Is the game balanced yet? and what needs changed — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Is the game balanced yet? and what needs changed

Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited October 4, 2018 in PVP

So which needs balanced still? what needs balanced in pvp and how can we fix it to make pvp better?

Here is my list of characters i got so far:

Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

Is the game balanced yet? and what needs changed 52 votes

Mesmers are still unbalanced please specify
42%
Crinn.7864Germane Hawk.8931Hot Boy.7138BadMed.3846Aza.2105Ziggityzog.7389Slapinator.4196Master Ketsu.4569Milan.9035Emapudapus.1307shadowpass.4236DanAlcedo.3281Toron.4856Stallic.2397Namless.4028Nash.3974Wisty.4135Pati.2438Zawn.9647Soap.5098 22 votes
Thieves are unbalanced with deadeye please specify why in the comments
11%
Devilman.1532blackysharky.7581Switch.4892Okami Amaterasu.9237Tails.9372Matiole.6857 6 votes
Ranger with either soulbeast or druid spec is unbalanced please specify why
3%
K THEN.5162Zero.3871 2 votes
Engineers are unbalanced with scrapper or with holosmith specify why
21%
Krispera.5087Trevor Boyer.6524witcher.3197zHasgard.9827TheBravery.9615Raiden The Beast.3016Lumpy Forehead.2193Magolith.9412NaturallyNick.4058Derm.4932ZeroTheCat.2684 11 votes
Necromancers with reaper or scourge specify why
7%
Arheundel.6451FlOwMaKeRs.8623Dark Knight.6294nortask.8351 4 votes
Revenants are unbalanced with herald or renegade please specify why
3%
Blanche Neige.7241apricotprophet.9302 2 votes
Guardian is unbalanced with firebrand or the older spec please specify why
1%
Tiah.3091 1 vote
Warriors are unbalanced with berserker or spellcounter please specify why
7%
Cyric.7813Mbelch.9028DragonFury.6243kipthelip.5802 4 votes
<1

Comments

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yeah sorry i expected ele to not even make it in the area of balance, since they are crying fairly hard.Everyone else tends to have complaints sent towards them.I don't hear as much about guardians or warriors as much as i hear about thieves necros especially mesmers get quite a lot.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • dDuff.3860dDuff.3860 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 4, 2018

    I think game become more balanced with the latest patch with classes having builds to fill different roles.

    Also unbalanced isn't necessary OP, but also UP.

  • Noha.3749Noha.3749 Member ✭✭✭

    Everything is good against something or in some situations. Some are just better against most/in more situations than others.
    Some are annoying/toxic to play against, some are just too hard to play against or as and some too predictable or clumsy.

    Proactive professions and playstyles vs reactive professions and playstyles with different toolkits.

    For sPvP you still have your standard "bunkers" and "roamers". Pretty much the same "classes" as always fill the same roles as during release.

    Warrior/Guardian/Engineer are great at holding a point and fighting multiple opponents. Alot of passive and active defenses while still having plenty of damage.

    Thief/mesmer and some others are great at roaming due to mobility and spikedamage.

    Most professions got some weird cheesebuild that everyone hates that excell in a few areas and typically ruins the fun for those who build to function in as many roles as possible.

  • kipthelip.5802kipthelip.5802 Member ✭✭
    edited October 4, 2018
    Warriors are unbalanced with berserker or spellcounter please specify why

    Warriors (mainly spell breaker) - FC is still over budget and warriors still have too much sustain.

  • There is no end to balance. Its always shifting and changing. Even if every matchup was 100% perfectly balanced you would still make changes often to bring variety.

    If what you mean, is it more balanced than in the past? I would argue yes. Are there some outliers still? Of course.

  • witcher.3197witcher.3197 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Engineers are unbalanced with scrapper or with holosmith specify why

    Holo should be nuked from orbit. Noskill overtuned easymode spec.

  • Engineers are unbalanced with scrapper or with holosmith specify why

    Missing my none DE thief 30% dmg buff lol

  • Stallic.2397Stallic.2397 Member ✭✭✭
    Mesmers are still unbalanced please specify

    I love how Ele is not even on there. Are we that bad? Lol

    Condi MIrages are still a pain. It's not even a L2P issue cause I can battle Power Shatter Mesmers fairly easy. Even Necro's and their conditions are okay if you battle them correctly. But Condi mirage's will constantly apply conditions non-stop. Then they will invuln, stealth, teleport to avoid damage. If anyone needs to be toned down, it's them.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 4, 2018

    @Stallic.2397 said:
    I love how Ele is not even on there. Are we that bad? Lol

    Condi MIrages are still a pain. It's not even a L2P issue cause I can battle Power Shatter Mesmers fairly easy. Even Necro's and their conditions are okay if you battle them correctly. But Condi mirage's will constantly apply conditions non-stop. Then they will invuln, stealth, teleport to avoid damage. If anyone needs to be toned down, it's them.

    It happened because i was trying to list all of them but missed one out in my counting.

    Also wow there is a lot of hate towards mesmers.Glad i don't main mesmer, because they are going to be fighting in a pit with lions holding dearly to life to not get hit with the nerf bat.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Tails.9372Tails.9372 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Thieves are unbalanced with deadeye please specify why in the comments

    P/P needs a severe sustainability buff (among other things), it's pretty much unusable as it is rn.

  • Pati.2438Pati.2438 Member ✭✭
    Mesmers are still unbalanced please specify

    Mesmer is bye far the moste unbalanced class in PvP cause they have stealth, ports, evade spam and a dodge stunbrake. At least the last stun nerf was a good one but the only real way to balance that kitten is get out the stunbrake dodge. (tbh i think power mirage would be mutch better balanced than this crappy condition spam mirage) At least Spellbraker need a bit looking too cause the magebane Thether`s might giving is too stupid broke. (But one other problem is that last stand have too mutch cd so no one could play that trait effektly atm but that's an other thing)

    PS. Sorry for my bad english :P

  • When they nerf something, other things need to be nerfed as well.
    They legit put themselves in a garbage position. Seriously just sell a Classic GW2 expansion/server and it'll be easy to balance.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Schwahrheit.4203 said:
    When they nerf something, other things need to be nerfed as well.
    They legit put themselves in a garbage position. Seriously just sell a Classic GW2 expansion/server and it'll be easy to balance.

    The whole point is to nerf things that are overperforming so that we got a stable game.With classes who overperform it hurts pvp and causes problems in hte power creep department.

    Maybe having a character which has too much sustain and damage is a bad idea, because in order for it to work, other classes too would need sustain to be competitive.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Tails.9372Tails.9372 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Thieves are unbalanced with deadeye please specify why in the comments

    The whole point is to nerf things that are overperforming

    And that's the problem with A-Nets balance changes, many of the nerfs are not done to address performance issues but for other reasons.

  • EnderzShadow.2506EnderzShadow.2506 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 4, 2018

    Ridiculous premise.
    Been playing mmos seriously since 2003(Shadowbane)
    At no time, during the life of any of the games I've played has there ever been true competitive balance.

    It's impossible.

    mhm, ok, sure, whatever you say, no after you, I insist, no really, please, be my guest,

  • breno.5423breno.5423 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 5, 2018

    All classes deserve nerf (except elementalist i guess):

    Mesmer = Aegis application, CC spam and blind spam which make this kitten imortal / remove the kitt break stun from dodge ans restore the endurance regeneration which got nerf
    Thief = Death judgement damage OR stealth duration from silent scope (nerfing both would inutilize this spec)
    Warrior = Nerf sustain
    Herald = Nerf sword off hand damages and decrease slow from skill 5 to 1 second instead 3
    Guardian = Focus skill 4 to stop causing damage when the opponent get out of the range and -30% damage
    Holosmith = DPS
    Soulbeast = Sustain OR dps (nerfing both would inutilize this spec)
    Necromancer = Remove ressurrection bonus OR remove pull of transfusion / nerf damage of reaper shroud skills, mantaining quickness

  • Toron.4856Toron.4856 Member ✭✭✭
    Mesmers are still unbalanced please specify

    @Tails.9372 said:
    P/P needs a severe sustainability buff (among other things), it's pretty much unusable as it is rn.

    Are u really trying to tell us that pressing 3 over and over should be a viable build? If you want to be successful by spamming one button over and over u should to events in queensdale.

    Nevertheless, Deadeye stealth has to go..

  • Tails.9372Tails.9372 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 5, 2018
    Thieves are unbalanced with deadeye please specify why in the comments

    @Toron.4856 said:

    @Tails.9372 said:
    P/P needs a severe sustainability buff (among other things), it's pretty much unusable as it is rn.

    Are u really trying to tell us that pressing 3 over and over should be a viable build? If you want to be successful by spamming one button over and over u should to events in queensdale.

    Read: "among other things", you really have no argument here as fixing this weapon set requires addressing the underlying issues and one of them is the the complete lack of sustainability. Going by your logic you might as well complain about D/P being viable cause the AA is to "one dimensional".

  • LazySummer.2568LazySummer.2568 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 5, 2018

    How can a game be balanced when a class (ele) is still trash? and by trash i mean that it doesnt have a single role where it can do better than other classes. Actually, asking for it to do better in a role is too much at this point. It'll be great if it can just be equal to other classes in terms of effectiveness.

    i'll also be ok with it being "trash" as long as it has something specific like being able to counter X class/build from the meta, but it doesnt.

    balance will forever be trash until ele (aka all 9 classes) is meta competitive in some way

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Question in title is the game balanced yet, with no option to choose yes. All you're giving is negative options and then expected some kind of valid answer from it. The way this question is designed, I don't see how it's helpful to the game anyway. If you think 3 professions are unbalanced and you only can choose one for example, what does that tell anyone?

  • Rufo.3716Rufo.3716 Member ✭✭✭

    You can't even create a poll for this because things are so screwed up. The last balance patch did nothing but screw things up worse. Balance team proved they don't even consider balance for PvP and it just comes around as an after thought with band-aid fixes. I would really love to see the reasoning behind why they do and don't do things. You wouldn't even think they play their own game the way they balance.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 5, 2018

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    Question in title is the game balanced yet, with no option to choose yes. All you're giving is negative options and then expected some kind of valid answer from it. The way this question is designed, I don't see how it's helpful to the game anyway. If you think 3 professions are unbalanced and you only can choose one for example, what does that tell anyone?

    But there is:it says unbalanced doesn't say necessarily only nerf.

    I didn't use the word overpowered after all, and there is multiple types of unbalances:It could be broken as in bad, it could be overpowered, it could also be unbalanced in the ways revenants described regarding bugs.

    @breno.5423 said:
    All classes deserve nerf (except elementalist i guess):

    Mesmer = Aegis application, CC spam and blind spam which make this kitten imortal / remove the kitt break stun from dodge ans restore the endurance regeneration which got nerf
    Thief = Death judgement damage OR stealth duration from silent scope (nerfing both would inutilize this spec)
    Warrior = Nerf sustain
    Herald = Nerf sword off hand damages and decrease slow from skill 5 to 1 second instead 3
    Guardian = Focus skill 4 to stop causing damage when the opponent get out of the range and -30% damage
    Holosmith = DPS
    Soulbeast = Sustain OR dps (nerfing both would inutilize this spec)
    Necromancer = Remove ressurrection bonus OR remove pull of transfusion / nerf damage of reaper shroud skills, mantaining quickness

    I forgot to add ele because i misscounted the classes.

    Why would you nerf resurrection? i mean yeah its strong but its one of the few things they got thats strong for necro in support.

    Warrior:

    Are you talking about core sustain? or are you talking about sustain in spellcounter warriors? I do agree though.I don't think its a good idea to have too much sustain and dmg at same time.

    revenant:

    I think revenants just got nerfed in spvp in damage.They have to sacrifice another thing to get 25 might.Going to ned more data though to see how strong.

    Overall interesting ideas.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • jportell.2197jportell.2197 Member ✭✭✭

    @breno.5423 said:
    All classes deserve nerf (except elementalist i guess):

    Mesmer = Aegis application, CC spam and blind spam which make this kitten imortal / remove the kitt break stun from dodge ans restore the endurance regeneration which got nerf
    Thief = Death judgement damage OR stealth duration from silent scope (nerfing both would inutilize this spec)
    Warrior = Nerf sustain
    Herald = Nerf sword off hand damages and decrease slow from skill 5 to 1 second instead 3
    Guardian = Focus skill 4 to stop causing damage when the opponent get out of the range and -30% damage
    Holosmith = DPS
    Soulbeast = Sustain OR dps (nerfing both would inutilize this spec)
    Necromancer = Remove ressurrection bonus OR remove pull of transfusion / nerf damage of reaper shroud skills, mantaining quickness

    Aegis application on mesmer. I can't think of a single mesmer build that SPAMS aegis. Maybe PU but there is not a single meta mesmer build that uses it. Most mesmers aren't using that many blinds anymore either. Detargeting and kiting is how we survive. So should ANET just delete the class to make you happy?

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @jportell.2197 said:

    @breno.5423 said:
    All classes deserve nerf (except elementalist i guess):

    Mesmer = Aegis application, CC spam and blind spam which make this kitten imortal / remove the kitt break stun from dodge ans restore the endurance regeneration which got nerf
    Thief = Death judgement damage OR stealth duration from silent scope (nerfing both would inutilize this spec)
    Warrior = Nerf sustain
    Herald = Nerf sword off hand damages and decrease slow from skill 5 to 1 second instead 3
    Guardian = Focus skill 4 to stop causing damage when the opponent get out of the range and -30% damage
    Holosmith = DPS
    Soulbeast = Sustain OR dps (nerfing both would inutilize this spec)
    Necromancer = Remove ressurrection bonus OR remove pull of transfusion / nerf damage of reaper shroud skills, mantaining quickness

    Aegis application on mesmer. I can't think of a single mesmer build that SPAMS aegis. Maybe PU but there is not a single meta mesmer build that uses it. Most mesmers aren't using that many blinds anymore either. Detargeting and kiting is how we survive. So should ANET just delete the class to make you happy?

    is there a rune or trait that grants aegis on signet use?

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • jportell.2197jportell.2197 Member ✭✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @jportell.2197 said:

    @breno.5423 said:
    All classes deserve nerf (except elementalist i guess):

    Mesmer = Aegis application, CC spam and blind spam which make this kitten imortal / remove the kitt break stun from dodge ans restore the endurance regeneration which got nerf
    Thief = Death judgement damage OR stealth duration from silent scope (nerfing both would inutilize this spec)
    Warrior = Nerf sustain
    Herald = Nerf sword off hand damages and decrease slow from skill 5 to 1 second instead 3
    Guardian = Focus skill 4 to stop causing damage when the opponent get out of the range and -30% damage
    Holosmith = DPS
    Soulbeast = Sustain OR dps (nerfing both would inutilize this spec)
    Necromancer = Remove ressurrection bonus OR remove pull of transfusion / nerf damage of reaper shroud skills, mantaining quickness

    Aegis application on mesmer. I can't think of a single mesmer build that SPAMS aegis. Maybe PU but there is not a single meta mesmer build that uses it. Most mesmers aren't using that many blinds anymore either. Detargeting and kiting is how we survive. So should ANET just delete the class to make you happy?

    is there a rune or trait that grants aegis on signet use?

    Blurred inscriptions grants invuln but it is now a grand master in inspiration. So I don't imagine it being meta.

    Prismatic understanding grants defensive boons in stealth (protection, aegis, swiftness, Regen) however because it is wholly reliant on stealth it is counter productive in PvP.

    The only other way a mesmer can get aegis is with chaos storm and it's not gauranteed and on a 30+ second cool down

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    OP obviously doesn't understand balance, or has a very reductive view of balance, the problem is very rarely able to be narrowed down to a single overpowered class, but usually a conjunction of unhealthy gameplay elements, over and underpowered specs, and broken mechanics. Narrowing it down to a single class is in itself likely to produce an unbalanced game (like what happens every time they target a single class heavily for nerfs, there's always one or another that end up replacing it to a worse degree).

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 5, 2018

    @jportell.2197 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @jportell.2197 said:

    @breno.5423 said:
    All classes deserve nerf (except elementalist i guess):

    Mesmer = Aegis application, CC spam and blind spam which make this kitten imortal / remove the kitt break stun from dodge ans restore the endurance regeneration which got nerf
    Thief = Death judgement damage OR stealth duration from silent scope (nerfing both would inutilize this spec)
    Warrior = Nerf sustain
    Herald = Nerf sword off hand damages and decrease slow from skill 5 to 1 second instead 3
    Guardian = Focus skill 4 to stop causing damage when the opponent get out of the range and -30% damage
    Holosmith = DPS
    Soulbeast = Sustain OR dps (nerfing both would inutilize this spec)
    Necromancer = Remove ressurrection bonus OR remove pull of transfusion / nerf damage of reaper shroud skills, mantaining quickness

    Aegis application on mesmer. I can't think of a single mesmer build that SPAMS aegis. Maybe PU but there is not a single meta mesmer build that uses it. Most mesmers aren't using that many blinds anymore either. Detargeting and kiting is how we survive. So should ANET just delete the class to make you happy?

    is there a rune or trait that grants aegis on signet use?

    Blurred inscriptions grants invuln but it is now a grand master in inspiration. So I don't imagine it being meta.

    Prismatic understanding grants defensive boons in stealth (protection, aegis, swiftness, Regen) however because it is wholly reliant on stealth it is counter productive in PvP.

    The only other way a mesmer can get aegis is with chaos storm and it's not gauranteed and on a 30+ second cool down

    ok thats what I thought but it sounded like there was a more stable and reliant way to gain Aegis

    I really enjoy build crafting for different roles and playstyles and was hoping there was a style I overlooked when I used to play it heaps

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • jportell.2197jportell.2197 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 5, 2018

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @jportell.2197 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @jportell.2197 said:

    @breno.5423 said:
    All classes deserve nerf (except elementalist i guess):

    Mesmer = Aegis application, CC spam and blind spam which make this kitten imortal / remove the kitt break stun from dodge ans restore the endurance regeneration which got nerf
    Thief = Death judgement damage OR stealth duration from silent scope (nerfing both would inutilize this spec)
    Warrior = Nerf sustain
    Herald = Nerf sword off hand damages and decrease slow from skill 5 to 1 second instead 3
    Guardian = Focus skill 4 to stop causing damage when the opponent get out of the range and -30% damage
    Holosmith = DPS
    Soulbeast = Sustain OR dps (nerfing both would inutilize this spec)
    Necromancer = Remove ressurrection bonus OR remove pull of transfusion / nerf damage of reaper shroud skills, mantaining quickness

    Aegis application on mesmer. I can't think of a single mesmer build that SPAMS aegis. Maybe PU but there is not a single meta mesmer build that uses it. Most mesmers aren't using that many blinds anymore either. Detargeting and kiting is how we survive. So should ANET just delete the class to make you happy?

    is there a rune or trait that grants aegis on signet use?

    Blurred inscriptions grants invuln but it is now a grand master in inspiration. So I don't imagine it being meta.

    Prismatic understanding grants defensive boons in stealth (protection, aegis, swiftness, Regen) however because it is wholly reliant on stealth it is counter productive in PvP.

    The only other way a mesmer can get aegis is with chaos storm and it's not gauranteed and on a 30+ second cool down

    ok thats what I thought but it sounded like there was a more stable and reliant way to gain Aegis

    No that's about it.. I wish more people that complained about Mesmer took the time to understand the class instead of just "omg I can't find the real mesmer the blind spam is annoying, clones do so much damage" etc etc. Mes is annoying to fight against sure. They've been designed like that since day one. Doesn't mean they are the most effective PvP class.

    Reapers, holos, and spellbreaker is definitely more effective than nearly all other classes atm

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 5, 2018

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:
    OP obviously doesn't understand balance, or has a very reductive view of balance, the problem is very rarely able to be narrowed down to a single overpowered class, but usually a conjunction of unhealthy gameplay elements, over and underpowered specs, and broken mechanics. Narrowing it down to a single class is in itself likely to produce an unbalanced game (like what happens every time they target a single class heavily for nerfs, there's always one or another that end up replacing it to a worse degree).

    You say that but i didn't actively call out for nerfs, or does it say overpowered.Unbalanced can be underpowered overpowered and or broken mechanics.Unhealty things too can be included, but you got to admit, its problematic when you have a massive amount of spammable cc that hard counters too hard a class, combined with mass mobility and dmg such as mesmer was.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:
    OP obviously doesn't understand balance, or has a very reductive view of balance, the problem is very rarely able to be narrowed down to a single overpowered class, but usually a conjunction of unhealthy gameplay elements, over and underpowered specs, and broken mechanics. Narrowing it down to a single class is in itself likely to produce an unbalanced game (like what happens every time they target a single class heavily for nerfs, there's always one or another that end up replacing it to a worse degree).

    You say that but i didn't actively call out for nerfs, or does it say overpowered.Unbalanced can be underpowered overpowered and or broken mechanics.Unhealty things too can be included, but you got to admit, its problematic when you have a massive amount of spammable cc that hard counters too hard a class, combined with mass mobility and dmg such as mesmer was.

    Again, rarely the lack of balance is due to a single problem class, which is the point, i wrote overpowered, but its not relevant, the point is that it's rarely ever a single class.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:
    OP obviously doesn't understand balance, or has a very reductive view of balance, the problem is very rarely able to be narrowed down to a single overpowered class, but usually a conjunction of unhealthy gameplay elements, over and underpowered specs, and broken mechanics. Narrowing it down to a single class is in itself likely to produce an unbalanced game (like what happens every time they target a single class heavily for nerfs, there's always one or another that end up replacing it to a worse degree).

    You say that but i didn't actively call out for nerfs, or does it say overpowered.Unbalanced can be underpowered overpowered and or broken mechanics.Unhealty things too can be included, but you got to admit, its problematic when you have a massive amount of spammable cc that hard counters too hard a class, combined with mass mobility and dmg such as mesmer was.

    Again, rarely the lack of balance is due to a single problem class, which is the point, i wrote overpowered, but its not relevant, the point is that it's rarely ever a single class.

    It is when you got a class like mesmer which has too much sustain dmg and mobility as it was before nerf.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • jportell.2197jportell.2197 Member ✭✭✭

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:
    OP obviously doesn't understand balance, or has a very reductive view of balance, the problem is very rarely able to be narrowed down to a single overpowered class, but usually a conjunction of unhealthy gameplay elements, over and underpowered specs, and broken mechanics. Narrowing it down to a single class is in itself likely to produce an unbalanced game (like what happens every time they target a single class heavily for nerfs, there's always one or another that end up replacing it to a worse degree).

    You say that but i didn't actively call out for nerfs, or does it say overpowered.Unbalanced can be underpowered overpowered and or broken mechanics.Unhealty things too can be included, but you got to admit, its problematic when you have a massive amount of spammable cc that hard counters too hard a class, combined with mass mobility and dmg such as mesmer was.

    Again, rarely the lack of balance is due to a single problem class, which is the point, i wrote overpowered, but its not relevant, the point is that it's rarely ever a single class.

    It is when you got a class like mesmer which has too much sustain dmg and mobility as it was before nerf.

    Mesmer sustain damage is lower than a spellbreaker, a Holo, and a reaper. More instant burst sure. But definitely less sustain.

    Holo, and spellbreaker have better mobility (photon forge 2 any one?)

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @jportell.2197 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:
    OP obviously doesn't understand balance, or has a very reductive view of balance, the problem is very rarely able to be narrowed down to a single overpowered class, but usually a conjunction of unhealthy gameplay elements, over and underpowered specs, and broken mechanics. Narrowing it down to a single class is in itself likely to produce an unbalanced game (like what happens every time they target a single class heavily for nerfs, there's always one or another that end up replacing it to a worse degree).

    You say that but i didn't actively call out for nerfs, or does it say overpowered.Unbalanced can be underpowered overpowered and or broken mechanics.Unhealty things too can be included, but you got to admit, its problematic when you have a massive amount of spammable cc that hard counters too hard a class, combined with mass mobility and dmg such as mesmer was.

    Again, rarely the lack of balance is due to a single problem class, which is the point, i wrote overpowered, but its not relevant, the point is that it's rarely ever a single class.

    It is when you got a class like mesmer which has too much sustain dmg and mobility as it was before nerf.

    Mesmer sustain damage is lower than a spellbreaker, a Holo, and a reaper. More instant burst sure. But definitely less sustain.

    Holo, and spellbreaker have better mobility (photon forge 2 any one?)

    They got nerfed recently mesmers i mean, but cmon your telling me there wasn't a problem before? It was too much of everything, thats just insane.

    I mean who counters mesmers?

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • jportell.2197jportell.2197 Member ✭✭✭

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @jportell.2197 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:
    OP obviously doesn't understand balance, or has a very reductive view of balance, the problem is very rarely able to be narrowed down to a single overpowered class, but usually a conjunction of unhealthy gameplay elements, over and underpowered specs, and broken mechanics. Narrowing it down to a single class is in itself likely to produce an unbalanced game (like what happens every time they target a single class heavily for nerfs, there's always one or another that end up replacing it to a worse degree).

    You say that but i didn't actively call out for nerfs, or does it say overpowered.Unbalanced can be underpowered overpowered and or broken mechanics.Unhealty things too can be included, but you got to admit, its problematic when you have a massive amount of spammable cc that hard counters too hard a class, combined with mass mobility and dmg such as mesmer was.

    Again, rarely the lack of balance is due to a single problem class, which is the point, i wrote overpowered, but its not relevant, the point is that it's rarely ever a single class.

    It is when you got a class like mesmer which has too much sustain dmg and mobility as it was before nerf.

    Mesmer sustain damage is lower than a spellbreaker, a Holo, and a reaper. More instant burst sure. But definitely less sustain.

    Holo, and spellbreaker have better mobility (photon forge 2 any one?)

    They got nerfed recently mesmers i mean, but cmon your telling me there wasn't a problem before? It was too much of everything, thats just insane.

    I mean who counters mesmers?

    Spellbreaker, core guard, a well played s/d thief, Holo hits pretty kitten hard and has way more sustain than is fair for s class that does that much damage.

  • Poelala.2830Poelala.2830 Member ✭✭✭

    Poll choices should have at least been, "No, the game is not balanced.", "Yes, the game is balanced.", "No, because there are too many 1 shot builds." etc.

  • Ziggityzog.7389Ziggityzog.7389 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 5, 2018
    Mesmers are still unbalanced please specify

    I'm sorry i just played vs a mes with 1,000 ways to block evade make clones and hide and then go invulnerable but yet can spam massive life ending conditions and not take a scratch. It's the most cheesy and low level skill class build style out there. You should be able to dodge 1,000 ways OR! Do massive uncontrollable damage. Not both.

    With other classes that have dodges, invul, evades, and blocks, You at least have a target to go after. With mes they have damage, and evades on top of massive screen garbage by means of clones.

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @jportell.2197 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:
    OP obviously doesn't understand balance, or has a very reductive view of balance, the problem is very rarely able to be narrowed down to a single overpowered class, but usually a conjunction of unhealthy gameplay elements, over and underpowered specs, and broken mechanics. Narrowing it down to a single class is in itself likely to produce an unbalanced game (like what happens every time they target a single class heavily for nerfs, there's always one or another that end up replacing it to a worse degree).

    You say that but i didn't actively call out for nerfs, or does it say overpowered.Unbalanced can be underpowered overpowered and or broken mechanics.Unhealty things too can be included, but you got to admit, its problematic when you have a massive amount of spammable cc that hard counters too hard a class, combined with mass mobility and dmg such as mesmer was.

    Again, rarely the lack of balance is due to a single problem class, which is the point, i wrote overpowered, but its not relevant, the point is that it's rarely ever a single class.

    It is when you got a class like mesmer which has too much sustain dmg and mobility as it was before nerf.

    Mesmer sustain damage is lower than a spellbreaker, a Holo, and a reaper. More instant burst sure. But definitely less sustain.

    Holo, and spellbreaker have better mobility (photon forge 2 any one?)

    They got nerfed recently mesmers i mean, but cmon your telling me there wasn't a problem before? It was too much of everything, thats just insane.

    I mean who counters mesmers?

    But is that THE ONLY problem with balance? Would the game be perfectly balanced if they nerfed mesmers?

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @jportell.2197 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:
    OP obviously doesn't understand balance, or has a very reductive view of balance, the problem is very rarely able to be narrowed down to a single overpowered class, but usually a conjunction of unhealthy gameplay elements, over and underpowered specs, and broken mechanics. Narrowing it down to a single class is in itself likely to produce an unbalanced game (like what happens every time they target a single class heavily for nerfs, there's always one or another that end up replacing it to a worse degree).

    You say that but i didn't actively call out for nerfs, or does it say overpowered.Unbalanced can be underpowered overpowered and or broken mechanics.Unhealty things too can be included, but you got to admit, its problematic when you have a massive amount of spammable cc that hard counters too hard a class, combined with mass mobility and dmg such as mesmer was.

    Again, rarely the lack of balance is due to a single problem class, which is the point, i wrote overpowered, but its not relevant, the point is that it's rarely ever a single class.

    It is when you got a class like mesmer which has too much sustain dmg and mobility as it was before nerf.

    Mesmer sustain damage is lower than a spellbreaker, a Holo, and a reaper. More instant burst sure. But definitely less sustain.

    Holo, and spellbreaker have better mobility (photon forge 2 any one?)

    They got nerfed recently mesmers i mean, but cmon your telling me there wasn't a problem before? It was too much of everything, thats just insane.

    I mean who counters mesmers?

    But is that THE ONLY problem with balance? Would the game be perfectly balanced if they nerfed mesmers?

    maybe if they buffed renegade, scrapper (not holo) and Elementalists while toning down a few skills across all class then yea Id say its pretty good...

    gold player here and lots of interesting builds lately

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • jportell.2197jportell.2197 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ziggityzog.7389 said:
    I'm sorry i just played vs a mes with 1,000 ways to block evade make clones and hide and then go invulnerable but yet can spam massive life ending conditions and not take a scratch. It's the most cheesy and low level skill class build style out there. You should be able to dodge 1,000 ways OR! Do massive uncontrollable damage. Not both.

    With other classes that have dodges, invul, evades, and blocks, You at least have a target to go after. With mes they have damage, and evades on top of massive screen garbage by means of clones.

    Scepter 2- 1 block on a 4.5 s CD. Was not taken much until the block created 2 clones. They nerfed scepter 3 cast time.

    Sword 4 block - 12s (I think) CD traited. Off hand sword in a condi build is ONLY taken for the block.

    It also sounds like he took Deceptive evasion over ineptitude. So that's less condi application (which it sounds like you exaggerated.)

    The only invuln in that build is distortion which is a long cool down. Evades can come from likely two skills outside of Dodge. False oasis, and illusionary ambush.

    And it also sounds like he was using sword torch. Instead of axe, once again less condi application.

    The entire build u described is one that punishes bad players. You spam ur skills u get blocks procced. The only huge Condi spike it can do is torment/confusion.

    He had 2 blinds (stealth, 3 if using desperate decoy), 2 blocks, one stun break, and 3 skills for evade that aren't dodges (blurred frenzy, false oasis, and illusionary ambush.)

    It's not peak Condi damage, it's focused more on survivability. And still not as powerful as spellbreaker or holosmith.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 5, 2018

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @jportell.2197 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:
    OP obviously doesn't understand balance, or has a very reductive view of balance, the problem is very rarely able to be narrowed down to a single overpowered class, but usually a conjunction of unhealthy gameplay elements, over and underpowered specs, and broken mechanics. Narrowing it down to a single class is in itself likely to produce an unbalanced game (like what happens every time they target a single class heavily for nerfs, there's always one or another that end up replacing it to a worse degree).

    You say that but i didn't actively call out for nerfs, or does it say overpowered.Unbalanced can be underpowered overpowered and or broken mechanics.Unhealty things too can be included, but you got to admit, its problematic when you have a massive amount of spammable cc that hard counters too hard a class, combined with mass mobility and dmg such as mesmer was.

    Again, rarely the lack of balance is due to a single problem class, which is the point, i wrote overpowered, but its not relevant, the point is that it's rarely ever a single class.

    It is when you got a class like mesmer which has too much sustain dmg and mobility as it was before nerf.

    Mesmer sustain damage is lower than a spellbreaker, a Holo, and a reaper. More instant burst sure. But definitely less sustain.

    Holo, and spellbreaker have better mobility (photon forge 2 any one?)

    They got nerfed recently mesmers i mean, but cmon your telling me there wasn't a problem before? It was too much of everything, thats just insane.

    I mean who counters mesmers?

    But is that THE ONLY problem with balance? Would the game be perfectly balanced if they nerfed mesmers?

    They would probably end up needing to tone down a few classes damage and balance it out so that the damage isn't out of hand.Something would have to be done to make sure that mirage is still viable and not over nerfed.I would prefer if the actual designers would do some beta testing before anymore nerfs to make sure that they don't wreck anymore classes.

    I'd like some informed opinion for instance from a plat 2 and up from every class to see after these changes if any other changes are needed, but i haven't been seeing all the reasons why everyone wants warrior nerfed, nor have i heard a lot of objections from mesmers on why its balanced.

    This is a chance to maybe get a change to every class with needed changes in spvp and wvw.

    Say for instance reaver kane, lets say you play revenant, then you could say rev has this and that problem in spvp and is inbalanced because of survivability lets say which i heard some were talking about mobility in a thread regarding teleportations being limited due to energy costs and having stability nerfed and more limited.Is there a solution? maybe maybe not, depending on if the build is designed to be a bruiser.Should all melee bruiser types have low sustain? or should all bruiser types have some form of sustain to survive? Should damage be nerfed in pvp to compensate and have some bit of extra survivability? that kind of information could be relevant to pvp.

    maybe if they buffed renegade, scrapper (not holo) and Elementalists while toning down a few skills across all class then yea Id say its pretty good...

    gold player here and lots of interesting builds lately

    Isn't scrapper supposedly really good now? or is that only pve?

    I heard some about weavers having the damage but having issues with landing a hit.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @jportell.2197 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:
    OP obviously doesn't understand balance, or has a very reductive view of balance, the problem is very rarely able to be narrowed down to a single overpowered class, but usually a conjunction of unhealthy gameplay elements, over and underpowered specs, and broken mechanics. Narrowing it down to a single class is in itself likely to produce an unbalanced game (like what happens every time they target a single class heavily for nerfs, there's always one or another that end up replacing it to a worse degree).

    You say that but i didn't actively call out for nerfs, or does it say overpowered.Unbalanced can be underpowered overpowered and or broken mechanics.Unhealty things too can be included, but you got to admit, its problematic when you have a massive amount of spammable cc that hard counters too hard a class, combined with mass mobility and dmg such as mesmer was.

    Again, rarely the lack of balance is due to a single problem class, which is the point, i wrote overpowered, but its not relevant, the point is that it's rarely ever a single class.

    It is when you got a class like mesmer which has too much sustain dmg and mobility as it was before nerf.

    Mesmer sustain damage is lower than a spellbreaker, a Holo, and a reaper. More instant burst sure. But definitely less sustain.

    Holo, and spellbreaker have better mobility (photon forge 2 any one?)

    They got nerfed recently mesmers i mean, but cmon your telling me there wasn't a problem before? It was too much of everything, thats just insane.

    I mean who counters mesmers?

    But is that THE ONLY problem with balance? Would the game be perfectly balanced if they nerfed mesmers?

    maybe if they buffed renegade, scrapper (not holo) and Elementalists while toning down a few skills across all class then yea Id say its pretty good...

    gold player here and lots of interesting builds lately

    Watchu mean buff renegade? Doesnt that class already got a strong elite?

  • Zawn.9647Zawn.9647 Member ✭✭✭
    Mesmers are still unbalanced please specify

    @Stallic.2397 said:
    I love how Ele is not even on there. Are we that bad? Lol

    Condi MIrages are still a pain. It's not even a L2P issue cause I can battle Power Shatter Mesmers fairly easy. Even Necro's and their conditions are okay if you battle them correctly. But Condi mirage's will constantly apply conditions non-stop. Then they will invuln, stealth, teleport to avoid damage. If anyone needs to be toned down, it's them.

    this

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Necromancers with reaper or scourge specify why

    Does the opinion of everybody really count or should be even considered objective? Anybody who buy the core game can come here and shout for nerfs left and right but....for all we know they guy shouting for nerfs can't even WASD let alone beat any other human player. The GW2 community is highly uncompetitive and strongly biased in general, honesty is a rare sight on these forums...would I be a dev I would take anything here with a grain of salt.

    I mean the nerfs to mesmer should be enough to satisfy even a new player...but it seems that typical GW2 player wants to pick profession X, walk into an arena and kill people by simply looking at them without doing anything else....screw this really

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • BadMed.3846BadMed.3846 Member ✭✭✭
    Mesmers are still unbalanced please specify

    Mesmers are just broken fit them please.
    Necro Axe needs damage and range reduction. 900 range if ridiculous.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 5, 2018

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    Does the opinion of everybody really count or should be even considered objective? Anybody who buy the core game can come here and shout for nerfs left and right but....for all we know they guy shouting for nerfs can't even WASD let alone beat any other human player. The GW2 community is highly uncompetitive and strongly biased in general, honesty is a rare sight on these forums...would I be a dev I would take anything here with a grain of salt.

    I mean the nerfs to mesmer should be enough to satisfy even a new player...but it seems that typical GW2 player wants to pick profession X, walk into an arena and kill people by simply looking at them without doing anything else....screw this really

    For me, I was trying to form a consensus of what needs changed.I was hoping folks of all walks could come here and say what needs changed and from there Anet can sift through find out what information is most valuable.These kinds of things even if a lot of information will be trash, can be valuable, such as on the ele forums folks giving ideas of changes for tempest or on necro forums people talking about balance wise and stuff needed for necros to be viable in spvp and WVW and pve.Noha went into more detail than the others, while some like Dduff and Badmed are in the row of few lines

    Obviously if something has plenty of counters that is already pretty good, but what if thief for instance could be improved to fill in various roles?

    What if elementalist could be fixed to be viable with weaver?

    Wouldn't this make pvp more fun if you could choose various roles?

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 5, 2018

    @breno.5423 said:
    All classes deserve nerf (except elementalist i guess):

    Mesmer = remove the kitt break stun from dodge ans restore the endurance regeneration which got nerf.
    Thief = stealth duration from silent scope
    Warrior = Nerf sustain
    Holosmith = DPS
    Soulbeast = Sustain OR dps

    i agree with the items I cropped out of the quote above.

    Mesmer is almost fine. They dont have to kill elusive mind, just tie the dodge while stunned mechanic to it so that mirages have to either take IH for DPS and be left without breakstun on dodge, or take EM for breakstun. Right now there's a significant amount of mesmers stumbling hard because their EM crutch got yanked, but the meta brought them there. with EM nerfed the meta will put them on IH.

    That being said baiting dodges should help handle them.

    I can deal with warrior sustain nerfs/FC nerfs atm as long as they arent over the top/ target spellbreaker.
    I can deal with a stealth nerf/cd on silent scope.

    Holosmith is obvious.

    Soulbeast is obvious.

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @breno.5423 said:
    All classes deserve nerf (except elementalist i guess):

    Mesmer = remove the kitt break stun from dodge ans restore the endurance regeneration which got nerf.
    Thief = stealth duration from silent scope
    Warrior = Nerf sustain
    Holosmith = DPS
    Soulbeast = Sustain OR dps

    i agree with the items I cropped out of the quote above.

    Mesmer is almost fine. They dont have to kill elusive mind, just tie the dodge while stunned mechanic to it so that mirages have to either take IH for DPS and be left without breakstun on dodge, or take EM for breakstun.

    I can deal with warrior sustain nerfs/FC nerfs atm as long as they arent over the top/ target spellbreaker.
    I can deal with a stealth nerf/cd on silent scope.

    Holosmith is obvious.

    Soulbeast is obvious.

    What kinda dps do you get with fullcounter warr now with dagger? just curious.I heard it has tons of sustain but whats the dmg like now?

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 5, 2018

    @Axl.8924 said:
    What kinda dps do you get with fullcounter warr now with dagger? just curious.I heard it has tons of sustain but whats the dmg like now?

    Damage is ehh with dagger. It's mostly a compounding of several things.

    might generation is incredibly easy which has synergies with, say, MMR.
    Spellbreaker matches are usually slowed down because of Full Counter.
    Every serious SB warrior carries rampage in their back pocket.

    It's not that dagger itself is overtuned, or that core is overtuned. the nature of the class just makes fighting it a slow burn, and slow burn fights are countered by HS/Adrenal. You can still kill them if you do a heavy dot like torment, or keep poison on them.

    I'm concerned as to how they will make SB squishier without making core collapse, but I've seen many a toxic SB get whittled down only to pop rampage when they were losing to good plays and just ezmode a match they should have lost.

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • breno.5423breno.5423 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 5, 2018

    @Axl.8924 said:
    Why would you nerf resurrection? i mean yeah its strong but its one of the few things they got thats strong for necro in support.

    Cause its broken? '-'
    Its like a buffed search and rescue, because you don't have to waste an utility slot to ress allies (and i feel like the ressurrection bonus is bigger than SnR).

    @Axl.8924 said:
    Warrior:

    Are you talking about core sustain? or are you talking about sustain in spellcounter warriors? I do agree though.I don't think its a good idea to have too much sustain and dmg at same time.

    About spellbroken.

    @Axl.8924 said:
    revenant:

    I think revenants just got nerfed in spvp in damage.They have to sacrifice another thing to get 25 might.Going to ned more data though to see how strong.

    I'm playing herald at this moment.
    They didnt got nerf, because the "new might trait" keep 25 might stacks and INCREASE POWER BONUS from might, which mean a stronger 25 might stack.

    @jportell.2197 said:

    @breno.5423 said:
    All classes deserve nerf (except elementalist i guess):

    Mesmer = Aegis application, CC spam and blind spam which make this kitten imortal / remove the kitt break stun from dodge ans restore the endurance regeneration which got nerf
    Thief = Death judgement damage OR stealth duration from silent scope (nerfing both would inutilize this spec)
    Warrior = Nerf sustain
    Herald = Nerf sword off hand damages and decrease slow from skill 5 to 1 second instead 3
    Guardian = Focus skill 4 to stop causing damage when the opponent get out of the range and -30% damage
    Holosmith = DPS
    Soulbeast = Sustain OR dps (nerfing both would inutilize this spec)
    Necromancer = Remove ressurrection bonus OR remove pull of transfusion / nerf damage of reaper shroud skills, mantaining quickness

    Aegis application on mesmer. I can't think of a single mesmer build that SPAMS aegis. Maybe PU but there is not a single meta mesmer build that uses it. Most mesmers aren't using that many blinds anymore either. Detargeting and kiting is how we survive. So should ANET just delete the class to make you happy?

    Staff spam aegis.
    When you are running staff + blinding dissipation + ineptitude you become pratically imortal (aegis + blind + infinity CC's).

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