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Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged]


Lonami.2987

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@phs.6089 said:

@"TexZero.7910" said:

So how many times have you been to bloodstone fen or ember bay to kill the very obvious easy mode raid bosses that are there ?Do you do it daily / weekly / monthly / or did you give it the college 1 and done experience ?

Because they've given you an easy mode as is. Sorry you dont like the champ bag experience enough to learn and move into raids from it though.

What is does with raids wahtsoever? And I'm sorry I'm one of not many that want easy raids to drop exotics, maybe a chance of ascended weapons so i can carry new guildes trough, help them learn and get them initial gear, trough raiding, not open world braided zerging in sw and istan.

I don't need LI if i needed a leg armor I have enough league tickets to make a set from pvp but I only made back item for cosmetics. I didn't even finish making Aurora, juts did the collection parts for precursor as game has no questing, I treat collections as once. So yeah I been to BF more then once.

You're in luck, then. The game has instanced content where you can get exotic pieces as a reward for very long time. It's easier, more accessible. It's called "dungeons".

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@phs.6089 said:

@"Feanor.2358" said:

You're in luck, then. The game has instanced content where you can get exotic pieces as a reward for very long time. It's easier, more accessible. It's called "dungeons".

Dead old content? much wow

You said you have friends you wanted to help gear. Exotic zerk gear is exotic zerk gear no matter where you got it. Also those skins that come with it actually looks decent.

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@phs.6089 said:

So how many times have you been to bloodstone fen or ember bay to kill the very obvious easy mode raid bosses that are there ?Do you do it daily / weekly / monthly / or did you give it the college 1 and done experience ?

Because they've given you an easy mode as is. Sorry you dont like the champ bag experience enough to learn and move into raids from it though.

What is does with raids wahtsoever? And I'm sorry I'm one of not many that want easy raids to drop exotics, maybe a chance of ascended weapons so i can carry new guildes trough, help them learn and get them initial gear, trough raiding, not open world braided zerging in sw and istan.

You wanted easy mode bosses and they already exist. Now we all know why you want them, thanks for playing.

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@TexZero.7910 said:

@phs.6089 said:

So how many times have you been to bloodstone fen or ember bay to kill the very obvious easy mode raid bosses that are there ?Do you do it daily / weekly / monthly / or did you give it the college 1 and done experience ?

Because they've given you an easy mode as is. Sorry you dont like the champ bag experience enough to learn and move into raids from it though.

What is does with raids wahtsoever? And I'm sorry I'm one of not many that want easy raids to drop exotics, maybe a chance of ascended weapons so i can carry new guildes trough, help them learn and get them initial gear, trough raiding, not open world braided zerging in sw and istan.

You wanted easy mode bosses and they already exist. Now we all know why you want them, thanks for playing.Care to guess how popular raids would be if they had the same reward level as those events?Yeah, i thought so.
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@phs.6089 said:

@"Feanor.2358" said:

You're in luck, then. The game has instanced content where you can get exotic pieces as a reward for very long time. It's easier, more accessible. It's called "dungeons".

Dead old content? much wow

I'm confused, arn't you trying to get your newbie friends geared up? The content isn't old for them....

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@phs.6089 said:

So how many times have you been to bloodstone fen or ember bay to kill the very obvious easy mode raid bosses that are there ?Do you do it daily / weekly / monthly / or did you give it the college 1 and done experience ?

Because they've given you an easy mode as is. Sorry you dont like the champ bag experience enough to learn and move into raids from it though.

What is does with raids wahtsoever? And I'm sorry I'm one of not many that want easy raids to drop exotics, maybe a chance of ascended weapons so i can carry new guildes trough, help them learn and get them initial gear, trough raiding, not open world braided zerging in sw and istan.

You wanted easy mode bosses and they already exist. Now we all know why you want them, thanks for playing.Care to guess how popular raids would be if they had the same reward level as those events?Yeah, i thought so.

Care to see how significantly different the stakes are in an "easy mode" aka Open World Raid boss with extremely toned down skills, HP and Damage are to the current Normal mode ?

There's a very real reason for the rewards to be structed as they are. Clearly it's not that people want an easy mode for the sake of learning or even seeing the fights. The overwhelming majority just want the same loot for less effort and it's disgusting.

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@TexZero.7910 said:

@phs.6089 said:

So how many times have you been to bloodstone fen or ember bay to kill the very obvious easy mode raid bosses that are there ?Do you do it daily / weekly / monthly / or did you give it the college 1 and done experience ?

Because they've given you an easy mode as is. Sorry you dont like the champ bag experience enough to learn and move into raids from it though.

What is does with raids wahtsoever? And I'm sorry I'm one of not many that want easy raids to drop exotics, maybe a chance of ascended weapons so i can carry new guildes trough, help them learn and get them initial gear, trough raiding, not open world braided zerging in sw and istan.

You wanted easy mode bosses and they already exist. Now we all know why you want them, thanks for playing.Care to guess how popular raids would be if they had the same reward level as those events?Yeah, i thought so.

Care to see how significantly different the stakes are in an "easy mode" aka Open World Raid boss with extremely toned down skills, HP and Damage are to the current Normal mode ?

There's a very real reason for the rewards to be structed as they are. Clearly it's not that people want an easy mode for the sake of learning or even seeing the fights. The overwhelming majority just want the same loot for less effort and it's disgusting.

Got to go with Tex on this.

Though this point was established already way back in the beginning of this thread.

The amount of people who see raids as:"to difficult but I want the loot for a fraction of the effort" is astonishing. Those voice have no room in a serious debatte about if an easy mode would be beneficial to the game.

I stand by what I've been saying so far:

  • the actual gameplay difficulty of raids is fine and quite low (to succeed, not master)

  • organisational aspect like grouping and LFG need to be improved and tools for Such improved/implemented

  • the amount of work for multiple difficulties is to high with a not guaranteed positive result it might have. Especially considering a big part of the Pro easy raids crowd just wants the loot and couldn't care less about the game mode

  • it would be better to add an alternative pve legendary armor instead of easy mode raids simply to get rid of all the "I want the loot" voices

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"phs.6089" said:I just called to one of my mid level programming friends and asked how long it will take him to reduce damage and Hp of fully programmed and polished bosses in a videogame, he told me he can do it over the weekend, in notepad, on his knees. I called him lazy but what do I know?

Actually a programmer can do it in less than a minute, probably less than a few seconds even, it's only one variable value after all. A programmer could go and give Deimos 1 health point, or make so Lava Font deal 1 million damage with each tick, that's the easy part. The time to do these changes depends on how long it takes for the programming back end to open, then how long it takes to deploy such a change to the live servers. The hard (and time consuming) part is on the designer instead :)After all, a programmer isn't responsible for making green circles on Vale Guardian stay for a fixed duration, nor how much damage they deal. That's what the designer does. I highly doubt this friend of yours has the statistical data from the Guild Wars 2 playerbase to know the "correct" values for any of the boss statistics, so he is either not a good programmer, a show-off, or you simply didn't word the question appropriately. I'll go with the last one.

Further, a programmer that uses "if" statements to adjust mob values (like health/damage) is a sad programmer that needs another career path, they are inefficient and in a world were variables exist, they are also useless.

Like Hell.. a programmer is so responsible for that.. who do you think MAKES this game?

and please tell us what World Class Programming Profession you are in.

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@phs.6089 said:

So how many times have you been to bloodstone fen or ember bay to kill the very obvious easy mode raid bosses that are there ?Do you do it daily / weekly / monthly / or did you give it the college 1 and done experience ?

Because they've given you an easy mode as is. Sorry you dont like the champ bag experience enough to learn and move into raids from it though.

What is does with raids wahtsoever? And I'm sorry I'm one of not many that want easy raids to drop exotics, maybe a chance of ascended weapons so i can carry new guildes trough, help them learn and get them initial gear, trough raiding, not open world braided zerging in sw and istan.

I don't need LI if i needed a leg armor I have enough league tickets to make a set from pvp but I only made back item for cosmetics. I didn't even finish making Aurora, juts did the collection parts for precursor as game has no questing, I treat collections as once. So yeah I been to BF more then once.

You would be better off guiding your guildies through fractals, not raids. Ascended rings drop, difficulty is low at the initial levels, and after T2 ascended boxes have a chance to drop. Why would newbies want to do the hardest pve endgame content (raids) straight away...?

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@Voltekka.2375 said:

@phs.6089 said:

@"TexZero.7910" said:

So how many times have you been to bloodstone fen or ember bay to kill the very obvious easy mode raid bosses that are there ?Do you do it daily / weekly / monthly / or did you give it the college 1 and done experience ?

Because they've given you an easy mode as is. Sorry you dont like the champ bag experience enough to learn and move into raids from it though.

What is does with raids wahtsoever? And I'm sorry I'm one of not many that want easy raids to drop exotics, maybe a chance of ascended weapons so i can carry new guildes trough, help them learn and get them initial gear, trough raiding, not open world braided zerging in sw and istan.

I don't need LI if i needed a leg armor I have enough league tickets to make a set from pvp but I only made back item for cosmetics. I didn't even finish making Aurora, juts did the collection parts for precursor as game has no questing, I treat collections as once. So yeah I been to BF more then once.

You would be better off guiding your guildies through fractals, not raids. Ascended rings drop, difficulty is low at the initial levels, and after T2 ascended boxes have a chance to drop. Why would newbies want to do the hardest pve endgame content (raids) straight away...?

Isn't it obvious? They don't want to "waste time" on progression and learning like everyone else did. They just want the shinies, now, with minimal to no effort involved.

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@Voltekka.2375 said:

You would be better off guiding your guildies through fractals, not raids. Ascended rings drop, difficulty is low at the initial levels, and after T2 ascended boxes have a chance to drop. Why would newbies want to do the hardest pve endgame content (raids) straight away...?Cus raids are the end-game pve content, not berry farm and istan zerg .Raids need intro versions.

Mind you, whatever anyone else says. I'm the part of players that think, reward=efforts. There is no way I want easy mod raids to drop LI, Boss KP and they should not unlock collections for legendary armor

Fractal rings are vanila stats.

Oh what do I need to do to get viper trinkets?Collect berries hue.

@"Cyninja.2954" said:

  • it would be better to add an alternative pve legendary armor instead of easy mode raids simply to get rid of all the "I want the loot" voices

Good idea and please make sure it linked to dead LW and PoF metas . And only chest for now, save open world legendary pants for next expac.

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@phs.6089 said:

You would be better off guiding your guildies through fractals, not raids. Ascended rings drop, difficulty is low at the initial levels, and after T2 ascended boxes have a chance to drop. Why would newbies want to do the hardest pve endgame content (raids) straight away...?Cus raids are the end-game pve content, not berry farm and istan zerg .Raids need intro versions.

Mind you, whatever anyone else says. I'm the part of players that think, reward=efforts. There is no way I want easy mod raids to drop LI, Boss KP and they should not unlock collections for legendary armor

Fractal rings are vanila stats.

Oh what do I need to do to get viper trinkets?Collect berries hue.

@"Cyninja.2954" said:
  • it would be better to add an alternative pve legendary armor instead of easy mode raids simply to get rid of all the "I want the loot" voices

Good idea and please make sure it linked to dead LW and PoF metas . And only chest for now, save open world legendary pants for next expac.

You can get these from fractals if you want ascended accessories with hot/pof statshttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mist_Talismanhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mist_Pendanthttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mist_Band_(Infused)

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@phs.6089 said:

You would be better off guiding your guildies through fractals, not raids. Ascended rings drop, difficulty is low at the initial levels, and after T2 ascended boxes have a chance to drop. Why would newbies want to do the hardest pve endgame content (raids) straight away...?Cus raids are the end-game pve content, not berry farm and istan zerg .Raids need intro versions.

Mind you, whatever anyone else says. I'm the part of players that think, reward=efforts. There is no way I want easy mod raids to drop LI, Boss KP and they should not unlock collections for legendary armor

Fractal rings are vanila stats.

Oh what do I need to do to get viper trinkets?Collect berries hue.

@"Cyninja.2954" said:
  • it would be better to add an alternative pve legendary armor instead of easy mode raids simply to get rid of all the "I want the loot" voices

Good idea and please make sure it linked to dead LW and PoF metas . And only chest for now, save open world legendary pants for next expac.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mist_TalismanGood day!

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I honestly wouldn't mind an easy mode for raids, it would allow more player to get into them, which in the long run would be beneficial for both the raid community but also ArenaNet, as this content would be more profitable.

However they really need to balance the rewards properly between each difficulty mode. Easy mode should give a different kind of killing proof than hard and normal modes, alongside a piece of legendary insight, and once you get four pieces you can create one legendary insight, obviously a reduced drop rate to the unique loot and less raid currency.

Furthermore easy mode should really be a tutorial for raids, the core mechanics for both the game (dodge, combo fields, boons ...) and the boss (green, special action key ...) should be emphasized, for instance with voice acting a character could say "four of you go into the green area" during Vale Guardian, and then normal mode and hard mode would either expand on those mechanics, making them more punishing, or adding new ones.

Moreover if we get an easy mode it should be accompanied by a hard mode, which means repeatable CMs and CMs for W1 to W3.

If we get that I think the raid community could really grow, as everyone would be pleased.

Edit: Just noticed my vote was the wrong one, it is "We need both easy and hard modes".

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@"Sephylon.4938" said:

You can get these from fractals if you want ascended accessories with hot/pof statshttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mist_Talismanhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mist_Pendanthttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mist_Band_(Infused)I know thank you. I advise my guildies to go run spvp as its more easy to get them for ascended shards then farm 500 pristine relics. But not everyone likes pvp and 500 relics are a long way.

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@phs.6089 said:

@"Sephylon.4938" said:

You can get these from fractals if you want ascended accessories with hot/pof stats
)I know thank you. I advise my guildies to go ruin spvp as its more easy to get them for ascended shards then farm 500 pristine relics.

So then why bring it up? You say you want to introduce your friends into raiding to gear them, but raids have lower drop rates for asc than t4s, and t4s drop armor boxes. Unless you're proposing easy mode raids have higher droprates for ascended accessories and weapons and drop armor boxes at thesame rate.

Also, if you didn't like farming, why would you do raids for asc accessories? They not only have a lower drop rate, but costs more of the content's currency to get vs fractals: 500 pristine fractal relics+gold to get intigrated fractal matrixes for fractals vs 1250 mag shards+gold for raids.

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I'm of the opinion that the raids should stay as they are for the most part, however there is a problem with getting people properly exposed to this content. Namely it takes way too long and too much preparation to even be considered for a raid. From what I understand, a new person to raids would have to pick up a meta build and then gear up that meta built class with full ascended and infusions and get the proper food and utilities for that build in order to be considered for a raiding group or at least get the greatest chance of being considered. Then after all that is done, they feel like they're just plain bad at raids if they fail and then never come back, even if there's a much easier raid wing available. They're already burned from all that preparation just to fail after all.

I feel there should be a slightly re-written version of raid available like the commander and their squad somehow disappeared in the raid wing and now you are generic pact soldiers going in to investigate in the commander's stead. As generic soldier, there will be an advisor available to set your build to one of the recommended builds for your role and provide necessary gear to use in this instance, sort of like the level 80 booster NPC in SW or the automatic sPVP builds. Players can change their builds around but the advisor sternly recommends against that. This advisor will follow you around and provides some line of advice every time the raid team wipes out. Completing the raid in this mode won't provide the normal raid rewards, instead it will provide some gold and karma for the players' time and progress on a new achievement towards a title that can be displayed stating that this player has completed this raid enough times to understand the mechanics of the raid. This is to build some confidence that this player can and will do what is necessary for the raid.

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@DaFishBob.6518 said:I'm of the opinion that the raids should stay as they are for the most part, however there is a problem with getting people properly exposed to this content. Namely it takes way too long and too much preparation to even be considered for a raid. From what I understand, a new person to raids would have to pick up a meta build and then gear up that meta built class with full ascended and infusions and get the proper food and utilities for that build in order to be considered for a raiding group or at least get the greatest chance of being considered. Then after all that is done, they feel like they're just plain bad at raids if they fail and then never come back, even if there's a much easier raid wing available. They're already burned from all that preparation just to fail after all.

Not really, full exotics is fine for raids. You only go asc with infusions if you want to min-max it. Raids have been done in full greens too.

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@Sykper.6583 said:There is nothing that's been said here that hasn't already been brought up and discussed dozens of times.

Let's just go with a quote from the Raid Dev on the current status:

@"Crystal Reid.2481" said:New forum, so I'll jump in with a new post on this.

We won't be adding a different difficulty tier at this time. Raids need to continue to remain the most challenging content in the game, and they aren't designed to be accessible by everyone from a skill perspective. Could they be more accessible from a "finding 9 other players to play with" side? Sure. That isn't always an easy problem to solve, and any solution would detract away from the team making more raid content. We'd love to get more content out to you guys faster really.

Their priorities are keeping raids the most challenging content in game, and wanting to deliver the content to us faster than it took this one.

That's literally all.

I want a 5 man mode, even if they could not be called raids. My gripe about raids its that getting a group of 9 takes time and i dont have that much free time, specially if you are going with friends. Plus its more difficult to carry people if your guild have only 3-5 players that play good and not all are connected.

Im sure im not alone in the time and size problem.

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