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Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged]


Lonami.2987

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@Sephylon.4938 said:

@DaFishBob.6518 said:I'm of the opinion that the raids should stay as they are for the most part, however there is a problem with getting people properly exposed to this content. Namely it takes way too long and too much preparation to even be considered for a raid. From what I understand, a new person to raids would have to pick up a meta build and then gear up that meta built class with full ascended and infusions and get the proper food and utilities for that build in order to be considered for a raiding group or at least get the greatest chance of being considered. Then after all that is done, they feel like they're just plain bad at raids if they fail and then never come back, even if there's a much easier raid wing available. They're already burned from all that preparation just to fail after all.

Not really, full exotics is fine for raids. You only go asc with infusions if you want to min-max it. Raids have been done in full greens too.

I understand it can be done with lesser gear but finding a group that would accept a newbie without the top gear is going to be tougher than with the gear. That's why I'm recommending a chance for a newbie to walk into a different instance with the same raid content difficulty and be allowed to borrow a proper gear and build set to see if they can understand the raid well enough before going on to look for a raid group or get the gear to become a better group member.

Not really, you can raid with exotics and noone would notice, IF people practise their rotation at the golem and fractals before. Rotation is so much more important than going to asc, so much that a full asc player can be outdpsed by someone in full green if the one in asc gear has never at least checked if the stuff he is doing is good, which you can only know by compare your dps with others, being on bosses or golem.

this screams we should just have a 3rd party program run rotations for us.. maybe add that to ArcDPS.

nah

Eh.. why not!

Why not just put a "Optimal DPS" button/setting in ArcDPS, and it sets you up with the Meta Abilities, and runs the rotations for you. Not like we all wouldn't use this anyway, and it would make it a heck of a lot easier on anyone that wants to just get things done.

Maybe also have a built in DPS meter for you that calculates your gear/stats to tell you what your optimal DPS output would be with what you have, and give you a list of what you need to acquire/replace.

Not like we are going to buck the norm, so may as well just make it easy to get it done and over with.

Or why play the game at all. Let's just put everything on autopathing.

Oh let's not get all melodramatic.

@DaFishBob.6518 said:I'm of the opinion that the raids should stay as they are for the most part, however there is a problem with getting people properly exposed to this content. Namely it takes way too long and too much preparation to even be considered for a raid. From what I understand, a new person to raids would have to pick up a meta build and then gear up that meta built class with full ascended and infusions and get the proper food and utilities for that build in order to be considered for a raiding group or at least get the greatest chance of being considered. Then after all that is done, they feel like they're just plain bad at raids if they fail and then never come back, even if there's a much easier raid wing available. They're already burned from all that preparation just to fail after all.

Not really, full exotics is fine for raids. You only go asc with infusions if you want to min-max it. Raids have been done in full greens too.

I understand it can be done with lesser gear but finding a group that would accept a newbie without the top gear is going to be tougher than with the gear. That's why I'm recommending a chance for a newbie to walk into a different instance with the same raid content difficulty and be allowed to borrow a proper gear and build set to see if they can understand the raid well enough before going on to look for a raid group or get the gear to become a better group member.

Not really, you can raid with exotics and noone would notice, IF people practise their rotation at the golem and fractals before. Rotation is so much more important than going to asc, so much that a full asc player can be outdpsed by someone in full green if the one in asc gear has never at least checked if the stuff he is doing is good, which you can only know by compare your dps with others, being on bosses or golem.

this screams we should just have a 3rd party program run rotations for us.. maybe add that to ArcDPS.

nah

Eh.. why not!

Why not just put a "Optimal DPS" button/setting in ArcDPS, and it sets you up with the Meta Abilities, and runs the rotations for you. Not like we all wouldn't use this anyway, and it would make it a heck of a lot easier on anyone that wants to just get things done.

Maybe also have a built in DPS meter for you that calculates your gear/stats to tell you what your optimal DPS output would be with what you have, and give you a list of what you need to acquire/replace.

Not like we are going to buck the norm, so may as well just make it easy to get it done and over with.

Mostly movement issues. Especially on ele, when the script says its time for you to do meteor, in the middle of gors retal or sab flame wall, you'd get screwed over. As for the later, that's what sc/qt/benchmark guilds are for

Yah.. but it could still be applied to thieves, warriors, and other basic DPS classes.

and golems are there for DPS meters, yet we have 3rd party software to help us.. this is the same thing.

Yeah but if we put it for 1, the others will cry for it as well

So.. what is the problem here again?

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@STIHL.2489 said:

@DaFishBob.6518 said:I'm of the opinion that the raids should stay as they are for the most part, however there is a problem with getting people properly exposed to this content. Namely it takes way too long and too much preparation to even be considered for a raid. From what I understand, a new person to raids would have to pick up a meta build and then gear up that meta built class with full ascended and infusions and get the proper food and utilities for that build in order to be considered for a raiding group or at least get the greatest chance of being considered. Then after all that is done, they feel like they're just plain bad at raids if they fail and then never come back, even if there's a much easier raid wing available. They're already burned from all that preparation just to fail after all.

Not really, full exotics is fine for raids. You only go asc with infusions if you want to min-max it. Raids have been done in full greens too.

I understand it can be done with lesser gear but finding a group that would accept a newbie without the top gear is going to be tougher than with the gear. That's why I'm recommending a chance for a newbie to walk into a different instance with the same raid content difficulty and be allowed to borrow a proper gear and build set to see if they can understand the raid well enough before going on to look for a raid group or get the gear to become a better group member.

Not really, you can raid with exotics and noone would notice, IF people practise their rotation at the golem and fractals before. Rotation is so much more important than going to asc, so much that a full asc player can be outdpsed by someone in full green if the one in asc gear has never at least checked if the stuff he is doing is good, which you can only know by compare your dps with others, being on bosses or golem.

this screams we should just have a 3rd party program run rotations for us.. maybe add that to ArcDPS.

nah

Eh.. why not!

Why not just put a "Optimal DPS" button/setting in ArcDPS, and it sets you up with the Meta Abilities, and runs the rotations for you. Not like we all wouldn't use this anyway, and it would make it a heck of a lot easier on anyone that wants to just get things done.

Maybe also have a built in DPS meter for you that calculates your gear/stats to tell you what your optimal DPS output would be with what you have, and give you a list of what you need to acquire/replace.

Not like we are going to buck the norm, so may as well just make it easy to get it done and over with.

Or why play the game at all. Let's just put everything on autopathing.

Oh let's not get all melodramatic.

@DaFishBob.6518 said:I'm of the opinion that the raids should stay as they are for the most part, however there is a problem with getting people properly exposed to this content. Namely it takes way too long and too much preparation to even be considered for a raid. From what I understand, a new person to raids would have to pick up a meta build and then gear up that meta built class with full ascended and infusions and get the proper food and utilities for that build in order to be considered for a raiding group or at least get the greatest chance of being considered. Then after all that is done, they feel like they're just plain bad at raids if they fail and then never come back, even if there's a much easier raid wing available. They're already burned from all that preparation just to fail after all.

Not really, full exotics is fine for raids. You only go asc with infusions if you want to min-max it. Raids have been done in full greens too.

I understand it can be done with lesser gear but finding a group that would accept a newbie without the top gear is going to be tougher than with the gear. That's why I'm recommending a chance for a newbie to walk into a different instance with the same raid content difficulty and be allowed to borrow a proper gear and build set to see if they can understand the raid well enough before going on to look for a raid group or get the gear to become a better group member.

Not really, you can raid with exotics and noone would notice, IF people practise their rotation at the golem and fractals before. Rotation is so much more important than going to asc, so much that a full asc player can be outdpsed by someone in full green if the one in asc gear has never at least checked if the stuff he is doing is good, which you can only know by compare your dps with others, being on bosses or golem.

this screams we should just have a 3rd party program run rotations for us.. maybe add that to ArcDPS.

nah

Eh.. why not!

Why not just put a "Optimal DPS" button/setting in ArcDPS, and it sets you up with the Meta Abilities, and runs the rotations for you. Not like we all wouldn't use this anyway, and it would make it a heck of a lot easier on anyone that wants to just get things done.

Maybe also have a built in DPS meter for you that calculates your gear/stats to tell you what your optimal DPS output would be with what you have, and give you a list of what you need to acquire/replace.

Not like we are going to buck the norm, so may as well just make it easy to get it done and over with.

Mostly movement issues. Especially on ele, when the script says its time for you to do meteor, in the middle of gors retal or sab flame wall, you'd get screwed over. As for the later, that's what sc/qt/benchmark guilds are for

Yah.. but it could still be applied to thieves, warriors, and other basic DPS classes.

and golems are there for DPS meters, yet we have 3rd party software to help us.. this is the same thing.

Yeah but if we put it for 1, the others will cry for it as well

So.. what is the problem here again?

people think pie>cake

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@DaFishBob.6518 said:

By the way, how often do you see training runs normally? Because if there are people who would regularly do training runs then I'll admit my ideas and concerns go out the window.

Congrats, join one of the many training run discords (NA and EU!) today to have your regular training run experience! Otherwise there are plenty of guilds if one would use reddit, discord or the lfg option in the game to actual search for one, aka open a lfg, saying you search for a trainings guild in the lfg message, and wait until one of the many guilds see the lfg (which simply can take a while, maybe try that on prime time?) and sends you a message.There are options, but people have to look closer than just 5 mins in the lfg and expecting there to be traingruns 24/7 and use the forum, lfg or reddit themself to search.

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@Sephylon.4938 said:

@DaFishBob.6518 said:I'm of the opinion that the raids should stay as they are for the most part, however there is a problem with getting people properly exposed to this content. Namely it takes way too long and too much preparation to even be considered for a raid. From what I understand, a new person to raids would have to pick up a meta build and then gear up that meta built class with full ascended and infusions and get the proper food and utilities for that build in order to be considered for a raiding group or at least get the greatest chance of being considered. Then after all that is done, they feel like they're just plain bad at raids if they fail and then never come back, even if there's a much easier raid wing available. They're already burned from all that preparation just to fail after all.

Not really, full exotics is fine for raids. You only go asc with infusions if you want to min-max it. Raids have been done in full greens too.

I understand it can be done with lesser gear but finding a group that would accept a newbie without the top gear is going to be tougher than with the gear. That's why I'm recommending a chance for a newbie to walk into a different instance with the same raid content difficulty and be allowed to borrow a proper gear and build set to see if they can understand the raid well enough before going on to look for a raid group or get the gear to become a better group member.

Not really, you can raid with exotics and noone would notice, IF people practise their rotation at the golem and fractals before. Rotation is so much more important than going to asc, so much that a full asc player can be outdpsed by someone in full green if the one in asc gear has never at least checked if the stuff he is doing is good, which you can only know by compare your dps with others, being on bosses or golem.

this screams we should just have a 3rd party program run rotations for us.. maybe add that to ArcDPS.

nah

Eh.. why not!

Why not just put a "Optimal DPS" button/setting in ArcDPS, and it sets you up with the Meta Abilities, and runs the rotations for you. Not like we all wouldn't use this anyway, and it would make it a heck of a lot easier on anyone that wants to just get things done.

Maybe also have a built in DPS meter for you that calculates your gear/stats to tell you what your optimal DPS output would be with what you have, and give you a list of what you need to acquire/replace.

Not like we are going to buck the norm, so may as well just make it easy to get it done and over with.

Or why play the game at all. Let's just put everything on autopathing.

Oh let's not get all melodramatic.

@DaFishBob.6518 said:I'm of the opinion that the raids should stay as they are for the most part, however there is a problem with getting people properly exposed to this content. Namely it takes way too long and too much preparation to even be considered for a raid. From what I understand, a new person to raids would have to pick up a meta build and then gear up that meta built class with full ascended and infusions and get the proper food and utilities for that build in order to be considered for a raiding group or at least get the greatest chance of being considered. Then after all that is done, they feel like they're just plain bad at raids if they fail and then never come back, even if there's a much easier raid wing available. They're already burned from all that preparation just to fail after all.

Not really, full exotics is fine for raids. You only go asc with infusions if you want to min-max it. Raids have been done in full greens too.

I understand it can be done with lesser gear but finding a group that would accept a newbie without the top gear is going to be tougher than with the gear. That's why I'm recommending a chance for a newbie to walk into a different instance with the same raid content difficulty and be allowed to borrow a proper gear and build set to see if they can understand the raid well enough before going on to look for a raid group or get the gear to become a better group member.

Not really, you can raid with exotics and noone would notice, IF people practise their rotation at the golem and fractals before. Rotation is so much more important than going to asc, so much that a full asc player can be outdpsed by someone in full green if the one in asc gear has never at least checked if the stuff he is doing is good, which you can only know by compare your dps with others, being on bosses or golem.

this screams we should just have a 3rd party program run rotations for us.. maybe add that to ArcDPS.

nah

Eh.. why not!

Why not just put a "Optimal DPS" button/setting in ArcDPS, and it sets you up with the Meta Abilities, and runs the rotations for you. Not like we all wouldn't use this anyway, and it would make it a heck of a lot easier on anyone that wants to just get things done.

Maybe also have a built in DPS meter for you that calculates your gear/stats to tell you what your optimal DPS output would be with what you have, and give you a list of what you need to acquire/replace.

Not like we are going to buck the norm, so may as well just make it easy to get it done and over with.

Mostly movement issues. Especially on ele, when the script says its time for you to do meteor, in the middle of gors retal or sab flame wall, you'd get screwed over. As for the later, that's what sc/qt/benchmark guilds are for

Yah.. but it could still be applied to thieves, warriors, and other basic DPS classes.

and golems are there for DPS meters, yet we have 3rd party software to help us.. this is the same thing.

Yeah but if we put it for 1, the others will cry for it as well

So.. what is the problem here again?

people think pie>cake

Sounds like a Culinary problem..

anyway this would be good for everyone. just have ArcDPS have the rotations programmed in and maybe even a button that allows players to auto sequence them.. would be great!

Your objections are unfounded.

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But why stop there... How about autowalk, autoevent, autoworldcompletion, autodailies, autoistanfarm, autoTP, autoWvW, autoPvP? The lenghts people would be willing to go through to be able to complete content without actually having to play said content never seizes to amaze me.

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@"Alchimist.4738" said:I honestly wouldn't mind an easy mode for raids, it would allow more player to get into them, which in the long run would be beneficial for both the raid community but also ArenaNet, as this content would be more profitable.

However they really need to balance the rewards properly between each difficulty mode. Easy mode should give a different kind of killing proof than hard and normal modes, alongside a piece of legendary insight, and once you get four pieces you can create one legendary insight, obviously a reduced drop rate to the unique loot and less raid currency.

Furthermore easy mode should really be a tutorial for raids, the core mechanics for both the game (dodge, combo fields, boons ...) and the boss (green, special action key ...) should be emphasized, for instance with voice acting a character could say "four of you go into the green area" during Vale Guardian, and then normal mode and hard mode would either expand on those mechanics, making them more punishing, or adding new ones.

Moreover if we get an easy mode it should be accompanied by a hard mode, which means repeatable CMs and CMs for W1 to W3.

If we get that I think the raid community could really grow, as everyone would be pleased.

Edit: Just noticed my vote was the wrong one, it is "We need both easy and hard modes".

I wouldn’t mind an easy mode either, however the reality is the devs are having a hard enough time getting a single raid encounter out in a single year. Let’s maybe waiting until there is maybe 10 raid wings in oh I don’t know 2025, before we can honestly discuss an easy mode.

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@Lucius.2140 said:

@Sykper.6583 said:There is nothing that's been said here that hasn't already been brought up and discussed dozens of times.

Let's just go with a quote from the Raid Dev on the current status:

@"Crystal Reid.2481" said:New forum, so I'll jump in with a new post on this.

We won't be adding a different difficulty tier at this time. Raids need to continue to remain the most challenging content in the game, and they aren't designed to be accessible by everyone from a skill perspective. Could they be more accessible from a "finding 9 other players to play with" side? Sure. That isn't always an easy problem to solve, and any solution would detract away from the team making more raid content. We'd love to get more content out to you guys faster really.

Their priorities are keeping raids the most challenging content in game, and wanting to deliver the content to us faster than it took this one.

That's literally all.

I want a 5 man mode, even if they could not be called raids. My gripe about raids its that getting a group of 9 takes time and i dont have that much free time, specially if you are going with friends. Plus its more difficult to carry people if your guild have only 3-5 players that play good and not all are connected.

Im sure im not alone in the time and size problem.

The 5-man mode is called "Fractals of the Mists". There are the dungeons as well, but they are no longer developed/supported.

Not the same content, neither the same level of difficulty. I wish that content its playable in a 5 group mode and i dont think im the only one.

And I wish someone gifted me a 458 Italia.

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@Feanor.2358 said:

@Sykper.6583 said:There is nothing that's been said here that hasn't already been brought up and discussed dozens of times.

Let's just go with a quote from the Raid Dev on the current status:

@"Crystal Reid.2481" said:New forum, so I'll jump in with a new post on this.

We won't be adding a different difficulty tier at this time. Raids need to continue to remain the most challenging content in the game, and they aren't designed to be accessible by everyone from a skill perspective. Could they be more accessible from a "finding 9 other players to play with" side? Sure. That isn't always an easy problem to solve, and any solution would detract away from the team making more raid content. We'd love to get more content out to you guys faster really.

Their priorities are keeping raids the most challenging content in game, and wanting to deliver the content to us faster than it took this one.

That's literally all.

I want a 5 man mode, even if they could not be called raids. My gripe about raids its that getting a group of 9 takes time and i dont have that much free time, specially if you are going with friends. Plus its more difficult to carry people if your guild have only 3-5 players that play good and not all are connected.

Im sure im not alone in the time and size problem.

The 5-man mode is called "Fractals of the Mists". There are the dungeons as well, but they are no longer developed/supported.

Not the same content, neither the same level of difficulty. I wish that content its playable in a 5 group mode and i dont think im the only one.

And I wish someone gifted me a 458 Italia.

I wish you could argue properly, thank you in advance...

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@Lucius.2140 said:

@Sykper.6583 said:There is nothing that's been said here that hasn't already been brought up and discussed dozens of times.

Let's just go with a quote from the Raid Dev on the current status:

@"Crystal Reid.2481" said:New forum, so I'll jump in with a new post on this.

We won't be adding a different difficulty tier at this time. Raids need to continue to remain the most challenging content in the game, and they aren't designed to be accessible by everyone from a skill perspective. Could they be more accessible from a "finding 9 other players to play with" side? Sure. That isn't always an easy problem to solve, and any solution would detract away from the team making more raid content. We'd love to get more content out to you guys faster really.

Their priorities are keeping raids the most challenging content in game, and wanting to deliver the content to us faster than it took this one.

That's literally all.

I want a 5 man mode, even if they could not be called raids. My gripe about raids its that getting a group of 9 takes time and i dont have that much free time, specially if you are going with friends. Plus its more difficult to carry people if your guild have only 3-5 players that play good and not all are connected.

Im sure im not alone in the time and size problem.

The 5-man mode is called "Fractals of the Mists". There are the dungeons as well, but they are no longer developed/supported.

Not the same content, neither the same level of difficulty. I wish that content its playable in a 5 group mode and i dont think im the only one.

And I wish someone gifted me a 458 Italia.

I wish you could argue properly, thank you in advance...

Then read the thread. I've argued properly, time and again.

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@STIHL.2489 said:

@Henry.5713 said:But why stop there... How about autowalk, autoevent, autoworldcompletion, autodailies, autoistanfarm, autoTP, autoWvW, autoPvP? The lenghts people would be willing to go through to be able to complete content without actually having to play said content never seizes to amaze me.

Yah.. it'as almost as stupid as the DPS meters, kill proofs, using discord and all the other things people do to ensure the content is easy.. oh wait.

No really your objection to making things easier is silly at this point.

Might be rather shocking to you but many of us actually enjoy using voice communication and DPS meters with all of the data and additional information they provide through websites like dps.report. The fact that you put voice communication software and statistics/analytics tools on the same level as autoplay features is pretty laughable.

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@Henry.5713 said:

@Henry.5713 said:But why stop there... How about autowalk, autoevent, autoworldcompletion, autodailies, autoistanfarm, autoTP, autoWvW, autoPvP? The lenghts people would be willing to go through to be able to complete content without actually having to play said content never seizes to amaze me.

Yah.. it'as almost as stupid as the DPS meters, kill proofs, using discord and all the other things people do to ensure the content is easy.. oh wait.

No really your objection to making things easier is silly at this point.

Might be rather shocking to you but many of us actually enjoy using voice communication and DPS meters with all of the data and additional information they provide through websites like dps.report. The fact that you put voice communication software and statistics/analytics tools on the same level as autoplay features is pretty laughable.

Oh spare me..

The objections to giving people the tools to better their game play is deplorable and stupid.

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@STIHL.2489 said:

@Henry.5713 said:But why stop there... How about autowalk, autoevent, autoworldcompletion, autodailies, autoistanfarm, autoTP, autoWvW, autoPvP? The lenghts people would be willing to go through to be able to complete content without actually having to play said content never seizes to amaze me.

Yah.. it'as almost as stupid as the DPS meters, kill proofs, using discord and all the other things people do to ensure the content is easy.. oh wait.

No really your objection to making things easier is silly at this point.

Might be rather shocking to you but many of us actually enjoy using voice communication and DPS meters with all of the data and additional information they provide through websites like dps.report. The fact that you put voice communication software and statistics/analytics tools on the same level as autoplay features is pretty laughable.

Oh spare me..

The objections to giving people the tools to better their game play is deplorable and stupid.

Better the game play not remove the gameplay.

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@STIHL.2489 said:

@Henry.5713 said:But why stop there... How about autowalk, autoevent, autoworldcompletion, autodailies, autoistanfarm, autoTP, autoWvW, autoPvP? The lenghts people would be willing to go through to be able to complete content without actually having to play said content never seizes to amaze me.

Yah.. it'as almost as stupid as the DPS meters, kill proofs, using discord and all the other things people do to ensure the content is easy.. oh wait.

No really your objection to making things easier is silly at this point.

Might be rather shocking to you but many of us actually enjoy using voice communication and DPS meters with all of the data and additional information they provide through websites like dps.report. The fact that you put voice communication software and statistics/analytics tools on the same level as autoplay features is pretty laughable.

Oh spare me..

The objections to giving people the tools to better their game play is deplorable and stupid.

Logical fallacy.

Having a script take over a majority of a players actions does not improve their skill, which would be their input.

It improves their output in the game by taking over and reducing difficulty by simplifying the required inputs. Simplifying is not synonymous with improving.

Actually improving a persons skill would require to improve their input.

Now one can debate if gameplay should be measured in result or player skill, but in one of both cases the actual player learns and/or improves nothing (when reducing the difficulty).

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I voted for all modes, Easy, Normal, Hard. I like the idea of having an easy mode because it would be so much more easier to hold a training raid to teach people how to get to Normal mode. If you're teaching a training raid and keep wiping every minute because of a missed mechanic it makes it harder to show people the rest of the mechanics.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Henry.5713 said:But why stop there... How about autowalk, autoevent, autoworldcompletion, autodailies, autoistanfarm, autoTP, autoWvW, autoPvP? The lenghts people would be willing to go through to be able to complete content without actually having to play said content never seizes to amaze me.

Yah.. it'as almost as stupid as the DPS meters, kill proofs, using discord and all the other things people do to ensure the content is easy.. oh wait.

No really your objection to making things easier is silly at this point.

Might be rather shocking to you but many of us actually enjoy using voice communication and DPS meters with all of the data and additional information they provide through websites like dps.report. The fact that you put voice communication software and statistics/analytics tools on the same level as autoplay features is pretty laughable.

Oh spare me..

The objections to giving people the tools to better their game play is deplorable and stupid.

Logical fallacy.

Having a script take over a majority of a players actions does not improve their skill, which would be their input.

It improves their output in the game by taking over and reducing difficulty by simplifying the required inputs. Simplifying is not synonymous with improving.

Actually improving a persons skill would require to improve their input.

Now one can debate if gameplay should be measured in result or player skill, but in one of both cases the actual player learns and/or improves nothing (when reducing the difficulty).

You are confusing skill with a game. Sorry, this is a game, not a job, not some life skill, it's pressing a few buttons, on cue. If I can have a program take some tedium of button masking from me, what is it to you?

if you don't like you don't have to use it.. but to deny others this feature is beyond pitiful and spiteful.

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@STIHL.2489 said:

@Henry.5713 said:But why stop there... How about autowalk, autoevent, autoworldcompletion, autodailies, autoistanfarm, autoTP, autoWvW, autoPvP? The lenghts people would be willing to go through to be able to complete content without actually having to play said content never seizes to amaze me.

Yah.. it'as almost as stupid as the DPS meters, kill proofs, using discord and all the other things people do to ensure the content is easy.. oh wait.

No really your objection to making things easier is silly at this point.

Might be rather shocking to you but many of us actually enjoy using voice communication and DPS meters with all of the data and additional information they provide through websites like dps.report. The fact that you put voice communication software and statistics/analytics tools on the same level as autoplay features is pretty laughable.

Oh spare me..

The objections to giving people the tools to better their game play is deplorable and stupid.

Logical fallacy.

Having a script take over a majority of a players actions does not improve their skill, which would be their input.

It improves their output in the game by taking over and reducing difficulty by simplifying the required inputs. Simplifying is not synonymous with improving.

Actually improving a persons skill would require to improve their input.

Now one can debate if gameplay should be measured in result or player skill, but in one of both cases the actual player learns and/or improves nothing (when reducing the difficulty).

You are confusing skill with a game. Sorry, this is a game, not a job, not some life skill, it's pressing a few buttons, on cue. If I can have a program take some tedium of button masking from me, what is it to you?

if you don't like you don't have to use it.. but to deny others this feature is beyond pitiful and spiteful.

Why not watch someone else do it on youtube then you dont have to press anything at all.

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@Linken.6345 said:

@Henry.5713 said:But why stop there... How about autowalk, autoevent, autoworldcompletion, autodailies, autoistanfarm, autoTP, autoWvW, autoPvP? The lenghts people would be willing to go through to be able to complete content without actually having to play said content never seizes to amaze me.

Yah.. it'as almost as stupid as the DPS meters, kill proofs, using discord and all the other things people do to ensure the content is easy.. oh wait.

No really your objection to making things easier is silly at this point.

Might be rather shocking to you but many of us actually enjoy using voice communication and DPS meters with all of the data and additional information they provide through websites like dps.report. The fact that you put voice communication software and statistics/analytics tools on the same level as autoplay features is pretty laughable.

Oh spare me..

The objections to giving people the tools to better their game play is deplorable and stupid.

Logical fallacy.

Having a script take over a majority of a players actions does not improve their skill, which would be their input.

It improves their output in the game by taking over and reducing difficulty by simplifying the required inputs. Simplifying is not synonymous with improving.

Actually improving a persons skill would require to improve their input.

Now one can debate if gameplay should be measured in result or player skill, but in one of both cases the actual player learns and/or improves nothing (when reducing the difficulty).

You are confusing skill with a game. Sorry, this is a game, not a job, not some life skill, it's pressing a few buttons, on cue. If I can have a program take some tedium of button masking from me, what is it to you?

if you don't like you don't have to use it.. but to deny others this feature is beyond pitiful and spiteful.

Why not watch someone else do it on youtube then you dont have to press anything at all.

Loot.. Duh. Why else do we even play this game.

I mean come off it, this is a PvE MMO, scripted encounters, where the whole fucking goal is make it easier, this is not some MOBA where skill matters.

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@STIHL.2489 said:

@Henry.5713 said:But why stop there... How about autowalk, autoevent, autoworldcompletion, autodailies, autoistanfarm, autoTP, autoWvW, autoPvP? The lenghts people would be willing to go through to be able to complete content without actually having to play said content never seizes to amaze me.

Yah.. it'as almost as stupid as the DPS meters, kill proofs, using discord and all the other things people do to ensure the content is easy.. oh wait.

No really your objection to making things easier is silly at this point.

Might be rather shocking to you but many of us actually enjoy using voice communication and DPS meters with all of the data and additional information they provide through websites like dps.report. The fact that you put voice communication software and statistics/analytics tools on the same level as autoplay features is pretty laughable.

Oh spare me..

The objections to giving people the tools to better their game play is deplorable and stupid.

Logical fallacy.

Having a script take over a majority of a players actions does not improve their skill, which would be their input.

It improves their output in the game by taking over and reducing difficulty by simplifying the required inputs. Simplifying is not synonymous with improving.

Actually improving a persons skill would require to improve their input.

Now one can debate if gameplay should be measured in result or player skill, but in one of both cases the actual player learns and/or improves nothing (when reducing the difficulty).

You are confusing skill with a game. Sorry, this is a game, not a job, not some life skill, it's pressing a few buttons, on cue. If I can have a program take some tedium of button masking from me, what is it to you?

if you don't like you don't have to use it.. but to deny others this feature is beyond pitiful and spiteful.

It' nothing to me. I was pointing out the flaw in your logic and argument.

If you openly stated that all you want is the loot or satisfaction of completing content without actually interacting with the game, that's fine by me.

You bring up a valid point, why do we interact or play a game.

The next question following that would be how are different games made and which players are they made for.

There is autoclicker rpg games where your Interaction with the game is close to 0. There is life emulating games like the Sims. All of those require less skill and a different Set of qualities.

What you have not so far explained is how this relates to a MMO and more specifically GW2 with it's wide range of difficulty content wise.

Why develope difficult and challenging content only to make it meaningless via outside scripts? That makes no sense from a developer standpoint, not to mention cost and ressource wise. There is sufficient content (actually the vast majority) which is easy enough you don't even need the Script approach.

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@STIHL.2489 said:

@Henry.5713 said:But why stop there... How about autowalk, autoevent, autoworldcompletion, autodailies, autoistanfarm, autoTP, autoWvW, autoPvP? The lenghts people would be willing to go through to be able to complete content without actually having to play said content never seizes to amaze me.

Yah.. it'as almost as stupid as the DPS meters, kill proofs, using discord and all the other things people do to ensure the content is easy.. oh wait.

No really your objection to making things easier is silly at this point.

Might be rather shocking to you but many of us actually enjoy using voice communication and DPS meters with all of the data and additional information they provide through websites like dps.report. The fact that you put voice communication software and statistics/analytics tools on the same level as autoplay features is pretty laughable.

Oh spare me..

The objections to giving people the tools to better their game play is deplorable and stupid.

Logical fallacy.

Having a script take over a majority of a players actions does not improve their skill, which would be their input.

It improves their output in the game by taking over and reducing difficulty by simplifying the required inputs. Simplifying is not synonymous with improving.

Actually improving a persons skill would require to improve their input.

Now one can debate if gameplay should be measured in result or player skill, but in one of both cases the actual player learns and/or improves nothing (when reducing the difficulty).

You are confusing skill with a game. Sorry, this is a game, not a job, not some life skill, it's pressing a few buttons, on cue. If I can have a program take some tedium of button masking from me, what is it to you?

if you don't like you don't have to use it.. but to deny others this feature is beyond pitiful and spiteful.

Why not watch someone else do it on youtube then you dont have to press anything at all.

Loot.. Duh. Why else do we even play this game.

I mean come off it, this is a PvE MMO, scripted encounters, where the whole kitten goal is make it easier, this is not some MOBA where skill matters.

Out of curiosity, and off topic, did you get that wvw leggy armor, Stihl?

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If you don't want to play the content and let a program "play" it for you, then just watch a youtube video with the content. This whole argument is pointless, plus it's off topic as using a program to execute rotations has little to do with an easy mode. Funnily I'm having deja vu about this as I'm sure this off topic discussion happened earlier in the thread.

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@STIHL.2489 said:

@Henry.5713 said:But why stop there... How about autowalk, autoevent, autoworldcompletion, autodailies, autoistanfarm, autoTP, autoWvW, autoPvP? The lenghts people would be willing to go through to be able to complete content without actually having to play said content never seizes to amaze me.

Yah.. it'as almost as stupid as the DPS meters, kill proofs, using discord and all the other things people do to ensure the content is easy.. oh wait.

No really your objection to making things easier is silly at this point.

Might be rather shocking to you but many of us actually enjoy using voice communication and DPS meters with all of the data and additional information they provide through websites like dps.report. The fact that you put voice communication software and statistics/analytics tools on the same level as autoplay features is pretty laughable.

Oh spare me..

The objections to giving people the tools to better their game play is deplorable and stupid.

Logical fallacy.

Having a script take over a majority of a players actions does not improve their skill, which would be their input.

It improves their output in the game by taking over and reducing difficulty by simplifying the required inputs. Simplifying is not synonymous with improving.

Actually improving a persons skill would require to improve their input.

Now one can debate if gameplay should be measured in result or player skill, but in one of both cases the actual player learns and/or improves nothing (when reducing the difficulty).

You are confusing skill with a game. Sorry, this is a game, not a job, not some life skill, it's pressing a few buttons, on cue. If I can have a program take some tedium of button masking from me, what is it to you?

if you don't like you don't have to use it.. but to deny others this feature is beyond pitiful and spiteful.

Why not watch someone else do it on youtube then you dont have to press anything at all.

Loot.. Duh. Why else do we even play this game.

For fun, actually. Bit sequences encoding virtual goodies serve no purpose by themselves. I can code these myself. But strangely, simply granting them to myself isn't much fun. It's only fun when I get them as a reward for my effort.

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@STIHL.2489 said:

@Henry.5713 said:But why stop there... How about autowalk, autoevent, autoworldcompletion, autodailies, autoistanfarm, autoTP, autoWvW, autoPvP? The lenghts people would be willing to go through to be able to complete content without actually having to play said content never seizes to amaze me.

Yah.. it'as almost as stupid as the DPS meters, kill proofs, using discord and all the other things people do to ensure the content is easy.. oh wait.

No really your objection to making things easier is silly at this point.

Might be rather shocking to you but many of us actually enjoy using voice communication and DPS meters with all of the data and additional information they provide through websites like dps.report. The fact that you put voice communication software and statistics/analytics tools on the same level as autoplay features is pretty laughable.

Oh spare me..

The objections to giving people the tools to better their game play is deplorable and stupid.

Logical fallacy.

Having a script take over a majority of a players actions does not improve their skill, which would be their input.

It improves their output in the game by taking over and reducing difficulty by simplifying the required inputs. Simplifying is not synonymous with improving.

Actually improving a persons skill would require to improve their input.

Now one can debate if gameplay should be measured in result or player skill, but in one of both cases the actual player learns and/or improves nothing (when reducing the difficulty).

You are confusing skill with a game. Sorry, this is a game, not a job, not some life skill, it's pressing a few buttons, on cue. If I can have a program take some tedium of button masking from me, what is it to you?

if you don't like you don't have to use it.. but to deny others this feature is beyond pitiful and spiteful.

Why not watch someone else do it on youtube then you dont have to press anything at all.

Loot.. Duh. Why else do we even play this game.

For fun, actually. Bit sequences encoding virtual goodies serve no purpose by themselves. I can code these myself. But strangely, simply granting them to myself isn't much fun. It's only fun when I get them as a reward for my effort.

Like Hell people play for Fun.. if they removed the loot from raids they would die overnight like dungeons, spare me any stupid remarks like they wouldn't or how you are the one special case or some other such nonsense.

Like hell I'd play something if it weren't fun for me. Like Cyninja said, reward gratification is part of it, but not the only one. Istan is better loot than raids and so was ML Tarir. I go there from time to time, stay for 30-60 mins and leave it for weeks. While raids I clear every week, sometimes more than once. Must be for the epic loot from killing a boss a second time, right?

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