About our Policy on RMT — Guild Wars 2 Forums

About our Policy on RMT

In recent days, a few players have expressed confusion or concern about our RMT policy, especially about how we handle cases where someone receives items or currency from a real-money trader. To help everyone best understand where we stand on this subject, we’ve clarified our position in our Knowledge Base article, Policy: Purchasing Gold from Real Money Traders (RMT). This expanded version is currently undergoing localization and will be posted in French, German, and Spanish as soon as possible.

Please take a look at that document, and if you have any questions after you have done so, let us know.

Gaile Gray
Communications Manager: ArenaNet
Fansite & Guild Relations; In-Game Events; Community Showcase Live

Tagged:
<1

Comments

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2018

    I read from the policy that action will not be taken against account if deemed to be on the receivership to such a scenario and that action will only be taken if deemed to be linked beyond just receiving. They do mention mistakes happen their end and they will work to undo any errors caused.

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Karaha.3290Karaha.3290 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vagrant.7206 said:
    Hi @Gaile Gray.6029, thanks for posting this.

    The concern right now is that sometimes people will use RMT and buy gold for somebody else's account in attempts to try and get them banned. How does the ANet support team plan to address this issue so that the uninformed are not targeted or penalized by this kind of behavior as well? What assurances do we have from the support team?


    Context for those who are unaware of what has been happening: https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/9d7orp/how_to_get_someone_banned_for_less_than_3/?st=jnxsx4dd&sh=df055dc4

    They wrote about it in the updated policy.

    If you suspect you’ve received items or gold from a gold seller or RMT account, the best action is to report the message, return it if it still contains the items, and contact support if you are concerned that further action may be taken. We will work with you to secure your account and track the items back to the RMT account(s).

  • @MithranArkanere.8957 said:
    All I want to see is a clear and concise assurance that no one will receive a punishment if they do not actually receive the items in their account, ...

    Here's what I see in the article that relates to that question:

    If you suspect you’ve received items or gold from a gold seller or RMT account, the best action is to report the message, return it if it still contains the items, and contact support if you are concerned that further action may be taken. We will work with you to secure your account and track the items back to the RMT account(s).

    and

    When the Support Team detects that RMT gold has been sent to an account,

    • If possible, support will try to remove or recover any funds or items sent by an RMT account and collected by the buyer.
    • If the gold or items are collected from the in-game message, it may be subtracted from the user’s wallet or manually removed by a support agent.

    Or in other words, (a) block the sender then (b) report them and then (c) return the mail. There's nothing remotely suggesting that a recipient who refuses unwanted coin/goods is at risk of any action by ANet on their account.


    Unfortunately, that's not as explicit as the language used above by @MithranArkanere.8957.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • Yasi.9065Yasi.9065 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2018

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    In recent days, a few players have expressed confusion or concern about our RMT policy, especially about how we handle cases where someone receives items or currency from a real-money trader. To help everyone best understand where we stand on this subject, we’ve clarified our position in our Knowledge Base article, Policy: Purchasing Gold from Real Money Traders (RMT). This expanded version is currently undergoing localization and will be posted in French, German, and Spanish as soon as possible.

    Please take a look at that document, and if you have any questions after you have done so, let us know.

    Hi, thanks for posting this :)

    One short question, we have seen several times that the gold got subtracted before the ig mail was opened. Does that mean that one can take the gold from the ig mail or do we have to let the ig mail sit unopened there or destroy the gold ourselves then?

    Thanks again ;)

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    People making up these scenarios is just hilarious to me. Guys, you WILL know if its RMT gold or not. No friend would randomly do this without leaving a message as well. If it's a stranger without message, don't accept it. If it's a friend randomly doing it, it's a bit suspicious at the least.

    Very passive aggressively chuckling, because I'm totally not mad on the Internet.

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭

    I only have something to say:

    Let me disable mail attachments from other players altogether. I don't want to receive anything from other players, and I don't want to send anything to them either.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @insanemaniac.2456 said:
    more than this must happen on this front, gaile.

    Really? Just to satisfy the fearmongering? People need to calm down and get real.

    Very passive aggressively chuckling, because I'm totally not mad on the Internet.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @insanemaniac.2456 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @insanemaniac.2456 said:
    more than this must happen on this front, gaile.

    Really? Just to satisfy the fearmongering? People need to calm down and get real.

    yeah, really. bring it to mo if gaile doesnt want / have authority to comment and tell us this stupid loophole in their process is closed.

    It's pretty obvious if you read it. There isn't any ambiguous wording there.

    Very passive aggressively chuckling, because I'm totally not mad on the Internet.

  • everyone is forgetting that the person who was sent gold ACCEPTED the 200 gold in order to "reply" to the gold seller? There really is no reason to do that. Yes, this is avoidable; do NOT accept the gold!

  • @Xaina.5418 said:
    @Gaile Gray.6029

    I'm the victim of this RMT scam. A person asked a RMT gold seller to send the RMT gold to my account to actually achieve his goal to get me banned.
    Ticket ID: 7123881 and 7124085

    More details of what happened: https://i.imgur.com/Ke76Y3W.jpg

    Can you please take a look into this issue and tell me if the red flag of RMT purchase is going to be removed from my account? I never did RMT and I never will. I'm a GW1 player for over 11 years and a GW2 player for over 6,5 years since the very first beta. I paid thousands of EUR over the past 6 years on gems/gemstore but I never did RMT.

    You accepted the gold. That's an instant flag. Doesn't matter if you're going to "send it back" you are not innocent in this situation. There was no reason to respond to that account; They were just following a money order from someone who put in your account/character name.

  • I'm sure the idea has reached the dev team, but in case it has not - have you all considered making it so that you can opt out of random mail? Perhaps a function to limit mail received to only those in your friends list? While this won't catch all cases, it would prevent the vast majority. But, if this new policy is followed dutifully, perhaps it is unnecessary.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2018

    already address by others in thread reading further.

  • Vegeta.2563Vegeta.2563 Member ✭✭✭

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    In recent days, a few players have expressed confusion or concern about our RMT policy, especially about how we handle cases where someone receives items or currency from a real-money trader. To help everyone best understand where we stand on this subject, we’ve clarified our position in our Knowledge Base article, Policy: Purchasing Gold from Real Money Traders (RMT). This expanded version is currently undergoing localization and will be posted in French, German, and Spanish as soon as possible.

    Please take a look at that document, and if you have any questions after you have done so, let us know.

    I read the article, but I did not see any mention on what to do when someone else spends real money to buy gold from an illegal source, but has the gold seller send it to your account. This is the major problem. Us as players fully understand that buying gold from RMT warrants a ban in doing so, but when someone else buys gold and has that sent to your account and you get punished because you were unaware it was happening. This is not right.

    I'm assuming you guys keep logs of items and gold traded back & forth via in game mail. Why not just make a simple rule. If the receiver presses "Take All" Then continue with the suspension, but if the receiver presses "Return To Sender" Then only ban the sender as that is obviously one of the gold seller's accounts. You guys could even track where the gold came from before that if it was traded from a 3rd source and possibly stumbleupon a bigger operation of gold sellers.

  • @Blocki.4931 said:

    @insanemaniac.2456 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @insanemaniac.2456 said:
    more than this must happen on this front, gaile.

    Really? Just to satisfy the fearmongering? People need to calm down and get real.

    yeah, really. bring it to mo if gaile doesnt want / have authority to comment and tell us this stupid loophole in their process is closed.

    It's pretty obvious if you read it. There isn't any ambiguous wording there.

    would you like to have 100g RMT sent to you to test the new policy and see if anet is still jumping the gun by handing out bans upon having a mail sent rather than having a mail accepted?

  • Unknown.3976Unknown.3976 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2018

    @thrag.9740 said:
    This is tone deaf. Players want to know that a salty player/troll can't just send RMT gold to them to get them banned. Instead of linking to a large page why don't you just answer that question?

    Also your page says, "If you suspect you’ve received items or gold from a gold seller or RMT account, the best action is to report the message, return it if it still contains the items, and contact support if you are concerned that further action may be taken. We will work with you to secure your account and track the items back to the RMT account(s)."

    In the reddit thread that is causing this controversy (https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/9sxn5y/support_replied_to_200g_stranger_who_tried_to_ban/), the OP returned the gold, but you also took the gold off their account (https://i.imgur.com/Ke76Y3W.jpg). So now that player lost 200 gold due to your mistakes.

    U think anet would even bother to reconcile with that player, after that player sent the reddit community into a mad frenzy, with many embracing trollish tactics, sending RMT to dev accounts becuz they think it's just. If anything, his actions just causes the dev to back off from open communication, and dig in their heels. It's the ultimate "burn the bridge" move.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2018

    @thrag.9740 said:

    @Lumpy.8760 said:

    @Xaina.5418 said:
    @Gaile Gray.6029

    I'm the victim of this RMT scam. A person asked a RMT gold seller to send the RMT gold to my account to actually achieve his goal to get me banned.
    Ticket ID: 7123881 and 7124085

    More details of what happened: https://i.imgur.com/Ke76Y3W.jpg

    Can you please take a look into this issue and tell me if the red flag of RMT purchase is going to be removed from my account? I never did RMT and I never will. I'm a GW1 player for over 11 years and a GW2 player for over 6,5 years since the very first beta. I paid thousands of EUR over the past 6 years on gems/gemstore but I never did RMT.

    You accepted the gold. That's an instant flag. Doesn't matter if you're going to "send it back" you are not innocent in this situation. There was no reason to respond to that account; They were just following a money order from someone who put in your account/character name.

    As per the outlined page above they did as they were told, 'return it'. That page doesn't say it has to be by pressing the, 'return to sender' button, it just says return it, which OP did.

    Additionally if you examine the order of events, youll see OP was actually suppose to accept the gold from their mail, as the gold had already been taken from their account (if you believe the reddit post): https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/9t3w4u/gaile_gray_addresses_the_rmt_policy_on_the_forums/e8toid7/

    They accepted said gold and then returned it there is a return to sender in the mail no need to grab it into account to then send it back.

    Edit
    Do it have to say click the return to sender button instead of accept mail then return?

    If you grab the gold its on your account in said mail its still in limbo.

  • Tiawal.2351Tiawal.2351 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lumpy.8760 said:
    everyone is forgetting that the person who was sent gold ACCEPTED the 200 gold in order to "reply" to the gold seller? There really is no reason to do that. Yes, this is avoidable; do NOT accept the gold!

    Not everyone reads the forums, just plays the game when they got some time. Receiving gold is allowed and could be from anyone, not all of them are RMT attacks. We don't know if that person is related to RMT or not, but that case reveals a scenario that could happen to each of us.

  • This needs a proper solution and quick! This will not go away! People are scared to spend money on the game or socialize with players if a random 3rd party can just easily get them banned/suspended for a long time, spending just a couple $ a few times. Just remove the ability to send Gold or Items entirely for all I care.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2018

    @thrag.9740 said:

    @Lumpy.8760 said:

    @Xaina.5418 said:
    @Gaile Gray.6029

    I'm the victim of this RMT scam. A person asked a RMT gold seller to send the RMT gold to my account to actually achieve his goal to get me banned.
    Ticket ID: 7123881 and 7124085

    More details of what happened: https://i.imgur.com/Ke76Y3W.jpg

    Can you please take a look into this issue and tell me if the red flag of RMT purchase is going to be removed from my account? I never did RMT and I never will. I'm a GW1 player for over 11 years and a GW2 player for over 6,5 years since the very first beta. I paid thousands of EUR over the past 6 years on gems/gemstore but I never did RMT.

    You accepted the gold. That's an instant flag. Doesn't matter if you're going to "send it back" you are not innocent in this situation. There was no reason to respond to that account; They were just following a money order from someone who put in your account/character name.

    As per the outlined page above they did as they were told, 'return it'. That page doesn't say it has to be by pressing the, 'return to sender' button, it just says return it, which OP did.

    Additionally if you examine the order of events, youll see OP was actually suppose to accept the gold from their mail, as the gold had already been taken from their account (if you believe the reddit post): https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/9t3w4u/gaile_gray_addresses_the_rmt_policy_on_the_forums/e8toid7/

    No, the game gives you a direct option so you have to use it. It't not rocket science, it's just an unnecessary step that you shouldn't take for obvious reasons.

    But this is a waste of time, have fun arguing about this silly thing.

    Very passive aggressively chuckling, because I'm totally not mad on the Internet.

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭

    @thrag.9740 said:
    This is tone deaf. Players want to know that a salty player/troll can't just send RMT gold to them to get them banned. Instead of linking to a large page why don't you just answer that question?

    Also your page says, "If you suspect you’ve received items or gold from a gold seller or RMT account, the best action is to report the message, return it if it still contains the items, and contact support if you are concerned that further action may be taken. We will work with you to secure your account and track the items back to the RMT account(s)."

    In the reddit thread that is causing this controversy (https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/9sxn5y/support_replied_to_200g_stranger_who_tried_to_ban/), the OP returned the gold, but you also took the gold off their account (https://i.imgur.com/Ke76Y3W.jpg). So now that player lost 200 gold due to your mistakes.

    Yeah, this is the major problem.

    Guarantee that no one will get banned because of a troll, and this whole issue will be over in 5 seconds.

    But we aren't getting a solution, and this will only become worse and worse.

    It's like the team lives in a bubble, and can't see the world outside burning. Take your community's problems seriously.

    @NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:
    Look, just disable gold/item transfer via mail while you guys sort out the flagging system. It'll hurt in short term, but it'll help in long run.

    It is irresponsible to blame players for clicking on a single button and not being vigilant against malicious attacks. Players should not be in fear since the tools to check whether it is RMT gold lies in ANet's hands, not players like Awesumness. Victim blaming is a sign of weakness in the any system. A 5s check on log before ban should've tell the ANY Human Support that he sent it back. You simply can't let automated system handing out heavy punishments since it is proven time and again that it may be exploited by malicious individuals.

    With all these ban fiasco happened recently me and a lot of my friends have lost most faith on ANet customer support team, and I truly believe we're not the only one in GW2 population. To us it seems like the company handles situation through extremely paternalistic ways without actually working with their customers. You cannot say you care for players if time-convenience of automated system prioritize over countless hours/money players invested on their account. This culture needs to stop.

    Best and easiest solution, just disable it until it's safe again.

    And if you can't make it safe, let players disable mail attachments altogether. I don't want to trade items with other players by mail.

  • mtpelion.4562mtpelion.4562 Member ✭✭✭

    The only place in the RMT policy page that even comes close to referencing actions against an account is here:

    If the account is directly linked to RMT—by way of evidence that amounts to more than just receiving items—it may be subject to further account action.

    Ergo, if a troll buys gold to send to you in an attempt to get you banned, you will **not ** be banned because there is no way to directly link that chain of events to you buying from an RMT.

  • Daddicus.6128Daddicus.6128 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I simply can't understand what everybody is up in arms about. The policy is, in my opinion, nearly perfect. There is no "loophole" unless players have this happening OFTEN. So far, there have been exactly TWO instances of this that we know about (in this thread and the reddit thread). And, the one in this thread was clearly suspended for CORRECT reasons.

    Get a mail from an unknown party containing something quite valuable? Follow the policy and report it. What's so hard to understand about that?

    If you accept the gold or item from someone unknown to you, you fully deserve what you will get: suspended or worse.

    Stop throwing out hypothetical situations as if they're really happening with frequency.

    Gaile, keep up the good work. And, please pass that comment on to the others involved in making and maintaining this policy.

    NOTE: I said "nearly perfect" above. What I mean is I think one should KEEP the email until after the support ticket has been resolved. Report it, keep it, and make sure support knows about it. Then, delete it later (or, let support delete it). But, it's your game, and I accept the policy as it is. This paragraph is just a suggestion.

  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    @Blocki.4931 said:
    No, the game gives you a direct option so you have to use it. It't not rocket science, it's just an unnecessary step that you shouldn't take for obvious reasons.

    But this is a waste of time, have fun arguing about this silly thing.

    Also this quote same response from me below:

    @Linken.6345 said:
    They accepted said gold and then returned it there is a return to sender in the mail no need to grab it into account to then send it back.

    Edit
    Do it have to say click the return to sender button instead of accept mail then return?

    If you grab the gold its on your account in said mail its still in limbo.

    Thats great except both of you are choosing to ignore that Anet took the gold out of OP's wallet before OP accepted that gold, so if OP just hits 'return to sender' or returns it with a response, they are still down 200 gold. I.e following Anet's stated instructions, OP still loses 200 gold.

    Again this is all if you believe the reddit threat, but considering the reddit thread is from a moderately popular player with lots of picture evidence, and ANet's response is a corporate, 'see our TOS', I believe OP over Anet.

  • Taygus.4571Taygus.4571 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daddicus.6128 said:
    I simply can't understand what everybody is up in arms about. The policy is, in my opinion, nearly perfect. There is no "loophole" unless players have this happening OFTEN. So far, there have been exactly TWO instances of this that we know about (in this thread and the reddit thread). And, the one in this thread was clearly suspended for CORRECT reasons.

    Get a mail from an unknown party containing something quite valuable? Follow the policy and report it. What's so hard to understand about that?

    If you accept the gold or item from someone unknown to you, you fully deserve what you will get: suspended or worse.

    Stop throwing out hypothetical situations as if they're really happening with frequency.

    Gaile, keep up the good work. And, please pass that comment on to the others involved in making and maintaining this policy.

    NOTE: I said "nearly perfect" above. What I mean is I think one should KEEP the email until after the support ticket has been resolved. Report it, keep it, and make sure support knows about it. Then, delete it later (or, let support delete it). But, it's your game, and I accept the policy as it is. This paragraph is just a suggestion.

    So people have to be wary of every donation they get?

    I'll post the same question that i asked Gaile..how are we supposed to know that a mail contains RMT?


    They should simply remove any RMT gold(even if it puts accounts in tye negative) and leave it at that.. no risk of ban but if something is RMT, people paid money for nothing...but no major harm done to unsuspecting players.

  • Daddicus.6128Daddicus.6128 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Taygus.4571 said:

    @Daddicus.6128 said:
    I simply can't understand what everybody is up in arms about. The policy is, in my opinion, nearly perfect. There is no "loophole" unless players have this happening OFTEN. So far, there have been exactly TWO instances of this that we know about (in this thread and the reddit thread). And, the one in this thread was clearly suspended for CORRECT reasons.

    Get a mail from an unknown party containing something quite valuable? Follow the policy and report it. What's so hard to understand about that?

    If you accept the gold or item from someone unknown to you, you fully deserve what you will get: suspended or worse.

    Stop throwing out hypothetical situations as if they're really happening with frequency.

    Gaile, keep up the good work. And, please pass that comment on to the others involved in making and maintaining this policy.

    NOTE: I said "nearly perfect" above. What I mean is I think one should KEEP the email until after the support ticket has been resolved. Report it, keep it, and make sure support knows about it. Then, delete it later (or, let support delete it). But, it's your game, and I accept the policy as it is. This paragraph is just a suggestion.

    So people have to be wary of every donation they get?

    I'll post the same question that i asked Gaile..how are we supposed to know that a mail contains RMT?


    They should simply remove any RMT gold(even if it puts accounts in tye negative) and leave it at that.. no risk of ban but if something is RMT, people paid money for nothing...but no major harm done to unsuspecting players.

    Yes, we should be wary of every donation from unknown parties. What's so hard about that? How many "donations" do you receive from unknown people?

    I have NEVER received one from someone I didn't know (except when I did something for someone, like porting to the end of a JP). And, I fully expect I never will. But, if I do, rest assured that support will be contacted BEFORE I accept it.

    And, I fail to understand why anybody would do otherwise.

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.