How is it fair I get 5 acolades in a match and lose and literally get nothing for it? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

How is it fair I get 5 acolades in a match and lose and literally get nothing for it?

It's really starting to bother me. If I am kicking butt why am I punished if the 4 others cant pull their weight? How is that okay? What is the justification?

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  • I’d guess that if one team has a player who is above average in that match, the other team has one too. If his/her team lost, he/she would probably ask the same question.

  • kipthelip.5802kipthelip.5802 Member ✭✭
    edited September 12, 2018

    Its not fair and its a sign of the kitten poor match making this game has because you were almost certainly put with four players all more then marginally below your skill level. It should never happen.

  • @Einsof.1457 said:
    It's really starting to bother me. If I am kicking butt why am I punished if the 4 others cant pull their weight? How is that okay? What is the justification?

    It's same as dps meters, you can be top but still fail mechanics or lose the match.

  • Patrick.2987Patrick.2987 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We reward top stats by giving extra pips. We have no plans to reward top stats by giving skill rating bonuses or anything like that. If we do that, people will stop focus on doing the things required to win and just chase top stats, even if it hurts your team's chances of winning overall.

    Probably what OP did.

  • Einsof.1457Einsof.1457 Member ✭✭
    edited September 12, 2018

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We reward top stats by giving extra pips. We have no plans to reward top stats by giving skill rating bonuses or anything like that. If we do that, people will stop focus on doing the things required to win and just chase top stats, even if it hurts your team's chances of winning overall.

    Thanks for the response. Would a few more pips per top stat be maybe on the table?

  • Einsof.1457Einsof.1457 Member ✭✭
    edited September 12, 2018

    @Patrick.2987 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We reward top stats by giving extra pips. We have no plans to reward top stats by giving skill rating bonuses or anything like that. If we do that, people will stop focus on doing the things required to win and just chase top stats, even if it hurts your team's chances of winning overall.

    Probably what OP did.

    No, I was just trying to win...it just so happens I am in some weird sort of MMR hell where I get top stats without trying more often than I expect I suppose.

  • @kipthelip.5802 said:
    Its not fair and its a sign of the kitten poor match making this game has because you were almost certainly put with four players all more then marginally below your skill level. It should never happen.

    Can’t match people of equal rating if there are not enough players available.

  • Sorem.9157Sorem.9157 Member ✭✭✭

    @Patrick.2987 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We reward top stats by giving extra pips. We have no plans to reward top stats by giving skill rating bonuses or anything like that. If we do that, people will stop focus on doing the things required to win and just chase top stats, even if it hurts your team's chances of winning overall.

    Probably what OP did.

    I mean, if you got all five top stats it means you probably did something right at least. I get that having say top kills wont mean you carry but it doesnt mean you did poorly and spent the whole match preying for kills without focusing on the objectives.

    Yes, it is VERY frustrating to get all top stats and lose the match. I understand OP'S feelings that is why i think we should rework the top stats into something that can actually be used to reflect rating gains once a match is over.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 13, 2018

    @Einsof.1457 said:
    It's really starting to bother me. If I am kicking butt why am I punished if the 4 others cant pull their weight? How is that okay? What is the justification?

    its a team game.
    you win as a team or lose as a team and get rated as a team.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    CLICK HERE FOR A FREE SCREEN CLEANING SERVICE
    I miss team queue...

  • @Patrick.2987 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We reward top stats by giving extra pips. We have no plans to reward top stats by giving skill rating bonuses or anything like that. If we do that, people will stop focus on doing the things required to win and just chase top stats, even if it hurts your team's chances of winning overall.

    Probably what OP did.

    Probably not. The only time I ever get more than 3 top stats while being on the losing team is if my teammates all went afk because they think the opposing team is just better and stopped trying altogether like losers who shouldn't even play pvp.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LazySummer.2568 said:

    @Patrick.2987 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We reward top stats by giving extra pips. We have no plans to reward top stats by giving skill rating bonuses or anything like that. If we do that, people will stop focus on doing the things required to win and just chase top stats, even if it hurts your team's chances of winning overall.

    Probably what OP did.

    Probably not. The only time I ever get more than 3 top stats while being on the losing team is if my teammates all went afk because they think the opposing team is just better and stopped trying altogether like losers who shouldn't even play pvp.

    I typically end up with 3-5 top stats in losing games, especially if the team sucks. I agree with Ben though, if the game rewards top stats players will ingnore objectives and chase stats. I wish there is a way to reward individual performance.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 13, 2018

    getting multiple top stats is telling, but one or two doesn't mean anything. you could get top damage and be a bunker at far the whole match fighting another bunker, or a thief getting top kills by rotating all the points and sniping ppl at 20% hp.

    what matters most are the objective stats (offense, defense) and positive kdr.

  • @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We reward top stats by giving extra pips. We have no plans to reward top stats by giving skill rating bonuses or anything like that. If we do that, people will stop focus on doing the things required to win and just chase top stats, even if it hurts your team's chances of winning overall.

    Why not changing top stats to count the things required to win instead?

  • @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We reward top stats by giving extra pips. We have no plans to reward top stats by giving skill rating bonuses or anything like that. If we do that, people will stop focus on doing the things required to win and just chase top stats, even if it hurts your team's chances of winning overall.

    100% agree. What about a new game mode tho?
    Deathmatch shouldn't be hard for example... Just remove the points
    Capture the Flag - probably more work to do here since mesmer portals/thief shortbow would be ridiculous
    King of the Hill - only mid point maybe?

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 13, 2018

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We reward top stats by giving extra pips. We have no plans to reward top stats by giving skill rating bonuses or anything like that. If we do that, people will stop focus on doing the things required to win and just chase top stats, even if it hurts your team's chances of winning overall.

    Why not changing top stats to count the things required to win instead?

    Because lot of things required to win are not quantifiable. Like you wanna give topstats for running around the map for roaming builds? There is a lot of actions for roles you just cannot scale that way. Doing something to make pvp more attractive to more ppl again, in particular also make good players come back and give ppl reasons to improve their skill and to care would help vs these matchmaking problems much more than anything else. But Anet seems to give up on PvP and also WvW, barely new content, rewarding loses so ppl can afk farm, not enough balance patches etc. Its sad to see the competitive parts of this game dying so hard in particular because GW2 has so much potential for it. But when Anet doesn't care they don't care, so things just getting worse with every player stop playing PvP.

  • People chase the top stats anyways. Besides that, there is no benefit to it for unranked players. The top stats should encourage players to play different roles anyways shouldn't they? Ie DPS, tanks, decappers, bunkers, healers, ect. Instead we end up with 2 zerk meta FBs and 2 scourges almost every match and usually either a mirage or a holosmith.

  • Dreddo.9865Dreddo.9865 Member ✭✭✭

    I really doubt the majority of dedicated PvP players would focus on the pips bonus rather than winning the game. Then again you can give a bit more if top stats are gained through a won match (and way less to the team that lost). Problem solved.

  • @bravan.3876 said:

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We reward top stats by giving extra pips. We have no plans to reward top stats by giving skill rating bonuses or anything like that. If we do that, people will stop focus on doing the things required to win and just chase top stats, even if it hurts your team's chances of winning overall.

    Why not changing top stats to count the things required to win instead?

    Because lot of things required to win are not quantifiable. Like you wanna give topstats for running around the map for roaming builds? There is a lot of actions for roles you just cannot scale that way. Doing something to make pvp more attractive to more ppl again, in particular also make good players come back and give ppl reasons to improve their skill and to care would help vs these matchmaking problems much more than anything else. But Anet seems to give up on PvP and also WvW, barely new content, rewarding loses so ppl can afk farm, not enough balance patches etc. Its sad to see the competitive parts of this game dying so hard in particular because GW2 has so much potential for it. But when Anet doesn't care they don't care, so things just getting worse with every player stop playing PvP.

    That doesn't mean there it can't be done to any degree. One thing is having such a system fully determining rating adjustments, and another is having it affect adjustments to a small degree. Putting a finger on the scales.
    The more actions that count towards victory the system can detet, and better the system can determine those actions, the more weight it can have in rating adjustments. It's the kid of thing that improves over time through iterations.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Einsof.1457 said:
    It's really starting to bother me. If I am kicking butt why am I punished if the 4 others cant pull their weight? How is that okay? What is the justification?

    its a team game.
    you win as a team or lose as a team and get rated as a team.

    Problem is that unless it's changed and I missed the change, this isn't actually the case.

    The rating you gain or lose is based on your rating versus the average rating of the enemy team. So if you're the top player on your team by rating, you typically stand to lose a lot of rating if you lose and to gain very little if you win. You might win or lose as a team, but your rating gain or loss does not take into account whether you're the best of a bad lot and the comparison of average MMR of each team would indicate that a loss is expected.

    Which has the effect that the games that are actually the hardest for you are often the ones where you stand to gain the least and lose the most. If you're the top player in your team, you generally have to be playing at your best to win: if you fall short in your personal performance, nobody else is going to pick up the slack. Which makes games where you get a lot of top stats and lose doubly frustrating: because this usually indicates that this was what had happened.

    Conversely, the games that are often the easiest - when you're the lowest MMR player in the team and the rest of the team is essentially carrying you, so it likely doesn't matter if you're not playing your best as long as you're making a decent effort - are often the ones where you stand to profit the most and lose the least (although you might miss out on the Top Stat pip. Reward-wise, I'd take a win without a top stat over a loss with all of them any day of the week.)

    "Win as a team or lose as a team and get rated as a team" is how it should be.

    The problem is that you win or lose as a team, and then get rated as an individual.

    Which can make rating progress even more of a crapshoot than it already is. If you have a lot of games where you're expected to carry but the enemy team as a whole is better than yours, you could end up in a deep hole. On the other hand, if you have a lot of game that are the reverse, you could end up in a much higher bracket than you should be.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 16, 2018

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We reward top stats by giving extra pips. We have no plans to reward top stats by giving skill rating bonuses or anything like that. If we do that, people will stop focus on doing the things required to win and just chase top stats, even if it hurts your team's chances of winning overall.

    Hi Ben,

    What about something like this:

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/53443/new-scoreboard

    I believe that this system would make the scoreboard meaningful and indicative of player skill. It would also encourage healthy gameplay, discourage and punish griefing, and act as an accurate way to provide skill rating bonuses/cushions. Furthermore, this would be an interesting (yet effective) way to measure the difference in how much impact a platinum player has in a match compared to those in lower divisions.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @draxynnic.3719 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Einsof.1457 said:
    It's really starting to bother me. If I am kicking butt why am I punished if the 4 others cant pull their weight? How is that okay? What is the justification?

    its a team game.
    you win as a team or lose as a team and get rated as a team.

    Problem is that unless it's changed and I missed the change, this isn't actually the case.

    The rating you gain or lose is based on your rating versus the average rating of the enemy team. So if you're the top player on your team by rating, you typically stand to lose a lot of rating if you lose and to gain very little if you win. You might win or lose as a team, but your rating gain or loss does not take into account whether you're the best of a bad lot and the comparison of average MMR of each team would indicate that a loss is expected.

    Which has the effect that the games that are actually the hardest for you are often the ones where you stand to gain the least and lose the most. If you're the top player in your team, you generally have to be playing at your best to win: if you fall short in your personal performance, nobody else is going to pick up the slack. Which makes games where you get a lot of top stats and lose doubly frustrating: because this usually indicates that this was what had happened.

    Conversely, the games that are often the easiest - when you're the lowest MMR player in the team and the rest of the team is essentially carrying you, so it likely doesn't matter if you're not playing your best as long as you're making a decent effort - are often the ones where you stand to profit the most and lose the least (although you might miss out on the Top Stat pip. Reward-wise, I'd take a win without a top stat over a loss with all of them any day of the week.)

    "Win as a team or lose as a team and get rated as a team" is how it should be.

    The problem is that you win or lose as a team, and then get rated as an individual.

    Which can make rating progress even more of a crapshoot than it already is. If you have a lot of games where you're expected to carry but the enemy team as a whole is better than yours, you could end up in a deep hole. On the other hand, if you have a lot of game that are the reverse, you could end up in a much higher bracket than you should be.

    My comment was a generalisation... as in rated as a team like if you lose the match you all lose rating but you pretty much went into fine point of why its such a bad format.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    CLICK HERE FOR A FREE SCREEN CLEANING SERVICE
    I miss team queue...

  • breno.5423breno.5423 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We reward top stats by giving extra pips. We have no plans to reward top stats by giving skill rating bonuses or anything like that. If we do that, people will stop focus on doing the things required to win and just chase top stats, even if it hurts your team's chances of winning overall.

    Good, but pve farmers will keep focusing in these craps instead of "conquest" itself.
    You guys should remove all pve farm incentives from spvp.

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