The only wish I have about raids — Guild Wars 2 Forums

The only wish I have about raids

I have a dream....that one day the other classes will be as good and efficient and desired in raids as mesmer has been since HOT was introduced. We have:

  • one elite spec that can keep both quickness and alactrity up for everyone, while giving them other boons...oh mama, this is nice, 100% perfect support/buffer
  • one elite spec that got the top numbers as the best condi dps and can dodge without even moving, so his rotation is not affectet

We have one class that can both fill the ranks of top supporter, tank and top condi dps.
But what do mesmer lacks and needs? Here we go (sarcasm alert):

  • one spec that can heal everyone like no druid ever dreamed of doing it
  • one spec that can power dps like no warrior or guard ever tried......one class that would beat Goku's power level (he is 150.000.000 in Super sayan form)
  • one spec that has 1% with every hit to insta kill

Mesmer does not follow the meta, he is the meta!

Comments

  • Hoodie.1045Hoodie.1045 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daniel.5428 said:

    • one elite spec that got the top numbers as the best condi dps and can dodge without even moving, so his rotation is not affectet

    Core engineer should've been the best candidate for this. Unfortunately, ArenaNet nerfed Thermal Vision from 10% to 5% in the recent balance patch because they thought that it would be too powerful and further proving how much they hate the profession. Little do they know that core engineer is rarely seen in raids and core engineer mains like myself have to work five times harder than anyone else in order to be on par with everyone else.

    Core engineers are almost never wanted in raids because Holosmith is easier to play and better. It should be the other way around; Holosmith is easier to play, but not as effective as core engineer and Scrapper and core engineer is better than Holosmith in every way possible.

    Karras The Engineer

  • Daniel.5428Daniel.5428 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 19, 2018

    I agree with you here. As a person who've been playing engi only (I have a druid, warr and guard for raids) for the last 5 years, I really loved condi engi and most of my raid bosses as dps were killed on condi engi. But now I play Holo, for the solo reason that is more faster for the simple pve content (story, AP farm etc.). Since HoC nobody wanted me as condi engi so I started raiding as holo too. But my point here was different. You will see raids without thieves, without necroes, without engies, without guards but you will never see a raid without at least 2 mesmers. A guy from the guild Lucky Noobs (who already killed all 3 bosses from the new wing and posted youtube videos) told me that one of their groups did the Largos twins(you have 2 mins to phase the boss or wipe) 2 minutes faster than their main with their mirage-only group because of their huge damage output.

    Link to the video with comments:

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I thought power chrono dps was pretty good only problem is people want support chrono not damage ones.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 19, 2018

    @Daniel.5428 said:

    I have a dream....that one day the other classes will be as good and efficient and desired in raids as mesmer has been since HOT was introduced. We have:

    • one elite spec that can keep both quickness and alactrity up for everyone, while giving them other boons...oh mama, this is nice, 100% perfect support/buffer

    Agreed, they need to introduce more pure boon support specs ideally with 100% uptime on alacrity and quickness.

    @Daniel.5428 said:

    • one elite spec that got the top numbers as the best condi dps and can dodge without even moving, so his rotation is not affectet

    Yes major concern, how long do balance patches last? 3 months until the top dps spot gets reshuffled?

    How is power Holo at the moment? Enjoying having taken all them Weaver spots in raids?

    @Daniel.5428 said:
    We have one class that can both fill the ranks of top supporter, tank and top condi dps.

    There is better tanks in game than chrono. It's just that chrono can support and tank which makes it great at doing that job.

    @Daniel.5428 said:
    But what do mesmer lacks and needs? Here we go (sarcasm alert):

    • one spec that can heal everyone like no druid ever dreamed of doing it

    Druids are the worst healers out of all the healer builds from a pure heal output (and it's not even close how bad they are), not sure why you would want to top them? Let's aim for the top spots of heal Renegade or heal tempest if we are aiming for overpowered healing shall we?

    @Daniel.5428 said:

    • one spec that can power dps like no warrior or guard ever tried......one class that would beat Goku's power level (he is 150.000.000 in Super sayan form)

    Are we only considering most recent balance patches? Why not top weaver/tempest power dps which was top spot for over 2 years? Why only focus on the short term and not long term? If we are going to hyperbole let's do it right.

    @Daniel.5428 said:

    • one spec that has 1% with every hit to insta kill

    You mean like the bugged thief builds which were able to solo Dhuum and other bosses until the bug was fixed? Was already done, Arenanet decided to nerf it.

    @Daniel.5428 said:

    Mesmer does not follow the meta, he is the meta!

    Actually the meta is and always has been maximum damage which so far has always required quickness, alacrity, might and fury. Two of those 2 chronos have been excelling at providing while there has been no alternatives provided that is all.

  • I wish that the raid community would open thier arms to noobs. Seems more and more raiders are driving themselves further away from everyone else. You are not helping your cause by pushing them away. I get it some people are bad but there are many who do want to learn but that im better and your kitten attitude is just ridiculous and makes them not want to try. Dont forget we all started at being kitten.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Magnus Godrik.5841 said:
    I wish that the raid community would open thier arms to noobs. Seems more and more raiders are driving themselves further away from everyone else. You are not helping your cause by pushing them away. I get it some people are bad but there are many who do want to learn but that im better and your kitten attitude is just ridiculous and makes them not want to try. Dont forget we all started at being kitten.

    What more then the numbers of training runs that are already being done do you guys want?
    If your asking for 8-9 experienced raiders to carry you through raids then pay for it, you wont learn much that way anyway.

  • @Daniel.5428 said:
    you do not get insulted.

    I guess you´ve never seen a Meta Event fail?

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Magnus Godrik.5841 said:
    I wish that the raid community would open thier arms to noobs. Seems more and more raiders are driving themselves further away from everyone else. You are not helping your cause by pushing them away. I get it some people are bad but there are many who do want to learn but that im better and your kitten attitude is just ridiculous and makes them not want to try. Dont forget we all started at being kitten.

    There are training runs for that. You can't expect people to sacrifice their time (and likely clears) for your own convenience and leisure.

  • @Magnus Godrik.5841 said:
    I wish that the raid community would open thier arms to noobs. Seems more and more raiders are driving themselves further away from everyone else. You are not helping your cause by pushing them away. I get it some people are bad but there are many who do want to learn but that im better and your kitten attitude is just ridiculous and makes them not want to try. Dont forget we all started at being kitten.

    Theres tons of guild that do training run multiple times a week and even lfg trainings now and then with pugs. Theres more than enough opportunity to get into raiding if you really wanted to. Problem is too many people who try to start raiding dont even have an understanding of basic mechanics in this game like cc, and cant output more than 3k dps. I quit training people in raids because i got tired of having to spend 1 hr teaching ppl their rotations before we could even start the boss mechanics. People should at least know their class if they want to come to a raid.

    This is also why noone wants to join lfg trainings, and why they usually fail.

  • TexZero.7910TexZero.7910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Daniel.5428 said:

    @Magnus Godrik.5841 said:
    I wish that the raid community would open thier arms to noobs. Seems more and more raiders are driving themselves further away from everyone else. You are not helping your cause by pushing them away. I get it some people are bad but there are many who do want to learn but that im better and your kitten attitude is just ridiculous and makes them not want to try. Dont forget we all started at being kitten.

    The GW2 raid community is extremly toxic. GW2 raids are more like a business, most of the times you will see more sellers than actually LFG groups and some people on LFG just made brainless extreme demands like a guy who asked for 50+ Dhuum KP for a group on Largos or another group I've met were people were called idiots, baboons and kitten on every step. This game used to be cool, but the endgame is toxic now. From raids to fractals, pvp and even W3....pve open world is still ok, you do not get insulted.

    So you couldn't provide 50 Dhumm KP, big deal, then don't join his squad. Join a different one or make your own.

    The only one toxic in this situation is you for calling someone out on giving a specific quality to join his group. Is it over demanding? Maybe but that is not for you to decide but him. If no one joins him he will change his search parameters or not fill his squad.

    You have 0 right to some one else's squad. Just like no one should have any rights to your squad. Period.

    Keep on preachin'

    But like most parts of sermons, they will fall on deaf ears.

  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    @Daniel.5428 said:

    @Magnus Godrik.5841 said:
    I wish that the raid community would open thier arms to noobs. Seems more and more raiders are driving themselves further away from everyone else. You are not helping your cause by pushing them away. I get it some people are bad but there are many who do want to learn but that im better and your kitten attitude is just ridiculous and makes them not want to try. Dont forget we all started at being kitten.

    The GW2 raid community is extremly toxic. GW2 raids are more like a business, most of the times you will see more sellers than actually LFG groups and some people on LFG just made brainless extreme demands like a guy who asked for 50+ Dhuum KP for a group on Largos or another group I've met were people were called idiots, baboons and kitten on every step. This game used to be cool, but the endgame is toxic now. From raids to fractals, pvp and even W3....pve open world is still ok, you do not get insulted.

    And here I am, a pretty mediocre player who plays with friends every week and has fun succeeding at raids (video proof of my mediocrity: www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzOdIGPiGbE). I've said many times, don't pug. I feel like a lot of people on the forums scoff at this suggestion, but it truly is a different game when you play it with your friends instead of random pugs.

  • Daniel.5428Daniel.5428 Member ✭✭✭

    @thrag.9740 said:
    And here I am, a pretty mediocre player who plays with friends every week and has fun succeeding at raids (video proof of my mediocrity: www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzOdIGPiGbE). I've said many times, don't pug. I feel like a lot of people on the forums scoff at this suggestion, but it truly is a different game when you play it with your friends instead of random pugs.

    There is no purpose to the game mode if you cannot do it with the random ppl from the community. This is why it is called MMO, to do a lot of things with the other millions of people that play. Not everyone can bring 9 friends into the game just to do raids.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 26, 2018

    @Daniel.5428 said:

    @thrag.9740 said:
    And here I am, a pretty mediocre player who plays with friends every week and has fun succeeding at raids (video proof of my mediocrity: www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzOdIGPiGbE). I've said many times, don't pug. I feel like a lot of people on the forums scoff at this suggestion, but it truly is a different game when you play it with your friends instead of random pugs.

    There is no purpose to the game mode if you cannot do it with the random ppl from the community. This is why it is called MMO, to do a lot of things with the other millions of people that play. Not everyone can bring 9 friends into the game just to do raids.

    No but you can make 9 other people in game your friends you know socialising you should try it bud.
    They always said it from the start it was not supposed to be puged

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daniel.5428 said:

    @thrag.9740 said:
    And here I am, a pretty mediocre player who plays with friends every week and has fun succeeding at raids (video proof of my mediocrity: www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzOdIGPiGbE). I've said many times, don't pug. I feel like a lot of people on the forums scoff at this suggestion, but it truly is a different game when you play it with your friends instead of random pugs.

    There is no purpose to the game mode if you cannot do it with the random ppl from the community. This is why it is called MMO, to do a lot of things with the other millions of people that play. Not everyone can bring 9 friends into the game just to do raids.

    That's your opinion. There is just as much merit to the idea that people should form guilds and play with others on a consistent basis.

    Also your point is moot. PUG groups have cleared all raid content (CM Dhuum included) it just ends up to be more difficult due to the lack of consistency. It is doable though.

    You get to deicide how challenging you want to make raiding for yourself by joining a guild or not. There is no reason to balance around the social hermit who does not want to put enough effort in to overcome the increased difficulty when designing challenging content in a MMO.

  • Daniel.5428Daniel.5428 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Daniel.5428 said:

    @thrag.9740 said:
    And here I am, a pretty mediocre player who plays with friends every week and has fun succeeding at raids (video proof of my mediocrity: www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzOdIGPiGbE). I've said many times, don't pug. I feel like a lot of people on the forums scoff at this suggestion, but it truly is a different game when you play it with your friends instead of random pugs.

    There is no purpose to the game mode if you cannot do it with the random ppl from the community. This is why it is called MMO, to do a lot of things with the other millions of people that play. Not everyone can bring 9 friends into the game just to do raids.

    That's your opinion. There is just as much merit to the idea that people should form guilds and play with others on a consistent basis.

    Also your point is moot. PUG groups have cleared all raid content (CM Dhuum included) it just ends up to be more difficult due to the lack of consistency. It is doable though.

    You get to deicide how challenging you want to make raiding for yourself by joining a guild or not. There is no reason to balance around the social hermit who does not want to put enough effort in to overcome the increased difficulty when designing challenging content in a MMO.

    I've cleared all raids with pugs only too. But still I don't feel any achi. The raid system is just basic and elementary. And the fashion wars is stronger than ever. Do all the possible challenges in a raid for.....a chair.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daniel.5428 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Daniel.5428 said:

    @thrag.9740 said:
    And here I am, a pretty mediocre player who plays with friends every week and has fun succeeding at raids (video proof of my mediocrity: www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzOdIGPiGbE). I've said many times, don't pug. I feel like a lot of people on the forums scoff at this suggestion, but it truly is a different game when you play it with your friends instead of random pugs.

    There is no purpose to the game mode if you cannot do it with the random ppl from the community. This is why it is called MMO, to do a lot of things with the other millions of people that play. Not everyone can bring 9 friends into the game just to do raids.

    That's your opinion. There is just as much merit to the idea that people should form guilds and play with others on a consistent basis.

    Also your point is moot. PUG groups have cleared all raid content (CM Dhuum included) it just ends up to be more difficult due to the lack of consistency. It is doable though.

    You get to deicide how challenging you want to make raiding for yourself by joining a guild or not. There is no reason to balance around the social hermit who does not want to put enough effort in to overcome the increased difficulty when designing challenging content in a MMO.

    I've cleared all raids with pugs only too. But still I don't feel any achi. The raid system is just basic and elementary. And the fashion wars is stronger than ever. Do all the possible challenges in a raid for.....a chair.

    That's a question of reward balance though isn't it? Not difficulty balance.

    Sure one could discuss how rewarding raids should be and if the rewards merit the time investment. I do believe there might be a lot of pushback on that issue from non raid players.

    Again, different issue and not directly related to difficulty balance.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daniel.5428 said:
    There is no purpose to the game mode if you cannot do it with the random ppl from the community. This is why it is called MMO, to do a lot of things with the other millions of people that play. Not everyone can bring 9 friends into the game just to do raids.

    See how well playing with randoms works in PVP. No identity, no socializing, just press a button, get some randoms in your teams and as enemies, then come on the forums and complain about balance and matchmaking. And all this because that game mode is built around playing it with random ppl from the community. One could argue that this is true for the rest of the open world too.

    As for your last part, you don't bring 9 friends just to do Raids, if these "friends" are there only to help you clear Raids then I don't think they are actually your friends to begin with.

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 26, 2018

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Daniel.5428 said:

    @thrag.9740 said:
    And here I am, a pretty mediocre player who plays with friends every week and has fun succeeding at raids (video proof of my mediocrity: www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzOdIGPiGbE). I've said many times, don't pug. I feel like a lot of people on the forums scoff at this suggestion, but it truly is a different game when you play it with your friends instead of random pugs.

    There is no purpose to the game mode if you cannot do it with the random ppl from the community. This is why it is called MMO, to do a lot of things with the other millions of people that play. Not everyone can bring 9 friends into the game just to do raids.

    No but you can make 9 other people in game your friends you know socialising you should try it bud.
    They always said it from the start it was not supposed to be puged

    I wish I can make the other 9ppl in EU play at my play time. I don't have many variable to choose from. hence I can only pug. I am an oceanic player with an EU guild to manage since gw1.
    Don't forget many others also have different shift work making joining a static group not possible. Pug isn't bad, just have to grow a thicker skin and put up with many very mean people.

    Death is Energy [DIE] in EU
    Envoy's Herald, CoZ, VitV, DD, SS, The Eternal, LNHB, Champion Magus, Champion Phantom, Wondrous Achiever etc.

  • Daniel.5428Daniel.5428 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    That's a question of reward balance though isn't it? Not difficulty balance.

    Sure one could discuss how rewarding raids should be and if the rewards merit the time investment. I do believe there might be a lot of pushback on that issue from non raid players.

    Again, different issue and not directly related to difficulty balance.

    I never said that raids are difficult. I complained about the lacking of balanced classe. I had to create additional classes like druid and mesmer just to get a bigger chance to take part in raids because Anet, who bragged about non-trinity, went straight into the heart of trinity. The rewards are not bad either, I enjoy the ascended gear, but that chair is stupid. Until now most of the novelties were gem-store items, now they are introducing them as end-game hard content reward? It just turns the game more fashion based. Even the collections from this episodes make you farm a lot and spend over 100g (that idiot Sigil of Nullification) for a set of shiny armor skin because nobody does so much for an exotic set.

  • Daniel.5428Daniel.5428 Member ✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    See how well playing with randoms works in PVP. No identity, no socializing, just press a button, get some randoms in your teams and as enemies, then come on the forums and complain about balance and matchmaking. And all this because that game mode is built around playing it with random ppl from the community. One could argue that this is true for the rest of the open world too.
    As for your last part, you don't bring 9 friends just to do Raids, if these "friends" are there only to help you clear Raids then I don't think they are actually your friends to begin with.

    PVP should be only with strangers or you risk to have ppl grouping in huge teams and become LB barons. I would not even let them play ranked as a team. Look at raids. We have groups of ppl with over 10.000 gold from selling bosses. They don't even accept gold anymore, they work only with MF coins. That's why the price does not drop because the MF coin is the new raid sellers' currency: time-gates, needed for a lot of end-game gear(legendary)....perfec to create GW2 barons.

  • Raizel.8175Raizel.8175 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zombyturtle.5980 said:

    @Magnus Godrik.5841 said:
    I wish that the raid community would open thier arms to noobs. Seems more and more raiders are driving themselves further away from everyone else. You are not helping your cause by pushing them away. I get it some people are bad but there are many who do want to learn but that im better and your kitten attitude is just ridiculous and makes them not want to try. Dont forget we all started at being kitten.

    Theres tons of guild that do training run multiple times a week and even lfg trainings now and then with pugs. Theres more than enough opportunity to get into raiding if you really wanted to. Problem is too many people who try to start raiding dont even have an understanding of basic mechanics in this game like cc, and cant output more than 3k dps. I quit training people in raids because i got tired of having to spend 1 hr teaching ppl their rotations before we could even start the boss mechanics. People should at least know their class if they want to come to a raid.

    This is also why noone wants to join lfg trainings, and why they usually fail.

    Most training-guilds/communities are invisible to the general playerbase since the LFG just isn't sufficient and there are no decent guild-advertisement-systems/a decent guild-browser in GW2. As long as these guilds and communities aren't visible, they may as well not even exist in the first place. The problem doesn't end here anyway. It's quite common in MMORPGs that "not so good" players keep other "not so good" players down while good players push other good players due to how PvE is generally designed - that's even more true in GW2 due to mechanics like phasing etc. That's why you always want a good mix of player-types if you want to create a healthy MMORPG. The abuse of the LI/LD/KP-system though (which is erecting an unhealthy darwinistic hierarchy) keeps people who're interested in raids down. The chances to rise and get better are rather low compared to other, more healthy MMORPGs. This is especially true for people who are new to raids or returned after some time of absence since the LI/LD/KP-demands are constantly rising. Even veteran raiders with 1k+ LI admit that the demands reached grotesque and very unhealthy dimensions.

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Daniel.5428 said:

    @thrag.9740 said:
    And here I am, a pretty mediocre player who plays with friends every week and has fun succeeding at raids (video proof of my mediocrity: www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzOdIGPiGbE). I've said many times, don't pug. I feel like a lot of people on the forums scoff at this suggestion, but it truly is a different game when you play it with your friends instead of random pugs.

    There is no purpose to the game mode if you cannot do it with the random ppl from the community. This is why it is called MMO, to do a lot of things with the other millions of people that play. Not everyone can bring 9 friends into the game just to do raids.

    No but you can make 9 other people in game your friends you know socialising you should try it bud.
    They always said it from the start it was not supposed to be puged
    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Daniel.5428 said:

    @thrag.9740 said:
    And here I am, a pretty mediocre player who plays with friends every week and has fun succeeding at raids (video proof of my mediocrity: www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzOdIGPiGbE). I've said many times, don't pug. I feel like a lot of people on the forums scoff at this suggestion, but it truly is a different game when you play it with your friends instead of random pugs.

    There is no purpose to the game mode if you cannot do it with the random ppl from the community. This is why it is called MMO, to do a lot of things with the other millions of people that play. Not everyone can bring 9 friends into the game just to do raids.

    That's your opinion. There is just as much merit to the idea that people should form guilds and play with others on a consistent basis.

    Also your point is moot. PUG groups have cleared all raid content (CM Dhuum included) it just ends up to be more difficult due to the lack of consistency. It is doable though.

    You get to deicide how challenging you want to make raiding for yourself by joining a guild or not. There is no reason to balance around the social hermit who does not want to put enough effort in to overcome the increased difficulty when designing challenging content in a MMO.

    The problem is the overall game design that makes the game quite unsocial. The basic game content of open world and story doesn't promote socializing and even if you make some friends - which is already hard because the aforementioned game-sections are quite unsocial if you exclude meaningless smalltalk -, you still have the problem that these may not be interested in raids since raids are niche-content anyway due to how this game is designed. Even if you have friends who are interested in raids, they may already have a static, meaning they'll likely not raid with you due to how bad the raid-reward-structures are designed, or they won't have time to raid when you do. It's not about being a "social hermit" it's about this game being designed first and foremost with the single-player-crowd in mind. You have the same problems with finding a raid-guild or even training-guilds. Raids are niche so just a small percentage of the playerbase is interested in them; you also have the problem that guilds are quite invisible due to the lack of a decent guild-advertising-system or guild-browser. People keep telling that you just have to make some friends to raid with in GW2, but always keep forgetting that that's the hard part in this game - exponentially harder than in several other MMORPGs due to how GW2 is designed.

  • Daniel.5428Daniel.5428 Member ✭✭✭

    @Talindra.4958 said:
    I wish I can make the other 9ppl in EU play at my play time. I don't have many variable to choose from. hence I can only pug. I am an oceanic player with an EU guild to manage since gw1

    Yes. you are right, schedules are hard to respect. I found a lot of raiding teams but most of them were students or teenagers under 20 so they had a lot of free time. I was usuall at job when they raided.

    P.S: Btw, I saw you in a lot of raiding posts of forum and in most scenarios we had very similar points of view. Do you mind if I join your guild, maybe we can raid together from time to time?

  • @Linken.6345 said:
    They always said it from the start it was not supposed to be puged

    And that's a glaring design flaw, imo. Pugging is the cornerstone of virtually every other online game.

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daniel.5428 said:

    @Talindra.4958 said:
    I wish I can make the other 9ppl in EU play at my play time. I don't have many variable to choose from. hence I can only pug. I am an oceanic player with an EU guild to manage since gw1

    Yes. you are right, schedules are hard to respect. I found a lot of raiding teams but most of them were students or teenagers under 20 so they had a lot of free time. I was usuall at job when they raided.

    P.S: Btw, I saw you in a lot of raiding posts of forum and in most scenarios we had very similar points of view. Do you mind if I join your guild, maybe we can raid together from time to time?

    I'm in EU, I play usually at this hour for the next 3 hours. Are you in EU too?

    Death is Energy [DIE] in EU
    Envoy's Herald, CoZ, VitV, DD, SS, The Eternal, LNHB, Champion Magus, Champion Phantom, Wondrous Achiever etc.

  • @Talindra.4958 said:
    I wish I can make the other 9ppl in EU play at my play time. I don't have many variable to choose from. hence I can only pug. I am an oceanic player with an EU guild to >manage since gw1.

    I dont really know you timezone but i saw a guild in lfg that wants players for late night EU raids. Maybe they suit your timezone and you might be able to form a static group out of it.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daniel.5428 said:
    PVP should be only with strangers or you risk to have ppl grouping in huge teams and become LB barons. I would not even let them play ranked as a team. Look at raids. We have groups of ppl with over 10.000 gold from selling bosses. They don't even accept gold anymore, they work only with MF coins. That's why the price does not drop because the MF coin is the new raid sellers' currency: time-gates, needed for a lot of end-game gear(legendary)....perfec to create GW2 barons.

    PVP is dying (and has been for a very long time) because it's only about playing with strangers. You can't control your team mates and they are the source of all the frustration and why every competent player is leaving PVP. Only reason players still see PVP is because they can get rewards there that they can't get in PVE, because it's much easier in PVP as it's only a simple grind there. Which is completely ironic if you think about it for a split second.

    Who cares about raid selling? It only exists because players pay for it. It's a "market" that exists solely because some people are unable to stay away of shinnies, and the "I must have it NOW" mentality. Which is also why the gem store exists and why the prices of the items on it are the way they are. Because, despite complaints about it all, players still keep buying. "But it's too expensive!" said random forum poster and then proceeded to buy it anyway. If EVERYONE would stop giving mystic coins to raid sellers then that market would simply die, it's basic supply and demand rules. But it's better to complain about it right? Don't blame the seller, blame the idiot buyer.

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 26, 2018

    @RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

    @Talindra.4958 said:
    I wish I can make the other 9ppl in EU play at my play time. I don't have many variable to choose from. hence I can only pug. I am an oceanic player with an EU guild to >manage since gw1.

    I dont really know you timezone but i saw a guild in lfg that wants players for late night EU raids. Maybe they suit your timezone and you might be able to form a static group out of it.

    late night in EU is my work time. basically, I go to sleep when the prime time in EU started.. when I wake up, I get ready to go to work for at least 8 hours. when I return home, its eu morning, they go to work when I play. so I usually play with people in EU that is either not working, or student, or different working shift people.

    Death is Energy [DIE] in EU
    Envoy's Herald, CoZ, VitV, DD, SS, The Eternal, LNHB, Champion Magus, Champion Phantom, Wondrous Achiever etc.

  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    @Daniel.5428 said:

    @thrag.9740 said:
    And here I am, a pretty mediocre player who plays with friends every week and has fun succeeding at raids (video proof of my mediocrity: www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzOdIGPiGbE). I've said many times, don't pug. I feel like a lot of people on the forums scoff at this suggestion, but it truly is a different game when you play it with your friends instead of random pugs.

    There is no purpose to the game mode if you cannot do it with the random ppl from the community. This is why it is called MMO, to do a lot of things with the other millions of people that play. Not everyone can bring 9 friends into the game just to do raids.

    Oh, sorry I thought this went without saying. Those 9 people are not IRL friends, they are friends I made in game. MMO's are not about joining random people and never talking to them, they are about meeting people and actually socializing.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daniel.5428 said:

    There is no purpose to the game mode if you cannot do it with the random ppl from the community. This is why it is called MMO, to do a lot of things with the other millions of people that play. Not everyone can bring 9 friends into the game just to do raids.

    Are you familiar that raids weren't made for pugging in the first place? You couldn't even use the lfg properly because there was no subsection for raids like we have nowadays. Statics had to pollute the unspecific main lfg if they were in the need for an additional player because Anet thought it was rather impossible to manage raids without a highly organized team.

    PVP should be only with strangers or you risk to have ppl grouping in huge teams and become LB barons. I would not even let them play ranked as a team. Look at raids. We have groups of ppl with over 10.000 gold from selling bosses. They don't even accept gold anymore, they work only with MF coins. That's why the price does not drop because the MF coin is the new raid sellers' currency: time-gates, needed for a lot of end-game gear(legendary)....perfec to create GW2 barons.

    That's nonsense btw.
    Before Mystic Coins were a thing, sellers were using Ectos (some still do) because those had a stable value over a long period of time in the game. That changed with the introduction of newer content. I don't know if it was the addon or Istan, whatever it doesn't matter.
    The price of Mystic Coins is so high because they cannot be farmed or crafted directly. Most of them are generated via player log ins. Another "decent" source would be running fractal CMs on a daily basis. (I don't know about the acquisition in PvP or WvW).
    And since every legendary (and other stuff) needs a lot of Coins to make - and then they are taken away from the economy forever by crafting such an item, it's obvious that the price will stay high: low influx - high demand. It's highly doubtful that raid sellers have a big impact on the MC market.

  • Daniel.5428Daniel.5428 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    That's nonsense btw.
    Before Mystic Coins were a thing, sellers were using Ectos (some still do) because those had a stable value over a long period of time in the game. That changed with the introduction of newer content. I don't know if it was the addon or Istan, whatever it doesn't matter.
    The price of Mystic Coins is so high because they cannot be farmed or crafted directly. Most of them are generated via player log ins. Another "decent" source would be running fractal CMs on a daily basis. (I don't know about the acquisition in PvP or WvW).
    And since every legendary (and other stuff) needs a lot of Coins to make - and then they are taken away from the economy forever by crafting such an item, it's obvious that the price will stay high: low influx - high demand. It's highly doubtful that raid sellers have a big impact on the MC market.

    Anet still wins from this. I know ppl who bought additional accounts just to get more mc. I use only mine and my gf account

  • @Raizel.8175 said:

    Most training-guilds/communities are invisible to the general playerbase since the LFG just isn't sufficient and there are no decent guild-advertisement-systems/a decent guild-browser in GW2. As long as these guilds and communities aren't visible, they may as well not even exist in the first place. The problem doesn't end here anyway. It's quite common in MMORPGs that "not so good" players keep other "not so good" players down while good players push other good players due to how PvE is generally designed - that's even more true in GW2 due to mechanics like phasing etc. That's why you always want a good mix of player-types if you want to create a healthy MMORPG. The abuse of the LI/LD/KP-system though (which is erecting an unhealthy darwinistic hierarchy) keeps people who're interested in raids down. The chances to rise and get better are rather low compared to other, more healthy MMORPGs. This is especially true for people who are new to raids or returned after some time of absence since the LI/LD/KP-demands are constantly rising. Even veteran raiders with 1k+ LI admit that the demands reached grotesque and very unhealthy dimensions.

    Weird how, when i first started raiding 6 months ago I was able to find 3 different training guilds in 1 day then. No they are not totally in your face and obvious but require the very minimum of searching to find them. This comes back to people just not putting in 1 inch of effort when they start raiding. The raid sellers I know, even though I dislike raid selling, also run a training guild on the side. They dont keep anyone down, they try and teach people. Same as I used to, and many exp raiders I know also did.

    There is already a good mix of players in gw2, quite extreme really from totally casual - dont know how to dodge, to extreme elite - 4 manning dhuum cm. The problem is when people with this too casual attitude want to come into raids without being willing to put in effort to get up to the skill level needed (which isnt that high). If they dont want to put in effort they should stick to story mode, which is designed for their skill level, and not demand raids, or people who raid, change to meet their demands.

    I agree some groups require rediculous amounts of KP, but just ignore them. Theres still tons of groups only asking for 10-50LI and 1kp per boss. Ofc noone wants to join these as you get the type of player I mentioned earlier who does 3kps on MO.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daniel.5428 said:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    That's nonsense btw.
    Before Mystic Coins were a thing, sellers were using Ectos (some still do) because those had a stable value over a long period of time in the game. That changed with the introduction of newer content. I don't know if it was the addon or Istan, whatever it doesn't matter.
    The price of Mystic Coins is so high because they cannot be farmed or crafted directly. Most of them are generated via player log ins. Another "decent" source would be running fractal CMs on a daily basis. (I don't know about the acquisition in PvP or WvW).
    And since every legendary (and other stuff) needs a lot of Coins to make - and then they are taken away from the economy forever by crafting such an item, it's obvious that the price will stay high: low influx - high demand. It's highly doubtful that raid sellers have a big impact on the MC market.

    Anet still wins from this. I know ppl who bought additional accounts just to get more mc. I use only mine and my gf account

    But Anet doesn't win due to raid sellers. The only thing happening is that Gold is taken out of the game because people who are trading Mystic Coins via TP are paying the 15% gold fee and therefore this money is getting "destroyed".
    I also have a 2nd account and bought it when I could get one for 10€. I would call it investment in the future and it is/was cheaper for me than buying gems directly since I just have to press 3 buttons more to get rewards for years without playing.
    All in all this has nothing to do or has any connection to raid selling.

  • Raizel.8175Raizel.8175 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zombyturtle.5980 said:

    @Raizel.8175 said:

    Most training-guilds/communities are invisible to the general playerbase since the LFG just isn't sufficient and there are no decent guild-advertisement-systems/a decent guild-browser in GW2. As long as these guilds and communities aren't visible, they may as well not even exist in the first place. The problem doesn't end here anyway. It's quite common in MMORPGs that "not so good" players keep other "not so good" players down while good players push other good players due to how PvE is generally designed - that's even more true in GW2 due to mechanics like phasing etc. That's why you always want a good mix of player-types if you want to create a healthy MMORPG. The abuse of the LI/LD/KP-system though (which is erecting an unhealthy darwinistic hierarchy) keeps people who're interested in raids down. The chances to rise and get better are rather low compared to other, more healthy MMORPGs. This is especially true for people who are new to raids or returned after some time of absence since the LI/LD/KP-demands are constantly rising. Even veteran raiders with 1k+ LI admit that the demands reached grotesque and very unhealthy dimensions.

    Weird how, when i first started raiding 6 months ago I was able to find 3 different training guilds in 1 day then. No they are not totally in your face and obvious but require the very minimum of searching to find them. This comes back to people just not putting in 1 inch of effort when they start raiding. The raid sellers I know, even though I dislike raid selling, also run a training guild on the side. They dont keep anyone down, they try and teach people. Same as I used to, and many exp raiders I know also did.

    There is already a good mix of players in gw2, quite extreme really from totally casual - dont know how to dodge, to extreme elite - 4 manning dhuum cm. The problem is when people with this too casual attitude want to come into raids without being willing to put in effort to get up to the skill level needed (which isnt that high). If they dont want to put in effort they should stick to story mode, which is designed for their skill level, and not demand raids, or people who raid, change to meet their demands.

    I agree some groups require rediculous amounts of KP, but just ignore them. Theres still tons of groups only asking for 10-50LI and 1kp per boss. Ofc noone wants to join these as you get the type of player I mentioned earlier who does 3kps on MO.

    I also found multiple training guilds, the problem though is that you can easily go under - especially in mass-guilds - and may not be able to get a spot in trainings anyway - especially if you play "only" dps due to how the heavy class-inbalance concerning support-builds leads to several overprominent classes you need in raids. Just look at the LFG, people mostly search for Chronos and Druids. The further problems are that already the organization takes a lot of time and you may only have a few training sessions anyway due to the possible shortage of organizators in these guilds. The thing is though: You need repetition to internalize mechanics. You most likely won't get that repetition in these guilds - at least it was like that in my case -, meaning you still have to rely on the LFG. Your sarcasm and exaggerations (3k DPS at MO is impossible) at this spot is misplaced, especially considering that LI/LD/KP are by no way a reliable skill-indicator. Hell, I was in 300+ LI PUGs that were a total clownfiesta and was top dps in there as BM-Reaper. In that regard, the darwinistic hierarchy the raiding-community suffers from is harming the game and people who want to get into the content. It already speaks for itself that such a hierarchy isn't present in any other MMORPG. You also misunderstood me. It's not about having several player-types, it about the ratio of player-types in instanced PvE - and that ratio is unhealthy in GW2 raids due to the aforementioned darwinistic hierarchy. At this point, you exaggerate again. A lot of people who want to get into raids do some effort - like checking SC for builds and how they work and watching guides of the raid-encounter they want to do. In most other MMORPGs - besides having the basic stats necessary for the content - that's sufficient to get into decent groups. GW2 on the other hand is a very special snowflake in that regard. I do think that the raiding community is far too unwelcoming, especially since most people regard raids as some sort of work.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 27, 2018

    @Raizel.8175 said:

    @zombyturtle.5980 said:

    @Raizel.8175 said:

    Most training-guilds/communities are invisible to the general playerbase since the LFG just isn't sufficient and there are no decent guild-advertisement-systems/a decent guild-browser in GW2. As long as these guilds and communities aren't visible, they may as well not even exist in the first place. The problem doesn't end here anyway. It's quite common in MMORPGs that "not so good" players keep other "not so good" players down while good players push other good players due to how PvE is generally designed - that's even more true in GW2 due to mechanics like phasing etc. That's why you always want a good mix of player-types if you want to create a healthy MMORPG. The abuse of the LI/LD/KP-system though (which is erecting an unhealthy darwinistic hierarchy) keeps people who're interested in raids down. The chances to rise and get better are rather low compared to other, more healthy MMORPGs. This is especially true for people who are new to raids or returned after some time of absence since the LI/LD/KP-demands are constantly rising. Even veteran raiders with 1k+ LI admit that the demands reached grotesque and very unhealthy dimensions.

    Weird how, when i first started raiding 6 months ago I was able to find 3 different training guilds in 1 day then. No they are not totally in your face and obvious but require the very minimum of searching to find them. This comes back to people just not putting in 1 inch of effort when they start raiding. The raid sellers I know, even though I dislike raid selling, also run a training guild on the side. They dont keep anyone down, they try and teach people. Same as I used to, and many exp raiders I know also did.

    There is already a good mix of players in gw2, quite extreme really from totally casual - dont know how to dodge, to extreme elite - 4 manning dhuum cm. The problem is when people with this too casual attitude want to come into raids without being willing to put in effort to get up to the skill level needed (which isnt that high). If they dont want to put in effort they should stick to story mode, which is designed for their skill level, and not demand raids, or people who raid, change to meet their demands.

    I agree some groups require rediculous amounts of KP, but just ignore them. Theres still tons of groups only asking for 10-50LI and 1kp per boss. Ofc noone wants to join these as you get the type of player I mentioned earlier who does 3kps on MO.

    I also found multiple training guilds, the problem though is that you can easily go under - especially in mass-guilds - and may not be able to get a spot in trainings anyway - especially if you play "only" dps due to how the heavy class-inbalance concerning support-builds leads to several overprominent classes you need in raids. Just look at the LFG, people mostly search for Chronos and Druids. The further problems are that already the organization takes a lot of time and you may only have a few training sessions anyway due to the possible shortage of organizators in these guilds.

    Those are pure assumptions on your part and while potentially true in some cases my personal experience similar as zombyturtle.5980 disagrees.. I am personally member of 2 guilds which have been and are still running training runs weekly for over 6 months.

    Demand exceeds spots for training raids? Most organizers will implement a sign-up process.

    Class imbalance for dps? Learn to play 1 power and 1 condition build and you are golden, no matter if it's absolute top damage, especially in training raids. You will not be pulling Snow Crow numbers any way. If you are semi decent at playing your class, you will out perform any meta class player in a training run. I should know, I usually beat PUG dps players (in regular raids, not training), and as a support player I am usually on the bottom end of the damage dealt in my partial static. The quality of PUG players overall is trash tier in this game.

    Yes organization takes time, but guess what, people still do it because they enjoy the game mode. Again you are making up artificial problems which are not valid for all situations.

    @Raizel.8175 said:
    The thing is though: You need repetition to internalize mechanics. You most likely won't get that repetition in these guilds - at least it was like that in my case -, meaning you still have to rely on the LFG. Your sarcasm and exaggerations (3k DPS at MO is impossible) at this spot is misplaced, especially considering that LI/LD/KP are by no way a reliable skill-indicator.

    We've had a 3k damage weaver on MO in one of our training runs. We carried him through, did not flame him and gave advice. Suffice to say, if it hadn't been a relaxed guild run the other 9 people (5-6 very experienced raiders helping out) would not have been as patient (8-9 MO tries since we had 4 new dps total).

    @Raizel.8175 said:
    Hell, I was in 300+ LI PUGs that were a total clownfiesta and was top dps in there as BM-Reaper. In that regard, the darwinistic hierarchy the raiding-community suffers from is harming the game and people who want to get into the content.

    Yes, the causal crowd has reached 300-400 LI by now with many having obviously been carried on harder fights or simply acquired their LI from easy bosses over a longer period of time. There is some truly terrible players at 300 LI. Hence why people moved on to use KP, a more rigid system to make sure they get the people they want. Again proof that many are simply willing to put in the bare minimum effort, if at all.

    @Raizel.8175 said:
    It already speaks for itself that such a hierarchy isn't present in any other MMORPG. You also misunderstood me. It's not about having several player-types, it about the ratio of player-types in instanced PvE - and that ratio is unhealthy in GW2 raids due to the aforementioned darwinistic hierarchy. At this point, you exaggerate again. A lot of people who want to get into raids do some effort - like checking SC for builds and how they work and watching guides of the raid-encounter they want to do. In most other MMORPGs - besides having the basic stats necessary for the content - that's sufficient to get into decent groups. GW2 on the other hand is a very special snowflake in that regard. I do think that the raiding community is far too unwelcoming, especially since most people regard raids as some sort of work.

    Yeah no, many are NOT doing the necessary work before getting into raiding. Some do yes, mostly experienced raiders (not LFR junkies) from other games. The vast majority simply wants the rewards and that's it.

    Here you are the one exaggerating wildly. High end raid content in other games certainly does not "only" require the correct gear. Proof of experience is a factor in just about any game and if you fail to perform you get the boot. Many other MMOs simply allow way more inspection of individual players and if people see something they do not like, you are not in. Same as here.

  • @Raizel.8175 said:

    I also found multiple training guilds, the problem though is that you can easily go under - especially in mass-guilds - and may not be able to get a spot in trainings anyway - especially if you play "only" dps due to how the heavy class-inbalance concerning support-builds leads to several overprominent classes you need in raids. Just look at the LFG, people mostly search for Chronos and Druids. The further problems are that already the organization takes a lot of time and you may only have a few training sessions anyway due to the possible shortage of organizators in these guilds. The thing is though: You need repetition to internalize mechanics. You most likely won't get that repetition in these guilds - at least it was like that in my case -, meaning you still have to rely on the LFG. Your sarcasm and exaggerations (3k DPS at MO is impossible) at this spot is misplaced, especially considering that LI/LD/KP are by no way a reliable skill-indicator. Hell, I was in 300+ LI PUGs that were a total clownfiesta and was top dps in there as BM-Reaper. In that regard, the darwinistic hierarchy the raiding-community suffers from is harming the game and people who want to get into the content. It already speaks for itself that such a hierarchy isn't present in any other MMORPG. You also misunderstood me. It's not about having several player-types, it about the ratio of player-types in instanced PvE - and that ratio is unhealthy in GW2 raids due to the aforementioned darwinistic hierarchy. At this point, you exaggerate again. A lot of people who want to get into raids do some effort - like checking SC for builds and how they work and watching guides of the raid-encounter they want to do. In most other MMORPGs - besides having the basic stats necessary for the content - that's sufficient to get into decent groups. GW2 on the other hand is a very special snowflake in that regard. I do think that the raiding community is far too unwelcoming, especially since most people regard raids as some sort of work.

    >

    3k dps is far from impossible. I have seen even worse. People being short of supports, and overabundance of dps, has been going on since the very beginning of trinity MMOs and is no different here. Its not a gw2 issue. The organizers of training raids take on SO much work giving their time and patience with 0 reward for it, they cant help if people dont want to learn supports.

    Mechanics arent that difficult, most people can grasp them in 4-5 pulls. If you want them to become muscle memory then ofc you will have to practice alot, but you shouldnt ever need to join pugs to practice basic mechanics. Only specialized ones that take abit more time to learn like handkiting.

    I dont think there should be a ratio of casuals and hardcore in raids. Raids are designed for hardcore players. Super casuals are ofc welcome to make their own parties and have a go at bosses but for content deliberately targeted at more dedicated player, why on earth should people who put in 0 effort expect or demand to be able to clear it. People should put in the tiny amount of effort needed to bring themselves to average level if they want to clear the hardest content in game.

    Because the skill gap is SO high between people who put in effort, bring proper builds and learn how to dps, compared to those who bring their open world tanky gear to a dps slot in raids, people will always try and create ways to remove the latter from their groups. This has the unfortunate effect of excluding less experienced, but willing players from elite runs yes but what do you suggest instead? Bring every single person to every raid? Get 3 dps doing 8k on gorseval? If EVERYONE put in the effort then there would be no kp and LI checks. Unfortunately they dont. You can blame anet for creating a game where a player in correct gear, using correct skills does 10x more dmg than a person in random stuff they threw together. Other games dont have this massive gap, and therefore people are more willing to take a risk on new players because how bad can they be?. In gw2, bad.

  • Clyan.1593Clyan.1593 Member ✭✭✭

    Wait heal druid isn't good at healing? Why is heal druid according to snow crows recommended on so many raid bosses then?

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 27, 2018

    @Clyan.1593 said:
    Wait heal druid isn't good at healing? Why is heal druid according to snow crows recommended on so many raid bosses then?

    Due to it's utility.

    The amount of healing provided by other heal builds (which is vastly superior on almost all other healers, druid is dead last in heal output) is way more than is needed. Druids utility is among the best though and compliments chronomancer very well.

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