I think GW could actually survive a GW3 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

I think GW could actually survive a GW3

Guild Wars is probably one of the very few MMORPGs that could survive financially by creating a new, modern version of itself. FFXIV is another, but they probably don't need to yet. WoW would by its sheer size. Other than that, I don't know.

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Comments

  • I guess I read the OP all wrong. I thought the OP was talking about how Guild Wars survived Guild Wars 2, but I am, obviously, wrong.
    Silly me.

  • maxwelgm.4315maxwelgm.4315 Member ✭✭✭

    Actually OP, the gaming market and companies in general are slowly but surely moving away from the MMO model. It has come to be that monetization is much easier and more profitable if you simply invest into multiple instances of 'hypercasual' games (https://blog.applovin.com/hyper-casual-mobile-gamings-newest-genre/) than if you spend a whole developing team to maintain a large, centralized project like WoW, FFXIV and GW2. Obviously they're not going to close shop on every MMO game just yet, but expect to see less of them coming out at all, and do not expect the ones that do arrive to look anything at all like they used to.

    To be honest, I'd say the relative success of GW2 is even a testament to the MMO genre being surpassed in many ways. This game's monetization system (whale-driven, as the article I linked itself calls) is not unlike your usual casual game, as well as daily rewards for logins and daily activities that you can choose from. We're already driven by short bursts of rewards and short packages of nicely separated episodes. The same logic applies to raids and fractals that are way shorter than dungeons when they came out, and arguably much more successful than dungeons as far as Anet's monetization plans are concerned. I guess I am not arguing against there being a GW3 proper, but it has to be said that it is not only probably very far from now, it will also likely frustrate whatever expectations you might have about it as of today. Not only GW2 has done away with grind, it has also set the tone for a very fast paced, enjoyable but ultimately superficial experience if they ever get to culminate their development into a GW3 engine.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 25, 2018

    Id like down the line to see a new instalment. As someone who played gw2 then went back on gw i think the whole mindset of "moving to a new isntallement is a nono" for w/e reason if someone is willing to buy an expansion then buying a new installment isnt that different.

    Plus anet puts goodies for ppl that played gw2 so moving on to gw3 u get to show it.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 25, 2018

    @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:
    I have no idea why people keep asking for gw3. The game would need years to make, which means this game would be content neglected during that development time while the new game gets all the attention.

    Iirc gw had lw running while they were developing gw2 plus they had hom which gave incentive and rewards for playing all bits of content in that game.

    And then you’d need to buy the new game and you’d be leaving all your account upgrades behind. All the skins, Achievements, bank tabs, ascended gear, character slots, etc, etc. with no guarantee the new game would be that much better.

    This aplied to gw1 as well but at least anet had created systems such as hom to give rewards and stuff for ppl that played and dedicated their time in that game.

    No gw3 for me, at least not until the game has aged enough that it’s better to move to another game than stay.

    Fair, and considering anet doesnt really make engine updates that might be sooner than later.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Faline.8795 said:
    Guild Wars is probably one of the very few MMORPGs that could survive financially by creating a new, modern version of itself.

    Please no. No "modern" contents. I like my fantasy RPGs with as much high fantasy content as possible. GW2 already has some aspects that I dislike because they are too futuristic...

    The op means "modern" as in the game's engine the visuals and the capabilities of the game systems wise. Not necessarily that it will be futuristic, who knows, gw2 might be based on the time of the guild wars before gw1.

  • asterix.9614asterix.9614 Member ✭✭✭

    As much as I love the Guild wars franchise I have no doubt a GW3 would be an end to the franchise altogether, it really would not survive.....

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The people who ask for GW3 haven't really invested and gotten the most out of GW2 anyways. Or they just love starting over constantly.

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    Gw3 will happen when the engine is too limited and performance drops too much. Until then, I expect gw2 to remain the focus.

    ever heard of an engine update

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  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:
    The people who ask for GW3 haven't really invested and gotten the most out of GW2 anyways. Or they just love starting over constantly.

    Even with some form of reward system depending on GW2 progress, "losing" my thousands of hours because the new and shiny game releases would make me really, really mad.

    Bite me.

  • @zealex.9410 said:

    @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:
    I have no idea why people keep asking for gw3. The game would need years to make, which means this game would be content neglected during that development time while the new game gets all the attention.

    Iirc gw had lw running while they were developing gw2 plus they had hom which gave incentive and rewards for playing all bits of content in that game.

    And then you’d need to buy the new game and you’d be leaving all your account upgrades behind. All the skins, Achievements, bank tabs, ascended gear, character slots, etc, etc. with no guarantee the new game would be that much better.

    This aplied to gw1 as well but at least anet had created systems such as hom to give rewards and stuff for ppl that played and dedicated their time in that game.

    No gw3 for me, at least not until the game has aged enough that it’s better to move to another game than stay.

    Fair, and considering anet doesnt really make engine updates that might be sooner than later.

    1) when they started working on gw2 they stopped making new expansions for gw. They released some new content but it wasn’t at the level of an expansion. The result was a long content drought while waiting for the new game. People kept themselves busy by doing old content to fill out the HoM but that’s not the same as the devs making regular large updates. If they were to start making gw3 then this game would also have a long, multi year content deficit while the devs developed the new game. It would put them millions of dollars in debt and they’d have to hope that the people drifted away during that time would come back plus more new people to even break even.

    2) how often do you see people using the rewards from the HoM? Except for a few titles, a weapon or two and maybe a ranger pet you don’t see people using them. So while it was nice to get them it doesn’t have a lot of carry over in terms of people using the rewards.

    I left a lot behind when I switched to this game. Characters I played for hours, outfits, account upgrades. It was worth it but that doesn’t mean I want to lose it all again when this game still has a lot going for it, and no one, including you, has given a good reason for a gw3 other than... what? You didn’t even bother to give a reason.

    Be careful what you ask for
    ANet might give it to you.

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  • If I recall correctly, I once heard that Arena Net claimed that they would never make a GW3 and that GW2 is the definitive version (unlike GW1 where that was never stated). However, this might still mean that over a significant amount of time (5+ years or so) when the game starts to really drop in player base numbers, Arena Net might consider finally developing GW3 or a new game. All in all, they simply stated that they will support GW2 until it is no longer profitable basically! This is great since like most people in this thread, I have loads to do!

    Proud branch of 'The Hortus'.

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @derd.6413 said:

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    Gw3 will happen when the engine is too limited and performance drops too much. Until then, I expect gw2 to remain the focus.

    ever heard of an engine update

    They are already extreme limited with what they can do to it, if you haven't noticed.

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Opopanax.1803 said:

    @derd.6413 said:

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    Gw3 will happen when the engine is too limited and performance drops too much. Until then, I expect gw2 to remain the focus.

    ever heard of an engine update

    They are already extreme limited with what they can do to it, if you haven't noticed.

    do you even know what an engine update is?

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  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    They are already extreme limited with what they can do to it, if you haven't noticed.

    There are cases of games of a previous console era that move on to a newer one using a new graphic engine. A game like Crysis couldn't run on the consoles of that time (xbox360/ps3) so they ported the entire original game to a new engine version that was capable of running on that console hardware. Other games are ported to upgrade the visuals like the Batman games from the previous era being ported to the current gen consoles going from unreal engine 3 to unreal engine 4. It's not impossible, nor unheard of, to port an entire game from one engine to another, either to solve performance issues or to upgrade the visuals (we are in the first category)

    The Crysis case in particular is very relevant to our situation because the engine used in that game wasn't threaded well, meaning it was using a single core (same as the GW engine), but their next engine supported threading, splitting the load on multiple cores. They ported the entire first game to the new engine version (to run on consoles), so maybe Arenanet could do the same, make a new, better threaded engine, then port their entire game to it. The assets, models, textures, sound, music, particles, materials, even lights and map data, can be the exact same, so porting it wouldn't be as time consuming as someone might imagine.

  • @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    They are already extreme limited with what they can do to it, if you haven't noticed.

    There are cases of games of a previous console era that move on to a newer one using a new graphic engine. A game like Crysis couldn't run on the consoles of that time (xbox360/ps3) so they ported the entire original game to a new engine version that was capable of running on that console hardware. Other games are ported to upgrade the visuals like the Batman games from the previous era being ported to the current gen consoles going from unreal engine 3 to unreal engine 4. It's not impossible, nor unheard of, to port an entire game from one engine to another, either to solve performance issues or to upgrade the visuals (we are in the first category)

    The Crysis case in particular is very relevant to our situation because the engine used in that game wasn't threaded well, meaning it was using a single core (same as the GW engine), but their next engine supported threading, splitting the load on multiple cores. They ported the entire first game to the new engine version (to run on consoles), so maybe Arenanet could do the same, make a new, better threaded engine, then port their entire game to it. The assets, models, textures, sound, music, particles, materials, even lights and map data, can be the exact same, so porting it wouldn't be as time consuming as someone might imagine.

    to add more into that point - also EvE online have moved to a completely new engine at some point and I have heard rumours WoW did as well.

    the only issue I could see in here is big load of work needed for such a venture and not sacrificing content releases for mechanical upgrades like this - prime example to show up perfectly what I am speaking here off is how long it takes them to develop world restructuring for wvw - AN may simply not have enought manpower at hand to complete such overhaul in any sensible way.
    (disclaimer: I don't mean in here only process of porting but also process of developping the new engine in the background in the first place)

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    They are already extreme limited with what they can do to it, if you haven't noticed.

    There are cases of games of a previous console era that move on to a newer one using a new graphic engine. A game like Crysis couldn't run on the consoles of that time (xbox360/ps3) so they ported the entire original game to a new engine version that was capable of running on that console hardware. Other games are ported to upgrade the visuals like the Batman games from the previous era being ported to the current gen consoles going from unreal engine 3 to unreal engine 4. It's not impossible, nor unheard of, to port an entire game from one engine to another, either to solve performance issues or to upgrade the visuals (we are in the first category)

    The Crysis case in particular is very relevant to our situation because the engine used in that game wasn't threaded well, meaning it was using a single core (same as the GW engine), but their next engine supported threading, splitting the load on multiple cores. They ported the entire first game to the new engine version (to run on consoles), so maybe Arenanet could do the same, make a new, better threaded engine, then port their entire game to it. The assets, models, textures, sound, music, particles, materials, even lights and map data, can be the exact same, so porting it wouldn't be as time consuming as someone might imagine.

    to add more into that point - also EvE online have moved to a completely new engine at some point and I have heard rumours WoW did as well.

    the only issue I could see in here is big load of work needed for such a venture and not sacrificing content releases for mechanical upgrades like this - prime example to show up perfectly what I am speaking here off is how long it takes them to develop world restructuring for wvw - AN may simply not have enought manpower at hand to complete such overhaul in any sensible way.
    (disclaimer: I don't mean in here only process of porting but also process of developping the new engine in the background in the first place)

    that's not really what we're arguing here. it's that if the engine becomes to outdated that anet will probably choose to update the engine instead of making GW3

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  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @derd.6413 said:
    that's not really what we're arguing here. it's that if the engine becomes to outdated that anet will probably choose to update the engine instead of making GW3

    And we gave examples of game engines being updated. The problem is the engine is already outdated, or rather it was outdated on release day, the core of the engine at least, because there have been many improvements over the years by the engine team (new shaders, new materials, new effects, new post processing and so on). But it is still a very single threaded engine, there are tons of examples of games moving to multi-threaded versions, even entire games being ported to those new versions. This would be a much better option than making GW3

  • Gehenna.3625Gehenna.3625 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    that's not really what we're arguing here. it's that if the engine becomes to outdated that anet will probably choose to update the engine instead of making GW3

    And we gave examples of game engines being updated. The problem is the engine is already outdated, or rather it was outdated on release day, the core of the engine at least, because there have been many improvements over the years by the engine team (new shaders, new materials, new effects, new post processing and so on). But it is still a very single threaded engine, there are tons of examples of games moving to multi-threaded versions, even entire games being ported to those new versions. This would be a much better option than making GW3

    That makes a lot more sense. However it depends also on the continuous popularity of GW2. There may be a point that they will want to start fresh. The interesting thing is though that GW1 is still being played and is linked to GW2. The same could be the case of a GW3. However, I personally would prefer that rather than a GW3 they make a new IP that is Sci-Fi.

    "In my experience, if you can't say what you mean, you can never mean what you say. The details are everything." ~ Minister Durano

  • @derd.6413 said:
    that's not really what we're arguing here. it's that if the engine becomes to outdated that anet will probably choose to update the engine instead of making GW3

    well the issue tho is that we have already precedence for a game from AN where they have felt to restricted by game engine - they created new game.

    sure they didn't have promise of no sequels to GW running around the web back then but the cost of developping whole new engine in any sensible time could be so high that they may have consider just slapping new game onto it all together.

    engine update can be done, was done by few studios, but I do not share your adamant belief that this will be first thing AN will do when the moment will come when they will decide engine is too old to continue adding onto it.

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 25, 2018

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    that's not really what we're arguing here. it's that if the engine becomes to outdated that anet will probably choose to update the engine instead of making GW3

    well the issue tho is that we have already precedence for a game from AN where they have felt to restricted by game engine - they created new game.

    yeah no, that's just wrong

    The team realised that they would not be able to do everything they wanted within the constraints of the scope that they had previously defined for campaigns and the limited amount of time available to them, and at the behest of Jeff Strain, found themselves discussing how the continued addition of features and content in stand-alone campaigns was leading to more bloated tutorials and difficulty in balancing the ever-increasing number of skills. Eventually, the discussion evolved into a blueprint for an entirely new game.

    it was scope and time restraints of gw1 campaignes together with bloat and balancing issues that caused anet to shift to gw2 not engine problems.

    also gw2 uses a modified gw1 engine

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  • Gehenna.3625Gehenna.3625 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @derd.6413 said:

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    that's not really what we're arguing here. it's that if the engine becomes to outdated that anet will probably choose to update the engine instead of making GW3

    well the issue tho is that we have already precedence for a game from AN where they have felt to restricted by game engine - they created new game.

    yeah no, that's just wrong

    The team realised that they would not be able to do everything they wanted within the constraints of the scope that they had previously defined for campaigns and the limited amount of time available to them, and at the behest of Jeff Strain, found themselves discussing how the continued addition of features and content in stand-alone campaigns was leading to more bloated tutorials and difficulty in balancing the ever-increasing number of skills. Eventually, the discussion evolved into a blueprint for an entirely new game.

    it was scope and time restraints of gw1 campaignes together with bloat and balancing issues that caused anet to shift to gw2 not engine problems.

    also gw2 uses a modified gw1 engine

    That's mostly true. ArenaNet did comment that they wanted to do things that the game/engine couldn't do and that was given as one of the reasons why they decided to move to making a new game entirely rather than expanding GW1 more. The game have essentially 2D maps was one of those limitations. You perhaps remember that you could do /jump in your place but you couldn't actually jump on top of anything. That was one of the limitations that was mentioned. GW2 does use a modified GW1 engine but I think it's more fair to say it's heavily modified... and as such it enables things like vertical movement that were impossible in GW1.

    "In my experience, if you can't say what you mean, you can never mean what you say. The details are everything." ~ Minister Durano

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 25, 2018

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:
    I have no idea why people keep asking for gw3. The game would need years to make, which means this game would be content neglected during that development time while the new game gets all the attention.

    Iirc gw had lw running while they were developing gw2 plus they had hom which gave incentive and rewards for playing all bits of content in that game.

    Three small episodes over the course of five years. Imagine the QQ if ANet released one episode of living story each year and a half, I mean people already complain if an episode gets delayed.

    @derd.6413 said:

    ... and difficulty in balancing the ever-increasing number of skills. Eventually, the discussion evolved into a blueprint for an entirely new game.

    Which is pretty funny considering that GW has better balance than GW2 ever had.

    OT - ANet releasing GW3 would be shoting themselves on the foot. People fell for GW2 but won't fall for another.
    No ones wants to play an mmo that has a death sentence attached to it in the scope that after X years of GW3 no one stops ANet from relasing GW4 and so on.
    ANet releasing a new game will be either a new franchise or some sort of GW spinoff.

    The degenerate

  • Lord Trejgon.2809Lord Trejgon.2809 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 25, 2018

    @derd.6413 said:

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    that's not really what we're arguing here. it's that if the engine becomes to outdated that anet will probably choose to update the engine instead of making GW3

    well the issue tho is that we have already precedence for a game from AN where they have felt to restricted by game engine - they created new game.

    yeah no, that's just wrong

    The team realised that they would not be able to do everything they wanted within the constraints of the scope that they had previously defined for campaigns and the limited amount of time available to them, and at the behest of Jeff Strain, found themselves discussing how the continued addition of features and content in stand-alone campaigns was leading to more bloated tutorials and difficulty in balancing the ever-increasing number of skills. Eventually, the discussion evolved into a blueprint for an entirely new game.

    it was scope and time restraints of gw1 campaignes together with bloat and balancing issues that caused anet to shift to gw2 not engine problems.

    to quote: "we were brainstorming ideas for new campaign, and we realised we want to do so many things that we couldn't do within current game's constraints - so we decided to make new game out of it"

    maybe not exacly letter-to-letter quote since I'm going off memory in here but that's one of AN devs answer from prelaunch period when asked "why GW2?"

    yes bloated balancing issues, scoping and time restraints of gw1 campaigns were factors, but the thing that tipped scale after all were ideas for features that they couldn't implement into gw1 engine.

    edit:

    also gw2 uses a modified gw1 engine

    updated GW1 engine, perhaps but it fits into precedence parameters - they needed to update engine to fit ideas in, so instead of just porting old game onto new engine, they've built new game ontop of new engine they developped anyway.

    so sorry I'm still not sure AN would not move to the next title again if they have hit the wall again of having "awesome ideas" that they simply couldn't fit into current game engine.

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 25, 2018

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

    @derd.6413 said:

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    that's not really what we're arguing here. it's that if the engine becomes to outdated that anet will probably choose to update the engine instead of making GW3

    well the issue tho is that we have already precedence for a game from AN where they have felt to restricted by game engine - they created new game.

    yeah no, that's just wrong

    The team realised that they would not be able to do everything they wanted within the constraints of the scope that they had previously defined for campaigns and the limited amount of time available to them, and at the behest of Jeff Strain, found themselves discussing how the continued addition of features and content in stand-alone campaigns was leading to more bloated tutorials and difficulty in balancing the ever-increasing number of skills. Eventually, the discussion evolved into a blueprint for an entirely new game.

    it was scope and time restraints of gw1 campaignes together with bloat and balancing issues that caused anet to shift to gw2 not engine problems.

    to quote: "we were brainstorming ideas for new campaign, and we realised we want to do so many things that we couldn't do within current game's constraints - so we decided to make new game out of it"

    maybe not exacly letter-to-letter quote since I'm going off memory in here but that's one of AN devs answer from prelaunch period when asked "why GW2?"

    yes bloated balancing issues, scoping and time restraints of gw1 campaigns were factors, but the thing that tipped scale after all were ideas for features that they couldn't implement into gw1 engine.

    a "game's constraints" doesn't automaticly mean engine constraints
    it could also refere to constraints with level design or the aforementioned scoping/time issues

    edit:

    also gw2 uses a modified gw1 engine

    updated GW1 engine, perhaps but it fits into precedence parameters - they needed to update engine to fit ideas in, so instead of just porting old game onto new engine, they've built new game ontop of new engine they developped anyway.

    nobody is saying we need a new engine for new features, ppl are asking for a new engine because the game runs like crud on alot of PCs

    also a one time event isn't a precidence especially when they've stated multiple times they don't want to repeat it

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  • I don't mind GW3 as long as it's a First Person Shooters that takes place 1,000 years later after the events of GW2.

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @derd.6413 said:

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    They are already extreme limited with what they can do to it, if you haven't noticed.

    There are cases of games of a previous console era that move on to a newer one using a new graphic engine. A game like Crysis couldn't run on the consoles of that time (xbox360/ps3) so they ported the entire original game to a new engine version that was capable of running on that console hardware. Other games are ported to upgrade the visuals like the Batman games from the previous era being ported to the current gen consoles going from unreal engine 3 to unreal engine 4. It's not impossible, nor unheard of, to port an entire game from one engine to another, either to solve performance issues or to upgrade the visuals (we are in the first category)

    The Crysis case in particular is very relevant to our situation because the engine used in that game wasn't threaded well, meaning it was using a single core (same as the GW engine), but their next engine supported threading, splitting the load on multiple cores. They ported the entire first game to the new engine version (to run on consoles), so maybe Arenanet could do the same, make a new, better threaded engine, then port their entire game to it. The assets, models, textures, sound, music, particles, materials, even lights and map data, can be the exact same, so porting it wouldn't be as time consuming as someone might imagine.

    to add more into that point - also EvE online have moved to a completely new engine at some point and I have heard rumours WoW did as well.

    the only issue I could see in here is big load of work needed for such a venture and not sacrificing content releases for mechanical upgrades like this - prime example to show up perfectly what I am speaking here off is how long it takes them to develop world restructuring for wvw - AN may simply not have enought manpower at hand to complete such overhaul in any sensible way.
    (disclaimer: I don't mean in here only process of porting but also process of developping the new engine in the background in the first place)

    that's not really what we're arguing here. it's that if the engine becomes to outdated that anet will probably choose to update the engine instead of making GW3

    Yet you have given no reason why they would.

    What does anet gain from updating the engine? A stable game with more function for a ton of work. No new draw to the game or any potential new players. It would be minimal attraction at best.

    No, if they are going to go through the monumental effort of redoing the engine, it will be at a point where they also develop a new game for sales. This would have far more return on investment.

    That said, I do not think they will do either anytime soon. It's a pipe dream to think they have enough time or money to update the engine now.

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Opopanax.1803 said:

    @derd.6413 said:

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    They are already extreme limited with what they can do to it, if you haven't noticed.

    There are cases of games of a previous console era that move on to a newer one using a new graphic engine. A game like Crysis couldn't run on the consoles of that time (xbox360/ps3) so they ported the entire original game to a new engine version that was capable of running on that console hardware. Other games are ported to upgrade the visuals like the Batman games from the previous era being ported to the current gen consoles going from unreal engine 3 to unreal engine 4. It's not impossible, nor unheard of, to port an entire game from one engine to another, either to solve performance issues or to upgrade the visuals (we are in the first category)

    The Crysis case in particular is very relevant to our situation because the engine used in that game wasn't threaded well, meaning it was using a single core (same as the GW engine), but their next engine supported threading, splitting the load on multiple cores. They ported the entire first game to the new engine version (to run on consoles), so maybe Arenanet could do the same, make a new, better threaded engine, then port their entire game to it. The assets, models, textures, sound, music, particles, materials, even lights and map data, can be the exact same, so porting it wouldn't be as time consuming as someone might imagine.

    to add more into that point - also EvE online have moved to a completely new engine at some point and I have heard rumours WoW did as well.

    the only issue I could see in here is big load of work needed for such a venture and not sacrificing content releases for mechanical upgrades like this - prime example to show up perfectly what I am speaking here off is how long it takes them to develop world restructuring for wvw - AN may simply not have enought manpower at hand to complete such overhaul in any sensible way.
    (disclaimer: I don't mean in here only process of porting but also process of developping the new engine in the background in the first place)

    that's not really what we're arguing here. it's that if the engine becomes to outdated that anet will probably choose to update the engine instead of making GW3

    Yet you have given no reason why they would.

    What does anet gain from updating the engine? A stable game with more function for a ton of work. No new draw to the game or any potential new players. It would be minimal attraction at best.

    No, if they are going to go through the monumental effort of redoing the engine, it will be at a point where they also develop a new game for sales. This would have far more return on investment.

    That said, I do not think they will do either anytime soon. It's a pipe dream to think they have enough time or money to update the engine now.

    no it wouldn't because designing a new mmo would be more effort and money then an engine update plus anet would get a bad rep because it resets your progress every couple of years whenever the engine get's old. and whatever game you're imagining i can guess already is as likely as me eating the entire Empire State Building in an hour

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • sorudo.9054sorudo.9054 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Opopanax.1803 said:

    @derd.6413 said:

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    They are already extreme limited with what they can do to it, if you haven't noticed.

    There are cases of games of a previous console era that move on to a newer one using a new graphic engine. A game like Crysis couldn't run on the consoles of that time (xbox360/ps3) so they ported the entire original game to a new engine version that was capable of running on that console hardware. Other games are ported to upgrade the visuals like the Batman games from the previous era being ported to the current gen consoles going from unreal engine 3 to unreal engine 4. It's not impossible, nor unheard of, to port an entire game from one engine to another, either to solve performance issues or to upgrade the visuals (we are in the first category)

    The Crysis case in particular is very relevant to our situation because the engine used in that game wasn't threaded well, meaning it was using a single core (same as the GW engine), but their next engine supported threading, splitting the load on multiple cores. They ported the entire first game to the new engine version (to run on consoles), so maybe Arenanet could do the same, make a new, better threaded engine, then port their entire game to it. The assets, models, textures, sound, music, particles, materials, even lights and map data, can be the exact same, so porting it wouldn't be as time consuming as someone might imagine.

    to add more into that point - also EvE online have moved to a completely new engine at some point and I have heard rumours WoW did as well.

    the only issue I could see in here is big load of work needed for such a venture and not sacrificing content releases for mechanical upgrades like this - prime example to show up perfectly what I am speaking here off is how long it takes them to develop world restructuring for wvw - AN may simply not have enought manpower at hand to complete such overhaul in any sensible way.
    (disclaimer: I don't mean in here only process of porting but also process of developping the new engine in the background in the first place)

    that's not really what we're arguing here. it's that if the engine becomes to outdated that anet will probably choose to update the engine instead of making GW3

    Yet you have given no reason why they would.

    What does anet gain from updating the engine? A stable game with more function for a ton of work. No new draw to the game or any potential new players. It would be minimal attraction at best.

    No, if they are going to go through the monumental effort of redoing the engine, it will be at a point where they also develop a new game for sales. This would have far more return on investment.

    That said, I do not think they will do either anytime soon. It's a pipe dream to think they have enough time or money to update the engine now.

    updating, or rather, switch engine would allow them to add stuff they would never be able to do with the current engine.
    like the saying goes, no pain no gain.

  • Gehenna.3625Gehenna.3625 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @derd.6413 said:

    @Opopanax.1803 said:

    @derd.6413 said:

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    They are already extreme limited with what they can do to it, if you haven't noticed.

    There are cases of games of a previous console era that move on to a newer one using a new graphic engine. A game like Crysis couldn't run on the consoles of that time (xbox360/ps3) so they ported the entire original game to a new engine version that was capable of running on that console hardware. Other games are ported to upgrade the visuals like the Batman games from the previous era being ported to the current gen consoles going from unreal engine 3 to unreal engine 4. It's not impossible, nor unheard of, to port an entire game from one engine to another, either to solve performance issues or to upgrade the visuals (we are in the first category)

    The Crysis case in particular is very relevant to our situation because the engine used in that game wasn't threaded well, meaning it was using a single core (same as the GW engine), but their next engine supported threading, splitting the load on multiple cores. They ported the entire first game to the new engine version (to run on consoles), so maybe Arenanet could do the same, make a new, better threaded engine, then port their entire game to it. The assets, models, textures, sound, music, particles, materials, even lights and map data, can be the exact same, so porting it wouldn't be as time consuming as someone might imagine.

    to add more into that point - also EvE online have moved to a completely new engine at some point and I have heard rumours WoW did as well.

    the only issue I could see in here is big load of work needed for such a venture and not sacrificing content releases for mechanical upgrades like this - prime example to show up perfectly what I am speaking here off is how long it takes them to develop world restructuring for wvw - AN may simply not have enought manpower at hand to complete such overhaul in any sensible way.
    (disclaimer: I don't mean in here only process of porting but also process of developping the new engine in the background in the first place)

    that's not really what we're arguing here. it's that if the engine becomes to outdated that anet will probably choose to update the engine instead of making GW3

    Yet you have given no reason why they would.

    What does anet gain from updating the engine? A stable game with more function for a ton of work. No new draw to the game or any potential new players. It would be minimal attraction at best.

    No, if they are going to go through the monumental effort of redoing the engine, it will be at a point where they also develop a new game for sales. This would have far more return on investment.

    That said, I do not think they will do either anytime soon. It's a pipe dream to think they have enough time or money to update the engine now.

    no it wouldn't because designing a new mmo would be more effort and money then an engine update plus anet would get a bad rep because it resets your progress every couple of years whenever the engine get's old. and whatever game you're imagining i can guess already is as likely as me eating the entire Empire State Building in an hour

    Well that's rather an exaggeration. GW2 came out 7 years after GW1 and GW2 has passed the 6 year mark already. That hardly qualifies as "every couple of years".

    And although a completely new game would be a larger investment, it can also bring in a lot more money. It's not just the cost that matters but what you expect to earn with that investment. So if you invest 5 million and the gain in revenue is 10 million but a new game costing maybe 25 million that brings in 100 million more is definitely worth doing. You need to see it as an investment, not cost and NcSoft has a part to play there as well. The problem is that it's questionable that an improved engine will bring in a lot more revenue. I can see people playing more but I don't see people spending a whole lot more.

    Now your exaggeration aside, they do of course have to mind the when and I think that IF there will be a GW3 it won't be here for another few years at least. So if that scenario would happen, I would think it's not coming out before this game probably turns 8-10 years old.

    "In my experience, if you can't say what you mean, you can never mean what you say. The details are everything." ~ Minister Durano

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sorudo.9054 said:

    @Opopanax.1803 said:

    @derd.6413 said:

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    They are already extreme limited with what they can do to it, if you haven't noticed.

    There are cases of games of a previous console era that move on to a newer one using a new graphic engine. A game like Crysis couldn't run on the consoles of that time (xbox360/ps3) so they ported the entire original game to a new engine version that was capable of running on that console hardware. Other games are ported to upgrade the visuals like the Batman games from the previous era being ported to the current gen consoles going from unreal engine 3 to unreal engine 4. It's not impossible, nor unheard of, to port an entire game from one engine to another, either to solve performance issues or to upgrade the visuals (we are in the first category)

    The Crysis case in particular is very relevant to our situation because the engine used in that game wasn't threaded well, meaning it was using a single core (same as the GW engine), but their next engine supported threading, splitting the load on multiple cores. They ported the entire first game to the new engine version (to run on consoles), so maybe Arenanet could do the same, make a new, better threaded engine, then port their entire game to it. The assets, models, textures, sound, music, particles, materials, even lights and map data, can be the exact same, so porting it wouldn't be as time consuming as someone might imagine.

    to add more into that point - also EvE online have moved to a completely new engine at some point and I have heard rumours WoW did as well.

    the only issue I could see in here is big load of work needed for such a venture and not sacrificing content releases for mechanical upgrades like this - prime example to show up perfectly what I am speaking here off is how long it takes them to develop world restructuring for wvw - AN may simply not have enought manpower at hand to complete such overhaul in any sensible way.
    (disclaimer: I don't mean in here only process of porting but also process of developping the new engine in the background in the first place)

    that's not really what we're arguing here. it's that if the engine becomes to outdated that anet will probably choose to update the engine instead of making GW3

    Yet you have given no reason why they would.

    What does anet gain from updating the engine? A stable game with more function for a ton of work. No new draw to the game or any potential new players. It would be minimal attraction at best.

    No, if they are going to go through the monumental effort of redoing the engine, it will be at a point where they also develop a new game for sales. This would have far more return on investment.

    That said, I do not think they will do either anytime soon. It's a pipe dream to think they have enough time or money to update the engine now.

    updating, or rather, switch engine would allow them to add stuff they would never be able to do with the current engine.
    like the saying goes, no pain no gain.

    Amd when you look at what they are doing right now, there isn't much they can't do gameplay wise. The engine upgrades would be for processing and performance, which is where the game is hurting now.

    Performance improvements are not going to bring in new players like a new game would.

  • Game of Bones.8975Game of Bones.8975 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I would play GW3 only if my GW2 characters directly transferred to the new game. I have too much invested in them currently to just cut bait and run. (not financially, by time, equipment, and achievements)

    Not transferring to GW2 was a bit hard, I had all the prestige armors, Envoy scythe, GWAMM, but I was ready for the update.

    I will be hard pressed to buy GW3. I may give up online gaming at that point.

    "That's what" -- She

  • JustTrogdor.7892JustTrogdor.7892 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 25, 2018

    I seriously doubt there will ever be a GW3. At least not as a computer MMO. The money these days is in mobile games that can rake in tons of money through impulse cash shop items paid via one quick click on a phone or tablet. Even the latest trend, battle royal, and Fortnite is advertising on TV as a mobile game these days because it is cash shop driven. More and more people are playing games on phones and tablets so they can play anywhere any time. That's where the money is and why you see all those expensive commercials on TV for mobile games. Also look at NCSoft's earning reports, Anet's parent company, their mobile game sales are leaps and bounds above all their other holdings. So if there is ever going to be a GW3 it will probably be some mobile game with a heavy cash shop. I don't recall exactly but I think I have seen references at times to ANet hiring mobile developers. People that enjoy playing MMOs on an actual computer with full screen, keyboard and mouse will probably have slim pickings in the next 5 years or so.

  • videoboy.4162videoboy.4162 Member ✭✭✭

    I wonder if they could go a different route than expected, and make Guild Wars 3 by moving Guild Wars 2 onto a new engine. After getting that engine ready, they could have all our progress and such from Guild Wars 2, but continue the story as Guild Wars 3.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    GW2 plays very differently from GW1 - I didn't care much for GW1 at all, but I fell in love with GW2 pretty quickly. I would worry that in a GW3 they might make drastic changes, which is why I hope they just keep adding on to Gw2.

  • @derd.6413 said:
    a "game's constraints" doesn't automaticly mean engine constraints
    it could also refere to constraints with level design or the aforementioned scoping/time issues

    yeah, especially when they were talking in context of new mechanics, they couldn't make.....
    (considering what we've got in gw2 I'll take a guess that jumping/dodging could be on a list)

    nobody is saying we need a new engine for new features, ppl are asking for a new engine because the game runs like crud on alot of PCs

    yes, for most of playerbase optimalisation (or rather lack of thereoff) is most important factor when asking for new game engine - but - considering AN history so far, I can only see them consider this either when they hit a wall with current engine not allowing them to implement new idea (as GW1 did) or something external forces them to.
    (or maybe if they have seen potential to sell it well, some sort of GW2 Remastered kind of deal with big promo to pull more people in perhaps?)

    also a one time event isn't a precidence especially when they've stated multiple times they don't want to repeat it

    one time event is precedence, even if entity involved claims to have no wish of repeating the experience.

    so we have one example of precedence for them developping new game after engine of previous one starts to hamper their creativity, and no precedence for them switching up engine under currently existing game. So excuse me, but I'll stay sceptical on that one.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:
    I have no idea why people keep asking for gw3. The game would need years to make, which means this game would be content neglected during that development time while the new game gets all the attention.

    Iirc gw had lw running while they were developing gw2 plus they had hom which gave incentive and rewards for playing all bits of content in that game.

    Three small episodes over the course of five years. Imagine the QQ if ANet released one episode of living story each year and a half, I mean people already complain if an episode gets delayed.

    The are already doing that, lw provide live content while a big part of the company is developing the expansions. Basically the same thing but replace expac with a new mmo. The amount of content is w/e we wont knoe how much content we will get until we get it.

    @derd.6413 said:

    ... and difficulty in balancing the ever-increasing number of skills. Eventually, the discussion evolved into a blueprint for an entirely new game.

    Which is pretty funny considering that GW has better balance than GW2 ever had.

    OT - ANet releasing GW3 would be shoting themselves on the foot. People fell for GW2 but won't fall for another.

    "fell for gw2" what do you mean? Gw2 is more succesful than gw1 was its been supported for 6 years and counting. That gives certainty to buyers that placing money in a gw3 wont cheat you out if your game in a year or 2 like certain EA games.

    No ones wants to play an mmo that has a death sentence attached to it in the scope that after X years of GW3 no one stops ANet from relasing GW4 and so on.
    ANet releasing a new game will be either a new franchise or some sort of GW spinoff.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Game of Bones.8975 said:
    I would play GW3 only if my GW2 characters directly transferred to the new game. I have too much invested in them currently to just cut bait and run. (not financially, by time, equipment, and achievements)

    Not transferring to GW2 was a bit hard, I had all the prestige armors, Envoy scythe, GWAMM, but I was ready for the update.

    I will be hard pressed to buy GW3. I may give up online gaming at that point.

    What made you ready for the udpate then that wont make you ready for a gw3?

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 25, 2018

    @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:
    I have no idea why people keep asking for gw3. The game would need years to make, which means this game would be content neglected during that development time while the new game gets all the attention.

    Iirc gw had lw running while they were developing gw2 plus they had hom which gave incentive and rewards for playing all bits of content in that game.

    And then you’d need to buy the new game and you’d be leaving all your account upgrades behind. All the skins, Achievements, bank tabs, ascended gear, character slots, etc, etc. with no guarantee the new game would be that much better.

    This aplied to gw1 as well but at least anet had created systems such as hom to give rewards and stuff for ppl that played and dedicated their time in that game.

    No gw3 for me, at least not until the game has aged enough that it’s better to move to another game than stay.

    Fair, and considering anet doesnt really make engine updates that might be sooner than later.

    1) when they started working on gw2 they stopped making new expansions for gw. They released some new content but it wasn’t at the level of an expansion. The result was a long content drought while waiting for the new game. People kept themselves busy by doing old content to fill out the HoM but that’s not the same as the devs making regular large updates. If they were to start making gw3 then this game would also have a long, multi year content deficit while the devs developed the new game. It would put them millions of dollars in debt and they’d have to hope that the people drifted away during that time would come back plus more new people to even break even.

    2) how often do you see people using the rewards from the HoM? Except for a few titles, a weapon or two and maybe a ranger pet you don’t see people using them. So while it was nice to get them it doesn’t have a lot of carry over in terms of people using the rewards.

    I left a lot behind when I switched to this game. Characters I played for hours, outfits, account upgrades. It was worth it but that doesn’t mean I want to lose it all again when this game still has a lot going for it, and no one, including you, has given a good reason for a gw3 other than... what? You didn’t even bother to give a reason.

    We arleardy dont get exla sion content every 2 years, mmos usually take around 3-4 years to make and if they started working after an expansions with lw comming in the meantime the "content drought" wouldnt be as extreme as the post hot one.

    The main reason is that the game will and is getting old and has an outdated engine, plus theres room for many good systems and changes that simply dont work now or we are too deep in the game to change.

    Plus i never said gw3 should come in a year. Im not quite ready for a gw3 either but a gw3 should happen or radical system and engine updates changes to gw2 (and i think at this point the former is cheaper/easier).

  • Just a flesh wound.3589Just a flesh wound.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 25, 2018

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:
    I have no idea why people keep asking for gw3. The game would need years to make, which means this game would be content neglected during that development time while the new game gets all the attention.

    Iirc gw had lw running while they were developing gw2 plus they had hom which gave incentive and rewards for playing all bits of content in that game.

    And then you’d need to buy the new game and you’d be leaving all your account upgrades behind. All the skins, Achievements, bank tabs, ascended gear, character slots, etc, etc. with no guarantee the new game would be that much better.

    This aplied to gw1 as well but at least anet had created systems such as hom to give rewards and stuff for ppl that played and dedicated their time in that game.

    No gw3 for me, at least not until the game has aged enough that it’s better to move to another game than stay.

    Fair, and considering anet doesnt really make engine updates that might be sooner than later.

    1) when they started working on gw2 they stopped making new expansions for gw. They released some new content but it wasn’t at the level of an expansion. The result was a long content drought while waiting for the new game. People kept themselves busy by doing old content to fill out the HoM but that’s not the same as the devs making regular large updates. If they were to start making gw3 then this game would also have a long, multi year content deficit while the devs developed the new game. It would put them millions of dollars in debt and they’d have to hope that the people drifted away during that time would come back plus more new people to even break even.

    2) how often do you see people using the rewards from the HoM? Except for a few titles, a weapon or two and maybe a ranger pet you don’t see people using them. So while it was nice to get them it doesn’t have a lot of carry over in terms of people using the rewards.

    I left a lot behind when I switched to this game. Characters I played for hours, outfits, account upgrades. It was worth it but that doesn’t mean I want to lose it all again when this game still has a lot going for it, and no one, including you, has given a good reason for a gw3 other than... what? You didn’t even bother to give a reason.

    We arleardy dont get exla sion content every 2 years, mmos usually take around 3-4 years to make and if they started working after an expansions with lw comming in the meantime the "content drought" wouldnt be as extreme as the post hot one.

    The main reason is that the game will and is getting old and has an outdated engine, plus theres room for many good systems and changes that simply dont work now or we are too deep in the game to change.

    Plus i never said gw3 should come in a year. Im not quite ready for a gw3 either but a gw3 should happen or radical system and engine updates changes to gw2 (and i think at this point the former is cheaper/easier).

    They’d spend millions of dollars with no guarantee that the new game would be as successful as this one. Just look at the games that have launched in the last few years that have stumbled or even failed after launch.

    There’s an old saying, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush (which means for those not native English speakers, a sure thing is worth twice as much as hopeful dreams). They’ve got a sure thing here and abandoning it to spend millions on a hopeful dream is not rational behavior, especially when they haven’t reached the limits of the game they have right now.

    Be careful what you ask for
    ANet might give it to you.

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  • Game of Bones.8975Game of Bones.8975 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Game of Bones.8975 said:
    I would play GW3 only if my GW2 characters directly transferred to the new game. I have too much invested in them currently to just cut bait and run. (not financially, by time, equipment, and achievements)

    Not transferring to GW2 was a bit hard, I had all the prestige armors, Envoy scythe, GWAMM, but I was ready for the update.

    I will be hard pressed to buy GW3. I may give up online gaming at that point.

    What made you ready for the udpate then that wont make you ready for a gw3?

    They added the Z-Axis jump and underwater exploration/combat.

    "That's what" -- She

  • Eme.2018Eme.2018 Member ✭✭✭

    @Gehenna.3625 said:

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:
    yes, for most of playerbase me and some others here on the forum optimalisation (or rather lack of thereoff) is most important factor when asking for new game engine

    Fixed that for you. Don't want anyone accusing you of speaking of majorities you cannot prove.

    Well, either the majority of the player base is indeed having problems with the game's optimization or Gw2 has a really rich player base with godly PC's since I have an above average computer and still I struggle to get stable FPS, a sign of poor optimization.

  • If ever gw3 gets announced I think that would be the end of buying any form of microtransactions for me. Spending all that money only for it to eventually fade into obscurity? no thanks