Concerns about Elementalist - Page 9 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Concerns about Elementalist

1679111215

Comments

  • @Usagi.4835 said:

    @Senji.2048 said:
    I would like to mention ele favourite weapon: Staff. Why follow the strict rule, that each skill has to be 1200 range? How about giving it a more variability. For example, who ever uses earth skill 1 ? Make it a melee cleave skill. Or the whole attunened elements can differ in usage: some can be long range (like fire and air), some mid range (water) and close range (earth). This example is just an idea, it can be any other way. But the point is, to give ele some options in adapting to actual situation. This goes for all game types. Almost no one playing ele in pvp is using staff. Getting into close range fight in WvW while wielding staff is a death sentece. Conjured weapons are not helping either. Making conjured weapons swappable, the same way like engineer has, might help a bit. But it would require some rework as well. Who ever used Conjured Flame Axe or Conjured Earth Shield? Totaly useless. I hope the conjured weapons doesn't count as a actual "weapons" that ele has access to and thus prevent ele from getting them in future expansions.

    This really feels like a bit of a non-issue to me and, in my opinion, these sorts of suggestions over-complicate the class and would limit staff as a weapon. The weaponset you're looking for was mainhand dagger/x which has been resurrected as holosmith. As you mentioned, staff is already fairly well spread-out in a mixture of AOE damage, crowd control and utility. It used to be workable because you had a lot more damage to pressure people with but besides occasionally roaming with it, even I'd admit it's not meant to be used for melee. Besides, what's the difference between casting it at your feet (within 300 range) and actually lowering the range to <600 range? I agree with you about perhaps reworking earth auto into a cleave skill but this can be done without lowering the range à la revenant hammer auto.

    @Legendofzelda.1278 said:
    I agree that ele risk vs reward needs to be looked at but ele does have a really high sustain potential unfortunately that potential is locked behind barriers that if you cross those your damage is going to take a huge hit just taking water over fire or air is a very large damage reduction. What could they do to make this better without making ele op? I could give lots of suggestions about what would be really nice for ele and help in many areas like conjures lower lighting flash cd and such but what else?

    I don't mind that there's a compromise; in fact, I think it should be extended across all classes. I'd rather have more damage than be mediocre at everything because you can be fairly certain that, while the devs are fine with where holosmith is at the moment, they're unlikely to buff d/d ele to those sorts of levels.

    I would rather have overcomplicated class, with skills that are meaningful, than have useless weapon skills and utility skills (those I mentioned above, glyphs and few more). The idea of giving ele staff a combination of ranged and melee skills doesn't make things that much complicated. In my opinion, the gameplay would be much more enjoyable. It opens a whole new variety of possibilities, so many new cool skills the devs can come up with. Not much can be done wrong, with skills that are rarely used anyway.

    And the topic about damage: I think it's getting buffed too much. On all professions. Everyone is playing full dmg builds , that is a must have in PvE. The game itself just urges players to do that. In WvW, ele is expected to do a big dmg output, otherwise is useless. Makes me wonder, why there are so many types of stats on gear and trinkets. That might be the reason why some skills and utilities are much less used. It's a waste of time using them.

  • @Senji.2048 said:
    I would rather have overcomplicated class, with skills that are meaningful, than have useless weapon skills and utility skills (those I mentioned above, glyphs and few more). The idea of giving ele staff a combination of ranged and melee skills doesn't make things that much complicated. In my opinion, the gameplay would be much more enjoyable. It opens a whole new variety of possibilities, so many new cool skills the devs can come up with. Not much can be done wrong, with skills that are rarely used anyway.

    And the topic about damage: I think it's getting buffed too much. On all professions. Everyone is playing full dmg builds , that is a must have in PvE. The game itself just urges players to do that. In WvW, ele is expected to do a big dmg output, otherwise is useless. Makes me wonder, why there are so many types of stats on gear and trinkets. That might be the reason why some skills and utilities are much less used. It's a waste of time using them.

    You're quite a bit more optimistic than I am, haha. I'm not trying to be disparaging. I suppose my point is, "Be careful what you wish for." There's no guarantee that you'd even get what you want from the devs, hence my disagreeing with your statement that suggests it's a given that it would be more enjoyable and that nothing could go wronge. The transmute changes to aura were interesting but definitely clunky. You can tell from the implementation i.e. when your 3, 4 or 5 skill is switched because someone else gave you an aura, which messes up rotations. The devs have a real problem with making changes or introducing new mechanics/content but never revisiting to tweak, change or fix them (this extends beyond balance). Be wary about opening up another can of worms.

    Initially, I was going to counter that it'd break the precedent of fixed ranges on weapons but realised it wasn't strictly true as both MH and OH daggers vary in range between 200 and 600. On that front, dagger/dagger really is the weaponset you're after. Trying it in PvE with weaver (in full zerk, of course), it hurts but I'd have to give it more thought and playtime to see. For PvP/WvW, I think it's not fluid enough to compete and again, many dual skills need looking at e.g. the cast time/delay on Mud Slide.

    Re: damage, they've recently reneged slightly and have made incremental buffs here and there (e.g. Lava Font damage increased by 10%, previously nerfed by 40% so a 30% loss; moving stats around between Air and Weaver lines) but I'm not happy about the diminishing returns slapped onto Meteor Shower and the Lightning Storm from Glyph of Storms. If they were adamant about the changes, they should've split them between game-modes. As I see it, the problem comes down to fundamental game design: there is no trinity in this game. But for all classes and builds to see equal play in raids, they have to force a soft trinity of sorts even though the game and the classes were never designed for it. It's all artificial tweaking. Wherever possible, people will spec for damage because it's the most efficient. Therein lies the irony.

    In another MMO, City of Heroes, you could run 'dungeons' with a full party of support/debuff classes. The devs didn't nerf it. Granted, PvP was dead in that game and so they didn't have to worry about balancing for that but there was so much build diversity in how you chose to play. Their equivalent of 'dungeons' could be run with full ranged DPS or soloed with a certain build/class, and the devs didn't nerf the builds because it "wasn't intended". It was a lot of fun. And there were plenty of different ways to play support. But I digress. I hope you get my point!

  • You HAD to bring up City of Heroes. I am overwhelmed with nostalgia. 😢

  • @Usagi.4835 said:

    Re: damage, they've recently reneged slightly and have made incremental buffs here and there (e.g. Lava Font damage increased by 10%, previously nerfed by 40% so a 30% loss; moving stats around between Air and Weaver lines)

    It's more a loss of 34% than 30 => 100 - 40% = 60 => 60*10% = 6 => 60+6 = 66

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arkaile.5604 said:
    @Dante.1763
    Pray for immortality while you're at it. That's the only way you'll live long enough to see results.

    Why bother with that, ill probably move onto another game by that point. The only reason im still here is because i have a ton of skins left to unlock, once im done with that ill be out. Playing my ranger all the time because ele is complete trash in open world PVE is boring as hell and i dont like quite a few of the other classes.

    Ember Wandertooth(SB), Lucina Fallenflame(Weaver), Kianda Redpaw(Guardian), Kingslayer, Light in the Dark.
    Why Guild Wars is called Guild Wars

  • Interresting thread... yes my precious WvW elementalist has been dead for years ... clunky and fragile, borderline unplayable on the battlefield , it has been flushed out of the meta for a loooooooong time...
    Lets take the staff Backline weaver for example... suicidal and require immense elitic skills , godly positionning and brain wrecking rotation... to do... barely decent damage that the scourge WILL casually do with of course triple the substain and half the work :P ... at the very least that is . Extreme reworking could make this class viable again but i have serious doubts that the dev will do anything real constructive about it. Im glad i had my share of fun and good memories !
    SO why not use Scourge ? im not lazy no no no no ...
    Rev !!!? : BORING
    Guardian/FB ? not in 100 years
    ENgineer ? i lack the brain power :P
    Mesmer ? il confuse myself
    Ranger ? hahahaha !!!
    Hopefully they wont break my good ol Warrior :P

    Concerns ... ? they are 6 feets under earth resting with my once favorite class : Elementalist RIP my old friend.

                                                                                                                                     ...end of ranting...
    

    Born into the battlefield...For the glory of WvW !

  • Usagi.4835Usagi.4835 Member ✭✭
    edited September 28, 2018

    @scureuil.4052 said:

    @Usagi.4835 said:

    Re: damage, they've recently reneged slightly and have made incremental buffs here and there (e.g. Lava Font damage increased by 10%, previously nerfed by 40% so a 30% loss; moving stats around between Air and Weaver lines)

    It's more a loss of 34% than 30 => 100 - 40% = 60 => 60*10% = 6 => 60+6 = 66

    I'm terrible at math and was also in a rush so thanks for correcting me but yeah, it's a net loss overall which is what irks me. They were heavy-handed and they don't tend to revisit past changes to evaluate their performance in the current meta. It's also partly why I'd almost just prefer it if they just stopped touching ele because I don't want them to leave it in an overall worse position than before; how long would each profession have to wait before they saw another overhaul rework? We've had Deadeye and Herald so far, and I think some of the Herald changes had a lukewarm reception.

    @dascott.6078 said:
    You HAD to bring up City of Heroes. I am overwhelmed with nostalgia. 😢

    I don't want to derail the thread but I'm sorry :disappointed_relieved: . The saddest thing is that I saw GW2 coming out, with no prior knowledge of the series, had a look and thought I'd buy it; a couple months after launch, CoX is suddenly closing down. I regret not having subbed again and spent more time in it. And what are the chances of getting a good, modern-day superhero MMORPG, eh? There were just so many ways to play.

    Naturally, it'd be easier if 1) they had a trinity/clear roles or archetypes and 2) they stuck to the original concept and let ele be the defacto nuker it was meant to be but, of course, everyone is DPS, healer, support etc. and there's too much variability in performance/usefulness between professions. The way I see it is you either end up homogenising the classes or they have to start designing raids (and this is where artificial tweaking comes into play) with, for instance, auras in mind. Or change auras and give them alacrity? I don't know. It's a mess. Go away, raiders.

  • @Usagi.4835 said:

    @Senji.2048 said:
    I would rather have overcomplicated class, with skills that are meaningful, than have useless weapon skills and utility skills (those I mentioned above, glyphs and few more). The idea of giving ele staff a combination of ranged and melee skills doesn't make things that much complicated. In my opinion, the gameplay would be much more enjoyable. It opens a whole new variety of possibilities, so many new cool skills the devs can come up with. Not much can be done wrong, with skills that are rarely used anyway.

    And the topic about damage: I think it's getting buffed too much. On all professions. Everyone is playing full dmg builds , that is a must have in PvE. The game itself just urges players to do that. In WvW, ele is expected to do a big dmg output, otherwise is useless. Makes me wonder, why there are so many types of stats on gear and trinkets. That might be the reason why some skills and utilities are much less used. It's a waste of time using them.

    You're quite a bit more optimistic than I am, haha. I'm not trying to be disparaging. I suppose my point is, "Be careful what you wish for." There's no guarantee that you'd even get what you want from the devs, hence my disagreeing with your statement that suggests it's a given that it would be more enjoyable and that nothing could go wronge. The transmute changes to aura were interesting but definitely clunky. You can tell from the implementation i.e. when your 3, 4 or 5 skill is switched because someone else gave you an aura, which messes up rotations. The devs have a real problem with making changes or introducing new mechanics/content but never revisiting to tweak, change or fix them (this extends beyond balance). Be wary about opening up another can of worms.

    Initially, I was going to counter that it'd break the precedent of fixed ranges on weapons but realised it wasn't strictly true as both MH and OH daggers vary in range between 200 and 600. On that front, dagger/dagger really is the weaponset you're after. Trying it in PvE with weaver (in full zerk, of course), it hurts but I'd have to give it more thought and playtime to see. For PvP/WvW, I think it's not fluid enough to compete and again, many dual skills need looking at e.g. the cast time/delay on Mud Slide.

    Re: damage, they've recently reneged slightly and have made incremental buffs here and there (e.g. Lava Font damage increased by 10%, previously nerfed by 40% so a 30% loss; moving stats around between Air and Weaver lines) but I'm not happy about the diminishing returns slapped onto Meteor Shower and the Lightning Storm from Glyph of Storms. If they were adamant about the changes, they should've split them between game-modes. As I see it, the problem comes down to fundamental game design: there is no trinity in this game. But for all classes and builds to see equal play in raids, they have to force a soft trinity of sorts even though the game and the classes were never designed for it. It's all artificial tweaking. Wherever possible, people will spec for damage because it's the most efficient. Therein lies the irony.

    In another MMO, City of Heroes, you could run 'dungeons' with a full party of support/debuff classes. The devs didn't nerf it. Granted, PvP was dead in that game and so they didn't have to worry about balancing for that but there was so much build diversity in how you chose to play. Their equivalent of 'dungeons' could be run with full ranged DPS or soloed with a certain build/class, and the devs didn't nerf the builds because it "wasn't intended". It was a lot of fun. And there were plenty of different ways to play support. But I digress. I hope you get my point!

    Thanks for answer in the first place. I probably am too optimistic. Ele is my main class and I am trying to not loose hope in it. And I know what you mean by the devs and their way of working. This is an example from a different area of a game, but the concept might be the same: that recently added PvP/GvG area in EotM. I entered it right when it came out and saw the potential problems: enemy can get right on the opponents spawn portal and siege deployment is not blocked. Guess what, with some next game patch the siege is blocked and spawns are put on higher platforms. So my point is, if we cry out loud enough, they might notice and fix at least something. But I don't mean just kicking around in anger, but try to give some constructive ideas, no matter how idealistic they are. Let's open some can of worms ;)

  • Kirnale.5914Kirnale.5914 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 28, 2018

    They also reduce Lava Font's CD, so, to be precisely:

    Original State: 8s = 100% DMG (12,5% Damage/second)

    After big nerf: 6s = 60% DMG (10% Damage/second)

    After tiny buff: 6s = 66% DMG (11% Damage/second)

    No nerf, just CD change would be: 12,5%*6 = 75% DMG (For 6s CD without touching it's damage) or easier: 6s = 75% DMG

    Still a flat nerf for no reason and is still missing 15% damage from the 60% state (or 9% damage from it's original state).

  • Usagi.4835Usagi.4835 Member ✭✭
    edited September 28, 2018

    @Senji.2048 said:
    Thanks for answer in the first place. I probably am too optimistic. Ele is my main class and I am trying to not loose hope in it. And I know what you mean by the devs and their way of working. This is an example from a different area of a game, but the concept might be the same: that recently added PvP/GvG area in EotM. I entered it right when it came out and saw the potential problems: enemy can get right on the opponents spawn portal and siege deployment is not blocked. Guess what, with some next game patch the siege is blocked and spawns are put on higher platforms. So my point is, if we cry out loud enough, they might notice and fix at least something. But I don't mean just kicking around in anger, but try to give some constructive ideas, no matter how idealistic they are. Let's open some can of worms ;)

    That's what I hope to achieve by bullying people with my soulbeast. :blush: I agree about being constructive though. I think people get very frustrated because they do really enjoy and love the game. It's probably a bit of a thankless job being a dev but it's nice that they're releasing patches more frequently. One minor quibble: I wish they'd be more consistent and, if time permits, open with a summary of their 'vision' or motivation for the changes for each profession.

    @Kirnale.5914 said:
    They also reduce Lava Font's CD, so, to be precisely:

    Original State: 8s = 100% DMG (12,5% Damage/second)

    After big nerf: 6s = 60% DMG (10% Damage/second)

    After tiny buff: 6s = 66% DMG (11% Damage/second)

    No nerf, just CD change would be: 12,5%*6 = 75% DMG (For 6s CD without touching it's damage) or easier: 6s = 75% DMG

    Still a flat nerf for no reason and is still missing 15% damage from the 60% state (or 9% damage from it's original state).

    I'd prefer having the damage over cooldown reductions that could be spun as a buff. 6 seconds was already quite short but currently, outside of some PvE bosses, it's rare that you'd hit people for more than one tick unless they're downed. Factor in protection, damage reduction food and maybe even things like Mallyx rev and it becomes piddly. After the Meteor Shower nerf, it was just too much. Lava Font is a bread and butter skill.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kirnale.5914 said:
    They also reduce Lava Font's CD, so, to be precisely:

    Original State: 8s = 100% DMG (12,5% Damage/second)

    After big nerf: 6s = 60% DMG (10% Damage/second)

    After tiny buff: 6s = 66% DMG (11% Damage/second)

    No nerf, just CD change would be: 12,5%*6 = 75% DMG (For 6s CD without touching it's damage) or easier: 6s = 75% DMG

    Still a flat nerf for no reason and is still missing 15% damage from the 60% state (or 9% damage from it's original state).

    There's just a tiny difference. Lava font is useless if target doesn't stay in it..which is everywhere outside of raids/fractals, which were the main reason why it got changed (nerfed). Ironic isnt it?

  • @Kaspar.3892 said:
    Here's the feedback on ele that I've compiled over a while.

    There's a lot of mechanics that ele simply doesn't have that it could use to make it far less useless outside of pve.

    • Reveal: ele has 0 access to this, maybe add 1 reveal to an existing skill, otherwise I'm going to have to keep using feel the burn to trigger a burn effect on invisible targets to see where they're at.

    It's not a solution but one workaround is keeping an eye on the screen for minis. You can't put a target on their heads but, for some strange reason, I've seen quite a few perma stealth deadeyes with them out which makes it easier to keep tabs on exactly where they are.

    • Stealth: ele only has access to this if they're a norn and use the norn racial elite or using a leap through someone else's combo field or using runes for it when you hit 20% hp, I think it could be pretty interesting to give eles a skill that gives them 5 seconds of stealth.
    • Boon Removal: ele has 0 access to this outside of sigils. Please give eles something to remove boons from enemies.
    • Condition Cleanse: this is in a good spot on ele
    • Healing: support tempest is far below par on the healing potential compared to Firebrand, Scourge, Herald, Druid, Scrapper. It could use the application of barrier added to a trait that maybe grants barrier to allies who you grant auras to, and have the barrier start around 1k baseline.

    Two things:

    • I'm fairly certain Tempest outclasses Druid, Firebrand and Scourge in raw healing output when it comes to sustained AOE healing. Owing to massive outgoing healing modifiers and the regen trait, burst healing is covered more effectively by Herald/Renegade. Scrapper I'm not too sure about but I've seen some of the numbers and Medical Dispersion Field seems very good (plus Purity of Purpose with no icd). If you're talking about support, I'd agree there because all of the classes you listed are more about overall support and utility, rather than just heals. Auras bring comparatively very little compared to 10-target boonspam, buffs, barriers and condition removal/conversion and therein lies the problem. You can either homogenise the classes and give those things to Tempest (since 3 specs are supposed to be support-oriented) or you can think of something else that would be wanted/useful in multiple settings/gamemodes.
    • I'm not a huge fan of barriers. It's a headache to have them eat up your burst in WvW where they're also buffered by protection and damage reduction. That said, I'll admit I've occasionally wished Tempest had barriers too and agree generally that auras have to occupy a niche (i.e. a role in the, uh, soft trinity that people have for raids) to make them appealing. Going by Invigorating Strikes, I don't think it'd start at 1k baseline which I'd be fine with. It's obviously a little different for ele, which shares the lowest healthpool with thief and guardian, but I'm a big fan of trade-offs in builds along the lines of speccing for support/toughness/vitality etc. but giving up damage. It should be that way across the board.
    • Skills that decrease in damage based on times they hit: why is this even a thing in pvp/wvw? If anything they should increase in damage the more you get hit by it because you're not moving out of the red ring of death, don't make it easier to stand in AoE over time. IE: If you're getting hit my multiple meteors in a meteor shower it should do more damage each hit because you're not moving yourself out of the area of it. Punish people for standing in AoE, don't reward them for standing in it by making it hit them like a wet noodle by the 10th hit.

    I get where you're coming from but I think it'll be a Catch-22 that'll bite you in the butt at some point. I don't think it should inversely increase per hit but agree emphatically that they should remove the diminishing returns. It's a band-aid fix to curb ele's reign of terror in golem DPS benchmarks. I just hate how patchwork it is. And if they are going to leave it in, could they just revert the change on Lava Font entirely please? As pointed out by multiple posters, people don't usually stand in it and if they do, they deserve to be punished.

  • Soap.5098Soap.5098 Member ✭✭
    edited September 29, 2018

    I've been an ele main since I got into gw2. I play sword/dagger weaver, and wrote most of this with pvp in mind, because that's where I find it the most frustrating to play.
    Here's my suggestions:

    -Buff the healing on water moves, and for goodness sake, do not make them skills that require being close to an enemy. Sword 3, aqua siphon? When I'm low on health, I switch into water, hit 2, get out of the way, and take a second to heal. I'm not going to rush back in so I can get 650 healing.
    -Why does mesmer's blink have a longer range and faster cooldown than an ele's lightning flash? And why does blink stun break but not flash? I suggest you remove the damage from lightning flash, it's so minimal anyways. And add more range and stun break. Seems like it would be much more useful to an ele than a mes.
    -Shorten the cooldown on skills like vapor form and lightning flash, which are often the difference between life or death for an ele.
    -Consider adding a reveal skill. Would make fights against deadeyes easier.
    -Would be nice if some of the dual attacks with water (on sword) also did healing. Maybe?
    -I know that earth is meant to be the defensive element. But it doesn't feel that way. All the earth moves seem to just be 'hit thing' or 'stand still for a long time and then hit thing hard'. Earthen vortex, which acts as an evade, was on the right track I think. And lava skin is absolutely what I think earth should be. Barriers! Maybe a knock back to get enemies away from you? Earth to me feels like it should be about absorbing and avoiding damage.
    -Again about aqua siphon. That 1770 heal goes to my allies yes? not myself? No sword ele is going to fully attune to water, in close combat, with the intention of healing their allies. It makes double attuning to water worthless.
    -This one is about staff. If you have snap to target enabled, unsteady ground (earth 4, the wall) will snap to enemies. Spawning a wall right under an enemy does nothing, and it's impossible to move the target to be right in front of the enemy. Not sure why this even snaps in the first place, it makes it useless.
    -Classes like deadeye and mirage are almost impossible to fight against. They cut you down in seconds, and if they catch you unaware you have no chance. Something needs to be done about the survivability of the class. I am tired of getting hit with 16000 damage in one second, and dying immediately. Add a reveal move so you have a chance against deadeyes. Or minimise the cooldowns of life saving abilities.

  • Stallic.2397Stallic.2397 Member ✭✭✭

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Blinding Ashes, Inscription (trait), Serrated Stones, Rock Solid, Diamond Skin, Stop, Drop, and Roll, Bountiful Power, Tempestuous Aria, Imbued Melodies, Lucid Singularity, and Woven Stride all traits that are borderline worthless that are effectually not used in any game type at all.

    What the point of these why has there been no real update for these for years (Woven Stride not been out as long but has become worthless as a GM at this point). Tempest's traits are the worst of all where you have 2 GM that are not used and are weaker then most classes master level.

    Inscription, Woven Stride, Imbued Melodies? Those are pretty good traits. The rest are worthless, but Inscription gives you a great heal on low CD. Imbued Melodies will proc an aura, just like Elemental Bastion, but the health threshold is higher. And last time I checked, Woven Strike would proc Cleansing Water for condi cleanse.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stallic.2397 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Blinding Ashes, Inscription (trait), Serrated Stones, Rock Solid, Diamond Skin, Stop, Drop, and Roll, Bountiful Power, Tempestuous Aria, Imbued Melodies, Lucid Singularity, and Woven Stride all traits that are borderline worthless that are effectually not used in any game type at all.

    What the point of these why has there been no real update for these for years (Woven Stride not been out as long but has become worthless as a GM at this point). Tempest's traits are the worst of all where you have 2 GM that are not used and are weaker then most classes master level.

    Inscription, Woven Stride, Imbued Melodies? Those are pretty good traits. The rest are worthless, but Inscription gives you a great heal on low CD. Imbued Melodies will proc an aura, just like Elemental Bastion, but the health threshold is higher. And last time I checked, Woven Strike would proc Cleansing Water for condi cleanse.

    The boons from inscription are no where near as strong as the passive boons ele can get the cdr is nice but only 2 glyphs are viable its just not worth it more so now then back when i posted about it. Imbued Melodies is wh only on a GM the lost of healing for boons and a passive aura with a cast time is not worth it. Woven strike are worst now then when i posted as rev gets ms faster then the 40% mark on ele with this effect as an appit level. If it was a clear effect it should just be a clear on super speed/ swiftness not a trait that only works as long as you have another trait its silly balancing to need 2 GM to have effectually 1 GM effect.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Usagi.4835Usagi.4835 Member ✭✭

    I'm hoping, come Tuesday, ANet will revert the diminishing returns on Meteor Shower in WvW and PvP and split the skill if they want to leave it like that in PvE. People see it as a buff but consider that your first meteor hits somebody with protection, damage reduction food and possibly a Mallyx rev in their subgroup; your damage is capped at whatever that number is and goes downhill from there. I don't know why they thought changes meant to curb damage on stationary targets in PvE would carry over into WvW/PvP.

  • Senji.2048Senji.2048 Member ✭✭

    @Stallic.2397 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Blinding Ashes, Inscription (trait), Serrated Stones, Rock Solid, Diamond Skin, Stop, Drop, and Roll, Bountiful Power, Tempestuous Aria, Imbued Melodies, Lucid Singularity, and Woven Stride all traits that are borderline worthless that are effectually not used in any game type at all.

    What the point of these why has there been no real update for these for years (Woven Stride not been out as long but has become worthless as a GM at this point). Tempest's traits are the worst of all where you have 2 GM that are not used and are weaker then most classes master level.

    Inscription, Woven Stride, Imbued Melodies? Those are pretty good traits. The rest are worthless, but Inscription gives you a great heal on low CD. Imbued Melodies will proc an aura, just like Elemental Bastion, but the health threshold is higher. And last time I checked, Woven Strike would proc Cleansing Water for condi cleanse.

    I agree with those traits mentioned in the original post. And would add few more that are imho useless. But again, with the exception to Imbued Melodies, Lucid Singularity and Woven Stride. Especially the Woven Stride was great in the combination with Cleansing Water and Elemental Attunement (Arcane). And I said "was" because it's not that good since they nerfed (or as they say "fixed the bug") of Elemental Attunement, that it no longer gives boon on attuning to the same element. Though I don't really know why they did it. Zephyr's Speed and Electric Discharge still can activate on second Air attunement. Oh, I shouldn't have said that ... now it's gonna get fixed ;)

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Go to the build editors and build an ele make the numbers the way you want them or need them to be to what you think is viable and tell me base off though builds that ele is "ok" as a class. Till there anet and the naysayers are not making any realty arguments that ele is ok as is.

    Ele is a super tankly class who dose nothing more then keeping it self a live or an all in glass caion who must play on the very well to just do barly viable dmg.
    That the class nothing about being able to do every thing nothing about being flexible. Your a tank who only tanks or your a dmg who only dmg.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Playing ele is like GW1 hard mode.
    My ele can kill nearly as fast as my warrior axe. The former must use a lot of skills including utilities to stay alive while the latter will use 3 or 4 skills at best. My ele is struggling in most difficult fights, trying to stay alive with 15% health and using lava font trait as downed mechanic. At least, it works in pve.
    I'm having more fun on ele despite all this, and it's the only reason I still play him. I like to put a lot effort to win a fight. Attunement dance is fun.
    But damage / sustain is awful!
    I would rather have more sustain for our current damage.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Usagi.4835 said:
    I'm hoping, come Tuesday, ANet will revert the diminishing returns on Meteor Shower in WvW and PvP and split the skill if they want to leave it like that in PvE. People see it as a buff but consider that your first meteor hits somebody with protection, damage reduction food and possibly a Mallyx rev in their subgroup; your damage is capped at whatever that number is and goes downhill from there. I don't know why they thought changes meant to curb damage on stationary targets in PvE would carry over into WvW/PvP.

    Not really. It does full damage to specific target regardless of hits on other people. Damage is reduced on that target only if it got hit multiple times, not if someone else got hit. Aka each target takes its own portion of damage, regardless of number of total hits.

    It's still a buff compared to no DR meteors, but it's not game changing. I'd rather see other skills getting more attention since they provide almost 0 dps, even if it means that MS gets slightly nerfed or reverted. I'd rather have reliable dps output than having to wait 25 seconds to get a chance to do high dps (rng, long channel etc).

    PS to devs hopefully reading this (wvw perspective): spamming fireballs and lava fonts isnt very engaging either. There's lots of skills on staff (and even scepter) that can have good damage output, but they cant hit due to 1 second cast time and 2 second delay. There's no reason to have skills on less than 6 sec cooldown (current lava font for example) since camping one attunement isnt particularly fun, especially if those skills (like lava font) dont do anything meaningful. Lava font used to be good once when it had both low cd and high damage (3 years ago), but current state is just sad; it was much better before the last bigger change (more damage on higher cd - it was still a good nuke, but you would still swap attunements often due to bigger cd).

  • Usagi.4835Usagi.4835 Member ✭✭
    edited October 2, 2018

    @steki.1478 said:
    Not really. It does full damage to specific target regardless of hits on other people. Damage is reduced on that target only if it got hit multiple times, not if someone else got hit. Aka each target takes its own portion of damage, regardless of number of total hits.

    It's still a buff compared to no DR meteors, but it's not game changing. I'd rather see other skills getting more attention since they provide almost 0 dps, even if it means that MS gets slightly nerfed or reverted. I'd rather have reliable dps output than having to wait 25 seconds to get a chance to do high dps (rng, long channel etc).

    PS to devs hopefully reading this (wvw perspective): spamming fireballs and lava fonts isnt very engaging either. There's lots of skills on staff (and even scepter) that can have good damage output, but they cant hit due to 1 second cast time and 2 second delay. There's no reason to have skills on less than 6 sec cooldown (current lava font for example) since camping one attunement isnt particularly fun, especially if those skills (like lava font) dont do anything meaningful. Lava font used to be good once when it had both low cd and high damage (3 years ago), but current state is just sad; it was much better before the last bigger change (more damage on higher cd - it was still a good nuke, but you would still swap attunements often due to bigger cd).

    Yes, I know. But my point was that it's not nearly as punishing as it would be if it were 8k hits consecutively, rather than potentially 8k, 6k, 4k, 2k on targets in WvW who will likely have protection most of the time, if you get my point. Although, yes, if I had to pick one change, I'd like old Lava Font back with its higher damage with a higher cd.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Usagi.4835 said:

    @steki.1478 said:
    Not really. It does full damage to specific target regardless of hits on other people. Damage is reduced on that target only if it got hit multiple times, not if someone else got hit. Aka each target takes its own portion of damage, regardless of number of total hits.

    It's still a buff compared to no DR meteors, but it's not game changing. I'd rather see other skills getting more attention since they provide almost 0 dps, even if it means that MS gets slightly nerfed or reverted. I'd rather have reliable dps output than having to wait 25 seconds to get a chance to do high dps (rng, long channel etc).

    PS to devs hopefully reading this (wvw perspective): spamming fireballs and lava fonts isnt very engaging either. There's lots of skills on staff (and even scepter) that can have good damage output, but they cant hit due to 1 second cast time and 2 second delay. There's no reason to have skills on less than 6 sec cooldown (current lava font for example) since camping one attunement isnt particularly fun, especially if those skills (like lava font) dont do anything meaningful. Lava font used to be good once when it had both low cd and high damage (3 years ago), but current state is just sad; it was much better before the last bigger change (more damage on higher cd - it was still a good nuke, but you would still swap attunements often due to bigger cd).

    Yes, I know. But my point was that it's not nearly as punishing as it would be if it were 8k hits consecutively, rather than potentially 8k, 6k, 4k, 2k on targets in WvW who will likely have protection most of the time, if you get my point. Although, yes, if I had to pick one change, I'd like old Lava Font back with its higher damage with a higher cd.

    Those consecutive hits wouldn't even reach 8k since current strongest hit is 20% stronger than old hits. Damage also doesnt drop nearly as fast as you mentioned, in fact, MS barely hits below 3k and it's usually because of high defense, not because of being hit too many times.

    There's literally no issues in wvw regarding meteors, it was fine before change, it's fine now (maybe a bit stronger). It's mostly a pve nerf.

  • Usagi.4835Usagi.4835 Member ✭✭
    edited October 2, 2018

    @steki.1478 said:
    Those consecutive hits wouldn't even reach 8k since current strongest hit is 20% stronger than old hits. Damage also doesnt drop nearly as fast as you mentioned, in fact, MS barely hits below 3k and it's usually because of high defense, not because of being hit too many times.

    There's literally no issues in wvw regarding meteors, it was fine before change, it's fine now (maybe a bit stronger). It's mostly a pve nerf.

    https://imgur.com/a/7eR91x2

    Yes, they would. And they did. See attached images, dated April 2018, a month before the change. I main zerk staff weaver/ele and have since PoF launched and before that too. And that's exactly what I said, that if the first hit isn't particularly meaty because of protection, toughness, damage reduction food from Mussels Gnashblade and the like, and possibly a Jalis rev, the damage only goes downhill from there on that target.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Usagi.4835 said:

    @steki.1478 said:
    Those consecutive hits wouldn't even reach 8k since current strongest hit is 20% stronger than old hits. Damage also doesnt drop nearly as fast as you mentioned, in fact, MS barely hits below 3k and it's usually because of high defense, not because of being hit too many times.

    There's literally no issues in wvw regarding meteors, it was fine before change, it's fine now (maybe a bit stronger). It's mostly a pve nerf.

    https://imgur.com/a/HCo1EeR

    Yes, they would. And they did. See attached images, dated April 2018, a month before the change. I main zerk staff weaver/ele and have since PoF launched and before that too. And that's exactly what I said, that if the first hit isn't particularly meaty because of protection, toughness, damage reduction food from Mussels Gnashblade and the like, and possibly a Jalis rev, the damage only goes downhill from there on that target.

    Broken link. The damage goes downhill, but the damage is already so low in such situation that it doesnt even matter. Protection is corruptible, toughness is mostly used on guards, gnashblade is pretty much just a roaming/gvg food (where ele is already bad) and jalis elite cant cover full meteor shower. Damage also resets on downed enemies, so you need to rely on allies finishing those with 90% dmg reduction, but that's not really MS issue. It's not like you cant stack weavers in blobs.

    I understand what you mean, but such situations are so rare that it's barely a difference. Currently it's easier to kill squishier targets (which are the main damage dealers), but harder to kill tankier ones (usually supports). Once you kill enemy dps, they cant really do much.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    One of the constructive trait changes requested by Elementalists finally became a reality, Heat Sync affecting 10 targets.

  • Usagi.4835Usagi.4835 Member ✭✭
    edited October 2, 2018

    @steki.1478 said:
    Broken link. The damage goes downhill, but the damage is already so low in such situation that it doesnt even matter. Protection is corruptible, toughness is mostly used on guards, gnashblade is pretty much just a roaming/gvg food (where ele is already bad) and jalis elite cant cover full meteor shower. Damage also resets on downed enemies, so you need to rely on allies finishing those with 90% dmg reduction, but that's not really MS issue. It's not like you cant stack weavers in blobs.

    I understand what you mean, but such situations are so rare that it's barely a difference. Currently it's easier to kill squishier targets (which are the main damage dealers), but harder to kill tankier ones (usually supports). Once you kill enemy dps, they cant really do much.

    Link fixed. What I meant was that, from prior experience, say you cast meteors on firebrands/supports rezzing a downed target before the change, you were more likely to down them for that. If not Meteor Shower, then Lava Font would've punished stationary targets but that's not the case anymore. But like I said before, I concede that if I had to pick one, I'd want the old Lava Font from a few months ago back. That would have a greater impact than reverting meteors.

  • LazySummer.2568LazySummer.2568 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 2, 2018

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    One of the constructive trait changes requested by Elementalists finally became a reality, Heat Sync affecting 10 targets.

    Who cares. Warhorn support tempest still won't be taken over other supports in all game modes.

    This is including staff support tempest & focus support tempest because you just dont have the staff's heals in pve and focus's survivablity in pvp/wvw when you run warhorn

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I wonder how they can make an icd+diminishing damage for each meteor but can't make an icd per target for blinding ashes.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    I wonder how they can make an icd+diminishing damage for each meteor but can't make an icd per target for blinding ashes.

    I wonder how tides of time hits multiple times and has no target cap, but phoenix hits 3 times at most.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Question has any of this effected the last balances patch? This has been up long enofe to give real feed back to the devs.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • If we don't count Gaile posts, we haven't heard of a dev in Ele forum since only 382 days (17 september 2017)

  • Nepster.4275Nepster.4275 Member ✭✭✭

    @scureuil.4052 said:
    If we don't count Gaile posts, we haven't heard of a dev in Ele forum since only 382 days (17 september 2017)

    At this point i dont even think they know this sub-forum is here

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Maybe we should start spamming in the other forums again, maybe we can provoke another response...

  • @Megametzler.5729 said:
    Maybe we should start spamming in the other forums again, maybe we can provoke another response...

    Then we will have a response by Gaile

    last Dev intervention :
    Engineer : April 15, 2018
    Guardian : January14, 2018
    Mesmer : May 9, 2018
    Necromancer : May 8, 2018
    Ranger : November 7, 2017
    Revenant : February 6, 2018
    Thief : May 3, 2018
    Warrior : July 11, 2018

    well, they are not very talktative in others forums too

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @scureuil.4052 said:

    @Megametzler.5729 said:
    Maybe we should start spamming in the other forums again, maybe we can provoke another response...

    Then we will have a response by Gaile

    last Dev intervention :
    Engineer : April 15, 2018
    Guardian : January14, 2018
    Mesmer : May 9, 2018
    Necromancer : May 8, 2018
    Ranger : November 7, 2017
    Revenant : February 6, 2018
    Thief : May 3, 2018
    Warrior : July 11, 2018

    well, they are not very talktative in others forums too

    I was thinking about the PVP forum once again... :lol:

  • @scureuil.4052 said:
    If we don't count Gaile posts, we haven't heard of a dev in Ele forum since only 382 days (17 september 2017)

    are you surprised?

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but:

    Core ele in early days was conceptually supposed to be a heavy aoe glass cannon. But turned out to be more Jack of all trades, master of none.
    Then came cele meta, where it was top bruiser with high survivability and damage over time.
    Tempest gave us a boring healing/support/bunker gameplay.
    Weaver is also mostly played as bruiser/point holder although initially intended to be a damage dealer.

    All those specs have one thing in common: they are first and foremost designed just to be able to survive. And that's what ele have always been doing.

    There has never been any variety in the choices, scepter FA brought a different and refreshing gameplay, but was not allowed to survive. I think ele lacks identity, all they have is more weapon skills, but nothing class defining.

    Also, the class is supposed to combo through fields, but why so much disparity between elemental fields?
    Fire fields: 14
    Water fields: 6
    Ice fields: 3
    Air fields:0
    Lightning fields:4
    Earth fields:0
    Arcane field:0

    (not counting underwater fields) And why some fields give an aura and others don't?

    We should be able to combo any time when breathing the air, swimming in water and walking the earth and control them to do our biddings :)

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    With all of the eng buffs i do not get why they dont do a side by side of eng and ele for skill and effect and passive hp / def. Mostly scraper support vs tempest support are they even in the same league or effects for a team the only thing tempest had that scraper support did not was its stronger self protection and now eng has the same effect but easier to get as its a lower on the tree and on the core eng not an elite spec.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Zuko.7132Zuko.7132 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2018

    Elementalist is in a bad place in pvp for two reasons.
    1. Elementalist base stats and active defenses are terrible forcing eles to run survivability amulets, which makes them useless
    2. Elementalists don't do anything better than another profession can and have weak traits.

    How to fix?

    • Give each core trait line a purpose that provides a viable role for ele.
    • Boost Elementalist survivability through trait lines

    Fire
    Fire trait line will be focused around might/damage, auras, and boon removal

    • Minor Traits
    1. Burning Precision: 50% Chance on crit to inflict burning for 2 seconds, 3 sec icd per enemy,
    2. Sunspot: Same as before except it now removes a boon from all enemies it hits.
    3. Burning Rage: keep the same, but add burning a foe grants 10 endurance, 5 sec icd
    • Adept
    1. Empowering Aura: Auras grant 200 power, effect does not stack
    2. Extreme Might10 extra Power and Condition Damage per might stack for ele only
    3. Cleansing Flames: Burning an enemy removes a boon, 5 sec icd per enemy
    • Master
    1. Pyromancers Training, keep the same,
    2. Smoothering Auras: keep the same, but add removing a condition from an ally grants 10 endurance
    3. Cauterize: Removing a boon inflicts damage
    • Grandmaster
    1. Burning Strength: Gain 3 stacks of might for 10 seconds when you burn a foe. 2 sec icd. Deal 10% more damage while under the effects of might.
    2. Explosive Purification: Create a fire explosion when striking a burning enemy that deals damage and removes 5 boons from all enemies hit. 15 sec icd.
    3. Powerful Aura: Any aura you grant yourself is granted to nearby allies, auras grant fury and might

    Air
    Air trait line will be focused on vulnerability, cc, mobility, and critical damage

    • Minor
    1. Zephyr's Speed: Keep the 25% movement speed buff but also add 3 seconds of superspeed upon attuning to air.
    2. Electric Discharge: Keep the Same
    3. Raging Storm: keep the same
    • Adept
    1. Zephyr's boon: Fury grants an extra 10% crit chance
    2. Crippling Weakness: Applying Weakness inflicts cripple and 3 stacks of vuln for 3 seconds
    3. Speedy Demise: Deal 7% more damage while under the effects of superspeed
    • Master
    1. Aeromancers Training: Keep the same
    2. Tempest Defense: Keep the same
    3. Inscription: Keep the same, but add casting a glyph grants a buff to nearby allies that causes their next 3 attacks cast Electric discharge
    • Grandmaster
    1. Fresh air: keep the same
    2. Lighting rod: keep the same, but add electric discharge dazes for 1 second
    3. Bolt to the Heart: Electric discharge now applies 7 stacks of vuln for 10 seconds and Critical hits have a 50% chance to cast electric discharge 3 sec icd, the Electric Discharge applies a five second effect on your target that increases your damage to them by 15%

    Earth
    Earth trait line will be focused on personal protection, stability, signets, blasts, and condition protection

    • Minor
    1. Protective Blast: Gain Protection for 3 seconds when performing a blast finisher
    2. Earthen Blast: keep the same but is now a blast finisher
    3. Geomancer's defense: Keep the same
    • Adept
    1. Elemental Shielding: keep the same
    2. Earth's embrace: keep the same
    3. Stable Signet: Signets grant 1 stack of stability for four seconds
    • Master
    1. Geomancer's Training: keep the same
    2. Rock Solid: Gain stability on attuning to earth, stability grants 200 toughness
    3. Punishing Blast: Blast finishes cripple and weaken foes for 2 seconds
    • Grandmaster
    1. Stone Heart: Protection reduces critical damage to the elementalist by 33% aoe 5 sec weakness when critically hit, 20 sec icd
    2. Written in Stone: Keep the same
    3. Diamond Skin: Remove a condition when struck while under the effects of protection receive 33% less condition damage while under the effects of protection(3 sec icd)

    Water
    Water trait line is focused around support through healing, condition hate, and chill

    • Minor
    1. Soothing Mist: keep the same
    2. Healing Ripple: keep the same
    3. Aquatic Healing: Healing is 15% more effective both to allies and you
    • Adept
    1. Soothing Ice: Keep the Same
    2. Conditional Healing: Heal yourself and allies 2% more for each condition on them or you
    3. Stop, Drop, and Roll: Dodging removes a damaging and non-damaging condition from nearby allies
    • Master
    1. Soothing Disruption: Keep the Same but boons are now aoe
    2. Cool Relief: Foes you chill pulse healing to allies while chilled
    3. Aquamancers training: Keep the same, but remove damage boost and add remove condi from allies on water attune
    • Grandmaster
    1. Cleansing Water: Keep the same
    2. Soothing Power: Soothing Mist is 100% more effective, Healing to allies is 25% more effective
    3. Chilling Vulnerability: Gain frost aura for 4 seconds on attuning to water, Applying chill applies 3 stacks of vulnerablity for 8 seconds, Vulnerability now reduces the damage the enemy deals instead of increasing the damage they take

    Arcane
    Arcane trait line focuses on boons, evasion, arcanes skills, and random stuff

    • Minor
    1. Arcane Prowess: keep as is
    2. Elemental Attunement: Keep as is
    3. Elemental Enchantment: Keep as is
    • Adept
    1. Renewing stamina: keep as is
    2. Arcane Precision: keep as is
    3. Arcane Abatement: increase healing
    • Master
    1. Arcane Ressurection: Good for support I guess, leave alone.
    2. Elemental Contingency: leave as is
    3. Final Shielding: Leave as is
    • Grandmaster
    1. Evasive Arcana: Leave as is
    2. Elemental Surge: Leave as is
    3. Bountiful Strength: Deal increased damage for each boon you have. Gain 2 endurance when you gain a boon.

    Tempest
    Do tempest stuff better

    • Minor
    1. Singularity: Keep the same
    2. Stable Conduit: Gain stability when starting an overload
    3. Hardy Conduit: Keep the same
    • Adept
    1. Unstable Conduit: keep the same
    2. Latent Stamina: Applying vigor grants 20 stamina, Gain Vigor when starting and completing an overload.
    3. Gale Song: Keep as is, but add shouts grants 3 seconds of quickness and 5 seconds of swiftness
    • Master
    1. Invigorating Torrents: Keep as is
    2. Tempestuous Aria: Reduce shout cooldown by 20% the next attack of allies affected by a shout inflict 3 seconds of cripple and weakness and slow
    3. Speedy Conduit: Overloads are available two seconds earlier and channel 25% faster
    • Grandmaster
    1. Unstoppable Singularity: keep as is, but add overloads grant superspeed and inflict cripple chill and immob for 3 seconds upon completion.
    2. Elemental Bastion: keep as is
    3. Imbued Melodies: Gain 300 concentration, completing an overload grants Protection, aegis, stability, and regen for 3 seconds to allies.

    Weaver
    Don't really know what to do with this, but I have a few ideas.

    • Woven stride: Gaining swiftness or superspeed removes condis, nix the regen, heal while under the effects of swiftness
    • Boost barrier application all around
  • Stallic.2397Stallic.2397 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zuko.7132 said:
    Elementalist is in a bad place in pvp for two reasons.
    1. Elementalist base stats and active defenses are terrible forcing eles to run survivability amulets, which makes them useless
    2. Elementalists don't do anything better than another profession can and have weak traits.

    How to fix?

    • Give each core trait line a purpose that provides a viable role for ele.
    • Boost Elementalist survivability through trait lines

    Fire
    Fire trait line will be focused around might/damage, auras, and boon removal

    • Minor Traits
    1. Burning Precision: 50% Chance on crit to inflict burning for 2 seconds, 3 sec icd per enemy,
    2. Sunspot: Same as before except it now removes a boon from all enemies it hits.
    3. Burning Rage: keep the same, but add burning a foe grants 10 endurance, 5 sec icd
    • Adept
    1. Empowering Aura: Auras grant 200 power, effect does not stack
    2. Extreme Might10 extra Power and Condition Damage per might stack for ele only
    3. Cleansing Flames: Burning an enemy removes a boon, 5 sec icd per enemy
    • Master
    1. Pyromancers Training, keep the same,
    2. Smoothering Auras: keep the same, but add removing a condition from an ally grants 10 endurance
    3. Cauterize: Removing a boon inflicts damage
    • Grandmaster
    1. Burning Strength: Gain 3 stacks of might for 10 seconds when you burn a foe. 2 sec icd. Deal 10% more damage while under the effects of might.
    2. Explosive Purification: Create a fire explosion when striking a burning enemy that deals damage and removes 5 boons from all enemies hit. 15 sec icd.
    3. Powerful Aura: Any aura you grant yourself is granted to nearby allies, auras grant fury and might

    Air
    Air trait line will be focused on vulnerability, cc, mobility, and critical damage

    *Minor
    1. Zephyr's Speed: Keep the 25% movement speed buff but also add 3 seconds of superspeed upon attuning to air.
    2. Electric Discharge: Keep the Same
    3. Raging Storm: keep the same

    • Adept
    1. Zephyr's boon: Fury grants an extra 10% crit chance
    2. Crippling Weakness: Applying Weakness inflicts cripple and 3 stacks of vuln for 3 seconds
    3. Speedy Demise: Deal 7% more damage while under the effects of superspeed
    • Master
    1. Aeromancers Training: Keep the same
    2. Tempest Defense: Keep the same
    3. Inscription: Keep the same, but add casting a glyph grants a buff to nearby allies that causes their next 3 attacks cast Electric discharge
    • Grandmaster
    1. Fresh air: keep the same
    2. Lighting rod: keep the same, but add electric discharge dazes for 1 second
    3. Bolt to the Heart: Electric discharge now applies 7 stacks of vuln for 10 seconds and Critical hits have a 50% chance to cast electric discharge 3 sec icd, the Electric Discharge applies a five second effect on your target that increases your damage to them by 15%

    Earth
    Earth trait line will be focused on personal protection, stability, signets, blasts, and condition protection

    • Minor
    1. Protective Blast: Gain Protection for 3 seconds when performing a blast finisher
    2. Earthen Blast: keep the same but is now a blast finisher
    3. Geomancer's defense: Keep the same
    • Adept
    1. Elemental Shielding: keep the same
    2. Earth's embrace: keep the same
    3. Stable Signet: Signets grant 1 stack of stability for four seconds
    • Master
    1. Geomancer's Training: keep the same
    2. Rock Solid: Gain stability on attuning to earth, stability grants 200 toughness
    3. Punishing Blast: Blast finishes cripple and weaken foes for 2 seconds
    • Grandmaster
    1. Stone Heart: Protection reduces critical damage to the elementalist by 33%
    2. Written in Stone: Keep the same
    3. Diamond Skin: Remove a condition when struck while under the effects of protection receive 33% less condition damage while under the effects of protection(3 sec icd)

    Water
    Water trait line is focused around support through healing, condition hate, and chill

    • Minor
    1. Soothing Mist: keep the same
    2. Healing Ripple: keep the same
    3. Aquatic Healing: Healing is 15% more effective both to allies and you
    • Adept
    1. Soothing Ice: Keep the Same
    2. Conditional Healing: Heal yourself and allies 2% more for each condition on them or you
    3. Stop, Drop, and Roll: Dodging removes a damaging and non-damaging condition from nearby allies
    • Master
    1. Soothing Disruption: Keep the Same but boons are now aoe
    2. Cool Relief: Foes you chill pulse healing to allies while chilled
    3. Aquamancers training: Keep the same, but changed damage boost to remove condition from allies on attuning to water
    • Grandmaster
    1. Cleansing Water: Keep the same
    2. Soothing Power: Soothing Mist is 100% more effective, Healing to allies is 25% more effective
    3. Chilling Vulnerability: Gain frost aura for 4 seconds on attuning to water, Applying chill applies 3 stacks of vulnerablity for 8 seconds, Vulnerability now reduces the damage the enemy deals instead of increasing the damage they take

    Arcane
    Arcane trait line focuses on boons, evasion, arcanes skills, and random stuff

    • Minor
    1. Arcane Prowess: keep as is
    2. Elemental Attunement: Keep as is
    3. Elemental Enchantment: Keep as is
    • Adept
    1. Renewing stamina: keep as is
    2. Arcane Precision: keep as is
    3. Arcane Abatement: increase healing
    • Master
    1. Arcane Ressurection: Good for support i guess, leave alone.
    2. Elemental Contingency: leave as is
    3. Final Shielding: Leave as is
    • Grandmaster
    1. Evasive Arcana: Leave as is
    2. Elemental Surge: Leave as is
    3. Bountiful Strenght: Deal increased damage for each boon you have. Gain 2 endurance when you gain a boon.

    Why these changes?

    Fire
    These changes to the fire trait line give the elementalist three roles to invest in, with added endurance regen for active defense.
    1. Boon Removal
    2. Offensive buffs and condition removal through auras
    3. General damage through percent damage boosts and improved and faster might that frees ele from rotation to compensate for having to take survivability amulets

    Air
    1. High single target damage through stat boosts
    2. Playstyle focused around cc and debuffs with some extra damage thrown in
    3. Fresh air is still viable, but now with the revised Bolt to the Heart, air can be a good choice for a damage boost for builds that don't focus on cc or fresh air

    Earth
    1. Provides great personal survivability but offers little to allies
    2. Can focus on stability, protection, or dealing with condis depending on your needs

    Water
    1. Offers greater support options to hopefully bring elementalist back as a top tier support especially if combined with aura traits in fire line
    2. Can focus on aoe condition removal or improved healing or debuffing enemies

    Arcane
    Arcane is alright in my opinion, didn't change much. Biggest change was giving a bit of survivability through evades to make bountiful power worth a choice and give an option for more active defense and damage avoidance at the expensive of the utility offered by the other two gm traits.

    Conclusion
    By increasing the strength of trait lines, Ele will now be able to compensate for its inferior stats and lack of defense. Furthermore, since each trait line focuses on excelling at certain roles, ele will be able to perform certain roles such as boon hate or support at a competitive level.

    Great ideas for improving Core Ele. I like how you replaced a lot of useless traits that most ele's don't use. Also, a lot of the changes now effects Ele as a whole, instead of just one attunement at a time. Fire has the best ideas, cause as of right now, that trait is pretty useless.

    This is coming from a sPvP perspective: For Earth, Stone Heart currently reduces crits all together. Even though you have to camp in Earth. I would rather camp then reduce the protection to only 33% reduction.
    For Water, a lot of people used cleansing wave when I last checked. I wonder what's the response for replacing that one.

  • Zuko.7132Zuko.7132 Member ✭✭✭

    @Stallic.2397 said:

    @Zuko.7132 said:
    Elementalist is in a bad place in pvp for two reasons.
    1. Elementalist base stats and active defenses are terrible forcing eles to run survivability amulets, which makes them useless
    2. Elementalists don't do anything better than another profession can and have weak traits.

    How to fix?

    • Give each core trait line a purpose that provides a viable role for ele.
    • Boost Elementalist survivability through trait lines

    Fire
    Fire trait line will be focused around might/damage, auras, and boon removal

    • Minor Traits
    1. Burning Precision: 50% Chance on crit to inflict burning for 2 seconds, 3 sec icd per enemy,
    2. Sunspot: Same as before except it now removes a boon from all enemies it hits.
    3. Burning Rage: keep the same, but add burning a foe grants 10 endurance, 5 sec icd
    • Adept
    1. Empowering Aura: Auras grant 200 power, effect does not stack
    2. Extreme Might10 extra Power and Condition Damage per might stack for ele only
    3. Cleansing Flames: Burning an enemy removes a boon, 5 sec icd per enemy
    • Master
    1. Pyromancers Training, keep the same,
    2. Smoothering Auras: keep the same, but add removing a condition from an ally grants 10 endurance
    3. Cauterize: Removing a boon inflicts damage
    • Grandmaster
    1. Burning Strength: Gain 3 stacks of might for 10 seconds when you burn a foe. 2 sec icd. Deal 10% more damage while under the effects of might.
    2. Explosive Purification: Create a fire explosion when striking a burning enemy that deals damage and removes 5 boons from all enemies hit. 15 sec icd.
    3. Powerful Aura: Any aura you grant yourself is granted to nearby allies, auras grant fury and might

    Air
    Air trait line will be focused on vulnerability, cc, mobility, and critical damage

    *Minor
    1. Zephyr's Speed: Keep the 25% movement speed buff but also add 3 seconds of superspeed upon attuning to air.
    2. Electric Discharge: Keep the Same
    3. Raging Storm: keep the same

    • Adept
    1. Zephyr's boon: Fury grants an extra 10% crit chance
    2. Crippling Weakness: Applying Weakness inflicts cripple and 3 stacks of vuln for 3 seconds
    3. Speedy Demise: Deal 7% more damage while under the effects of superspeed
    • Master
    1. Aeromancers Training: Keep the same
    2. Tempest Defense: Keep the same
    3. Inscription: Keep the same, but add casting a glyph grants a buff to nearby allies that causes their next 3 attacks cast Electric discharge
    • Grandmaster
    1. Fresh air: keep the same
    2. Lighting rod: keep the same, but add electric discharge dazes for 1 second
    3. Bolt to the Heart: Electric discharge now applies 7 stacks of vuln for 10 seconds and Critical hits have a 50% chance to cast electric discharge 3 sec icd, the Electric Discharge applies a five second effect on your target that increases your damage to them by 15%

    Earth
    Earth trait line will be focused on personal protection, stability, signets, blasts, and condition protection

    • Minor
    1. Protective Blast: Gain Protection for 3 seconds when performing a blast finisher
    2. Earthen Blast: keep the same but is now a blast finisher
    3. Geomancer's defense: Keep the same
    • Adept
    1. Elemental Shielding: keep the same
    2. Earth's embrace: keep the same
    3. Stable Signet: Signets grant 1 stack of stability for four seconds
    • Master
    1. Geomancer's Training: keep the same
    2. Rock Solid: Gain stability on attuning to earth, stability grants 200 toughness
    3. Punishing Blast: Blast finishes cripple and weaken foes for 2 seconds
    • Grandmaster
    1. Stone Heart: Protection reduces critical damage to the elementalist by 33%
    2. Written in Stone: Keep the same
    3. Diamond Skin: Remove a condition when struck while under the effects of protection receive 33% less condition damage while under the effects of protection(3 sec icd)

    Water
    Water trait line is focused around support through healing, condition hate, and chill

    • Minor
    1. Soothing Mist: keep the same
    2. Healing Ripple: keep the same
    3. Aquatic Healing: Healing is 15% more effective both to allies and you
    • Adept
    1. Soothing Ice: Keep the Same
    2. Conditional Healing: Heal yourself and allies 2% more for each condition on them or you
    3. Stop, Drop, and Roll: Dodging removes a damaging and non-damaging condition from nearby allies
    • Master
    1. Soothing Disruption: Keep the Same but boons are now aoe
    2. Cool Relief: Foes you chill pulse healing to allies while chilled
    3. Aquamancers training: Keep the same, but changed damage boost to remove condition from allies on attuning to water
    • Grandmaster
    1. Cleansing Water: Keep the same
    2. Soothing Power: Soothing Mist is 100% more effective, Healing to allies is 25% more effective
    3. Chilling Vulnerability: Gain frost aura for 4 seconds on attuning to water, Applying chill applies 3 stacks of vulnerablity for 8 seconds, Vulnerability now reduces the damage the enemy deals instead of increasing the damage they take

    Arcane
    Arcane trait line focuses on boons, evasion, arcanes skills, and random stuff

    • Minor
    1. Arcane Prowess: keep as is
    2. Elemental Attunement: Keep as is
    3. Elemental Enchantment: Keep as is
    • Adept
    1. Renewing stamina: keep as is
    2. Arcane Precision: keep as is
    3. Arcane Abatement: increase healing
    • Master
    1. Arcane Ressurection: Good for support i guess, leave alone.
    2. Elemental Contingency: leave as is
    3. Final Shielding: Leave as is
    • Grandmaster
    1. Evasive Arcana: Leave as is
    2. Elemental Surge: Leave as is
    3. Bountiful Strenght: Deal increased damage for each boon you have. Gain 2 endurance when you gain a boon.

    Why these changes?

    Fire
    These changes to the fire trait line give the elementalist three roles to invest in, with added endurance regen for active defense.
    1. Boon Removal
    2. Offensive buffs and condition removal through auras
    3. General damage through percent damage boosts and improved and faster might that frees ele from rotation to compensate for having to take survivability amulets

    Air
    1. High single target damage through stat boosts
    2. Playstyle focused around cc and debuffs with some extra damage thrown in
    3. Fresh air is still viable, but now with the revised Bolt to the Heart, air can be a good choice for a damage boost for builds that don't focus on cc or fresh air

    Earth
    1. Provides great personal survivability but offers little to allies
    2. Can focus on stability, protection, or dealing with condis depending on your needs

    Water
    1. Offers greater support options to hopefully bring elementalist back as a top tier support especially if combined with aura traits in fire line
    2. Can focus on aoe condition removal or improved healing or debuffing enemies

    Arcane
    Arcane is alright in my opinion, didn't change much. Biggest change was giving a bit of survivability through evades to make bountiful power worth a choice and give an option for more active defense and damage avoidance at the expensive of the utility offered by the other two gm traits.

    Conclusion
    By increasing the strength of trait lines, Ele will now be able to compensate for its inferior stats and lack of defense. Furthermore, since each trait line focuses on excelling at certain roles, ele will be able to perform certain roles such as boon hate or support at a competitive level.

    Great ideas for improving Core Ele. I like how you replaced a lot of useless traits that most ele's don't use. Also, a lot of the changes now effects Ele as a whole, instead of just one attunement at a time. Fire has the best ideas, cause as of right now, that trait is pretty useless.

    This is coming from a sPvP perspective: For Earth, Stone Heart currently reduces crits all together. Even though you have to camp in Earth. I would rather camp then reduce the protection to only 33% reduction.
    For Water, a lot of people used cleansing wave when I last checked. I wonder what's the response for replacing that one.

    The cleanse on water swap was merged with the water cooldown trait to replace the damage boost, cause damage boost in water is dumb. I hear that, but I don't like the idea of having to camp earth to make use of it. Perhaps 33% is a bit weak though. Maybe 40 or 50 or an added aoe weakness on crit with an icd. A lot of ele is based on rotations so having earth as a reactive panic button doesn't work for rotation builds.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2018

    @Zuko.7132 said:
    Elementalist is in a bad place in pvp for two reasons.
    1. Elementalist base stats and active defenses are terrible forcing eles to run survivability amulets, which makes them useless
    2. Elementalists don't do anything better than another profession can and have weak traits.

    How to fix?

    • Give each core trait line a purpose that provides a viable role for ele.
    • Boost Elementalist survivability through trait lines

    Fire
    Fire trait line will be focused around might/damage, auras, and boon removal, with a bit of endurance regen

    • Minor Traits
    1. Burning Precision: 50% Chance on crit to inflict burning for 2 seconds, 3 sec icd per enemy,
    2. Sunspot: Same as before except it now removes a boon from all enemies it hits.
    3. Burning Rage: keep the same, but add burning a foe grants 10 endurance, 5 sec icd
    • Adept
    1. Empowering Aura: Auras grant 200 power, effect does not stack
    2. Extreme Might10 extra Power and Condition Damage per might stack for ele only
    3. Cleansing Flames: Burning an enemy removes a boon, 5 sec icd per enemy
    • Master
    1. Pyromancers Training, keep the same,
    2. Smoothering Auras: keep the same, but add removing a condition from an ally grants 10 endurance
    3. Cauterize: Removing a boon inflicts damage
    • Grandmaster
    1. Burning Strength: Gain 3 stacks of might for 10 seconds when you burn a foe. 2 sec icd. Deal 10% more damage while under the effects of might.
    2. Explosive Purification: Create a fire explosion when striking a burning enemy that deals damage and removes 5 boons from all enemies hit. 15 sec icd.
    3. Powerful Aura: Any aura you grant yourself is granted to nearby allies, auras grant fury and might

    Air
    Air trait line will be focused on vulnerability, cc, mobility, and critical damage

    *Minor
    1. Zephyr's Speed: Keep the 25% movement speed buff but also add 3 seconds of superspeed upon attuning to air.
    2. Electric Discharge: Keep the Same
    3. Raging Storm: keep the same

    • Adept
    1. Zephyr's boon: Fury grants an extra 10% crit chance
    2. Crippling Weakness: Applying Weakness inflicts cripple and 3 stacks of vuln for 3 seconds
    3. Speedy Demise: Deal 7% more damage while under the effects of superspeed
    • Master
    1. Aeromancers Training: Keep the same
    2. Tempest Defense: Keep the same
    3. Inscription: Keep the same, but add casting a glyph grants a buff to nearby allies that causes their next 3 attacks cast Electric discharge
    • Grandmaster
    1. Fresh air: keep the same
    2. Lighting rod: keep the same, but add electric discharge dazes for 1 second
    3. Bolt to the Heart: Electric discharge now applies 7 stacks of vuln for 10 seconds and Critical hits have a 50% chance to cast electric discharge 3 sec icd, the Electric Discharge applies a five second effect on your target that increases your damage to them by 15%

    Earth
    Earth trait line will be focused on personal protection, stability, signets, blasts, and condition protection

    • Minor
    1. Protective Blast: Gain Protection for 3 seconds when performing a blast finisher
    2. Earthen Blast: keep the same but is now a blast finisher
    3. Geomancer's defense: Keep the same
    • Adept
    1. Elemental Shielding: keep the same
    2. Earth's embrace: keep the same
    3. Stable Signet: Signets grant 1 stack of stability for four seconds
    • Master
    1. Geomancer's Training: keep the same
    2. Rock Solid: Gain stability on attuning to earth, stability grants 200 toughness
    3. Punishing Blast: Blast finishes cripple and weaken foes for 2 seconds
    • Grandmaster
    1. Stone Heart: Protection reduces critical damage to the elementalist by 50%
    2. Written in Stone: Keep the same
    3. Diamond Skin: Remove a condition when struck while under the effects of protection receive 33% less condition damage while under the effects of protection(3 sec icd)

    Water
    Water trait line is focused around support through healing, condition hate, and chill

    • Minor
    1. Soothing Mist: keep the same
    2. Healing Ripple: keep the same
    3. Aquatic Healing: Healing is 15% more effective both to allies and you
    • Adept
    1. Soothing Ice: Keep the Same
    2. Conditional Healing: Heal yourself and allies 2% more for each condition on them or you
    3. Stop, Drop, and Roll: Dodging removes a damaging and non-damaging condition from nearby allies
    • Master
    1. Soothing Disruption: Keep the Same but boons are now aoe
    2. Cool Relief: Foes you chill pulse healing to allies while chilled
    3. Aquamancers training: Keep the same, but changed damage boost to remove condition from allies on attuning to water
    • Grandmaster
    1. Cleansing Water: Keep the same
    2. Soothing Power: Soothing Mist is 100% more effective, Healing to allies is 25% more effective
    3. Chilling Vulnerability: Gain frost aura for 4 seconds on attuning to water, Applying chill applies 3 stacks of vulnerablity for 8 seconds, Vulnerability now reduces the damage the enemy deals instead of increasing the damage they take

    Arcane
    Arcane trait line focuses on boons, evasion, arcanes skills, and random stuff

    • Minor
    1. Arcane Prowess: keep as is
    2. Elemental Attunement: Keep as is
    3. Elemental Enchantment: Keep as is
    • Adept
    1. Renewing stamina: keep as is
    2. Arcane Precision: keep as is
    3. Arcane Abatement: increase healing
    • Master
    1. Arcane Ressurection: Good for support i guess, leave alone.
    2. Elemental Contingency: leave as is
    3. Final Shielding: Leave as is
    • Grandmaster
    1. Evasive Arcana: Leave as is
    2. Elemental Surge: Leave as is
    3. Bountiful Strenght: Deal increased damage for each boon you have. Gain 2 endurance when you gain a boon.

    Why these changes?

    Fire
    These changes to the fire trait line give the elementalist three roles to invest in, with added endurance regen for active defense.
    1. Boon Removal
    2. Offensive buffs and condition removal through auras
    3. General damage through percent damage boosts and improved and faster might that frees ele from rotation to compensate for having to take survivability amulets

    Air
    1. High single target damage through stat boosts
    2. Playstyle focused around cc and debuffs with some extra damage thrown in
    3. Fresh air is still viable, but now with the revised Bolt to the Heart, air can be a good choice for a damage boost for builds that don't focus on cc or fresh air

    Earth
    1. Provides great personal survivability but offers little to allies
    2. Can focus on stability, protection, or dealing with condis depending on your needs

    Water
    1. Offers greater support options to hopefully bring elementalist back as a top tier support especially if combined with aura traits in fire line
    2. Can focus on aoe condition removal or improved healing or debuffing enemies

    Arcane
    Arcane is alright in my opinion, didn't change much. Biggest change was giving a bit of survivability through evades to make bountiful power worth a choice and give an option for more active defense and damage avoidance at the expensive of the utility offered by the other two gm traits.

    Conclusion
    By increasing the strength of trait lines, Ele will now be able to compensate for its inferior stats and lack of defense. Furthermore, since each trait line focuses on excelling at certain roles, ele will be able to perform certain roles such as boon hate or support at a competitive level.

    I see some issues, but I also like some trait-merge suggestions and additional efects on traits like sunspot, stop drop & roll, lightning rod (might be a bit too strong with no icd though) etc.

    Some major traits focus on same thing (in both your suggestions and game currently), which should be avoided (for example all air GM traits are damage focused, leaving no place for potential mobility, CC, vuln or support traits; similar with water GMs who have no offensive alternative).

    Core ele has terrible aura application, there's no need for more than one aura improvement trait per spec, like the current one in fire (cleanse on application + detonation). Buffing with auras should be tempest's job, half of its traits are worthless anyway.

    You have no viable traits for condi builds.

    I'd also like to mention that ele is class with lowest amount of base stats, so it needs to have additional stats through traits (a lot of classes have such traits regardless of their base stat dominance, on top of semi easy uptime of both stat buffs and certain boons, most notably might). Weaver and tempest do a decent job with their minor traits, but they are elite specs, not core. Current first minor traits on core specs are quite good, they are just very hard to upkeep and they still cant compare to some traits on other classes (warr gets 1k toughness from one trait).

    The reason why ele is weak as "solo" class is due to weak base values on skills. The reason why ele has biggest damage potential in game is because lots of skills scale incredibly well with power. Ele cant buff itself to reach high numbers on its own. Even if it could buff itself, ele cant invest everything into offense due to fragile nature. That's why we need passive self buffs with easier uptime, or just higher base damage/heal values on skills.

  • Zuko.7132Zuko.7132 Member ✭✭✭

    @steki.1478 said:

    I see some issues, but I also like some trait-merge suggestions and additional efects on traits like sunspot, stop drop & roll, lightning rod (might be a bit too strong with no icd though) etc.

    Some major traits focus on same thing (in both your suggestions and game currently), which should be avoided (for example all air GM traits are damage focused, leaving no place for potential mobility, CC, vuln or support traits; similar with water GMs who have no offensive alternative).

    Core ele has terrible aura application, there's no need for more than one aura improvement trait per spec, like the current one in fire (cleanse on application + detonation). Buffing with auras should be tempest's job, half of its traits are worthless anyway.

    You have no viable traits for condi builds.

    Well as far as air GM goes, they all support different playstyles. One does focus on cc and debuffing with weakness, and the other through vulnerability application, while fresh air is pure damage and utility. I think air in general should be a damage line, plus the mobility through superspeed is already there. Just different choices on how to do damage with different choices being superior for different weaponsets. I see your point, but I think traitlines such as water and air should have a general theme such as damage or support but different ways to implement that support or damage where the optimal one varies based on your weapon choice and the enemy comp. For example in water, there are straight healing options, condition removal options, or debuffing the enemy options.

    As far as auras go, with these new traits a d/d core elementalist Elementalist running water fire arcane would get 4 seconds of aura uptime from attuning to water, 4 from attuning to fire, the frost aura on crit, lightning aura from air 3, frost aura from water 4, and fire aura from earth 3 in fire field, which would all be aoe, remove conditions, grant vigor, grant fury, grant might, and grant 200 power to allies, so i don't think auras would be too bad for core under this. Auras are certainly better with tempest, but the fire traitline is the only one that's actually dedicated to auras and then only with one trait in each choice. The frost auras in water serve other purposes such as cleansing condi and inflicting chill for healing and damage reduction.

  • Zuko.7132Zuko.7132 Member ✭✭✭

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Zuko.7132 said:
    Elementalist is in a bad place in pvp for two reasons.
    1. Elementalist base stats and active defenses are terrible forcing eles to run survivability amulets, which makes them useless
    2. Elementalists don't do anything better than another profession can and have weak traits.

    How to fix?

    • Give each core trait line a purpose that provides a viable role for ele.
    • Boost Elementalist survivability through trait lines

    Fire
    Fire trait line will be focused around might/damage, auras, and boon removal, with a bit of endurance regen

    • Minor Traits
    1. Burning Precision: 50% Chance on crit to inflict burning for 2 seconds, 3 sec icd per enemy,
    2. Sunspot: Same as before except it now removes a boon from all enemies it hits.
    3. Burning Rage: keep the same, but add burning a foe grants 10 endurance, 5 sec icd
    • Adept
    1. Empowering Aura: Auras grant 200 power, effect does not stack
    2. Extreme Might10 extra Power and Condition Damage per might stack for ele only
    3. Cleansing Flames: Burning an enemy removes a boon, 5 sec icd per enemy
    • Master
    1. Pyromancers Training, keep the same,
    2. Smoothering Auras: keep the same, but add removing a condition from an ally grants 10 endurance
    3. Cauterize: Removing a boon inflicts damage
    • Grandmaster
    1. Burning Strength: Gain 3 stacks of might for 10 seconds when you burn a foe. 2 sec icd. Deal 10% more damage while under the effects of might.
    2. Explosive Purification: Create a fire explosion when striking a burning enemy that deals damage and removes 5 boons from all enemies hit. 15 sec icd.
    3. Powerful Aura: Any aura you grant yourself is granted to nearby allies, auras grant fury and might

    Air
    Air trait line will be focused on vulnerability, cc, mobility, and critical damage

    *Minor
    1. Zephyr's Speed: Keep the 25% movement speed buff but also add 3 seconds of superspeed upon attuning to air.
    2. Electric Discharge: Keep the Same
    3. Raging Storm: keep the same

    • Adept
    1. Zephyr's boon: Fury grants an extra 10% crit chance
    2. Crippling Weakness: Applying Weakness inflicts cripple and 3 stacks of vuln for 3 seconds
    3. Speedy Demise: Deal 7% more damage while under the effects of superspeed
    • Master
    1. Aeromancers Training: Keep the same
    2. Tempest Defense: Keep the same
    3. Inscription: Keep the same, but add casting a glyph grants a buff to nearby allies that causes their next 3 attacks cast Electric discharge
    • Grandmaster
    1. Fresh air: keep the same
    2. Lighting rod: keep the same, but add electric discharge dazes for 1 second
    3. Bolt to the Heart: Electric discharge now applies 7 stacks of vuln for 10 seconds and Critical hits have a 50% chance to cast electric discharge 3 sec icd, the Electric Discharge applies a five second effect on your target that increases your damage to them by 15%

    Earth
    Earth trait line will be focused on personal protection, stability, signets, blasts, and condition protection

    • Minor
    1. Protective Blast: Gain Protection for 3 seconds when performing a blast finisher
    2. Earthen Blast: keep the same but is now a blast finisher
    3. Geomancer's defense: Keep the same
    • Adept
    1. Elemental Shielding: keep the same
    2. Earth's embrace: keep the same
    3. Stable Signet: Signets grant 1 stack of stability for four seconds
    • Master
    1. Geomancer's Training: keep the same
    2. Rock Solid: Gain stability on attuning to earth, stability grants 200 toughness
    3. Punishing Blast: Blast finishes cripple and weaken foes for 2 seconds
    • Grandmaster
    1. Stone Heart: Protection reduces critical damage to the elementalist by 50%
    2. Written in Stone: Keep the same
    3. Diamond Skin: Remove a condition when struck while under the effects of protection receive 33% less condition damage while under the effects of protection(3 sec icd)

    Water
    Water trait line is focused around support through healing, condition hate, and chill

    • Minor
    1. Soothing Mist: keep the same
    2. Healing Ripple: keep the same
    3. Aquatic Healing: Healing is 15% more effective both to allies and you
    • Adept
    1. Soothing Ice: Keep the Same
    2. Conditional Healing: Heal yourself and allies 2% more for each condition on them or you
    3. Stop, Drop, and Roll: Dodging removes a damaging and non-damaging condition from nearby allies
    • Master
    1. Soothing Disruption: Keep the Same but boons are now aoe
    2. Cool Relief: Foes you chill pulse healing to allies while chilled
    3. Aquamancers training: Keep the same, but changed damage boost to remove condition from allies on attuning to water
    • Grandmaster
    1. Cleansing Water: Keep the same
    2. Soothing Power: Soothing Mist is 100% more effective, Healing to allies is 25% more effective
    3. Chilling Vulnerability: Gain frost aura for 4 seconds on attuning to water, Applying chill applies 3 stacks of vulnerablity for 8 seconds, Vulnerability now reduces the damage the enemy deals instead of increasing the damage they take

    Arcane
    Arcane trait line focuses on boons, evasion, arcanes skills, and random stuff

    • Minor
    1. Arcane Prowess: keep as is
    2. Elemental Attunement: Keep as is
    3. Elemental Enchantment: Keep as is
    • Adept
    1. Renewing stamina: keep as is
    2. Arcane Precision: keep as is
    3. Arcane Abatement: increase healing
    • Master
    1. Arcane Ressurection: Good for support i guess, leave alone.
    2. Elemental Contingency: leave as is
    3. Final Shielding: Leave as is
    • Grandmaster
    1. Evasive Arcana: Leave as is
    2. Elemental Surge: Leave as is
    3. Bountiful Strenght: Deal increased damage for each boon you have. Gain 2 endurance when you gain a boon.

    Why these changes?

    Fire
    These changes to the fire trait line give the elementalist three roles to invest in, with added endurance regen for active defense.
    1. Boon Removal
    2. Offensive buffs and condition removal through auras
    3. General damage through percent damage boosts and improved and faster might that frees ele from rotation to compensate for having to take survivability amulets

    Air
    1. High single target damage through stat boosts
    2. Playstyle focused around cc and debuffs with some extra damage thrown in
    3. Fresh air is still viable, but now with the revised Bolt to the Heart, air can be a good choice for a damage boost for builds that don't focus on cc or fresh air

    Earth
    1. Provides great personal survivability but offers little to allies
    2. Can focus on stability, protection, or dealing with condis depending on your needs

    Water
    1. Offers greater support options to hopefully bring elementalist back as a top tier support especially if combined with aura traits in fire line
    2. Can focus on aoe condition removal or improved healing or debuffing enemies

    Arcane
    Arcane is alright in my opinion, didn't change much. Biggest change was giving a bit of survivability through evades to make bountiful power worth a choice and give an option for more active defense and damage avoidance at the expensive of the utility offered by the other two gm traits.

    Conclusion
    By increasing the strength of trait lines, Ele will now be able to compensate for its inferior stats and lack of defense. Furthermore, since each trait line focuses on excelling at certain roles, ele will be able to perform certain roles such as boon hate or support at a competitive level.

    I see some issues, but I also like some trait-merge suggestions and additional efects on traits like sunspot, stop drop & roll, lightning rod (might be a bit too strong with no icd though) etc.

    Some major traits focus on same thing (in both your suggestions and game currently), which should be avoided (for example all air GM traits are damage focused, leaving no place for potential mobility, CC, vuln or support traits; similar with water GMs who have no offensive alternative).

    Core ele has terrible aura application, there's no need for more than one aura improvement trait per spec, like the current one in fire (cleanse on application + detonation). Buffing with auras should be tempest's job, half of its traits are worthless anyway.

    You have no viable traits for condi builds.

    I'd also like to mention that ele is class with lowest amount of base stats, so it needs to have additional stats through traits (a lot of classes have such traits regardless of their base stat dominance, on top of semi easy uptime of both stat buffs and certain boons, most notably might). Weaver and tempest do a decent job with their minor traits, but they are elite specs, not core. Current first minor traits on core specs are quite good, they are just very hard to upkeep and they still cant compare to some traits on other classes (warr gets 1k toughness from one trait).

    The reason why ele is weak as "solo" class is due to weak base values on skills. The reason why ele has biggest damage potential in game is because lots of skills scale incredibly well with power. Ele cant buff itself to reach high numbers on its own. Even if it could buff itself, ele cant invest everything into offense due to fragile nature. That's why we need passive self buffs with easier uptime, or just higher base damage/heal values on skills.

    As far as condi goes, ele doesn't have a viable condi weapon set. We can get some nice hybrid damage, but sole condi will always be inferior which is why I don't have much condi stuff. I tried to compensate for the low base stats with the improved might, faster might stacking, and percent damage increases in fire, which should apply even if not attuned to fire. I gave air some flat damage modifiers as well as stat increases or damage increase through vuln or procced attacks which should also help. In earth i enabled more frequent and improved prot as well as a toughness boost which is possible while under stab. For water I made the healing boost also apply to the ele for the minor trait.

  • hashmonkey.2501hashmonkey.2501 Member ✭✭
    edited October 7, 2018

    Would love to see some more survivability without needing to play support. Every other class can play a good dps build without sacrificing too much of it's survivability (like rev, necro, mesmer, engi, war,.... well basically all of them). Also I think that ele has the problem of underperforming at every role to some other proffesion. Basically anything we can do they can do better. I though that weaver would achieve this but it's just another variation of the same thing.

  • @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    Those of you who care about the ele and its balance, please join this thread and continue to add your thoughtful and constructive comments. Thank you.

    Constructive comments... great but is there any possibilites for constructive changes? Or it will be again something "constructive" like 5 % more for barrier and something 5 % less health points for example :)

    I feel like Boon Master. No! Wait! I'm elementalist...

  • TheDevice.2751TheDevice.2751 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2018

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Quasar.1756 said:
    Ok, so let's get to the nitty gritty of things.

    What is the "biggest' issue with Elementalists? - and - What can Anet do to satisfy / appease the Elementalist community of GW2?

    All replies are welcomed.

    just some:
    low HP: Why do Necros have more HP, good health, can cast long time marks and wells on the move and do their walking aoe of death run?

    I'll answer this one. Because necro's have something called cooldowns. What they don't have are invulns, blocks, evades or some pseudo-immunity to conditions.
    By all means, give necros less overall health, but let us get some good invluns, blocks and reflects to compensate. And if you're going to lower our health, lets not have our shroud be depended on how much health we have. Maybe that's the issue. Lets have a nice bulky amount across the board so we can also run zerkers like every other class in the game.

    CCs: a joke

    the only ones not laughing are necros. Especially core necro. Yuck

  • no, they have real immunity to condis.....
    Putrid Mark
    Deathly Swarm
    Consume Conditions
    Plague Signet

    traits:
    spiteful renewal
    plague sending
    shrouded removal
    necromantic corruption
    unholy martyr
    speed of shadows
    relentless pursuit
    abravisve grit

    for evade:
    Fleshwurm
    Ripple of Horror

    seriously... with all that and the insane high barrier, necros are the last class who has anything to complain about. Even if they lost 10k hp.

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.