrior is still viable..." thus not specifically going for berserker and the fact that almost nobody is playing berserker atm says enough about the spec, you might be a special snowflake playing this spec, its still way below sb and core
    you didnt bring any argument to the table why anyone should play berserker over the other 2.
    low gold, wow, you consider everything above that high tier pvp? youd probably still be higher anyways with spellbreaker...

    its not even fun anymore when it just feels punishing to play, you cant rly use your burst skills, because you want to go into berserker, thus not getting your traits, and when you finally enter berserker, your primal bursts only count as tier1 bursts, thats a lose lose situation

  • wraith.7243wraith.7243 Member ✭✭
    edited June 28, 2018

    @Red Haired Savage.5430 said:
    I didn't know this was the necro sub forum.

    This comment wins!

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Red Haired Savage.5430 said:
    I didn't know this was the necro sub forum.

    only if we get atleast 500 more threads like this, necros reached 1k threads a few days ago, while warrior hasnt even reached 500 :^)

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 28, 2018

    Continuous nerfs, shifting METAs and the introduction of more powerful elites without any buffs to the old basically removed it from all modes but certain instanced PvE content.
    And of course, there is always this one guy in these topics - no matter which build or class we are talking about. You know the guy. He makes it work somehow and to a small degree but that does not change the facts in the end. Simply shows how stubborn people can be. Necromancer forum says 'hi'.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Theoretically a berserker can have as much sustain as a scourge and a moving damaging aoe. So I guess it should already be meta and people should probably complain about how op it is, theoretically.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 28, 2018

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Red Haired Savage.5430 said:
    I didn't know this was the necro sub forum.

    only if we get atleast 500 more threads like this, necros reached 1k threads a few days ago, while warrior hasnt even reached 500 :^)

    ... and you honestly think that's going to accomplish something. The worst thing here is that some warrior players think they have it tough ... like when the drunk rich kid crashes his Ferrari. You don't know how many people play berserker and how they do with it in the game modes they use it. The only argument that anyone needs to bring of why people should play berserker over the other two is because they like it and are good with it. Arguing that a specific espec isn't good in a particular game mode is not relevant for why people shouldn't use it.

    Even if the original complaint was true, it's irrelevant anyways. Find me a SINGLE class were every elite , including core, is not dead in every game mode. OP is complaining about what is NORMAL in this game and it's ignorant. How do you want to look?

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Red Haired Savage.5430 said:
    I didn't know this was the necro sub forum.

    only if we get atleast 500 more threads like this, necros reached 1k threads a few days ago, while warrior hasnt even reached 500 :^)

    ... and you honestly think that's going to accomplish something. The worst thing here is that some warrior players think they have it tough ... like when the drunk rich kid crashes his Ferrari. You don't know how many people play berserker and how they do with it in the game modes they use it. The only argument that anyone needs to bring of why people should play berserker over the other two is because they like it and are good with it. Arguing that a specific espec isn't good in a particular game mode is not relevant for why people shouldn't use it.

    Even if the original complaint was true, it's irrelevant anyways. Find me a SINGLE class were every elite , including core, is not dead in every game mode. OP is complaining about what is NORMAL in this game and it's ignorant. How do you want to look?

    dunno why you get so angry now, i never said it would accomplish anything, i just answered to his joke in a joking manner, stating a fact i think is funny

    "oh you rich boys with your op class think you have it sooo tough" kitten what class are you playing that is constantly useless and was never in a good state? if you are bothered by the fact that some ppl still feel the need to express what they think is badly done or could be better, than just leave this forum, what are you even doing here,telling ppl to stop talking about a topic they think its worth to talk about? just dont stop, ignore it and keep going. easy.

    also your way of thinking is so sad, just because not everything is in balance right now and probably will never be, doesnt mean that it should just be ignored, because its never balanced anyways "oh yea you balancing devs? nah we dont need you anymore, the game will never be balanced anyways, go get a new job or create some pve or black lion trading company content"

    doesnt matter which class it is, every spec should be somehow viable in a balanced fashion (possible or not) if i was nec main id be talking with other ppl there, it just happens that i main warri and like to talk about that class

    im talking about personal experiences, i havent seen berserker for months in pvp/wvw and that for a good reason in my opinion, because power berserker was completely gutted and is too bad to be compared with core or sb, there are many that agree

    tl;dr
    let ppl discuss stuff, just because the perfect balance will never be reached is no reason to stop trying to get atleast closer to it

  • Oslaf Beinir.5842Oslaf Beinir.5842 Member ✭✭
    edited July 12, 2018

    entering zerker mode counts as consuming 3 bars triggering all the traits.
    start zerker mode with no adrenaline gotta work for it to compensate
    increase base duration of zerker mode and lower base cooldowns of primal burst skills
    done?

  • The biggest problem with zerker is that it isn't Spellbreaker. Spellbreaker does everything Berserker does while having way more utility and survivability.

    If spellbreaker vanished tomorrow an unchanged zerker would be on the upper tier of average for any game mode.

  • Apolo.5942Apolo.5942 Member ✭✭✭

    @Happybee.9807 said:
    The biggest problem with zerker is that it isn't Spellbreaker. Spellbreaker does everything Berserker does while having way more utility and survivability.

    If spellbreaker vanished tomorrow an unchanged zerker would be on the upper tier of average for any game mode.

    No it would not, i would still play core over zerker on both pvp and wvw. Been there done that.

    Conditions need to be normalized:
    1- SINGLE PLAYER conditions stack on DURATION.
    2- MULTIPLE PLAYERS conditions stack on INTENSITY.
    3- REBALANCE condition duration, damage and application.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Happybee.9807 said:
    The biggest problem with zerker is that it isn't Spellbreaker. Spellbreaker does everything Berserker does while having way more utility and survivability.

    If spellbreaker vanished tomorrow an unchanged zerker would be on the upper tier of average for any game mode.

    Berseker just doesn't offer anything besides PvE damage. Everything is either a line shot or telegraphed like Head Butt. Berserker mode is really cool and the burst skills are awesome, but that's where it ends already. Shattering Blow is extremely good too actually.

    But as I said, it's useless beyond that. No real aoe capabilities, no utility at all, everything is just going out right in front of you and will never hit a moving player.

    Smugly chuckling forever.
    My sentence doesn't make sense? Well, I probably forgot to write half of it before posting.

  • sneakytails.5629sneakytails.5629 Member ✭✭✭

    It still works, I use it WvW. The thing is that in WvW every player or group you come across are not all super god players. From that reality alone you can run whatever you want. I run a whole host of Warrior builds, I have 5 right now that are in rotation.

    But even with that reality out of the way, the spec still feels weak. I know the last 4-5 Berserkers that I have fought on my meta Core Warrior all went down super fast and I was hitting just as hard if not harder then they were. Them entering Berserk mode felt like it did not even matter.

    I personally see the spec as a glass cannon at least in Warrior terms, that should be hitting way harder than core. That is not happening right now.

  • Lucentfir.7430Lucentfir.7430 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 14, 2018

    To be fair nerfing Primal Burst counting as 1 Adrenaline bar would have been fine, if they actually made Berserker Mode come with its own specific benefits /decent bonus like 33% reduced Damage and Condi Damage, as well as counting Entering Berserker mode 1 bar of Adrenaline spent. Bloody Roar should have a bigger Damage Modifier like (15% additional Damage, 25% against CC'd foes), or 15% + 25% Crit Chance At the moment Berserker doesn't feel like a rampaging death machine, it feels like the same base warrior, with lesser damage/Survivability and just a bit more CC.

  • Kiroshima.8497Kiroshima.8497 Member ✭✭✭

    Rather than a static damage reduction, why not make Berserker Mode grant delayed damage instead. When in Berserk Mode, the health globe will highlight how much damage is waiting to be taken each tick, as well as the total deferred damage. If you would die, your health bar will turn a different color for you and others to know to heal.

    Reasoning: Berserker damage is fine, with access to both spammy attacks (primals) and tier 3 bursts. What it lacks is damage mitigation. Unlike Spellbreaker, who wants to block and reflect it on his foes, Berserker instead embraces the damage he is about to take, gaining more and more power from more and more damage. There's nothing more dangerous than someone who embraces having half a foot in the Mists.

    Ex:
    Berserk
    33% of incoming damage (including conditions) is taken over 10 seconds instead (applies a debuff called Delayed Pain). Each stack tracks its own original pool of damage, which is important for a couple traits. Damage is treated as power damage and is thusly negated by Endure Pain and similar skills, and will heal the warrior when Defiant Stance is active. Note also that Resistance will prevent you from obtaining stacks from conditions, and Endure Pain (and similar) will prevent you from gaining stacks from power damage. Healing does not counteract the pool, but an counteract the damage ticks. Barrier will not block stacks from accumulating, but does not prevent the delayed damage.

    TRAIT CHANGES

    Adept
    Smash Brawler: Current (not total) Cooldown of Primal Bursts and Berserk reduced by the number of Delayed Pain stacks every second (1% per stack? subject to change).
    Idea: High risk reward, eat more hits, use more Berserk. Good when paired with stances so you can go ham while ignoring Delayed Pain damage, while gaining the cooldown reduction for having many of them.

    Last Blaze: Non-Torch Berserker Skills apply burning, duration increased by the number of Delayed Pain stacks (10% per). If you are downed by Delayed Pain, explode and apply 3 stacks of burning to enemies around you.
    Idea: Convert pain into burning. Upgraded to include Primal Bursts, but doesn't touch torch burning. When you pop from damage, you apply a truly final blaze.

    Savage Instinct:
    Berserk Mode removes 2 conditions and breaks stun. Berserk Mode is available during Berserk, costing 10 adrenaline and refreshing all Delayed Pain stacks on the warrior (updating their pool accordingly, so if you had 5 seconds of 100 damage left, it would go back to 10 seconds of 100 damage per tick).
    Idea: Save yourself now to endanger yourself later. This means that even during Berserk you have access to the stun break and condition removal, but all those Delayed Pain stacks are now even more dangerous to you now (since their duration is refreshed). Basically, is it better to remove the damage from the conditions you have now and eat the delayed pain damage, or is it better to take the condition damage to avoid refreshing Delayed Pain.

    Major
    Blood Reaction: Precision converted to Ferocity. 7% by default, but gains 1% per stack of Delayed Pain.
    Idea: Delayed Pain is only available during Berserk, so you gain more damage the more you take. Pretty boring though.

    Heat the Soul: Torch skills apply your Delayed Pain to enemies, but the damage is capped out by 50% of your health. Enemies with Delayed Pain cannot have it inflicted a second time.
    Idea: An alternative to the Vitality to DPS conversion. The reason it is capped is because in PvE or some WvW scenarios, you can easily acquire more damage than you have health. Having a skill that literally reflects enemy damage out would be pretty risky, so it is instead limited to the Warrior's healthpool. This trait will reward Vitality builds somewhat, even if they don't have a ton of Condition Damage since the reflectable pool is larger.
    Math Example: Full Plaguedoctor Warrior has 30k hp. If you somehow have accumulated 30k damage to your Delayed Pain, you can only send out 15000 damage, or 1500 ticks (because it's over 10 seconds). Compare to 0 vitality warrior with 19k hp, this lets you reflect a max of 9.5k damage (950 damage ticks).

    Dead or Alive: +33% more damage is delayed. If you would die to Delayed Pain, prevent the damage and remove all stacks of Delayed Pain.
    Idea: A truly defensive trait. Except, you still take the damage later. This trait can save you from huge burst by placing it over 10 seconds instead of instantly (gives you time to get those adrenal health stacks before you pop), but remember that Delayed Pain ticks are not easily removed and cannot be prevented except with Endure Pain.

    Grandmaster
    Bloody Roar: Taunt foes whenever you activate Berserk. Remove the most recent stack of Delayed Pain whenever you Taunt or Fear enemies. Taunting or Fearing enemies grants you 10% damage for 5 seconds +2 for every enemy.
    Idea: This warrior is a huge disruptor, and they revel in it. Something that refuses to die is pretty kitten scary after all. Combos naturally with Fear Me and Savage Instinct (lets you recast Berserk, but watch your Delayed Pain stacks).

    King of Fires: All of your combo finishers in a Fire Field grant you Fire Aura at the end of the skill. You are immune to Burning while you have Fire Aura. Fire Aura inflicts 5 seconds of burning on yourself whenever it burns an enemy. Whenever you use a Berserker Skill, detonate your Fire Aura to remove any burning stacks on yourself to inflict burning on nearby foes. Each stack of Burning on yourself counts as a Delayed Pain stack for the purpose of traits and abilities.
    Idea: Really light yourself on fire with Fire Aura. It's no big deal though, since you're immune to burning with Fire Aura active, so hold on to those sweet Delayed Pain bonuses until you can detonate the Aura with any Berserker skill. Works well with Blood Reaction to gain even higher conversion ratios while you're on fire, or Last Blaze for longer burning (Last Blaze applies its duration bonus to the Fire Aura detonation). Combo with an aura share tempest for even more fire, just watch out for your own condi duration if you have any (since if you don't remove the burning with the fire aura, it'll start ticking on you).

    Eternal Champion: 50% of all healing is applied to the oldest, non-0 Delayed Pain pool before healing the warrior, although incoming (aka not your own) heals have a 50% penalty when healing the Delayed Pain pool. Gain stability when breaking a stun and using Berserk. Stability heals you over time.
    Idea: This is your super tank Berserker Mode. Unlike Dead or Alive which just puts the damage later, this one lets you fully negate damage by "healing future damage". Say you take 6k damage from whatever. Normally that puts about 2k damage into your pool. This means you'd take about 200 damage per second. If you receive 2k healing from a blasted water field, 1k would go straight to your health, while 1k would go into the 2k damage pool, reducing it to 1k. This means the rest of the ticks would only be 100 damage per second. Healing like this is done in stack order, enemies can put their high damage later (won't get healed as soon) if they think they are fighting an Eternal Champion warrior, and teammates won't make the warrior invincible due to the huge penalty (they lose 25% of their total healing to the warrior).

    This will never happen, but it's a fun idea. Delayed Damage is an unexplored mechanic for Anet and Berserker is definitely a good place to put it thematically.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Happybee.9807 said:
    The biggest problem with zerker is that it isn't Spellbreaker. Spellbreaker does everything Berserker does while having way more utility and survivability.

    If spellbreaker vanished tomorrow an unchanged zerker would be on the upper tier of average for any game mode.

    No doubt that Spellbreaker is really good, but it's not a Berserker replacement, that's for sure. They play completely different. I couldn't play the two the same way even if I wanted to.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • @Kiroshima.8497 said:
    Rather than a static damage reduction, why not make Berserker Mode grant delayed damage instead. When in Berserk Mode, the health globe will highlight how much damage is waiting to be taken each tick, as well as the total deferred damage. If you would die, your health bar will turn a different color for you and others to know to heal.

    Reasoning: Berserker damage is fine, with access to both spammy attacks (primals) and tier 3 bursts. What it lacks is damage mitigation. Unlike Spellbreaker, who wants to block and reflect it on his foes, Berserker instead embraces the damage he is about to take, gaining more and more power from more and more damage. There's nothing more dangerous than someone who embraces having half a foot in the Mists.

    Ex:
    Berserk
    33% of incoming damage (including conditions) is taken over 10 seconds instead (applies a debuff called Delayed Pain). Each stack tracks its own original pool of damage, which is important for a couple traits. Damage is treated as power damage and is thusly negated by Endure Pain and similar skills, and will heal the warrior when Defiant Stance is active. Note also that Resistance will prevent you from obtaining stacks from conditions, and Endure Pain (and similar) will prevent you from gaining stacks from power damage. Healing does not counteract the pool, but an counteract the damage ticks. Barrier will not block stacks from accumulating, but does not prevent the delayed damage.

    TRAIT CHANGES

    Adept
    Smash Brawler: Current (not total) Cooldown of Primal Bursts and Berserk reduced by the number of Delayed Pain stacks every second (1% per stack? subject to change).
    Idea: High risk reward, eat more hits, use more Berserk. Good when paired with stances so you can go ham while ignoring Delayed Pain damage, while gaining the cooldown reduction for having many of them.

    Last Blaze: Non-Torch Berserker Skills apply burning, duration increased by the number of Delayed Pain stacks (10% per). If you are downed by Delayed Pain, explode and apply 3 stacks of burning to enemies around you.
    Idea: Convert pain into burning. Upgraded to include Primal Bursts, but doesn't touch torch burning. When you pop from damage, you apply a truly final blaze.

    Savage Instinct:
    Berserk Mode removes 2 conditions and breaks stun. Berserk Mode is available during Berserk, costing 10 adrenaline and refreshing all Delayed Pain stacks on the warrior (updating their pool accordingly, so if you had 5 seconds of 100 damage left, it would go back to 10 seconds of 100 damage per tick).
    Idea: Save yourself now to endanger yourself later. This means that even during Berserk you have access to the stun break and condition removal, but all those Delayed Pain stacks are now even more dangerous to you now (since their duration is refreshed). Basically, is it better to remove the damage from the conditions you have now and eat the delayed pain damage, or is it better to take the condition damage to avoid refreshing Delayed Pain.

    Major
    Blood Reaction: Precision converted to Ferocity. 7% by default, but gains 1% per stack of Delayed Pain.
    Idea: Delayed Pain is only available during Berserk, so you gain more damage the more you take. Pretty boring though.

    Heat the Soul: Torch skills apply your Delayed Pain to enemies, but the damage is capped out by 50% of your health. Enemies with Delayed Pain cannot have it inflicted a second time.
    Idea: An alternative to the Vitality to DPS conversion. The reason it is capped is because in PvE or some WvW scenarios, you can easily acquire more damage than you have health. Having a skill that literally reflects enemy damage out would be pretty risky, so it is instead limited to the Warrior's healthpool. This trait will reward Vitality builds somewhat, even if they don't have a ton of Condition Damage since the reflectable pool is larger.
    Math Example: Full Plaguedoctor Warrior has 30k hp. If you somehow have accumulated 30k damage to your Delayed Pain, you can only send out 15000 damage, or 1500 ticks (because it's over 10 seconds). Compare to 0 vitality warrior with 19k hp, this lets you reflect a max of 9.5k damage (950 damage ticks).

    Dead or Alive: +33% more damage is delayed. If you would die to Delayed Pain, prevent the damage and remove all stacks of Delayed Pain.
    Idea: A truly defensive trait. Except, you still take the damage later. This trait can save you from huge burst by placing it over 10 seconds instead of instantly (gives you time to get those adrenal health stacks before you pop), but remember that Delayed Pain ticks are not easily removed and cannot be prevented except with Endure Pain.

    Grandmaster
    Bloody Roar: Taunt foes whenever you activate Berserk. Remove the most recent stack of Delayed Pain whenever you Taunt or Fear enemies. Taunting or Fearing enemies grants you 10% damage for 5 seconds +2 for every enemy.
    Idea: This warrior is a huge disruptor, and they revel in it. Something that refuses to die is pretty kitten scary after all. Combos naturally with Fear Me and Savage Instinct (lets you recast Berserk, but watch your Delayed Pain stacks).

    King of Fires: All of your combo finishers in a Fire Field grant you Fire Aura at the end of the skill. You are immune to Burning while you have Fire Aura. Fire Aura inflicts 5 seconds of burning on yourself whenever it burns an enemy. Whenever you use a Berserker Skill, detonate your Fire Aura to remove any burning stacks on yourself to inflict burning on nearby foes. Each stack of Burning on yourself counts as a Delayed Pain stack for the purpose of traits and abilities.
    Idea: Really light yourself on fire with Fire Aura. It's no big deal though, since you're immune to burning with Fire Aura active, so hold on to those sweet Delayed Pain bonuses until you can detonate the Aura with any Berserker skill. Works well with Blood Reaction to gain even higher conversion ratios while you're on fire, or Last Blaze for longer burning (Last Blaze applies its duration bonus to the Fire Aura detonation). Combo with an aura share tempest for even more fire, just watch out for your own condi duration if you have any (since if you don't remove the burning with the fire aura, it'll start ticking on you).

    Eternal Champion: 50% of all healing is applied to the oldest, non-0 Delayed Pain pool before healing the warrior, although incoming (aka not your own) heals have a 50% penalty when healing the Delayed Pain pool. Gain stability when breaking a stun and using Berserk. Stability heals you over time.
    Idea: This is your super tank Berserker Mode. Unlike Dead or Alive which just puts the damage later, this one lets you fully negate damage by "healing future damage". Say you take 6k damage from whatever. Normally that puts about 2k damage into your pool. This means you'd take about 200 damage per second. If you receive 2k healing from a blasted water field, 1k would go straight to your health, while 1k would go into the 2k damage pool, reducing it to 1k. This means the rest of the ticks would only be 100 damage per second. Healing like this is done in stack order, enemies can put their high damage later (won't get healed as soon) if they think they are fighting an Eternal Champion warrior, and teammates won't make the warrior invincible due to the huge penalty (they lose 25% of their total healing to the warrior).

    This will never happen, but it's a fun idea. Delayed Damage is an unexplored mechanic for Anet and Berserker is definitely a good place to put it thematically.

    Really like this idea thematically with Beserker. Just a shame it’ll never see the light of day :anguished:

  • Oglaf.1074Oglaf.1074 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 28, 2018

    The biggest problem with Berserker to me is that it is a Condi specialization and Warrior is heavily, heaaaaavily biased towards Power when it comes to weapon options. That makes Berserker so limiting and unfun in my eyes.

    Heck, we don’t even have a proper Condi melee option. Sword is “hybrid” which in my opinion is just trash design. We need a dedicated Condi melee.

    Please Anet give us a hide Chest Armour-option. Tattoo-clad Norns everywhere beg of you.

  • Ferus.3165Ferus.3165 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 29, 2018

    @Oglaf.1074 said:
    The biggest problem with Berserker to me is that it is a Condi specialization and Warrior is heavily, heaaaaavily biased towards Power when it comes to weapon options. That makes Berserker so limiting and unfun in my eyes.

    Heck, we don’t even have a proper Condi melee option. Sword is “hybrid” which in my opinion is just trash design. We need a dedicated Condi melee.

    berserker was also never intended as a condi only spec. it just so happened that over the time, with all the random buffs and nerfs that berserker got hit with, that the power and the tank part of berserker have become so lackluster that the spec is now considered a condi spec. the removal of pulsing stab, the increased cd of burst skills, the increased casting time on gs primal burst and headbutt (aswell as cd increase in pvp) and the fact that burst skills only count as lvl 1 bursts (thus triggering only 1 stack of adrenal health and clearing only 1 condi even though you need 3 bars of adrenaline to activate berserk mode) completely wrecked this spec in wvw/pvp.

    you should get a temp. ban in wvw/pvp if you atempt to go there with berserker in your traitlines.

  • Oglaf.1074Oglaf.1074 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ferus.3165 said:

    @Oglaf.1074 said:
    The biggest problem with Berserker to me is that it is a Condi specialization and Warrior is heavily, heaaaaavily biased towards Power when it comes to weapon options. That makes Berserker so limiting and unfun in my eyes.

    Heck, we don’t even have a proper Condi melee option. Sword is “hybrid” which in my opinion is just trash design. We need a dedicated Condi melee.

    berserker was also never intended as a condi only spec. it just so happened that over the time, with all the random buffs and nerfs that berserker got hit with, that the power and the tank part of berserker have become to lackluster that the spec is now considered a condi spec. the removal of pulsing stab, the increased cd of burst skills, the increased casting time on gs primal burst and headbutt (aswell as cd increase in pvp) and the fact that burst skills only count as lvl 1 bursts (thus triggering only 1 stack of adrenal health and clearing only 1 condi even though you need 3 bars of adrenaline to activate berserk mode) completely wrecked this spec in wvw/pvp.

    Indeed. Spellbreaker brings enough goodies to the table to warrant the dumpstering of the Burst skills. Berserker clearly does not.

    Please Anet give us a hide Chest Armour-option. Tattoo-clad Norns everywhere beg of you.

  • It is sad because it is a great espec thematically. A lot more than spellbreaker imo.

  • Oglaf.1074Oglaf.1074 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aigleborgne.2981 said:
    It is sad because it is a great espec thematically. A lot more than spellbreaker imo.

    I hear that. Headbutt is probably my favorite skill in the game, both functionally and thematically.

    How I wish it was Core - I’m so sick of Signet of Rage. :sleepy:

    Please Anet give us a hide Chest Armour-option. Tattoo-clad Norns everywhere beg of you.

  • Kiroshima.8497Kiroshima.8497 Member ✭✭✭

    Honestly, when you think about it, Signet of Rage's active should be headbutt. Then the passive and active are fairly tied together, slowly generate adrenaline, or burst out 30 adrenaline (and a stun), with no passive adrenaline for 30-40(?) seconds.

    Then we can adjust Signet of Fury to be something useful. Maybe a crit damage buff or something?

  • @Aigleborgne.2981 said:
    It is sad because it is a great espec thematically. A lot more than spellbreaker imo.

    I have to say I love both of the elite specializations thematically. One is a warrior that has figured out how to tap into their rage and melt down their enemies. The others have roots with the Sunspears, who wield daggers symbolizing the broken spearheads.

    But Berserker is criminally nerfed and pretty much useless in sPvP and WvW.

  • @MurkWan.8526 said:

    @Aigleborgne.2981 said:
    It is sad because it is a great espec thematically. A lot more than spellbreaker imo.

    I have to say I love both of the elite specializations thematically. One is a warrior that has figured out how to tap into their rage and melt down their enemies. The others have roots with the Sunspears, who wield daggers symbolizing the broken spearheads.

    But Berserker is criminally nerfed and pretty much useless in sPvP and WvW.

    Exactly to both of these. Spellbreaker doesn't have the same visceral feel as Berserker. Cmon ArenaNet show us some love!

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