From the Ashes instance is unfair to some classes

[Zushada.6108]

@"Mahou.3924" said:Disclaimer: It may read as a rage/nerf post, but it isn't.When I did this mission on my 0815 budget Ranger-SB, I actually got to the last battle part in red gear; me being a bad player and all that, nothing uncommon so far. Of course, I also forgot to equip Signet of the Hunt, but I guess the main "problem" was that I misjudged the distance from one cover spot to another, which cost me several restarts. I found the fights themselves harder on my cheap Zerker gear than - later on - on my cheap Viper gear somehow. I wouldn't go for the achievements, though. simply completely lack the environmental awereness and finess for such feats. Same for a normal playthrough with my Ele as I'm beyond terrible at playing her :anguished:I tried using the raptor once, but got instantly shot-down, thus didn't bother further with it.Overall: Atmosphere and dialogues/VActing great, the battle and stuff somewhere in the middle? Yes, the main problem is the guy - I - in front of the monitor, no doubt about it. I'm self-aware enough of it.

Don't forget Greatsword 3 is a leap that you can use to jump forward. You can also use Quickening Zephyr and Strength of the pack for speed to get from one location to the next. But the fact that you actually beat it on your "Budget" ranger is something to be proud of. Great job! It is not an easy fight for many and having the perseverance to keep at it and even try a different profession says a lot. :smile:

[Obtena.7952]

I don't get this complaint ... what content DOESN'T favour classes with strengths that counter the content mechanics directly? Since every class is different, then it's logical that some classes will have a harder time doing the content. Not sure that's a problem. In most cases, there is a way to overcome and get the achievements ... but this requires rethinking how to build to do it.

@otto.5684 said:

@Connor Fallon.9408 said:I just want to say that I really enjoyed reading about all the different strategies people employed for this instance. And I'm glad my prompt to experiment with skills actually helped someone :)

To the OP: I can't deny that some classes/builds are better suited for this challenge than others, but I tried to balance it so it wouldn't be too bad for anyone. I actually mostly tested this event just walking, with no swiftness and no abilities. It's... harder, and sadly less fun, but it IS possible. The problem is if I tune it down any more, then it becomes boring with the use of any abilities. If people have more notes on classes that feel particularly difficult, though, it's good to know.

For people who found it easy - I'm curious if you are able to do it with the nuisance buff that causes her to shoot you more quickly. (You can get it by being the NIO when you enter the instance - just have the IO hang back while you challenge yourself. Full disclosure: that one might not be possible for some classes :P)

It was not difficult. It was extremely boring. Getting to the dead eye once was okay, when I realized I had to do again I was like YOU HAVE TO BE KITTEN KIDDING ME.

I am not against encounters having mechanics. Just do not make them tedious and long.

To be fair, the paths are much different so even though the idea of avoiding her attacks was the same, it was necessary to not simply retrace your steps to do so. That's enough to provide a different challenge to people than just repeating their path or following a script to win.

[Biff.5312]

I'd be curious to know if the people who had no problems and completed with achieves first try already had information - i.e., watched online videos or etc. to know what was coming? I ask because I reached the sniper and fought with no problems at all the first time. But I had no idea she'd port to new locations, and didn't know until I looked around and experimented what kinds of cover I could use. As a result I was shot several times before I finished, as I was figuring out how to overcome the situation/terrain. I find it surprising that someone could go in blind and just 'know' enough not to get hit. For instance when she ported the first time I mounted my griffon, thinking I'd do an immediate dive for speed to cover ground. I was instantly killed. Then I noticed that when you mount there's a tiny indicator that if you mouse over it tells you that you're at increased risk when mounted. Not knowing that ahead of time cost me a death.

[ElderNewt.5840]

Swiftness... hide, cover wait for endurance recovery.. Thats how I did it

[Yasi.9065]

Tbh, the "action driven" part of it surprised me so much, with past stories mostly being dialogue with some riddles to solve thrown in and quite unchallenging mobs to fight, that I failed at it and got shot off my gryphon ;) We had tons of fun sneaking from cover to cover... just to discover the cover is made of wood and gets destroyed.... then run for our lives.

This and the raptor race at the end are the most fun I had in story missions in gw2 in a very long time.

And as to it being "unfair" for necro. I helped a friend with the achievement - he a reaper, me a thief - and he got the achievement first because I got too impatient and didnt wait for the shot to hit the cover before moving on. So in a way, the high mobility actually hindered me ;)

Please stop complaining about every little difficulty you encounter in storymissions. If you think a thief is better suited, then nobody is forcing you to play necro for stories. See, I main a thief for all openworld stuff and stories, and I have other difficulties to overcome - like being a oneshot to every single surprise attack. Or mobs with protection. Environmental damaging auras ticking me down. Etc.

Sometimes I get this feeling that people arent happy if they cant complain about something being too difficult in living world episodes. Like its a badge of honor to make a thread about this or that being unfair/impossible and getting it nerfed into utter boredom.

[Ashantara.8731]

@"Biff.5312" said:I'd be curious to know if the people who had no problems and completed with achieves first try already had information - i.e., watched online videos or etc. to know what was coming?

No. There was no such information available during the first day. I played on my Guardian first, and while the fights were easy with him, I had to learn everything about the terrain and certain mechanics regarding not getting sniped first. Once I was through, I thought to myself, "Hmm, the Sniper, No Sniping achievement might be doable on a thief, so I will try that next." My second playthrough was therefore on my thief (after I had done all the other achievements on my Guardian), and I managed this achievement on my second attempt. My third playthrough was on my ranger, and I discovered another mechanic (the one about stealth gliding that I mentioned in my previous posts).

It is impossible to learn everything on your first try. I am certain that even those who managed on their first playthrough of this episode had to restart the instance at least a few times to get it right.

[RoastedBloop.9817]

Got through the instance when I did it solo, however not without feeling frustrated. Overall this step was just a blip to me.From what the general consensus is: be prepared to change utility and even builds. This will help if you're struggling. Adapt to the game, not have the game adapt to you.

@phs.6089 said:Done on engie. Rifle, Elixir S, Rocket boots, Elixir U.And now that i wrote this, I start to think why wasn't I on Scrapper? Just why? lol

Doh! this would have made this instance less frustrating - shows I'm not really paying attention. Having said that, I did use mecha legs for mobility and used sneak gyro. It helped to some degree.

[Briareos.1865]

I did the timed and not get shot achievement. Helps a little by jumping off when she becomes invul before she teleports to the next point.

[ugrakarma.9416]

even to my revenant using shiro speed skill was painful, cuz the revenant shiro heal skill dont surpass the poison debuff damage.

[ugrakarma.9416]

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:well, everything in this game favours thieves, mesmers and rangers. So what? Just deal with it. Do your stuff and feel good that you have done it with a class that is not on anets lapdog list.

Yes anet has to remember that not everyone likes to be a jumping monkey or dancing teleporter ballerina,...., even my Thief is a daredevil staff.

[Kal Spiro.9745]

@Biff.5312 said:I'd be curious to know if the people who had no problems and completed with achieves first try already had information - i.e., watched online videos or etc. to know what was coming?I read the achievement descriptions in the achievement section of the hero panel. One of them suggested not getting shot by the Sniper. Then when I started the mission and they mentioned a Sniper I figured this must be the one. I noticed all the obstructions and assumed that's what they must be for and moved forward with that in mind. It all seemed pretty straight forward and obvious to me. I did not try for the speed run with that character because I knew I couldn't do it, he doesn't do enough damage to ever manage speed runs.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Biff.5312 said:I'd be curious to know if the people who had no problems and completed with achieves first try already had information - i.e., watched online videos or etc. to know what was coming?

No. There was no such information available during the first day.

I dunno if any info was available when I started the instance, because I had turned off /map and even /say (and avoided the forums, reddit) until I had finished the story. Besides wanting to avoid plot spoilers, I also like to first try to figure out the mechanics on my own.

I can't say I acquitted myself favorably (it took me a bit longer to figure some stuff out than I think it should have, looking back with 20-20 hindsight). Even so, it would accurate to say I completed this instance without serious problems. (The final story instance... I did have problems, but that was due to two specific bugs, one of which has been fixed, the other of which can be easily worked-around and isn't even noticeable depending on how you escape.)

[DarkEagle.7381]

I did this instance solo with full Berserker Scepter/Warhorn Tempest using zero defensive utilities or traits. Just play better

[Hevoskuuri.3891]

@"DarkEagle.7381" said:I did this instance solo with full Berserker Scepter/Warhorn Tempest using zero defensive utilities or traits. Just play better

I've never had a problem facerolling every story instance ever, but these 'git gud' comments can honestly be left unsaid. The range of people playing this game is enormous, we have 12-year olds, we have 80-year olds, we have casuals, we have elite hardcore players, we have physically impaired people, and we have people who just want to have fun playing the story. The fact that someone can solo a raid using one hand with their eyes closed, doesn't mean everyone can, or even should.

Because of that range, creating a balance in the difficulty of an MMO to keep everyone happy is an impossible task. I personally think Anet is very good at this; they do throw in some challenge without making things too difficult. At least this is how I imagine most of the playerbase feels. However, like I said, it's always going to be near-impossible for some, and a walk in the park for some.

It's not just this instance that's "unfair" to certain classes/builds/stat combinations; it always has been this way with the story. In some scenarios you're going to benefit from your unique class abilites more, and sometimes less or not at all.

You're right about one thing though. 'Getting good', as in learning the deeper game mechanics, learning your class, and fine-tuning your build will be a big, big help. For some people, it's just not as easy as for others.

[SkullsandRoses.5803]

@Teratus.2859 said:Just wanted to say that all classes have access to teleport now with the Jackel mount..

You can easily use it's teleports to blink from cover to cover as well as the new mastry to boost endurance regen to spam it.

Have you tried this on your Jackel? Mounts are no help in this instance. The deadeye hits hard if you mount or if you glide. They are useless here.

[Charrbeque.8729]

@"ugrakarma.9416" said:even to my revenant using shiro speed skill was painful, cuz the revenant shiro heal skill dont surpass the poison debuff damage.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Enchanted_Daggers

Because it requires enemies to be around in order to get the full healing from it. You get a few little green crystals that float on your character. Each crystal flies out and hits an enemy and you get healed when it hits. If there's no enemies around, all you'll get is the tiny amount of healing from casting the skill.

You're also under constant poison when going through the field in this story instance. Poison reduces the amount of healing you receive by 33%. Revenant skills already heal for barely anything, unless certain conditions are met for most stances, so this makes it worse.

Your best bet would be Dwarf stance since its healing skill has the highest self heal out of all the stances and doesn't have any requirements to get the full healing effect, but the healing is still crappy. It also removes up to 5 conditions. But there's a catch with this story instance:

For starters, the poison from the field is reapplied to you even if you remove it.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Soothing_Stone

Anomaly: This skill will remove conditions after the heal, causing it to be affected by poison unlike other skills that have the same ability.

The healing while in dwarf stance is reduced by 33% due to the poison from the field, even though it removes the poison.

That's the thing I don't like about Revenant. You don't have any good large self heals. Most have requirements such as being close to enemies, getting hit by enemies, or standing still inside a circle in order to get the full healing benefits.

[Warscythes.9307]

@Charrbeque.8729 said:

@"ugrakarma.9416" said:even to my revenant using shiro speed skill was painful, cuz the revenant shiro heal skill dont surpass the poison debuff damage.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Enchanted_Daggers

Because it requires enemies to be around in order to get the full healing from it. You get a few little green crystals that float on your character. Each crystal flies out and hits an enemy and you get healed when it hits. If there's no enemies around, all you'll get is the tiny amount of healing from casting the skill.

You're also under constant poison when going through the field in this story instance. Poison reduces the amount of healing you receive by 33%. Revenant skills already heal for barely anything, unless certain conditions are met for most stances, so this makes it worse.

Your best bet would be Dwarf stance since its healing skill has the highest self heal out of all the stances and doesn't have any requirements to get the full healing effect, but the healing is still crappy. It also removes up to 5 conditions. But there's a catch with this story instance:

For starters, the poison from the field is reapplied to you even if you remove it.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Soothing_Stone

Anomaly: This skill will remove conditions after the heal, causing it to be affected by poison unlike other skills that have the same ability.

The healing while in dwarf stance is reduced by 33% due to the poison from the field, even though it removes the poison.

That's the thing I don't like about Revenant. You don't have any good large self heals. Most have requirements such as being close to enemies, getting hit by enemies, or standing still inside a circle in order to get the full healing benefits.

Why not take a staff and slot ventari? You don't need burst heals or dps for the fight. The challenge is basically getting to her. So take Shiro/Ventari with staff and that's plenty of heals.

[Nilkemia.8507]

This instance and "boss fight" is easily among the worst/most annoying I've had in quite some time, probably rivaled only by Caudecus (pre-nerf), maybe Lazarus, and Joko.This instance didn't need to exist, and is yet another reason why now the Living Story is a one and done for me each time.

• Contrived and unecessary (unlike the three examples I gave, which are all fights against a major antagonist, this one just comes out of nowhere and feels like pointless padding)
• The boss is a deadeye with the two most annoying abilities associated with them powered up to eleven (teleporting and sniping). I'm starting to think there should be a rule saying "If you wouldn't give it to a player, don't give it to an NPC/mob."
• Mounts can't be used in the poison, not that it matters, since she could shoot me off my Jackal mid-teleport of all things....
• Branded exploders that are just there cause reasons, and also somehow not affected by the poison.
• Oh, and I did this with a Scourge, so no shroud to tank the poison, and still stuck with the two dodges and no vigor to help. Admittedly, I didn't consider the two teleports, (because I was too frustrated to think of them, and they're both crap), but I doubt they'd have changed too much.
• No option to kill that deadeye scum. No, I don't care that we supposedly saw her before. She impeded our mission and tried to kill us for stupid reasons. I just wanted a "FINISH HER!" to sound once I got to the end, but no. My Commander would not have given her mercy. "Since you love Balthazar so much, you can join him."

So, this instance made me hate deadeye even more than I already do, made me never want to do it again, and sucked the fun and momentum out of the chapter before it was supposed to actually get depressing. I spent the rest of the chapter wondering if they'd try topping that exercise in infuriation, but thankfully, only the escape portion near the end got close. Ugh...

And now I suspect that she's going to try killing us again later.

[Warscythes.9307]

@"Nilkemia.8507" said:This instance and "boss fight" is easily among the worst/most annoying I've had in quite some time, probably rivaled only by Caudecus (pre-nerf), maybe Lazarus, and Joko.This instance didn't need to exist, and is yet another reason why now the Living Story is a one and done for me each time.

• Contrived and unecessary (unlike the three examples I gave, which are all fights against a major antagonist, this one just comes out of nowhere and feels like pointless padding)
• The boss is a deadeye with the two most annoying abilities associated with them powered up to eleven (teleporting and sniping). I'm starting to think there should be a rule saying "If you wouldn't give it to a player, don't give it to an NPC/mob."
• Mounts can't be used in the poison, not that it matters, since she could shoot me off my Jackal mid-teleport of all things....
• Branded exploders that are just there cause reasons, and also somehow not affected by the poison.
• Oh, and I did this with a Scourge, so no shroud to tank the poison, and still stuck with the two dodges and no vigor to help. Admittedly, I didn't consider the two teleports, (because I was too frustrated to think of them, and they're both crap), but I doubt they'd have changed too much.
• No option to kill that deadeye scum. No, I don't care that we supposedly saw her before. She impeded our mission and tried to kill us for stupid reasons. I just wanted a "FINISH HER!" to sound once I got to the end, but no. My Commander would not have given her mercy. "Since you love Balthazar so much, you can join him."

So, this instance made me hate deadeye even more than I already do, made me never want to do it again, and sucked the fun and momentum out of the chapter before it was supposed to actually get depressing. I spent the rest of the chapter wondering if they'd try topping that exercise in infuriation, but thankfully, only the escape portion near the end got close. Ugh...

And now I suspect that she's going to try killing us again later.

Why wouldn't taking sand swell and wurm not be helpful? They are what allow you to easily pass through P2 and P3 of the fight. It is almost vital if you want to go through this as a scourge while getting the achievement. Being stubborn is not exactly an excuse here.

Also trust me shroud is not good here because you can't regen it well after is gone. Without it then Reaper has no dash, so you have to run with warhorn swiftness and sustain from traits. I still got achievement with a lazy setup but I'd say is much easier on a scourge with those 2 teleports.

[Taygus.4571]

@"Nilkemia.8507" said:

I'm starting to think there should be a rule saying "If you wouldn't give it to a player, don't give it to an NPC/mob."

How would you create an interesting boss fight?PvP fights are over fast, tho I also don't think creating AI to mimic player fights would be easy.

• Mounts can't be used in the poison, not that it matters, since she could shoot me off my Jackal mid-teleport of all things....

I thought this was amusing and clever.Most peoples reaction would've been to mount up. I had a moment of wtf before I understood.It added a layer to the puzzle. The fight is mostly a puzzle.

• Branded exploders that are just there cause reasons, and also somehow not affected by the poison.

Enimies are rarely affected by environment conditions. In every game.

• Oh, and I did this with a Scourge, so no shroud to tank the poison,

You ve got sand swell, and you can heal up in the middle.

and still stuck with the two dodges and no vigor to help.

You can also pick skills that help give speed boost.That made the difference for me.

• No option to kill that deadeye scum. No, I don't care that we supposedly saw her before. She impeded our mission and tried to kill us for stupid reasons. I just wanted a "FINISH HER!" to sound once I got to the end, but no. My Commander would not have given her mercy. "Since you love Balthazar so much, you can join him."

Unfortunately it's very difficult and costly to create multiple story lines in an mmo.

I had alot of trouble with this instance. And took I and a friend anfew tries to get the 8min achieve. We did get it and I have started managing to void her shot bettrr. Although I think that will take more practice.

I really enjoyed the instance tho. For all the difficulty I had with it. I found it different and alot of fun.

[Thorfinnr Sleggja.1209]

I can def see the frustration this could cause. I did this on my Berzerker Warrior, and I did not get the achievement(not getting shot) first time through...I wasn't even worried about the timed one since warriors have somewhat unreliable speed boosts(just my opinion). I try to do these first time without checking any of the guides so its a surprise. I didn't realize the woodpiles were destructible environments, and it cost me getting shot on my way to the second position. I did find it challenging, and I do plan to knock it out with my Thief. We'll see how that goes...but again, I definitely can see some frustration for some classes. I really doubt I could do the timed achieve on my warrior. :)

[nedlee.5943]

I did the timed achievement at the first go with 6 deaths or so. I tried blocking, gliding, stealth gliding, mounting up, which all didn't work, and I'm pretty sure I got shot through a solid rock cover once. A LoS bug I assume. Still I had like 20 seconds left in the end but it was bit annoying.

They could've made some NPC give some warnings, but they prefer not to. Some people like to find out things like that with dying a few times, but to some it may feel like trolling. ('ha ha you thought you could mount up?')

[Teratus.2859]

@Purgatori.3645 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:Just wanted to say that all classes have access to teleport now with the Jackel mount..

You can easily use it's teleports to blink from cover to cover as well as the new mastry to boost endurance regen to spam it.

Have you tried this on your Jackel? Mounts are no help in this instance. The deadeye hits hard if you mount or if you glide. They are useless here.

Jackel no but I beat her easily in a few minutes using the raptor to get from a-b etc really quickly.As long as you don't get shot and dismounted it's fine.

[Game of Bones.8975]

If I could make one minor change it would be to add armor repair right outside the instance for those (like me) who died plenty and started over. I even got kicked a couple times for stepping outside the acceptable area.

[Dreamreaver.4908]

Been reading this for a while during random lunch breaks over a few days. The only issue I had with the mission came down to my general impatience. It's what got me shot since I'd just try to rush through it. Had to relax, as eight minutes is a fair amount of time for it.

Anywho, did it solo on Necro, specifically, Reaper, as it's my PvE and story main, and I generally don't bother doing it with other classes so I'll have no feedback on that.

For the first pass, you literally... hop on a Beetle and blast right down the left side. You go so fast, she can't even target you, then just roll right up the series of stairs and start the first fight. The actual melee fight itself, unlike most here, was the irritating point for me, as I dislike health sponge battles even though this one was far from what the game could throw at you (if I wasn't a glass build, I could see myself at that fight for far too long). And then on top of that, she spams evades. I tend to start the melee fights with a Jackal, so I can prepare myself with a brief barrier and face tank some of her initial strikes.

Soon as she phases, jump off and glide to where the next area will be. You can cover maybe as much as 50% of the way there before she sets up to shoot again, so that's a huge plus. When she targets you, you get about two seconds before she'll fire. If you dodge roll during that time, she tends to reset her "aiming time," so use that advantage when going for long stretches.

And, that's all I really got. The main difficulty was... myself. Trying to "Leeroy" through it. Granted, the poison wasn't really an issue for me as I was using the trait that gives you health regeneration while wielding a Greatsword. But, yeah. Two cents.