Concerns about Elementalist

[Shadowz.8374]

Fresh Air builds sucks. My hands can't hit buttons fast enough to play Ele effectively. I could never play Weaver.

[Senji.2048]

@Usagi.4835 said:

@"Senji.2048" said:I would like to mention ele favourite weapon:

Staff

. Why follow the strict rule, that each skill has to be 1200 range? How about giving it a more variability. For example, who ever uses earth skill 1 ? Make it a melee cleave skill. Or the whole attunened elements can differ in usage: some can be long range (like fire and air), some mid range (water) and close range (earth). This example is just an idea, it can be any other way. But the point is, to give ele some options in adapting to actual situation. This goes for all game types. Almost no one playing ele in pvp is using staff. Getting into close range fight in WvW while wielding staff is a death sentece. Conjured weapons are not helping either. Making conjured weapons swappable, the same way like engineer has, might help a bit. But it would require some rework as well. Who ever used Conjured Flame Axe or Conjured Earth Shield? Totaly useless. I hope the conjured weapons doesn't count as a actual "weapons" that ele has access to and thus prevent ele from getting them in future expansions.

This really feels like a bit of a non-issue to me and, in my opinion, these sorts of suggestions over-complicate the class and would limit staff as a weapon. The weaponset you're looking for was mainhand dagger/x which has been resurrected as holosmith. As you mentioned, staff is already fairly well spread-out in a mixture of AOE damage, crowd control and utility. It used to be workable because you had a lot more damage to pressure people with but besides occasionally roaming with it, even I'd admit it's not

meant

to be used for melee. Besides, what's the difference between casting it at your feet (within 300 range) and actually lowering the range to <600 range? I agree with you about perhaps reworking earth auto into a cleave skill but this can be done without lowering the range à la revenant hammer auto.

@Legendofzelda.1278 said:I agree that ele risk vs reward needs to be looked at but ele does have a really high sustain potential unfortunately that potential is locked behind barriers that if you cross those your damage is going to take a huge hit just taking water over fire or air is a very large damage reduction. What could they do to make this better without making ele op? I could give lots of suggestions about what would be really nice for ele and help in many areas like conjures lower lighting flash cd and such but what else?I don't mind that there's a compromise; in fact, I think it should be extended across all classes. I'd rather have more damage than be mediocre at everything because you can be fairly certain that, while the devs are fine with where holosmith is at the moment, they're unlikely to buff d/d ele to those sorts of levels.

I would rather have overcomplicated class, with skills that are meaningful, than have useless weapon skills and utility skills (those I mentioned above, glyphs and few more). The idea of giving ele staff a combination of ranged and melee skills doesn't make things that much complicated. In my opinion, the gameplay would be much more enjoyable. It opens a whole new variety of possibilities, so many new cool skills the devs can come up with. Not much can be done wrong, with skills that are rarely used anyway.

And the topic about damage: I think it's getting buffed too much. On all professions. Everyone is playing full dmg builds , that is a must have in PvE. The game itself just urges players to do that. In WvW, ele is expected to do a big dmg output, otherwise is useless. Makes me wonder, why there are so many types of stats on gear and trinkets. That might be the reason why some skills and utilities are much less used. It's a waste of time using them.

[Usagi.4835]

@"Senji.2048" said:I would rather have overcomplicated class, with skills that are meaningful, than have useless weapon skills and utility skills (those I mentioned above, glyphs and few more). The idea of giving ele staff a combination of ranged and melee skills doesn't make things that much complicated. In my opinion, the gameplay would be much more enjoyable. It opens a whole new variety of possibilities, so many new cool skills the devs can come up with. Not much can be done wrong, with skills that are rarely used anyway.

And the topic about damage: I think it's getting buffed too much. On all professions. Everyone is playing full dmg builds , that is a must have in PvE. The game itself just urges players to do that. In WvW, ele is expected to do a big dmg output, otherwise is useless. Makes me wonder, why there are so many types of stats on gear and trinkets. That might be the reason why some skills and utilities are much less used. It's a waste of time using them.

You're quite a bit more optimistic than I am, haha. I'm not trying to be disparaging. I suppose my point is, "Be careful what you wish for." There's no guarantee that you'd even get what you want from the devs, hence my disagreeing with your statement that suggests it's a given that it would be more enjoyable and that nothing could go wronge. The transmute changes to aura were interesting but definitely clunky. You can tell from the implementation i.e. when your 3, 4 or 5 skill is switched because someone else gave you an aura, which messes up rotations. The devs have a real problem with making changes or introducing new mechanics/content but never revisiting to tweak, change or fix them (this extends beyond balance). Be wary about opening up another can of worms.

Initially, I was going to counter that it'd break the precedent of fixed ranges on weapons but realised it wasn't strictly true as both MH and OH daggers vary in range between 200 and 600. On that front, dagger/dagger really is the weaponset you're after. Trying it in PvE with weaver (in full zerk, of course), it hurts but I'd have to give it more thought and playtime to see. For PvP/WvW, I think it's not fluid enough to compete and again, many dual skills need looking at e.g. the cast time/delay on Mud Slide.

Re: damage, they've recently reneged slightly and have made incremental buffs here and there (e.g. Lava Font damage increased by 10%, previously nerfed by 40% so a 30% loss; moving stats around between Air and Weaver lines) but I'm not happy about the diminishing returns slapped onto Meteor Shower and the Lightning Storm from Glyph of Storms. If they were adamant about the changes, they should've split them between game-modes. As I see it, the problem comes down to fundamental game design: there is no trinity in this game. But for all classes and builds to see equal play in raids, they have to force a soft trinity of sorts even though the game and the classes were never designed for it. It's all artificial tweaking. Wherever possible, people will spec for damage because it's the most efficient. Therein lies the irony.

In another MMO, City of Heroes, you could run 'dungeons' with a full party of support/debuff classes. The devs didn't nerf it. Granted, PvP was dead in that game and so they didn't have to worry about balancing for that but there was so much build diversity in how you chose to play. Their equivalent of 'dungeons' could be run with full ranged DPS or soloed with a certain build/class, and the devs didn't nerf the builds because it "wasn't intended". It was a lot of fun. And there were plenty of different ways to play support. But I digress. I hope you get my point!

[dascott.6078]

You HAD to bring up City of Heroes. I am overwhelmed with nostalgia. ?

[scureuil.4052]

@Usagi.4835 said:

Re: damage, they've recently reneged slightly and have made incremental buffs here and there (e.g. Lava Font damage increased by 10%, previously nerfed by 40% so a 30% loss; moving stats around between Air and Weaver lines)

It's more a loss of 34% than 30 => 100 - 40% = 60 => 60*10% = 6 => 60+6 = 66

[Dante.1763]

@Arkaile.5604 said:@Dante.1763Pray for immortality while you're at it. That's the only way you'll live long enough to see results.

Why bother with that, ill probably move onto another game by that point. The only reason im still here is because i have a ton of skins left to unlock, once im done with that ill be out. Playing my ranger all the time because ele is complete trash in open world PVE is boring as hell and i dont like quite a few of the other classes.

[LordTemujin.5498]

Interresting thread... yes my precious WvW elementalist has been dead for years ... clunky and fragile, borderline unplayable on the battlefield , it has been flushed out of the meta for a loooooooong time...Lets take the staff Backline weaver for example... suicidal and require immense elitic skills , godly positionning and brain wrecking rotation... to do... barely decent damage that the scourge WILL casually do with of course triple the substain and half the work :P ... at the very least that is . Extreme reworking could make this class viable again but i have serious doubts that the dev will do anything real constructive about it. Im glad i had my share of fun and good memories !SO why not use Scourge ? im not lazy no no no no ...Rev !!!? : BORINGGuardian/FB ? not in 100 yearsENgineer ? i lack the brain power :PMesmer ? il confuse myselfRanger ? hahahaha !!!Hopefully they wont break my good ol Warrior :P

Concerns ... ? they are 6 feets under earth resting with my once favorite class : Elementalist RIP my old friend.

                                                                                                                                 ...end of ranting...

[Usagi.4835]

@scureuil.4052 said:

@Usagi.4835 said:

Re: damage, they've recently reneged slightly and have made incremental buffs here and there (e.g.

Lava Font

damage increased by 10%, previously nerfed by 40% so a 30% loss; moving stats around between Air and Weaver lines)

It's more a loss of 34% than 30 => 100 - 40% = 60 => 60*10% = 6 => 60+6 = 66

I'm terrible at math and was also in a rush so thanks for correcting me but yeah, it's a net loss overall which is what irks me. They were heavy-handed and they don't tend to revisit past changes to evaluate their performance in the current meta. It's also partly why I'd almost just prefer it if they just stopped touching ele because I don't want them to leave it in an overall worse position than before; how long would each profession have to wait before they saw another overhaul rework? We've had Deadeye and Herald so far, and I think some of the Herald changes had a lukewarm reception.

@dascott.6078 said:You HAD to bring up City of Heroes. I am overwhelmed with nostalgia. ?I don't want to derail the thread but I'm sorry :disappointed_relieved: . The saddest thing is that I saw GW2 coming out, with no prior knowledge of the series, had a look and thought I'd buy it; a couple months after launch, CoX is suddenly closing down. I regret not having subbed again and spent more time in it. And what are the chances of getting a good, modern-day superhero MMORPG, eh? There were just so many ways to play.

Naturally, it'd be easier if 1) they had a trinity/clear roles or archetypes and 2) they stuck to the original concept and let ele be the defacto nuker it was meant to be but, of course, everyone is DPS, healer, support etc. and there's too much variability in performance/usefulness between professions. The way I see it is you either end up homogenising the classes or they have to start designing raids (and this is where artificial tweaking comes into play) with, for instance, auras in mind. Or change auras and give them alacrity? I don't know. It's a mess. Go away, raiders.

[Senji.2048]

@Usagi.4835 said:

@"Senji.2048" said:I would rather have overcomplicated class, with skills that are meaningful, than have useless weapon skills and utility skills (those I mentioned above, glyphs and few more). The idea of giving ele staff a combination of ranged and melee skills doesn't make things that much complicated. In my opinion, the gameplay would be much more enjoyable. It opens a whole new variety of possibilities, so many new cool skills the devs can come up with. Not much can be done wrong, with skills that are rarely used anyway.

And the topic about damage: I think it's getting buffed too much. On all professions. Everyone is playing full dmg builds , that is a must have in PvE. The game itself just urges players to do that. In WvW, ele is expected to do a big dmg output, otherwise is useless. Makes me wonder, why there are so many types of stats on gear and trinkets. That might be the reason why some skills and utilities are much less used. It's a waste of time using them.

You're quite a bit more optimistic than I am, haha. I'm not trying to be disparaging. I suppose my point is, "Be careful what you wish for." There's no guarantee that you'd even get what you want from the devs, hence my disagreeing with your statement that suggests it's a given that it

would

be more enjoyable and that nothing could go wronge. The transmute changes to aura were interesting but definitely clunky. You can tell from the implementation i.e. when your 3, 4 or 5 skill is switched because

someone else

gave you an aura, which messes up rotations. The devs have a real problem with making changes or introducing new mechanics/content but never revisiting to tweak, change or fix them (this extends beyond balance). Be wary about opening up another can of worms.

Initially, I was going to counter that it'd break the precedent of fixed ranges on weapons but realised it wasn't strictly true as both MH and OH daggers vary in range between 200 and 600. On that front, dagger/dagger really is the weaponset you're after. Trying it in PvE with weaver (in full zerk, of course), it hurts but I'd have to give it more thought and playtime to see. For PvP/WvW, I think it's not fluid enough to compete and again, many dual skills need looking at e.g. the cast time/delay on

Mud Slide

.

Re: damage, they've recently reneged slightly and have made incremental buffs here and there (e.g.

Lava Font

damage increased by 10%, previously nerfed by 40% so a 30% loss; moving stats around between Air and Weaver lines) but I'm not happy about the diminishing returns slapped onto

Meteor Shower

and the

Lightning Storm

from

Glyph of Storms

. If they were adamant about the changes, they should've split them between game-modes. As I see it, the problem comes down to fundamental game design: there is no trinity in this game. But for all classes and builds to see equal play

in raids

, they have to force a soft trinity of sorts even though the game and the classes were never designed for it. It's all artificial tweaking. Wherever possible, people will spec for damage because it's the most efficient. Therein lies the irony.

In another MMO, City of Heroes, you could run 'dungeons' with a full party of support/debuff classes. The devs didn't nerf it. Granted, PvP was dead in that game and so they didn't have to worry about balancing for that but there was so much build diversity in how you chose to play. Their equivalent of 'dungeons' could be run with full ranged DPS or soloed with a certain build/class, and the devs didn't nerf the builds because it "wasn't intended". It was a lot of fun. And there were plenty of different ways to play support. But I digress. I hope you get my point!

Thanks for answer in the first place. I probably am too optimistic. Ele is my main class and I am trying to not loose hope in it. And I know what you mean by the devs and their way of working. This is an example from a different area of a game, but the concept might be the same: that recently added PvP/GvG area in EotM. I entered it right when it came out and saw the potential problems: enemy can get right on the opponents spawn portal and siege deployment is not blocked. Guess what, with some next game patch the siege is blocked and spawns are put on higher platforms. So my point is, if we cry out loud enough, they might notice and fix at least something. But I don't mean just kicking around in anger, but try to give some constructive ideas, no matter how idealistic they are. Let's open some can of worms ;)

[Kirnale.5914]

They also reduce Lava Font's CD, so, to be precisely:

Original State: 8s = 100% DMG (12,5% Damage/second)

After big nerf: 6s = 60% DMG (10% Damage/second)

After tiny buff: 6s = 66% DMG (11% Damage/second)

No nerf, just CD change would be: 12,5%*6 = 75% DMG (For 6s CD without touching it's damage) or easier: 6s = 75% DMG

Still a flat nerf for no reason and is still missing 15% damage from the 60% state (or 9% damage from it's original state).

[Usagi.4835]

@Senji.2048 said:Thanks for answer in the first place. I probably am too optimistic. Ele is my main class and I am trying to not loose hope in it. And I know what you mean by the devs and their way of working. This is an example from a different area of a game, but the concept might be the same: that recently added PvP/GvG area in EotM. I entered it right when it came out and saw the potential problems: enemy can get right on the opponents spawn portal and siege deployment is not blocked. Guess what, with some next game patch the siege is blocked and spawns are put on higher platforms. So my point is, if we cry out loud enough, they might notice and fix at least something. But I don't mean just kicking around in anger, but try to give some constructive ideas, no matter how idealistic they are. Let's open some can of worms ;)

That's what I hope to achieve by bullying people with my soulbeast. :blush: I agree about being constructive though. I think people get very frustrated because they do really enjoy and love the game. It's probably a bit of a thankless job being a dev but it's nice that they're releasing patches more frequently. One minor quibble: I wish they'd be more consistent and, if time permits, open with a summary of their 'vision' or motivation for the changes for each profession.

@Kirnale.5914 said:They also reduce Lava Font's CD, so, to be precisely:

Original State: 8s = 100% DMG (12,5% Damage/second)

After big nerf: 6s = 60% DMG (10% Damage/second)

After tiny buff: 6s = 66% DMG (11% Damage/second)

No nerf, just CD change would be: 12,5%*6 = 75% DMG (For 6s CD without touching it's damage) or easier: 6s = 75% DMG

Still a flat nerf for no reason and is still missing 15% damage from the 60% state (or 9% damage from it's original state).

I'd prefer having the damage over cooldown reductions that could be spun as a buff. 6 seconds was already quite short but currently, outside of some PvE bosses, it's rare that you'd hit people for more than one tick unless they're downed. Factor in protection, damage reduction food and maybe even things like Mallyx rev and it becomes piddly. After the Meteor Shower nerf, it was just too much. Lava Font is a bread and butter skill.

[steki.1478]

@Kirnale.5914 said:They also reduce Lava Font's CD, so, to be precisely:

Original State: 8s = 100% DMG (12,5% Damage/second)

After big nerf: 6s = 60% DMG (10% Damage/second)

After tiny buff: 6s = 66% DMG (11% Damage/second)

No nerf, just CD change would be: 12,5%*6 = 75% DMG (For 6s CD without touching it's damage) or easier: 6s = 75% DMG

Still a flat nerf for no reason and is still missing 15% damage from the 60% state (or 9% damage from it's original state).

There's just a tiny difference. Lava font is useless if target doesn't stay in it..which is everywhere outside of raids/fractals, which were the main reason why it got changed (nerfed). Ironic isnt it?

[Azhkanizkael.1406]

Here's the feedback on ele that I've compiled over a while.

There's a lot of mechanics that ele simply doesn't have that it could use to make it far less useless outside of pve.

• Reveal: ele has 0 access to this, maybe add 1 reveal to an existing skill, otherwise I'm going to have to keep using feel the burn to trigger a burn effect on invisible targets to see where they're at.
• Stealth: ele only has access to this if they're a norn and use the norn racial elite or using a leap through someone else's combo field or using runes for it when you hit 20% hp, I think it could be pretty interesting to give eles a skill that gives them 5 seconds of stealth.
• Boon Removal: ele has 0 access to this outside of sigils. Please give eles something to remove boons from enemies.
• Condition Cleanse: this is in a good spot on ele
• Healing: support tempest is far below par on the healing potential compared to Firebrand, Scourge, Herald, Druid, Scrapper. It could use the application of barrier added to a trait that maybe grants barrier to allies who you grant auras to, and have the barrier start around 1k baseline.
• Auras: please make them stack in duration up to maybe 3 stacks at most, sometimes it's annoying trying to time your auras just to overwrite them 2-3 seconds in them with and not get the full duration possible.
• Skills that decrease in damage based on times they hit: why is this even a thing in pvp/wvw? If anything they should increase in damage the more you get hit by it because you're not moving out of the red ring of death, don't make it easier to stand in AoE over time. IE: If you're getting hit my multiple meteors in a meteor shower it should do more damage each hit because you're not moving yourself out of the area of it. Punish people for standing in AoE, don't reward them for standing in it by making it hit them like a wet noodle by the 10th hit.
• Unblockable: Eles have very little access to unblockable attacks, add unblockable to either the arcane or a glyph that buffs your next X attacks. It would create far more build diversity and make things like Pile Driver potentially useful again with all of the blockable projectile hate.

[Usagi.4835]

@Kaspar.3892 said:Here's the feedback on ele that I've compiled over a while.

There's a lot of mechanics that ele simply doesn't have that it could use to make it far less useless outside of pve.

• Reveal: ele has 0 access to this, maybe add 1 reveal to an existing skill, otherwise I'm going to have to keep using feel the burn to trigger a burn effect on invisible targets to see where they're at.It's not a solution but one workaround is keeping an eye on the screen for minis. You can't put a target on their heads but, for some strange reason, I've seen quite a few perma stealth deadeyes with them out which makes it easier to keep tabs on exactly where they are.

• Stealth: ele only has access to this if they're a norn and use the norn racial elite or using a leap through someone else's combo field or using runes for it when you hit 20% hp, I think it could be pretty interesting to give eles a skill that gives them 5 seconds of stealth.

• Boon Removal: ele has 0 access to this outside of sigils. Please give eles something to remove boons from enemies.

• Condition Cleanse: this is in a good spot on ele

• Healing: support tempest is far below par on the healing potential compared to Firebrand, Scourge, Herald, Druid, Scrapper. It could use the application of barrier added to a trait that maybe grants barrier to allies who you grant auras to, and have the barrier start around 1k baseline.Two things:

• I'm fairly certain Tempest outclasses Druid, Firebrand and Scourge in raw healing output when it comes to sustained AOE healing. Owing to massive outgoing healing modifiers and the regen trait, burst healing is covered more effectively by Herald/Renegade. Scrapper I'm not too sure about but I've seen some of the numbers and Medical Dispersion Field seems very good (plus Purity of Purpose with no icd). If you're talking about support, I'd agree there because all of the classes you listed are more about overall support and utility, rather than just heals. Auras bring comparatively very little compared to 10-target boonspam, buffs, barriers and condition removal/conversion and therein lies the problem. You can either homogenise the classes and give those things to Tempest (since 3 specs are supposed to be support-oriented) or you can think of something else that would be wanted/useful in multiple settings/gamemodes.

• I'm not a huge fan of barriers. It's a headache to have them eat up your burst in WvW where they're also buffered by protection and damage reduction. That said, I'll admit I've occasionally wished Tempest had barriers too and agree generally that auras have to occupy a niche (i.e. a role in the, uh, soft trinity that people have for raids) to make them appealing. Going by Invigorating Strikes, I don't think it'd start at 1k baseline which I'd be fine with. It's obviously a little different for ele, which shares the lowest healthpool with thief and guardian, but I'm a big fan of trade-offs in builds along the lines of speccing for support/toughness/vitality etc. but giving up damage. It should be that way across the board.

• Skills that decrease in damage based on times they hit: why is this even a thing in pvp/wvw? If anything they should increase in damage the more you get hit by it because you're not moving out of the red ring of death, don't make it easier to stand in AoE over time. IE: If you're getting hit my multiple meteors in a meteor shower it should do more damage each hit because you're not moving yourself out of the area of it. Punish people for standing in AoE, don't reward them for standing in it by making it hit them like a wet noodle by the 10th hit.I get where you're coming from but I think it'll be a Catch-22 that'll bite you in the butt at some point. I don't think it should inversely increase per hit but agree emphatically that they should remove the diminishing returns. It's a band-aid fix to curb ele's reign of terror in golem DPS benchmarks. I just hate how patchwork it is. And if they are going to leave it in, could they just revert the change on Lava Font entirely please? As pointed out by multiple posters, people don't usually stand in it and if they do, they deserve to be punished.

[Soap.5098]

I've been an ele main since I got into gw2. I play sword/dagger weaver, and wrote most of this with pvp in mind, because that's where I find it the most frustrating to play.Here's my suggestions:

-Buff the healing on water moves, and for goodness sake, do not make them skills that require being close to an enemy. Sword 3, aqua siphon? When I'm low on health, I switch into water, hit 2, get out of the way, and take a second to heal. I'm not going to rush back in so I can get 650 healing.-Why does mesmer's blink have a longer range and faster cooldown than an ele's lightning flash? And why does blink stun break but not flash? I suggest you remove the damage from lightning flash, it's so minimal anyways. And add more range and stun break. Seems like it would be much more useful to an ele than a mes.-Shorten the cooldown on skills like vapor form and lightning flash, which are often the difference between life or death for an ele.-Consider adding a reveal skill. Would make fights against deadeyes easier.-Would be nice if some of the dual attacks with water (on sword) also did healing. Maybe?-I know that earth is meant to be the defensive element. But it doesn't feel that way. All the earth moves seem to just be 'hit thing' or 'stand still for a long time and then hit thing hard'. Earthen vortex, which acts as an evade, was on the right track I think. And lava skin is absolutely what I think earth should be. Barriers! Maybe a knock back to get enemies away from you? Earth to me feels like it should be about absorbing and avoiding damage.-Again about aqua siphon. That 1770 heal goes to my allies yes? not myself? No sword ele is going to fully attune to water, in close combat, with the intention of healing their allies. It makes double attuning to water worthless.-This one is about staff. If you have snap to target enabled, unsteady ground (earth 4, the wall) will snap to enemies. Spawning a wall right under an enemy does nothing, and it's impossible to move the target to be right in front of the enemy. Not sure why this even snaps in the first place, it makes it useless.-Classes like deadeye and mirage are almost impossible to fight against. They cut you down in seconds, and if they catch you unaware you have no chance. Something needs to be done about the survivability of the class. I am tired of getting hit with 16000 damage in one second, and dying immediately. Add a reveal move so you have a chance against deadeyes. Or minimise the cooldowns of life saving abilities.

[Stallic.2397]

@Jski.6180 said:Blinding Ashes, Inscription (trait), Serrated Stones, Rock Solid, Diamond Skin, Stop, Drop, and Roll, Bountiful Power, Tempestuous Aria, Imbued Melodies, Lucid Singularity, and Woven Stride all traits that are borderline worthless that are effectually not used in any game type at all.

What the point of these why has there been no real update for these for years (Woven Stride not been out as long but has become worthless as a GM at this point). Tempest's traits are the worst of all where you have 2 GM that are not used and are weaker then most classes master level.

Inscription, Woven Stride, Imbued Melodies? Those are pretty good traits. The rest are worthless, but Inscription gives you a great heal on low CD. Imbued Melodies will proc an aura, just like Elemental Bastion, but the health threshold is higher. And last time I checked, Woven Strike would proc Cleansing Water for condi cleanse.

[Jski.6180]

@Stallic.2397 said:

@Jski.6180 said:Blinding Ashes, Inscription (trait), Serrated Stones, Rock Solid, Diamond Skin, Stop, Drop, and Roll, Bountiful Power, Tempestuous Aria, Imbued Melodies, Lucid Singularity, and Woven Stride all traits that are borderline worthless that are effectually not used in any game type at all.

What the point of these why has there been no real update for these for years (Woven Stride not been out as long but has become worthless as a GM at this point). Tempest's traits are the worst of all where you have 2 GM that are not used and are weaker then most classes master level.

Inscription, Woven Stride, Imbued Melodies? Those are pretty good traits. The rest are worthless, but Inscription gives you a great heal on low CD. Imbued Melodies will proc an aura, just like Elemental Bastion, but the health threshold is higher. And last time I checked, Woven Strike would proc Cleansing Water for condi cleanse.

The boons from inscription are no where near as strong as the passive boons ele can get the cdr is nice but only 2 glyphs are viable its just not worth it more so now then back when i posted about it. Imbued Melodies is wh only on a GM the lost of healing for boons and a passive aura with a cast time is not worth it. Woven strike are worst now then when i posted as rev gets ms faster then the 40% mark on ele with this effect as an appit level. If it was a clear effect it should just be a clear on super speed/ swiftness not a trait that only works as long as you have another trait its silly balancing to need 2 GM to have effectually 1 GM effect.

[Usagi.4835]

I'm hoping, come Tuesday, ANet will revert the diminishing returns on Meteor Shower in WvW and PvP and split the skill if they want to leave it like that in PvE. People see it as a buff but consider that your first meteor hits somebody with protection, damage reduction food and possibly a Mallyx rev in their subgroup; your damage is capped at whatever that number is and goes downhill from there. I don't know why they thought changes meant to curb damage on stationary targets in PvE would carry over into WvW/PvP.

[Senji.2048]

@Stallic.2397 said:

@"Jski.6180" said:Blinding Ashes, Inscription (trait), Serrated Stones, Rock Solid, Diamond Skin, Stop, Drop, and Roll, Bountiful Power, Tempestuous Aria, Imbued Melodies, Lucid Singularity, and Woven Stride all traits that are borderline worthless that are effectually not used in any game type at all.

What the point of these why has there been no real update for these for years (Woven Stride not been out as long but has become worthless as a GM at this point). Tempest's traits are the worst of all where you have 2 GM that are not used and are weaker then most classes master level.

Inscription, Woven Stride, Imbued Melodies? Those are pretty good traits. The rest are worthless, but Inscription gives you a great heal on low CD. Imbued Melodies will proc an aura, just like Elemental Bastion, but the health threshold is higher. And last time I checked, Woven Strike would proc Cleansing Water for condi cleanse.

I agree with those traits mentioned in the original post. And would add few more that are imho useless. But again, with the exception to Imbued Melodies, Lucid Singularity and Woven Stride. Especially the Woven Stride was great in the combination with Cleansing Water and Elemental Attunement (Arcane). And I said "was" because it's not that good since they nerfed (or as they say "fixed the bug") of Elemental Attunement, that it no longer gives boon on attuning to the same element. Though I don't really know why they did it. Zephyr's Speed and Electric Discharge still can activate on second Air attunement. Oh, I shouldn't have said that ... now it's gonna get fixed ;)

[Jski.6180]

Go to the build editors and build an ele make the numbers the way you want them or need them to be to what you think is viable and tell me base off though builds that ele is "ok" as a class. Till there anet and the naysayers are not making any realty arguments that ele is ok as is.

Ele is a super tankly class who dose nothing more then keeping it self a live or an all in glass caion who must play on the very well to just do barly viable dmg.That the class nothing about being able to do every thing nothing about being flexible. Your a tank who only tanks or your a dmg who only dmg.

[Aigleborgne.2981]

Playing ele is like GW1 hard mode.My ele can kill nearly as fast as my warrior axe. The former must use a lot of skills including utilities to stay alive while the latter will use 3 or 4 skills at best. My ele is struggling in most difficult fights, trying to stay alive with 15% health and using lava font trait as downed mechanic. At least, it works in pve.I'm having more fun on ele despite all this, and it's the only reason I still play him. I like to put a lot effort to win a fight. Attunement dance is fun.But damage / sustain is awful!I would rather have more sustain for our current damage.

[steki.1478]

@Usagi.4835 said:I'm hoping, come Tuesday, ANet will revert the diminishing returns on Meteor Shower in WvW and PvP and split the skill if they want to leave it like that in PvE. People see it as a buff but consider that your first meteor hits somebody with protection, damage reduction food and possibly a Mallyx rev in their subgroup; your damage is capped at whatever that number is and goes downhill from there. I don't know why they thought changes meant to curb damage on stationary targets in PvE would carry over into WvW/PvP.

Not really. It does full damage to specific target regardless of hits on other people. Damage is reduced on that target only if it got hit multiple times, not if someone else got hit. Aka each target takes its own portion of damage, regardless of number of total hits.

It's still a buff compared to no DR meteors, but it's not game changing. I'd rather see other skills getting more attention since they provide almost 0 dps, even if it means that MS gets slightly nerfed or reverted. I'd rather have reliable dps output than having to wait 25 seconds to get a chance to do high dps (rng, long channel etc).

PS to devs hopefully reading this (wvw perspective): spamming fireballs and lava fonts isnt very engaging either. There's lots of skills on staff (and even scepter) that can have good damage output, but they cant hit due to 1 second cast time and 2 second delay. There's no reason to have skills on less than 6 sec cooldown (current lava font for example) since camping one attunement isnt particularly fun, especially if those skills (like lava font) dont do anything meaningful. Lava font used to be good once when it had both low cd and high damage (3 years ago), but current state is just sad; it was much better before the last bigger change (more damage on higher cd - it was still a good nuke, but you would still swap attunements often due to bigger cd).

[Usagi.4835]

@steki.1478 said:Not really. It does full damage to specific target regardless of hits on other people. Damage is reduced on that target only if it got hit multiple times, not if someone else got hit. Aka each target takes its own portion of damage, regardless of number of total hits.

It's still a buff compared to no DR meteors, but it's not game changing. I'd rather see other skills getting more attention since they provide almost 0 dps, even if it means that MS gets slightly nerfed or reverted. I'd rather have reliable dps output than having to wait 25 seconds to get a chance to do high dps (rng, long channel etc).

PS to devs hopefully reading this (wvw perspective): spamming fireballs and lava fonts isnt very engaging either. There's lots of skills on staff (and even scepter) that can have good damage output, but they cant hit due to 1 second cast time and 2 second delay. There's no reason to have skills on less than 6 sec cooldown (current lava font for example) since camping one attunement isnt particularly fun, especially if those skills (like lava font) dont do anything meaningful. Lava font used to be good once when it had both low cd and high damage (3 years ago), but current state is just sad; it was much better before the last bigger change (more damage on higher cd - it was still a good nuke, but you would still swap attunements often due to bigger cd).

Yes, I know. But my point was that it's not nearly as punishing as it would be if it were 8k hits consecutively, rather than potentially 8k, 6k, 4k, 2k on targets in WvW who will likely have protection most of the time, if you get my point. Although, yes, if I had to pick one change, I'd like old Lava Font back with its higher damage with a higher cd.

[steki.1478]

@Usagi.4835 said:

@steki.1478 said:Not really. It does full damage to specific target regardless of hits on other people. Damage is reduced on that target only if it got hit multiple times, not if someone else got hit. Aka each target takes its own portion of damage, regardless of number of total hits.

It's still a buff compared to no DR meteors, but it's not game changing. I'd rather see other skills getting more attention since they provide almost 0 dps, even if it means that MS gets slightly nerfed or reverted. I'd rather have reliable dps output than having to wait 25 seconds to get a chance to do high dps (rng, long channel etc).

PS to devs hopefully reading this (wvw perspective): spamming fireballs and lava fonts isnt very engaging either. There's lots of skills on staff (and even scepter) that can have good damage output, but they cant hit due to 1 second cast time and 2 second delay. There's no reason to have skills on less than 6 sec cooldown (current lava font for example) since camping one attunement isnt particularly fun, especially if those skills (like lava font) dont do anything meaningful. Lava font used to be good once when it had both low cd and high damage (3 years ago), but current state is just sad; it was much better before the last bigger change (more damage on higher cd - it was still a good nuke, but you would still swap attunements often due to bigger cd).

Yes, I know. But my point was that it's not nearly as punishing as it would be if it were 8k hits consecutively, rather than potentially 8k, 6k, 4k, 2k on targets in WvW who will likely have protection most of the time, if you get my point. Although, yes, if I had to pick one change, I'd like old

Lava Font

back with its higher damage with a higher cd.

Those consecutive hits wouldn't even reach 8k since current strongest hit is 20% stronger than old hits. Damage also doesnt drop nearly as fast as you mentioned, in fact, MS barely hits below 3k and it's usually because of high defense, not because of being hit too many times.

There's literally no issues in wvw regarding meteors, it was fine before change, it's fine now (maybe a bit stronger). It's mostly a pve nerf.

[Usagi.4835]

@"steki.1478" said:Those consecutive hits wouldn't even reach 8k since current strongest hit is 20% stronger than old hits. Damage also doesnt drop nearly as fast as you mentioned, in fact, MS barely hits below 3k and it's usually because of high defense, not because of being hit too many times.

There's literally no issues in wvw regarding meteors, it was fine before change, it's fine now (maybe a bit stronger). It's mostly a pve nerf.

https://imgur.com/a/7eR91x2

Yes, they would. And they did. See attached images, dated April 2018, a month before the change. I main zerk staff weaver/ele and have since PoF launched and before that too. And that's exactly what I said, that if the first hit isn't particularly meaty because of protection, toughness, damage reduction food from Mussels Gnashblade and the like, and possibly a Jalis rev, the damage only goes downhill from there on that target.