What makes a person a nobel? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

What makes a person a nobel?

Artyport.2084Artyport.2084 Member ✭✭✭

Genetics?
A lot of money?
Relations to the queen?

Comments

  • Oglaf.1074Oglaf.1074 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Any of the three, really.

    1) Born into a noble bloodline is a given.
    2) If you’re rich (thus powerful and influential) you can pretty much found your own noble house. All noble families have to start somewhere.
    3) The Queen can basically dub you a noble, yes.

    Please Anet give us a hide Chest Armour-option. Tattoo-clad Norns everywhere beg of you.

  • Artyport.2084Artyport.2084 Member ✭✭✭

    @Oglaf.1074 said:
    Any of the three, really.

    1) Born into a noble bloodline is a given.
    2) If you’re rich (thus powerful and influential) you can pretty much found your own noble house. All noble families have to start somewhere.
    3) The Queen can basically dub you a noble, yes.

    what constitues a nobel blood line?

  • Oglaf.1074Oglaf.1074 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2018

    @Artyport.2084 said:

    @Oglaf.1074 said:
    Any of the three, really.

    1) Born into a noble bloodline is a given.
    2) If you’re rich (thus powerful and influential) you can pretty much found your own noble house. All noble families have to start somewhere.
    3) The Queen can basically dub you a noble, yes.

    what constitues a nobel blood line?

    See point 2 and 3.

    Edit: There is also the political system where ministers and the like being nobles. However, I’m not sure that means that only nobles are allowed to become politicians or if politicians become nobles by default as part of their position...

    Please Anet give us a hide Chest Armour-option. Tattoo-clad Norns everywhere beg of you.

  • Artyport.2084Artyport.2084 Member ✭✭✭

    @Oglaf.1074 said:

    @Artyport.2084 said:

    @Oglaf.1074 said:
    Any of the three, really.

    1) Born into a noble bloodline is a given.
    2) If you’re rich (thus powerful and influential) you can pretty much found your own noble house. All noble families have to start somewhere.
    3) The Queen can basically dub you a noble, yes.

    what constitues a nobel blood line?

    See point 2 and 3.

    Edit: There is also the political system where ministers and the like being nobles. However, I’m not sure that means that only nobles are allowed to become politicians or if politicians become nobles by default as part of their position...

    ok.. i guess i was curious to weather these characters were descendants of specific people.
    like rurik ?
    or gwen?
    lady althea?

  • Oglaf.1074Oglaf.1074 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Artyport.2084 said:

    @Oglaf.1074 said:

    @Artyport.2084 said:

    @Oglaf.1074 said:
    Any of the three, really.

    1) Born into a noble bloodline is a given.
    2) If you’re rich (thus powerful and influential) you can pretty much found your own noble house. All noble families have to start somewhere.
    3) The Queen can basically dub you a noble, yes.

    what constitues a nobel blood line?

    See point 2 and 3.

    Edit: There is also the political system where ministers and the like being nobles. However, I’m not sure that means that only nobles are allowed to become politicians or if politicians become nobles by default as part of their position...

    ok.. i guess i was curious to weather these characters were descendants of specific people.
    like rurik ?
    or gwen?
    lady althea?

    I’m not sure we know what happened to their bloodlines in between the two games.

    But I’m not really a human person. Someone more interested/well-versed in their lore might know.

    Please Anet give us a hide Chest Armour-option. Tattoo-clad Norns everywhere beg of you.

  • Aaron Ansari.1604Aaron Ansari.1604 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Oglaf.1074 said:

    Edit: There is also the political system where ministers and the like being nobles. However, I’m not sure that means that only nobles are allowed to become politicians or if politicians become nobles by default as part of their position...

    Neither/nor. Anyone, officially, can become a minister. Unofficially, just about every minister just so happens to also be a noble, probably because nobles already occupy the prominent leadership positions in a given community and because they're the ones with enough wealth to gallivant off to the Ministry and waste their time there.

    @Artyport.2084 said:

    ok.. i guess i was curious to weather these characters were descendants of specific people.

    Mm... maybe? As mentioned above, the monarch can raise people to nobility, and their descendants would then be nobles. (I don't know if buying a title is actually a thing in Tyria, though.) Other than that... there is a brief mention that the nobility as a whole can 'trace their ancestry back to ancient kings,' but it's unclear whether that means that the original noble houses sprung up from the royal children who didn't inherit the throne, or if it just means that after a thousand years the nobles have intermarried with the royal family enough that just about everyone's connected to it somehow.

    or gwen?

    Gwen wasn't a noble. Logan isn't either, for that matter; that's the whole cause of the friction in his relationship with Jennah.

    R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

  • @Oglaf.1074 said:

    @Artyport.2084 said:

    @Oglaf.1074 said:
    Any of the three, really.

    1) Born into a noble bloodline is a given.
    2) If you’re rich (thus powerful and influential) you can pretty much found your own noble house. All noble families have to start somewhere.
    3) The Queen can basically dub you a noble, yes.

    what constitues a nobel blood line?

    See point 2 and 3.

    Edit: There is also the political system where ministers and the like being nobles. However, I’m not sure that means that only nobles are allowed to become politicians or if politicians become nobles by default as part of their position...

    Not all ministers are nobles/upper class, some are indeed lower/mid class, so as to represent the needs of said lower/middle class citizens. Though most ministers do seem to be of nobility.

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well, to be a nobel you have to win the prize first. From Physics, Chemistry, Economics or peace endeavors, etc. It's really hard though, they only hand those out once a year, mostly 1 prize per person but sometimes 2 people share the prize! Sucks to share the money.

    Oh, you mean noble, right?
    Nobility is defined by blood. You are born into it mostly.

    2 and 3 may result in you being dubbed a noble. Or in the real world, men were knighted, usually as a result of either prowess, relations or wealth which later evolved into the concept of nobility. At some point, the titles became hereditary and so noble houses were born.

  • @Artyport.2084 said:
    Genetics?
    A lot of money?
    Relations to the queen?

    From real life:

    Nobility are the higher end class of society that are usually tasked with the more intelligent operations of keeping a society running. So they end up managing things and generally put in more effort than the working class. The working class in comparison worked only a few hours a day to sustain themselves. So yes, due to the intelligence requirement and the mental endurance requirements, those born into nobility have a higher chance to have the required properties to stay noble.

    Money follows from what they do, it is not that they have it already since they would just lose it if managed incorrectly.

    In old times leaders were far more accessible to the populace than they are now. A king was king because the people he commanded respected him. If they didn't, he would be dead. So no, not necessarily determining for whether a person was a noble or not.

    Everyone is equal under the CoC, but those ArenaNet agrees with are more equal than others.

  • @Aaron Ansari.1604 said:

    @Oglaf.1074 said:

    Edit: There is also the political system where ministers and the like being nobles. However, I’m not sure that means that only nobles are allowed to become politicians or if politicians become nobles by default as part of their position...

    Neither/nor. Anyone, officially, can become a minister. Unofficially, just about every minister just so happens to also be a noble, probably because nobles already occupy the prominent leadership positions in a given community and because they're the ones with enough wealth to gallivant off to the Ministry and waste their time there.

    @Artyport.2084 said:

    ok.. i guess i was curious to weather these characters were descendants of specific people.

    Mm... maybe? As mentioned above, the monarch can raise people to nobility, and their descendants would then be nobles. (I don't know if buying a title is actually a thing in Tyria, though.) Other than that... there is a brief mention that the nobility as a whole can 'trace their ancestry back to ancient kings,' but it's unclear whether that means that the original noble houses sprung up from the royal children who didn't inherit the throne, or if it just means that after a thousand years the nobles have intermarried with the royal family enough that just about everyone's connected to it somehow.

    or gwen?

    Gwen wasn't a noble. Logan isn't either, for that matter; that's the whole cause of the friction in his relationship with Jennah.

    By the very armor he wears, you can tell that Logan is (or should be) a noble. Armors of that class are not cheap and the common soldiery had cheaper armor that they were running around with.

    Everyone is equal under the CoC, but those ArenaNet agrees with are more equal than others.

  • norbes.3620norbes.3620 Member ✭✭✭

    @reaVer.4056 said:

    @Aaron Ansari.1604 said:

    @Oglaf.1074 said:

    Edit: There is also the political system where ministers and the like being nobles. However, I’m not sure that means that only nobles are allowed to become politicians or if politicians become nobles by default as part of their position...

    Neither/nor. Anyone, officially, can become a minister. Unofficially, just about every minister just so happens to also be a noble, probably because nobles already occupy the prominent leadership positions in a given community and because they're the ones with enough wealth to gallivant off to the Ministry and waste their time there.

    @Artyport.2084 said:

    ok.. i guess i was curious to weather these characters were descendants of specific people.

    Mm... maybe? As mentioned above, the monarch can raise people to nobility, and their descendants would then be nobles. (I don't know if buying a title is actually a thing in Tyria, though.) Other than that... there is a brief mention that the nobility as a whole can 'trace their ancestry back to ancient kings,' but it's unclear whether that means that the original noble houses sprung up from the royal children who didn't inherit the throne, or if it just means that after a thousand years the nobles have intermarried with the royal family enough that just about everyone's connected to it somehow.

    or gwen?

    Gwen wasn't a noble. Logan isn't either, for that matter; that's the whole cause of the friction in his relationship with Jennah.

    By the very armor he wears, you can tell that Logan is (or should be) a noble. Armors of that class are not cheap and the common soldiery had cheaper armor that they were running around with.

    Actually logan is wearing an armor fitting his rank as higher up in the seraph
    From whats hinted in the DE novel He is not necessarily noble but worked Hard and that work (as hero) paid off in gaining him ranks

  • @reaVer.4056 said:
    By the very armor he wears, you can tell that Logan is (or should be) a noble. Armors of that class are not cheap and the common soldiery had cheaper armor that they were running around with.

    It's pretty keenly established that he's a mere commoner. His armor is that of a Captain of the Seraph, the highest rank within the Seraph military, which he gained due to his abilities not his lineage.

  • @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @reaVer.4056 said:
    By the very armor he wears, you can tell that Logan is (or should be) a noble. Armors of that class are not cheap and the common soldiery had cheaper armor that they were running around with.

    It's pretty keenly established that he's a mere commoner. His armor is that of a Captain of the Seraph, the highest rank within the Seraph military, which he gained due to his abilities not his lineage.

    Generally when someone does heroic deeds he gets knighted. That makes him a noble.

    Everyone is equal under the CoC, but those ArenaNet agrees with are more equal than others.

  • norbes.3620norbes.3620 Member ✭✭✭

    @reaVer.4056 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @reaVer.4056 said:
    By the very armor he wears, you can tell that Logan is (or should be) a noble. Armors of that class are not cheap and the common soldiery had cheaper armor that they were running around with.

    It's pretty keenly established that he's a mere commoner. His armor is that of a Captain of the Seraph, the highest rank within the Seraph military, which he gained due to his abilities not his lineage.

    Generally when someone does heroic deeds he gets knighted. That makes him a noble.

    And still its not necessary
    U like him getting knighted so He got for u. And thats ok
    But its not stated anywhere only that He is indeed captain of the seraph and wearing the armor of a seraph captain

  • Genesis.8572Genesis.8572 Member ✭✭✭

    @reaVer.4056 said:
    By the very armor he wears, you can tell that Logan is (or should be) a noble. Armors of that class are not cheap and the common soldiery had cheaper armor that they were running around with.

    Kryta doesn't work that way. The Krytan and Ebonhawke militaries seem to operate on a principle of "if you earn the rank, you get the gear that accompanies the station." The Seraph is likely a mix of nobles and commoners. Baroness Jasmina claims that her mother was a Seraph Captain, though we do not know if her mother was always nobility, elevated into nobility for her service, or married into nobility.

    We also don't know the affordability of armors in Tyria. In Medieval Europe? Sure. But in Tyria, the charr are able to muster enough refined metalls to make large scale tanks, towns, and such. Metals for armor may not be that comparatively expensive, and asura and dredge mining techniques (and golems) may make needed ores fairly cheap.

    Furthermore, we know Logan is not a noble. This is made clear in the "relationship" between him and Queen Jennah. Though there were certainly opportunities in the two hundred years of Ebonhawke and Kryta for the Thackery gens to be raised into the nobility, that apparently had not happened by the time of Logan and Dylan. He spent a lot of his combat experience as a mercenary, a scout-for-hire, working with the Ebon Vanguard. But Logan managed to impress Queen Jennah fighting in the arena at Lion's Arch. He won acclaim through defeating a few dragon champions and defending Queen Jennah at Ebonhawke. In the years between Kraalkatorik's awakening and the start of Guild Wars 2, Logan rose to the first among equals of the Seraph Captains.

    @Artyport.2084 said:
    what constitues a nobel blood line?

    First it's important to establish what constitutes a royal bloodline, as most noble bloodlines are defined by their proximity to royal ones. All Ascalonian, Krytan, and Orrian royal bloodlines trace their lineages to King Doric of Orr, who ruled over the united human kingdoms that would comprise these three territories of Tyria, though each at various stages of territorial scope and development.

    Nobility is generally composed of cadet royal lines, non-familial vassals, and raised nobles. Over multiple generations, these lines tend to intermingle as nobles attempt to "strengthen" their bloodline ties to royals and other nobles through strategic marriages. As such, most nobility will likely variously trace their lineages to King Doric as well, as the more blood ties they have to the lineage of Doric, the more claim they could make on the Krytan throne, estates, and other privileges.

  • @reaVer.4056 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @reaVer.4056 said:
    By the very armor he wears, you can tell that Logan is (or should be) a noble. Armors of that class are not cheap and the common soldiery had cheaper armor that they were running around with.

    It's pretty keenly established that he's a mere commoner. His armor is that of a Captain of the Seraph, the highest rank within the Seraph military, which he gained due to his abilities not his lineage.

    Generally when someone does heroic deeds he gets knighted. That makes him a noble.

    It should be noted that there is no "knighting" ever seen in Guild Wars, let alone Kryta. Nothing that seems to relate to the medieval knights (both perceived and actual) for that matter, though we do have a few Orrian and Ascalonian "Squire" NPCs, but no lore as to their role in life.

  • Thinking about it, Logan probably hasn't been knighted because he's been friendzoned; He just doesn't know it yet... :p

    Everyone is equal under the CoC, but those ArenaNet agrees with are more equal than others.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 31, 2018

    @reaVer.4056 said:
    Thinking about it, Logan probably hasn't been knighted because he's been friendzoned; He just doesn't know it yet... :p

    Even ignoring my post about the complete apparent lack of knighthood in modern Tyria, Queen Jennah explicitly states in the PS that she loves Logan (I have enough servants—I want a partner. Logan must be free to make his own decisions. I made such a mistake once before. I won't make it again.), you'll get that dialogue after killing Kellach so long as you didn't join the Order of Whispers (as Jennah is not present in that instance).

    Though This apparently got retconned in Season 3 to "she never loved him and everyone but Logan knew this". Though at the end of Season 3, Logan accepts (the retcon) that Jennah doesn't care about him.

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    Though This apparently got retconned in Season 3 to "she never loved him and everyone but Logan knew this". Though at the end of Season 3, Logan accepts (the retcon) that Jennah doesn't care about him.

    I thought that was a strategic misdirection on her part... she needed him to move on and get a life, so he could become the sort of person who could be accepted as her... consort, I guess?

  • @perilisk.1874 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    Though This apparently got retconned in Season 3 to "she never loved him and everyone but Logan knew this". Though at the end of Season 3, Logan accepts (the retcon) that Jennah doesn't care about him.

    I thought that was a strategic misdirection on her part... she needed him to move on and get a life, so he could become the sort of person who could be accepted as her... consort, I guess?

    If it weren't for all the thousands of other dialogue effectively saying "Jennah never liked him, Logan is so pathetic for not realizing it" from Estrella, the Ladies in Waiting, etc. etc., that might sound plausible. But tbh, I think it was more that they forgot they had already established her feelings and decided to change directions.

  • kasoki.5180kasoki.5180 Member ✭✭✭

    There are few things to note about concept of nobility in general. First, conditions for status of nobility vary from century to century and from country to country. Second, nobility isn't one homogenous category, nobility had stratification inside itself. For example counts were a world apart from knights or petty county estate holders.
    Concept of european nobility has roots in germanic military aristocracy. Essentially, you do something for "chief" and you get awarded with land and some governmental rights upon it. This was later mixed with late roman ownership of estate with serfs and that's how you get european feudalism (including the nobility).

    Bloodline could play a part in it if title/lands/rights were hereditary, which they need not always be. For example there were titles which were counted among highest nobles in the realm but were not hereditary. Those were usually part monarch's apparatus and they usually changed if monarch wished so or if simply new monarch came to throne. Note, monarchs had a right to give out lands and titles, so monarchs would often create new nobility loyal to them if they believed old nobility presented a problem. So, no bloodline is not a necessary element, but possible one.

    We cant really tell for certain what is condition in Kryta to be given status of a noble but its safe to assume that it is doing something of great importance for the Queen. That is simply because Kryta seems to have strong monarchical elements with very few parliamentary elements in its governance (Current political strenght of Ministry is anomaly due to regency)

    So, to answer your question, it can be all that you have mentioned, or it can be something completely different.

  • Ardid.7203Ardid.7203 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So Jenna could simply design Logan as a noble considering all his heroics and helpful ways, and give the poor man a chance.
    But she prefers not to.
    So nice.

  • gimo.3281gimo.3281 Member ✭✭
    edited August 31, 2018

    what makes a bloodline noble is successfully doing a feat or test sanctioned by the constituents. successfully doing those will earn the prospective nobles respect and they will be treated as royals. and that kingdom/society is modeled on the anatomy of a man/woman, which has 1 head/a pair of heads(king/queen). (a) well respected noble(s), line in return, must treat its constituents justly, fairly and sincerely take care of them, coz a head without body is a dead head.

  • Aaron Ansari.1604Aaron Ansari.1604 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 31, 2018

    @Ardid.7203 said:
    So Jenna could simply design Logan as a noble considering all his heroics and helpful ways, and give the poor man a chance.
    But she prefers not to.
    So nice.

    It's implied a few times, before S3, that doing so would be... politically fraught. When a guy like Caudecus is around, you don't want to give someone honors and power just so you can sleep with him.

    Of course, as soon as Caudecus is out of the picture... well. That's not a new discussion around here, but in short, it looks like he didn't have a chance after all.

    R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

  • Oglaf.1074Oglaf.1074 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 31, 2018

    @Ardid.7203 said:
    So Jenna could simply design Logan as a noble considering all his heroics and helpful ways, and give the poor man a chance.
    But she prefers not to.
    So nice.

    That would probably be a political scandal regardless as people know they pine for one-another.

    Or at least, that’s probably what they fear might happen in any case.

    Please Anet give us a hide Chest Armour-option. Tattoo-clad Norns everywhere beg of you.

  • Rognik.2579Rognik.2579 Member ✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @perilisk.1874 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    Though This apparently got retconned in Season 3 to "she never loved him and everyone but Logan knew this". Though at the end of Season 3, Logan accepts (the retcon) that Jennah doesn't care about him.

    I thought that was a strategic misdirection on her part... she needed him to move on and get a life, so he could become the sort of person who could be accepted as her... consort, I guess?

    If it weren't for all the thousands of other dialogue effectively saying "Jennah never liked him, Logan is so pathetic for not realizing it" from Estrella, the Ladies in Waiting, etc. etc., that might sound plausible. But tbh, I think it was more that they forgot they had already established her feelings and decided to change directions.

    Taking Estrelle as a credible source, considering we had outed her as one of Caudecus's agents in Season 2 and a White Mantle in Season 3, is hardly wise. Similarly, the Ladies in Waiting are gossipers, who would spread any rumour passed around that lead to drama. After all, Logan's feelings for Jennah were a secret to no one, even the most emotionally blind person. Even Gorrik would be able to tell!

    As for making Logan a noble herself, Jennah already has a tenuous hold on the throne. She took power at a young age, which is why the ministry was even formed. Her reign has been tenuous from Day 1, mainly because of the pressure Caudecus and his allies put on her. Even with him dead and the White Mantle routed, other ministers are looking to seize the power from her.

    Her outright rejection of Logan at the end of the first instance of S3E4? I read that as her pushing him away so he can stop pining and start earning his place at her side. She hasn't changed her feelings, just how she expresses them, especially after 5 years of the poor man doing little besides almost abandoning Destiny's Edge yet again.

  • Aaron Ansari.1604Aaron Ansari.1604 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 1, 2018

    @Rognik.2579 said:

    Her outright rejection of Logan at the end of the first instance of S3E4? I read that as her pushing him away so he can stop pining and start earning his place at her side. She hasn't changed her feelings, just how she expresses them, especially after 5 years of the poor man doing little besides almost abandoning Destiny's Edge yet again.

    That line, actually, I read as honest concern. Nothing romance-crushing there, especially given how quick she is to lose her temper with Estelle after that insult.

    It's the next instance that I was talking about- in particular, Logan's "Well, my eyes were opened to...my role here," and Jennah's "I hear the whispers, and I see with my own eyes. Logan is...a loyal servant, and a friend. I think he's coming to terms with that. At last."

    R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 1, 2018

    @Rognik.2579 said:
    Taking Estrelle as a credible source, considering we had outed her as one of Caudecus's agents in Season 2 and a White Mantle in Season 3, is hardly wise. Similarly, the Ladies in Waiting are gossipers, who would spread any rumour passed around that lead to drama. After all, Logan's feelings for Jennah were a secret to no one, even the most emotionally blind person. Even Gorrik would be able to tell!

    [...]

    Her outright rejection of Logan at the end of the first instance of S3E4? I read that as her pushing him away so he can stop pining and start earning his place at her side. She hasn't changed her feelings, just how she expresses them, especially after 5 years of the poor man doing little besides almost abandoning Destiny's Edge yet again.

    It's not Estrelle herself that I view as credible, but the reaction to Estrelle's line from the unnamed Minister, and her reaction to that reaction which suggests that, well, everyone "knows" Jennah holds no feelings for Logan but no one ever speaks of it to avoid spiting Jennah or Logan.

    And while the Ladies in Waiting certainly come off as gossipers, they're also around Jennah enough to see whether or not she had feelings for him, and they make it fairly clear she doesn't. As you say, they're gossipers. If there was even a hint of her feelings for Logan, they would spread it like wildfire about how the "refined and noble queen" loves a commoner, even if he did manage to become a captain.

    And as Aaron said, it isn't her rejection at the end of the first instance, but her dialogue in the fourth story step. If all she was doing was a "pushing him away so he can stop pining and start earning his place" there was no need to end with "I think he's coming to terms with that. At last."

    And Logan hasn't been abandoning Destiny's Edge for the past 5 years... Though they all did go their separate ways after Zhaitan, due to the narrative misdirection of Season 1, they immediately rejoined with the Pact once preparations were fuller underway. Their offices and titles pretty much prevented half of Destiny's Edge from just adventuring like the good ol' days - mainly Logans and Rytlock's offices.

  • kasoki.5180kasoki.5180 Member ✭✭✭

    Now that you mention this whole topic, is there actually any in-game peace of information that would suggest Queen had feelings for Logan? I cant remember ever hearing any and I have played all human storylines

  • Aaron Ansari.1604Aaron Ansari.1604 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 1, 2018

    @kasoki.5180 said:
    Now that you mention this whole topic, is there actually any in-game peace of information that would suggest Queen had feelings for Logan? I cant remember ever hearing any and I have played all human storylines

    Konig quoted it earlier in the thread. End of the third chapter of the human arc, unless you pick OoW: "He is like an angel sent from Dwayna to be at my side. If things were different, or if Kryta were at peace. then perhaps..." and " I have enough servants—I want a partner."

    R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

  • Aaron Ansari.1604Aaron Ansari.1604 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Not... exactly. That tree's something the fans have put together from every royal we've heard about, but even then? Many, many gaps. It hits everyone relevant to the story, maybe, but not everyone relevant to the nobility within the setting. (For example, we don't even know how many kids Doric himself had, and he's as important as it gets.) Each spot where the line doesn't actually touch the box means there's probably people missing, possibly many people. 1000 years times three separate branches does that.

    R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

  • MisterCheshire.4029MisterCheshire.4029 Member ✭✭
    edited September 2, 2018

    Yes. In any society, nobles are typically individuals of influence. Genetics and relations to the queen are the highest aspects, as nobles are almost elusively noted by their bloodlines, with the queen's bloodline the most important. However money and positions of power also have some importance. Depending on the society, a person can become noble if they accrue enough wealth (American Society), while other societies require bloodlines (French Society/English Society, etc). Especially in magic settings bloodlines are of utmost importance.

    More or less, look up history on nobles and what allow them to become nobles. 90% of the time, it's because the monarch is viewed as a holy being, or because their family did something for the monarch.

  • Ardid.7203Ardid.7203 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Most of the time, its because their families were aligned with the winner of the last war...

  • kasoki.5180kasoki.5180 Member ✭✭✭

    That tree is royal families. Nobility and royalty are not necessarily a same thing. All royals are nobles, but not all nobles are royals

  • @kasoki.5180 said:

    That tree is royal families. Nobility and royalty are not necessarily a same thing. All royals are nobles, but not all nobles are royals

    It's the best we got tho ... GW2 introduced a bunch of nobles (like all those ministers) with no previous connections with GW1 or characters there.

    Also, Kryta in GW2 and Kryta in GW1 are very different in size and population density as well as societal structure. Where Ascalon already had established nobility in GW1 (now lost and attached to the Krytan royal family), Kryta back then was basically a tribal society with the ruling class being the White Mantle.

    It wasn't until Divinity's Reach grew considerably that more priminent families could have gotten the opportunity to become aristocrats.

  • Aaron Ansari.1604Aaron Ansari.1604 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 5, 2018

    @Kovac.4372 said:

    @kasoki.5180 said:

    That tree is royal families. Nobility and royalty are not necessarily a same thing. All royals are nobles, but not all nobles are royals

    It's the best we got tho ... GW2 introduced a bunch of nobles (like all those ministers) with no previous connections with GW1 or characters there.

    Also, Kryta in GW2 and Kryta in GW1 are very different in size and population density as well as societal structure. Where Ascalon already had established nobility in GW1 (now lost and attached to the Krytan royal family), Kryta back then was basically a tribal society with the ruling class being the White Mantle.

    It wasn't until Divinity's Reach grew considerably that more priminent families could have gotten the opportunity to become aristocrats.

    Tribal? No. We know that Kryta had a well-established nobility well before GW1. What seems to have happened there is that the nobles lost their standing to the war or the White Mantle takeover, or else they integrated into the Mantle. It also appears that they regained their place sometime after the monarchy was restored. There was an old TowerTalk interview- taken down, unfortunately, but the transcript survives here- that mentioned that the growth of Divinity's Reach has actually marked a decline in the fortunes of the noble class. With so many members of high society crammed into one place, it's rarer to find one who actually owns and runs their own land these days.

    R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

  • @Aaron Ansari.1604 said:
    Tribal? No.

    It takes one trip to Lions Arch in GW1 to see what I mean. Just take a look at the NPCs there.

  • Aaron Ansari.1604Aaron Ansari.1604 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 6, 2018

    @Kovac.4372 said:

    @Aaron Ansari.1604 said:
    Tribal? No.

    It takes one trip to Lions Arch in GW1 to see what I mean. Just take a look at the NPCs there.

    Because of how they dress and the fact that they have tattoos? There are a good number of non-tribal societies with a tradition of tattooing, including our own; ditto for clothing that leaves a lot of skin uncovered, particularly in warmer humid regions. As for the quality of the clothes:

    The Guild Wars Manuscripts said:

    Travelers to Kryta will find a stark contrast between the fortified, polished-stone buildings of the White Mantle and the thatch-roofed huts of the regular citizens. There is a surprising amount of wealth here, but it is kept in the hands of those who adhere to the doctrines of the Mantle, and this is reflected in the architecture of the region.

    That is just as true of the dress as the architecture. The Mantle models do not lack for extravagance, although good taste may be another matter. Similarly, the Shining Blade, removed from the need of tithing their wealth to the Mantle, don't seem to have had any difficulty creating quality gear for themselves.

    R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

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