List of simple nerfs that would fix current PvP — Guild Wars 2 Forums

List of simple nerfs that would fix current PvP

Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited October 7, 2018 in PVP

I believe that a resemblance of balance in this game is purposely avoided for unknown reasons , the real issues are so blatlanty obvious and they don't require massive experience in game designing to recognize and don't definitely require multiple patches with extensive nerfs to fix......

1.Mesmer
-https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lingering_Thoughts
-https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Axes_of_Symmetry
-http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Imaginary_Axes

2.Engineer
-https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Holographic_Shockwave

3.Warrior
-https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Full_Counter
-https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revenge_Counter

4.Ranger
-https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Moa_Stance

About warrior, the full counter mechanic is not really OP in itself, the implementation is wrong , the damage component should be removed and wouldn't mind a 2-4s CD reduction as compensation, holoforge skill 5 is just nut...it bypass LoS/walls and altitude...absolutely ridiculous. Moa stance is just busted with its 15s duration over 25s CD...kitten....and finally mirage, we do get that it's supposed to be the best duellist in the game ( they have a traitline called "duellist" after all ) but the condi application of axe mirage is just stupid, must cut the stacks of confusion/torments by at least 65%.

The rest is just all L2P and necessary buffs/changes to forgotten ones

-A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

<1

Comments

  • Zuko.7132Zuko.7132 Member ✭✭✭

    If condi falls severely out of favor I would also say magebane tether should be looked at on war. Bit too much benefit for no effort.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    Fantastic suggestions. Honestly, they're amazing.

    Having a 6 second cooldown on Full Counter? Genius!
    I would definitely love having a 6 second cooldown evade, AoE daze, burst refresher, adrenal health proc, unblockable double boon remover, and 100 power/ferocity damage buff. Of course, it would be balanced because it no longer does 908 damage. !_!

    If Holographic Shockwave didn't go over terrain, the entire spec would be balanced! Like you said, THIS is the real issue with the class.
    It's definitely not the fact that they have access to:

    1. near permanent quickness uptime through elixirs and kinetic battery
    2. 2 second cooldown 1000 base damage leap
    3. 5/6 uptime on 2 stacks of stability
    4. 24 second cooldown rampage/tornado
    5. 2500 base damage auto chain
    6. Long duration, short cooldown cc chains

    I won't even go over the other ones because they make so much sense. I'm very glad you understand the current meta builds, what makes them strong, and how to balance them. :+1:

    You fail to understand how the whole MMO genre works .....You see there are people who actually wants a challenge and at the same time they want others to have fun while playing their favourite class, a shocker for you no doubt.

    You again fail to read the whole OP where I clearly stated that :"The rest is just all L2P and necessary buffs/changes to forgotten ones", yes we're talking about melee specs and they're supposed to hurt you badly upclose.

    1. near permanent quickness uptime through elixirs and kinetic battery...and?
    2. 2 second cooldown 1000 base damage leap...kite/dodge/run maybe?
    3. 5/6 uptime on 2 stacks of stability...time your CC?...yeah for that you should know first what timing is, which is quite diffucult for those used to follow a rotation with their copy/paste meta build
    4. 24 second cooldown rampage/tornado...kite maybe?...too much druid gameplay and people forget the basics of stealth/kiting on base ranger
    5. 2500 base damage auto chain....pfff...since when has been direct dmg a mortal danger for rangers?
    6. Long duration, short cooldown cc chains...honestly for how long have you been playing ranger?..it seems to me that you forgot the most basic tactics commonly used against tough targets ,may I suggest you to play core ranger for an extensive period of time in ranked? ,it helps greatly to improve your reaction times when you can't rely on the gimmicks of HoT/PoF expansions.

    Do you understand than going melee means going against all possible ranged kitten throwed at you and that after managing to get close you must deal enough dmg to scare off the opponent?
    Here let me link the description of typical warrior in the MMO genre:

    The Brute

    The brute used to be the main tank in the game, that is, until the Paladins arrived. Brutes are technically the Berserkers, Champions, Warriors, Barbarians, and Knights we know and love. They have high HP and pack a whole lot of PAIN. They are also capable of wearing the highest form of armor in terms of defense, but lack magic defense most of the time. Brutes are always better than spell casters in terms of PVP (despite their lack of knowledge). All they need to do is hack and slash, eventually taking the flag emerging victorious. They don’t really have to be buff, just as long as they fit the description. Take pain and deliver MORE PAIN. That’s all that matters.

    As you can see, any dev in any game will have to follow this description because that's what players using a melee spec will expect, failing to understand that is to fail to understand how MMO work

    Take this other one as bonus

    The Ranger

    Rangers (Archers, Hunters, Bowmen, Gunner) are mid balanced characters who specialize in the field of nature. They can tame beasts as well as other creatures of the wild to aid them in battle. Rangers are similar to the likes of Legolas (Lord of the Rings) with a few extra kinks, such as not being limited to bow wielding <_< LOL. Rangers are excellent trackers as well, giving them the extra hand in PVP. Although these individuals are limited to mid-ranged armor, their allies (or pets) give them an outrageous attack power that can kill even the mightiest of Brutes. They also prefer to fight at long range, along with their pets, but ultimately Rangers are dangerous regardless of range.

    They did a pretty good job here the devs at anet won't you agree?

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:
    'At least 65%' .
    That's just funny.

    Yeah it's called : " reducing condi burst" aka reducing stacks of confusion from 3 to 1-2....if you prefer to see mesmer gutted at core level to compensate for OP mirage..well that's on you

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Poelala.2830 said:
    I can't believe people still think War needs nerfs. It sucks. Remove damage on full counter? Lol.

    War doesn't suck....it is simply overshadowed by few other specs

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2018

    @Poelala.2830 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Poelala.2830 said:
    I can't believe people still think War needs nerfs. It sucks. Remove damage on full counter? Lol.

    War doesn't suck....it is simply overshadowed by few other specs

    War sucks BECAUSE it is overshadowed by MOST specs.

    War problem is that they rely too much on passive gameplay and if that would be gone...it'd be easier to advocate for active sustain buffs like shout heal reduction in CD and casting time etc etc etc but right now it's hard to justify any direct buff to current war...we'd go straight back to PoF launch period with 2-3 spellbreakers per team , see the uncompetitive and unsportman like gw2 community will always flock to the easiest most effective build

    I can't help but remember that the majority of wars I used to meet in wvw or pvp didn't even need to look for their dodge button and that's the whole issue with warrriors in gw2, players got used to lazy passive gameplay and if you take that away now...all hell break loose ...but if you buff them then all hell would break loose either way,

    So no, wars don't suck ,they are overshadowed by few more OP specs in terms of sustain/dmg ratio; the class has well defined traits and developed weapon skills

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • EpicTurtle.8571EpicTurtle.8571 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2018

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:
    'At least 65%' .
    That's just funny.

    Yeah it's called : " reducing condi burst" aka reducing stacks of confusion from 3 to 1-2....if you prefer to see mesmer gutted at core level to compensate for OP mirage..well that's on you

    If you knew how Mesmer worked at all you'd realize Cry of Frustration is what stacks on the confusion which is a core Mesmer skill and Cry of Pain is what gives it extra stacks on the Illusion trait line, which is also core. But it's obvious you don't. You also don't realize that means every single condi cleanse also has to get toned down so sustained condition damage builds can actually work.

  • Tehologist.5841Tehologist.5841 Member ✭✭✭

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:
    'At least 65%' .
    That's just funny.

    Yeah it's called : " reducing condi burst" aka reducing stacks of confusion from 3 to 1-2....if you prefer to see mesmer gutted at core level to compensate for OP mirage..well that's on you

    If you knew how Mesmer worked at all you'd realize Cry of Frustration is what stacks on the confusion which is a core Mesmer skill and Cry of Pain is what gives it extra stacks on the Illusion trait line, which is also core. But it's obvious you don't. You also don't realize that means every single condi cleanse also has to get toned down so sustained condition damage builds can actually work.

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:
    'At least 65%' .
    That's just funny.

    Yeah it's called : " reducing condi burst" aka reducing stacks of confusion from 3 to 1-2....if you prefer to see mesmer gutted at core level to compensate for OP mirage..well that's on you

    If you knew how Mesmer worked at all you'd realize Cry of Frustration is what stacks on the confusion which is a core Mesmer skill and Cry of Pain is what gives it extra stacks on the Illusion trait line, which is also core. But it's obvious you don't. You also don't realize that means every single condi cleanse also has to get toned down so sustained condition damage builds can actually work.

    Toning down condi cleanse and would be awesome, condi engineer would be viable then. I am all for fewer stacks longer duration on conditions.

  • Bossun.2046Bossun.2046 Member ✭✭✭

    leave engi out of your nerf lists, thanks :)

    sugoi monogatari oniichan

  • EpicTurtle.8571EpicTurtle.8571 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tehologist.5841 said:

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:
    'At least 65%' .
    That's just funny.

    Yeah it's called : " reducing condi burst" aka reducing stacks of confusion from 3 to 1-2....if you prefer to see mesmer gutted at core level to compensate for OP mirage..well that's on you

    If you knew how Mesmer worked at all you'd realize Cry of Frustration is what stacks on the confusion which is a core Mesmer skill and Cry of Pain is what gives it extra stacks on the Illusion trait line, which is also core. But it's obvious you don't. You also don't realize that means every single condi cleanse also has to get toned down so sustained condition damage builds can actually work.

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:
    'At least 65%' .
    That's just funny.

    Yeah it's called : " reducing condi burst" aka reducing stacks of confusion from 3 to 1-2....if you prefer to see mesmer gutted at core level to compensate for OP mirage..well that's on you

    If you knew how Mesmer worked at all you'd realize Cry of Frustration is what stacks on the confusion which is a core Mesmer skill and Cry of Pain is what gives it extra stacks on the Illusion trait line, which is also core. But it's obvious you don't. You also don't realize that means every single condi cleanse also has to get toned down so sustained condition damage builds can actually work.

    Toning down condi cleanse and would be awesome, condi engineer would be viable then. I am all for fewer stacks longer duration on conditions.

    It would be awesome, now ask yourself if you think ANet would ever do it

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:
    'At least 65%' .
    That's just funny.

    Yeah it's called : " reducing condi burst" aka reducing stacks of confusion from 3 to 1-2....if you prefer to see mesmer gutted at core level to compensate for OP mirage..well that's on you

    If you knew how Mesmer worked at all you'd realize Cry of Frustration is what stacks on the confusion which is a core Mesmer skill and Cry of Pain is what gives it extra stacks on the Illusion trait line, which is also core. But it's obvious you don't. You also don't realize that means every single condi cleanse also has to get toned down so sustained condition damage builds can actually work.

    Are you suggesting to nerf core mesmer instead than mirage? Ok go on...also if you want to reduce condi cleanse, we must first add ways to decrease condi dmg like new boons, new runes etc etc etc etc

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bossun.2046 said:
    leave engi out of your nerf lists, thanks :)

    People seems to become rather protective when the nerf talk starts....but nerfs are always necessary to rein in the gameplay...and nerfs will come down no matter how much people get passionate about their class, the closer we get to an equal playing field and the better it is for everybody

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Hesacon.8735Hesacon.8735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There's nothing broken about Full Counter. It's super telegraphed and if you hit it, you deserve it. The only balance problem with warriors is how oppressive their stances are, in particular dual casting endure pain.

  • Eugchriss.2046Eugchriss.2046 Member ✭✭✭

    @Hesacon.8735 said:
    There's nothing broken about Full Counter. It's super telegraphed and if you hit it, you deserve it.

    What if you don t hit it, but got hit by that because of your teamates?

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2018

    @Eugchriss.2046 said:

    @Hesacon.8735 said:
    There's nothing broken about Full Counter. It's super telegraphed and if you hit it, you deserve it.

    What if you don t hit it, but got hit by that because of your teamates?

    Or one of your various lasting AoE attacks... or a telegraphed skill with insta FC activation... and that is okay. That's how blocks work, just like dodges. And it is okay to get hit by a counter attack.

    But does it have to stun? Does it have to be unblockable? Does it have to proc a gazillion of boons? Does it need that kind of AoE range (for an unblockable stun)? And - my favourite - does it have to proc adrenal health even though the attack misses?

    Last thing is what they should have changed a couple of pages ago. Or let it scale differently with healing power, forcing warriors to either be sustainy or do damage. But then again, they are quite balanced now - more or less - compared to the other meta builds.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2018

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @calebswag.8265 said:
    holo and soulbeast are op right now and you have no idea why, because you are just some silver player most likely. you are whining about full counter, DON'T HIT IT. you are so stupid it's hilarious. Anet shouldn't listen to people like you and instead balance from the top down like other games. People like you are the reason holo and soulbeast wasn't touched at ALL when they clearly needed nerfs.

    Yup. Not only does the OP not know why the current meta builds are strong, but he also called attention to mechanics that are fine and don't need nerfs.

    Let me correct you......you gave your opinion and that's all really, think what do you want and that can be done better in your own thread where you list the things that should be nerfed...ha don't forget to tell anet your rank in pvp

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hesacon.8735 said:
    There's nothing broken about Full Counter. It's super telegraphed and if you hit it, you deserve it. The only balance problem with warriors is how oppressive their stances are, in particular dual casting endure pain.

    Stances have been brought up since launch and after 6 years nothing has been changed about them, in GW1 they were balanced because each stance would cancel the previous one when activated and that forced wars down a more tactical approach to their fights; in GW2 the wars simply charge in a blaze of glory and that's it really...

    Now FC offers an additional layer of defense and that should be more than enough for the way the game is handled by the devs but instead they decided to add dmg to this already easy to fire mechanic, it's easier to reduce the efficiency of FC than expect anet to rework how stances function in gw2

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2018

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @calebswag.8265 said:
    holo and soulbeast are op right now and you have no idea why, because you are just some silver player most likely. you are whining about full counter, DON'T HIT IT. you are so stupid it's hilarious. Anet shouldn't listen to people like you and instead balance from the top down like other games. People like you are the reason holo and soulbeast wasn't touched at ALL when they clearly needed nerfs.

    Yup. Not only does the OP not know why the current meta builds are strong, but he also called attention to mechanics that are fine and don't need nerfs.

    Let me correct you......you gave your opinion and that's all really, think what do you want and that can be done better in your own thread where you list the things that should be nerfed...ha don't forget to tell anet your rank in pvp

    I like how you ignored my direct response to you and instead chose to respond to my conversation with Caleb.

    All that dmg can be avoided, by running temporarily away, teleport, kiting, blocking etc etc etc....now that becomes quite hard if the holosmith hit you from unholy distance and through walls, that you thought would protect you from the incoming wave or at the very least bought you some time.

    If the engi catchs you with your pants down and kills you with a quickness combo,...well...my hat to him and that's what PvP is about, I am looking for a game where any class has the potential to kill any other one with the same level of effort, now ranger can perform too quickness combos..

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • well don't play this then. You clearly haven't seen holosmith or soulbeast.

  • calebswag.8265calebswag.8265 Member ✭✭
    edited October 7, 2018

    i don't even think you have been in a single PvP match if you think photon 5 is what's wrong with holo. Mesmer is so bad (they autocorrected "poop") now. You want to know the 2 most broken specs right now? Holo and Soulbeast. you can ask anyone with half a brain that question and they will give the same response. You think mirage is so op? go on it and play it for yourself, and then come back with what you think the real problem is. Because it is NOT photon 5 or full counter omegalul.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2018

    First time I agree with shadowpass!

    Can't wait for the 2 engies (can't recall their names) to post how that's all false:

    • Engies hate elixirs because - spew nonsense number 1.
    • Holo shockwave is bad because - spew nonsense number 2.

    The degenerate

  • EpicTurtle.8571EpicTurtle.8571 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 8, 2018

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:
    'At least 65%' .
    That's just funny.

    Yeah it's called : " reducing condi burst" aka reducing stacks of confusion from 3 to 1-2....if you prefer to see mesmer gutted at core level to compensate for OP mirage..well that's on you

    If you knew how Mesmer worked at all you'd realize Cry of Frustration is what stacks on the confusion which is a core Mesmer skill and Cry of Pain is what gives it extra stacks on the Illusion trait line, which is also core. But it's obvious you don't. You also don't realize that means every single condi cleanse also has to get toned down so sustained condition damage builds can actually work.

    Are you suggesting to nerf core mesmer instead than mirage? Ok go on...also if you want to reduce condi cleanse, we must first add ways to decrease condi dmg like new boons, new runes etc etc etc etc

    No, I'm not, don't put words into my mouth. It's clear you don't know how Mesmer even works yet you're calling to nerfs like you're some sort of visionary. You can't tone down condi cleanse and also add more condition defense, otherwise any effective build will still be burst condition. And you actually listed Lingering Thoughts as if it's a problem skill. Just walk out of it, it's an animation lock.

  • @Arheundel.6451 said:

    The Brute

    The brute used to be the main tank in the game, that is, until the Paladins arrived. Brutes are technically the Berserkers, Champions, Warriors, Barbarians, and Knights we know and love. They have high HP and pack a whole lot of PAIN. They are also capable of wearing the highest form of armor in terms of defense, but lack magic defense most of the time. Brutes are always better than spell casters in terms of PVP (despite their lack of knowledge). All they need to do is hack and slash, eventually taking the flag emerging victorious. They don’t really have to be buff, just as long as they fit the description. Take pain and deliver MORE PAIN. That’s all that matters.

    As you can see, any dev in any game will have to follow this description because that's what players using a melee spec will expect, failing to understand that is to fail to understand how MMO work

    Take this other one as bonus

    The Ranger

    Rangers (Archers, Hunters, Bowmen, Gunner) are mid balanced characters who specialize in the field of nature. They can tame beasts as well as other creatures of the wild to aid them in battle. Rangers are similar to the likes of Legolas (Lord of the Rings) with a few extra kinks, such as not being limited to bow wielding <_< LOL. Rangers are excellent trackers as well, giving them the extra hand in PVP. Although these individuals are limited to mid-ranged armor, their allies (or pets) give them an outrageous attack power that can kill even the mightiest of Brutes. They also prefer to fight at long range, along with their pets, but ultimately Rangers are dangerous regardless of range.

    Where are these definitions coming from? If they're not from GW2 (which they obviously are not), how are they so authoritative that 'any dev in any game' has to follow them? Was there some global developers conference to standardize mmo terminology? Even if those were somehow the supergodliketrueallthetime rules, who the hell are you to say that this game, in which you are a mere player like the rest of us, must follow these archetypes? No game is allowed to break convention, ever?

    Your logic is awful, and your attempts to make it sound like you're the only sane one in here are hilarious. The internet is worse for having your kind of reasoning in it.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:
    'At least 65%' .
    That's just funny.

    Yeah it's called : " reducing condi burst" aka reducing stacks of confusion from 3 to 1-2....if you prefer to see mesmer gutted at core level to compensate for OP mirage..well that's on you

    If you knew how Mesmer worked at all you'd realize Cry of Frustration is what stacks on the confusion which is a core Mesmer skill and Cry of Pain is what gives it extra stacks on the Illusion trait line, which is also core. But it's obvious you don't. You also don't realize that means every single condi cleanse also has to get toned down so sustained condition damage builds can actually work.

    I have simply made suggestions to what should be changed about mesmers, in the end anet will make the decision as ofc mesmer will be nerfed even more in the future...there is a balance ideology to follow regardless of how upset the vocal minority can get

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @calebswag.8265 said:
    holo and soulbeast are op right now and you have no idea why, because you are just some silver player most likely. you are whining about full counter, DON'T HIT IT. you are so stupid it's hilarious. Anet shouldn't listen to people like you and instead balance from the top down like other games. People like you are the reason holo and soulbeast wasn't touched at ALL when they clearly needed nerfs.

    Yup. Not only does the OP not know why the current meta builds are strong, but he also called attention to mechanics that are fine and don't need nerfs.

    Let me correct you......you gave your opinion and that's all really, think what do you want and that can be done better in your own thread where you list the things that should be nerfed...ha don't forget to tell anet your rank in pvp

    I like how you ignored my direct response to you and instead chose to respond to my conversation with Caleb.

    1. All that dmg can be avoided, by running temporarily away, teleport, kiting, blocking etc etc etc....now that becomes quite hard if the holosmith hit you from unholy distance and through walls, that you thought would protect you from the incoming wave or at the very least bought you some time.

    If the engi catchs you with your pants down and kills you with a quickness combo,...well...my hat to him and that's what PvP is about, I am looking for a game where any class has the potential to kill any other one with the same level of effort, now ranger can perform too quickness combos..

    Okay, here we go again. To address your first point:

    1. Holosmiths have 5 seconds of superspeed every 7 seconds.
    2. They also have a 600 range leap on a 2 second cooldown. In other words, they can move 1200 range every 4 seconds.

    Conclusion? They are very hard to kite.

    1. If you can so easily avoid a holosmith's autos on point, why do you struggle avoiding a Holographic Shockwave? It is a gigantic, highly telegraphed, immobile attack where the holo leaps up into the air, lands, and causes a slow moving shockwave to extend out from the player. If you honestly think that THIS skill going over terrain is what makes holo broken, you're extremely deluded. Not to mention, you KNOW it ignores line of sight and you still seem to struggle against it.
    2. I'm also going to go on a limb and say that Holographic Shockwave is a lot easier to avoid than it is to kite a holo on a node.

    For your second point:

    1. Holos can maintain permanent quickness. There's no "quickness combo," when they have the boon permanently.
      • Kinetic Battery = 7 seconds of quickness every 7 seconds
      • Elixir U = 10 seconds of quickness every 32 seconds
      • Toss Elixir U = 8 seconds of quickness every 26 seconds

    Yes..here we go again, it seems you really don't get it....I made a thread making suggestions on what to nerfs and here you come again calling names left and right while thinking to be dunno what, you should realize that soulbeast-holosmith etc etc will be nerfed regardless of what anybody here say on the forum, the best you can do is to sit tight and plan your next build.

    I made a list of what should be nerfed, agreeing with it or not won't change much....anet has their own list, so stop getting so worked out and if you can't post anything in a less aggressive tone maybe you should just ignore the thread in the first place

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Poelala.2830Poelala.2830 Member ✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Poelala.2830 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Poelala.2830 said:
    I can't believe people still think War needs nerfs. It sucks. Remove damage on full counter? Lol.

    War doesn't suck....it is simply overshadowed by few other specs

    War sucks BECAUSE it is overshadowed by MOST specs.

    War problem is that they rely too much on passive gameplay and if that would be gone...it'd be easier to advocate for active sustain buffs like shout heal reduction in CD and casting time etc etc etc but right now it's hard to justify any direct buff to current war...we'd go straight back to PoF launch period with 2-3 spellbreakers per team , see the uncompetitive and unsportman like gw2 community will always flock to the easiest most effective build

    I can't help but remember that the majority of wars I used to meet in wvw or pvp didn't even need to look for their dodge button and that's the whole issue with warrriors in gw2, players got used to lazy passive gameplay and if you take that away now...all hell break loose ...but if you buff them then all hell would break loose either way,

    So no, wars don't suck ,they are overshadowed by few more OP specs in terms of sustain/dmg ratio; the class has well defined traits and developed weapon skills

    As a player who has fought dozens of wars and beaten all of them. All of them on more than 6 classes, at a plat 2, 3, and legend level, I'll definitely say war sucks. Theories and lack of experience don't match up to empirical evidence. I never asked for war buffs.

  • Arcaedus.7290Arcaedus.7290 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think I would be happy with holographic shockwave if they just reduced its vertical hitbox/cylinder height to something lower than 1800 range ;)

  • Bossun.2046Bossun.2046 Member ✭✭✭

    @calebswag.8265 said:
    i don't even think you have been in a single PvP match if you think photon 5 is what's wrong with holo. Mesmer is so bad (they autocorrected "poop") now. You want to know the 2 most broken specs right now? Holo and Soulbeast. you can ask anyone with half a brain that question and they will give the same response. You think mirage is so op? go on it and play it for yourself, and then come back with what you think the real problem is. Because it is NOT photon 5 or full counter omegalul.

    Is it player skill? :)

    sugoi monogatari oniichan

  • Mbelch.9028Mbelch.9028 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 10, 2018

    Here we go with another Arheundel thread. Per usual, this thread lacks understanding of balance, classes, mechanics and more. Thanks to Shadowpass for attempting to explain that..

    To address the two things I care about in this post:
    No, engineer isn't "broken." Holosmith is strong, and it has a really good place in the meta. It needs minor shaves, including a shave of range (both horizontal and vertical lol). Whack it with the nerf bat too far and say farewell to engineers for another six months to a year.

    No, warrior Full Counters shouldn't be six seconds. Full Counter is almost as bad a mechanic as auto endure pain or the PITA auto elixir S (which I think should be deleted from the game). It's not truly active because most people just throw it up there in AOE and it has a high percentage rate of success. So no, not even without damage. It gives too many benefits.

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Can't wait for the 2 engies (can't recall their names) to post how that's all false:

    • Engies hate elixirs because - spew nonsense number 1.
    • Holo shockwave is bad because - spew nonsense number 2.

    You rang? Kidding, I'm sure I'm not one of those people, because I've never made those two arguments. I do like to inform people that Holo is two strong nerfs away from being out of the meta, though. If it is /shaved/ correctly, it will be perfectly in line with other specs.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Dear forum users:
    ~ Please fasten your seatbelts before reading this thread, ty.

  • Master Ketsu.4569Master Ketsu.4569 Member ✭✭✭✭

    lul people still get memed by FC

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mbelch.9028 said:
    Here we go with another Arheundel thread. Per usual, this thread lacks understanding of balance, classes, mechanics and more. Thanks to Shadowpass for attempting to explain that..

    To address the two things I care about in this post:
    No, engineer isn't "broken." Holosmith is strong, and it has a really good place in the meta. It needs minor shaves, including a shave of range (both horizontal and vertical lol). Whack it with the nerf bat too far and say farewell to engineers for another six months to a year.

    No, warrior Full Counters shouldn't be six seconds. Full Counter is almost as bad a mechanic as auto endure pain or the PITA auto elixir S (which I think should be deleted from the game). It's not truly active because most people just throw it up there in AOE and it has a high percentage rate of success. So no, not even without damage. It gives too many benefits.

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Can't wait for the 2 engies (can't recall their names) to post how that's all false:

    • Engies hate elixirs because - spew nonsense number 1.
    • Holo shockwave is bad because - spew nonsense number 2.

    You rang? Kidding, I'm sure I'm not one of those people, because I've never made those two arguments. I do like to inform people that Holo is two strong nerfs away from being out of the meta, though. If it is /shaved/ correctly, it will be perfectly in line with other specs.

    Weren't you the one saying passive elixir s was bad, no pro ever used it, just to get Chaith saying it was actually good?

    The degenerate

  • Mbelch.9028Mbelch.9028 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Mbelch.9028 said:
    Here we go with another Arheundel thread. Per usual, this thread lacks understanding of balance, classes, mechanics and more. Thanks to Shadowpass for attempting to explain that..

    To address the two things I care about in this post:
    No, engineer isn't "broken." Holosmith is strong, and it has a really good place in the meta. It needs minor shaves, including a shave of range (both horizontal and vertical lol). Whack it with the nerf bat too far and say farewell to engineers for another six months to a year.

    No, warrior Full Counters shouldn't be six seconds. Full Counter is almost as bad a mechanic as auto endure pain or the PITA auto elixir S (which I think should be deleted from the game). It's not truly active because most people just throw it up there in AOE and it has a high percentage rate of success. So no, not even without damage. It gives too many benefits.

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Can't wait for the 2 engies (can't recall their names) to post how that's all false:

    • Engies hate elixirs because - spew nonsense number 1.
    • Holo shockwave is bad because - spew nonsense number 2.

    You rang? Kidding, I'm sure I'm not one of those people, because I've never made those two arguments. I do like to inform people that Holo is two strong nerfs away from being out of the meta, though. If it is /shaved/ correctly, it will be perfectly in line with other specs.

    Weren't you the one saying passive elixir s was bad, no pro ever used it, just to get Chaith saying it was actually good?

    Chaith said it so it must be true for all people everywhere, clearly. Yes, I said that and continue to believe it. I don’t like or use it, and I’ve had people comment in game saying “Why don’t you turn little like all the other engis?” Well, I don’t believe it’s a good trait for me, or a healthy trait for the game. I hope that helps it be a little more clear, at least, why I say it and feel that.

  • kipthelip.5802kipthelip.5802 Member ✭✭
    edited October 11, 2018

    The current popularity of Spell Breaker does not reflect its effectiveness. Its very effective in the right hands. It will win the vast majority of duels and be a total pain in the rear in any side node fight. And full counter hits for way more then 900 I mean come on now whoever said that that's base damage. Full Counter hits like a truck once you add in all mods. Its an over budget ability still. I'm not sure the op fix is the best one but it needs to be nerfed again. It does way too much for a low skill ability with a lowish cooldown.

  • Arioch.4810Arioch.4810 Member ✭✭✭

    As it stands now, only competitive and enjoyable play is seen in automated tournaments (rounds 2+) and that is not acceptable. Class balance or not.

    There's only one nerf that would help PvP mode, and it's nerf aimed at salaries of personel handling all things PvP related for Anet.
    Shave lets's say 20% off that check for starters, then add a simple did you have fun playing this match yes/no question for each PvP match participant at the end of the game. Less than 40% positive feedback shave some more $, 42-47% positive leave it as it is, 48% and more positive feedback increase said salaries by some %.

    4 months later you either have a good game mode contributing to the brand or a resignation on your table and opportunity for some fresh blood to take over.

  • The problems in combat and pvp wont be solved with nerfs or changes of single abilitys and traits some would consider OP.
    I was playing the game since early beta and almost only pvp and the problems that evolved are the same for some years now and they are of
    strucural nature and it´s not a problem of sinlge traits or abilitys.

    Also. There were people posting about this problems, often about the same thing, for years. I by myself started 3-4 Discusion about this in the past.
    Anet seems to just be ingoreing those and there were quiet some of those. The people who wrote them probably all left by now, like me, because
    there wasn´t to be expected any reaction of Anet from what we expirienced.

    I just posted a own Discusion about this problems. I just wanted to give it another try.
    Watch it out if you want.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/57860/the-fundamental-problem-in-pvp-combat?

  • Swing.6439Swing.6439 Member ✭✭✭

    Literally everything on your list can be avoided, kited, or stripped. I think you're just upset because you got memed.

  • TheDevice.2751TheDevice.2751 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 26, 2018

    @Bossun.2046 said:
    leave engi out of your nerf lists, thanks :)

    Why?

  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Can't wait for the 2 engies (can't recall their names) to post how that's all false:

    • Engies hate elixir s because - spew nonsense number 1.

    @Mbelch.9028 said: I'm sure I'm not one of those people, because I've never made (that) argument.

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said: Weren't you the one saying passive elixir s was bad, no pro ever used it, just to get Chaith saying it was actually good?

    @Mbelch.9028 said: Yes, I said that and continue to believe it. I don’t like or use it.

    So Lincolnbeard basically caught you lyin' about never arguing that Elixir S was bad, when you were. /popcorn

    @Mbelch.9028 You may believe that Self-Regulating defenses is worse than Comeback Cure or Backpack Regenerator varying from Engi to Engi, but in my experience, it's always more survivability than the alternatives, even in 1v1s - for you will definitely get ganked (+1'd) frequently.

    It's just a universal truth that Self-Regulating Defenses is the strongest PvP trait for Holosmith solely when compared with the other two dead options. It's actually much more successful than the alternatives at all skill levels. Even if you lack the mastery to remember Elixir S's ICD, or get stomps/resses during it, or are able to kite during it and heal safely after, it'll still be more useful then Comeback Cure or Backpack Regenerator if you are ever engaged by 2+ enemies - it simply trolls 2-5 people for 4 long seconds with no activation involved, and after the changes to Invulnerability, allows you to much more consistently survive and the trait will no longer work against you, as you ignore existing condition damage as well. When Self-Regulating Defenses is active, it's a key grace period to receive healing support, as well as giving the time needed to lose Photo Forge heat, and for your endurance to return as well.. it's very key and has many competitive applications.

    twitch.tv/chaithh
    Forum Lord Chaith

  • Mbelch.9028Mbelch.9028 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Can't wait for the 2 engies (can't recall their names) to post how that's all false:

    • Engies hate elixir s because - spew nonsense number 1.

    @Mbelch.9028 said: I'm sure I'm not one of those people, because I've never made (that) argument.

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said: Weren't you the one saying passive elixir s was bad, no pro ever used it, just to get Chaith saying it was actually good?

    @Mbelch.9028 said: Yes, I said that and continue to believe it. I don’t like or use it.

    So Lincolnbeard basically caught you lyin' about never arguing that Elixir S was bad, when you were. /popcorn

    @Mbelch.9028 You may believe that Self-Regulating defenses is worse than Comeback Cure or Backpack Regenerator varying from Engi to Engi, but in my experience, it's always more survivability than the alternatives, even in 1v1s - for you will definitely get ganked (+1'd) frequently.

    It's just a universal truth that Self-Regulating Defenses is the strongest PvP trait for Holosmith solely when compared with the other two dead options. It's actually much more successful than the alternatives at all skill levels. Even if you lack the mastery to remember Elixir S's ICD, or get stomps/resses during it, or are able to kite during it and heal safely after, it'll still be more useful then Comeback Cure or Backpack Regenerator if you are ever engaged by 2+ enemies - it simply trolls 2-5 people for 4 long seconds with no activation involved, and after the changes to Invulnerability, allows you to much more consistently survive and the trait will no longer work against you, as you ignore existing condition damage as well. When Self-Regulating Defenses is active, it's a key grace period to receive healing support, as well as giving the time needed to lose Photo Forge heat, and for your endurance to return as well.. it's very key and has many competitive applications.

    How's the popcorn? Can I get some? That post was long enough ago that I don't remember why I wrote it like that. Maybe I meant I don't spew nonsense? I dunno, but I do know I don't try to misrepresent what I feel, so let me articulate it below:

    I don't like Self-regulating defenses. I don't feel like it's a healthy trait for the game. I have said many times I believe it's a BAD trait, not because it is inferior, but because I believe auto procs aren't a healthy choice for the game to provide players. I can qualify that by saying I also think Auto Endure Pain, along with other passive traits should be removed, too.

    You are correct that it is the superior of the three options. I'll never argue that it isn't an obvious choice for a "money is on the line" situation, but I believe a lot of top-tier engineers choose not to use it when they don't have to. Granted: I do use this trait in those situations, like in ranked games. I wouldn't use it in a "money is on the line" duel.

    For me, it's "bad/suboptimal" also because I don't like having my channels interrupted, and I REALLY don't like not knowing when it is going to happen again. Part of that is my internal clock not memorizing it quite yet.

    So yeah. That's how I feel. I respect if you disagree. I don't respect players that just go "Reeee, this player who is popular said something so it must be true and I'll believe it without ever having my own thoughts/feelings/actual tests."

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Remove revive bonuses of all kinds from all classes.
    Some of theses classes are extremely hard to put down only for them to be instantly back up.

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

  • Band-aids won't fix the tactical combat, they need to blanket-nerf hard defenses, blanket nerf dps, and blanket nerf condi-spam (esp extra procs), blanket nerf cleanses, and blanket-nerf healing so that passive survivability matters and you don't survive by just spamming a long string of blocks/evades/invulns/sleath.

    After they do that, bring back amulets like cleric and soldier, and we can start having fun again.

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