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How would you redesign the elementalist?


Lonami.2987

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main problem on ele i see is, that the combo system - which once upon a time was good - is holding it back. the combo on ele works between your weaponskills while most other classes combos are an interaction between utility/proffession F-skills AND weapon skills. our F skills are very much behind - get a boon on swap at max IF in arcana.start looking at what other proffessions f-skills do:

  • thief is loaded on steal with heal, dmg, cc, utility

  • ranger movement, burst, utility, heal, support

  • guard dmg, support, heal

  • engi whatever u need and on holo aoe dmg

  • nec dmg,support, second hp bar

  • mesmer dmg, utility, invurln

  • rev stunbreak, dmg, another utility bar/another role

  • war burst dmg, defense, heal

  • and now ele a boon if in arcana and nothing if not in there

wheres the croud controle, the dmg, support, heal of other proffessions?

balance the onedimensional and hollow ele style on our proffesssion skills. its currently a free slot.

i get that ele needs a targeti get that ele needs to aim on that visible targeti get that ele has super slow attacksi get that everyone elses dodge is loadedi get that everyone else is better at burn or chilli get that ele has nothing that makes it special no immunity, no disengage potential and no other uniqueness

but i dont get why since 4 years nothing is done about it!

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@shinta.8906 said:main problem on ele i see is, that the combo system - which once upon a time was good - is holding it back. the combo on ele works between your weaponskills while most other classes combos are an interaction between utility/proffession F-skills AND weapon skills. our F skills are very much behind - get a boon on swap at max IF in arcana.start looking at what other proffessions f-skills do:

  • thief is loaded on steal

  • ranger movement, burst, utility

  • guard dmg, support, heal

  • engi whatever u need and on holo aoe dmg

  • nec dmg,support, second hp bar

  • mesmer dmg, utility, invurln

  • rev stunbreak, dmg, another utility bar/another role

  • war burst dmg, defense, heal

  • and now ele a boon if in arcana and nothing if not in there

wheres the croud controle, the dmg, support, heal of other proffessions?

balance the onedimensional and hollow ele style on our proffesssion skills. its currently a free slot.

i get that ele needs a targeti get that ele needs to aim on that visible targeti get that ele has super slow attacksi get that everyone else is better at burn or chilli get that ele has nothing that makes it special no immunity and no other uniqueness

but i dont get why since 4 years nothing is done about it!

You get damage, defense, support, mobility etc.from weapon skills after using F skills though. Funny how you included different utility bar/role on rev but forgot different weapon skills on ele.

You get free power, movement speed, precision, toughness, additional regen, immunity to crits, fire aura, condi cleanse, damage on attunement swap.

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@steki.1478 said:

You get free power, movement speed, precision, toughness, additional regen, immunity to crits, fire aura, condi cleanse, damage on attunement swap.

pls show on buildplaner. i love those 3030303030 builds ppl swing around in arguments. other proffessions have the same possibilities u mentioned on their weapon and utility skills and ON TOP they get use out of their proffession skills. our proffession skill is that we get excess to our weapon skills? and you celebrate that? much wow.

yeah i forgot the lazy stat trait. u do know that elemental polyphony just means that they admit our current multipliers are behind and instead of fixing it skill by skill they place one hollow trait that now holds a spot for a deeper proffession experience?

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@shinta.8906 said:

You get free power, movement speed, precision, toughness, additional regen, immunity to crits, fire aura, condi cleanse, damage on attunement swap.

pls show on buildplaner. i love those 3030303030 builds ppl swing around in arguments. other proffessions have the same possibilities u mentioned on their weapon and utility skills and ON TOP they get use out of their proffession skills. our proffession skill is that we get excess to our weapon skills? and you celebrate that? much wow.

yeah i forgot the lazy stat trait. u do know that elemental polyphony just means that they admit our current multipliers are behind and instead of fixing it skill by skill they place one hollow trait that now holds a spot for a deeper proffession experience?

You dont get all bonuses, but you can have at least half of those at any point.

Each class is designed around different mechanics. Ele gets 4 sets of weapon skills and thief gets only one gap close. Rev gets legend swap, which works same like attunements. You can trait those to stun break, but you can also stun break with overloads or with vast amount of selectable utilities (which revs dont have, they use what they get). Other clssses don't have same possibilities since they dont have 25 skills by default. Other classes dont have conjured weapons on top of 25 skills. Other classes dont have aoe dps weapon on max range...

Each class has its own pros and cons, but comparing cons of one class with pros of every other class is pointless, especially if your class has access to some of those mentioned pros.

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@steki.1478 said:

Each class has its own pros and cons, but comparing cons of one class with pros of every other class is pointless, especially if your class has access to some of those mentioned pros.

i know that. i just question the fact why ele is the only class that has the cons on it (1 boon + 2 might and a reduced cd) while any other proff gets actually usefull and unique stuff. if i d had acces to weaponswitch sigills instead i'd get more use out of them than the whole of arcana line.

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@shinta.8906 said:

Each class has its own pros and cons, but comparing cons of one class with pros of every other class is pointless, especially if your class has access to some of those mentioned pros.

i know that. i just question the fact why ele is the only class that has the cons on it (1 boon + 2 might and a reduced cd) while any other proff gets actually usefull and unique stuff. if i d had acces to weaponswitch sigills instead i'd get more use out of them than the whole of arcana line.

Because you get additional effects from each attunement specialization and because other classes dont have 25 skills.

Ele's traits improve weapon skills per element (which is all weapons at once, with one trait), but other classes get 1 trait per weapon (or two) and different traits for F skills.

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@steki.1478 said:

Because you get additional effects from each attunement specialization and because other classes dont have 25 skills.

u mean probably atunement traitline? i run all of them. i got reduced cd on all my atunements. it's op.

i also got not only 25 skills (4x5 right?) i doubled it and got 50. because magic.

Ele's traits improve weapon skills per element (which is all weapons at once, with one trait), but other classes get 1 trait per weapon (or two)

yeah all weapons on ele fullfill the same role. doesnt matter. because reduced fire cd is also op on scepter.

other professions have their weapon cd traits actually in lines that are tight to those weapons. so a whole line full of traits that makes their role on respective weapon easier or stronger in the one or other direction.

and different traits for F skills.

exactly what i stated at the start of that meaningless discussion. our traits for profession F-skills are a hollow shell meanwhile all other classes have dedicated trailines defining their F-abilities.

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@Blue.1207 said:Remove conjures from Ele and you have a good class with a fun rotation.

Yeah, conjures isn't fun to me at all.

Also, I dont think weavers should have a GCD on attunement swap. I'd just balance the skills around there not being a GCD. Weaving skills should be fluid and on a whim. That's just my strong opinion.

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First off I'd change conjure-weapons. The utility-skill gets ammunition-charges, up to two. If you don't hold the summoned weapon, the weapon will be conjured to your hands, nothing more. Once you hold the weapon, the utility-skill changes, allowing you to place the second cast onto the ground like usual. If you drop your conjure, the utility-skill changes back and sets it to a cooldown. This way you stay mobile should your rotation require the conjured weapons, no one can snag them up and combat areas aren't as cluttered with weapons.

I'm relatively OK with the Tempest, only the water-overload is a little underwhelming.

There is one thing that greatly bothers me with the weaver. Namely that the prior mainhand attunement switches to offhand on attuning to a different element. It makes me feel like the attunements are like a book-stack that you sort on your nighttable, rather than elemental magic.I'd rather have total control over main- and offhand. Maybe something like this: F1 - F4 for mainhand-attunement, (Strg+F1) - (Strg+F4) for offhand-attunement.

Cast-Times which root you to the ground also feel highly unintuitive in GW2s flexible combat-system, although I understand the premise of the added complexity and risk.It wouldn't be that bad if dodging would be a bit more responsive to cancel long casts like Meteor Shower, should the need arise.

A little less cast time on auto-hits would be nice as well.

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  • 1 month later...

@"CETheLucid.3964" said:I'd make it horribly OP and break the game because I don't really know anything about game design. Numbers don't lie though and player experience should count for something. It should be fun, feel good, work thematically with your class.

There's something off if another class can do a two button rotation and achieve near what your class can do only under a very strict rotation and only under the most ideal of circumstances.

Elementalist is the glass canon mage of the classes and it doesn't feel like the canon part of the equation pays out for the drawbacks of the glass bit in high end content. It'll "work". Elementalist is and will be the "top DPS"... by like 2-5k damage.

But given what the elementalist has to do and what has to be built around the ele to achieve these numbers that other classes can approach with a much shorter skill ceiling?

Dedicated speed clear guilds may have a place for an ele. But the average player meta will probably push them out in favor of classes that can achieve near the same damage more consistently with less risk.

I don't want that to happen. So uhh... whatever makes that not happen. Without screwing up or scrapping what we already have established.

That's exactly the problem. You have to do twice the work for a similar result. It doesn't pay off.

I'd point my fingers at the 4 attunements and the conjures, they make balance a hellscape. Reduce them to 2 attunements, remove conjures, and add weapon swap. Less is more.

@Oogabooga.3812 said:I want to see a viable condition damage spec. The specialization could be called Avatar and take on torch offhand.

We need more weapons in core, each one being geared towards specific roles.

@"shinta.8906" said:main problem on ele i see is, that the combo system - which once upon a time was good - is holding it back. the combo on ele works between your weaponskills while most other classes combos are an interaction between utility/proffession F-skills AND weapon skills. our F skills are very much behind - get a boon on swap at max IF in arcana.start looking at what other proffessions f-skills do:

  • thief is loaded on steal with heal, dmg, cc, utility

  • ranger movement, burst, utility, heal, support

  • guard dmg, support, heal

  • engi whatever u need and on holo aoe dmg

  • nec dmg,support, second hp bar

  • mesmer dmg, utility, invurln

  • rev stunbreak, dmg, another utility bar/another role

  • war burst dmg, defense, heal

  • and now ele a boon if in arcana and nothing if not in there

wheres the croud controle, the dmg, support, heal of other proffessions?

balance the onedimensional and hollow ele style on our proffesssion skills. its currently a free slot.

i get that ele needs a targeti get that ele needs to aim on that visible targeti get that ele has super slow attacksi get that everyone elses dodge is loadedi get that everyone else is better at burn or chilli get that ele has nothing that makes it special no immunity, no disengage potential and no other uniqueness

but i dont get why since 4 years nothing is done about it!

I already suggested a special combo system as the trademark ability of the elementalist, here in this very thread.

Basically, the idea is to let elementalist merge combo fields, for new effects, so you're encouraged to rotate and stack fields in specific order and timing. For example, fire+water = steam (burning+heal), earth+water = mud (slow+protection), mud+fire = clay (immobilize), etc. You would be able to use both your own fields as well as those summoned by your allies.

Elementalist would then get its own role, that of boon support. You can take that further, and give him the ability to counter enemy fields as well, or just persistent AoE in general. Enemy places a fire wall? Your team's elementalist can counter it, not by dispelling it, but by turning it into something else.

@tekfan.3179 said:First off I'd change conjure-weapons. The utility-skill gets ammunition-charges, up to two. If you don't hold the summoned weapon, the weapon will be conjured to your hands, nothing more. Once you hold the weapon, the utility-skill changes, allowing you to place the second cast onto the ground like usual. If you drop your conjure, the utility-skill changes back and sets it to a cooldown. This way you stay mobile should your rotation require the conjured weapons, no one can snag them up and combat areas aren't as cluttered with weapons.

I'm relatively OK with the Tempest, only the water-overload is a little underwhelming.

There is one thing that greatly bothers me with the weaver. Namely that the prior mainhand attunement switches to offhand on attuning to a different element. It makes me feel like the attunements are like a book-stack that you sort on your nighttable, rather than elemental magic.I'd rather have total control over main- and offhand. Maybe something like this: F1 - F4 for mainhand-attunement, (Strg+F1) - (Strg+F4) for offhand-attunement.

Cast-Times which root you to the ground also feel highly unintuitive in GW2s flexible combat-system, although I understand the premise of the added complexity and risk.It wouldn't be that bad if dodging would be a bit more responsive to cancel long casts like Meteor Shower, should the need arise.

A little less cast time on auto-hits would be nice as well.

I'd rather just remove conjures altogether, and add them as new weapons, together with weapon swap. At least the shortbow and the greatsword, the other three aren't that unique anyway.

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@Blue.1207 said:Remove conjures from Ele and you have a good class with a fun rotation.

I think that Engineer kits and Ele conjures should have a special f5 slot. The menu would drop down for selection, and all kits and conjure would be there, but you can only pick one kit or conjure. This would solve some of the insanity without losing or removing the skills, but would help with the rotation.

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  • 1 month later...

@Opopanax.1803 said:I don't think ele needs a redesign, I think they just need a base hp buff so they have more options for armor and stat choices. Their dmg has been nerfed too much at this point to warrant the penalty.

Yeah, speaking of base health, elementalists definitely need to be moved to the mid tier. It's insane that mesmers are there, instead of the lower one, since they're supposed to be more glass cannon than eles. This is how it should be, in my opinion:

  • High: Necromancer, Engineer, Warrior.
  • Mid: Elementalist, Ranger, Guardian.
  • Low: Mesmer, Thief, Revenant.

@Opopanax.1803 said:

@Blue.1207 said:Remove conjures from Ele and you have a good class with a fun rotation.

I think that Engineer kits and Ele conjures should have a special f5 slot. The menu would drop down for selection, and all kits and conjure would be there, but you can only pick one kit or conjure. This would solve some of the insanity without losing or removing the skills, but would help with the rotation.

Just make them new weapons, and add weapon swap. Conjures are kinda pointless as they are right now anyway.

Or well, at least turn them into kits, with double ammunition, and do not drop them in the ground for others to take.

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Elementalist is in a bad place in pvp for two reasons.

  1. Elementalist base stats and active defenses are terrible forcing eles to run survivability amulets, which makes them useless
  2. Elementalists don't do anything better than another profession can and have weak traits.

How to fix?

  • Give each core trait line a purpose that provides a viable role for ele.
  • Boost Elementalist survivability through trait lines

FireFire trait line will be focused around might/damage, auras, and boon removal

  • Minor Traits

    1. Burning Precision: 50% Chance on crit to inflict burning for 2 seconds, 3 sec icd per enemy,
    2. Sunspot: Same as before except it now removes a boon from all enemies it hits.
    3. Burning Rage: keep the same, but add burning a foe grants 10 endurance, 5 sec icd
  • Adept

    1. Empowering Aura: Auras grant 200 power, effect does not stack
    2. Extreme Might10 extra Power and Condition Damage per might stack for ele only
    3. Cleansing Flames: Burning an enemy removes a boon, 5 sec icd per enemy
  • Master

    1. Pyromancers Training, keep the same,
    2. Smoothering Auras: keep the same, but add removing a condition from an ally grants 10 endurance
    3. Cauterize: Removing a boon inflicts damage
  • Grandmaster

    1. Burning Strength: Gain 3 stacks of might for 10 seconds when you burn a foe. 2 sec icd. Deal 10% more damage while under the effects of might.
    2. Explosive Purification: Create a fire explosion when striking a burning enemy that deals damage and removes 5 boons from all enemies hit. 15 sec icd.
    3. Powerful Aura: Any aura you grant yourself is granted to nearby allies, auras grant fury and might

AirAir trait line will be focused on debuffs through vuln and weakness, single target damage, cc, and damage buffs

  • Minor

    1. Zephyr's Speed: Keep the 25% movement speed buff but also add 3 seconds of superspeed upon attuning to air.
    2. Electric Discharge: Keep the Same
    3. Raging Storm: keep the same
  • Adept

    1. Zephyr's boon: Fury grants an extra 10% crit chance
    2. Crippling Weakness: Applying Weakness inflicts cripple and 3 stacks of vuln for 3 seconds
    3. Speedy Demise: Deal 7% more damage while under the effects of superspeed
  • Master

    1. Aeromancers Training: Keep the same
    2. Tempest Defense: Keep the same
    3. Inscription: Keep the same, but add casting a glyph grants a buff to nearby allies that causes their next 3 attacks cast Electric discharge
  • Grandmaster

    1. Fresh air: keep the same
    2. Lighting rod: keep the same, but add electric discharge dazes for 1 second
    3. Bolt to the Heart: Electric discharge now applies 7 stacks of vuln for 10 seconds and Critical hits have a 50% chance to cast electric discharge 3 sec icd, the Electric Discharge applies a five second effect on your target that increases your damage to them by 15%

EarthEarth trait line will be focused on personal protection, stability, signets, blasts, and condition protection

  • Minor

    1. Protective Blast: Gain Protection for 3 seconds when performing a blast finisher
    2. Earthen Blast: keep the same but is now a blast finisher
    3. Geomancer's defense: Keep the same
  • Adept

    1. Elemental Shielding: keep the same
    2. Earth's embrace: keep the same
    3. Stable Signet: Signets grant 1 stack of stability for four seconds
  • Master

    1. Geomancer's Training: keep the same
    2. Rock Solid: Gain stability on attuning to earth, stability grants 200 toughness
    3. Punishing Blast: Blast finishes cripple and weaken foes for 2 seconds
  • Grandmaster

    1. Stone Heart: Protection reduces critical damage to the elementalist by 33% aoe 5 sec weakness when critically hit, 20 sec icd
    2. Written in Stone: Keep the same
    3. Diamond Skin: Remove a condition when struck while under the effects of protection receive 33% less condition damage while under the effects of protection(3 sec icd)

WaterWater trait line is focused around support through healing, condition hate, and chill

  • Minor

    1. Soothing Mist: keep the same
    2. Healing Ripple: keep the same
    3. Aquatic Healing: Healing is 15% more effective both to allies and you
  • Adept

    1. Soothing Ice: Keep the Same
    2. Conditional Healing: Heal yourself and allies 2% more for each condition on them or you
    3. Stop, Drop, and Roll: Dodging removes a damaging and non-damaging condition from nearby allies
  • Master

    1. Soothing Disruption: Keep the Same but boons are now aoe
    2. Cool Relief: Foes you chill pulse healing to allies while chilled
    3. Aquamancers training: Keep the same, but remove damage boost and add remove condi from allies on water attune
  • Grandmaster

    1. Cleansing Water: Keep the same
    2. Soothing Power: Soothing Mist is 100% more effective, Healing to allies is 25% more effective
    3. Chilling Vulnerability: Gain frost aura for 4 seconds on attuning to water, Applying chill applies 3 stacks of vulnerablity for 8 seconds, Vulnerability now reduces the damage the enemy deals instead of increasing the damage they take

ArcaneArcane trait line focuses on boons, evasion, arcanes skills, and random stuff

  • Minor

    1. Arcane Prowess: keep as is
    2. Elemental Attunement: Keep as is
    3. Elemental Enchantment: Keep as is
  • Adept

    1. Renewing stamina: keep as is
    2. Arcane Precision: keep as is
    3. Arcane Abatement: increase healing
  • Master

    1. Arcane Ressurection: Good for support I guess, leave alone.
    2. Elemental Contingency: leave as is
    3. Final Shielding: Leave as is
  • Grandmaster

    1. Evasive Arcana: Leave as is
    2. Elemental Surge: Leave as is
    3. Bountiful Strength: Deal increased damage for each boon you have. Gain 2 endurance when you gain a boon.

TempestDo tempest stuff better

  • Minor

    1. Singularity: Keep the same
    2. Stable Conduit: Gain stability when starting an overload
    3. Hardy Conduit: Keep the same
  • Adept

    1. Unstable Conduit: keep the same
    2. Latent Stamina: Applying vigor grants 20 stamina, Gain Vigor when starting and completing an overload.
    3. Gale Song: Keep as is, but add shouts grants 3 seconds of quickness and 5 seconds of swiftness
  • Master

    1. Invigorating Torrents: Keep as is
    2. Tempestuous Aria: Reduce shout cooldown by 20% the next attack of allies affected by a shout inflict 3 seconds of cripple and weakness and slow
    3. Speedy Conduit: Overloads are available two seconds earlier and channel 25% faster
  • Grandmaster

    1. Unstoppable Singularity: keep as is, but add overloads grant superspeed and inflict cripple chill and immob for 3 seconds upon completion.
    2. Elemental Bastion: keep as is
    3. Imbued Melodies: Gain 300 concentration, completing an overload grants Protection, aegis, stability, and regen for 3 seconds to allies.

WeaverDon't really know what to do with this, but I have a few ideas.

  • Woven stride: Gaining swiftness or superspeed removes condis, nix the regen, heal while under the effects of swiftness
  • Boost barrier application all around
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  • 2 weeks later...

@Lonami.2987 said:Weapon skill normalization.

This means that every weapon does the same thing, no matter the attunement. Skills would still change, but they would use the same core stats and design, making them easier to balance and design. Few examples:

I don't hate the idea but at this time, a change that significant could be dangerous.

Many who play ele might play it specifically because they like the existing attunement system. A change this drastic could see many of them jump ship.

@Lonami.2987 said:The first of them is weapon swap. One of my biggest gripes with elementalist, is being locked to either melee or ranged, and not being able to change without going out of combat.

I've probably spent more time playing ele than any other profession and not once was I ever bothered by this.

Ele are a light armour caster class. Ranged combat is the norm.


Two changes to eles would massively improve them IMO.

Remove the durations from conjured weapons. Give them a range instead, i.e. they last until dropped or if picked up by another player once they move a certain distance away from the elementalist. Having to summon new ones is annoying, especially when playing with others and there might be just one they want to use.

Do the same for conjured elementals. If elementals were perma summons like necromancer pets, I'd have been much more into GW2.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Another round, taking the best pieces of each previous version.

My main goal is to give elementalist a meaningful core mechanic, where attunements have an actual impact, and aren't just another form of weapon swap, where you just rotate and spam whatever is available. I believe the profession is a clear case of "more is less", so I'm simplifying multiple things for the sake of balance and impact too. I've also given tempest and weaver much more clear roles and playstyles.


Elementalist

  • You no longer have four attunements available at once. Instead, you choose and equip two, in mechanic slots F1 and F2. Cooldown for attunement swapping has been greatly reduced.
  • Weapon skills in different attunements now have the same base skill mechanic, each attunement adding an extra layer of effects over them. For example, now the second dagger skill is always a cone, the third dagger skill is always a dash, and the fifth staff skill is always a channeled ranged area of effect. Every weapon will play and feel the same no matter the attunement, but you'll still have to pay attention to the extra effects in each one to maximize your efficiency.
  • Individual cooldowns for each weapon skill have been increased, but can be greatly reduced by swapping attunements back and forth, rewarding players who rotate constantly.
  • Weapon swap has been enabled. Greatsword and short bow have been unlocked for the core profession.
  • Each weapon has a dedicated role now. Direct damage is covered by greatsword and short bow, condition damage by daggers and staff, and support by scepter and focus. Attunements no longer define the roles.
  • Auras are no longer available as individual weapon skills.
  • Conjures have been removed, replaced by totems, with a functionality similar to banners and spirits.
  • Glyphs have been repurposed with various support options. Elemental minions are no longer available.
  • Arcane skills have been repurposed into enchantments, with a functionality similar to venoms.
  • Cantrips and signets keep most of their functions intact.
  • Base health gained per level has been increased, from a total of 1,645 to 5,922, leaving elementalist in the medium health tier.

Tempest

  • Auras have been repurposed as a new type of effect, and renamed as Wards. Like other effects, wards have a limited duration and a number of stacks. The active effect of a ward only triggers when you receive direct damage, consuming one stack every time until you run out of them, in which case the ward effect is removed. Hard crowd control effects can be used to remove multiple ward stacks at once without triggering the active effects.
  • Facets have been renamed as Auras. New mechanic skills F3, F4, and F5 contain auras now. Use once to activate the passive effect (Aura), and again to consume it and trigger an active skill (Overload). Each aura has a different effect depending on the active attunement.
  • F3 applies an offensive boon on passive, and triggers a pulsating combo finisher on active.
  • F4 applies a defensive boon on passive, and triggers a pulsating combo field on active.
  • F5 applies a ward on passive, and triggers a pulsating area of effect attack on active.
  • Triggering the active skill of the three auras at once combines and boosts their effects.
  • Swapping attunements while any auras are active will deactivate them automatically, with no cooldown costs. Much like weapon skills, swapping attunements back and forth reduces consumed aura cooldowns.
  • Warhorn now has a dedicated support role.
  • All shouts apply wards now.

Weaver

  • The four attunements are now available at once, in mechanic slots F1, F2, F3, and F4.
  • Chain skills now hold their chain step after an attunement swap. For example, the first sword skill has a chain attack. You can use it on fire, advancing to step two of the chain, and then swap to water, staying in step two. Successfully rotating between the four attunements with every step unlocks a special fourth step chain skill.
  • Channel skills are no longer canceled by an attunement swap. Instead, the channel effects merge and stack. For example, the fifth staff skill is a channeled area of effect. In fire, the effect is a burning meteor shower, and in water, a frost meteor shower. If you start casting on fire, and swap to water before the channel is over, the channel duration will stack, and both effects will be applied at once. If you successfully channel the four attunements together, you will unlock a new powerful special effect, lasting longer the longer you waited to swap between each attunement during the channeling. If you're interrupted, the whole process will be cancelled, and you'll need to start over again.
  • Sword off-hand has been enabled. Swords now have a dedicated direct damage role.
  • Stances have been repurposed to reward specific attunement swap combinations.

If you've checked the other profession redesign threads, you'll know my primary goal is to normalize core mechanics, and build elite specializations from a dual profession viewpoint, mechanic-wise. Tempest uses auras, the new guardian core mechanic inspired by herald facets, and weaver is a double elementalist.

Some new elite specialization ideas to see how the changes could affect them, based on the new core mechanics of revenant, necromancer, and warrior:


Dervish

  • New mechanic skill F3 lets you phase into a djinn form, gaining new slot skills and an attribute boost. Both the transformation and the new slot skills require a new energy bar resource to be activated, much like the necromancer's Death Shroud. There's one transformation per attunement, each having its own slot skills and boosted attributes. Weapon skills remain unaffected by the transformation.
  • Polearm is the new weapon, with a dedicated direct damage role.
  • Wells are the new slot skills, specially designed for close-combat situations.

Shaman

  • New mechanic skills F3, F4, and F5 let you summon and control a swarm of elemental minions.
  • Longbow is the new weapon, with a dedicated condition damage role.
  • Minions are the new slot skills, designed to boost the summoner mechanic.

Chaplain

  • New mechanic skills F3, F4, and F5 contain burst skills, based on the active attunement and weapon. Successfully performed burst attacks provide an attribute boost and increase the strenght of following burst attacks.
  • Maces are the new weapon, with a dedicated healing role.
  • Mantras are the new slot skills, with additional healing options.

This is my favorite so far, hope you liked it!

And remember, this thread is just for fun, so feel free to post any ideas you have, even if you believe there's no way they could be happening.

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Stop the "fire spec" "water spec" etc too septate to the respectiveF1-4 and weapon skills; on contrary add traits on utility skills. Similar to every others classes; because, sadly, it works better.

Keep Arcanes dedicated to swap and make "Glyphs and staff and stuffs spec" "Cantrips and focus and stuffs spec" for example. Like, don't put a lesser cantrip in fire, an other in earth but the bonus effect in water, as it is now; that's ... frustrating....

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@"steki.1478" said:Each class is designed around different mechanics. Ele gets 4 sets of weapon skills and thief gets only one gap close. Rev gets legend swap, which works same like attunements. You can trait those to stun break, but you can also stun break with overloads or with vast amount of selectable utilities (which revs dont have, they use what they get). Other clssses don't have same possibilities since they dont have 25 skills by default. Other classes dont have conjured weapons on top of 25 skills. Other classes dont have aoe dps weapon on max range...

It's this type of argument that makes me want to rework attunements or eliminate them altogether. It's an interesting mechanic, to be sure, but the practicalities of it are less than optimal.

In PvE, I realistically have <= 15 skills (fire, some air, and a couple skills between conjures and utils that are useful). Water and earth attunements are traps that burn time and reduce DPS, and with a DPS spec, don't even effectively serve their intended purposes. It's wholly frustrating, then, that the answer to so many "why can't ele have X" questions is "because you have 25 skills" -- I don't want half of them.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Two changes i would to see (total reworks, not just re-balancing that is needed)

1) Like Lonami.2987 is suggesting. 4 attunement swapping is what makes ele unique. But is also what holds it back.So maybe choosing 2 attunement out of the 4 isn't a bad solution.I wouldn't change the weapon skills tho, they should be unique per weapon and attunement. But skills/traits should be re-balanced accordingly.

2) Instead of weapon swapping I would change how Conjuring works.When you conjure a weapon, it goes in the 2nd weapon slot (for the ele only)For example: Conjure Ice bow: Get an ice bow as 2nd weapon set for 30(ish) sec. So an s/d weaver would be able to weapon swap every 9 sec to a ranged weapon.This would make conjure weapon still unique compared with kits or spirit weapons. And would make conjure weapons way more usefull.

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@Feanor.2358 said:

@"Lonami.2987" said:I love my four attunements, but I think this could be a pretty good solution, and solve most of the problems, if not all of them. What we have now is kinda pointless most of the time. Great for aesthetics, but a burden for gameplay.

There are no problems with the class mechanic, it works like a charm, it's great thematically (which your "solution" isn't) and I strongly disagree with your assessment of it. I fail to see how it is a "burden". It's versatility. You don't use it all the time - duh! - you use it when the situation is right and you need it. This is a big part of what makes ele feel so great. You're "solving" non-issues, introducing real ones. Like, weapon swap, really? You realize most weapons will have to be gutted for that to happen, don't you?

Since this thread seems to be ongoing I'd have to say that I agree with you that the class mechanic isn't the real problem. Honestly, I find most redesigns to be taking bits and pieces from other professions that people like or an attempt to make the profession play more like the other professions. I get the impression from all these redesign threads that there is a segment (how big it is, is beyond me as I maintain the forums is a lousy way of determining overall game agreement on issues) of the player base that really wishes that the professions all played the same for the most part with a few thematic choices here and there that separates them. I find the professions that are the most unique in the game are the ones that are the most frequently redesigned so my general impression is that this segment really doesn't want ANet to actually explore different professions concepts, i.e. Elementalist, Engineer, and Revenant seem to be popular professions to redesign. Granted, that's what makes them so much fun, their uniqueness and the way that they actually play differently from everything else. I also tend to see that professions that are hard to master are redesigned to be easier and the professions that require micromanagement are redesigned so that they don't.

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Damn I am very hooked on your weaver improvement.Mine would be lazy and boring like adding vitality and toughness a tier higher than core elementalist, but your are more true to the elite aspect in my opinion.And what is better it does something to the gameplay.

Great suggestion there, that might made me more happy when playing on my weaver, and not dreaming of my guardian xD

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  • 5 months later...

@ATMAvatar.5749 said:

@"steki.1478" said:Each class is designed around different mechanics. Ele gets 4 sets of weapon skills and thief gets only one gap close. Rev gets legend swap, which works same like attunements. You can trait those to stun break, but you can also stun break with overloads or with vast amount of selectable utilities (which revs dont have, they use what they get). Other clssses don't have same possibilities since they dont have 25 skills by default. Other classes dont have conjured weapons on top of 25 skills. Other classes dont have aoe dps weapon on max range...

It's this type of argument that makes me want to rework attunements or eliminate them altogether. It's an interesting mechanic, to be sure, but the practicalities of it are less than optimal.

In PvE, I realistically have <= 15 skills (
fire, some air, and a couple skills between conjures and utils that are useful
). Water and earth attunements are traps that burn time and reduce DPS, and with a DPS spec, don't even effectively serve their intended purposes. It's wholly frustrating, then, that the answer to so many "why can't ele have X" questions is "because you have 25 skills" -- I don't want half of them.

Traits have problems across all professions. I think the trait line model is to blame, if we had a "choose freely" or a tree model, these kind of problems wouldn't even exist.

@Babooshka.7826 said:Two changes i would to see (total reworks, not just re-balancing that is needed)

1) Like Lonami.2987 is suggesting. 4 attunement swapping is what makes ele unique. But is also what holds it back.So maybe choosing 2 attunement out of the 4 isn't a bad solution.I wouldn't change the weapon skills tho, they should be unique per weapon and attunement. But skills/traits should be re-balanced accordingly.

2) Instead of weapon swapping I would change how Conjuring works.When you conjure a weapon, it goes in the 2nd weapon slot (for the ele only)For example: Conjure Ice bow: Get an ice bow as 2nd weapon set for 30(ish) sec. So an s/d weaver would be able to weapon swap every 9 sec to a ranged weapon.This would make conjure weapon still unique compared with kits or spirit weapons. And would make conjure weapons way more usefull.

The idea is to change skills to make development and balance easier. Weapon swap would compensate that loss, while keeping attunements as an interesting mechanic, instead of just another glorified weapon skill swap.

@Dace.8173 said:

@"Lonami.2987" said:I love my four attunements, but I think this could be a pretty good solution, and solve most of the problems, if not all of them. What we have now is kinda pointless most of the time. Great for aesthetics, but a burden for gameplay.

There are no problems with the class mechanic, it works like a charm, it's great thematically (which your "solution" isn't) and I strongly disagree with your assessment of it. I fail to see how it is a "burden". It's versatility. You don't use it all the time - duh! - you use it when the situation is right and you need it. This is a big part of what makes ele feel so great. You're "solving" non-issues, introducing real ones. Like, weapon swap, really? You realize most weapons will have to be gutted for that to happen, don't you?

I find the professions that are the most unique in the game are the ones that are the most frequently redesigned so my general impression is that this segment really doesn't want ANet to actually explore different professions concepts, i.e. Elementalist, Engineer, and Revenant seem to be popular professions to redesign. Granted, that's what makes them so much fun, their uniqueness and the way that they actually play differently from everything else.

Well, I don't think they are really unique. Their "core mechanic" is just a glorified skill swap, for the three of them.

@Phoenix the One.4071 said:kitten I am very hooked on your weaver improvement.Mine would be lazy and boring like adding vitality and toughness a tier higher than core elementalist, but your are more true to the elite aspect in my opinion.And what is better it does something to the gameplay.

Great suggestion there, that might made me more happy when playing on my weaver, and not dreaming of my guardian xD

Thanks, glad you liked it :D.

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