Mythwright Gambit Raid

[DBZVelena.5186]

if the place isn't filled with empty elonian wine bottles, i'm gonna be disappointed.

[Head Kracker.4790]

@DBZVelena.5186 said:if the place isn't filled with empty elonian wine bottles, i'm gonna be disappointed.

if you know anything about wine you know that will be in raid wing 2 when we go down to his cellar for the GOOD stuff

[Malediktus.9250]

Not sure if I like the theme of this raid, seems like it is lacking any serious backgrounds

[Linken.6345]

@Malediktus.9250 said:Not sure if I like the theme of this raid, seems like it is lacking any serious backgrounds

We'r inside the mystic forge I think the devs can go nuts with the backgrounds =)

[Lahmia.2193]

@Malediktus.9250 said:Not sure if I like the theme of this raid, seems like it is lacking any serious backgrounds

It's nice that they don't have to pluck nostalgia strings for it. I mean every raid up until now has been gw1 related. They should really cut the umbilical cord and make them purely gw2 related.

[Malediktus.9250]

@Linken.6345 said:

@"Malediktus.9250" said:Not sure if I like the theme of this raid, seems like it is lacking any serious backgrounds

We'r inside the mystic forge I think the devs can go nuts with the backgrounds =)

From the trailer I got more of a "this is a just for fun event" vibe without any impact on the game lore

[mindcircus.1506]

@Randulf.7614 said:An odd choice for a raid subject at this point. Thought they might try and tie in with PoF/LS4 themes

You know where the lair of Zomorros is, right?

[maxwelgm.4315]

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:Not sure if I like the theme of this raid, seems like it is lacking any serious backgrounds

We'r inside the mystic forge I think the devs can go nuts with the backgrounds =)

From the trailer I got more of a "this is a just for fun event" vibe without any impact on the game lore

Finally they did this, since our PC is actually not part of raids but rather "elite mercenaries". Also a chance to establish gw2-only lore backgrounds (after so many years) without nodding to gw1 all the time. Last but most important, raids don't have to be this grimdark planescape scenario just because WoW did that; GW2 has set itself aside in gameplay and the same should go for design. Dhuum was a great boss but had a very meh WoW-ish lich king edgelord vibe going, but Zommoros? Can be a really good mix of satirical yet sadistic encounters, definitely not "just for fun" but also not edgy.

[Malediktus.9250]

@maxwelgm.4315 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:Not sure if I like the theme of this raid, seems like it is lacking any serious backgrounds

We'r inside the mystic forge I think the devs can go nuts with the backgrounds =)

From the trailer I got more of a "this is a just for fun event" vibe without any impact on the game lore

Finally they did this, since our PC is actually not part of raids but rather "elite mercenaries". Also a chance to establish gw2-only lore backgrounds (after so many years) without nodding to gw1 all the time. Last but most important, raids don't have to be this grimdark planescape scenario just because WoW did that; GW2 has set itself aside in gameplay and the same should go for design. Dhuum was a great boss but had a very meh WoW-ish lich king edgelord vibe going, but Zommoros? Can be a really good mix of satirical yet sadistic encounters, definitely not "just for fun" but also not edgy.

I would prefer fighting some real threats of Tyria instead of playing in a glorified circus. But maybe Anet can suprise me. Balthasar should have been a raid boss, too.

[yann.1946]

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@maxwelgm.4315 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:Not sure if I like the theme of this raid, seems like it is lacking any serious backgrounds

We'r inside the mystic forge I think the devs can go nuts with the backgrounds =)

From the trailer I got more of a "this is a just for fun event" vibe without any impact on the game lore

Finally they did this, since our PC is actually not part of raids but rather "elite mercenaries". Also a chance to establish gw2-only lore backgrounds (after so many years) without nodding to gw1 all the time. Last but most important, raids don't have to be this grimdark planescape scenario just because WoW did that; GW2 has set itself aside in gameplay and the same should go for design. Dhuum was a great boss but had a very meh WoW-ish lich king edgelord vibe going, but Zommoros? Can be a really good mix of satirical yet sadistic encounters, definitely not "just for fun" but also not edgy.

I would prefer fighting some real threats of Tyria instead of playing in a glorified circus. But maybe Anet can suprise me. Balthasar should have been a raid boss, too.

Having Balthazar a raid boss would piss to many people off imo.

I personally don't think that it is a bad idea to have some variety in theme. Variety is the spice of life after all

[maddoctor.2738]

@"Malediktus.9250" said:I would prefer fighting some real threats of Tyria instead of playing in a glorified circus. But maybe Anet can suprise me. Balthasar should have been a raid boss, too.

That wouldn't be a very good idea given how Balthazar was fought by the commander. In Raids they "fix" the commander problem because no NPC, ally or enemy is calling us Commander in there. Instead we are a group of 10 random adventurers. Balthazar is integrated to the story and was beaten by the Commander with the help of Aurene, not by a random adventuring group. Not to mention the obvious problems with not everyone liking Raids and so on, but Story is also an important limiting factor in making these final bosses Raids.

[Tyson.5160]

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@maxwelgm.4315 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:Not sure if I like the theme of this raid, seems like it is lacking any serious backgrounds

We'r inside the mystic forge I think the devs can go nuts with the backgrounds =)

From the trailer I got more of a "this is a just for fun event" vibe without any impact on the game lore

Finally they did this, since our PC is actually not part of raids but rather "elite mercenaries". Also a chance to establish gw2-only lore backgrounds (after so many years) without nodding to gw1 all the time. Last but most important, raids don't have to be this grimdark planescape scenario just because WoW did that; GW2 has set itself aside in gameplay and the same should go for design. Dhuum was a great boss but had a very meh WoW-ish lich king edgelord vibe going, but Zommoros? Can be a really good mix of satirical yet sadistic encounters, definitely not "just for fun" but also not edgy.

I would prefer fighting some real threats of Tyria instead of playing in a glorified circus. But maybe Anet can suprise me. Balthasar should have been a raid boss, too.

I think Yann said it best. Variety. It kinda gets Lame if the raids keep rehashing real threats, or condemned gods or blah blah some catastrophe. Zommoros is a breath of fresh air and shakes things up.

[Zaraki.5784]

I just hope it won't have a boss fight like Dhuum with a clucky mechanic like greens.

[maxwelgm.4315]

@Zaraki.5784 said:I just hope it won't have a boss fight like Dhuum with a clucky mechanic like greens.

I believe somewhere down the road post-w5 release they admitted they weren't sure that the greens mechanic could be properly handled client-side. Hopefully they learned not to implement things they are unsure of. But after so many patches to be honest, I find greens to be pretty much OK to do, albeit badly designed (i.e clumsy). I see a lot of people dying to them when I try to pug Dhuum but always volunteer so at least 1 never misses.

It would also be interesting if they could introduce the use of PoF masteries to PoF raids like they did with HoT raids, such as requiring updrafts and later on requiring leyline gliding. That would mean having mechanics where particular players would need to mount up to perform them, and could add a lot of variety to the very same fetch mechanic that we had at KC, Dhuum, statues, and some other encounters (having a special action key that mounts you automatically would solve being in combat issue). In the ideal case they could even come up with unique mounts to use in raids but that would not only be a lot of design effort but also kitten off most of the playerbase, so they could (but also should) stick to base game mounts.

[Warscythes.9307]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Malediktus.9250" said:I would prefer fighting some real threats of Tyria instead of playing in a glorified circus. But maybe Anet can suprise me. Balthasar should have been a raid boss, too.

That wouldn't be a very good idea given how Balthazar was fought by the commander. In Raids they "fix" the commander problem because no NPC, ally or enemy is calling us Commander in there. Instead we are a group of 10 random adventurers. Balthazar is integrated to the story and was beaten by the Commander with the help of Aurene, not by a random adventuring group. Not to mention the obvious problems with not everyone liking Raids and so on, but Story is also an important limiting factor in making these final bosses Raids.

Just bit of a side note but while I agree on your points on the importance of story, there are ways to get around it.

FFXIV for example has a hard mode for raids called minstrel ballad. Basically a bard is telling a tale of very embellished tale of how the foe is defeated. That's their workaround for making the boss much harder and consistent with story because it is just treated as fantasy. I think something similar can probably be implanted here as I feel Balthazar can be reused for a raid version. The model and his attacks are pretty cool. Just need to tune them for raid purposes.

[brenda.9723]

I really like the mystic forge as a location.There will be so many eastereggs in this one :P

[Malediktus.9250]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Malediktus.9250" said:I would prefer fighting some real threats of Tyria instead of playing in a glorified circus. But maybe Anet can suprise me. Balthasar should have been a raid boss, too.

That wouldn't be a very good idea given how Balthazar was fought by the commander. In Raids they "fix" the commander problem because no NPC, ally or enemy is calling us Commander in there. Instead we are a group of 10 random adventurers. Balthazar is integrated to the story and was beaten by the Commander with the help of Aurene, not by a random adventuring group. Not to mention the obvious problems with not everyone liking Raids and so on, but Story is also an important limiting factor in making these final bosses Raids.

And that was why the story was unepic. A godlike being, celebrated as the God of War and fire and empowered by draining 2 elder dragons back to sleep, was beaten by a mere mortal and a juvenile dragon. Seems totally unplausible and silly to me.

[Tyson.5160]

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:I would prefer fighting some real threats of Tyria instead of playing in a glorified circus. But maybe Anet can suprise me. Balthasar should have been a raid boss, too.

That wouldn't be a very good idea given how Balthazar was fought by the commander. In Raids they "fix" the commander problem because no NPC, ally or enemy is calling us Commander in there. Instead we are a group of 10 random adventurers. Balthazar is integrated to the story and was beaten by the Commander with the help of Aurene, not by a random adventuring group. Not to mention the obvious problems with not everyone liking Raids and so on, but Story is also an important limiting factor in making these final bosses Raids.

And that was why the story was unepic. A godlike being, celebrated as the God of War and fire and empowered by draining 2 elder dragons back to sleep, was beaten by a mere mortal and a juvenile dragon. Seems totally unplausible and silly to me.

This is left in the realm of opinion. I personally felt the epicness of the fight. If it gets too difficult where the majority of the player base doesn’t complete it, then no one would come back for the LS chapters etc. and thus harm the health of the game. The story has to be able to be completed by everyone. That being said, I’m surprised that they didn’t add a hard mode similar to Mordremoth, which would probably give you that epic feeling your craving.

[Ze Dos Cavalos.6132]

This new raid doesn't feel like a big deal, not really excited about it.

Mystic forge could have been some living story update, we would go there asking help on how to deal with the dragon or whatever.

Im sure lots of gw2 players would be happy to visit the mystic forge in a story mission instead of a raid.

I prefer raids to be something serious like the previous ones. (well w4 wasn't really serious, who cares about saving Saul)

[Feanor.2358]

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:I would prefer fighting some real threats of Tyria instead of playing in a glorified circus. But maybe Anet can suprise me. Balthasar should have been a raid boss, too.

That wouldn't be a very good idea given how Balthazar was fought by the commander. In Raids they "fix" the commander problem because no NPC, ally or enemy is calling us Commander in there. Instead we are a group of 10 random adventurers. Balthazar is integrated to the story and was beaten by the Commander with the help of Aurene, not by a random adventuring group. Not to mention the obvious problems with not everyone liking Raids and so on, but Story is also an important limiting factor in making these final bosses Raids.

And that was why the story was unepic. A godlike being, celebrated as the God of War and fire and empowered by draining 2 elder dragons back to sleep, was beaten by a mere mortal and a juvenile dragon. Seems totally unplausible and silly to me.

This is left in the realm of opinion. I personally felt the epicness of the fight. If it gets too difficult where the majority of the player base doesn’t complete it, then no one would come back for the LS chapters etc. and thus harm the health of the game. The story has to be able to be completed by everyone. That being said, I’m surprised that they didn’t add a hard mode similar to Mordremoth, which would probably give you that epic feeling your craving.

The problem with this approach is you play this once, at best, and often not even that. It's not really worth the effort of developing it.

Besides, a solo fight it will never feel properly epic when you have bosses tuned for 5 or 10-man parties.

[FrizzFreston.5290]

The first thing I thought of was the hearthstone expansion One Night in Karazhan. But that may just be me.

[Tyson.5160]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:I would prefer fighting some real threats of Tyria instead of playing in a glorified circus. But maybe Anet can suprise me. Balthasar should have been a raid boss, too.

That wouldn't be a very good idea given how Balthazar was fought by the commander. In Raids they "fix" the commander problem because no NPC, ally or enemy is calling us Commander in there. Instead we are a group of 10 random adventurers. Balthazar is integrated to the story and was beaten by the Commander with the help of Aurene, not by a random adventuring group. Not to mention the obvious problems with not everyone liking Raids and so on, but Story is also an important limiting factor in making these final bosses Raids.

And that was why the story was unepic. A godlike being, celebrated as the God of War and fire and empowered by draining 2 elder dragons back to sleep, was beaten by a mere mortal and a juvenile dragon. Seems totally unplausible and silly to me.

This is left in the realm of opinion. I personally felt the epicness of the fight. If it gets too difficult where the majority of the player base doesn’t complete it, then no one would come back for the LS chapters etc. and thus harm the health of the game. The story has to be able to be completed by everyone. That being said, I’m surprised that they didn’t add a hard mode similar to Mordremoth, which would probably give you that epic feeling your craving.

The problem with this approach is you play this once, at best, and often not even that. It's not really worth the effort of developing it.

Besides, a solo fight it will never feel properly epic when you have bosses tuned for 5 or 10-man parties.

Oh I know and I get it, however we have people like Maled, who wanted a super challenging fight from Balthazar. I suppose he could have faught him in greens I guess.

[Ferus.3165]

@Blaeys.3102 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:An odd choice for a raid subject at this point. Thought they might try and tie in with PoF/LS4 themes

There are well discussed reasons why they cannot do this.

Raids have to be a stand alone game element with minimal, almost non-existent story or else they risk becoming semi-mandatory for story-focused players - a group they have specifically stated are not a target audience for the GW2 version of raids.

They basically have to be treated as a separate game within the game.

Many games have sidequests.

[Talindra.4958]

I just hope cm isn't another dhuum cm. I honestly don't find dhuum cm fun. ?

Wonder what goodies we get this time from raid xD

[Talindra.4958]

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@maxwelgm.4315 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:Not sure if I like the theme of this raid, seems like it is lacking any serious backgrounds

We'r inside the mystic forge I think the devs can go nuts with the backgrounds =)

From the trailer I got more of a "this is a just for fun event" vibe without any impact on the game lore

Finally they did this, since our PC is actually not part of raids but rather "elite mercenaries". Also a chance to establish gw2-only lore backgrounds (after so many years) without nodding to gw1 all the time. Last but most important, raids don't have to be this grimdark planescape scenario just because WoW did that; GW2 has set itself aside in gameplay and the same should go for design. Dhuum was a great boss but had a very meh WoW-ish lich king edgelord vibe going, but Zommoros? Can be a really good mix of satirical yet sadistic encounters, definitely not "just for fun" but also not edgy.

I would prefer fighting some real threats of Tyria instead of playing in a glorified circus. But maybe Anet can suprise me. Balthasar should have been a raid boss, too.

Anet will surprise you ??