Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Concerns about Elementalist


System

Recommended Posts

@Usagi.4835 said:

@"steki.1478" said:Those consecutive hits wouldn't even reach 8k since current strongest hit is 20% stronger than old hits. Damage also doesnt drop nearly as fast as you mentioned, in fact, MS barely hits below 3k and it's usually because of high defense, not because of being hit too many times.

There's literally no issues in wvw regarding meteors, it was fine before change, it's fine now (maybe a bit stronger). It's mostly a pve nerf.

Yes, they would. And they
did
. See attached images, dated April 2018, a month before the change. I main zerk staff weaver/ele and have since PoF launched and before that too. And that's exactly what I said, that if the first hit isn't particularly meaty because of protection, toughness, damage reduction food from Mussels Gnashblade and the like, and possibly a Jalis rev, the damage only goes downhill from there on that target.

Broken link. The damage goes downhill, but the damage is already so low in such situation that it doesnt even matter. Protection is corruptible, toughness is mostly used on guards, gnashblade is pretty much just a roaming/gvg food (where ele is already bad) and jalis elite cant cover full meteor shower. Damage also resets on downed enemies, so you need to rely on allies finishing those with 90% dmg reduction, but that's not really MS issue. It's not like you cant stack weavers in blobs.

I understand what you mean, but such situations are so rare that it's barely a difference. Currently it's easier to kill squishier targets (which are the main damage dealers), but harder to kill tankier ones (usually supports). Once you kill enemy dps, they cant really do much.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 986
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

@steki.1478 said:Broken link. The damage goes downhill, but the damage is already so low in such situation that it doesnt even matter. Protection is corruptible, toughness is mostly used on guards, gnashblade is pretty much just a roaming/gvg food (where ele is already bad) and jalis elite cant cover full meteor shower. Damage also resets on downed enemies, so you need to rely on allies finishing those with 90% dmg reduction, but that's not really MS issue. It's not like you cant stack weavers in blobs.

I understand what you mean, but such situations are so rare that it's barely a difference. Currently it's easier to kill squishier targets (which are the main damage dealers), but harder to kill tankier ones (usually supports). Once you kill enemy dps, they cant really do much.

Link fixed. What I meant was that, from prior experience, say you cast meteors on firebrands/supports rezzing a downed target before the change, you were more likely to down them for that. If not Meteor Shower, then Lava Font would've punished stationary targets but that's not the case anymore. But like I said before, I concede that if I had to pick one, I'd want the old Lava Font from a few months ago back. That would have a greater impact than reverting meteors.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@maddoctor.2738 said:One of the constructive trait changes requested by Elementalists finally became a reality, Heat Sync affecting 10 targets.

Who cares. Warhorn support tempest still won't be taken over other supports in all game modes.

This is including staff support tempest & focus support tempest because you just dont have the staff's heals in pve and focus's survivablity in pvp/wvw when you run warhorn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think anyone has even read it.

I don't blame them. Most of the suggestions in here are misguided or working towards completely different goals. Without some actual dev interaction to provide clarity on what they want to do with elementalist, everyone is pulling it in opposite directions with their random and usually quite foolish suggestions.

This thread was purely to relegate the eles that want to blow off steam into one area and quarantine us from the rest of the forums.

If this thread had actually been about changes, the devs would've started off with a post on their vision for eles. Then they would have participated in shaping and directing the conversation in a productive way. But only the "dev" response we've received has been Gaile.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Megametzler.5729 said:Maybe we should start spamming in the other forums again, maybe we can provoke another response...

Then we will have a response by Gaile

last Dev intervention :Engineer : April 15, 2018Guardian : January14, 2018Mesmer : May 9, 2018Necromancer : May 8, 2018Ranger : November 7, 2017Revenant : February 6, 2018Thief : May 3, 2018Warrior : July 11, 2018

well, they are not very talktative in others forums too

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@scureuil.4052 said:

@Megametzler.5729 said:Maybe we should start spamming in the other forums again, maybe we can provoke another response...

Then we will have a response by Gaile

last Dev intervention :Engineer : April 15, 2018Guardian : January14, 2018Mesmer : May 9, 2018Necromancer : May 8, 2018Ranger : November 7, 2017Revenant : February 6, 2018Thief : May 3, 2018Warrior : July 11, 2018

well, they are not very talktative in others forums too

I was thinking about the PVP forum once again... :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Correct me if I'm wrong, but:

Core ele in early days was conceptually supposed to be a heavy aoe glass cannon. But turned out to be more Jack of all trades, master of none.Then came cele meta, where it was top bruiser with high survivability and damage over time.Tempest gave us a boring healing/support/bunker gameplay.Weaver is also mostly played as bruiser/point holder although initially intended to be a damage dealer.

All those specs have one thing in common: they are first and foremost designed just to be able to survive. And that's what ele have always been doing.

There has never been any variety in the choices, scepter FA brought a different and refreshing gameplay, but was not allowed to survive. I think ele lacks identity, all they have is more weapon skills, but nothing class defining.

Also, the class is supposed to combo through fields, but why so much disparity between elemental fields?Fire fields: 14Water fields: 6Ice fields: 3Air fields:0Lightning fields:4Earth fields:0Arcane field:0

(not counting underwater fields) And why some fields give an aura and others don't?

We should be able to combo any time when breathing the air, swimming in water and walking the earth and control them to do our biddings :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With all of the eng buffs i do not get why they dont do a side by side of eng and ele for skill and effect and passive hp / def. Mostly scraper support vs tempest support are they even in the same league or effects for a team the only thing tempest had that scraper support did not was its stronger self protection and now eng has the same effect but easier to get as its a lower on the tree and on the core eng not an elite spec.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Elementalist is in a bad place in pvp for two reasons.

  1. Elementalist base stats and active defenses are terrible forcing eles to run survivability amulets, which makes them useless
  2. Elementalists don't do anything better than another profession can and have weak traits.

How to fix?

  • Give each core trait line a purpose that provides a viable role for ele.
  • Boost Elementalist survivability through trait lines

FireFire trait line will be focused around might/damage, auras, and boon removal

  • Minor Traits

    1. Burning Precision: 50% Chance on crit to inflict burning for 2 seconds, 3 sec icd per enemy,
    2. Sunspot: Same as before except it now removes a boon from all enemies it hits.
    3. Burning Rage: keep the same, but add burning a foe grants 10 endurance, 5 sec icd
  • Adept

    1. Empowering Aura: Auras grant 200 power, effect does not stack
    2. Extreme Might10 extra Power and Condition Damage per might stack for ele only
    3. Cleansing Flames: Burning an enemy removes a boon, 5 sec icd per enemy
  • Master

    1. Pyromancers Training, keep the same,
    2. Smoothering Auras: keep the same, but add removing a condition from an ally grants 10 endurance
    3. Cauterize: Removing a boon inflicts damage
  • Grandmaster

    1. Burning Strength: Gain 3 stacks of might for 10 seconds when you burn a foe. 2 sec icd. Deal 10% more damage while under the effects of might.
    2. Explosive Purification: Create a fire explosion when striking a burning enemy that deals damage and removes 5 boons from all enemies hit. 15 sec icd.
    3. Powerful Aura: Any aura you grant yourself is granted to nearby allies, auras grant fury and might

AirAir trait line will be focused on vulnerability, cc, mobility, and critical damage

  • Minor

    1. Zephyr's Speed: Keep the 25% movement speed buff but also add 3 seconds of superspeed upon attuning to air.
    2. Electric Discharge: Keep the Same
    3. Raging Storm: keep the same
  • Adept

    1. Zephyr's boon: Fury grants an extra 10% crit chance
    2. Crippling Weakness: Applying Weakness inflicts cripple and 3 stacks of vuln for 3 seconds
    3. Speedy Demise: Deal 7% more damage while under the effects of superspeed
  • Master

    1. Aeromancers Training: Keep the same
    2. Tempest Defense: Keep the same
    3. Inscription: Keep the same, but add casting a glyph grants a buff to nearby allies that causes their next 3 attacks cast Electric discharge
  • Grandmaster

    1. Fresh air: keep the same
    2. Lighting rod: keep the same, but add electric discharge dazes for 1 second
    3. Bolt to the Heart: Electric discharge now applies 7 stacks of vuln for 10 seconds and Critical hits have a 50% chance to cast electric discharge 3 sec icd, the Electric Discharge applies a five second effect on your target that increases your damage to them by 15%

EarthEarth trait line will be focused on personal protection, stability, signets, blasts, and condition protection

  • Minor

    1. Protective Blast: Gain Protection for 3 seconds when performing a blast finisher
    2. Earthen Blast: keep the same but is now a blast finisher
    3. Geomancer's defense: Keep the same
  • Adept

    1. Elemental Shielding: keep the same
    2. Earth's embrace: keep the same
    3. Stable Signet: Signets grant 1 stack of stability for four seconds
  • Master

    1. Geomancer's Training: keep the same
    2. Rock Solid: Gain stability on attuning to earth, stability grants 200 toughness
    3. Punishing Blast: Blast finishes cripple and weaken foes for 2 seconds
  • Grandmaster

    1. Stone Heart: Protection reduces critical damage to the elementalist by 33% aoe 5 sec weakness when critically hit, 20 sec icd
    2. Written in Stone: Keep the same
    3. Diamond Skin: Remove a condition when struck while under the effects of protection receive 33% less condition damage while under the effects of protection(3 sec icd)

WaterWater trait line is focused around support through healing, condition hate, and chill

  • Minor

    1. Soothing Mist: keep the same
    2. Healing Ripple: keep the same
    3. Aquatic Healing: Healing is 15% more effective both to allies and you
  • Adept

    1. Soothing Ice: Keep the Same
    2. Conditional Healing: Heal yourself and allies 2% more for each condition on them or you
    3. Stop, Drop, and Roll: Dodging removes a damaging and non-damaging condition from nearby allies
  • Master

    1. Soothing Disruption: Keep the Same but boons are now aoe
    2. Cool Relief: Foes you chill pulse healing to allies while chilled
    3. Aquamancers training: Keep the same, but remove damage boost and add remove condi from allies on water attune
  • Grandmaster

    1. Cleansing Water: Keep the same
    2. Soothing Power: Soothing Mist is 100% more effective, Healing to allies is 25% more effective
    3. Chilling Vulnerability: Gain frost aura for 4 seconds on attuning to water, Applying chill applies 3 stacks of vulnerablity for 8 seconds, Vulnerability now reduces the damage the enemy deals instead of increasing the damage they take

ArcaneArcane trait line focuses on boons, evasion, arcanes skills, and random stuff

  • Minor

    1. Arcane Prowess: keep as is
    2. Elemental Attunement: Keep as is
    3. Elemental Enchantment: Keep as is
  • Adept

    1. Renewing stamina: keep as is
    2. Arcane Precision: keep as is
    3. Arcane Abatement: increase healing
  • Master

    1. Arcane Ressurection: Good for support I guess, leave alone.
    2. Elemental Contingency: leave as is
    3. Final Shielding: Leave as is
  • Grandmaster

    1. Evasive Arcana: Leave as is
    2. Elemental Surge: Leave as is
    3. Bountiful Strength: Deal increased damage for each boon you have. Gain 2 endurance when you gain a boon.

TempestDo tempest stuff better

  • Minor

    1. Singularity: Keep the same
    2. Stable Conduit: Gain stability when starting an overload
    3. Hardy Conduit: Keep the same
  • Adept

    1. Unstable Conduit: keep the same
    2. Latent Stamina: Applying vigor grants 20 stamina, Gain Vigor when starting and completing an overload.
    3. Gale Song: Keep as is, but add shouts grants 3 seconds of quickness and 5 seconds of swiftness
  • Master

    1. Invigorating Torrents: Keep as is
    2. Tempestuous Aria: Reduce shout cooldown by 20% the next attack of allies affected by a shout inflict 3 seconds of cripple and weakness and slow
    3. Speedy Conduit: Overloads are available two seconds earlier and channel 25% faster
  • Grandmaster

    1. Unstoppable Singularity: keep as is, but add overloads grant superspeed and inflict cripple chill and immob for 3 seconds upon completion.
    2. Elemental Bastion: keep as is
    3. Imbued Melodies: Gain 300 concentration, completing an overload grants Protection, aegis, stability, and regen for 3 seconds to allies.

WeaverDon't really know what to do with this, but I have a few ideas.

  • Woven stride: Gaining swiftness or superspeed removes condis, nix the regen, heal while under the effects of swiftness
  • Boost barrier application all around
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Zuko.7132 said:Elementalist is in a bad place in pvp for two reasons.

  1. Elementalist base stats and active defenses are terrible forcing eles to run survivability amulets, which makes them useless
  2. Elementalists don't do anything better than another profession can and have weak traits.

How to fix?

  • Give each core trait line a purpose that provides a viable role for ele.
  • Boost Elementalist survivability through trait lines

FireFire trait line will be focused around might/damage, auras, and boon removal

  • Minor Traits

    1. Burning Precision: 50% Chance on crit to inflict burning for 2 seconds, 3 sec icd per enemy,
    2. Sunspot: Same as before except it now removes a boon from all enemies it hits.
    3. Burning Rage: keep the same, but add burning a foe grants 10 endurance, 5 sec icd
  • Adept

    1. Empowering Aura: Auras grant 200 power, effect does not stack
    2. Extreme Might10 extra Power and Condition Damage per might stack for ele only
    3. Cleansing Flames: Burning an enemy removes a boon, 5 sec icd per enemy
  • Master

    1. Pyromancers Training, keep the same,
    2. Smoothering Auras: keep the same, but add removing a condition from an ally grants 10 endurance
    3. Cauterize: Removing a boon inflicts damage
  • Grandmaster

    1. Burning Strength: Gain 3 stacks of might for 10 seconds when you burn a foe. 2 sec icd. Deal 10% more damage while under the effects of might.
    2. Explosive Purification: Create a fire explosion when striking a burning enemy that deals damage and removes 5 boons from all enemies hit. 15 sec icd.
    3. Powerful Aura: Any aura you grant yourself is granted to nearby allies, auras grant fury and might

AirAir trait line will be focused on vulnerability, cc, mobility, and critical damage

*Minor

  1. Zephyr's Speed: Keep the 25% movement speed buff but also add 3 seconds of superspeed upon attuning to air.
  2. Electric Discharge: Keep the Same
  3. Raging Storm: keep the same
  • Adept

    1. Zephyr's boon: Fury grants an extra 10% crit chance
    2. Crippling Weakness: Applying Weakness inflicts cripple and 3 stacks of vuln for 3 seconds
    3. Speedy Demise: Deal 7% more damage while under the effects of superspeed
  • Master

    1. Aeromancers Training: Keep the same
    2. Tempest Defense: Keep the same
    3. Inscription: Keep the same, but add casting a glyph grants a buff to nearby allies that causes their next 3 attacks cast Electric discharge
  • Grandmaster

    1. Fresh air: keep the same
    2. Lighting rod: keep the same, but add electric discharge dazes for 1 second
    3. Bolt to the Heart: Electric discharge now applies 7 stacks of vuln for 10 seconds and Critical hits have a 50% chance to cast electric discharge 3 sec icd, the Electric Discharge applies a five second effect on your target that increases your damage to them by 15%

EarthEarth trait line will be focused on personal protection, stability, signets, blasts, and condition protection

  • Minor

    1. Protective Blast: Gain Protection for 3 seconds when performing a blast finisher
    2. Earthen Blast: keep the same but is now a blast finisher
    3. Geomancer's defense: Keep the same
  • Adept

    1. Elemental Shielding: keep the same
    2. Earth's embrace: keep the same
    3. Stable Signet: Signets grant 1 stack of stability for four seconds
  • Master

    1. Geomancer's Training: keep the same
    2. Rock Solid: Gain stability on attuning to earth, stability grants 200 toughness
    3. Punishing Blast: Blast finishes cripple and weaken foes for 2 seconds
  • Grandmaster

    1. Stone Heart: Protection reduces critical damage to the elementalist by 33%
    2. Written in Stone: Keep the same
    3. Diamond Skin: Remove a condition when struck while under the effects of protection receive 33% less condition damage while under the effects of protection(3 sec icd)

WaterWater trait line is focused around support through healing, condition hate, and chill

  • Minor

    1. Soothing Mist: keep the same
    2. Healing Ripple: keep the same
    3. Aquatic Healing: Healing is 15% more effective both to allies and you
  • Adept

    1. Soothing Ice: Keep the Same
    2. Conditional Healing: Heal yourself and allies 2% more for each condition on them or you
    3. Stop, Drop, and Roll: Dodging removes a damaging and non-damaging condition from nearby allies
  • Master

    1. Soothing Disruption: Keep the Same but boons are now aoe
    2. Cool Relief: Foes you chill pulse healing to allies while chilled
    3. Aquamancers training: Keep the same, but changed damage boost to remove condition from allies on attuning to water
  • Grandmaster

    1. Cleansing Water: Keep the same
    2. Soothing Power: Soothing Mist is 100% more effective, Healing to allies is 25% more effective
    3. Chilling Vulnerability: Gain frost aura for 4 seconds on attuning to water, Applying chill applies 3 stacks of vulnerablity for 8 seconds, Vulnerability now reduces the damage the enemy deals instead of increasing the damage they take

ArcaneArcane trait line focuses on boons, evasion, arcanes skills, and random stuff

  • Minor

    1. Arcane Prowess: keep as is
    2. Elemental Attunement: Keep as is
    3. Elemental Enchantment: Keep as is
  • Adept

    1. Renewing stamina: keep as is
    2. Arcane Precision: keep as is
    3. Arcane Abatement: increase healing
  • Master

    1. Arcane Ressurection: Good for support i guess, leave alone.
    2. Elemental Contingency: leave as is
    3. Final Shielding: Leave as is
  • Grandmaster

    1. Evasive Arcana: Leave as is
    2. Elemental Surge: Leave as is
    3. Bountiful Strenght: Deal increased damage for each boon you have. Gain 2 endurance when you gain a boon.

Why these changes?

FireThese changes to the fire trait line give the elementalist three roles to invest in, with added endurance regen for active defense.

  1. Boon Removal
  2. Offensive buffs and condition removal through auras
  3. General damage through percent damage boosts and improved and faster might that frees ele from rotation to compensate for having to take survivability amulets

Air

  1. High single target damage through stat boosts
  2. Playstyle focused around cc and debuffs with some extra damage thrown in
  3. Fresh air is still viable, but now with the revised Bolt to the Heart, air can be a good choice for a damage boost for builds that don't focus on cc or fresh air

Earth

  1. Provides great personal survivability but offers little to allies
  2. Can focus on stability, protection, or dealing with condis depending on your needs

Water

  1. Offers greater support options to hopefully bring elementalist back as a top tier support especially if combined with aura traits in fire line
  2. Can focus on aoe condition removal or improved healing or debuffing enemies

ArcaneArcane is alright in my opinion, didn't change much. Biggest change was giving a bit of survivability through evades to make bountiful power worth a choice and give an option for more active defense and damage avoidance at the expensive of the utility offered by the other two gm traits.

ConclusionBy increasing the strength of trait lines, Ele will now be able to compensate for its inferior stats and lack of defense. Furthermore, since each trait line focuses on excelling at certain roles, ele will be able to perform certain roles such as boon hate or support at a competitive level.

Great ideas for improving Core Ele. I like how you replaced a lot of useless traits that most ele's don't use. Also, a lot of the changes now effects Ele as a whole, instead of just one attunement at a time. Fire has the best ideas, cause as of right now, that trait is pretty useless.

This is coming from a sPvP perspective: For Earth, Stone Heart currently reduces crits all together. Even though you have to camp in Earth. I would rather camp then reduce the protection to only 33% reduction.

For Water, a lot of people used cleansing wave when I last checked. I wonder what's the response for replacing that one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Stallic.2397 said:

@Zuko.7132 said:Elementalist is in a bad place in pvp for two reasons.
  1. Elementalist base stats and active defenses are terrible forcing eles to run survivability amulets, which makes them useless
  2. Elementalists don't do anything better than another profession can and have weak traits.

How to fix?
  • Give each core trait line a purpose that provides a viable role for ele.
  • Boost Elementalist survivability through trait lines

Fire
Fire trait line will be focused around might/damage, auras, and boon removal
  • Minor Traits
    1. Burning Precision: 50% Chance on crit to inflict burning for 2 seconds, 3 sec icd per enemy,
    2. Sunspot: Same as before except it now removes a boon from all enemies it hits.
    3. Burning Rage: keep the same, but add burning a foe grants 10 endurance, 5 sec icd
  • Adept
    1. Empowering Aura: Auras grant 200 power, effect does not stack
    2. Extreme Might10 extra Power and Condition Damage per might stack for ele only
    3. Cleansing Flames: Burning an enemy removes a boon, 5 sec icd per enemy
  • Master
    1. Pyromancers Training, keep the same,
    2. Smoothering Auras: keep the same, but add removing a condition from an ally grants 10 endurance
    3. Cauterize: Removing a boon inflicts damage
  • Grandmaster
    1. Burning Strength: Gain 3 stacks of might for 10 seconds when you burn a foe. 2 sec icd. Deal 10% more damage while under the effects of might.
    2. Explosive Purification: Create a fire explosion when striking a burning enemy that deals damage and removes 5 boons from all enemies hit. 15 sec icd.
    3. Powerful Aura: Any aura you grant yourself is granted to nearby allies, auras grant fury and might

Air
Air trait line will be focused on vulnerability, cc, mobility, and critical damage

*Minor
  1. Zephyr's Speed: Keep the 25% movement speed buff but also add 3 seconds of superspeed upon attuning to air.
  2. Electric Discharge: Keep the Same
  3. Raging Storm: keep the same
  • Adept
    1. Zephyr's boon: Fury grants an extra 10% crit chance
    2. Crippling Weakness: Applying Weakness inflicts cripple and 3 stacks of vuln for 3 seconds
    3. Speedy Demise: Deal 7% more damage while under the effects of superspeed
  • Master
    1. Aeromancers Training: Keep the same
    2. Tempest Defense: Keep the same
    3. Inscription: Keep the same, but add casting a glyph grants a buff to nearby allies that causes their next 3 attacks cast Electric discharge
  • Grandmaster
    1. Fresh air: keep the same
    2. Lighting rod: keep the same, but add electric discharge dazes for 1 second
    3. Bolt to the Heart: Electric discharge now applies 7 stacks of vuln for 10 seconds and Critical hits have a 50% chance to cast electric discharge 3 sec icd, the Electric Discharge applies a five second effect on your target that increases your damage to them by 15%

Earth
Earth trait line will be focused on personal protection, stability, signets, blasts, and condition protection
  • Minor
    1. Protective Blast: Gain Protection for 3 seconds when performing a blast finisher
    2. Earthen Blast: keep the same but is now a blast finisher
    3. Geomancer's defense: Keep the same
  • Adept
    1. Elemental Shielding: keep the same
    2. Earth's embrace: keep the same
    3. Stable Signet: Signets grant 1 stack of stability for four seconds
  • Master
    1. Geomancer's Training: keep the same
    2. Rock Solid: Gain stability on attuning to earth, stability grants 200 toughness
    3. Punishing Blast: Blast finishes cripple and weaken foes for 2 seconds
  • Grandmaster
    1. Stone Heart: Protection reduces critical damage to the elementalist by 33%
    2. Written in Stone: Keep the same
    3. Diamond Skin: Remove a condition when struck while under the effects of protection receive 33% less condition damage while under the effects of protection(3 sec icd)

Water
Water trait line is focused around support through healing, condition hate, and chill
  • Minor
    1. Soothing Mist: keep the same
    2. Healing Ripple: keep the same
    3. Aquatic Healing: Healing is 15% more effective both to allies and you
  • Adept
    1. Soothing Ice: Keep the Same
    2. Conditional Healing: Heal yourself and allies 2% more for each condition on them or you
    3. Stop, Drop, and Roll: Dodging removes a damaging and non-damaging condition from nearby allies
  • Master
    1. Soothing Disruption: Keep the Same but boons are now aoe
    2. Cool Relief: Foes you chill pulse healing to allies while chilled
    3. Aquamancers training: Keep the same, but changed damage boost to remove condition from allies on attuning to water
  • Grandmaster
    1. Cleansing Water: Keep the same
    2. Soothing Power: Soothing Mist is 100% more effective, Healing to allies is 25% more effective
    3. Chilling Vulnerability: Gain frost aura for 4 seconds on attuning to water, Applying chill applies 3 stacks of vulnerablity for 8 seconds, Vulnerability now reduces the damage the enemy deals instead of increasing the damage they take

Arcane
Arcane trait line focuses on boons, evasion, arcanes skills, and random stuff
  • Minor
    1. Arcane Prowess: keep as is
    2. Elemental Attunement: Keep as is
    3. Elemental Enchantment: Keep as is
  • Adept
    1. Renewing stamina: keep as is
    2. Arcane Precision: keep as is
    3. Arcane Abatement: increase healing
  • Master
    1. Arcane Ressurection: Good for support i guess, leave alone.
    2. Elemental Contingency: leave as is
    3. Final Shielding: Leave as is
  • Grandmaster
    1. Evasive Arcana: Leave as is
    2. Elemental Surge: Leave as is
    3. Bountiful Strenght: Deal increased damage for each boon you have. Gain 2 endurance when you gain a boon.

Why these changes?

Fire
These changes to the fire trait line give the elementalist three roles to invest in, with added endurance regen for active defense.
  1. Boon Removal
  2. Offensive buffs and condition removal through auras
  3. General damage through percent damage boosts and improved and faster might that frees ele from rotation to compensate for having to take survivability amulets

Air
  1. High single target damage through stat boosts
  2. Playstyle focused around cc and debuffs with some extra damage thrown in
  3. Fresh air is still viable, but now with the revised Bolt to the Heart, air can be a good choice for a damage boost for builds that don't focus on cc or fresh air

Earth
  1. Provides great personal survivability but offers little to allies
  2. Can focus on stability, protection, or dealing with condis depending on your needs

Water
  1. Offers greater support options to hopefully bring elementalist back as a top tier support especially if combined with aura traits in fire line
  2. Can focus on aoe condition removal or improved healing or debuffing enemies

Arcane
Arcane is alright in my opinion, didn't change much. Biggest change was giving a bit of survivability through evades to make bountiful power worth a choice and give an option for more active defense and damage avoidance at the expensive of the utility offered by the other two gm traits.

Conclusion
By increasing the strength of trait lines, Ele will now be able to compensate for its inferior stats and lack of defense. Furthermore, since each trait line focuses on excelling at certain roles, ele will be able to perform certain roles such as boon hate or support at a competitive level.

Great ideas for improving Core Ele. I like how you replaced a lot of useless traits that most ele's don't use. Also, a lot of the changes now effects Ele as a whole, instead of just one attunement at a time. Fire has the best ideas, cause as of right now, that trait is pretty useless.

This is coming from a sPvP perspective: For Earth, Stone Heart currently reduces crits all together. Even though you have to camp in Earth. I would rather camp then reduce the protection to only 33% reduction.

For Water, a lot of people used cleansing wave when I last checked. I wonder what's the response for replacing that one.

The cleanse on water swap was merged with the water cooldown trait to replace the damage boost, cause damage boost in water is dumb. I hear that, but I don't like the idea of having to camp earth to make use of it. Perhaps 33% is a bit weak though. Maybe 40 or 50 or an added aoe weakness on crit with an icd. A lot of ele is based on rotations so having earth as a reactive panic button doesn't work for rotation builds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Zuko.7132" said:Elementalist is in a bad place in pvp for two reasons.

  1. Elementalist base stats and active defenses are terrible forcing eles to run survivability amulets, which makes them useless
  2. Elementalists don't do anything better than another profession can and have weak traits.

How to fix?

  • Give each core trait line a purpose that provides a viable role for ele.
  • Boost Elementalist survivability through trait lines

FireFire trait line will be focused around might/damage, auras, and boon removal, with a bit of endurance regen

  • Minor Traits

    1. Burning Precision: 50% Chance on crit to inflict burning for 2 seconds, 3 sec icd per enemy,
    2. Sunspot: Same as before except it now removes a boon from all enemies it hits.
    3. Burning Rage: keep the same, but add burning a foe grants 10 endurance, 5 sec icd
  • Adept

    1. Empowering Aura: Auras grant 200 power, effect does not stack
    2. Extreme Might10 extra Power and Condition Damage per might stack for ele only
    3. Cleansing Flames: Burning an enemy removes a boon, 5 sec icd per enemy
  • Master

    1. Pyromancers Training, keep the same,
    2. Smoothering Auras: keep the same, but add removing a condition from an ally grants 10 endurance
    3. Cauterize: Removing a boon inflicts damage
  • Grandmaster

    1. Burning Strength: Gain 3 stacks of might for 10 seconds when you burn a foe. 2 sec icd. Deal 10% more damage while under the effects of might.
    2. Explosive Purification: Create a fire explosion when striking a burning enemy that deals damage and removes 5 boons from all enemies hit. 15 sec icd.
    3. Powerful Aura: Any aura you grant yourself is granted to nearby allies, auras grant fury and might

AirAir trait line will be focused on vulnerability, cc, mobility, and critical damage

*Minor

  1. Zephyr's Speed: Keep the 25% movement speed buff but also add 3 seconds of superspeed upon attuning to air.
  2. Electric Discharge: Keep the Same
  3. Raging Storm: keep the same
  • Adept

    1. Zephyr's boon: Fury grants an extra 10% crit chance
    2. Crippling Weakness: Applying Weakness inflicts cripple and 3 stacks of vuln for 3 seconds
    3. Speedy Demise: Deal 7% more damage while under the effects of superspeed
  • Master

    1. Aeromancers Training: Keep the same
    2. Tempest Defense: Keep the same
    3. Inscription: Keep the same, but add casting a glyph grants a buff to nearby allies that causes their next 3 attacks cast Electric discharge
  • Grandmaster

    1. Fresh air: keep the same
    2. Lighting rod: keep the same, but add electric discharge dazes for 1 second
    3. Bolt to the Heart: Electric discharge now applies 7 stacks of vuln for 10 seconds and Critical hits have a 50% chance to cast electric discharge 3 sec icd, the Electric Discharge applies a five second effect on your target that increases your damage to them by 15%

EarthEarth trait line will be focused on personal protection, stability, signets, blasts, and condition protection

  • Minor

    1. Protective Blast: Gain Protection for 3 seconds when performing a blast finisher
    2. Earthen Blast: keep the same but is now a blast finisher
    3. Geomancer's defense: Keep the same
  • Adept

    1. Elemental Shielding: keep the same
    2. Earth's embrace: keep the same
    3. Stable Signet: Signets grant 1 stack of stability for four seconds
  • Master

    1. Geomancer's Training: keep the same
    2. Rock Solid: Gain stability on attuning to earth, stability grants 200 toughness
    3. Punishing Blast: Blast finishes cripple and weaken foes for 2 seconds
  • Grandmaster

    1. Stone Heart: Protection reduces critical damage to the elementalist by 50%
    2. Written in Stone: Keep the same
    3. Diamond Skin: Remove a condition when struck while under the effects of protection receive 33% less condition damage while under the effects of protection(3 sec icd)

WaterWater trait line is focused around support through healing, condition hate, and chill

  • Minor

    1. Soothing Mist: keep the same
    2. Healing Ripple: keep the same
    3. Aquatic Healing: Healing is 15% more effective both to allies and you
  • Adept

    1. Soothing Ice: Keep the Same
    2. Conditional Healing: Heal yourself and allies 2% more for each condition on them or you
    3. Stop, Drop, and Roll: Dodging removes a damaging and non-damaging condition from nearby allies
  • Master

    1. Soothing Disruption: Keep the Same but boons are now aoe
    2. Cool Relief: Foes you chill pulse healing to allies while chilled
    3. Aquamancers training: Keep the same, but changed damage boost to remove condition from allies on attuning to water
  • Grandmaster

    1. Cleansing Water: Keep the same
    2. Soothing Power: Soothing Mist is 100% more effective, Healing to allies is 25% more effective
    3. Chilling Vulnerability: Gain frost aura for 4 seconds on attuning to water, Applying chill applies 3 stacks of vulnerablity for 8 seconds, Vulnerability now reduces the damage the enemy deals instead of increasing the damage they take

ArcaneArcane trait line focuses on boons, evasion, arcanes skills, and random stuff

  • Minor

    1. Arcane Prowess: keep as is
    2. Elemental Attunement: Keep as is
    3. Elemental Enchantment: Keep as is
  • Adept

    1. Renewing stamina: keep as is
    2. Arcane Precision: keep as is
    3. Arcane Abatement: increase healing
  • Master

    1. Arcane Ressurection: Good for support i guess, leave alone.
    2. Elemental Contingency: leave as is
    3. Final Shielding: Leave as is
  • Grandmaster

    1. Evasive Arcana: Leave as is
    2. Elemental Surge: Leave as is
    3. Bountiful Strenght: Deal increased damage for each boon you have. Gain 2 endurance when you gain a boon.

Why these changes?

FireThese changes to the fire trait line give the elementalist three roles to invest in, with added endurance regen for active defense.

  1. Boon Removal
  2. Offensive buffs and condition removal through auras
  3. General damage through percent damage boosts and improved and faster might that frees ele from rotation to compensate for having to take survivability amulets

Air

  1. High single target damage through stat boosts
  2. Playstyle focused around cc and debuffs with some extra damage thrown in
  3. Fresh air is still viable, but now with the revised Bolt to the Heart, air can be a good choice for a damage boost for builds that don't focus on cc or fresh air

Earth

  1. Provides great personal survivability but offers little to allies
  2. Can focus on stability, protection, or dealing with condis depending on your needs

Water

  1. Offers greater support options to hopefully bring elementalist back as a top tier support especially if combined with aura traits in fire line
  2. Can focus on aoe condition removal or improved healing or debuffing enemies

ArcaneArcane is alright in my opinion, didn't change much. Biggest change was giving a bit of survivability through evades to make bountiful power worth a choice and give an option for more active defense and damage avoidance at the expensive of the utility offered by the other two gm traits.

ConclusionBy increasing the strength of trait lines, Ele will now be able to compensate for its inferior stats and lack of defense. Furthermore, since each trait line focuses on excelling at certain roles, ele will be able to perform certain roles such as boon hate or support at a competitive level.

I see some issues, but I also like some trait-merge suggestions and additional efects on traits like sunspot, stop drop & roll, lightning rod (might be a bit too strong with no icd though) etc.

Some major traits focus on same thing (in both your suggestions and game currently), which should be avoided (for example all air GM traits are damage focused, leaving no place for potential mobility, CC, vuln or support traits; similar with water GMs who have no offensive alternative).

Core ele has terrible aura application, there's no need for more than one aura improvement trait per spec, like the current one in fire (cleanse on application + detonation). Buffing with auras should be tempest's job, half of its traits are worthless anyway.

You have no viable traits for condi builds.

I'd also like to mention that ele is class with lowest amount of base stats, so it needs to have additional stats through traits (a lot of classes have such traits regardless of their base stat dominance, on top of semi easy uptime of both stat buffs and certain boons, most notably might). Weaver and tempest do a decent job with their minor traits, but they are elite specs, not core. Current first minor traits on core specs are quite good, they are just very hard to upkeep and they still cant compare to some traits on other classes (warr gets 1k toughness from one trait).

The reason why ele is weak as "solo" class is due to weak base values on skills. The reason why ele has biggest damage potential in game is because lots of skills scale incredibly well with power. Ele cant buff itself to reach high numbers on its own. Even if it could buff itself, ele cant invest everything into offense due to fragile nature. That's why we need passive self buffs with easier uptime, or just higher base damage/heal values on skills.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@steki.1478 said:

I see some issues, but I also like some trait-merge suggestions and additional efects on traits like sunspot, stop drop & roll, lightning rod (might be a bit too strong with no icd though) etc.

Some major traits focus on same thing (in both your suggestions and game currently), which should be avoided (for example all air GM traits are damage focused, leaving no place for potential mobility, CC, vuln or support traits; similar with water GMs who have no offensive alternative).

Core ele has terrible aura application, there's no need for more than one aura improvement trait per spec, like the current one in fire (cleanse on application + detonation). Buffing with auras should be tempest's job, half of its traits are worthless anyway.

You have no viable traits for condi builds.

Well as far as air GM goes, they all support different playstyles. One does focus on cc and debuffing with weakness, and the other through vulnerability application, while fresh air is pure damage and utility. I think air in general should be a damage line, plus the mobility through superspeed is already there. Just different choices on how to do damage with different choices being superior for different weaponsets. I see your point, but I think traitlines such as water and air should have a general theme such as damage or support but different ways to implement that support or damage where the optimal one varies based on your weapon choice and the enemy comp. For example in water, there are straight healing options, condition removal options, or debuffing the enemy options.

As far as auras go, with these new traits a d/d core elementalist Elementalist running water fire arcane would get 4 seconds of aura uptime from attuning to water, 4 from attuning to fire, the frost aura on crit, lightning aura from air 3, frost aura from water 4, and fire aura from earth 3 in fire field, which would all be aoe, remove conditions, grant vigor, grant fury, grant might, and grant 200 power to allies, so i don't think auras would be too bad for core under this. Auras are certainly better with tempest, but the fire traitline is the only one that's actually dedicated to auras and then only with one trait in each choice. The frost auras in water serve other purposes such as cleansing condi and inflicting chill for healing and damage reduction.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@steki.1478 said:

@"Zuko.7132" said:Elementalist is in a bad place in pvp for two reasons.
  1. Elementalist base stats and active defenses are terrible forcing eles to run survivability amulets, which makes them useless
  2. Elementalists don't do anything better than another profession can and have weak traits.

How to fix?
  • Give each core trait line a purpose that provides a viable role for ele.
  • Boost Elementalist survivability through trait lines

Fire
Fire trait line will be focused around might/damage, auras, and boon removal, with a bit of endurance regen
  • Minor Traits
    1. Burning Precision: 50% Chance on crit to inflict burning for 2 seconds, 3 sec icd per enemy,
    2. Sunspot: Same as before except it now removes a boon from all enemies it hits.
    3. Burning Rage: keep the same, but add burning a foe grants 10 endurance, 5 sec icd
  • Adept
    1. Empowering Aura: Auras grant 200 power, effect does not stack
    2. Extreme Might10 extra Power and Condition Damage per might stack for ele only
    3. Cleansing Flames: Burning an enemy removes a boon, 5 sec icd per enemy
  • Master
    1. Pyromancers Training, keep the same,
    2. Smoothering Auras: keep the same, but add removing a condition from an ally grants 10 endurance
    3. Cauterize: Removing a boon inflicts damage
  • Grandmaster
    1. Burning Strength: Gain 3 stacks of might for 10 seconds when you burn a foe. 2 sec icd. Deal 10% more damage while under the effects of might.
    2. Explosive Purification: Create a fire explosion when striking a burning enemy that deals damage and removes 5 boons from all enemies hit. 15 sec icd.
    3. Powerful Aura: Any aura you grant yourself is granted to nearby allies, auras grant fury and might

Air
Air trait line will be focused on vulnerability, cc, mobility, and critical damage

*Minor
  1. Zephyr's Speed: Keep the 25% movement speed buff but also add 3 seconds of superspeed upon attuning to air.
  2. Electric Discharge: Keep the Same
  3. Raging Storm: keep the same
  • Adept
    1. Zephyr's boon: Fury grants an extra 10% crit chance
    2. Crippling Weakness: Applying Weakness inflicts cripple and 3 stacks of vuln for 3 seconds
    3. Speedy Demise: Deal 7% more damage while under the effects of superspeed
  • Master
    1. Aeromancers Training: Keep the same
    2. Tempest Defense: Keep the same
    3. Inscription: Keep the same, but add casting a glyph grants a buff to nearby allies that causes their next 3 attacks cast Electric discharge
  • Grandmaster
    1. Fresh air: keep the same
    2. Lighting rod: keep the same, but add electric discharge dazes for 1 second
    3. Bolt to the Heart: Electric discharge now applies 7 stacks of vuln for 10 seconds and Critical hits have a 50% chance to cast electric discharge 3 sec icd, the Electric Discharge applies a five second effect on your target that increases your damage to them by 15%

Earth
Earth trait line will be focused on personal protection, stability, signets, blasts, and condition protection
  • Minor
    1. Protective Blast: Gain Protection for 3 seconds when performing a blast finisher
    2. Earthen Blast: keep the same but is now a blast finisher
    3. Geomancer's defense: Keep the same
  • Adept
    1. Elemental Shielding: keep the same
    2. Earth's embrace: keep the same
    3. Stable Signet: Signets grant 1 stack of stability for four seconds
  • Master
    1. Geomancer's Training: keep the same
    2. Rock Solid: Gain stability on attuning to earth, stability grants 200 toughness
    3. Punishing Blast: Blast finishes cripple and weaken foes for 2 seconds
  • Grandmaster
    1. Stone Heart: Protection reduces critical damage to the elementalist by 50%
    2. Written in Stone: Keep the same
    3. Diamond Skin: Remove a condition when struck while under the effects of protection receive 33% less condition damage while under the effects of protection(3 sec icd)

Water
Water trait line is focused around support through healing, condition hate, and chill
  • Minor
    1. Soothing Mist: keep the same
    2. Healing Ripple: keep the same
    3. Aquatic Healing: Healing is 15% more effective both to allies and you
  • Adept
    1. Soothing Ice: Keep the Same
    2. Conditional Healing: Heal yourself and allies 2% more for each condition on them or you
    3. Stop, Drop, and Roll: Dodging removes a damaging and non-damaging condition from nearby allies
  • Master
    1. Soothing Disruption: Keep the Same but boons are now aoe
    2. Cool Relief: Foes you chill pulse healing to allies while chilled
    3. Aquamancers training: Keep the same, but changed damage boost to remove condition from allies on attuning to water
  • Grandmaster
    1. Cleansing Water: Keep the same
    2. Soothing Power: Soothing Mist is 100% more effective, Healing to allies is 25% more effective
    3. Chilling Vulnerability: Gain frost aura for 4 seconds on attuning to water, Applying chill applies 3 stacks of vulnerablity for 8 seconds, Vulnerability now reduces the damage the enemy deals instead of increasing the damage they take

Arcane
Arcane trait line focuses on boons, evasion, arcanes skills, and random stuff
  • Minor
    1. Arcane Prowess: keep as is
    2. Elemental Attunement: Keep as is
    3. Elemental Enchantment: Keep as is
  • Adept
    1. Renewing stamina: keep as is
    2. Arcane Precision: keep as is
    3. Arcane Abatement: increase healing
  • Master
    1. Arcane Ressurection: Good for support i guess, leave alone.
    2. Elemental Contingency: leave as is
    3. Final Shielding: Leave as is
  • Grandmaster
    1. Evasive Arcana: Leave as is
    2. Elemental Surge: Leave as is
    3. Bountiful Strenght: Deal increased damage for each boon you have. Gain 2 endurance when you gain a boon.

Why these changes?

Fire
These changes to the fire trait line give the elementalist three roles to invest in, with added endurance regen for active defense.
  1. Boon Removal
  2. Offensive buffs and condition removal through auras
  3. General damage through percent damage boosts and improved and faster might that frees ele from rotation to compensate for having to take survivability amulets

Air
  1. High single target damage through stat boosts
  2. Playstyle focused around cc and debuffs with some extra damage thrown in
  3. Fresh air is still viable, but now with the revised Bolt to the Heart, air can be a good choice for a damage boost for builds that don't focus on cc or fresh air

Earth
  1. Provides great personal survivability but offers little to allies
  2. Can focus on stability, protection, or dealing with condis depending on your needs

Water
  1. Offers greater support options to hopefully bring elementalist back as a top tier support especially if combined with aura traits in fire line
  2. Can focus on aoe condition removal or improved healing or debuffing enemies

Arcane
Arcane is alright in my opinion, didn't change much. Biggest change was giving a bit of survivability through evades to make bountiful power worth a choice and give an option for more active defense and damage avoidance at the expensive of the utility offered by the other two gm traits.

Conclusion
By increasing the strength of trait lines, Ele will now be able to compensate for its inferior stats and lack of defense. Furthermore, since each trait line focuses on excelling at certain roles, ele will be able to perform certain roles such as boon hate or support at a competitive level.

I see some issues, but I also like some trait-merge suggestions and additional efects on traits like sunspot, stop drop & roll, lightning rod (might be a bit too strong with no icd though) etc.

Some major traits focus on same thing (in both your suggestions and game currently), which should be avoided (for example all air GM traits are damage focused, leaving no place for potential mobility, CC, vuln or support traits; similar with water GMs who have no offensive alternative).

Core ele has terrible aura application, there's no need for more than one aura improvement trait per spec, like the current one in fire (cleanse on application + detonation). Buffing with auras should be tempest's job, half of its traits are worthless anyway.

You have no viable traits for condi builds.

I'd also like to mention that ele is class with lowest amount of base stats, so it needs to have additional stats through traits (a lot of classes have such traits regardless of their base stat dominance, on top of semi easy uptime of both stat buffs and certain boons, most notably might). Weaver and tempest do a decent job with their minor traits, but they are elite specs, not core. Current first minor traits on core specs are quite good, they are just very hard to upkeep and they still cant compare to some traits on other classes (warr gets 1k toughness from one trait).

The reason why ele is weak as "solo" class is due to weak base values on skills. The reason why ele has biggest damage potential in game is because lots of skills scale incredibly well with power. Ele cant buff itself to reach high numbers on its own. Even if it could buff itself, ele cant invest everything into offense due to fragile nature. That's why we need passive self buffs with easier uptime, or just higher base damage/heal values on skills.

As far as condi goes, ele doesn't have a viable condi weapon set. We can get some nice hybrid damage, but sole condi will always be inferior which is why I don't have much condi stuff. I tried to compensate for the low base stats with the improved might, faster might stacking, and percent damage increases in fire, which should apply even if not attuned to fire. I gave air some flat damage modifiers as well as stat increases or damage increase through vuln or procced attacks which should also help. In earth i enabled more frequent and improved prot as well as a toughness boost which is possible while under stab. For water I made the healing boost also apply to the ele for the minor trait.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Would love to see some more survivability without needing to play support. Every other class can play a good dps build without sacrificing too much of it's survivability (like rev, necro, mesmer, engi, war,.... well basically all of them). Also I think that ele has the problem of underperforming at every role to some other proffesion. Basically anything we can do they can do better. I though that weaver would achieve this but it's just another variation of the same thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Gaile Gray.6029" said:Those of you who care about the ele and its balance, please join this thread and continue to add your thoughtful and constructive comments. Thank you.

Constructive comments... great but is there any possibilites for constructive changes? Or it will be again something "constructive" like 5 % more for barrier and something 5 % less health points for example :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@"Quasar.1756" said:Ok, so let's get to the nitty gritty of things.

What is the "biggest' issue with Elementalists? - and - What can Anet do to satisfy / appease the Elementalist community of GW2?

All replies are welcomed.

just some:low HP: Why do Necros have more HP, good health, can cast long time marks and wells on the move and do their walking aoe of death run?

I'll answer this one. Because necro's have something called cooldowns. What they don't have are invulns, blocks, evades or some pseudo-immunity to conditions.By all means, give necros less overall health, but let us get some good invluns, blocks and reflects to compensate. And if you're going to lower our health, lets not have our shroud be depended on how much health we have. Maybe that's the issue. Lets have a nice bulky amount across the board so we can also run zerkers like every other class in the game.

CCs: a jokethe only ones not laughing are necros. Especially core necro. Yuck

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...