Lets talk about Superior Sigil of Bloodlust - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Lets talk about Superior Sigil of Bloodlust

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  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 1, 2018

    @TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    It is tied to the sigil, and the sigil is tied to the weapon.
    Again you are starting completely irrelevant topic. How useful SoB will be is a different story. We can as well discuss how useful ele is. Again, this is not the point!

    Then explain to me why the bloodlust buff is listed among other character-wide buffs if it's not supposed to be a character-wide buff.

    Again irrelevant topic, but how about a source, a link so I can take a look at it.

    Your source is ingame. Just use the sigil and see where the stacks are listed. It's among the boost/banner buffs, the boons (alacrity, aegis, might, etc.). Everything that's listed there is character-wide and not bound to gear. Stacks of Bloodlust/Corruption/Perception and whatever other sigils build up stacks are listed among all those character-wide buffs. It's not irrelevant. It's actually quite relevant but you choose to ignore it because it undermines your argument. How about you stop being subjective and ignore obvious proof, and instead look at this objectively.

    Also, because you find this stacking system unfair, that doesn't make it an exploit. Again, you do not grasp the meaning of the concept, it seems.

    Sorry, its not listed here... Stop making up things. We are talking with facts.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Buff
    Just because the UI position it there doesn't mean its the same like buffs.

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • Oglaf.1074Oglaf.1074 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Sorry, but I don’t see the issue. If you want to basically handicap one of your weapon sets (as there are plenty faaaar better options, especially in PvP) for this, go for it.

    Personally I would never do it because the aforementioned self-imposed handicapping.

    Please Anet give us a hide Chest Armour-option. Tattoo-clad Norns everywhere beg of you.

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 1, 2018

    @Oglaf.1074 said:
    Sorry, but I don’t see the issue. If you want to basically handicap one of your weapon sets (as there are plenty faaaar better options, especially in PvP) for this, go for it.

    Personally I would never do it because the aforementioned self-imposed handicapping.

    Handicapping? Open all Scourge, Rangers, Mesmers videos - they are all using this thing. To me, it looks like the best thing ever and not handicapping anything.
    The issue is that it is not fair to professions that can't have 2 sigils + 250 power buff on their main damage weapon.
    It is working good with the underwater weapons. It should work the same with the rest - you will have to put another SoB in the other weapon set if you want to keep the stacks. It is said in the wiki and it is logical and fair to be like this.

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

    Your source is ingame. Just use the sigil and see where the stacks are listed. It's among the boost/banner buffs, the boons (alacrity, aegis, might, etc.). Everything that's listed there is character-wide and not bound to gear. Stacks of Bloodlust/Corruption/Perception and whatever other sigils build up stacks are listed among all those character-wide buffs. It's not irrelevant. It's actually quite relevant but you choose to ignore it because it undermines your argument. How about you stop being subjective and ignore obvious proof, and instead look at this objectively.

    Also, because you find this stacking system unfair, that doesn't make it an exploit. Again, you do not grasp the meaning of the concept, it seems.

    Sorry, its not listed here... Stop making up things. We are talking with facts.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Buff

    For crying out loud, read what I wrote. I'm not making up anything. Go ingame, use the sigil and look where the icon for the bloodlust stacking is listed. It's among all those other buffs. And it is a buff, since it increases your Power. So actually it's listed right on top of the list on the page you linked, namely increased attributes. This whole idea that it should not be maintained when you switch weapons is just in your head. Just because you think it should be that way, doesn't mean that the current implementation is faulty, or even an exploit. An exploit is something that gives an unfair advantage. Anyone with a SoB will have the same effect applied, so there's no unfair advantage there.

    The game trumps the wiki in that regard. Also, the wiki is fanmade and can contain errors/be incomplete. Your attempts at steering the argument your way are laughably incompetent.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Effect_stacking

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 1, 2018

    @bOTEB.1573 said:
    Currently, professions which can swap weapons can put the sigil in their secondary weapon set, build the 25 stacks and keep these stacks while playing with their primary weapon/s.
    This makes their primary weapons benefit from 3 sigil effects.
    How is this balanced and fair compared to professions which can't swap weapons, like the ele?

    It's not, but that doesn't really mean it can't or shouldn't happen. There are lots of 'unfair' things in the game and it's not really a reason to change it; the game isn't an exercise in being the most fair possible.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

    Your source is ingame. Just use the sigil and see where the stacks are listed. It's among the boost/banner buffs, the boons (alacrity, aegis, might, etc.). Everything that's listed there is character-wide and not bound to gear. Stacks of Bloodlust/Corruption/Perception and whatever other sigils build up stacks are listed among all those character-wide buffs. It's not irrelevant. It's actually quite relevant but you choose to ignore it because it undermines your argument. How about you stop being subjective and ignore obvious proof, and instead look at this objectively.

    Also, because you find this stacking system unfair, that doesn't make it an exploit. Again, you do not grasp the meaning of the concept, it seems.

    Sorry, its not listed here... Stop making up things. We are talking with facts.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Buff

    For crying out loud, read what I wrote. I'm not making up anything. Go ingame, use the sigil and look where the icon for the bloodlust stacking is listed. It's among all those other buffs. And it is a buff, since it increases your Power. So actually it's listed right on top of the list on the page you linked, namely increased attributes. This whole idea that it should not be maintained when you switch weapons is just in your head. Just because you think it should be that way, doesn't mean that the current implementation is faulty, or even an exploit. An exploit is something that gives an unfair advantage. Anyone with a SoB will have the same effect applied, so there's no unfair advantage there.

    The game trumps the wiki in that regard. Also, the wiki is fanmade and can contain errors/be incomplete. Your attempts at steering the argument your way are laughably incompetent.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Effect_stacking

    First - I am not crying but discussing.
    Absolutely irrelevant again. Please, tell me, how the position of the icon of this effect justifies its functionality? I have literally copy-pasted how the sigil should work and it is working differently from that. With that said, how is this only in my head? AGAIN, I think that it should be this way not because of my personal opinion but because of the provided info in the official gw2 wiki. Also, please try to edit something in the wiki and see if it will be posted without review and stay there for a long time. I have logically explained to you why it shouldn't be the way and it is ok for you to disagree and give your opinion on how it should be. But you can't disagree to the difference of what the info says and what it actually is. If the info is different from the effect it means that it is not working as intended. Anyone with SoB will have the unfair advantage, yes - thank you for agreeing on this! BUT, what else will the ele have if they put SoB in? One more sigil (only one), not 2 - understand this, thanks!
    P.S Namely increased attributes? So my gear gives me increased attributes too. Why isnt it considered a buff? Your logic is flawed.

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:
    Currently, professions which can swap weapons can put the sigil in their secondary weapon set, build the 25 stacks and keep these stacks while playing with their primary weapon/s.
    This makes their primary weapons benefit from 3 sigil effects.
    How is this balanced and fair compared to professions which can't swap weapons, like the ele?

    It's not, but that doesn't really mean it can't or shouldn't happen. There are lots of 'unfair' things in the game and it's not really a reason to change it; the game isn't an exercise in being the most fair possible.

    Thank you for agreeing it is not balanced. And it does mean it shouldn't happen because it is not intended to happen like this.

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • Hoon.1524Hoon.1524 Member ✭✭✭

    But I don't see the proof that it's logically imbalanced, even if the wiki says it. Give me numbers and math and detailed code from Anet.

  • @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

    For crying out loud, read what I wrote. I'm not making up anything. Go ingame, use the sigil and look where the icon for the bloodlust stacking is listed. It's among all those other buffs. And it is a buff, since it increases your Power. So actually it's listed right on top of the list on the page you linked, namely increased attributes. This whole idea that it should not be maintained when you switch weapons is just in your head. Just because you think it should be that way, doesn't mean that the current implementation is faulty, or even an exploit. An exploit is something that gives an unfair advantage. Anyone with a SoB will have the same effect applied, so there's no unfair advantage there.

    The game trumps the wiki in that regard. Also, the wiki is fanmade and can contain errors/be incomplete. Your attempts at steering the argument your way are laughably incompetent.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Effect_stacking

    First - I am not crying but discussing.
    Absolutely irrelevant again. Please, tell me, how the position of the icon of this effect justifies its functionality? I have literally copy-pasted how the sigil should work and it is working differently from that. With that said, how is this only in my head? AGAIN, I think that it should be this way not because of my personal opinion but because of the provided info in the official gw2 wiki. Also, please try to edit something in the wiki and see if it will be posted without review and stay there for a long time. I have logically explained to you why it shouldn't be the way and it is ok for you to disagree and give your opinion on how it should be. But you can't disagree to the difference of what the info says and what it actually is. If the info is different from the effect it means that it is not working as intended. Anyone with SoB will have the unfair advantage, yes - thank you for agreeing on this! BUT, what else will the ele have if they put SoB in? One more sigil (only one), not 2 - understand this, thanks!
    P.S Namely increased attributes? So my gear gives me increased attributes too. Why isnt it considered a buff? Your logic is flawed.

    I see now your comprehensive reading abilities aren't up to par. I never agreed with you on anything. In fact, I did the exact opposite. Yet somehow you got that from my post. For me this discussion is closed. There's nothing to be gained in discussing something with someone who will dodge logical arguments and insist on repeating themselves over and over, purposefully ignoring arguments contrary to your position.

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hoon.1524 said:
    But I don't see the proof that it's logically imbalanced, even if the wiki says it. Give me numbers and math and detailed code from Anet.

    You don't see proof of what? Some players are getting 250 power from a sigil while using other 2 sigils in that weapon. A zerk gear has a little more than 2600 power which automatically means this is ~9-10% more power to the build from a sigil that isn't even used in the weapon he is attacking you with. These are more than 8 additional stacks of might without duration while having 2 different, fully functional sigils in your weapon. A skilled player with the right build will never lose these stacks but even if he loses them he can gain them super fast again. That is why it is not balanced compared to professions which can't swap weapons. But this is not the only point. It shouldn't work like this ATM and it should be changed so it works as intended.

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

    For crying out loud, read what I wrote. I'm not making up anything. Go ingame, use the sigil and look where the icon for the bloodlust stacking is listed. It's among all those other buffs. And it is a buff, since it increases your Power. So actually it's listed right on top of the list on the page you linked, namely increased attributes. This whole idea that it should not be maintained when you switch weapons is just in your head. Just because you think it should be that way, doesn't mean that the current implementation is faulty, or even an exploit. An exploit is something that gives an unfair advantage. Anyone with a SoB will have the same effect applied, so there's no unfair advantage there.

    The game trumps the wiki in that regard. Also, the wiki is fanmade and can contain errors/be incomplete. Your attempts at steering the argument your way are laughably incompetent.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Effect_stacking

    First - I am not crying but discussing.
    Absolutely irrelevant again. Please, tell me, how the position of the icon of this effect justifies its functionality? I have literally copy-pasted how the sigil should work and it is working differently from that. With that said, how is this only in my head? AGAIN, I think that it should be this way not because of my personal opinion but because of the provided info in the official gw2 wiki. Also, please try to edit something in the wiki and see if it will be posted without review and stay there for a long time. I have logically explained to you why it shouldn't be the way and it is ok for you to disagree and give your opinion on how it should be. But you can't disagree to the difference of what the info says and what it actually is. If the info is different from the effect it means that it is not working as intended. Anyone with SoB will have the unfair advantage, yes - thank you for agreeing on this! BUT, what else will the ele have if they put SoB in? One more sigil (only one), not 2 - understand this, thanks!
    P.S Namely increased attributes? So my gear gives me increased attributes too. Why isnt it considered a buff? Your logic is flawed.

    I see now your comprehensive reading abilities aren't up to par. I never agreed with you on anything. In fact, I did the exact opposite. Yet somehow you got that from my post. For me this discussion is closed. There's nothing to be gained in discussing something with someone who will dodge logical arguments and insist on repeating themselves over and over, purposefully ignoring arguments contrary to your position.

    I gave you a super logical and constructive answer. I am not sure what exactly did I dodge? I managed to talk about everything you have asked/told in your previous post, how am I dodging anything? You can leave the topic if you want, thank you for your participation!

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 1, 2018

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Hoon.1524 said:
    But I don't see the proof that it's logically imbalanced, even if the wiki says it. Give me numbers and math and detailed code from Anet.

    You don't see proof of what? Some players are getting 250 power from a sigil while using other 2 sigils in that weapon. A zerk gear has a little more than 2600 power which automatically means this is ~9-10% more power to the build from a sigil that isn't even used in the weapon he is attacking you with. These are more than 8 additional stacks of might without duration while having 2 different, fully functional sigils in your weapon. A skilled player with the right build will never lose these stacks but even if he loses them he can gain them super fast again. That is why it is not balanced compared to professions which can't swap weapons. But this is not the only point. It shouldn't work like this ATM and it should be changed so it works as intended.

    They are getting potentially 250 power and losing 1 sigil even if that is on the off set.

    Which part of it's balanced enough don't you get?

    What about on swap effect sigils which expire after x seconds forcing you to swap weapons? Do those need re-balance too? After all they provide no benefit if camping on 1 weapon set.

    You have taken a very narrow situation of mostly gimmick or 1 trick pony builds (which aren't even that useful in the grand scheme of things and certainly not for the only game mode this might affect WvW) and are trying to argue imbalance and literally everyone disagrees with you, including Arenanet since they have kept the Sigil in game for nearly 6 years.

    The stacking Sigils were even buffed specifically for spvp where they provide 5 stacks (instead of initially 1) to encourage the use of this sigil type, yet they are still not getting used.

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Hoon.1524 said:
    But I don't see the proof that it's logically imbalanced, even if the wiki says it. Give me numbers and math and detailed code from Anet.

    You don't see proof of what? Some players are getting 250 power from a sigil while using other 2 sigils in that weapon. A zerk gear has a little more than 2600 power which automatically means this is ~9-10% more power to the build from a sigil that isn't even used in the weapon he is attacking you with. These are more than 8 additional stacks of might without duration while having 2 different, fully functional sigils in your weapon. A skilled player with the right build will never lose these stacks but even if he loses them he can gain them super fast again. That is why it is not balanced compared to professions which can't swap weapons. But this is not the only point. It shouldn't work like this ATM and it should be changed so it works as intended.

    They are getting potentially 250 power and losing 1 sigil even if that is on the off set.

    Which part of it's balanced enough don't you get?

    What about on swap effect sigils which expire after x seconds forcing you to swap weapons? Do those need re-balance too? After all they provide no benefit if camping on 1 weapon set.

    You have taken a very narrow situation of mostly gimmick or 1 trick pony builds (which aren't even that useful in the grand scheme of things and certainly not for the only game mode this might affect WvW) and are trying to argue imbalance and literally everyone disagrees with you, including Arenanet since they have kept the Sigil in game for nearly 6 years.

    The stacking Sigils were even buffed specifically for spvp where they provide 5 stacks (instead of initially 1) to encourage the use of this sigil type, yet they are still not getting used.

    I can't give an opinion on other sigils at the moment but I giving some on SoB.
    Yes, they give up sigil slot to use SoB and they should get its effect. As an upgradeable component which confers additional benefits (such as increased attributes or effects added to attacks) while wielding that piece and without being downed or switching to a weapon set that lacks the sigil, they should get this effect.
    But you are trying to tell me that even if they are not wielding this weapon and even if they are switching to a weapon set that lacks the sigil they should still get its effect?
    This is clearly not as intended.
    If you don't like how it should work, maybe change the sigil?

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 1, 2018

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:
    If you don't like how it should work, maybe change the sigil?

    I'm fine with how the Sigil works. You're the one arguing imbalance and asking for change.

    I didn't say "how it works" but how it "should work" (there is a grammatical difference) and it shouldn't work like how it works atm. Also, your opinion on if it is balanced or not is basically yours against mine. The word intended means planned or meant. I have pasted you how the sigil is meant to be, yet you are arguing about this, which is useless at this point. I understand your frustration but for the sake of the balance, this should be changed. I am able to agree that the players using it should keep its effect and not lose stacks BUT only when they are using this specific set where the sigil is slotted. In other words, they keep the stacks but not benefit from the power bonus when switching to a weapon which doesn't have the sigil slotted. Otherwise, they are giving up on 1 slot in one of their sets but it is like using a 3rd slot on their other sets.

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 1, 2018

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:
    If you don't like how it should work, maybe change the sigil?

    I'm fine with how the Sigil works. You're the one arguing imbalance and asking for change.

    I didn't say "how it works" but how it "should work" (there is a grammatical difference) and it shouldn't work like how it works atm. Also, your opinion on if it is balanced or not is basically yours against mine. The word intended means planned or meant. I have pasted you how the sigil is meant to be, yet you are arguing about this, which is useless at this point.

    You have pasted how the wiki (which is player maintained) describes the sigil.

    I have stated how the history of the sigil has been and what I believe to be the case (that Arenanet are fine with it and by the amount of use it sees, it is not unbalanced).

    Yes your opinion versus mine or any one else. With a difference that you are advocating for change, I am not.

  • Zaraki.5784Zaraki.5784 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 1, 2018

    This "problem" (it's not a problem) would also exist on every "on weapon swap" sigil, not just Bloodlast and on every other stacking bonus sigil (precision, healing power, etc).
    Either way it's not a problem, if you are on a non-swap profession (engi&ele), you do that knowing that this issue is a fact and it won't change, it has always been so since launch.

    "Sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never be able to injure you!"
    The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 1, 2018

    Meh ... haven't bothered using this in a while.

    Still got it left over on a few characters but I would not use this on any new setup.

    In PvE it is only good for open world. sPvP has its own system which leaves just WvW...

    @Zaraki.5784 said:
    This "problem" (it's not a problem) would also exist on every "on weapon swap" sigil, not just Bloodlast and on every other stacking bonus sigil (precision, healing power, etc).
    Either way it's not a problem, if you are on a non-swap profession (engi&ele), you do that knowing that this issue is a fact and it won't change, it has always been so since launch.

    On swap is not relevant at all because that is triggered by a wide range of stuff including attunement changes on ele and kits on engineer.

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:
    If you don't like how it should work, maybe change the sigil?

    I'm fine with how the Sigil works. You're the one arguing imbalance and asking for change.

    I didn't say "how it works" but how it "should work" (there is a grammatical difference) and it shouldn't work like how it works atm. Also, your opinion on if it is balanced or not is basically yours against mine. The word intended means planned or meant. I have pasted you how the sigil is meant to be, yet you are arguing about this, which is useless at this point.

    You have pasted how the wiki (which is player maintained) describes the sigil.

    I have stated how the history of the sigil has been and what I believe to be the case (that Arenanet are fine with it and by the amount of use it sees, it is not unbalanced).

    Yes your opinion versus mine or any one else. With a difference that you are advocating for change, I am not.

    So we need a nice dev to post if the wiki is wrong or the sigil is not working as intended so we can correct one of them.

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • Ubi.4136Ubi.4136 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 1, 2018

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Ubi.4136 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Ubi.4136 said:
    The 250 power from bloodlust is nothing compared to a lot of skills or even the food/utility buffs. Most high end builds are not relying on the bloodlust sigil for damage. A force sigil and air sigil are a lot more reliable power that you never lose when dying. Mirage is still overtuned, like a lot of PoF stuff, but the sigil of bloodlust is NOT the problem. It's not even A problem in wvw.

    Good, then removing this shouldn't be a problem at all for you.
    Seems like people aren't using it, so they won't notice if something like that is changed, right?

    I'm guessing you are ok with removing the corruption sigil too? Or the stars sigil? Any of the +stat sigils?
    Food and utility buffs can actually make annoying builds totally broken/unbalanced, so all food and utility buffs should be removed from wvw too...right?
    If your only complaint is you are killing too many people playing mirage, and you think it's your bloodlust sigil that is the problem, you need to reevaluate some things.

    Any sigil that benefits a weapon set which it is not in, should be changed so it doesn't buff it
    We are talking about the sigil of 2nd weapon set that benefits the 1st weapon set, not about the food.

    Ok, so let's use your example. Let's say I am playing staff on my first weapon and longbow on my second. Someone places conditions on me while I have staff equipped. With a sigil of cleansing on my longbow, I could switch and lose a condition that I earned while playing staff. So, that has to go. No reason my second weapon set should be able to affect my play time on my main weapon set. I should have to keep that condition. Or, sigil of energy. I used a bunch of stamina playing my main weapon set, no reason I should be able to get more stamina just because my alternate weapon set didn't earn it. It was lost on my main weapon so that sigil has to go according to you.

    Ele and eng are more than compensated by the sheer volume of skills and utilities they can field over other classes, that weapon swap bonus is not an issue. They too can use the stat stacking sigils btw. Engineer, for example, can equip a bloodlust sigil, use the grenade kit, and they still earn the bonus for each kill, because it is IN their weapon. No one is being neglected here. Same holds true for ele and weapon summons.

    And yes, you have to include food and utility items in your complaint. You made such a big deal about +250 to a stat, there are items that grant +200 power just because your health is over 90%. Food/utility buffs are incredibly strong, no reason to have THAT much added to some specs.

    I'm not sure who you lost to, or what class/build they were playing. But, I can assure you that the sigil of bloodlust is not the reason you died to a build.

    Carnished Toast (Yum)
    Lost in the Maguuma (TC)

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 1, 2018

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:
    If you don't like how it should work, maybe change the sigil?

    I'm fine with how the Sigil works. You're the one arguing imbalance and asking for change.

    I didn't say "how it works" but how it "should work" (there is a grammatical difference) and it shouldn't work like how it works atm. Also, your opinion on if it is balanced or not is basically yours against mine. The word intended means planned or meant. I have pasted you how the sigil is meant to be, yet you are arguing about this, which is useless at this point.

    You have pasted how the wiki (which is player maintained) describes the sigil.

    I have stated how the history of the sigil has been and what I believe to be the case (that Arenanet are fine with it and by the amount of use it sees, it is not unbalanced).

    Yes your opinion versus mine or any one else. With a difference that you are advocating for change, I am not.

    So we need a nice dev to post if the wiki is wrong or the sigil is not working as intended so we can correct one of them.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil#Stacking_bonus

    Stacking bonus
    Gain up to 25 stacks of an effect that grants an attribute bonus per stack or grants a bonus when you reach the maximum amount of stacks. On-kill sigils gain 5 stacks upon killing an enemy player in all areas of the game. You can only have one attribute stacking bonus at a time, but as many bonus-with-final-stack sigils as feasible. The bonus is lost when you are downed, when you travel to a different zone, or when you unequip the weapon. Unequip includes switching to and from underwater weapons while not having the identical sigil in the weapon sets that you start using (this means player only need 2 same sigils to keep the stack; 1 sigil on any land weapon, the other on any underwater weapon).

    The corresponding wiki is correct is it not? Yes, the overarching one might need some corrections if you consider a weapon set as only 1 of the weapon swaps. The terminology used in the wiki indicates that the term "weapon set" is used to describe both swapped weapon combinations.

    Good luck getting a developer response on something this trivial. At best if ever you might see a mention in the patch notes IF the devs ever decide to change anything here.

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 1, 2018

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:
    If you don't like how it should work, maybe change the sigil?

    I'm fine with how the Sigil works. You're the one arguing imbalance and asking for change.

    I didn't say "how it works" but how it "should work" (there is a grammatical difference) and it shouldn't work like how it works atm. Also, your opinion on if it is balanced or not is basically yours against mine. The word intended means planned or meant. I have pasted you how the sigil is meant to be, yet you are arguing about this, which is useless at this point.

    You have pasted how the wiki (which is player maintained) describes the sigil.

    I have stated how the history of the sigil has been and what I believe to be the case (that Arenanet are fine with it and by the amount of use it sees, it is not unbalanced).

    Yes your opinion versus mine or any one else. With a difference that you are advocating for change, I am not.

    So we need a nice dev to post if the wiki is wrong or the sigil is not working as intended so we can correct one of them.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil#Stacking_bonus

    Stacking bonus
    Gain up to 25 stacks of an effect that grants an attribute bonus per stack or grants a bonus when you reach the maximum amount of stacks. On-kill sigils gain 5 stacks upon killing an enemy player in all areas of the game. You can only have one attribute stacking bonus at a time, but as many bonus-with-final-stack sigils as feasible. The bonus is lost when you are downed, when you travel to a different zone, or when you unequip the weapon. Unequip includes switching to and from underwater weapons while not having the identical sigil in the weapon sets that you start using (this means player only need 2 same sigils to keep the stack; 1 sigil on any land weapon, the other on any underwater weapon).

    The corresponding wiki is correct is it not? Yes, the overarching one might need some corrections if you consider a weapon set as only 1 of the weapon swaps. The terminology used in the wiki indicates that the term "weapon set" is used to describe both swapped weapon combinations.

    Good luck getting a developer response on something this trivial. At best if ever you might see a mention in the patch notes IF the devs ever decide to change anything here.

    "The bonus is lost when you are downed, when you travel to a different zone, or when you unequip the weapon."
    At this point, we don't need anything else. Also, I don't see a reason why a dev can't respond to this.
    From the same page:
    "A sigil affects all skills while the weapon set with the sigil is active."
    This means that the sigil shouldn't affect any skills while the weapon set with the sigil isn't active.

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • @bOTEB.1573 said:
    Currently, professions which can swap weapons can put the sigil in their secondary weapon set, build the 25 stacks and keep these stacks while playing with their primary weapon/s.
    This makes their primary weapons benefit from 3 sigil effects.
    How is this balanced and fair compared to professions which can't swap weapons, like the ele?

    Lets put it simply oh so you have only 1 weapon so you dont get the benefit of weapon swapping with bloodlust boo hoo.
    Everytime you switch atunement you get the benefit of a weapon swap, so that means a fair deal of sigils proc alot more often on an ele lol. What was the cd for atunement again ? 8 sec and 4 if your a weaver ?. sooo eles can wep swap 4x or 8x more than any other class ?

    Sounds fair and balanced right ? maybe they should just remove ele ;p

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    ANet clearly thinks that all stacking sigils, including Sup Bloodlust are working as intended. We know this because (as mentioned above), ANet has adjusted how stacking sigils work so that (a) you can't remove the weapon with the sigil and (b) you can go underwater and out without losing stacks (as long as you have the sigil on both terrestrial and aquatic weapons). If ANet thought that stacks should drop on weapon swap, they would have made that change years ago. Generally speaking, ANet has always supported risk-vs-reward choices: e.g. go all glass for more damage and risk getting one-shot by high-burst, or so less damage with higher durability.

    So regardless of how anyone wants to interpret the player-written explanation of the mechanics (i.e. on the wiki), the fact is that if the OP wants this to change, they need to convince ANet that there's an issue. Rhetorically speaking, it's not useful to toss out words like "exploit" or "broken" without explanation. Show examples of 1v1 where 25 bloodlust stacks always beats those without, where GvG guilds recommend Bloodlust for their statics, where MetaBattle or world-specific websites recommend the sigil.

    In other words, it's not enough to say, "yeah I do really well using this sigil." One just show to ANet that the existing mechanic dominates everything else.

    Personally, I think it's doubtful that ANet will change their mind. It seems very unlikely that the OP would be the first person to take advantage of such a loophole without any tradeoffs.

    Just because an aspect of the specific mechanic was changed so it works as intended doesn't mean that any of the aspects of this mechanic should be considered as working as intended. What Anet has changed is different to what I am talking about. This is why (for example) we see more than 1 buff / nerf on same skills.

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 1, 2018

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:
    Just because an aspect of the specific mechanic was changed so it works as intended doesn't mean that any of the aspects of this mechanic should be considered as working as intended.

    On that basis, we would conclude that nothing in the game is working as intended. ANet took time to adjust the mechanic and could easily have changed the part that concerns you. They chose not to. So at worst, we can say that they are not bothered by how it works now.

    If you want them to invest resources into this again, then it's up to you to explain why that's important. Instead of repeating that you find it overpowered, you need to show how it dominates all other options. And I hope it's clear that other people find that it isn't an obvious "best in slot" choice. So either you're seeing something that lots of other people have missed or you're missing something.

    I don't mean you should be convinced by the preponderance of other opinions. I only mean that if your goal is to convince ANet to do something, you have a high bar to reach.

    My point is that changing something in a mechanic doesn't mean that every aspect of that mechanic was looked after. In other words, this doesn't mean that anet has decided to do something or not. They may have just skipped the review of this aspect.
    I have clearly stated why, imo, this is not balanced and I have clearly shown to everyone how the info about the mechanic of this sigil is different than its actual ingame mechanic.
    Considering some of the topic participants are arguing with me that I am not right to stick with the info in the wiki, because it is either this info wrong or the sigil is not working as intended, it is most reasonable to have a dev replay.
    With that said, I don't have anything else to add, I have proven my point and expressed my opinion a few times and anything else you say is either opposite of what the wiki says or your personal opinion of how the sigil should work (which considering your position is, again, against what wiki says). We can continue to walk in a circle but there is no use for this. I believe the topic was "hot" enough for several hours to draw some attention - anything else is in the hands of the devs. If they have read my statement they will take a look at this case because everything I said is logical and deserves attention.
    Thank you all!

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • Gehenna.3625Gehenna.3625 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bOTEB.1573 said:
    If they have read my statement they will take a look at this case because everything I said is logical and deserves attention.

    Well, almost half of the posts in here are your own replies. I think you gave it all the attention it deserves yourself.

    "In my experience, if you can't say what you mean, you can never mean what you say. The details are everything." ~ Minister Durano

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Summarized all the info in my OP.
    No need to be salty, guys, =)
    Have fun!

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2, 2018

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:
    Currently, professions which can swap weapons can put the sigil in their secondary weapon set, build the 25 stacks and keep these stacks while playing with their primary weapon/s.
    This makes their primary weapons benefit from 3 sigil effects.
    How is this balanced and fair compared to professions which can't swap weapons, like the ele?

    It's not, but that doesn't really mean it can't or shouldn't happen. There are lots of 'unfair' things in the game and it's not really a reason to change it; the game isn't an exercise in being the most fair possible.

    Thank you for agreeing it is not balanced. And it does mean it shouldn't happen because it is not intended to happen like this.

    I agree it's not balanced ... I don' t agree that something should be done about it. The balance part is when you make a class choice as a player, not when Anet 'fixes' it. You have incorrectly concluded you can't do anything about it, but the power to not have it affect you as a player is already accessible to you. Just because you don't like those choices doesn't mean they aren't intended to be how you control how you interact with the game. Do not be presumptuous here; you don't not know the intentions of the devs. Do not assume that they ALREADY haven't considered the lack of a swap in the class design (I can assure you they have, otherwise they would not have made those non-swapping classes exceptions in the class mechanics in the first place).

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Hesacon.8735Hesacon.8735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Stacking sigils like bloodlust are useless in raids and many fractals. Almost no balance thought is given to open field.

  • Draco.9480Draco.9480 Member ✭✭✭

    you have to weapon swap all the time on most classes. BL isn't reliable in real scenario pve. people don't really use it. if you try to gain stacks wasting time on kitten weapon and then camp the better weapon yer overall dps will be so bad in both ways even with the 250 power boost cuz you don't do rotation right since right rotation involves weapon swapping except warrior that has to cc with m/m and maybe DE but still it's not practical. in theory it sounds op, in real scenario it's waste of time and lowers yer dps like this.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:
    That's not an exploit...

    And yes, having more weapon skills IS the trade off for that. Besides, this is such a minor issue because it's only relevant in PvE anyway.

    There is no trade off for that.
    **LOL @ minor issue and PVE only relevant. **
    Have you heard of the current ranger WvW, sniping around? Plus, I am playing WvW power shatter Mesmer and I shred everything with this!!!
    It is + 250 power if you can't do the math.

    Yeah, because to have them you are required to 1. not die and 2. kill 25 NPCs or 5 players first. Have fun doing that, it's a gimmick and there is no doubt about it being good when you can pull it off, but it's not a scenario you should expect 24/7. It's preparation. Doesn't matter if you have a few articial might stacks over your enemy if you get downed once.

    Smugly chuckling forever.
    My sentence doesn't make sense? Well, I probably forgot to write half of it before posting.

  • MithranArkanere.8957MithranArkanere.8957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2, 2018

    It gives indeed a great advantage, but it also has a great downside: As soon as you go down, there go all the stacks.

    And of course the stacks cannot be lost when swapping weapons. That would make the sigil simply useless.

    But if they changed stacking sigils to lose only 5 stacks when downed and 10 stacks when defeated, then they could make them limited to their corresponding weapon too.

    They could be made exclusive to their slotted weapons, for instance, by replacing the stack of the 'active' bronze-colored effect with the same stack size of an 'inactive' grayed effect while not equipped with a weapon that has the stacking sigil. With that change, the stacks would not be lost when swapping weapons, but they would not be in effect. If you want the stacked stat bonus in all your weapons, all of them would need to have the sigil.

    And if the stacks became inactive instead being lost while no weapon with the sigil is equipped there would be other nice side-effects. For example:

    • We could have no stacking sigils in any of the equipped underwater weapons and still not lose the stacks when going underwater, as the effects would be simply disabled while not equipped with a weapon that has the corresponding sigil.
    • We could temporarily equip all weapon set slots with weapons that do not have the sigil at all without losing any of the stacks, like when you need to equip ranged weapons weapon for a particular encounter. Then re-equip the weapon with the stacking sigil and have the stacks work again.
  • Lahmia.2193Lahmia.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Just a reminder that stacking sigils like bloodlust did use to have their stacks removed once you weapon swapped and it was skritt. So anet changed it so people would actually use them.

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death."

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If I gain endurance by swapping to a weapon with an appropriate sigil, and then swap back...do I lose the gained endurance?

    If I cleanse a condition by swapping to a weapon with an appropriate sigil, and then swapback...does the condition return?

    If I heal nearby allies by swapping to a weapon with an appropriate sigil, and then swap back...does the damage return?

    Or do many sigils provide benefits that are not removed by swapping to weapons with different sigils?

  • Vavume.8065Vavume.8065 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2, 2018

    @Hoon.1524 said:

    I don't think I've every seen a roamer or small scale players running Bloodlust stacks

    Should have gone to specsavers.

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2, 2018

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    Im sorry OP but in this case your opinion is wrong it happens to the best of us.

    According to your opinion, my opinion is wrong? OK.

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    I agree it's not balanced ... I don' t agree that something should be done about it.

    Ok, I supposed the devs should agree with you that unbalanced things shouldn't be touched, right?

    @Hesacon.8735 said:
    Stacking sigils like bloodlust are useless in raids and many fractals. Almost no balance thought is given to open field.

    Then why so many people cry about my suggestion to change it?

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:
    It gives indeed a great advantage, but it also has a great downside: As soon as you go down, there go all the stacks.

    And of course the stacks cannot be lost when swapping weapons. That would make the sigil simply useless.

    But if they changed stacking sigils to lose only 5 stacks when downed and 10 stacks when defeated, then they could make them limited to their corresponding weapon too.

    They could be made exclusive to their slotted weapons, for instance, by replacing the stack of the 'active' bronze-colored effect with the same stack size of an 'inactive' grayed effect while not equipped with a weapon that has the stacking sigil. With that change, the stacks would not be lost when swapping weapons, but they would not be in effect. If you want the stacked stat bonus in all your weapons, all of them would need to have the sigil.

    And if the stacks became inactive instead being lost while no weapon with the sigil is equipped there would be other nice side-effects. For example:

    • We could have no stacking sigils in any of the equipped underwater weapons and still not lose the stacks when going underwater, as the effects would be simply disabled while not equipped with a weapon that has the corresponding sigil.
    • We could temporarily equip all weapon set slots with weapons that do not have the sigil at all without losing any of the stacks, like when you need to equip ranged weapons weapon for a particular encounter. Then re-equip the weapon with the stacking sigil and have the stacks work again.

    At the point where the stacks cannot be lost when swapping weapons, I somehow agree with you, at some point. They MAY stay there but only should give power to the set where the sigil is - swapping to the other weapon = -250 power, swapping back to the 1st weapon = + 250 power, until you are downed or change the map.

    @Lahmia.2193 said:
    Just a reminder that stacking sigils like bloodlust did use to have their stacks removed once you weapon swapped and it was skritt. So anet changed it so people would actually use them.

    It is not completely right. You are referring to underwater weapons, where you can have 2 more sets, not to every weapon. So the case is different.

    @Ashen.2907 said:
    If I gain endurance by swapping to a weapon with an appropriate sigil, and then swap back...do I lose the gained endurance?

    If I cleanse a condition by swapping to a weapon with an appropriate sigil, and then swapback...does the condition return?

    If I heal nearby allies by swapping to a weapon with an appropriate sigil, and then swap back...does the damage return?

    Or do many sigils provide benefits that are not removed by swapping to weapons with different sigils?

    The functionality of the sigils that you are talking about suggests action on a swap, so it is different.
    With your logic, do you get the 5% bonus damage from the Superior Sigil of Force on both your weapon sets, when slotted into only 1, or bonus critical chance (7%)?
    Only the sigils in your current weapon set take effect - sigils in your second set only take effect when you switch to that set - it is well-known fact for 5 years and this specific functionality hasn't been changed. There is even an old Reddit post about them (just referring to how old this info is and that it hasn't changed):
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/10ilke/how_sigils_work/
    As I said before to MithranArkanere.8957, the stacks may stay there so when you switch back to the weapon set where the sigil is you should still benefit from this 250 power bonus.


    In the end, for a sigil that no one or barely anyone is using, this topic seems very HOT.
    To me, it seems a lot of people are actually using and now trying to oppose this suggestion.
    I will repeat it - open most wvw videos - mesmers, thiefs, necros, etc... everyone is using this sigil.

    Some videos (tried to find with more views and from the summer):

    Scourge (also take a look at how fast he builds stacks in a blob, for those saying its slow). You can even watch for the targets of the scourge - even they have this sigil LOL:

    Mirage:

    Thief:

    There are a lot more... But just get in WvW and see for yourself, in the game.

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • You also have to account for other advantages like the weapon swap effects when swapping attunements (like ele has 4). When I played my ele, I used this to my advantage quite heavily. This has a much larger and more profound effect and advantage than swapping weapons to keep stacks. The biggest difference being, you never lose your ability to swap attunements taking advantages of these effects; whereas the second your downed, you lose your stacks. People like me will down you from taking advantage of the attunement swapping effects from weapon swap sigils.

    To bring forward a topic means you also have to bring forward comparable instances. The way weapon swap sigils are treated in regards to attuments and kits are much more abusive than swapping weapons while keeping stacks. So if Anet decides they want to pull the trigger on something, they need to address swap sigils first.

  • @bOTEB.1573 said:
    Holly kitten, it is written right here:

    "Sigils have a variety of effects, such as attacks which trigger on critical hits, and attribute bonuses which increase as the player kills more enemies without being downed or switching to a weapon set that lacks the sigil."
    Source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Upgrade_component

    Anet, please FIX!!!

    P.S. kitten, I'm sooo good :)

    This sentence only says that the buff increases while wielding the weapon. So, if you're not wielding the slotted weapon, it won't increase further. But it says nowhere, that the buff should get lost on weapon swap.
    The wiki entry for the sigil states that the buff gets lost by the downed state and on a map change.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil_of_Bloodlust

    According to the wiki, it sounds like it works like intended.

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2018

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:
    You also have to account for other advantages like the weapon swap effects when swapping attunements (like ele has 4). When I played my ele, I used this to my advantage quite heavily. This has a much larger and more profound effect and advantage than swapping weapons to keep stacks. The biggest difference being, you never lose your ability to swap attunements taking advantages of these effects; whereas the second your downed, you lose your stacks. People like me will down you from taking advantage of the attunement swapping effects from weapon swap sigils.

    To bring forward a topic means you also have to bring forward comparable instances. The way weapon swap sigils are treated in regards to attuments and kits are much more abusive than swapping weapons while keeping stacks. So if Anet decides they want to pull the trigger on something, they need to address swap sigils first.

    The on swap sigils should have 9 sec internal CD. Even if you change your attunments 1 million times for 9 sec, you should still get this effect once. The CD is not 4 sec or less so ONLY ele can maximize the sigil potential but it is 9 so it can be balanced compared to professions which don't have attunments - in similar way we need to balance the bloodlust sigil. If you believe the swap sigils aren't working as intended or if you think they should be change, you are free to report a bug or suggestion.

    @kamykaze.5904 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:
    Holly kitten, it is written right here:

    "Sigils have a variety of effects, such as attacks which trigger on critical hits, and attribute bonuses which increase as the player kills more enemies without being downed or switching to a weapon set that lacks the sigil."
    Source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Upgrade_component

    Anet, please FIX!!!

    P.S. kitten, I'm sooo good :)

    This sentence only says that the buff increases while wielding the weapon. So, if you're not wielding the slotted weapon, it won't increase further. But it says nowhere, that the buff should get lost on weapon swap.
    The wiki entry for the sigil states that the buff gets lost by the downed state and on a map change.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil_of_Bloodlust

    According to the wiki, it sounds like it works like intended.

    You are reading the specific sigil of bloodlust page and all there is true. But you are completely ignoring the general mechanics of the sigils and upgradable component, which I have pointed several times in the thread and also you can find in my OP. As a sigil, the bloodlust one, should not be an exception and considering it gives an unbalanced advantage to professions which can have multiple sigils on their weapon sets, causing all weapon sets to benefit from such sigil type. I gave several times example with the sigil of force - it does not give its bonus to the other set and sigil of bloodlust shouldn't be an exception.

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:
    You also have to account for other advantages like the weapon swap effects when swapping attunements (like ele has 4). When I played my ele, I used this to my advantage quite heavily. This has a much larger and more profound effect and advantage than swapping weapons to keep stacks. The biggest difference being, you never lose your ability to swap attunements taking advantages of these effects; whereas the second your downed, you lose your stacks. People like me will down you from taking advantage of the attunement swapping effects from weapon swap sigils.

    To bring forward a topic means you also have to bring forward comparable instances. The way weapon swap sigils are treated in regards to attuments and kits are much more abusive than swapping weapons while keeping stacks. So if Anet decides they want to pull the trigger on something, they need to address swap sigils first.

    The on swap sigils should have 9 sec internal CD. Even if you change your attunments 1 million times for 9 sec, you should still get this effect once. The CD is not 4 sec or less so ONLY ele can maximize the sigil potential but it is 9 so it can be balanced compared to professions which don't have attunments - in similar way we need to balance the bloodlust sigil. If you believe the swap sigils aren't working as intended or if you think they should be change, you are free to report a bug or suggestion.

    @kamykaze.5904 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:
    Holly kitten, it is written right here:

    "Sigils have a variety of effects, such as attacks which trigger on critical hits, and attribute bonuses which increase as the player kills more enemies without being downed or switching to a weapon set that lacks the sigil."
    Source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Upgrade_component

    Anet, please FIX!!!

    P.S. kitten, I'm sooo good :)

    This sentence only says that the buff increases while wielding the weapon. So, if you're not wielding the slotted weapon, it won't increase further. But it says nowhere, that the buff should get lost on weapon swap.
    The wiki entry for the sigil states that the buff gets lost by the downed state and on a map change.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil_of_Bloodlust

    According to the wiki, it sounds like it works like intended.

    You are reading the specific sigil of bloodlust page and all there is true. But you are completely ignoring the general mechanics of the sigils and upgradable component, which I have pointed several times in the thread and also you can find in my OP. As a sigil, the bloodlust one, should not be an exception and considering it gives an unbalanced advantage to professions which can have multiple sigils on their weapon sets, causing all weapon sets to benefit from such sigil type. I gave several times example with the sigil of force - it does not give its bonus to the other set and sigil of bloodlust shouldn't be an exception. For the insntace (to complete my example):

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Force
    It is not written that it doesn't work on the other weapon set, but it obeys the general mechanics of the sigils.

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • There is no such thing as the "general mechanics of the sigils," as many sigils have different mechanics. For instance, if I equip a Sigil of Air and a Sigil of Earth, I can get the benefits of both, even though they are both "effect on crit" sigils. Bloodlust and Perception are both stat stacking sigils. If I equip both, I only get the benefits of one. If stacking sigils are different in one regard, they can be different in another.

    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- Santayana

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2018

    @IndigoSundown.5419 said:
    There is no such thing as the "general mechanics of the sigils," as many sigils have different mechanics. For instance, if I equip a Sigil of Air and a Sigil of Earth, I can get the benefits of both, even though they are both "effect on crit" sigils. Bloodlust and Perception are both stat stacking sigils. If I equip both, I only get the benefits of one. If stacking sigils are different in one regard, they can be different in another.

    Yes, the functionality of each sigil is different but you are mistaking this functionality and the 6 categories of the sigils with their overall common mechanic.
    Namely, taken from Upgrade component article:
    Sigils
    Primary article: Sigil
    Sigils can only be placed in weapons. Each one-hand weapon may have only one sigil. Two-handed weapons, as of the April 14 update, can have (2) separate sigils, but both must be different. (You cannot double or otherwise "improve" a sigil's benefit by another of the same type to the weapon(s) currently in use.) Sigils have a variety of effects, such as attacks which trigger on critical hits, and attribute bonuses which increase as the player kills more enemies without being downed or switching to a weapon set that lacks the sigil.
    Or, taken from Sigil article:
    The bonus is lost when you are downed, when you travel to a different zone, or when you unequip the weapon.
    +
    A sigil affects all skills while the weapon set with the sigil is active (in the general notes of the article).

    As you can see this info is about sigils. I do agree that different categories of sigils may add info to this. However, in the bloodlust sigil case, we don't have added info about it affecting weapons and their skills when it is not in that weapon set. For example, it is added about the sigils on swap: "These sigils activate whenever you weapon swap during combat to a set that includes the sigil; this includes changing elementalist attunements, legend swap, entering death shroud, equipping/stowing engineer kits, as well as Engage/Disengage Photon Forge, or dropping a bundle. There is an internal cooldown of nine seconds."

    The problem is not only that it is written like that and works differently. The real problem, as my OP suggests, is that it is not balanced the way it is at the moment and provides an unfair advantage to professions which do have a weapon swap mechanic. It is like making the sigil of cleansing with 3 sec cooldown - the ele will squeeze more from it, while some of the professions will use half or even less of its potential, are you ok with that?

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • LaGranse.8652LaGranse.8652 Member ✭✭✭

    @bOTEB.1573 said:
    Yes, the functionality of each sigil is different but you are mistaking this functionality and the 6 categories of the sigils with their overall common mechanic.
    Namely, taken from Upgrade component article:

    You have to realize that the GW2 wiki is not run by ArenaNet but by the fanbase. The descriptions of sigils you quote from the wiki is how the part of the community who has worked on said article has decided to describe them. In this case the functionality of sigils described on the wiki does not match the real functionality of said sigil.

    If you do not believe me go to the GW2 Wiki mainpage and read the first row of text which happen to also be written in a large font.

  • Gehenna.3625Gehenna.3625 Member ✭✭✭✭

    When talking about a weapon set it makes sense that the weapons you carry actively are your weapon set. So if you have a greatsword and longbow equipped, that's your weapon set. So switching between them is not changing weapon set.

    And think about it, it's part of the core system to swap weapons (except elementalist of course) and so these sigils only make sense if they can be used across weapon swapping. It takes what, 25 kills before the bonus is stacked up? So it's useless if you swap weapons regularly because you won't get the bonus very far in many cases. Also the point of weapon swapping includes the fact that you have some powerful skills with longer CDs but by swapping you have another set with more powerful skills available while the other weapon is on cooldown. So it would seem to me that weapon swapping also can increase DPS by having more powerful skills available more often. This effect is lost when you first have to do 25 kills in a zone to get the bonus stacked up and then stay on the other weapon to have the added effect of the bonus on the other weapon. There is a trade off in there. Not sure how big it is, but there is a trade off in that.

    I'm not saying it's all perfectly balanced but I am saying that it might not be as imbalanced as you suggest.

    "In my experience, if you can't say what you mean, you can never mean what you say. The details are everything." ~ Minister Durano

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