How much toughness for roaming? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

How much toughness for roaming?

whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭

Overall what is a good amount to have to avoid those cheesy deadeyes, soulbeasts and mirages to 100-0 you?

I am lately running a revenant for solo roaming and to be honest I experimented with few stats.

Using a mix of mara and zerk with dura runes i achieve around 2450-2500 armor.

I tried using some cavs and i achieved even 3100-3200 armor but against a good soulbeast nothing changed, stupid rapid fire could still drop me from 100% to 10% health like I have 2k armor.

So what's the sense of armor?
I am pretty sure he wasn't even full zerk, but the usual mara dura rune and some zerk trinket.

So I should just run full zerk for a really high risk high reward build?
Maybe in outnumbers I'll get blowed immediately, but against good opponents it doesn't matter, nobody can win a 1v2 unless you get one lucky surprise kill on one of the two guys and then fight the other one.

The extra armor saved me at 5% from some malicious backstab, but it's pretty hard to recover from that position so it's the same as being downed.

And I am saying people are running noob condi builds even on deadeye, condi mirage right now is so toxic in the roaming scenario, an experience one can even win 1vs3s with ease.

I don't wanna play a cheesy buils like deadeye mirage or soulbeast, they are too easy mode and low risk for me to have fun with.

<1

Comments

  • whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ubi.4136 said:
    Honestly, none. Sure, you could put on durability runes, but the power creep is so bad atm, that regardless of your toughness, there are more than a handful of builds that will still 100-0 you in a couple seconds flat...even with max toughness. I would plan for some of the more mobile builds with at least 1 or 2 invulnerables if you really want to roam.

    Rev is fun and strong to play right now, obviously it's not the easiest build to play at his max, but yeah, got to the conclusion that toughness is getting useless more and more.

  • Another option would be to use a more defensive trait line like Retribution since Versed in Stone offers protection and could help you recover after the initial burst. Other options could include using Rolling Mists so you can use less Precison, using sigil of energy, or steal health on crit food.

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  • whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dagger.2035 said:
    Another option would be to use a more defensive trait line like Retribution since Versed in Stone offers protection and could help you recover after the initial burst. Other options could include using Rolling Mists so you can use less Precison, using sigil of energy, or steal health on crit food.

    Of course I run the precision trait which double up the fury crit chance to 40%.
    But giving up devastation for retribution I lose quite a bit of damage output, and rev double sword shines at quick bursts.
    If I give up even the damage will be a less optimal build don't you think?

  • I usually keep it around dura runes + 2 knight trinkets if I am thinking I will run into groups.

    If its against solo players, I will usually use zerker trinkets (dragonhunter, holosmith, spellbreaker).

    You see I gave up on toughness builds because everytime I try to play some kind of high toughness build, I will run into some trailblazer condi build and end up not having enough damage to kill the condicheese. Also even 3k armor warrior will still get 1-shot by malicious backstab and will be incapable of doing anything against it as deadeye can just stealth everytime you're about to get near him.

    If theyd get rid of these 1-shot houdini classess like deadeye and mirage, meta would be better, as they could be punished for failing their burst.

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  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 15, 2018

    This is a personal and playstyle thing (and also a little bit of a class thing), there is no correct or wrong answer because the simple answer is whatever works for you. You see, we cant tell you whether you are successfull or not.

    I can tell you that when roaming on a full viper PvE built dps mirage (obviously 0 toughness) compared to a bruiser built tough as nails hybrid mirage (+800 toughness) ... its a toss. I can tell I win some I loose some by the two styles but its hard to say whats better since I cant rerun the exact same scenario. I run with the bruiser most of the time but of course there will always be situations where that toughness didnt matter at all but as long as I perform well - which I think I do since this build is particularly well suited to counter just that kind of dps ganker that many roamers run - I dont really care. Most will say "lol thats way too much". Yeah well I still kill nearly everything I meet, whats the benchmark for too much? And also I've been called a cheater so that just makes me enjoy it.

  • Gemnaid.4219Gemnaid.4219 Member ✭✭✭

    1100 is enough.

  • Dont stack on toughness lol..it's useless.unless you're fighting against a couple of pugs. If you are fighting someone with the same skill level or higher then you're pretty much dead.

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  • I wasn't sure what you were running so I just threw out a bunch of options. If you have to give up Devastation you may be right about the trade offs. I just wanted to bring up some other alternatives since adding toughness didn't have much impact.

    I also tend to use Soldiers or Captains for toughness when roaming since they have less impact on dps. Soldiers works well with Marauders and Captains pairs well with Valkyrie.

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  • Toughness is useless

    -% incoming damage is far more effective while allowing you to max damage output.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    if solo roaming to a 5 man team even 10 man, no toughness is ok.

    toughness is for tank classes or zerg battles of front liners =)

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  • rng.1024rng.1024 Member ✭✭✭

    Contrary to the stat description, toughness really shines when you get hit by many small damage packets in a short amount of time, while vitality helps you survive those big 2.0 and up coefficient attacks.

    However, during the HoT meta I found (through well over a 1000 hours roaming and yolo-ing) that running 2500 armor and a +70 vitality food on my thief I couldn't get oneshotted by any class (except this 1 trap thief who prebuffed like crazy running boosters).

    Of course that's going to be different now, because of the PoF powercreep. An observation I got though, running Dragonhunter lately, is that all high burst classes seem to lose their edge when you hit 2500 armor. Might be be because they also don't run full zerk, or 2500 just gets to close to the theoretical max. Anyways once i hit that I can relax alot more fighting burst classes, but has to be 2500 and above because I don't get the same on a zerker warr with defence line (about 2400 armor with retaliation).

    Anything more than that is a waste in my opinion, since this gives you plenty of time to react and counter. Could also be just me since I've mained thief from the zerker meta.

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  • @whoknocks.4935 said:

    I don't wanna play a cheesy buils like deadeye mirage or soulbeast, they are too easy mode and low risk for me to have fun with.

    If you are referring to "some" builds from these classes that are cheesier than others, please state this specifically instead of blanketing these classes as "no matter what you run, its cheese".

    That is all

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  • I am running a Power Soulbeast roamer build with Ascended Soldier's Armor, Marauder's Trinkets, and Berserker Weapons. I have around 2800 Toughness and 22k HP. I find that I can usually not get 1 shot with this build most of the time. I still die, don't get me wrong, but at least I can survive the initial onslaught and get a few hits in myself before I get totally wrecked.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    Overall what is a good amount to have to avoid those cheesy deadeyes, soulbeasts and mirages to 100-0 you?
    I don't wanna play a cheesy buils like deadeye mirage or soulbeast, they are too easy mode and low risk for me to have fun with.

    thief, mesmer and ranger have been the top 3 in solo roaming for probably most of gw2 history.
    playing a less optimal build for this regardless of armor will only help you against bad players of the more optimal builds.
    therefor one cannot give you a correct thoughness value that will protect you.
    but playing a suboptimal build you need to assume your opponent bad to win anyway so id say in that case you dont have to invest into armor.

    read this, become a better player now.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Azynax.5176 said:
    Dont stack on toughness lol..it's useless.unless you're fighting against a couple of pugs. If you are fighting someone with the same skill level or higher then you're pretty much dead.

    I disagree. Toughness can easily make you survive the initial assault of a good thief/mirage attacker and turn the tables because when you return the favor, they melt. If you think "stacking toughness" means full soldiers/minstrels/etc without the ability to bite back, then please dont. Thats not how roamers stack toughness.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 15, 2018

    only bring toughness if you can avoid the initial burst and your build has sustain. for rev I would rely on maybe a lil toughess, -dmg% mods, decent amount of vitality, and plain ol out playing.

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  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If memory serves, holo-mesmer-spellbreaker-soulbeast-reaper-thief all play with mostly damage gear. They rely on invulns-mobility-dodges-broken rotations. By getting toughness, you sacrifice damage. It depends on your playstyle, on class knowledge, on timings.

  • babazhook.6805babazhook.6805 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 15, 2018

    As I play most thieves I tend to like toughness around 2300. As another pointed out it for all the little hits and help with those initial hits. On other classes I see no reason why you can not preserve toughness without affecting damage out and this remains true with the Condition specs. As example I have one warrior with uber toughness , it pushing 4000 in a Condi spec. This one by design is built to soak up damage with plenty of heals in between with shouts etc. This build both roams and runs with groups. This latter is a Condiion spec using burns from torch off hand for the most part and with might stacking does not see a big hit to damage out because of that high toughness. The idea behind this build is if you stay at melee with it it going to outlast you even as it applies ever more in the way of AOE burns.

    The point is I really do not think there a "right number" for any stat. One has to factor in all the other variables such as what ones profession is, the basis of the build and how much of any given stat sacrificed or taken that one can get through other traits.

  • The damage formulas in this game are so awful that toughness is borderline pointless. Protection and other -% effects are far, far more effective than it is.

  • SpellOfIniquity.1780SpellOfIniquity.1780 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 15, 2018

    Thinking on your feet is key. Just like in PvP when someone +1's your point, you should immediately begin kiting, baiting and forcing ground. Never assume you can handle multiple opponents toe to toe until you've had time to gauge the situation.

    To answer your question though, it's best to have enough armor and health to be able to trade a couple hits when necessary, but don't depend on it being your saving grace. How much armor and health you'll need will depend on what you're playing.

    Personally, I prefer to go full offensive when I roam, though I don't exactly recommend it. I have a lot of difficulty recovering from mistakes or surprise attacks and outnumbered fights mostly amount to forcing ground so I can fight in a place I'm comfortable. Still, with high damage output I can turn fights in a flash if my opponents' aren't careful. I strongly prefer this method over a little extra durability even if it's less optimal. Maybe you find the same, in which case again, thinking on your feet is key. As a long time Necro who also roams as such, the environment is crucial to my success. Learn to utilize your surroundings and you'll have a much better time, I promise.

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  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Toughness has been useless for a while now... Need to stack mobility, blocks, stealth and invulnerable skills.

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  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 16, 2018

    Toughness has its place.

    The popularity of D/P oneshot deadeye is raising. We will see more of this kitten in the future. Last week I was "delighted" with one of these guys ganking me for a whole evening. I used the opportunity to experiment a bit with different armor combinations to see what it takes to survive the non-telegraphed instant mark+backstab combo.

    Full berserk light armor 21k hp (soul reaping necro) he did oneshot me with 22k backstabs constantly. Somewhat of a sweetspot is the good old 2,6k armor rule for wvw. His backstab did hit with about 16k giving me a chance to cast some defense and fight back.

    Side Note: That guy was oneshotting spellbreakers out of nowhere as the backstab bypassed the whole defense traitline. That's something you don't see very often.

    So much about broken deadeye stuff.

    Against a power shatter mesmer I would always go full marauder. His burst is predictable as the stealth uptime is lower and the telegraph better noticable.

  • whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yeah this past two days of roaming after reset are really a pain, matched up with Gankdara and Ganksolation servers.

    It's a constant gank by 5 plus people vs me.

    As soon as I find a fair 1vs1 and I am about to win, literally out of nowhere appears a trash ganker who +1 the fight and kill me.

    The majority are oneshot deadeyes, who just root me and oneshot me with DJ or MB, sometimes reacting fast I can tp to them, reveal them and oneshot them too, but the good ones just run the remove reveal elite, so it is useless.

    Power mirages never oneshot me 100-0, because I can evade their burst better since it's kinda telegraphed, it is still a cheesy build abused by noobs who wants easy kills, but yeah nothing new under the sun.

    Condi mirages are way more present and more cancerous.

    Soulbeasts are another plague too, 90% of them +1 you at 1800 range or use a kitten boon easy mode build and you can't win.

    50% are deadeyes, 20% noobeasts, 25% memsers and the rest 5% just normal roaming builds.

    Even spellbreaker is a fair build compared to those cheesy lame builds.

    So yeah, from what I learnt toughness won't help in outnumbers against decent players anyway, so better just go full damage and playing more high risk and aggressive.

  • As far as I'm concerned, it doesnt hurt to trade off a half or all Zerk trinkets for Captain or Knight.

    Condi is able to cheese it's way without that trade through Rabid, and Settler/Apoc. Expertise be damned, there is already enough durations through runes and traits.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    So yeah, from what I learnt toughness won't help in outnumbers against decent players anyway, so better just go full damage and playing more high risk and aggressive.

    But the real question is... how much does it hurt?

    Like, lets do a simple and easy benchmark against something that's not players since we have no idea what enemies run and that would always vary with skills too. Lets say... Use sentries for a rough measure of single target dps potential. How fast can marauders kill them? With my +788 toughness bruiser build I can bring one down in ~3s from first hit to dead. Am I far off marauders?

    We could use T0 camps as a measure for AoE potential (assuming choke), if you can kill all the guards+supervisor+1-2 dollies before sword triggers. For my bruiser the answer is yes. That's a little overkill though, the sentry is more interesting and easier to test.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    Yeah this past two days of roaming after reset are really a pain, matched up with Gankdara and Ganksolation servers.

    It's a constant gank by 5 plus people vs me.

    As soon as I find a fair 1vs1 and I am about to win, literally out of nowhere appears a trash ganker who +1 the fight and kill me.

    The majority are oneshot deadeyes, who just root me and oneshot me with DJ or MB, sometimes reacting fast I can tp to them, reveal them and oneshot them too, but the good ones just run the remove reveal elite, so it is useless.

    Power mirages never oneshot me 100-0, because I can evade their burst better since it's kinda telegraphed, it is still a cheesy build abused by noobs who wants easy kills, but yeah nothing new under the sun.

    Condi mirages are way more present and more cancerous.

    Soulbeasts are another plague too, 90% of them +1 you at 1800 range or use a kitten boon easy mode build and you can't win.

    50% are deadeyes, 20% noobeasts, 25% memsers and the rest 5% just normal roaming builds.

    Even spellbreaker is a fair build compared to those cheesy lame builds.

    So yeah, from what I learnt toughness won't help in outnumbers against decent players anyway, so better just go full damage and playing more high risk and aggressive.

    And which class do you play?

  • whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    Yeah this past two days of roaming after reset are really a pain, matched up with Gankdara and Ganksolation servers.

    It's a constant gank by 5 plus people vs me.

    As soon as I find a fair 1vs1 and I am about to win, literally out of nowhere appears a trash ganker who +1 the fight and kill me.

    The majority are oneshot deadeyes, who just root me and oneshot me with DJ or MB, sometimes reacting fast I can tp to them, reveal them and oneshot them too, but the good ones just run the remove reveal elite, so it is useless.

    Power mirages never oneshot me 100-0, because I can evade their burst better since it's kinda telegraphed, it is still a cheesy build abused by noobs who wants easy kills, but yeah nothing new under the sun.

    Condi mirages are way more present and more cancerous.

    Soulbeasts are another plague too, 90% of them +1 you at 1800 range or use a kitten boon easy mode build and you can't win.

    50% are deadeyes, 20% noobeasts, 25% memsers and the rest 5% just normal roaming builds.

    Even spellbreaker is a fair build compared to those cheesy lame builds.

    So yeah, from what I learnt toughness won't help in outnumbers against decent players anyway, so better just go full damage and playing more high risk and aggressive.

    And which class do you play?

    Playing power herald staff + sword/sword, I have 82 hours on the profession only.

    I run Marauder weapons and armor with dura runes and full zerk trinkets and backpiece, I have about 2450 armor, I was wondering if add toughness trinkets like cavs, but it doesn't seems it makes a big difference, having 3k or 2.5k armor is useless against those deadeyes, soulbeasts and other heavy power builds.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 16, 2018

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    Yeah this past two days of roaming after reset are really a pain, matched up with Gankdara and Ganksolation servers.

    It's a constant gank by 5 plus people vs me.

    As soon as I find a fair 1vs1 and I am about to win, literally out of nowhere appears a trash ganker who +1 the fight and kill me.

    The majority are oneshot deadeyes, who just root me and oneshot me with DJ or MB, sometimes reacting fast I can tp to them, reveal them and oneshot them too, but the good ones just run the remove reveal elite, so it is useless.

    Power mirages never oneshot me 100-0, because I can evade their burst better since it's kinda telegraphed, it is still a cheesy build abused by noobs who wants easy kills, but yeah nothing new under the sun.

    Condi mirages are way more present and more cancerous.

    Soulbeasts are another plague too, 90% of them +1 you at 1800 range or use a kitten boon easy mode build and you can't win.

    50% are deadeyes, 20% noobeasts, 25% memsers and the rest 5% just normal roaming builds.

    Even spellbreaker is a fair build compared to those cheesy lame builds.

    So yeah, from what I learnt toughness won't help in outnumbers against decent players anyway, so better just go full damage and playing more high risk and aggressive.

    And which class do you play?

    Playing power herald staff + sword/sword, I have 82 hours on the profession only.

    I run Marauder weapons and armor with dura runes and full zerk trinkets and backpiece, I have about 2450 armor, I was wondering if add toughness trinkets like cavs, but it doesn't seems it makes a big difference, having 3k or 2.5k armor is useless against those deadeyes, soulbeasts and other heavy power builds.

    with a little armor+hp etc. you will be able to survive the 'malicious backstab out of nowhere'. after that its a question if your possibly superior skill is enough to offset the possible difference in buildquality for that fight. but as said above that is only possible if you assume them to be bad to begin with.

    read this, become a better player now.

  • whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    Yeah this past two days of roaming after reset are really a pain, matched up with Gankdara and Ganksolation servers.

    It's a constant gank by 5 plus people vs me.

    As soon as I find a fair 1vs1 and I am about to win, literally out of nowhere appears a trash ganker who +1 the fight and kill me.

    The majority are oneshot deadeyes, who just root me and oneshot me with DJ or MB, sometimes reacting fast I can tp to them, reveal them and oneshot them too, but the good ones just run the remove reveal elite, so it is useless.

    Power mirages never oneshot me 100-0, because I can evade their burst better since it's kinda telegraphed, it is still a cheesy build abused by noobs who wants easy kills, but yeah nothing new under the sun.

    Condi mirages are way more present and more cancerous.

    Soulbeasts are another plague too, 90% of them +1 you at 1800 range or use a kitten boon easy mode build and you can't win.

    50% are deadeyes, 20% noobeasts, 25% memsers and the rest 5% just normal roaming builds.

    Even spellbreaker is a fair build compared to those cheesy lame builds.

    So yeah, from what I learnt toughness won't help in outnumbers against decent players anyway, so better just go full damage and playing more high risk and aggressive.

    And which class do you play?

    Playing power herald staff + sword/sword, I have 82 hours on the profession only.

    I run Marauder weapons and armor with dura runes and full zerk trinkets and backpiece, I have about 2450 armor, I was wondering if add toughness trinkets like cavs, but it doesn't seems it makes a big difference, having 3k or 2.5k armor is useless against those deadeyes, soulbeasts and other heavy power builds.

    with a little armor+hp etc. you will be able to survive the 'malicious backstab out of nowhere'. after that its a question if your possibly superior skill is enough to offset the possible difference in buildquality for that fight. but as said above that is only possible if you assume them to be bad to begin with.

    Dunno, i was running 3.2k armor and a full malice backstab, maybe this guy was full zerk scholar rune, got me for 23k crit... so it's useless.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    Yeah this past two days of roaming after reset are really a pain, matched up with Gankdara and Ganksolation servers.

    It's a constant gank by 5 plus people vs me.

    As soon as I find a fair 1vs1 and I am about to win, literally out of nowhere appears a trash ganker who +1 the fight and kill me.

    The majority are oneshot deadeyes, who just root me and oneshot me with DJ or MB, sometimes reacting fast I can tp to them, reveal them and oneshot them too, but the good ones just run the remove reveal elite, so it is useless.

    Power mirages never oneshot me 100-0, because I can evade their burst better since it's kinda telegraphed, it is still a cheesy build abused by noobs who wants easy kills, but yeah nothing new under the sun.

    Condi mirages are way more present and more cancerous.

    Soulbeasts are another plague too, 90% of them +1 you at 1800 range or use a kitten boon easy mode build and you can't win.

    50% are deadeyes, 20% noobeasts, 25% memsers and the rest 5% just normal roaming builds.

    Even spellbreaker is a fair build compared to those cheesy lame builds.

    So yeah, from what I learnt toughness won't help in outnumbers against decent players anyway, so better just go full damage and playing more high risk and aggressive.

    And which class do you play?

    Playing power herald staff + sword/sword, I have 82 hours on the profession only.

    I run Marauder weapons and armor with dura runes and full zerk trinkets and backpiece, I have about 2450 armor, I was wondering if add toughness trinkets like cavs, but it doesn't seems it makes a big difference, having 3k or 2.5k armor is useless against those deadeyes, soulbeasts and other heavy power builds.

    with a little armor+hp etc. you will be able to survive the 'malicious backstab out of nowhere'. after that its a question if your possibly superior skill is enough to offset the possible difference in buildquality for that fight. but as said above that is only possible if you assume them to be bad to begin with.

    Dunno, i was running 3.2k armor and a full malice backstab, maybe this guy was full zerk scholar rune, got me for 23k crit... so it's useless.

    yes a full malice backstab but that is not out of nowhere. or i havent figured how to instantly build 7 malice without the target noticing, got to wait for the next hizen guide i guess...

    read this, become a better player now.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    Yeah this past two days of roaming after reset are really a pain, matched up with Gankdara and Ganksolation servers.

    It's a constant gank by 5 plus people vs me.

    As soon as I find a fair 1vs1 and I am about to win, literally out of nowhere appears a trash ganker who +1 the fight and kill me.

    The majority are oneshot deadeyes, who just root me and oneshot me with DJ or MB, sometimes reacting fast I can tp to them, reveal them and oneshot them too, but the good ones just run the remove reveal elite, so it is useless.

    Power mirages never oneshot me 100-0, because I can evade their burst better since it's kinda telegraphed, it is still a cheesy build abused by noobs who wants easy kills, but yeah nothing new under the sun.

    Condi mirages are way more present and more cancerous.

    Soulbeasts are another plague too, 90% of them +1 you at 1800 range or use a kitten boon easy mode build and you can't win.

    50% are deadeyes, 20% noobeasts, 25% memsers and the rest 5% just normal roaming builds.

    Even spellbreaker is a fair build compared to those cheesy lame builds.

    So yeah, from what I learnt toughness won't help in outnumbers against decent players anyway, so better just go full damage and playing more high risk and aggressive.

    And which class do you play?

    Playing power herald staff + sword/sword, I have 82 hours on the profession only.

    I run Marauder weapons and armor with dura runes and full zerk trinkets and backpiece, I have about 2450 armor, I was wondering if add toughness trinkets like cavs, but it doesn't seems it makes a big difference, having 3k or 2.5k armor is useless against those deadeyes, soulbeasts and other heavy power builds.

    with a little armor+hp etc. you will be able to survive the 'malicious backstab out of nowhere'. after that its a question if your possibly superior skill is enough to offset the possible difference in buildquality for that fight. but as said above that is only possible if you assume them to be bad to begin with.

    Dunno, i was running 3.2k armor and a full malice backstab, maybe this guy was full zerk scholar rune, got me for 23k crit... so it's useless.

    yes a full malice backstab but that is not out of nowhere. or i havent figured how to instantly build 7 malice without the target noticing, got to wait for the next hizen guide i guess...

    Well, but playing deadeye yourself, you should know you can build malice pretty easily right? And then dodge spam perma stealth without counterplay?

    I revealed him andhe used elite and so it was useless, so I gave up the fight and walked away and boom 23k malicious backstab.

    Wonder why 90% of players in wvw are deadeyes right now.

    On desolation right now there is a new trend, seems a condi hybrid deadeye, he landed on me like 10k DJ but i gave me also confusion torment immob and 10 stacks of poison who destroyed me in few seconds.

    It's becoming a pretty cancerous build abused by literally every noobs.

    The different is, against noobs you have a chance at killing them because they do mistakes, against a good opponent he won't die unless he want to.

    I know you wanna defende your profession you are having fun with, but I would appreciate honesty more instead.

    Hizen has a vid that shoes how ridiculously easy it is to do those backstabs. And many, many people have been doing it his way!

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 16, 2018

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    Dunno, i was running 3.2k armor and a full malice backstab, maybe this guy was full zerk scholar rune, got me for 23k crit... so it's useless.

    That's not possible on instant. You were either base armor or he build up malice on you before backstabbing. I tested that. On 3,2k armor an instant malice backstab or DJ deals about 10 to 12k damage when the teef is full glass. The bigger problem with that amount of armor is: you survive, but still can not fight back effectively as you deal very low damage.

    The thief I was fighting (or let's call it suffering) was as glass as it can get. He backstabbed, switched to SB and ran away to reset because just looking at him while he is visible would have killed him. It would be impossible for him to build up malice without getting killed by me (I killed him once as he tried, after that he just ran away everytime immediately after the backstab attempt).

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    I run Marauder weapons and armor with dura runes and full zerk trinkets and backpiece, I have about 2450 armor

    You should survive an instant backstab when you are at about 20k HP on 2450 armor.

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    On desolation right now there is a new trend, seems a condi hybrid deadeye, he landed on me like 10k DJ but i gave me also confusion torment immob and 10 stacks of poison who destroyed me in few seconds.

    Well, you are playing the class with the weakest condi cleanse. But why didn't you just pop infuse light after the condis were applied, while switching legend and using staff cleanse after the immob ran out to cleanse confu, torment and poison?

  • I just noticed that the metabattle site is recommending that people use a Cavalier's back item to reach 2500 armor. If you switch to Knight's, you have the same defensive stats and you get a 0.4% increase to your average DPS. It's funny that this site is supposed to be optimal, but there's always some odd trait or attribute combination choices...

    Server: Sorrow's Furnace
    Guilds: [DOA] Descendants Of Ascalon, [LOOT] Legendary Order Of Thieves
    Characters: Black Hooded S\D Thief, Celestial Herald & Power Reaper

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 16, 2018

    @Dagger.2035 said:
    I just noticed that the metabattle site is recommending that people use a Cavalier's back item to reach 2500 armor. If you switch to Knight's, you have the same defensive stats and you get a 0.4% increase to your average DPS. It's funny that this site is supposed to be optimal, but there's always some odd trait or attribute combination choices...

    Builds that frontload bursts repeatedly gain more from crit dmg than precision, especially if they have easy access to fury and offset it by other sources (crit on weapon swap/stealth/evade etc).

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 16, 2018

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    Yeah this past two days of roaming after reset are really a pain, matched up with Gankdara and Ganksolation servers.

    It's a constant gank by 5 plus people vs me.

    As soon as I find a fair 1vs1 and I am about to win, literally out of nowhere appears a trash ganker who +1 the fight and kill me.

    The majority are oneshot deadeyes, who just root me and oneshot me with DJ or MB, sometimes reacting fast I can tp to them, reveal them and oneshot them too, but the good ones just run the remove reveal elite, so it is useless.

    Power mirages never oneshot me 100-0, because I can evade their burst better since it's kinda telegraphed, it is still a cheesy build abused by noobs who wants easy kills, but yeah nothing new under the sun.

    Condi mirages are way more present and more cancerous.

    Soulbeasts are another plague too, 90% of them +1 you at 1800 range or use a kitten boon easy mode build and you can't win.

    50% are deadeyes, 20% noobeasts, 25% memsers and the rest 5% just normal roaming builds.

    Even spellbreaker is a fair build compared to those cheesy lame builds.

    So yeah, from what I learnt toughness won't help in outnumbers against decent players anyway, so better just go full damage and playing more high risk and aggressive.

    And which class do you play?

    Playing power herald staff + sword/sword, I have 82 hours on the profession only.

    I run Marauder weapons and armor with dura runes and full zerk trinkets and backpiece, I have about 2450 armor, I was wondering if add toughness trinkets like cavs, but it doesn't seems it makes a big difference, having 3k or 2.5k armor is useless against those deadeyes, soulbeasts and other heavy power builds.

    with a little armor+hp etc. you will be able to survive the 'malicious backstab out of nowhere'. after that its a question if your possibly superior skill is enough to offset the possible difference in buildquality for that fight. but as said above that is only possible if you assume them to be bad to begin with.

    Dunno, i was running 3.2k armor and a full malice backstab, maybe this guy was full zerk scholar rune, got me for 23k crit... so it's useless.

    yes a full malice backstab but that is not out of nowhere. or i havent figured how to instantly build 7 malice without the target noticing, got to wait for the next hizen guide i guess...

    Well, but playing deadeye yourself, you should know you can build malice pretty easily right? And then dodge spam perma stealth without counterplay?

    I revealed him andhe used elite and so it was useless, so I gave up the fight and walked away and boom 23k malicious backstab.

    Wonder why 90% of players in wvw are deadeyes right now.

    On desolation right now there is a new trend, seems a condi hybrid deadeye, he landed on me like 10k DJ but i gave me also confusion torment immob and 10 stacks of poison who destroyed me in few seconds.

    It's becoming a pretty cancerous build abused by literally every noobs.

    The different is, against noobs you have a chance at killing them because they do mistakes, against a good opponent he won't die unless he want to.

    I know you wanna defende your profession you are having fun with, but I would appreciate honesty more instead.

    i am not defending anything here.
    as said. you can build to survive the very first 'out of nowhere' backstab. with that you can kill bad deadeyes.
    you wont kill better deadeyes regardless in a 1 vs 1 fight in a neutral envoirement, because they simply are in advantage.
    why is that dishonest?

    you saying 90% of wvw is now deadeyes - that is dishonest.
    many of the current deadeyes just try out what hizen did in his new video, wich also means they are relatively easy kills as they are squishy and inexperienced (compared to what really is possible).

    read this, become a better player now.

  • How can you survive first backstab? :D

    Low quality trolling since launch
    Seafarer's Rest EotM Hero

  • syszery.1592syszery.1592 Member ✭✭✭

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    Maybe in outnumbers I'll get blowed immediately, but against good opponents it doesn't matter, nobody can win a 1v2 unless you get one lucky surprise kill on one of the two guys and then fight the other one.

    ...

    And I am saying people are running noob condi builds even on deadeye, condi mirage right now is so toxic in the roaming scenario, an experience one can even win 1vs3s with ease.

    Ok, no one can 1v2 (except luck) but mirage can easily 1v3? \confused

  • whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @syszery.1592 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    Maybe in outnumbers I'll get blowed immediately, but against good opponents it doesn't matter, nobody can win a 1v2 unless you get one lucky surprise kill on one of the two guys and then fight the other one.

    ...

    And I am saying people are running noob condi builds even on deadeye, condi mirage right now is so toxic in the roaming scenario, an experience one can even win 1vs3s with ease.

    Ok, no one can 1v2 (except luck) but mirage can easily 1v3? \confused

    Mirage can only decent players 1v2, on bad player can 1v3.

    But nobody can win a 1v2 "unless you get one lucky surprise kill on one of the two guys and then fight the other one." <--- Quoting myself, this is doable by mirage.

    Thanks for your constructing post. Now you can get out out of here thanks.

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    Yeah this past two days of roaming after reset are really a pain, matched up with Gankdara and Ganksolation servers.

    It's a constant gank by 5 plus people vs me.

    As soon as I find a fair 1vs1 and I am about to win, literally out of nowhere appears a trash ganker who +1 the fight and kill me.

    The majority are oneshot deadeyes, who just root me and oneshot me with DJ or MB, sometimes reacting fast I can tp to them, reveal them and oneshot them too, but the good ones just run the remove reveal elite, so it is useless.

    Power mirages never oneshot me 100-0, because I can evade their burst better since it's kinda telegraphed, it is still a cheesy build abused by noobs who wants easy kills, but yeah nothing new under the sun.

    Condi mirages are way more present and more cancerous.

    Soulbeasts are another plague too, 90% of them +1 you at 1800 range or use a kitten boon easy mode build and you can't win.

    50% are deadeyes, 20% noobeasts, 25% memsers and the rest 5% just normal roaming builds.

    Even spellbreaker is a fair build compared to those cheesy lame builds.

    So yeah, from what I learnt toughness won't help in outnumbers against decent players anyway, so better just go full damage and playing more high risk and aggressive.

    And which class do you play?

    Playing power herald staff + sword/sword, I have 82 hours on the profession only.

    I run Marauder weapons and armor with dura runes and full zerk trinkets and backpiece, I have about 2450 armor, I was wondering if add toughness trinkets like cavs, but it doesn't seems it makes a big difference, having 3k or 2.5k armor is useless against those deadeyes, soulbeasts and other heavy power builds.

    with a little armor+hp etc. you will be able to survive the 'malicious backstab out of nowhere'. after that its a question if your possibly superior skill is enough to offset the possible difference in buildquality for that fight. but as said above that is only possible if you assume them to be bad to begin with.

    Dunno, i was running 3.2k armor and a full malice backstab, maybe this guy was full zerk scholar rune, got me for 23k crit... so it's useless.

    yes a full malice backstab but that is not out of nowhere. or i havent figured how to instantly build 7 malice without the target noticing, got to wait for the next hizen guide i guess...

    Well, but playing deadeye yourself, you should know you can build malice pretty easily right? And then dodge spam perma stealth without counterplay?

    I revealed him andhe used elite and so it was useless, so I gave up the fight and walked away and boom 23k malicious backstab.

    Wonder why 90% of players in wvw are deadeyes right now.

    On desolation right now there is a new trend, seems a condi hybrid deadeye, he landed on me like 10k DJ but i gave me also confusion torment immob and 10 stacks of poison who destroyed me in few seconds.

    It's becoming a pretty cancerous build abused by literally every noobs.

    The different is, against noobs you have a chance at killing them because they do mistakes, against a good opponent he won't die unless he want to.

    I know you wanna defende your profession you are having fun with, but I would appreciate honesty more instead.

    One of the builds I run on one of my characters is a hybrid deadeye from POF launch and it is one of the more potent effective builds but mine comes at a price for loading that much dmg, if that person has a similar build to mine then they only have one or no stun breaks and it relies heavily on deaths retreat. I actually don't use secondary weapon much at all, but could probably run another rifle just for on swap runes. Did they just use rifle? I'm paired with gandarra but I haven't used this hybrid thief this matchup, but hybrid deadeyes I don't come across often unless it was a similar build to boots bad build (immob monster and does about 10k dj, I'm assuming this is carrion+adventure runes maybe), but haven't seen anything similar to mine yet. Mine loads everything in first few seconds, but done in a manner to make the enemy waste condi clear and loading stuff on top that cannot be cleared easily and if I want I can finish with DJ, trb or skirmishers shot and my rotation is easily chained back to the beginning for an almost non stop assault. It's not meant for outnumbered though. Almost all my ini is mainly reserved for deaths retreat though, I don't actually attack with my rifle much at all and the only time I ever swapped to my DD set was only for cloak and dagger for stomps. If you come across another hybrid deadeye I'd be interested to know what they run as I'm not sure what current builds you've been seeing proliferating. I mostly see the one that hizen is responsible for lol. Now I'm going to have to look for some deso deadeyes hehe

  • Israel.7056Israel.7056 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Personally I like full tb rev with dura runes for pretty much everything give it a try I never play anything else anymore.

  • I advice you to not focus on stuff like armor, it's useless in this oneshot meta. Unless you're specifically dueling, you want the most dmg and crit dmg your class can achieve. Once, I got oneshot trough 26k health and 2.6k armor from dagger Deadeye in stealth. Ever since then, I'm running fullzerk Spellbreaker with Agility+Severance sigils that is capable of achieving 90%+ crit chance and 240%+ crit dmg with just food and right timing. They say offense is the best defense, and I can 100% approve that.

  • babazhook.6805babazhook.6805 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    Yeah this past two days of roaming after reset are really a pain, matched up with Gankdara and Ganksolation servers.

    It's a constant gank by 5 plus people vs me.

    As soon as I find a fair 1vs1 and I am about to win, literally out of nowhere appears a trash ganker who +1 the fight and kill me.

    The majority are oneshot deadeyes, who just root me and oneshot me with DJ or MB, sometimes reacting fast I can tp to them, reveal them and oneshot them too, but the good ones just run the remove reveal elite, so it is useless.

    Power mirages never oneshot me 100-0, because I can evade their burst better since it's kinda telegraphed, it is still a cheesy build abused by noobs who wants easy kills, but yeah nothing new under the sun.

    Condi mirages are way more present and more cancerous.

    Soulbeasts are another plague too, 90% of them +1 you at 1800 range or use a kitten boon easy mode build and you can't win.

    50% are deadeyes, 20% noobeasts, 25% memsers and the rest 5% just normal roaming builds.

    Even spellbreaker is a fair build compared to those cheesy lame builds.

    So yeah, from what I learnt toughness won't help in outnumbers against decent players anyway, so better just go full damage and playing more high risk and aggressive.

    And which class do you play?

    Playing power herald staff + sword/sword, I have 82 hours on the profession only.

    I run Marauder weapons and armor with dura runes and full zerk trinkets and backpiece, I have about 2450 armor, I was wondering if add toughness trinkets like cavs, but it doesn't seems it makes a big difference, having 3k or 2.5k armor is useless against those deadeyes, soulbeasts and other heavy power builds.

    with a little armor+hp etc. you will be able to survive the 'malicious backstab out of nowhere'. after that its a question if your possibly superior skill is enough to offset the possible difference in buildquality for that fight. but as said above that is only possible if you assume them to be bad to begin with.

    Dunno, i was running 3.2k armor and a full malice backstab, maybe this guy was full zerk scholar rune, got me for 23k crit... so it's useless.

    yes a full malice backstab but that is not out of nowhere. or i havent figured how to instantly build 7 malice without the target noticing, got to wait for the next hizen guide i guess...

    Well, but playing deadeye yourself, you should know you can build malice pretty easily right? And then dodge spam perma stealth without counterplay?

    I revealed him andhe used elite and so it was useless, so I gave up the fight and walked away and boom 23k malicious backstab.

    Wonder why 90% of players in wvw are deadeyes right now.

    On desolation right now there is a new trend, seems a condi hybrid deadeye, he landed on me like 10k DJ but i gave me also confusion torment immob and 10 stacks of poison who destroyed me in few seconds.

    It's becoming a pretty cancerous build abused by literally every noobs.

    The different is, against noobs you have a chance at killing them because they do mistakes, against a good opponent he won't die unless he want to.

    I know you wanna defende your profession you are having fun with, but I would appreciate honesty more instead.

    One of the builds I run on one of my characters is a hybrid deadeye from POF launch and it is one of the more potent effective builds but mine comes at a price for loading that much dmg, if that person has a similar build to mine then they only have one or no stun breaks and it relies heavily on deaths retreat. I actually don't use secondary weapon much at all, but could probably run another rifle just for on swap runes. Did they just use rifle? I'm paired with gandarra but I haven't used this hybrid thief this matchup, but hybrid deadeyes I don't come across often unless it was a similar build to boots bad build (immob monster and does about 10k dj, I'm assuming this is carrion+adventure runes maybe), but haven't seen anything similar to mine yet. Mine loads everything in first few seconds, but done in a manner to make the enemy waste condi clear and loading stuff on top that cannot be cleared easily and if I want I can finish with DJ, trb or skirmishers shot and my rotation is easily chained back to the beginning for an almost non stop assault. It's not meant for outnumbered though. Almost all my ini is mainly reserved for deaths retreat though, I don't actually attack with my rifle much at all and the only time I ever swapped to my DD set was only for cloak and dagger for stomps. If you come across another hybrid deadeye I'd be interested to know what they run as I'm not sure what current builds you've been seeing proliferating. I mostly see the one that hizen is responsible for lol. Now I'm going to have to look for some deso deadeyes hehe

    I am running hybrid DE with Grievers using P/d. SB is off hand. Shadowstrike works much like Deaths retreat albeit hits harder and applies more conditions. After malice build I try and do sneak attack for the power damage + torment/bleeds. I found with rifle if one not using Venoms the only Condi add is via an Immob via panic strike and as far iwas concerned that still more a power build.

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @babazhook.6805 said:

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    Yeah this past two days of roaming after reset are really a pain, matched up with Gankdara and Ganksolation servers.

    It's a constant gank by 5 plus people vs me.

    As soon as I find a fair 1vs1 and I am about to win, literally out of nowhere appears a trash ganker who +1 the fight and kill me.

    The majority are oneshot deadeyes, who just root me and oneshot me with DJ or MB, sometimes reacting fast I can tp to them, reveal them and oneshot them too, but the good ones just run the remove reveal elite, so it is useless.

    Power mirages never oneshot me 100-0, because I can evade their burst better since it's kinda telegraphed, it is still a cheesy build abused by noobs who wants easy kills, but yeah nothing new under the sun.

    Condi mirages are way more present and more cancerous.

    Soulbeasts are another plague too, 90% of them +1 you at 1800 range or use a kitten boon easy mode build and you can't win.

    50% are deadeyes, 20% noobeasts, 25% memsers and the rest 5% just normal roaming builds.

    Even spellbreaker is a fair build compared to those cheesy lame builds.

    So yeah, from what I learnt toughness won't help in outnumbers against decent players anyway, so better just go full damage and playing more high risk and aggressive.

    And which class do you play?

    Playing power herald staff + sword/sword, I have 82 hours on the profession only.

    I run Marauder weapons and armor with dura runes and full zerk trinkets and backpiece, I have about 2450 armor, I was wondering if add toughness trinkets like cavs, but it doesn't seems it makes a big difference, having 3k or 2.5k armor is useless against those deadeyes, soulbeasts and other heavy power builds.

    with a little armor+hp etc. you will be able to survive the 'malicious backstab out of nowhere'. after that its a question if your possibly superior skill is enough to offset the possible difference in buildquality for that fight. but as said above that is only possible if you assume them to be bad to begin with.

    Dunno, i was running 3.2k armor and a full malice backstab, maybe this guy was full zerk scholar rune, got me for 23k crit... so it's useless.

    yes a full malice backstab but that is not out of nowhere. or i havent figured how to instantly build 7 malice without the target noticing, got to wait for the next hizen guide i guess...

    Well, but playing deadeye yourself, you should know you can build malice pretty easily right? And then dodge spam perma stealth without counterplay?

    I revealed him andhe used elite and so it was useless, so I gave up the fight and walked away and boom 23k malicious backstab.

    Wonder why 90% of players in wvw are deadeyes right now.

    On desolation right now there is a new trend, seems a condi hybrid deadeye, he landed on me like 10k DJ but i gave me also confusion torment immob and 10 stacks of poison who destroyed me in few seconds.

    It's becoming a pretty cancerous build abused by literally every noobs.

    The different is, against noobs you have a chance at killing them because they do mistakes, against a good opponent he won't die unless he want to.

    I know you wanna defende your profession you are having fun with, but I would appreciate honesty more instead.

    One of the builds I run on one of my characters is a hybrid deadeye from POF launch and it is one of the more potent effective builds but mine comes at a price for loading that much dmg, if that person has a similar build to mine then they only have one or no stun breaks and it relies heavily on deaths retreat. I actually don't use secondary weapon much at all, but could probably run another rifle just for on swap runes. Did they just use rifle? I'm paired with gandarra but I haven't used this hybrid thief this matchup, but hybrid deadeyes I don't come across often unless it was a similar build to boots bad build (immob monster and does about 10k dj, I'm assuming this is carrion+adventure runes maybe), but haven't seen anything similar to mine yet. Mine loads everything in first few seconds, but done in a manner to make the enemy waste condi clear and loading stuff on top that cannot be cleared easily and if I want I can finish with DJ, trb or skirmishers shot and my rotation is easily chained back to the beginning for an almost non stop assault. It's not meant for outnumbered though. Almost all my ini is mainly reserved for deaths retreat though, I don't actually attack with my rifle much at all and the only time I ever swapped to my DD set was only for cloak and dagger for stomps. If you come across another hybrid deadeye I'd be interested to know what they run as I'm not sure what current builds you've been seeing proliferating. I mostly see the one that hizen is responsible for lol. Now I'm going to have to look for some deso deadeyes hehe

    I am running hybrid DE with Grievers using P/d. SB is off hand. Shadowstrike works much like Deaths retreat albeit hits harder and applies more conditions. After malice build I try and do sneak attack for the power damage + torment/bleeds. I found with rifle if one not using Venoms the only Condi add is via an Immob via panic strike and as far iwas concerned that still more a power build.

    I'm going to have to try this - I know you've been using pd for a long time but that is the only set I have not spent much time on, I think the last time was maybe early 2k16. I think you've posted your build before if I'm not mistaken, but if you don't mind would you be able to message it to me or something or just a general idea of what the build is like and what stats to aim for? I'm interested in trying different stuff. I'd like to do something that doesn't make me rely on rifle, but I still think I would have to take it just for mobility and strangely enough, snipers cover.

  • syszery.1592syszery.1592 Member ✭✭✭

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    But nobody can win a 1v2 "unless you get one lucky surprise kill on one of the two guys and then fight the other one." <--- Quoting myself, this is doable by mirage.

    Thanks for your constructing post. Now you can get out out of here thanks.

    Why should I? Just because you don't agree with my opinion?

    In WvW there were always classes (or builds) that do better in roaming and others that simply don't. And your Revenant is for sure one of the better performing classes.

    Shatter Mesmer one-shotted you already in core if you were unlucky and perma-stealth Deadeye is very annoying, I agree. But your Soulbeast problem is seriously a lern to play issue...

  • babazhook.6805babazhook.6805 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:

    @babazhook.6805 said:

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    Yeah this past two days of roaming after reset are really a pain, matched up with Gankdara and Ganksolation servers.

    It's a constant gank by 5 plus people vs me.

    As soon as I find a fair 1vs1 and I am about to win, literally out of nowhere appears a trash ganker who +1 the fight and kill me.

    The majority are oneshot deadeyes, who just root me and oneshot me with DJ or MB, sometimes reacting fast I can tp to them, reveal them and oneshot them too, but the good ones just run the remove reveal elite, so it is useless.

    Power mirages never oneshot me 100-0, because I can evade their burst better since it's kinda telegraphed, it is still a cheesy build abused by noobs who wants easy kills, but yeah nothing new under the sun.

    Condi mirages are way more present and more cancerous.

    Soulbeasts are another plague too, 90% of them +1 you at 1800 range or use a kitten boon easy mode build and you can't win.

    50% are deadeyes, 20% noobeasts, 25% memsers and the rest 5% just normal roaming builds.

    Even spellbreaker is a fair build compared to those cheesy lame builds.

    So yeah, from what I learnt toughness won't help in outnumbers against decent players anyway, so better just go full damage and playing more high risk and aggressive.

    And which class do you play?

    Playing power herald staff + sword/sword, I have 82 hours on the profession only.

    I run Marauder weapons and armor with dura runes and full zerk trinkets and backpiece, I have about 2450 armor, I was wondering if add toughness trinkets like cavs, but it doesn't seems it makes a big difference, having 3k or 2.5k armor is useless against those deadeyes, soulbeasts and other heavy power builds.

    with a little armor+hp etc. you will be able to survive the 'malicious backstab out of nowhere'. after that its a question if your possibly superior skill is enough to offset the possible difference in buildquality for that fight. but as said above that is only possible if you assume them to be bad to begin with.

    Dunno, i was running 3.2k armor and a full malice backstab, maybe this guy was full zerk scholar rune, got me for 23k crit... so it's useless.

    yes a full malice backstab but that is not out of nowhere. or i havent figured how to instantly build 7 malice without the target noticing, got to wait for the next hizen guide i guess...

    Well, but playing deadeye yourself, you should know you can build malice pretty easily right? And then dodge spam perma stealth without counterplay?

    I revealed him andhe used elite and so it was useless, so I gave up the fight and walked away and boom 23k malicious backstab.

    Wonder why 90% of players in wvw are deadeyes right now.

    On desolation right now there is a new trend, seems a condi hybrid deadeye, he landed on me like 10k DJ but i gave me also confusion torment immob and 10 stacks of poison who destroyed me in few seconds.

    It's becoming a pretty cancerous build abused by literally every noobs.

    The different is, against noobs you have a chance at killing them because they do mistakes, against a good opponent he won't die unless he want to.

    I know you wanna defende your profession you are having fun with, but I would appreciate honesty more instead.

    One of the builds I run on one of my characters is a hybrid deadeye from POF launch and it is one of the more potent effective builds but mine comes at a price for loading that much dmg, if that person has a similar build to mine then they only have one or no stun breaks and it relies heavily on deaths retreat. I actually don't use secondary weapon much at all, but could probably run another rifle just for on swap runes. Did they just use rifle? I'm paired with gandarra but I haven't used this hybrid thief this matchup, but hybrid deadeyes I don't come across often unless it was a similar build to boots bad build (immob monster and does about 10k dj, I'm assuming this is carrion+adventure runes maybe), but haven't seen anything similar to mine yet. Mine loads everything in first few seconds, but done in a manner to make the enemy waste condi clear and loading stuff on top that cannot be cleared easily and if I want I can finish with DJ, trb or skirmishers shot and my rotation is easily chained back to the beginning for an almost non stop assault. It's not meant for outnumbered though. Almost all my ini is mainly reserved for deaths retreat though, I don't actually attack with my rifle much at all and the only time I ever swapped to my DD set was only for cloak and dagger for stomps. If you come across another hybrid deadeye I'd be interested to know what they run as I'm not sure what current builds you've been seeing proliferating. I mostly see the one that hizen is responsible for lol. Now I'm going to have to look for some deso deadeyes hehe

    I am running hybrid DE with Grievers using P/d. SB is off hand. Shadowstrike works much like Deaths retreat albeit hits harder and applies more conditions. After malice build I try and do sneak attack for the power damage + torment/bleeds. I found with rifle if one not using Venoms the only Condi add is via an Immob via panic strike and as far iwas concerned that still more a power build.

    I'm going to have to try this - I know you've been using pd for a long time but that is the only set I have not spent much time on, I think the last time was maybe early 2k16. I think you've posted your build before if I'm not mistaken, but if you don't mind would you be able to message it to me or something or just a general idea of what the build is like and what stats to aim for? I'm interested in trying different stuff. I'd like to do something that doesn't make me rely on rifle, but I still think I would have to take it just for mobility and strangely enough, snipers cover.

    Rifle can certainly be used in lieu of SB. The Build is fragile when compared to others so you have to be able to use resources to defend yourself. . Keep in mind I still "experiment" with it trying to determine the rune and combo of stats that work best. Currently it at around 2240 power base , 1440 condition base , 17400 health base , 39 percent crit base and 185 ferocity base. This is using a DA/CS/De loadout which I have just started on to see if I can manage the all in on damage approach. (armor is 2230)
    There no durations of any type in the build for conditions.

    Now I only recently went the CS route using all other lines prior in place of it outside Acro each having their own advantages. My Gut feel is that it was better overall with the TR line just for BA as that confusion really was useful as a defensive tool added to the damage. SA was just better survival wise. If I go back to TR or SA i will use wurm runes.

    I think the numbers you should shoot for are around 2200 power 1400 condition 40 percent precision with 16K+ health and 180 plus ferocity. Getting Might to stack is key and while you can do do with rifle , I found when you did that you just burn off the INI for power attacks. I also think DA is needed along with Improv. Mercy should always be on toolbar . It hard to get those numbers precisely with your gear comboes but get as close as possible. If you sacrifice too too much in any of them you might as well stick with a power load or condition load.

  • None. Someone with sentinel or Nomad gear and and all sorts of passive life-saving traits and survival skills can still be quickly taken down in no time. If the first hit fails, they will just go into stealth, wait for recharges and do it again before survival skills and traits recharge.

    To survive in roaming, either use sneaky builds too, get people for a small roaming party, or play late at night when most people is sleeping.

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @babazhook.6805 said:

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:

    @babazhook.6805 said:

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    Yeah this past two days of roaming after reset are really a pain, matched up with Gankdara and Ganksolation servers.

    It's a constant gank by 5 plus people vs me.

    As soon as I find a fair 1vs1 and I am about to win, literally out of nowhere appears a trash ganker who +1 the fight and kill me.

    The majority are oneshot deadeyes, who just root me and oneshot me with DJ or MB, sometimes reacting fast I can tp to them, reveal them and oneshot them too, but the good ones just run the remove reveal elite, so it is useless.

    Power mirages never oneshot me 100-0, because I can evade their burst better since it's kinda telegraphed, it is still a cheesy build abused by noobs who wants easy kills, but yeah nothing new under the sun.

    Condi mirages are way more present and more cancerous.

    Soulbeasts are another plague too, 90% of them +1 you at 1800 range or use a kitten boon easy mode build and you can't win.

    50% are deadeyes, 20% noobeasts, 25% memsers and the rest 5% just normal roaming builds.

    Even spellbreaker is a fair build compared to those cheesy lame builds.

    So yeah, from what I learnt toughness won't help in outnumbers against decent players anyway, so better just go full damage and playing more high risk and aggressive.

    And which class do you play?

    Playing power herald staff + sword/sword, I have 82 hours on the profession only.

    I run Marauder weapons and armor with dura runes and full zerk trinkets and backpiece, I have about 2450 armor, I was wondering if add toughness trinkets like cavs, but it doesn't seems it makes a big difference, having 3k or 2.5k armor is useless against those deadeyes, soulbeasts and other heavy power builds.

    with a little armor+hp etc. you will be able to survive the 'malicious backstab out of nowhere'. after that its a question if your possibly superior skill is enough to offset the possible difference in buildquality for that fight. but as said above that is only possible if you assume them to be bad to begin with.

    Dunno, i was running 3.2k armor and a full malice backstab, maybe this guy was full zerk scholar rune, got me for 23k crit... so it's useless.

    yes a full malice backstab but that is not out of nowhere. or i havent figured how to instantly build 7 malice without the target noticing, got to wait for the next hizen guide i guess...

    Well, but playing deadeye yourself, you should know you can build malice pretty easily right? And then dodge spam perma stealth without counterplay?

    I revealed him andhe used elite and so it was useless, so I gave up the fight and walked away and boom 23k malicious backstab.

    Wonder why 90% of players in wvw are deadeyes right now.

    On desolation right now there is a new trend, seems a condi hybrid deadeye, he landed on me like 10k DJ but i gave me also confusion torment immob and 10 stacks of poison who destroyed me in few seconds.

    It's becoming a pretty cancerous build abused by literally every noobs.

    The different is, against noobs you have a chance at killing them because they do mistakes, against a good opponent he won't die unless he want to.

    I know you wanna defende your profession you are having fun with, but I would appreciate honesty more instead.

    One of the builds I run on one of my characters is a hybrid deadeye from POF launch and it is one of the more potent effective builds but mine comes at a price for loading that much dmg, if that person has a similar build to mine then they only have one or no stun breaks and it relies heavily on deaths retreat. I actually don't use secondary weapon much at all, but could probably run another rifle just for on swap runes. Did they just use rifle? I'm paired with gandarra but I haven't used this hybrid thief this matchup, but hybrid deadeyes I don't come across often unless it was a similar build to boots bad build (immob monster and does about 10k dj, I'm assuming this is carrion+adventure runes maybe), but haven't seen anything similar to mine yet. Mine loads everything in first few seconds, but done in a manner to make the enemy waste condi clear and loading stuff on top that cannot be cleared easily and if I want I can finish with DJ, trb or skirmishers shot and my rotation is easily chained back to the beginning for an almost non stop assault. It's not meant for outnumbered though. Almost all my ini is mainly reserved for deaths retreat though, I don't actually attack with my rifle much at all and the only time I ever swapped to my DD set was only for cloak and dagger for stomps. If you come across another hybrid deadeye I'd be interested to know what they run as I'm not sure what current builds you've been seeing proliferating. I mostly see the one that hizen is responsible for lol. Now I'm going to have to look for some deso deadeyes hehe

    I am running hybrid DE with Grievers using P/d. SB is off hand. Shadowstrike works much like Deaths retreat albeit hits harder and applies more conditions. After malice build I try and do sneak attack for the power damage + torment/bleeds. I found with rifle if one not using Venoms the only Condi add is via an Immob via panic strike and as far iwas concerned that still more a power build.

    I'm going to have to try this - I know you've been using pd for a long time but that is the only set I have not spent much time on, I think the last time was maybe early 2k16. I think you've posted your build before if I'm not mistaken, but if you don't mind would you be able to message it to me or something or just a general idea of what the build is like and what stats to aim for? I'm interested in trying different stuff. I'd like to do something that doesn't make me rely on rifle, but I still think I would have to take it just for mobility and strangely enough, snipers cover.

    Rifle can certainly be used in lieu of SB. The Build is fragile when compared to others so you have to be able to use resources to defend yourself. . Keep in mind I still "experiment" with it trying to determine the rune and combo of stats that work best. Currently it at around 2240 power base , 1440 condition base , 17400 health base , 39 percent crit base and 185 ferocity base. This is using a DA/CS/De loadout which I have just started on to see if I can manage the all in on damage approach. (armor is 2230)
    There no durations of any type in the build for conditions.

    Now I only recently went the CS route using all other lines prior in place of it outside Acro each having their own advantages. My Gut feel is that it was better overall with the TR line just for BA as that confusion really was useful as a defensive tool added to the damage. SA was just better survival wise. If I go back to TR or SA i will use wurm runes.

    I think the numbers you should shoot for are around 2200 power 1400 condition 40 percent precision with 16K+ health and 180 plus ferocity. Getting Might to stack is key and while you can do do with rifle , I found when you did that you just burn off the INI for power attacks. I also think DA is needed along with Improv. Mercy should always be on toolbar . It hard to get those numbers precisely with your gear comboes but get as close as possible. If you sacrifice too too much in any of them you might as well stick with a power load or condition load.

    Thanks, I'll see if I can get this working out for me. For the moment I'll have to get used to the fun of the weaponset, and if I get better I might be using it more regularly. I am pretty sure you probably surprise people when you use it because it is so rare out there, at least in my encounters. I think for the most part I'll be doing changes on the fly depending on encounter, which I find is a big benefit. Looking at the stats, for me as long as power was over 2.1k and condi dmg was above 1.1k it would suffice so long as I could put enough pressure with covering condi's and a few hits here n there. Definitely got a lot of ideas here, thanks again.

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