From the Ashes instance is unfair to some classes

[Tails.9372]

I kinda don't like how they nerfed stealth in this area, in regards to PvE stealth as a game mechanic is pretty much useless > 99% of the time so of course the one time this game mechanic would actually be usefull A-Net desdes to s**t on it.

[Vyrulisse.1246]

The fact that she doesn't follow the rules of the game is most annoying to me.

[Reverielle.3972]

@Taygus.4571 said:

@"Reverielle.3972" said:I went with a friend and found this instance enjoyable, but very challenging. I my character was defeated a number of times, it was almost frustrating, but not quite.

same. Went with a friend. Thankfully they were much better at it than I.

I will have to practice this instance because I actually found it interesting and fun. I just sucked terribly at it.

(Reading comments, apparently the instance is harder for people who don't open the instance? Thats an odd choice for Anet to make.)

Yes, I remember in the instance thinking "oh you can can see the bullet coming and that will give you time to dodge" when I saw my friend's character being shot at (the one that opened the instance) however for my character it seemed to be instantaneous.~~ I'm not sure if this was a real effect or an illusion. ~~I will have to try alone in future sometime and see how I go. (Edit: just read Connor's commentabove)

[Scar.1793]

It’s funny because I had this thought when I played that passage for the first time. Needless to say with my Revenant’s Impossible Odds that part was like a walk in the park.

[Ashgar.3024]

@Diak Atoli.2085 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Klipso.8653 said:The real problem is that

stealthing

with glides and shields/bubbles/reflects

don't do anything

.

Stealthing doesn't work?? :o Aww. I was looking forward to getting the Sniper achievement that way. Bummer.

If you're planning on using a Thief, Shortbow #5 would be very effective. I think.

Or Rifle 4. Deadeye vs Deadeye was a very fun duel thematically.

@"Tails.9372" said:

Fun instance, this is how they should have done deadeye gameplay instead of this "hide and seek" gameplay we have right now.

Yeah i'm sure people would had enjoyed being sniped from 30,000 yards in PvP /s . Lore | Gameplay. Outside her ridiculous range on Rifle, Zafirah is pretty much the same as a player Deadeye, she even switches to D/P for close quarter combat like players do in WvW.>

@Warscythes.9307 said:Some instances will always favor some classes. Unless you want everything homogenized then this will always be a thing.

Exactly and this is why we can have multiple character slots. I main a Thief but there's some achievements and circumstances where my much less mobile but much tankier Scrapper works a lot better for example and vice versa.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

of course it isn't hard on thieves, mesmers or guardians.

But if you go in as an ele, and you can't change skills thanks to the poison cloud, you are screwed. I did it. It wasn't hard. It was ANNOYING.

Hard was Caudecus pre nerf. This was not hard. This was unfair. Big difference.

And for those who do not think that there are anet pet classes: go pvp or wvw, and have a nice encounter with a thief, who attacks out of stealth, vanishes into stealth and there is NOTHING you can do about it. He decides when and where to attack. HP gets low? he vanishes, heals up, and then just shoots you down. Just take one 12k+ hit after another. Or mesmers with their infinite evades, clones spam and blinks. And then tell me, that there are no pet classes. Sure, balanced...

[Guest]

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:of course it isn't hard on thieves, mesmers or guardians.

But if you go in as an ele, and you can't change skills thanks to the poison cloud, you are screwed. I did it. It wasn't hard. It was ANNOYING.

Speak for yourself, I guess. I went in on a full glass staff tempest with no idea what the encounter was about. Got sniped at first while figuring out the mechanics of the area, then finished her off with plenty of room to spare for the time achievement.

I thought it was a cool and interesting encounter, and I'm looking forward to trying the no-hit achievement. With the sheer amount of variety you can get on every class between trait lines (including elite specs), weapons, skills, gear, and food, I cannot possibly imagine there not being a way for any class to manage any standard PvE instance.

[Rufo.3716]

This and the last instance I thought were incredibly unfun. DE's in general are annoying and then they make them godlike with this instance. Maybe I've just played to many in PvP and hate them but this instance annoyed the hell out of me.

[Lucius.2140]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

Is interesting because what you said tells how much replayability can be created for not easy content if the players had a better guidance in the mechanics and options of the game.

[Lucius.2140]

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

Ele has a teleport and a invulnerability with movement + the gs summon that has dodge on one mobility, without counting other skills like focus invuln.Weaver can dodge so much.

Worst case: die one time, change build and thats all.In my case was: sniper and seems to need to move to her in an open field: changing build, lets start.

[Ghostrider.6879]

You can actually use the Jackal and the new mastery to skip roughly half of the area for the 1st part. Then she was just a few pillars away. If you had TP skills, you can pretty much start fighting her within 30s or a minute.That said I was a bit greedy when I first started this instance, trying to do both achievement at the same time, which resulted in failures because I was rushing and being careless. Then I took my time and avoid all her shots. I will probably roll a different class for the timed achievement later.Really cool instance tho, I enjoyed it very much.

[Gehenna.3625]

@Vyrulisse.1246 said:The fact that she doesn't follow the rules of the game is most annoying to me.

All bosses pretty much can do things that players cannot.And since this boss is also programmed into the game, she does follow the rules of the game.

So I'm wondering what your point is really.

[Mahou.3924]

Disclaimer: It may read as a rage/nerf post, but it isn't.When I did this mission on my 0815 budget Ranger-SB, I actually got to the last battle part in red gear; me being a bad player and all that, nothing uncommon so far. Of course, I also forgot to equip Signet of the Hunt, but I guess the main "problem" was that I misjudged the distance from one cover spot to another, which cost me several restarts. I found the fights themselves harder on my cheap Zerker gear than - later on - on my cheap Viper gear somehow. I wouldn't go for the achievements, though. simply completely lack the environmental awereness and finess for such feats. Same for a normal playthrough with my Ele as I'm beyond terrible at playing her :anguished:I tried using the raptor once, but got instantly shot-down, thus didn't bother further with it.Overall: Atmosphere and dialogues/VActing great, the battle and stuff somewhere in the middle? Yes, the main problem is the guy - I - in front of the monitor, no doubt about it. I'm self-aware enough of it.

[Vyrulisse.1246]

@Gehenna.3625 said:

@Vyrulisse.1246 said:The fact that she doesn't follow the rules of the game is most annoying to me.

All bosses pretty much can do things that players cannot.And since this boss is also programmed into the game, she does follow the rules of the game.

So I'm wondering what your point is really.

She is a Human, she's nothing particularly special. That line of reasoning doesn't apply here. She's just a Deadeye but she isn't bound by the same rules as players are and is designed to flout them. That's my point when I say rules of the game. It's an annoying thing that is too widely used as a placeholder for challenging and interesting fights.

For me it wasn't particularly challenging but it was boring and annoying. I didn't have fun in that instance because I felt cheated.

[Ashantara.8731]

@Griever.8150 said:

@Diak Atoli.2085 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:Stealthing doesn't work?? :o Aww. I was looking forward to getting the Sniper achievement that way. Bummer.

If you're planning on using a Thief, Shortbow #5 would be very effective. I think.

Or Rifle 4. Deadeye vs Deadeye was a very fun duel thematically.

Nope. I already mentioned on Page 1 that stealth does work (although its duration is significantly shorter) and the information given was incorrect. ;) No Deadeye build for my beloved Daredevil. :#

@Ghostrider.6879 said:You can actually use the Jackal and the new mastery to skip roughly half of the area for the 1st part.

:+1:

@"Mahou.3924" said:When I did this mission on my 0815 budget Ranger-SB, I actually got to the last battle part in red gear; me being a bad player and all that, nothing uncommon so far. Of course, I also forgot to equip Signet of the Hunt, but I guess the main "problem" was that I misjudged the distance from one cover spot to another, which cost me several restarts. I found the fights themselves harder on my cheap Zerker gear than - later on - on my cheap Viper gear somehow. I wouldn't go for the achievements, though. simply completely lack the environmental awereness and finess for such feats.

Don't be too hard on yourself. This is a little harder on Ranger than on other professions, especially if you have no weapon equipped that allows you to leap forward. The fights in particular are more difficult on a melee ranger, so I recommend not merging with your pet, but letting it tank instead, and using a shortbow instead if you are having trouble with evading on time etc.

[Ashantara.8731]

Oh, one more thing: You can jump off the first and second building as soon as Zafirah becomes invulnerable and glide across the field towards the next destination. She won't be able to target you for the first couple of seconds, plus you can enter stealth gliding mode in addition. :)

[Odinsfury.8360]

I played through it once on scourge. Then I got one of the mythical story disconnects that happen during the last cutscene of a story instance. So I contemplated quitting the game forever, but instead I repaired my GW2 archive which seems to correct the problem for a week or so. On the second run I realized I could use sand swell, which made it a lot easier.

I didn't really enjoy that segment, but I thought it was well done.

[Gehenna.3625]

@Vyrulisse.1246 said:

@Gehenna.3625 said:

@Vyrulisse.1246 said:The fact that she doesn't follow the rules of the game is most annoying to me.

All bosses pretty much can do things that players cannot.And since this boss is also programmed into the game, she does follow the rules of the game.

So I'm wondering what your point is really.

She is a Human, she's nothing particularly special. That line of reasoning doesn't apply here. She's just a Deadeye but she isn't bound by the same rules as players are and is designed to flout them. That's my point when I say rules of the game. It's an annoying thing that is too widely used as a placeholder for challenging and interesting fights.

For me it wasn't particularly challenging but it was boring and annoying. I didn't have fun in that instance because I felt cheated.

Your character is a normal person. Mine tend to be human but whichever race you pick. You kill dragons and gods even though you're not really anything special. She's also a priestess of Balthazar and has gotten power that way clearly.

And as I said all bosses have ridiculous powers. This is normal in this game. I really don't see why you make an exception of her and are ok with others. She's not "just" a deadeye. That's your assumption. You can't expect to be taken seriously when you are angry at people for doing something that is actually not happening but is based on your own false assumption. As mentioned she's a priestess of Balthazar and a powerful one at that. There are plenty of npc's surrounding you as well that do not follow the same rules as you do. It just makes no sense to think that npc's in a game must or will follow the same rules as your character.

It already starts with the amount of hit points bosses have that far exceeds your own. It doesn't always have to be a dragon or a god to be a formidable foe. That would be boring and frankly I've had my fill of dragons in this game as it is but the amount of hit points they get is beyond anything you ever have.

If you found the fight boring that's fine but the reason you feel cheated as you see just doesn't make any logical sense to me because bosses never follow the same rules. In fact I'll do you one worse. Actually, normal mobs don't follow the same rules. Ever noticed how you can get knocked off a ledge or a structure by for example dredge but when you do a knockback on them, they don't fall off? It's all over the place.

Honestly, if you think this boss is particular because it doesn't follow the same rules and limitations that your character has then you simply haven't been paying attention in this game. Nothing really follows the same rules as our characters. That probably has something to do with them being AI controlled and you being a real person.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Ashantara.8731 said:Oh, one more thing: You can jump off the first and second building as soon as Zafirah becomes invulnerable and glide across the field towards the next destination. She won't be able to target you for the first couple of seconds, plus you can enter stealth gliding mode in addition. :)

Good tip... except for stealth gliding.Well, the idea of stealth gliding is good, it's just more complicated: you have to enter stealth before the Deadeye targets you, otherwise her shot will be true. I imagine that can be done if you're out of sight when entering the glide and sounds like while she's invulnerable, too.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Odinsfury.8360 said:Then I got one of the mythical story disconnects that happen during the last cutscene of a story instance.

One tip that helps a lot of people (including a friend of mine): start spamming your autoattack during any extended dialogue and even in a cutscene (your key-presses still affect your character, even if you can't see it). This apparently helps the game realize that, yes, yes, yes, you're still connected (silly machines).

It won't help everyone and it won't help in every situation (because the reasons for DCs can vary), but it might help often enough to prevent the contemplation of quitting.

[Ashantara.8731]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:Oh, one more thing: You can jump off the first and second building as soon as Zafirah becomes invulnerable and glide across the field towards the next destination. She won't be able to target you for the first couple of seconds,

plus

you can enter stealth gliding mode in addition. :)

Good tip... except for stealth gliding.Well, the idea of stealth gliding is good, it's just more complicated: you have to enter stealth before the Deadeye targets you, otherwise her shot will be true. I imagine that can be done if you're out of sight when entering the glide and sounds like while she's invulnerable, too.

I did it on two characters today. When you jump off the platforum as soon as she becomes invulnerable (even before she ports to the next platform, if you are quick enough), you won't get targeted for a fair amount of time and can (stealth) glide a big chunk of the distance before seeking cover.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@"Ashantara.8731" said:I did it on two characters today. When you jump off the platforum as soon as she becomes invulnerable (even before she ports to the next platform, if you are quick enough), you won't get targeted for a fair amount of time and can (stealth) glide a big chunk of the distance before seeking cover.

"Fair amount of time" is 2-3 second you think? or longer?

tl;dr is: start gliding or running your mount towards her next location as soon as she pauses the fight.(requires knowing where to go, but that's fine for working on achievements)

Good tip and thanks for the research.

[Arcan Blues.5284]

I tried late night, with warrior (I class I don't usualy play as much as mesmer, or theif).I was only doing the story, kinda quikly. I didn't know the area that much, nor the mobs around it.

The first try was short. I checked the achievements and was like ''Oh, it's just one enemy and I shouldn't get shot while running this place full of obstacles... piece of cake with jackal''... I got shot/dismonted in less than a sec.The second try was pretty much like the first one, so I realised the Jackal evasion wasn't working.The third try (I didn't die on the first two, I just thought the achievement would be easy with mounts) I used Bond of Life, which made things worst. I thought that the deadeye's shot was some low amount of damage, not a 75%+ drained in one shot... so I died the first time xD.The forth try I kinda just wanted to finish the instance already xD. I got snaped out of the mount (takes less then a second to get shot with a mount, while on foot take a good while), crawled to the base of the building and then.... "how do I get up there?! Oh right, I didn't know the open world area, so I was lost inside the instance". So I died of poision trying to find the stairs.

The fith try... sixth try... seventh try?! I think I finish on the seventh, but the deal here is I got frustraited doing this instance cuz I was actualy discovering the area, discovering the mobs of the area and finding out some skill didn't work inside the instance as they do outside.

The instance itself wasn't hard at all, but it was definetly frustraiting. I was imagining that the deadeye would be hard to kill and all, but it wasnt... thou teleporting to Narnia after reaching some % of HP, hitting me while teleporting (Jackal), being unable to kd while downed was frustraiting xDWhen it's easy (or even hard), but frustraiting, it gets boring.

[Ashantara.8731]

@Arcan Blues.5284 said:The first try was short. I checked the achievements and was like ''Oh, it's just one enemy and I shouldn't get shot while running this place full of obstacles... piece of cake with jackal''...

You don't use the jackal to evade, you use it to get to the first and second cover objects quickly. Of course, it depends on which path you choose, so I can't speak for everyone.

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@"Ashantara.8731" said:I did it on two characters today. When you jump off the platforum as soon as she becomes invulnerable (even before she ports to the next platform, if you are quick enough), you won't get targeted for a fair amount of time and can (stealth) glide a big chunk of the distance before seeking cover.

"Fair amount of time" is 2-3 second you think? or longer?

Could be 4-5. I was too focused on the terrain to really count the seconds. I can tell you the distance, though: it was about half the field from the first platform to the second, and the same from the second platform to the third. (Edit - Just to confirm: stealth gliding works perfectly when you do it like I explained. She won't target you as long as you are in stealth gliding mode.)

Something else everyone should be aware of: you can use the center platform to recover health, at the stairs as you are out of poison there (only go up halfway to remain covered). Just for your information.

[Mrs Lana.2506]

@Thiazi.1250 said:This isn't me whining that it's too hard. I'm trying to point out that some classes are much better equipped to do this in others, which I believe should not be the case in story content.

Welcome to a game with multiple classes. You don't like it try something else. That's just the way it works.