Why are necromancers minions and engineers turret skills not reworked — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Why are necromancers minions and engineers turret skills not reworked

toucan.6358toucan.6358 Member ✭✭
edited October 28, 2018 in Professions

Why do Anet not rework these skills so they cant be used for afk farming. Right now engineers are using turrets because they autimatically attack nearby targets and can easily be refreshed. Necromancer minions are often used by necro afk farmers because their support and tagging of monsters. They are also pretty much left out of 2 gamemodes for their low health pool during fights.

Anet have reworked other skills to make them more interesting, sometimes for the better and sometimes for worse.

PVP:
Minions die so fast in pvp
turret engi were a thing back in the days but were nerfed

WVW:
They die on any clash between 2 zergs
turrets die on any clash between 2 zergs

Fractals/Raids:
Elite minion often used for the CC
Blood fiend is used for its blind commonly used by condi spec

Reworking these spells would make it harder to afk farm and would make the otherwise dull spells more interesting. Anyone agree with me? what would u do to make them more interesting? or would you leave them like they are.

Comments

  • @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    They have changed both types of "pets" a few times in the past. For example, turrets used to never despawn; now they do, so they cannot actually be used to AFK farm (the player must do something to re-summon them).

    I don't think that every skill needs to be useful in every game mode. I think it's cool if they are, but as long as there are multiple options for builds, I think it's a distraction to worry about whether summoned pets are always helpful.

    Plus, minions are already incredibly useful (if not overpowered) in PvE content. They have a strong niche for a certain play style. Engineers have all sorts of interesting builds these days, even without turrets.

    And finally, I really don't want ANet to spend time worrying about skills used for farming; I want them to focus their attention on those of us who actively play the game. Inattentive farming just looks bad; it doesn't do much in terms of actual value (in fact, there are other low-effort ways to earn more). True AFK farming is rarer than most people think & there are already tools to deal with it.


    I'm not against changes to these things; I just don't see them as a priority.

    Yeah minions seem so strong in casual pve, they give you health if you run blood magic, and they keep the enemies occupied. Necro staff
    gotta be the weapon with the most dull skillset of all weapons in the game imo, I hope they are looking to rework it.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm getting in on this topic because this is exactly the response I feared was eventually going to come from the community about these annoying AFK farmers.

    I love Ranger and Ranger pets and I love Necromancer and it's Minion mechanics, and as someone who loves these elements of GW2 it infuriates me to see them being abused in this way by other players.
    I don't want to see these mechanics changed because I love how they work and i enjoy using builds that make use of the mechanics for legitimate playing.

    So rather than call for these things to be changed to prevent abuse by AFK farmers.. I'm going to say screw the AFK farmers and cast my vote for Anet to start permabanning these players instead as they should have done from the start.

    Sorry but when it comes down to that choice I don't care about these AFK players, I care about everyone else in the game who enjoys these mechanics and doesn't abuse them in this way.
    AFK farmers need to go.. don't punish everyone else in the game who enjoys Turrets, Pets and minions just because of a handful of bad players, punish those players instead.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    They have changed both types of "pets" a few times in the past. For example, turrets used to never despawn; now they do, so they cannot actually be used to AFK farm (the player must do something to re-summon them).

    I don't think that every skill needs to be useful in every game mode. I think it's cool if they are, but as long as there are multiple options for builds, I think it's a distraction to worry about whether summoned pets are always helpful.

    Plus, minions are already incredibly useful (if not overpowered) in PvE content. They have a strong niche for a certain play style. Engineers have all sorts of interesting builds these days, even without turrets.

    Actually they are pretty useless. The problem is that reaper has no other choices to pick, because all other skills, don't do as much damage.
    And if you look at it: bloodfiend, Shadowfiend and golem together do 2k DPS. Which is pretty bad.

    It's really only 2 niches: afk farming players, and players that are either lazy as f... Or so freaking bad, that they need the minions to do open world content for them. Without them having to do anything.

    And finally, I really don't want ANet to spend time worrying about skills used for farming; I want them to focus their attention on those of us who actively play the game. Inattentive farming just looks bad; it doesn't do much in terms of actual value (in fact, there are other low-effort ways to earn more). True AFK farming is rarer than most people think & there are already tools to deal with it.


    I'm not against changes to these things; I just don't see them as a priority.

    If you would rework minions into active playstyle that could also give like more DPS to necros.

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @toucan.6358 said:
    Blood fiend is used for its blind commonly used by condi spec

    what blind? or are you refering to shadow fiend (which is often taken for LF generarion, not it's blind)

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • Iozeph.5617Iozeph.5617 Member ✭✭✭

    @toucan.6358 said:
    Why do Anet not rework these skills so they cant be used for afk farming. Right now engineers are using turrets because they autimatically attack nearby targets and can easily be refreshed. Necromancer minions are often used by necro afk farmers because their support and tagging of monsters. They are also pretty much left out of 2 gamemodes for their low health pool during fights.

    Anet have reworked other skills to make them more interesting, sometimes for the better and sometimes for worse.

    PVP:
    Minions die so fast in pvp
    turret engi were a thing back in the days but were nerfed

    WVW:
    They die on any clash between 2 zergs
    turrets die on any clash between 2 zergs

    Fractals/Raids:
    Elite minion often used for the CC
    Blood fiend is used for its blind commonly used by condi spec

    Reworking these spells would make it harder to afk farm and would make the otherwise dull spells more interesting. Anyone agree with me? what would u do to make them more interesting? or would you leave them like they are.

    Are you off your nut? Seriously? Turrets have been nerfed multiple times over the years thanks to people such as you whingeing about them. They're no longer ground target deployable. They're no longer immune to conditions or critical hits the way they still should be. They no longer have traits to allow for increased toughness and passive regeneration -Even Tool Kit no longer heals them- even though of ALL the minions of the minion classes(of which engineer hardly qualifies anymore) they're STATIC. Yes, Rangers have spirits but engineers don't get a pet that follows them everywhere and which accounts for a third to half of their DPS. Turrets are easily shot and cleaved through. They also have a limited uptime- even if nothing hits them they despawn.

    They used to be one of our profession's defining characteristics. Now we don't even have any control over when they overcharge - they're nothing but badly-implemented and glorified bombs that waste a whole bar slot. And still you want them further nerfed?

    As has been said here by others -many of us didn't abuse these aspects of our professions because it's absolute drudgery to farm instead of actually playing the game. And even so- who bloody cares if they're used by farmers? In the past Anet's done well enough to simply lower the drop rates of certain materials from overworld trash. This made farming an absolutely worthless occupation. There was no reason for them to not continue in that vein. Yet now what we have is a core profession(Engineer) so broken their only solution was to throw their hands in the air, give up, and then give our player base the Holosmith because they couldn't see a way of keeping our core current without power creeping future elites.

    Just curious. What's your main? Not seeing that anywhere in your post. How would you want to see your favourite profession gutted of everything that made it unique and worth playing because a loud minority bleated that they weren't able to do something as efficiently as you? Do you enjoy the erosion of balance in competitive modes which elites such as Holosmith, Scourge, and Soulbeast have contributed to in the short time they've been here? No? Well too bad. It's this brand of idiocy -demanding other professions be nerfed- that's gotten us where we are today.

    The lot of you whingers have made your beds now lie in them.

  • @Iozeph.5617 said:

    @toucan.6358 said:
    Why do Anet not rework these skills so they cant be used for afk farming. Right now engineers are using turrets because they autimatically attack nearby targets and can easily be refreshed. Necromancer minions are often used by necro afk farmers because their support and tagging of monsters. They are also pretty much left out of 2 gamemodes for their low health pool during fights.

    Anet have reworked other skills to make them more interesting, sometimes for the better and sometimes for worse.

    PVP:
    Minions die so fast in pvp
    turret engi were a thing back in the days but were nerfed

    WVW:
    They die on any clash between 2 zergs
    turrets die on any clash between 2 zergs

    Fractals/Raids:
    Elite minion often used for the CC
    Blood fiend is used for its blind commonly used by condi spec

    Reworking these spells would make it harder to afk farm and would make the otherwise dull spells more interesting. Anyone agree with me? what would u do to make them more interesting? or would you leave them like they are.

    Are you off your nut? Seriously? Turrets have been nerfed multiple times over the years thanks to people such as you whingeing about them. They're no longer ground target deployable. They're no longer immune to conditions or critical hits the way they still should be. They no longer have traits to allow for increased toughness and passive regeneration -Even Tool Kit no longer heals them- even though of ALL the minions of the minion classes(of which engineer hardly qualifies anymore) they're STATIC. Yes, Rangers have spirits but engineers don't get a pet that follows them everywhere and which accounts for a third to half of their DPS. Turrets are easily shot and cleaved through. They also have a limited uptime- even if nothing hits them they despawn.

    They used to be one of our profession's defining characteristics. Now we don't even have any control over when they overcharge - they're nothing but badly-implemented and glorified bombs that waste a whole bar slot. And still you want them further nerfed?

    As has been said here by others -many of us didn't abuse these aspects of our professions because it's absolute drudgery to farm instead of actually playing the game. And even so- who bloody cares if they're used by farmers? In the past Anet's done well enough to simply lower the drop rates of certain materials from overworld trash. This made farming an absolutely worthless occupation. There was no reason for them to not continue in that vein. Yet now what we have is a core profession(Engineer) so broken their only solution was to throw their hands in the air, give up, and then give our player base the Holosmith because they couldn't see a way of keeping our core current without power creeping future elites.

    Just curious. What's your main? Not seeing that anywhere in your post. How would you want to see your favourite profession gutted of everything that made it unique and worth playing because a loud minority bleated that they weren't able to do something as efficiently as you? Do you enjoy the erosion of balance in competitive modes which elites such as Holosmith, Scourge, and Soulbeast have contributed to in the short time they've been here? No? Well too bad. It's this brand of idiocy -demanding other professions be nerfed- that's gotten us where we are today.

    The lot of you whingers have made your beds now lie in them.

    I thought turrets just like mions had more health in pve so they dont die as fast. It could be simple rework like make them only attack if a monsters hits them or the owned, just like minions. I know turrets despawn now after some time but afkers use macros do this doesnt affect them.

  • @derd.6413 said:

    @toucan.6358 said:
    Blood fiend is used for its blind commonly used by condi spec

    what blind? or are you refering to shadow fiend (which is often taken for LF generarion, not it's blind)

    Ye thats the one i refer to.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Why?
    Answer: The thematic is cool even if the usefullness isn't.

    The game in itself isn't really fit for any kind of minion, which make any balance pass at them pretty difficult however, like I said, they carry a strong thematic impact. An enigineer using turret is as much of a given than a necromancer using undead minions. The single fact that those professions can use them reinforce the player's image of it's profession.

    In all of this, the ability to afk farm in openworld PvE isn't really important. The players that do that sure ain't enjoying the game but I prefer a dozen afk farmers filling the trading post with cheap materials than a single player putting a hold on a huge amount of ressources in the TP to make prices shot throught the roof. In game inflation is more toxic for a majority of player than deflation.

  • Daishi.6027Daishi.6027 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2018

    Cuz they don’t want builds like the last time they reworked turrets.

    Guess they could get the Mesmer treatment where they do something more reliable (still avoidable of course) then go poof.

  • Dace.8173Dace.8173 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @toucan.6358 said:

    @Iozeph.5617 said:

    @toucan.6358 said:
    Why do Anet not rework these skills so they cant be used for afk farming. Right now engineers are using turrets because they autimatically attack nearby targets and can easily be refreshed. Necromancer minions are often used by necro afk farmers because their support and tagging of monsters. They are also pretty much left out of 2 gamemodes for their low health pool during fights.

    Anet have reworked other skills to make them more interesting, sometimes for the better and sometimes for worse.

    PVP:
    Minions die so fast in pvp
    turret engi were a thing back in the days but were nerfed

    WVW:
    They die on any clash between 2 zergs
    turrets die on any clash between 2 zergs

    Fractals/Raids:
    Elite minion often used for the CC
    Blood fiend is used for its blind commonly used by condi spec

    Reworking these spells would make it harder to afk farm and would make the otherwise dull spells more interesting. Anyone agree with me? what would u do to make them more interesting? or would you leave them like they are.

    Are you off your nut? Seriously? Turrets have been nerfed multiple times over the years thanks to people such as you whingeing about them. They're no longer ground target deployable. They're no longer immune to conditions or critical hits the way they still should be. They no longer have traits to allow for increased toughness and passive regeneration -Even Tool Kit no longer heals them- even though of ALL the minions of the minion classes(of which engineer hardly qualifies anymore) they're STATIC. Yes, Rangers have spirits but engineers don't get a pet that follows them everywhere and which accounts for a third to half of their DPS. Turrets are easily shot and cleaved through. They also have a limited uptime- even if nothing hits them they despawn.

    They used to be one of our profession's defining characteristics. Now we don't even have any control over when they overcharge - they're nothing but badly-implemented and glorified bombs that waste a whole bar slot. And still you want them further nerfed?

    As has been said here by others -many of us didn't abuse these aspects of our professions because it's absolute drudgery to farm instead of actually playing the game. And even so- who bloody cares if they're used by farmers? In the past Anet's done well enough to simply lower the drop rates of certain materials from overworld trash. This made farming an absolutely worthless occupation. There was no reason for them to not continue in that vein. Yet now what we have is a core profession(Engineer) so broken their only solution was to throw their hands in the air, give up, and then give our player base the Holosmith because they couldn't see a way of keeping our core current without power creeping future elites.

    Just curious. What's your main? Not seeing that anywhere in your post. How would you want to see your favourite profession gutted of everything that made it unique and worth playing because a loud minority bleated that they weren't able to do something as efficiently as you? Do you enjoy the erosion of balance in competitive modes which elites such as Holosmith, Scourge, and Soulbeast have contributed to in the short time they've been here? No? Well too bad. It's this brand of idiocy -demanding other professions be nerfed- that's gotten us where we are today.

    The lot of you whingers have made your beds now lie in them.

    I thought turrets just like mions had more health in pve so they dont die as fast. It could be simple rework like make them only attack if a monsters hits them or the owned, just like minions. I know turrets despawn now after some time but afkers use macros do this doesnt affect them.

    You want to make them more useless? So because other people abuse them you feel honest players should pay the price? AFK farming is not a true issue and I don't see why anyone would complain about something that has no effect on them and is likely done by a minority of players, to begin with. Why not report AFK players if you come across them? Shortening the length of time a person can remain idle before the game boots you would also solve this issue.

    This seems to be a bad theme, people see that folks are doing something they don't like so the answer is to ask for honest players to take a hit.

  • Jack Redline.5379Jack Redline.5379 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Imo Anet should take a good long look at the REAL ENGINEER from Team fortress 2 That is what an engineer is kitten. Not this boon farting condi spamming monstrosity

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    They have changed both types of "pets" a few times in the past. For example, turrets used to never despawn; now they do, so they cannot actually be used to AFK farm (the player must do something to re-summon them).

    I don't think that every skill needs to be useful in every game mode. I think it's cool if they are, but as long as there are multiple options for builds, I think it's a distraction to worry about whether summoned pets are always helpful.

    Plus, minions are already incredibly useful (if not overpowered) in PvE content. They have a strong niche for a certain play style. Engineers have all sorts of interesting builds these days, even without turrets.

    Actually they are pretty useless. The problem is that reaper has no other choices to pick, because all other skills, don't do as much damage.
    And if you look at it: bloodfiend, Shadowfiend and golem together do 2k DPS. Which is pretty bad.

    It's really only 2 niches: afk farming players, and players that are either lazy as f... Or so freaking bad, that they need the minions to do open world content for them. Without them having to do anything.

    I don't use minions because i'm lazy or bad at the game.
    I use them because I like them.. plus they provide me with a ton of lifesteal healing which allows me to solo kill just about anything, which is something I like to do for fun and because I can.

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @toucan.6358 said:
    Why do Anet not rework these skills so they cant be used for afk farming.

    The reality is that it is much easier to reduce the rewards than it is to re balance around one aberrant behavior.
    See: Lake Doric Engi farm
    See also: Bitterfrost Frontier spiders.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2018

    @toucan.6358 said:
    Why do Anet not rework these skills so they cant be used for afk farming.

    Because it's not a problem that needs to be fixed. Whatever argument you got for why it's bad doesn't outweigh the fact that it's not worth the work to address it by changing class skills.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @toucan.6358 said:
    Why do Anet not rework these skills so they cant be used for afk farming.

    Because it's not a problem that needs to be fixed. Whatever argument you got for why it's bad doesn't outweigh the fact that it's not worth the work to address it by changing class skills.

    It actually might be. As they are after afk farmers. They don't want it in their game, they said so. So why give people the tools to afk farm and having to control again and again and again? That takes way more time than reworking these skills once.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @toucan.6358 said:
    Why do Anet not rework these skills so they cant be used for afk farming.

    Because it's not a problem that needs to be fixed. Whatever argument you got for why it's bad doesn't outweigh the fact that it's not worth the work to address it by changing class skills.

    It actually might be. As they are after afk farmers. They don't want it in their game, they said so. So why give people the tools to afk farm and having to control again and again and again? That takes way more time than reworking these skills once.

    When you see that it took them 6 years to teach the flesh golem how to swim, how can you expect that meddling with "minions" skills is an easy feat?

    Let's be realist, for skill diversity sake ANet want those skills to remain in the game.

    Just on the necromancer, modifying those skills threaten the already poor death magic traitline to crumble, which would mean that ANet would have to look at this traitline and most likely engage themself on a real profession's rework... On top of that, any rework of the necromancer's minion would lead to discontent from players that want minions, want more of them and want them to be more effective. Any one of the wishes of this part of the playerbase can only lead to easier afk farm even if they themself want those things for different reasons.

    The extent of the consequences of modifying "minion" skills for the sake of preventing afk farming are far more dire than just nerfing the loot table of specifics area. At worst there will be less players in GW2 "outdated" content and more in the new content.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @toucan.6358 said:
    Why do Anet not rework these skills so they cant be used for afk farming.

    Because it's not a problem that needs to be fixed. Whatever argument you got for why it's bad doesn't outweigh the fact that it's not worth the work to address it by changing class skills.

    It actually might be. As they are after afk farmers. They don't want it in their game, they said so. So why give people the tools to afk farm and having to control again and again and again? That takes way more time than reworking these skills once.

    That's not the approach Anet takes to deal with this problem though. It's their decision how to handle it, not for us to say the best way is this and why haven't you done anything about it Anet.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Dace.8173Dace.8173 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @toucan.6358 said:
    Why do Anet not rework these skills so they cant be used for afk farming.

    Because it's not a problem that needs to be fixed. Whatever argument you got for why it's bad doesn't outweigh the fact that it's not worth the work to address it by changing class skills.

    It actually might be. As they are after afk farmers. They don't want it in their game, they said so. So why give people the tools to afk farm and having to control again and again and again? That takes way more time than reworking these skills once.

    It is easier to control afk farmers than changing mechanics that the vast majority of players use honestly. The problem could be resolved simply by decrease the length of time you're allowed to be idle before the game boots you. That is more effect and more reasonable than changing something that would effect more players than who are presenting a problem.

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