[Suggestion] Replace Serpent's Ire achievement requirement with PoF bounties — Guild Wars 2 Forums

[Suggestion] Replace Serpent's Ire achievement requirement with PoF bounties

gamerzfolk.1732gamerzfolk.1732 Member
edited August 30, 2018 in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Please replace Serpent's Ire requirement with a bounty or bounties. Very few people are successfully doing Serpent's Ire, which requires a decent-sized group with good CC skills. Those of us who rely on PUGs cannot always find a decent-sized group.

Most of the large Meta groups are going to Tyria, Dragon Stand, Tarrir, and Istan. Comparatively speaking, very few players venture into PoF for Meta events. They mostly do bounties in PoF.

Comments

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2018

    I say no... those of us that have done the IG backpack had to go through all the same issues but overcame it by joining specific groups that run it... like open community. It is up to you to get yourself organised and try to plan ahead or perhaps organise your own map run.
    What I could get behind is ANET making some fundamental changes to the event in order to make it more accessible and attractive for players run, but seeing how they left content like 3HW it seems unlikely to me that they will, no matter what their data shows them.

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • Carighan.6758Carighan.6758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    How is removing the requirement going to help people doing the meta ,then?

    If anything, we need more motivation to do Serpent's Ire! :open_mouth:

  • Pifil.5193Pifil.5193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It needs a hell of a lot of motivation to make me do Serpents' Ire again. Gating collections behind it is a terrible idea.

    Stage 1 takes upwards of 20 minutes to do, Stage 2 is failure prone and, of course, if you fail at Stage 2 you have to wait another hour before you can even start Stage 1 again (which pretty much ensures that any group will have disbanded and you'll be trying to herd a different group of cats). Stage 3 seems to be a lot more manageable (and more enjoyable) than the previous two.

    Of course, then you get terrible loot for your 40-45 minutes.

    Maybe some kind of infusion would consistently bring enough people to the event for it to be put "on farm"? It worked for the Chak Gerent.

  • segman.3560segman.3560 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2018

    @Carighan.6758 said:
    How is removing the requirement going to help people doing the meta ,then?

    If anything, we need more motivation to do Serpent's Ire! :open_mouth:

    Like proper rewards?

  • Seriously? Very few people are going to Serpent's Ire because it is neither fun nor enjoyable. How do you motivate someone to do something that is not fun or enjoyable?

    Look at all the other Meta's that people love to do over and over again. Why do they flock to these Meta's? Answer: Because they are fun and enjoyable.

    How do you organize a PUG for a Meta that has very little attendance?

  • Kiza.5630Kiza.5630 Member ✭✭✭

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:
    I say no... those of us that have done the IG backpack had to go through all the same issues but overcame it by joining specific groups that run it

    That is not entirely correct. When the collection was a novelty it was relatively easy to organize a map since many people joined. Whereas if you do it now you will barely start with even 15 players when p1 events start. I did it many times randomly via LFG. But I won't bother with it anymore in the current state. It's only frustration.

    Slap a branded infusion in there, same effect you get in the brandstorm, and it probably solve the issue. Otherwise, yeah, remove it from the collections. It's not fun for those coming late to the party.

  • Oglaf.1074Oglaf.1074 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Carighan.6758 said:
    If anything, we need more motivation to do Serpent's Ire! :open_mouth:

    No. That obviously doesn’t work. Anet keeps shoehorning collections in with this kitten meta patch after patch yet it doesn’t make it more popular. Just more frustrating for the people wanting the things “blocked” by it.

    The meta itself needs a total overhaul to be less... stupid. :confounded:

    Please Anet give us a hide Chest Armour-option. Tattoo-clad Norns everywhere beg of you.

  • @Vyrulisse.1246 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:
    I say no... those of us that have done the IG backpack had to go through all the same issues but overcame it by joining specific groups that run it... like open community. It is up to you to get yourself organised and try to plan ahead or perhaps organise your own map run.
    What I could get behind is ANET making some fundamental changes to the event in order to make it more accessible and attractive for players run, but seeing how they left content like 3HW it seems unlikely to me that they will, no matter what their data shows them.

    "It was a headache for me so it should be a headache until the end of time." What a selfish statement.

    Welcome to online gaming, where making things easier for other people is a no-no.

    Oh did I hurt your precious feelings? My deepest apologies.

  • VanWilder.6923VanWilder.6923 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2018

    Griffon collection had taught me that whenever a collection comes out, try to get it as soon as possible because at that time, there are lot of players around for the same goal to make things lots easier.

    I feel bad for palyers doing this IG now.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    To be honest, I have yet to see anyone ever use that backpack skin. What’s the motivation to complete that collection? Just for the sake to have it completed? For another ascended backpack that has been thrown at us with every single LS episode?

    Obtaining that backpack isn’t a necessity for anything in the game. Having it behind a group meta that requires just a little more effort than the player base as a whole are used to doing isn’t really out of line. There are plenty of alternative ways to get an ascended backpack.

  • Raizel.8175Raizel.8175 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    To be honest, I have yet to see anyone ever use that backpack skin. What’s the motivation to complete that collection? Just for the sake to have it completed? For another ascended backpack that has been thrown at us with every single LS episode?

    Obtaining that backpack isn’t a necessity for anything in the game. Having it behind a group meta that requires just a little more effort than the player base as a whole are used to doing isn’t really out of line. There are plenty of alternative ways to get an ascended backpack.

    My little Inquest loves her golem-backpack. o:

    Tbh, Serpent's Ire is perfectly fine. It's mostly a community-issue 'cause people can't pull their weight. What could be fine-tuned are the defiance-bars of the priests during the second phase, the sheer visual cluster-kitten during the actual boss-fight (and arguably the melee-hatred) and the rewards. The rewards are just trash. Put at least an AmGem into them and give the chance to receive some sort of branded infusion and a lot more people would try to do the event. Maybe put up some chests at the end and that's it.

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    Obtaining that backpack isn’t a necessity for anything in the game.

    It will probably be a necessity for the next Aurora, FWIW. Of course, that may increase interest in doing the event.

  • Oglaf.1074Oglaf.1074 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @perilisk.1874 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    Obtaining that backpack isn’t a necessity for anything in the game.

    It will probably be a necessity for the next Aurora, FWIW. Of course, that may increase interest in doing the event.

    >

    Dear god no. Please no. That’d be the worst thing they could do.

    Please Anet give us a hide Chest Armour-option. Tattoo-clad Norns everywhere beg of you.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @perilisk.1874 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    Obtaining that backpack isn’t a necessity for anything in the game.

    It will probably be a necessity for the next Aurora, FWIW. Of course, that may increase interest in doing the event.

    Perhaps. That would also be a legendary so expecting people to complete that meta in order to acquire the precursor isn’t out of line.

  • starlinvf.1358starlinvf.1358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Oglaf.1074 said:

    @perilisk.1874 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    Obtaining that backpack isn’t a necessity for anything in the game.

    It will probably be a necessity for the next Aurora, FWIW. Of course, that may increase interest in doing the event.

    >

    Dear god no. Please no. That’d be the worst thing they could do.

    You lack imagination. They can do much, much worse. But hes probably right. Remember the druid backpiece? Had an awfully similar set of requirements.

  • Pifil.5193Pifil.5193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    To be honest, I have yet to see anyone ever use that backpack skin. What’s the motivation to complete that collection? Just for the sake to have it completed? For another ascended backpack that has been thrown at us with every single LS episode?

    Obtaining that backpack isn’t a necessity for anything in the game. Having it behind a group meta that requires just a little more effort than the player base as a whole are used to doing isn’t really out of line. There are plenty of alternative ways to get an ascended backpack.

    These collections are the mainstay of LS content, saying they're not needed is like saying that playing the game isn't needed.

    I think having someone's progress (and yes it's their personal progress) blocked by a unpopular, largely avoided group event is an issue worth raising again and again until they either address the issues with the event or stop trying to push people into doing it.

    I just hope they don't add it to this season's Aurora equivalent.

  • FrizzFreston.5290FrizzFreston.5290 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If anything, the event would need to be changed if it supposedly can't be a requirement.

    The idea to use bounties seems boring to me, I rather have the other PoF meta events as requirement.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Pifil.5193 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    To be honest, I have yet to see anyone ever use that backpack skin. What’s the motivation to complete that collection? Just for the sake to have it completed? For another ascended backpack that has been thrown at us with every single LS episode?

    Obtaining that backpack isn’t a necessity for anything in the game. Having it behind a group meta that requires just a little more effort than the player base as a whole are used to doing isn’t really out of line. There are plenty of alternative ways to get an ascended backpack.

    These collections are the mainstay of LS content, saying they're not needed is like saying that playing the game isn't needed.

    Not the same thing.

    I think having someone's progress (and yes it's their personal progress) blocked by a unpopular, largely avoided group event is an issue worth raising again and again until they either address the issues with the event or stop trying to push people into doing it.

    It’s not blocked as the meta can be completed just as easily as it could when PoF launched. The issue is a player one and their inability as a whole to use CC. Fortunately there are groups that run this meta routinely and are fairly successful with each attempt.

  • Pifil.5193Pifil.5193 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2018

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Pifil.5193 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    To be honest, I have yet to see anyone ever use that backpack skin. What’s the motivation to complete that collection? Just for the sake to have it completed? For another ascended backpack that has been thrown at us with every single LS episode?

    Obtaining that backpack isn’t a necessity for anything in the game. Having it behind a group meta that requires just a little more effort than the player base as a whole are used to doing isn’t really out of line. There are plenty of alternative ways to get an ascended backpack.

    These collections are the mainstay of LS content, saying they're not needed is like saying that playing the game isn't needed.

    Not the same thing.

    Yeah it is, taken to an extreme to highlight how irrelevant the "but you don't have to do it" non argument is but it's the same thing.

    I think having someone's progress (and yes it's their personal progress) blocked by a unpopular, largely avoided group event is an issue worth raising again and again until they either address the issues with the event or stop trying to push people into doing it.

    It’s not blocked as the meta can be completed just as easily as it could when PoF launched. The issue is a player one and their inability as a whole to use CC. Fortunately there are groups that run this meta routinely and are fairly successful with each attempt.

    That's kinda the point: it's not a player issue it's a player_s_ issue. One player is blocked and frustrated because of the reliance on getting a bunch of players together to do an unpopular, unrewarding event. Like most open world metas your individual contribution counts for little.

    I'm glad there are groups willing to do this event, I've successfully done it three times myself, all three times for collections or achievements including once for this collection. Other than that it's not worth the time or the frustration of more failed attempts.

    Thinking about it a bit more, for me, the worst aspect is the Stage 1 "hunt the branded" pre-event. I personally wouldn't mind the event failing on the Stage 2 "CC race" as much if it didn't follow a 20-30 minute pre-event and 3 minutes of standing around.

    Also, it would be a whole lot better if people could actually see their Defiance Bar Damage, you see regular HP damage and healing but nothing to indicate how much damage you're doing to the Defiance bars. It'd be nice to see the Defiance Bar icon (the little eagle) and the damage numbers.

  • @gamerzfolk.1732 said:
    Very few people are successfully doing Serpent's Ire, which requires a decent-sized group with good CC skills.

    It can be done with a handful of people.

    Those of us who rely on PUGs cannot always find a decent-sized group.

    It's difficulty is somewhat less than Triple Trouble, somewhat more than Tequatl, so it's not surprising that it isn't successful with PUGs alone. However, a number of guilds organize SI as part of their boss rotation. I can't promise you can find one every day at the time you want; I haven't had trouble finding organized runs, though.

    Most of the large Meta groups are going to Tyria, Dragon Stand, Tarrir, and Istan. Comparatively speaking, very few players venture into PoF for Meta events.

    You might recall that for some time after HoT launched, people did not regularly do those metas. They are old events now and it's trivial to randomly have a large enough core group without planning, so that even TD & DS can succeed without more than a few minutes of planning.

    Despite this, people still don't (on average) know how to pull off a successful T5 Dry Top or T4 Verdant Brink, so those metas, despite being old, also tend to have problems without being formally organized.

    They mostly do bounties in PoF.

    That's good reason to add incentives to SI, rather than remove them.

    tl;dr the difficulty of SI isn't the issue; it's the familiarity we have (collectively) with its mechanics. And that owes more to the fact that humans take the path of least resistance: we prefer the events/farms we know, rather than the ones that might require extra effort on our part.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @gamerzfolk.1732 said:
    How do you motivate someone to do something that is not fun or enjoyable?

    By gating content behind it.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Pifil.5193Pifil.5193 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2018

    Never mind... thought this was another thread.

  • Oglaf.1074Oglaf.1074 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @gamerzfolk.1732 said:
    How do you motivate someone to do something that is not fun or enjoyable?

    By gating content behind it.

    Proven again and again not to work.

    Please Anet give us a hide Chest Armour-option. Tattoo-clad Norns everywhere beg of you.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Pifil.5193 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Pifil.5193 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    To be honest, I have yet to see anyone ever use that backpack skin. What’s the motivation to complete that collection? Just for the sake to have it completed? For another ascended backpack that has been thrown at us with every single LS episode?

    Obtaining that backpack isn’t a necessity for anything in the game. Having it behind a group meta that requires just a little more effort than the player base as a whole are used to doing isn’t really out of line. There are plenty of alternative ways to get an ascended backpack.

    These collections are the mainstay of LS content, saying they're not needed is like saying that playing the game isn't needed.

    Not the same thing.

    Yeah it is, taken to an extreme to highlight how irrelevant the "but you don't have to do it" non argument is but it's the same thing.

    No. It’s a combination of a strawman/slippery slope fallacy. It does absolutely nothing to refute my argument and serves as only a distraction from it.

    The collection reward itself isn’t mandatory for any content in the game. The ascended back items have numerous ways that they can be acquired.

    Person A: I hate having to do this one HP to unlock my elite specs.
    Person B: You don’t have to do that specific one.
    Person C: Well they don’t need to play the game either.

    I think having someone's progress (and yes it's their personal progress) blocked by a unpopular, largely avoided group event is an issue worth raising again and again until they either address the issues with the event or stop trying to push people into doing it.

    It’s not blocked as the meta can be completed just as easily as it could when PoF launched. The issue is a player one and their inability as a whole to use CC. Fortunately there are groups that run this meta routinely and are fairly successful with each attempt.

    That's kinda the point: it's not a player issue it's a player_s_ issue. One player is blocked and frustrated because of the reliance on getting a bunch of players together to do an unpopular, unrewarding event. Like most open world metas your individual contribution counts for little.

    It is a player issue as the reason it’s not getting completed is because of the players inability to perform a simple mechanic. I don’t disagree that it, and other PoF metas, still have a reward issue.

    I'm glad there are groups willing to do this event, I've successfully done it three times myself, all three times for collections or achievements including once for this collection. Other than that it's not worth the time or the frustration of more failed attempts.

    Same goes for many of the other metas. Actually, I feel the same about most metas in the game. I don’t do world bosses because they’re not worth the time/effort. Thats not to say that something couldn’t be done to the rewards of the PoF metas; especially those that require a large group compared to just a handful of players.

    Thinking about it a bit more, for me, the worst aspect is the Stage 1 "hunt the branded" pre-event. I personally wouldn't mind the event failing on the Stage 2 "CC race" as much if it didn't follow a 20-30 minute pre-event and 3 minutes of standing around.

    I agree. I find this stage to be boring. I wouldn’t say that it takes 20-30 min but it does take some time and doesn’t appear to have any relation to the rest of the meta.

    Also, it would be a whole lot better if people could actually see their Defiance Bar Damage, you see regular HP damage and healing but nothing to indicate how much damage you're doing to the Defiance bars. It'd be nice to see the Defiance Bar icon (the little eagle) and the damage numbers.

    That could be helpful. It’d allow players to get the idea of which skills contribute the most to the bar.

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Oglaf.1074 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @gamerzfolk.1732 said:
    How do you motivate someone to do something that is not fun or enjoyable?

    By gating content behind it.

    Proven again and again not to work.

    Pretty true: I wanted the backpack myself and then when i got that stage realized that i needed to do serpents ire and stopped entirely: Ive done it once since PoF came out, and every group ive joined whos tried since has failed so i dont bother anymore. The rewards it offers arent worth the effort required in leading a bunch of uncooperative sheep to try and complete it.

    Ember Wandertooth(SB), Lucina Fallenflame(Weaver), Kianda Redpaw(Guardian), Kingslayer, Light in the Dark.
    Why Guild Wars is called Guild Wars

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2018

    @Vyrulisse.1246 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:
    I say no... those of us that have done the IG backpack had to go through all the same issues but overcame it by joining specific groups that run it... like open community. It is up to you to get yourself organised and try to plan ahead or perhaps organise your own map run.
    What I could get behind is ANET making some fundamental changes to the event in order to make it more accessible and attractive for players run, but seeing how they left content like 3HW it seems unlikely to me that they will, no matter what their data shows them.

    "It was a headache for me so it should be a headache until the end of time." What a selfish statement.

    It's not about being selfish.. there are other ways to grab players back to the meta without dulling the difficulty or the complexity of organisation.
    The issue lies in the fact that as, like any old content, players move on and the content becomes part of a rotation .. but only if the effort to reward is balanced correctly, which SI imo, definitely is not.
    The other problem is that many players just want to either be a sheep and not bother to learn the meta, preferring to following the taco or not prepared to tag up and organise the meta for themselves.. they want it easywin.
    Taking the meta off the grid in terms important towards items, collections etc only serves to kill the map further.
    Better for ANET to take a proper look at their data and learn from it, then make some finer tuning to events, better scaling of the zealots perhaps, less zealots perhaps, more time perhaps, because tbh its the build up to the final fight that players don't want to do.

    I have nothing against fixing the event for others and making it more rewarding for everyone, but I wont back the call to have the content killed off or the importance of it taken away just cos others cant be bothered to make the effort to organise runs for something they need it for or plan ahead to join an open community run like many others do.

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2018

    @Oglaf.1074 said:

    @Carighan.6758 said:
    If anything, we need more motivation to do Serpent's Ire! :open_mouth:

    No. That obviously doesn’t work. Anet keeps shoehorning collections in with this kitten meta patch after patch yet it doesn’t make it more popular. Just more frustrating for the people wanting the things “blocked” by it.

    The meta itself needs a total overhaul to be less... stupid. :confounded:

    Why is it stupid.. because it takes effort and organisation, just like TEQ used to or SW used to or 3HW and well any larger scale content. Or is it stupid because you simply want everything handed to you on a silver spoon?
    There are reasons why ANET tie events to collections and items.. its to keep you playing, it's to provide short, mid, long term goals. It is also a way to keep a level of activity across maps as time moves on. The downside, which imo has been ANETS achilleas heal is that the events simply do not scale down well enough for smaller groups and definitely aren't rewarding enough generally to keep players interested.
    Instead I guess you prefer mind numbing Istan metas offering nothing in terms of challenge, never did but offer the endless loot cycles.. personally I would prefer some kind of half way house between the two.

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Carighan.6758 said:
    How is removing the requirement going to help people doing the meta ,then?

    If anything, we need more motivation to do Serpent's Ire! :open_mouth:

    Exactly this

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Anet could just add new branded inspired armor skin sets as a possible drop attached to ascended armor. Something like those choice boxes but with the option to choose stats while retaining the skin. Then include a collection to collect all of the skins which gives a cool title.

    I’m pretty sure that would get people doing the meta more. They could also allow the armor to be bought with mosaics (like 500 each?) which could also get people farming bounties again.

    The more people doing it would mean that it’d eventually get on farm status as what’s required isn’t really all that difficult to do.

  • Pifil.5193Pifil.5193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Pifil.5193 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Pifil.5193 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    To be honest, I have yet to see anyone ever use that backpack skin. What’s the motivation to complete that collection? Just for the sake to have it completed? For another ascended backpack that has been thrown at us with every single LS episode?

    Obtaining that backpack isn’t a necessity for anything in the game. Having it behind a group meta that requires just a little more effort than the player base as a whole are used to doing isn’t really out of line. There are plenty of alternative ways to get an ascended backpack.

    These collections are the mainstay of LS content, saying they're not needed is like saying that playing the game isn't needed.

    Not the same thing.

    Yeah it is, taken to an extreme to highlight how irrelevant the "but you don't have to do it" non argument is but it's the same thing.

    No. It’s a combination of a strawman/slippery slope fallacy. It does absolutely nothing to refute my argument and serves as only a distraction from it.

    The collection reward itself isn’t mandatory for any content in the game. The ascended back items have numerous ways that they can be acquired.

    Person A: I hate having to do this one HP to unlock my elite specs.
    Person B: You don’t have to do that specific one.
    Person C: Well they don’t need to play the game either.

    OK, you have a point there like I said it was taken to extreme to make a point. Never a good idea on the internet. :)

    The "you don't need it" argument is itself a red herring though. Something doesn't have to be needed in order to be important to someone and just because something isn't needed doesn't mean that someone doesn't have some valid criticism of some aspect of the game. Also it's often used in a dismissive way (which really irks me).

    I think having someone's progress (and yes it's their personal progress) blocked by a unpopular, largely avoided group event is an issue worth raising again and again until they either address the issues with the event or stop trying to push people into doing it.

    It’s not blocked as the meta can be completed just as easily as it could when PoF launched. The issue is a player one and their inability as a whole to use CC. Fortunately there are groups that run this meta routinely and are fairly successful with each attempt.

    That's kinda the point: it's not a player issue it's a player_s_ issue. One player is blocked and frustrated because of the reliance on getting a bunch of players together to do an unpopular, unrewarding event. Like most open world metas your individual contribution counts for little.

    It is a player issue as the reason it’s not getting completed is because of the players inability to perform a simple mechanic. I don’t disagree that it, and other PoF metas, still have a reward issue.

    That's fair enough but ultimately the OP has no control over other players actions or abilities. There's nothing they can do to make other people perform that mechanic, as the old saying goes "you can lead an open-world horse to water but you can't get it to use CC abilities".

    This is the same issue that's been in the game since Tequatl was beefed up; you ultimately have no control over the other people on the map and yet they can cause you to fail in an event and then you have to wait hours for the next chance. Not the end of the world, perhaps, but a source of frustration none the less given the amount of anger and blamestorming in map chat after the failures I was involved in.

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @gamerzfolk.1732 said:
    Seriously? Very few people are going to Serpent's Ire because it is neither fun nor enjoyable. How do you motivate someone to do something that is not fun or enjoyable?

    Look at all the other Meta's that people love to do over and over again. Why do they flock to these Meta's? Answer: Because they are fun and enjoyable.

    How do you organize a PUG for a Meta that has very little attendance?

    Some for sure.. though the more over run ones like Istan has nothing to do with fun it's just lots of easy loot on a continuous rotation.. the fun aspect petered out long ago, for me at least. It has become another mind numbing loot farm now so I can easily pass on it personally and find more enjoyable things to do in game.

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • Kalendraf.9521Kalendraf.9521 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2018

    Serpent's Ire is still being done, and done successfully. I accidentally stumbled into the meta a week or so ago, and we managed to complete it. I'd already done it before, and didn't need it, but I decided to lend a hand. Try doing it around reset time - the map seemed quite busy.

    Proud to be a member of the Charter Vanguard [CV] on the Henge of Denravi

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Pifil.5193 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Pifil.5193 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Pifil.5193 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    To be honest, I have yet to see anyone ever use that backpack skin. What’s the motivation to complete that collection? Just for the sake to have it completed? For another ascended backpack that has been thrown at us with every single LS episode?

    Obtaining that backpack isn’t a necessity for anything in the game. Having it behind a group meta that requires just a little more effort than the player base as a whole are used to doing isn’t really out of line. There are plenty of alternative ways to get an ascended backpack.

    These collections are the mainstay of LS content, saying they're not needed is like saying that playing the game isn't needed.

    Not the same thing.

    Yeah it is, taken to an extreme to highlight how irrelevant the "but you don't have to do it" non argument is but it's the same thing.

    No. It’s a combination of a strawman/slippery slope fallacy. It does absolutely nothing to refute my argument and serves as only a distraction from it.

    The collection reward itself isn’t mandatory for any content in the game. The ascended back items have numerous ways that they can be acquired.

    Person A: I hate having to do this one HP to unlock my elite specs.
    Person B: You don’t have to do that specific one.
    Person C: Well they don’t need to play the game either.

    OK, you have a point there like I said it was taken to extreme to make a point. Never a good idea on the internet. :)

    The "you don't need it" argument is itself a red herring though. Something doesn't have to be needed in order to be important to someone and just because something isn't needed doesn't mean that someone doesn't have some valid criticism of some aspect of the game. Also it's often used in a dismissive way (which really irks me).

    My use of “it not being needed” was in regards to it not being needed to do content. Kind of like how ascended is required in order to do high level fractals. Getting a particular skin, or completing a particular collection, wouldn’t necessarily have that same kind of impact.

    Something being desirable is different and also highly subjective. I try to steer away from arguing whether something is desirable to another as that’s not really my call. I think I mentioned that I haven’t yet seen anyone using that skin which is what led me to believe people are trying to do it just for the sake of completing it. No fault on them for wanting to do that as I do the same too.

    I’m not particularly trying to be dismissive that people are struggling. I just feel there are plenty of alternatives to nerfing everything.

    I think having someone's progress (and yes it's their personal progress) blocked by a unpopular, largely avoided group event is an issue worth raising again and again until they either address the issues with the event or stop trying to push people into doing it.

    It’s not blocked as the meta can be completed just as easily as it could when PoF launched. The issue is a player one and their inability as a whole to use CC. Fortunately there are groups that run this meta routinely and are fairly successful with each attempt.

    That's kinda the point: it's not a player issue it's a player_s_ issue. One player is blocked and frustrated because of the reliance on getting a bunch of players together to do an unpopular, unrewarding event. Like most open world metas your individual contribution counts for little.

    It is a player issue as the reason it’s not getting completed is because of the players inability to perform a simple mechanic. I don’t disagree that it, and other PoF metas, still have a reward issue.

    That's fair enough but ultimately the OP has no control over other players actions or abilities. There's nothing they can do to make other people perform that mechanic, as the old saying goes "you can lead an open-world horse to water but you can't get it to use CC abilities".

    This is the same issue that's been in the game since Tequatl was beefed up; you ultimately have no control over the other people on the map and yet they can cause you to fail in an event and then you have to wait hours for the next chance. Not the end of the world, perhaps, but a source of frustration none the less given the amount of anger and blamestorming in map chat after the failures I was involved in.

    True, there’s nothing that the OP can really do but that’s the nature of any group event. I remember Vinetooth Prime being such a struggle for large groups but when they do eventually CC it properly, it burns down so fast.

    I think if we can get people to consistently do the meta like they do with Teq, it’ll eventually get easier as you’ll have a pool of players that know what to do.

  • Carighan.6758Carighan.6758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Oglaf.1074 said:
    Proven again and again not to work.

    And yet proven just as often that it works. There are exceptions, because the reward-balance is off. But overall it works. Do you think people do Domain of Istan advanacement because they enjoy it themselves? O.o

  • Discoteka.2758Discoteka.2758 Member ✭✭
    edited August 31, 2018

    Yeah....I had to take a break due to school and being relocated for work. Now that I'm back playing and working on the IG backpack....well...you guys know the story. I am just tossing this project until something happens because getting anyone for this meta is impossible during the times I am able to play with my work schedule. 😭

  • Guys, I am in pain. A lot of pain. I can't host this event anymore. It makes me dizzy, nauseous, and my arms hurt. If you truly want this event done, you'll have to host it yourself. It's scary, it will take effort, and you will probably fail the first time, but with enough wits and enough practice it can be done. Sometimes you can rake in a lot of money from tips if you command it yourself. It's even easier if you have a guild. I'm going to link to my rather snarky explanations to how these events can be done.

    (1): A breakdown of the event as a whole
    (2): A breakdown of how good each class is at CC
    (3): How to command Serpent's Ire

    As always, there is a new strategy that works fairly well. If you can get two other tags together, you can do the three way strat:

    Tag One and Tag Two start on the bottom corners of the square. These are the more bloated groups. They kill their zealot, then move upward to kill the next zealot, then come together at the third and final one.

    Tag 3 is a smaller group of 10 players or so who's primary job is to CC and focus down the zealot that sits right on the Broken Mirror of Lyssa PoI. By CCing this zealot a lot, it allows the other groups to do more damage.

    Also, ignore everything I've said about condition damage not working. I did a few experiments, and it turns out that conditions continue to tick at nearly force after the shield comes back up.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • segman.3560segman.3560 Member ✭✭✭

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    Guys, I am in pain. A lot of pain. I can't host this event anymore. It makes me dizzy, nauseous, and my arms hurt. If you truly want this event done, you'll have to host it yourself. It's scary, it will take effort, and you will probably fail the first time, but with enough wits and enough practice it can be done. Sometimes you can rake in a lot of money from tips if you command it yourself. It's even easier if you have a guild. I'm going to link to my rather snarky explanations to how these events can be done.

    (1): A breakdown of the event as a whole
    (2): A breakdown of how good each class is at CC
    (3): How to command Serpent's Ire

    As always, there is a new strategy that works fairly well. If you can get two other tags together, you can do the three way strat:

    Tag One and Tag Two start on the bottom corners of the square. These are the more bloated groups. They kill their zealot, then move upward to kill the next zealot, then come together at the third and final one.

    Tag 3 is a smaller group of 10 players or so who's primary job is to CC and focus down the zealot that sits right on the Broken Mirror of Lyssa PoI. By CCing this zealot a lot, it allows the other groups to do more damage.

    Also, ignore everything I've said about condition damage not working. I did a few experiments, and it turns out that conditions continue to tick at nearly force after the shield comes back up.

    So much effort for close to no rewards.

  • For others. I once pulled in 50g from tips. Though if you get two other commanders it is significantly easier to organize.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • Etria.3642Etria.3642 Member ✭✭✭

    They do really need to muck with this event. I have done it once to get the backpack requirement(and I do actually use it on a character, he's cute) but I also swore I would never ever ever do it again. It required roughly 75 people(we had more) 3 tags who all were communicating with each other in voice and we /still/ nearly failed it. You can tell people to bring their breakbar skills before the fight until you are blue in the face but they won't do it. And to top it off if you get knocked off your mount you're screwed. And nothing is conveniently close. You have to scramble all over to find the randomly spawning things. It doesn't even feel like something that gets easier with time(like Teq or raids) because so few do it. And you can't even restart it if something goes wrong like you can with Teq or Triple Trouble.

    Usually I will go back and do something I dislike to help out a guildie(the meta in Draconis Mons comes to mind, it takes SO LONG to get to the actual bosses) but this one is on my hell no not without some cold hard cash list.

    I suspect they made it difficult because there will be yet more content gated behind it. Another legendary trinket maybe? Aurora was the only thing that got me to go back and do some of THOSE disliked events. But if they changed the requirement to a bounty I sure wouldn't mind. Would anyone even ever do Serpents Ire after that though?

  • Oglaf.1074Oglaf.1074 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Carighan.6758 said:

    @Oglaf.1074 said:
    Proven again and again not to work.

    And yet proven just as often that it works. There are exceptions, because the reward-balance is off. But overall it works. Do you think people do Domain of Istan advanacement because they enjoy it themselves? O.o

    No. It has never proven to work for this particular meta. Never will.

    Please Anet give us a hide Chest Armour-option. Tattoo-clad Norns everywhere beg of you.

  • starlinvf.1358starlinvf.1358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Oglaf.1074 said:

    @Carighan.6758 said:

    @Oglaf.1074 said:
    Proven again and again not to work.

    And yet proven just as often that it works. There are exceptions, because the reward-balance is off. But overall it works. Do you think people do Domain of Istan advanacement because they enjoy it themselves? O.o

    No. It has never proven to work for this particular meta. Never will.

    You mean finding a group of 25 people with mechanical competence will never work? Or that people will refuse to bang their head against the wall, when they clearly will when something they want is on the other side..... and will bang harder it the more times they come back to it?

    So I guess the question is how do we fix a social issue in a game where people no longer care about other people?

  • flog.3485flog.3485 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 1, 2018

    It would be awesome if guilds could trigger the meta event just like they can trigger a world boss like tequatl. And have the members of said guild gain extra loot for doing so.

  • Hyper Cutter.9376Hyper Cutter.9376 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Serpent's Ire needs two changes:
    1. The zealots in the first phase are shown on the map. Playing hide and seek with them in roughly 1/3 of the zone while dealing with the screw-you-storm isn't interesting or fun in any way.
    2. Slash the scaling of the zealot's defiance bars in the second phase, their health, or both. Break bar scaling has always been an unbalanced disaster, especially given the... uneven access to CC most professions have in the first place (with much of what they do have stuck on weapons that most people aren't going to be using because they're mediocre otherwise, especially in terms of damage).

    If you really want to be spicy, add an amalgamated gemstone as a reward on top of the existing ones. Also a successful meta should turn off the brandstorm until the next cycle, because that's really how it should have worked in the first place.

  • I rather they nerf Serpents Ire.

    6x warrior/5xRanger/6x Revenant/6x Mesmer/5x Guardian/6x Thief/5x Engineer/5x Necromancer/5x Elementalist

  • Carighan.6758Carighan.6758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Oglaf.1074 said:
    No. It has never proven to work for this particular meta. Never will.

    Well yeah, if you reduce it to just this particular attempt at this particular meta, sure, in all 1 of 1 samples the rewards did not motivate people.

    Though, since in all 1 of 1 silverwastes zones they did, clearly the system works in 100% of cases, right? :wink:

  • @Oglaf.1074 said:

    @Carighan.6758 said:

    @Oglaf.1074 said:
    Proven again and again not to work.

    And yet proven just as often that it works. There are exceptions, because the reward-balance is off. But overall it works. Do you think people do Domain of Istan advanacement because they enjoy it themselves? O.o

    No. It has never proven to work for this particular meta. Never will.

    It works and it does not work.

    When collections first come out involving the event, there's a large enough mass of players wanting to get this event done. That's when it works.

    After that mass of players gets what they need, there's still no core incentive to do the event so it does not get done usually. That's when it does not work.

    Improve the core rewards to give incentive. Maybe a mystic coin, an amalgamated gemstone, or banish the brandstorm for a cycle and reveal nodes made entirely of gem orbs. Right now it's just perverse to make a difficult event with little reward.

  • Ashabhi.1365Ashabhi.1365 Member ✭✭✭

    I had heard nightmare stories about this meta since day one and truly didn't expect to get into a good group this "late" in the life of PoF. Last night, I happened to get into a squad that had a commander that absolutely knew what he (or she) was doing. Out of nowhere, he managed to gather the people, explain the meta and execute the strategy. All it took was starting early (like a half our to an hour) and explaining how each phase worked repeatedly. Having never done it before, I had time to change my skills and weapons and position myself where I would do the most good (or at least do the least harm.) The meta went off without a hitch and I got what I needed from the event. It CAN be done with the right person at the helm.

    Should they nerf it? I don't think so. I think the last thing this game needs to do is dumb down one of the most difficult metas in the game. This game NEEDS some difficult content that makes up for its plethora of easy yet time consuming metas of other maps. Should the rewards be better? Yes, absolutely. I love difficult content, but I won't repeat it unless there's a reason. Once a person gets the AP or Required Item from an event, repetition is tedious, not fun... unless there's a chance that the rewards will equal the effort. Of course, I've said that for a very long time. Nobody wants to drag themselves through a vat of stinging nettles for a piece of cotton and a left nasal inhaler.

  • Rococo.8347Rococo.8347 Member ✭✭✭

    Shout out for GW2Community who not only got me through this but got me all of the achiev for the Triple Wurm aswell - check out their website they have regular days that they do this type of thing.

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