About our Policy on RMT - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

About our Policy on RMT

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  • Sounds to me like the solution is simple.

    Report every coin you receive by mail for investigation.

    Malicious compliance at its finest.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mtpelion.4562 said:
    The only place in the RMT policy page that even comes close to referencing actions against an account is here:

    If the account is directly linked to RMT—by way of evidence that amounts to more than just receiving items—it may be subject to further account action.

    Ergo, if a troll buys gold to send to you in an attempt to get you banned, you will **not ** be banned because there is no way to directly link that chain of events to you buying from an RMT.

    Shush, people don't care about making sense on this topic

    Very passive aggressively chuckling, because I'm totally not mad on the Internet.

  • Daddicus.6128Daddicus.6128 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Uh, yes, if I have a squad, I know them all. By definition, though, not because they're "friends" or anything. After all, they're in my squad.

    And, I specifically used JP porting as an example of acceptable receipt of goodies. However, there are other actions, like helping someone with an event.

    Any "donation" when there's not a reason is suspicious. It's highly suspicious, in fact.

  • Healix.5819Healix.5819 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The funny thing is, they didn't include trading in GW2 because it was problem in GW1, but by allowing items to be sent through the mail, they only ended up making it easier to scam people, and in this case, the inability to prove their intentions. If GW2 had trading instead of mail attachments, this situation wouldn't be possible since you'd have to actually meet up with the player to trade with them, which leaves an obvious trail for ArenaNet to follow. Trading through the mail makes it possible to filter however, so if they stopped banning for this, they could instead prevent it from ever being received by delaying mail with attachments over a certain value by 1 week to give them enough time to determine if it's RMT or not.

  • Unknown.3976Unknown.3976 Member ✭✭✭

    @Taygus.4571 said:

    @Daddicus.6128 said:

    @Taygus.4571 said:

    @Daddicus.6128 said:
    I simply can't understand what everybody is up in arms about. The policy is, in my opinion, nearly perfect. There is no "loophole" unless players have this happening OFTEN. So far, there have been exactly TWO instances of this that we know about (in this thread and the reddit thread). And, the one in this thread was clearly suspended for CORRECT reasons.

    Get a mail from an unknown party containing something quite valuable? Follow the policy and report it. What's so hard to understand about that?

    If you accept the gold or item from someone unknown to you, you fully deserve what you will get: suspended or worse.

    Stop throwing out hypothetical situations as if they're really happening with frequency.

    Gaile, keep up the good work. And, please pass that comment on to the others involved in making and maintaining this policy.

    NOTE: I said "nearly perfect" above. What I mean is I think one should KEEP the email until after the support ticket has been resolved. Report it, keep it, and make sure support knows about it. Then, delete it later (or, let support delete it). But, it's your game, and I accept the policy as it is. This paragraph is just a suggestion.

    So people have to be wary of every donation they get?

    I'll post the same question that i asked Gaile..how are we supposed to know that a mail contains RMT?


    They should simply remove any RMT gold(even if it puts accounts in tye negative) and leave it at that.. no risk of ban but if something is RMT, people paid money for nothing...but no major harm done to unsuspecting players.

    Yes, we should be wary of every donation from unknown parties. What's so hard about that? How many "donations" do you receive from unknown people?

    I have NEVER received one from someone I didn't know (except when I did something for someone, like porting to the end of a JP). And, I fully expect I never will. But, if I do, rest assured that support will be contacted BEFORE I accept it.

    And, I fail to understand why anybody would do otherwise.

    Loads from jp porting actually.

    WvW comms and HP run comms also recieve alot and often quite high in value.... do you really know every player im your squad?

    Then there's streamers who recieve quite a bit as well.

    Why should we be afraid to lose out accounts because some jerk decided to send RMT? Thats not good policy, why are you defending it?

    But no one lost their account to this manner of griefing, Europaea (the OP on reddit) wasn't even banned, this matter is way overblown. It's fearmongering, mass hysteria started by one man, just one man.

  • I've never investigated an RMT site, but can you buy Gold in amounts under 100? Under 200? Under 50? If not, how or why would one be concerned about receiving 1 Gold, 5 Gold, 20 Gold? Even if it was from someone you did not know?
    If the proposition is that someone would buy the RMT Gold and have it sent to their own account, so they can split it up, and send a small amount to your account, well, then that would be kind of silly on their part, risking their own account, no?
    It seems far-fetched to say one would have to worry about receiving tips from portaling in JPs.

  • Or simplier dont trust mail from people you dont know.

  • This unfortunately is just PR fluff and does nothing to address what happened nor resolves the flaw in your CS loop. I won't be logging into Guild Wars 2 nor buying future products again until this is resolved.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @CensoredOtaku.5432 said:
    This unfortunately is just PR fluff and does nothing to address what happened nor resolves the flaw in your CS loop. I won't be logging into Guild Wars 2 nor buying future products again until this is resolved.

    There's no loop though

    Very passive aggressively chuckling, because I'm totally not mad on the Internet.

  • Taygus.4571Taygus.4571 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2018

    @Daddicus.6128 said:
    Uh, yes, if I have a squad, I know them all. By definition,

    I take it you don't do public squads?
    I find it hard to believe that someone could run a squad of 50 for say HP run and care to remember everyone in it... what about a week later, would you still remember?
    And even if you could, do you really think it's the norm.

    Ive sent gold to comms weeks after following them because I didn't have the gold at the time..should these comms be wary of receiving "random" gold because it was 2 weeks after the run?

    What about streamers? who are known to receieve alot.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Taygus.4571 said:

    @Unknown.3976 said:

    @Taygus.4571 said:

    @Daddicus.6128 said:

    @Taygus.4571 said:

    @Daddicus.6128 said:
    I simply can't understand what everybody is up in arms about. The policy is, in my opinion, nearly perfect. There is no "loophole" unless players have this happening OFTEN. So far, there have been exactly TWO instances of this that we know about (in this thread and the reddit thread). And, the one in this thread was clearly suspended for CORRECT reasons.

    Get a mail from an unknown party containing something quite valuable? Follow the policy and report it. What's so hard to understand about that?

    If you accept the gold or item from someone unknown to you, you fully deserve what you will get: suspended or worse.

    Stop throwing out hypothetical situations as if they're really happening with frequency.

    Gaile, keep up the good work. And, please pass that comment on to the others involved in making and maintaining this policy.

    NOTE: I said "nearly perfect" above. What I mean is I think one should KEEP the email until after the support ticket has been resolved. Report it, keep it, and make sure support knows about it. Then, delete it later (or, let support delete it). But, it's your game, and I accept the policy as it is. This paragraph is just a suggestion.

    So people have to be wary of every donation they get?

    I'll post the same question that i asked Gaile..how are we supposed to know that a mail contains RMT?


    They should simply remove any RMT gold(even if it puts accounts in tye negative) and leave it at that.. no risk of ban but if something is RMT, people paid money for nothing...but no major harm done to unsuspecting players.

    Yes, we should be wary of every donation from unknown parties. What's so hard about that? How many "donations" do you receive from unknown people?

    I have NEVER received one from someone I didn't know (except when I did something for someone, like porting to the end of a JP). And, I fully expect I never will. But, if I do, rest assured that support will be contacted BEFORE I accept it.

    And, I fail to understand why anybody would do otherwise.

    Loads from jp porting actually.

    WvW comms and HP run comms also recieve alot and often quite high in value.... do you really know every player im your squad?

    Then there's streamers who recieve quite a bit as well.

    Why should we be afraid to lose out accounts because some jerk decided to send RMT? Thats not good policy, why are you defending it?

    But no one lost their account to this manner of griefing, Europaea (the OP on reddit) wasn't even banned, this matter is way overblown. It's fearmongering, mass hysteria started by one man, just one man.

    But if the griefer sends another RMT to him, he could be, that's kinda the point here. Anet Support have said as much and have not denied it.

    No, that's simply not true.

    And to top it off he just has to reject any mails with gold he didn't ask for, it's not hard.

    Very passive aggressively chuckling, because I'm totally not mad on the Internet.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @thrag.9740 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:
    No, the game gives you a direct option so you have to use it. It't not rocket science, it's just an unnecessary step that you shouldn't take for obvious reasons.

    But this is a waste of time, have fun arguing about this silly thing.

    Also this quote same response from me below:

    @Linken.6345 said:
    They accepted said gold and then returned it there is a return to sender in the mail no need to grab it into account to then send it back.

    Edit
    Do it have to say click the return to sender button instead of accept mail then return?

    If you grab the gold its on your account in said mail its still in limbo.

    Thats great except both of you are choosing to ignore that Anet took the gold out of OP's wallet before OP accepted that gold, so if OP just hits 'return to sender' or returns it with a response, they are still down 200 gold. I.e following Anet's stated instructions, OP still loses 200 gold.

    Again this is all if you believe the reddit threat, but considering the reddit thread is from a moderately popular player with lots of picture evidence, and ANet's response is a corporate, 'see our TOS', I believe OP over Anet.

    Noted I missed that if anet did so they should return since they can see in logs the person returned the gold to sender, even tho they did it the wrong way by accepting then returning instead off return to sender straight away.

  • @Unknown.3976 said:
    But no one lost their account to this manner of griefing, Europaea (the OP on reddit) wasn't even banned, this matter is way overblown. It's fearmongering, mass hysteria started by one man, just one man.

    Overblown? Perhaps a smidge. But it shows the flaw in their system where their CS staff doesn't have proper documentation on how to handle situations regarding this exploit. Without a properly trained staff people get stuck in loops unfairly.

  • Taygus.4571Taygus.4571 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Taygus.4571 said:

    @Unknown.3976 said:

    @Taygus.4571 said:

    @Daddicus.6128 said:

    @Taygus.4571 said:

    @Daddicus.6128 said:
    I simply can't understand what everybody is up in arms about. The policy is, in my opinion, nearly perfect. There is no "loophole" unless players have this happening OFTEN. So far, there have been exactly TWO instances of this that we know about (in this thread and the reddit thread). And, the one in this thread was clearly suspended for CORRECT reasons.

    Get a mail from an unknown party containing something quite valuable? Follow the policy and report it. What's so hard to understand about that?

    If you accept the gold or item from someone unknown to you, you fully deserve what you will get: suspended or worse.

    Stop throwing out hypothetical situations as if they're really happening with frequency.

    Gaile, keep up the good work. And, please pass that comment on to the others involved in making and maintaining this policy.

    NOTE: I said "nearly perfect" above. What I mean is I think one should KEEP the email until after the support ticket has been resolved. Report it, keep it, and make sure support knows about it. Then, delete it later (or, let support delete it). But, it's your game, and I accept the policy as it is. This paragraph is just a suggestion.

    So people have to be wary of every donation they get?

    I'll post the same question that i asked Gaile..how are we supposed to know that a mail contains RMT?


    They should simply remove any RMT gold(even if it puts accounts in tye negative) and leave it at that.. no risk of ban but if something is RMT, people paid money for nothing...but no major harm done to unsuspecting players.

    Yes, we should be wary of every donation from unknown parties. What's so hard about that? How many "donations" do you receive from unknown people?

    I have NEVER received one from someone I didn't know (except when I did something for someone, like porting to the end of a JP). And, I fully expect I never will. But, if I do, rest assured that support will be contacted BEFORE I accept it.

    And, I fail to understand why anybody would do otherwise.

    Loads from jp porting actually.

    WvW comms and HP run comms also recieve alot and often quite high in value.... do you really know every player im your squad?

    Then there's streamers who recieve quite a bit as well.

    Why should we be afraid to lose out accounts because some jerk decided to send RMT? Thats not good policy, why are you defending it?

    But no one lost their account to this manner of griefing, Europaea (the OP on reddit) wasn't even banned, this matter is way overblown. It's fearmongering, mass hysteria started by one man, just one man.

    But if the griefer sends another RMT to him, he could be, that's kinda the point here. Anet Support have said as much and have not denied it.

    No, that's simply not true.

    And to top it off he just has to reject any mails with gold he didn't ask for, it's not hard.

    But if we believe him and Anet hasn't denied his claims.(lile they have with other pwople in the past)..
    they warned him before he even knew about the gold....

    They then told him to avoid it in the future.
    And that if it reoccured he risked a ban.

    How do you avoid being mailed RMT gold?..... you don't.

    That should not be sufficient enough to flag an account.

  • This is way overblown and such a non issue it is crazy. I am not saying Anets policy is perfect by any means but it is fine. The fact of the matter is none of the people who brought up the issue got perma banned. They are all playing the game still or have an account that is not banned that is able to play the game.

    Looking at RMT sites for 200G they would have to pay around 10 USD for 200 gold(that isn't including tax or other fees that may be charged). Not many people are going to spend 10 bucks to troll someone.

    Which brings me to my next point. Yes you are fine if someone sends you small amounts of gold for tips. Why? Anet doesn't care and those small amounts don't throw of a warning. You may ask to yourself why? Because you can easily farm over 20 gold in an hour if you wanted, especially now with the Halloween event, etc. 200 gold I am sure does. It isn't a small amount of money to the majority of the community.

    It got accepted they got flagged and slapped on the wrist and are fine.

    This is such a non issue that it is crazy. Even this now being widely known because of the hella threads about it, players are not going to go dropping 10 bucks just to troll random people. Or it will be painfully obvious if you get large amounts of gold in your mail from people you don't know or you don't actively command etc.

    Non issue. Log in and play and like you already kitten should trust people you know.

  • Dedicant.6820Dedicant.6820 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2018

    Here's two examples of people who've received punishments for this type of thing and they are years old so this may not be such an isolated incident and there could be more out there. Both people claim to have not purchased the gold or even accepted it yet were punished and called out for trying to fix the issue. Obviously it's hard to tell if they're telling the truth and they were also impacted by a flaw in the punishment system or if they are lying after getting caught. Both people claim to have never accepted the items/gold yet were punished anyway. I can't help but find it a little worrying as we have no power to defend ourselves from sanctions, black marks on our account and eventually being banned as both situations ended with that threat. "I would suggest not doing any more RMT transactions if you value your account" and "Further incidents will not result in leniency." I know I'd feel a lot better if we were assured there would be no punishment upon receiving RMT in the mail rather upon accepting the contents within.

    https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/support/I-m-getting-suspended-while-being-inactive/page/1

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/36fv17/warning_do_not_respond_to_scammers/

  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:
    Noted I missed that if anet did so they should return since they can see in logs the person returned the gold to sender, even tho they did it the wrong way by accepting then returning instead off return to sender straight away.

    Hey man everyone misreads sometimes, thanks for being big enough to acknowledge it.

  • Taygus.4571Taygus.4571 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2018

    Finally a clarification that just receiving the gold will not flag the account, but accepting it will.

    This is all most commentors wanted.

  • Lascax.2163Lascax.2163 Member ✭✭
    edited November 1, 2018

    Just wanted to say that I'm glad the case at hand was resolved that way. Btw I think that even if it was a private issue, you could've generally addressed how you generally would handle a similar case to avoid the continued rage to the non-response. I feel like there's some communication gap that still needs to be fixed and I hope it will be in the future.

  • Daddicus.6128Daddicus.6128 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Taygus.4571 said:

    @Unknown.3976 said:

    @Taygus.4571 said:

    @Daddicus.6128 said:

    @Taygus.4571 said:

    @Daddicus.6128 said:
    I simply can't understand what everybody is up in arms about. The policy is, in my opinion, nearly perfect. There is no "loophole" unless players have this happening OFTEN. So far, there have been exactly TWO instances of this that we know about (in this thread and the reddit thread). And, the one in this thread was clearly suspended for CORRECT reasons.

    Get a mail from an unknown party containing something quite valuable? Follow the policy and report it. What's so hard to understand about that?

    If you accept the gold or item from someone unknown to you, you fully deserve what you will get: suspended or worse.

    Stop throwing out hypothetical situations as if they're really happening with frequency.

    Gaile, keep up the good work. And, please pass that comment on to the others involved in making and maintaining this policy.

    NOTE: I said "nearly perfect" above. What I mean is I think one should KEEP the email until after the support ticket has been resolved. Report it, keep it, and make sure support knows about it. Then, delete it later (or, let support delete it). But, it's your game, and I accept the policy as it is. This paragraph is just a suggestion.

    So people have to be wary of every donation they get?

    I'll post the same question that i asked Gaile..how are we supposed to know that a mail contains RMT?


    They should simply remove any RMT gold(even if it puts accounts in tye negative) and leave it at that.. no risk of ban but if something is RMT, people paid money for nothing...but no major harm done to unsuspecting players.

    Yes, we should be wary of every donation from unknown parties. What's so hard about that? How many "donations" do you receive from unknown people?

    I have NEVER received one from someone I didn't know (except when I did something for someone, like porting to the end of a JP). And, I fully expect I never will. But, if I do, rest assured that support will be contacted BEFORE I accept it.

    And, I fail to understand why anybody would do otherwise.

    Loads from jp porting actually.

    WvW comms and HP run comms also recieve alot and often quite high in value.... do you really know every player im your squad?

    Then there's streamers who recieve quite a bit as well.

    Why should we be afraid to lose out accounts because some jerk decided to send RMT? Thats not good policy, why are you defending it?

    But no one lost their account to this manner of griefing, Europaea (the OP on reddit) wasn't even banned, this matter is way overblown. It's fearmongering, mass hysteria started by one man, just one man.

    But if the griefer sends another RMT to him, he could be, that's kinda the point here. Anet Support have said as much and have not denied it.

    ONLY if he accepts it. As I said above, this is very simple: contact support immediately.

  • Daddicus.6128Daddicus.6128 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dedicant.6820 said:
    Here's two examples of people who've received punishments for this type of thing and they are years old so this may not be such an isolated incident and there could be more out there. Both people claim to have not purchased the gold or even accepted it yet were punished and called out for trying to fix the issue. Obviously it's hard to tell if they're telling the truth and they were also impacted by a flaw in the punishment system or if they are lying after getting caught. Both people claim to have never accepted the items/gold yet were punished anyway. I can't help but find it a little worrying as we have no power to defend ourselves from sanctions, black marks on our account and eventually being banned as both situations ended with that threat. "I would suggest not doing any more RMT transactions if you value your account" and "Further incidents will not result in leniency." I know I'd feel a lot better if we were assured there would be no punishment upon receiving RMT in the mail rather upon accepting the contents within.

    https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/support/I-m-getting-suspended-while-being-inactive/page/1

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/36fv17/warning_do_not_respond_to_scammers/

    It's hard for US to tell, but it's easy for ANet to tell. So, I believe ANet. Their track record of integrity is pretty darned good. (Their track record on communication … not so good, but this thread is one step in the right direction as communication goes.)

  • Daddicus.6128Daddicus.6128 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    Here's some additional info about our RMT policy: We do not suspend (or “ban”) accounts for receiving RMT gold or items. We seem to have two questions about deliveries: “Will my account be banned or suspended for accepting gold or items that came from an RMT company?” and “Can someone grief me by sending me an RMT delivery, hoping that I will be suspended?” As the RMT policy states, there are several steps that our Customer Support Team may take if someone receives gold or items from an RMT company. For instance, the gold or items usually will be removed from the account. However, account suspensions are not part of the normal process for handling RMT deliveries. So the answer to both questions above is “No, that will not happen.”

    The RMT Policy includes tips on what to do if you receive an unexpected delivery, including simply choosing “Return to sender” for any deliveries from an unknown or unexpected source. It also explains that if you accept delivery of something that came from an RMT, the received gold or items probably will be removed from your account at some point. That could happen whether you ordered from RMT or someone else ordered and had it delivered to you. But again, the account itself is not suspended or banned.

    I hope that this info puts your mind at rest. We do our best to curtail RMT activities because RMT companies are the largest perpetrators of account theft around, and we want to protect our players. We built the Trading Post with the same purpose in mind: To allow sales or exchanges of gold or items in a safe environment. So please don’t buy from RMT companies and please do use the Trading Post. Taking that advice really will help everyone, player and company alike.

    Thanks, Gaile!

    I thought the policy was clear enough, but as usual, you have gone the extra mile in clarifying. My hat's off to you and the whole team.

  • Thank you.

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    Here's some additional info about our RMT policy: We do not suspend (or “ban”) accounts for receiving RMT gold or items.

    Let's hope all supports remember this part.

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    Here's some additional info about our RMT policy: We do not suspend (or “ban”) accounts for receiving RMT gold or items. We seem to have two questions about deliveries: “Will my account be banned or suspended for accepting gold or items that came from an RMT company?” and “Can someone grief me by sending me an RMT delivery, hoping that I will be suspended?” As the RMT policy states, there are several steps that our Customer Support Team may take if someone receives gold or items from an RMT company. For instance, the gold or items usually will be removed from the account. However, account suspensions are not part of the normal process for handling RMT deliveries. So the answer to both questions above is “No, that will not happen.”

    The RMT Policy includes tips on what to do if you receive an unexpected delivery, including simply choosing “Return to sender” for any deliveries from an unknown or unexpected source. It also explains that if you accept delivery of something that came from an RMT, the received gold or items probably will be removed from your account at some point. That could happen whether you ordered from RMT or someone else ordered and had it delivered to you. But again, the account itself is not suspended or banned.

    I hope that this info puts your mind at rest. We do our best to curtail RMT activities because RMT companies are the largest perpetrators of account theft around, and we want to protect our players. We built the Trading Post with the same purpose in mind: To allow sales or exchanges of gold or items in a safe environment. So please don’t buy from RMT companies and please do use the Trading Post. Taking that advice really will help everyone, player and company alike.

    Good to know for sure, thanks for the clarification.
    One thing that does still itch in my skull though.. and likely others... is there truth in the recent reddit posts where the poster was apparently warned while asleep for the mail then upon opening received further penalising ( at least that is what I recall was the crux of the original forum tension), though tbh I never looked to deep into the discussion surrounding the issue beyond the GW2 forums. Just that you mention it's not normal practice or account suspensions when handling RMT deliveries.

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • DeanBB.4268DeanBB.4268 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lumpy.8760 said:
    everyone is forgetting that the person who was sent gold ACCEPTED the 200 gold in order to "reply" to the gold seller? There really is no reason to do that. Yes, this is avoidable; do NOT accept the gold!

    While I'm not afraid of someone griefing me, since I don't really participate in game activities that would lead to such, I do have multiple accounts that accumulate gold and mail it to my main. That's from selling Mystic Coins and cashing in Laurels, so can add up. And I regularly send stuff to my main, plus get the two in-game deliveries from my Home Instance. So every day I'm going through mail and just accepting everything there, since I'm just mailing to myself. I assume. So I really am quite likely to blindly accept anything in my in-box.

    So "don't accept mail" is no solution to this, in my view. But it sounds like Anet is being careful in what they do, so no worries.

    X__________________________
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  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2018

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:
    One thing that does still itch in my skull though.. and likely others... is there truth in the recent reddit posts where the poster was apparently warned while asleep for the mail then upon opening received further penalising ( at least that is what I recall was the crux of the original forum tension), though tbh I never looked to deep into the discussion surrounding the issue beyond the GW2 forums. Just that you mention it's not normal practice or account suspensions when handling RMT deliveries.

    The original RMT policy did say that you would be penalized for receiving ill-gotten gold/objects. Most likely they haven't thought of the possibility of someone spending real cash to grief someone else then. All the cases mentioned on reddit/forums happened under that previous policy.

    The one we have now is a recent (very recent - as in "yesterday") change.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    Here's some additional info about our RMT policy: We do not suspend (or “ban”) accounts for receiving RMT gold or items. We seem to have two questions about deliveries: “Will my account be banned or suspended for accepting gold or items that came from an RMT company?” and “Can someone grief me by sending me an RMT delivery, hoping that I will be suspended?” As the RMT policy states, there are several steps that our Customer Support Team may take if someone receives gold or items from an RMT company. For instance, the gold or items usually will be removed from the account. However, account suspensions are not part of the normal process for handling RMT deliveries. So the answer to both questions above is “No, that will not happen.”

    The RMT Policy includes tips on what to do if you receive an unexpected delivery, including simply choosing “Return to sender” for any deliveries from an unknown or unexpected source. It also explains that if you accept delivery of something that came from an RMT, the received gold or items probably will be removed from your account at some point. That could happen whether you ordered from RMT or someone else ordered and had it delivered to you. But again, the account itself is not suspended or banned.

    I hope that this info puts your mind at rest. We do our best to curtail RMT activities because RMT companies are the largest perpetrators of account theft around, and we want to protect our players. We built the Trading Post with the same purpose in mind: To allow sales or exchanges of gold or items in a safe environment. So please don’t buy from RMT companies and please do use the Trading Post. Taking that advice really will help everyone, player and company alike.

    This is what I believe most of us were hoping to see. Clear and reassuring.

    It will probably not be enough for a few people, but I presume it should be more enough for most. And it will be something to link in case someone tries to funnel the flames on the issue.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I belive this would have happened even with out the wolf cry from the personin question, sadly we will never know.

  • Dedicant.6820Dedicant.6820 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2018

    @Daddicus.6128 said:
    It's hard for US to tell, but it's easy for ANet to tell. So, I believe ANet. Their track record of integrity is pretty darned good. (Their track record on communication … not so good, but this thread is one step in the right direction as communication goes.)

    Except in this case anet support was wrong in punishing this account and had to apologise and face a huge controversy on reddit and elsewhere. If it's easy for them to tell someone messed up big then. I'm glad that the issue was brought up so that the punishment was retracted especially since it may have only worked out favourably for them and any future victims because of said drama. Especially considering on one of the past examples I linked anet explicitly said the punishment was maintained on their "assumption" that rmt griefing did not exist and yet here there is an example of it. It's a shame that account never got this level of publicity on their punishment.

  • Zeivu.3615Zeivu.3615 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2018

    @omgdracula.6345 said:
    This is way overblown and such a non issue it is crazy. I am not saying Anets policy is perfect by any means but it is fine. The fact of the matter is none of the people who brought up the issue got perma banned. They are all playing the game still or have an account that is not banned that is able to play the game.

    Looking at RMT sites for 200G they would have to pay around 10 USD for 200 gold(that isn't including tax or other fees that may be charged). Not many people are going to spend 10 bucks to troll someone.

    Which brings me to my next point. Yes you are fine if someone sends you small amounts of gold for tips. Why? Anet doesn't care and those small amounts don't throw of a warning. You may ask to yourself why? Because you can easily farm over 20 gold in an hour if you wanted, especially now with the Halloween event, etc. 200 gold I am sure does. It isn't a small amount of money to the majority of the community.

    It got accepted they got flagged and slapped on the wrist and are fine.

    This is such a non issue that it is crazy. Even this now being widely known because of the hella threads about it, players are not going to go dropping 10 bucks just to troll random people. Or it will be painfully obvious if you get large amounts of gold in your mail from people you don't know or you don't actively command etc.

    Non issue. Log in and play and like you already kitten should trust people you know.

    I don't know where you live, but 10 bucks has almost little value thanks to the removal of the Gold Standard and Minimum Wage hikes. There are sociopaths who will do it and can afford to do it several times a month, if they want you to suffer badly. In my state, we are required to give that an hour.

    I really do hope that they have the tools and the know-how to link or debunk griefing and legitimate purchases regarding RMT.

  • Karaha.3290Karaha.3290 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Karaha.3290 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:
    Hi @Gaile Gray.6029, thanks for posting this.

    The concern right now is that sometimes people will use RMT and buy gold for somebody else's account in attempts to try and get them banned. How does the ANet support team plan to address this issue so that the uninformed are not targeted or penalized by this kind of behavior as well? What assurances do we have from the support team?


    Context for those who are unaware of what has been happening: https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/9d7orp/how_to_get_someone_banned_for_less_than_3/?st=jnxsx4dd&sh=df055dc4

    They wrote about it in the updated policy.

    If you suspect you’ve received items or gold from a gold seller or RMT account, the best action is to report the message, return it if it still contains the items, and contact support if you are concerned that further action may be taken. We will work with you to secure your account and track the items back to the RMT account(s).

    But let's say you're an average GW2 user who doesn't read either this forum or the Reddit. How are you to know it isn't one of your guildies or friends paying you back for something? Most people get money in the mail and they'll happily take it without a second thought.

    Some users on reddit have reported receiving bans before even checking their mail, let alone accepting the money.

    I think you would know the name of your friend or guild mate who borrowed gold from you.
    But I also think you are right in general. I remember when a guy from map chat sent me 50g (cause i was complaining in a funny way about something) and I took it without any thought. I haven't even checked the name.
    On the other hand, every now and then, when I get some Junk (minis, festival items, and so on), I make bundles out of it (low lvl food, a mini and/or tonics and 2-5 gold) and send them to new players, just as an welcome present.
    It would be sad to get them back, only because these new players are afraid that it could be an RMT mail.

  • Leaa.2943Leaa.2943 Member ✭✭

    Thanks for clearing all the worries from the players i appreciate you took the time to do so :)

  • Daddicus.6128Daddicus.6128 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dedicant.6820 said:

    @Daddicus.6128 said:
    It's hard for US to tell, but it's easy for ANet to tell. So, I believe ANet. Their track record of integrity is pretty darned good. (Their track record on communication … not so good, but this thread is one step in the right direction as communication goes.)

    Except in this case anet support was wrong in punishing this account and had to apologise and face a huge controversy on reddit and elsewhere. If it's easy for them to tell someone messed up big then. I'm glad that the issue was brought up so that the punishment was retracted especially since it may have only worked out favourably for them and any future victims because of said drama. Especially considering on one of the past examples I linked anet explicitly said the punishment was maintained on their "assumption" that rmt griefing did not exist and yet here there is an example of it. It's a shame that account never got this level of publicity on their punishment.

    That may be, but we're not talking about the OLD policy. We're talking about the subject of this thread, which is the NEW policy. And that was very clear; Gaile did not need to clarify, except for the fact that people simply weren't reading it carefully enough.

    But, I'm glad she did. Perhaps now people can get back to gaming instead of inventing scenarios that don't exist.

  • Daddicus.6128Daddicus.6128 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zeivu.3615 said:
    I really do hope that they have the tools and the know-how to link or debunk griefing and legitimate purchases regarding RMT.

    They already know that the sender is bogus, or they wouldn't be investigating. With the policy as stated, the worst that can happen is the money is removed twice (once by ANet and also by the player, at roughly the same time). In that case, they would return it. They bend over backwards to right wrongs that are their fault.

  • Daddicus.6128Daddicus.6128 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Karaha.3290 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Karaha.3290 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:
    Hi @Gaile Gray.6029, thanks for posting this.

    The concern right now is that sometimes people will use RMT and buy gold for somebody else's account in attempts to try and get them banned. How does the ANet support team plan to address this issue so that the uninformed are not targeted or penalized by this kind of behavior as well? What assurances do we have from the support team?


    Context for those who are unaware of what has been happening: https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/9d7orp/how_to_get_someone_banned_for_less_than_3/?st=jnxsx4dd&sh=df055dc4

    They wrote about it in the updated policy.

    If you suspect you’ve received items or gold from a gold seller or RMT account, the best action is to report the message, return it if it still contains the items, and contact support if you are concerned that further action may be taken. We will work with you to secure your account and track the items back to the RMT account(s).

    But let's say you're an average GW2 user who doesn't read either this forum or the Reddit. How are you to know it isn't one of your guildies or friends paying you back for something? Most people get money in the mail and they'll happily take it without a second thought.

    Some users on reddit have reported receiving bans before even checking their mail, let alone accepting the money.

    I think you would know the name of your friend or guild mate who borrowed gold from you.
    But I also think you are right in general. I remember when a guy from map chat sent me 50g (cause i was complaining in a funny way about something) and I took it without any thought. I haven't even checked the name.
    On the other hand, every now and then, when I get some Junk (minis, festival items, and so on), I make bundles out of it (low lvl food, a mini and/or tonics and 2-5 gold) and send them to new players, just as an welcome present.
    It would be sad to get them back, only because these new players are afraid that it could be an RMT mail.

    This could be a real issue. In fact, it has a parallel in the real world: phishing schemes.

    So, how does an email sender avoid the recipient possibly thinking (in real life) it's phishing?

    Simple: send two emails. The first explains why, and the second includes the item. I do it several times a week in my job.

    The same would help in a game world.

  • @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    So the answer to both questions above is “No, that will not happen.”

    >

    Thank you!

  • Tiawal.2351Tiawal.2351 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 2, 2018

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    Here's some additional info about our RMT policy: We do not suspend (or “ban”) accounts for receiving RMT gold or items. We seem to have two questions about deliveries: “Will my account be banned or suspended for accepting gold or items that came from an RMT company?” and “Can someone grief me by sending me an RMT delivery, hoping that I will be suspended?” As the RMT policy states, there are several steps that our Customer Support Team may take if someone receives gold or items from an RMT company. For instance, the gold or items usually will be removed from the account. However, account suspensions are not part of the normal process for handling RMT deliveries. So the answer to both questions above is “No, that will not happen.”

    The RMT Policy includes tips on what to do if you receive an unexpected delivery, including simply choosing “Return to sender” for any deliveries from an unknown or unexpected source. It also explains that if you accept delivery of something that came from an RMT, the received gold or items probably will be removed from your account at some point. That could happen whether you ordered from RMT or someone else ordered and had it delivered to you. But again, the account itself is not suspended or banned.

    I hope that this info puts your mind at rest. We do our best to curtail RMT activities because RMT companies are the largest perpetrators of account theft around, and we want to protect our players. We built the Trading Post with the same purpose in mind: To allow sales or exchanges of gold or items in a safe environment. So please don’t buy from RMT companies and please do use the Trading Post. Taking that advice really will help everyone, player and company alike.

    Thanks for the answers and the update to RMT policy, which still needs better wording:
    "If the account is directly linked to RMT—by way of evidence that amounts to more than just receiving items" it's not quite clear, but Lead GM Magister already explained it better "that is, if evidence is found that the account is further distributing or storing wealth for such purposes."

    The next part of the same explanation both gives peace of mind to those not involved in RMT buying, but it is also a potential victory for RMT gold buyers - and they shouldn't be encouraged at all, buyers are just as guilty as gold sellers:
    "Simply receiving gold from RMT is not enough to warrant an account action, though users who do accept this gold may receive a cautionary message that simply warns against the dangers of buying gold and items via real money traders"
    This should be changed to something like "Accepting gold from RMT could lead to suspension (not ban) of your account, that will last until the situation is clarified", because some may receive such gold while on a 1 year break from GW2 for example, so they can react when they return. There are gold buyers out there, not everyone is just a victim of such attacks. Just rather let guilty players get away, than keep everyone worried about losing their account.

    ArenaNet did great job of limiting and almost eliminating RMT in GW2. Those of you who played few years ago, 3+ or more, may remember the constant gold seller spam in map chat, then later followed in whisper chat; almost all of those are gone now. The in-game tools of block & reporting them were also great, I miss them in many other games, where RMT still dominates the chat channels. The war against the RMT shouldn't stop, and buyers are just as guilty as sellers, without buyers RMT wouldn't exist.

    We should just make sure innocent people can play without fear, but RMT buyers shouldn't get away easily: they hurting not just the game company, but everyone playing the game. There must be ways to make certain that someone is a buyer, and not just a victim of an attack, and a Mail filter option would go a long way helping the team see who is open to receiving RMT and who is against.

    We don't want RMT back, please take care of them, because so far what you did had great results. Thank You for that!

    P.S. / Edit: I know that accepting RMT gold and doing this repeatedly WILL lead to actions (including ban), but the updated RMT policy also should say that clearly, because right now doesn't, and while "We do not suspend (or “ban”) accounts for receiving RMT gold or items" sounds great, shouldn't look like green light for RMT buyers. The RMT policy just needs further clarification and rework.

  • Inculpatus cedo.9234Inculpatus cedo.9234 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2018

    Even if their accounts aren't suspended or terminated, what good does it do 'buyers' if their ill-gotten gains are removed each time? Would seem like a waste of money after once or twice.

  • Boogiepop Void.6473Boogiepop Void.6473 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 3, 2018

    Last time I was in game someone threatened to "send [me] some gold and get [me] banned, you [EXPLETIVES DELETED]". Since the ban process is apparently applied to victims and has no recourse, I am scared to log into my account on which I have several hundred dollars and who knows how many hours invested. What am I supposed to do to protect myself? ANet is saying they want "proof" that you didn't buy RMT gold, but you can't prove a negative. If I can't defend myself I have no choice not to play at all until a method of defense is implemented.

  • Or more simply: that's not a thing. It was an empty threat (which you can report if you still have the mail/screenshots).

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Send the person the link to the thread saying you won’t get banned and a link to the game rules about threats and harassment and tell them if you get gold from a gold seller then you’ll report them for harassment. Then block them. That should cool their jets.

    Be careful what you ask for
    ANet might give it to you.

    Forum Guides: Images. Text

  • rng.1024rng.1024 Member ✭✭✭✭

    No reason to worry. As stated above, unless the other person has your account password they can only send the gold via the in-game mail, just make sure you return to sender without receiving any attachments. Should there still be action taken to suspend your account, you're still free to open a ticket about it to explain your side of the story.

    Anyone claiming otherwise have been found guilty and try to wash their name clean - as long as you don't accept high value items through mail, and make sure to specify purity of intent when sending said items, there's nothing to worry about. Of course it's not a foolproof system, but it's a far cry from what the "bullies" want you to believe.

  • Danikat.8537Danikat.8537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    On a related note if anyone threatens to deliberately get you banned you can report them for verbal abuse.

    Nothing will happen immediately, so you'll probably want to block them too, but it will alert Anet to the threats and then they can take whatever action they think is appropriate.

    Danielle Aurorel - Desolation EU. Mini Collector.

    "I know that I'm born and I know that I'll die, the in-between is mine."

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