Runes and Sigils rework at 11/13 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Runes and Sigils rework at 11/13

breno.5423breno.5423 Member ✭✭✭
edited November 6, 2018 in PVP

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/november-13-salvage-runes-and-sigils/

Just, unnecessary.
I don't even need 1 minute to realize how dumb are these changes at sPvP perspective.

Imagine those bursty builds (engineer static / mesmer shatter zerk / elementalist fresh air...) which cast 10 skills in a second with this new "sigil of vision". The entire burst is gonna be critical, because they don't need 3 seconds to cast everything.

Now imagine firebrand harrier with this new "sigil of celerity". 5 seconds of quickness will become 10.

What about +125 ferocity to Rune of Scholar? This is all what the 1 shot meta asked for.

/cheer

Tagged:
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Comments

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭

    @breno.5423 said:
    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/november-13-salvage-runes-and-sigils/

    Just, unnecessary.
    I don't even need 1 minute to realize how dumb are these changes at sPvP perspective.

    Imagine those bursty builds (engineer static / mesmer shatter zerk / elementalist fresh air...) which cast 10 skills in a second with this new "sigil of vision". The entire burst is gonna be critical, because they don't need 3 seconds to cast everything.

    Now imagine firebrand harrier with this new "sigil of celerity". 5 seconds of quickness will become 10.

    What about +125 ferocity to Rune of Scholar? This is all what the 1 shot meta asked for.

    /cheer

    the quickness sigil is so broken looooooooooooooooooooool

  • zoopop.5630zoopop.5630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Not gonna lie some of these changes are dope, overall I love it lol, I can see some big balance update coming up middle of the season or sooner.

  • mrauls.6519mrauls.6519 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 6, 2018

    Sigil of Vision is going to be crazy on Holo and hybrid Ele

    Twitch | YouTube

    Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I like that. I can envision nice things to come.

  • What makes you think that the listed changes are for PvP and not split?

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • mrauls.6519mrauls.6519 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cal Cohen.3527 said:
    There are no new runes or sigils being added to pvp with this update. Celerity is an existing pve sigil and Vision is a new pve sigil, so neither of them will be available in pvp. Intelligence will retain its existing functionality and will still be available in pvp.

    If you do the math on the Scholar change you'll see that 125 ferocity is about a 3-4% damage increase depending on amulet choice and additional crit chance. Given that the 6 bonus loses 5%>90% the overall damage ends up being pretty similar. You get a bit more damage while under 90% at the cost of damage over 90%, which is probably a positive most of the time but isn't an increase to 1-shot potential.

    There will be a lot of changes to existing runes and sigils for pvp. We have done some preemptive splits and will be keeping a close eye on everything else with the plan of splitting anything that becomes too much of a problem.

    Thanks! And nice forum picture

    Twitch | YouTube

    Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

  • Arcaedus.7290Arcaedus.7290 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cal Cohen.3527 said:
    There are no new runes or sigils being added to pvp with this update. Celerity is an existing pve sigil and Vision is a new pve sigil, so neither of them will be available in pvp. Intelligence will retain its existing functionality and will still be available in pvp.

    If you do the math on the Scholar change you'll see that 125 ferocity is about a 3-4% damage increase depending on amulet choice and additional crit chance. Given that the 6 bonus loses 5%>90% the overall damage ends up being pretty similar. You get a bit more damage while under 90% at the cost of damage over 90%, which is probably a positive most of the time but isn't an increase to 1-shot potential.

    There will be a lot of changes to existing runes and sigils for pvp. We have done some preemptive splits and will be keeping a close eye on everything else with the plan of splitting anything that becomes too much of a problem.

    I stand corrected. Thank you for clarifying this!

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ah i wanted so much to try celerity/vision on my (s)low hitting Sword Weaver :/

  • @Nebilim.5127 said:

    @Cal Cohen.3527 said:
    There are no new runes or sigils being added to pvp with this update. Celerity is an existing pve sigil and Vision is a new pve sigil, so neither of them will be available in pvp. Intelligence will retain its existing functionality and will still be available in pvp.

    If you do the math on the Scholar change you'll see that 125 ferocity is about a 3-4% damage increase depending on amulet choice and additional crit chance. Given that the 6 bonus loses 5%>90% the overall damage ends up being pretty similar. You get a bit more damage while under 90% at the cost of damage over 90%, which is probably a positive most of the time but isn't an increase to 1-shot potential.

    There will be a lot of changes to existing runes and sigils for pvp. We have done some preemptive splits and will be keeping a close eye on everything else with the plan of splitting anything that becomes too much of a problem.

    Hi, can you make wvw be treated as pvp too? Thank you. If not, can you reduce damage from wvw by 66% with this patch? Thank you.

    Otherwise what OP said will be true there, except 10 times harder with all the bloated stats, well i know wvw was never balanced to begin with but...i'm not particularly fond of seeing all the builds OP mentioned kill me faster than my ping can react. 5 second quickness and the vision sigil will be SO KITTEN BROKEN there lmao

    Agree

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 6, 2018

    Playerbase: Help! The game is plagued with braindead damage sources with baked-in invuln rotations that a kindergartner could master.
    Arenanet: Let's slightly revamp the one part of our bloated gear system that we could probably completely delete without it even having that much of a game-wide impact!

    Truly anet/10.

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 6, 2018

    @WolfSparkSmack.2649 said:
    Don't cry, this is epic awesome, its always good when we have a big change, so we can have a whole new experience!

    There is nothing new about this experience. The only change is how everyone will read the patch note list, grab the 1-3 best runes which grant the most damage, CC and/or bonus health/invuln states, and then everyone's inventory will be slightly cleaner. That's the entire big update. The only real change will be to random rune prices on the trading post.

  • Nothing for condi builds?

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cal Cohen.3527 said:
    There are no new runes or sigils being added to pvp with this update. Celerity is an existing pve sigil and Vision is a new pve sigil, so neither of them will be available in pvp. Intelligence will retain its existing functionality and will still be available in pvp.

    If you do the math on the Scholar change you'll see that 125 ferocity is about a 3-4% damage increase depending on amulet choice and additional crit chance. Given that the 6 bonus loses 5%>90% the overall damage ends up being pretty similar. You get a bit more damage while under 90% at the cost of damage over 90%, which is probably a positive most of the time but isn't an increase to 1-shot potential.

    There will be a lot of changes to existing runes and sigils for pvp. We have done some preemptive splits and will be keeping a close eye on everything else with the plan of splitting anything that becomes too much of a problem.

    That’s cool 😎. Scholar is surely a buff in sPvP. Unless you are playing a 1 shot build. It is good on all sides.

  • Master Ketsu.4569Master Ketsu.4569 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The real issue is honestly going to be WvW, where all these new sigils will be in full force. New sigil of vision is basically going to be an absolute requirement on almost every build there.

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭

    @Gamble.4580 said:
    Nothing for condi builds?

    It's just a list of examples and is not exhaustive?

  • SteepledHat.1345SteepledHat.1345 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2018

    @Cal Cohen.3527 said:
    There are no new runes or sigils being added to pvp with this update. Celerity is an existing pve sigil and Vision is a new pve sigil, so neither of them will be available in pvp. Intelligence will retain its existing functionality and will still be available in pvp.

    If you do the math on the Scholar change you'll see that 125 ferocity is about a 3-4% damage increase depending on amulet choice and additional crit chance. Given that the 6 bonus loses 5%>90% the overall damage ends up being pretty similar. You get a bit more damage while under 90% at the cost of damage over 90%, which is probably a positive most of the time but isn't an increase to 1-shot potential.

    There will be a lot of changes to existing runes and sigils for pvp. We have done some preemptive splits and will be keeping a close eye on everything else with the plan of splitting anything that becomes too much of a problem.

    2 plus 2 is 4 minus 1 is 3 quick maths

    Nice

  • I actually like the current Sigil of concentration, I’m actually really sad it’s being changed to only 10%.

    But I like some of these changes. So many tunes and Sigil right now are near useless so this will be a good thing. Hopefully the changes make sense

  • Apokriphos.7042Apokriphos.7042 Member ✭✭
    edited November 7, 2018

    @Cal Cohen.3527 said:
    There are no new runes or sigils being added to pvp with this update. Celerity is an existing pve sigil and Vision is a new pve sigil, so neither of them will be available in pvp. Intelligence will retain its existing functionality and will still be available in pvp.

    If you do the math on the Scholar change you'll see that 125 ferocity is about a 3-4% damage increase depending on amulet choice and additional crit chance. Given that the 6 bonus loses 5%>90% the overall damage ends up being pretty similar. You get a bit more damage while under 90% at the cost of damage over 90%, which is probably a positive most of the time but isn't an increase to 1-shot potential.

    There will be a lot of changes to existing runes and sigils for pvp. We have done some preemptive splits and will be keeping a close eye on everything else with the plan of splitting anything that becomes too much of a problem.

    I would like to second the request to reconsider these changes for wvw.

    It will devastate the small group roaming community and lead to the death of any classes that cant survive extreme burst from stealth, greatly reducing roaming class diversity while increasing the survivability of those one shot classes, if they dont have to worry about precision as much.

  • RisenHowl.2419RisenHowl.2419 Member ✭✭✭

    Know what's awesome? Full valkyrie one shot builds. All of your favorite current one shot builds just gained 10k hp.

    Which means they'll still one shot any build that isn't running tank gear, but they can't be one shot back. Goodbye class diversity lol

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @breno.5423 said:
    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/november-13-salvage-runes-and-sigils/

    Just, unnecessary.
    I don't even need 1 minute to realize how dumb are these changes at sPvP perspective.

    Imagine those bursty builds (engineer static / mesmer shatter zerk / elementalist fresh air...) which cast 10 skills in a second with this new "sigil of vision". The entire burst is gonna be critical, because they don't need 3 seconds to cast everything.

    Now imagine firebrand harrier with this new "sigil of celerity". 5 seconds of quickness will become 10.

    What about +125 ferocity to Rune of Scholar? This is all what the 1 shot meta asked for.

    /cheer

    the quickness sigil is so broken looooooooooooooooooooool

    Not with 20 seconds of cooldown, blocking or boon stripping it away becomes a high risk for wasting it.

  • RisenHowl.2419RisenHowl.2419 Member ✭✭✭

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @breno.5423 said:
    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/november-13-salvage-runes-and-sigils/

    Just, unnecessary.
    I don't even need 1 minute to realize how dumb are these changes at sPvP perspective.

    Imagine those bursty builds (engineer static / mesmer shatter zerk / elementalist fresh air...) which cast 10 skills in a second with this new "sigil of vision". The entire burst is gonna be critical, because they don't need 3 seconds to cast everything.

    Now imagine firebrand harrier with this new "sigil of celerity". 5 seconds of quickness will become 10.

    What about +125 ferocity to Rune of Scholar? This is all what the 1 shot meta asked for.

    /cheer

    the quickness sigil is so broken looooooooooooooooooooool

    Not with 20 seconds of cooldown, blocking or boon stripping it away becomes a high risk for wasting it.

    It only fires when you successfully disable, so you can't block it. It also means you need to use a stunbreak, dodge, and boonstrip (if it even gets the quickness) to counter a sigil that fires every 20s.

    Quickness gs burst from warrior following full counter

    Quickness 3rb every time a DE marks you

    Quickness ranger lb burst, without giving up a utility

    Quickness holo burst freeing up a utility

    Quickness reaper while they keep blighters boon

    Quickness mantra mirage gs burst

    Quickness berserker gunflames back to back

    Quickness weaver fa burst

    Alone or combined with 100% crit on weapon swap. That is ALOT of power creep

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @breno.5423 said:
    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/november-13-salvage-runes-and-sigils/

    Just, unnecessary.
    I don't even need 1 minute to realize how dumb are these changes at sPvP perspective.

    Imagine those bursty builds (engineer static / mesmer shatter zerk / elementalist fresh air...) which cast 10 skills in a second with this new "sigil of vision". The entire burst is gonna be critical, because they don't need 3 seconds to cast everything.

    Now imagine firebrand harrier with this new "sigil of celerity". 5 seconds of quickness will become 10.

    What about +125 ferocity to Rune of Scholar? This is all what the 1 shot meta asked for.

    /cheer

    the quickness sigil is so broken looooooooooooooooooooool

    Not with 20 seconds of cooldown, blocking or boon stripping it away becomes a high risk for wasting it.

    It only fires when you successfully disable, so you can't block it. It also means you need to use a stunbreak, dodge, and boonstrip (if it even gets the quickness) to counter a sigil that fires every 20s.

    Quickness gs burst from warrior following full counter

    Quickness 3rb every time a DE marks you

    Quickness ranger lb burst, without giving up a utility

    Quickness holo burst freeing up a utility

    Quickness reaper while they keep blighters boon

    Quickness mantra mirage gs burst

    Quickness berserker gunflames back to back

    Quickness weaver fa burst

    Alone or combined with 100% crit on weapon swap. That is ALOT of power creep

    It was just an example, as you said stunbreaks will counter and a lot of people use them anyway which will make a quickness burst predictable.

  • RisenHowl.2419RisenHowl.2419 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2018

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @breno.5423 said:
    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/november-13-salvage-runes-and-sigils/

    Just, unnecessary.
    I don't even need 1 minute to realize how dumb are these changes at sPvP perspective.

    Imagine those bursty builds (engineer static / mesmer shatter zerk / elementalist fresh air...) which cast 10 skills in a second with this new "sigil of vision". The entire burst is gonna be critical, because they don't need 3 seconds to cast everything.

    Now imagine firebrand harrier with this new "sigil of celerity". 5 seconds of quickness will become 10.

    What about +125 ferocity to Rune of Scholar? This is all what the 1 shot meta asked for.

    /cheer

    the quickness sigil is so broken looooooooooooooooooooool

    Not with 20 seconds of cooldown, blocking or boon stripping it away becomes a high risk for wasting it.

    It only fires when you successfully disable, so you can't block it. It also means you need to use a stunbreak, dodge, and boonstrip (if it even gets the quickness) to counter a sigil that fires every 20s.

    Quickness gs burst from warrior following full counter

    Quickness 3rb every time a DE marks you

    Quickness ranger lb burst, without giving up a utility

    Quickness holo burst freeing up a utility

    Quickness reaper while they keep blighters boon

    Quickness mantra mirage gs burst

    Quickness berserker gunflames back to back

    Quickness weaver fa burst

    Alone or combined with 100% crit on weapon swap. That is ALOT of power creep

    It was just an example, as you said stunbreaks will counter and a lot of people use them anyway which will make a quickness burst predictable.

    I don't think you understand how the sigil is worded man, you only gain quickness when the disable occurs. So if you land any disable, you 100% have quickness for the next 5s to land your burst.

    You no longer have the option to eat a disable instead of blowing the stunbreak. You have to blow the stunbreak and immediately dodge to avoid some of the quickness burst, losing two defensive cds every 20s because of a sigil. If you blow a boonstrip cd to neutralize the quickness, you no longer have it later to strip stab or resistance to secure a kill.

    That is crazy strong for a sigil that can proc every 20s

    There wasn't an issue with sigil of rage before because it had a long CD and could proc at inopportune times, wasting it. Having it proc on a shorter cd and only when you really want quickness is an awful idea

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @breno.5423 said:
    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/november-13-salvage-runes-and-sigils/

    Just, unnecessary.
    I don't even need 1 minute to realize how dumb are these changes at sPvP perspective.

    Imagine those bursty builds (engineer static / mesmer shatter zerk / elementalist fresh air...) which cast 10 skills in a second with this new "sigil of vision". The entire burst is gonna be critical, because they don't need 3 seconds to cast everything.

    Now imagine firebrand harrier with this new "sigil of celerity". 5 seconds of quickness will become 10.

    What about +125 ferocity to Rune of Scholar? This is all what the 1 shot meta asked for.

    /cheer

    the quickness sigil is so broken looooooooooooooooooooool

    Not with 20 seconds of cooldown, blocking or boon stripping it away becomes a high risk for wasting it.

    It only fires when you successfully disable, so you can't block it. It also means you need to use a stunbreak, dodge, and boonstrip (if it even gets the quickness) to counter a sigil that fires every 20s.

    Quickness gs burst from warrior following full counter

    Quickness 3rb every time a DE marks you

    Quickness ranger lb burst, without giving up a utility

    Quickness holo burst freeing up a utility

    Quickness reaper while they keep blighters boon

    Quickness mantra mirage gs burst

    Quickness berserker gunflames back to back

    Quickness weaver fa burst

    Alone or combined with 100% crit on weapon swap. That is ALOT of power creep

    It was just an example, as you said stunbreaks will counter and a lot of people use them anyway which will make a quickness burst predictable.

    I don't think you understand how the sigil is worded man, you only gain quickness when the disable occurs. So if you land any disable, you 100% have quickness for the next 5s to land your burst.

    You no longer have the option to eat a disable instead of blowing the stunbreak. You have to blow the stunbreak and immediately dodge to avoid some of the quickness burst, losing two defensive cds every 20s because of a sigil. If you blow a boonstrip cd to neutralize the quickness, you no longer have it later to strip stab or resistance to secure a kill.

    That is crazy strong for a sigil that can proc every 20s

    There wasn't an issue with sigil of rage before because it had a long CD and could proc at inopportune times, wasting it. Having it proc on a shorter cd and only when you really want quickness is an awful idea

    Well from my experience many fights don't tend to last as long as 20 seconds in all honesty.. so at most you'll get to pull off that sigil quickness twice in a straight up 1v1.
    Unless you're fighting someone who loves to use cheap mechanics like Stealth to buy time.

    Dodging isn't your only counter though, you could use an evade skill or block to counter the burst instead or return with your own disable burst combo.. there are many options.
    A warrior with Shield Master could easily turn a quickness hundred blades into a might farm for example.
    It really just depends on the build, although from what it looks like these sigil/run updates will not be coming to PvP so i guess this is a WvW only issue now.

  • RisenHowl.2419RisenHowl.2419 Member ✭✭✭

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @breno.5423 said:
    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/november-13-salvage-runes-and-sigils/

    Just, unnecessary.
    I don't even need 1 minute to realize how dumb are these changes at sPvP perspective.

    Imagine those bursty builds (engineer static / mesmer shatter zerk / elementalist fresh air...) which cast 10 skills in a second with this new "sigil of vision". The entire burst is gonna be critical, because they don't need 3 seconds to cast everything.

    Now imagine firebrand harrier with this new "sigil of celerity". 5 seconds of quickness will become 10.

    What about +125 ferocity to Rune of Scholar? This is all what the 1 shot meta asked for.

    /cheer

    the quickness sigil is so broken looooooooooooooooooooool

    Not with 20 seconds of cooldown, blocking or boon stripping it away becomes a high risk for wasting it.

    It only fires when you successfully disable, so you can't block it. It also means you need to use a stunbreak, dodge, and boonstrip (if it even gets the quickness) to counter a sigil that fires every 20s.

    Quickness gs burst from warrior following full counter

    Quickness 3rb every time a DE marks you

    Quickness ranger lb burst, without giving up a utility

    Quickness holo burst freeing up a utility

    Quickness reaper while they keep blighters boon

    Quickness mantra mirage gs burst

    Quickness berserker gunflames back to back

    Quickness weaver fa burst

    Alone or combined with 100% crit on weapon swap. That is ALOT of power creep

    It was just an example, as you said stunbreaks will counter and a lot of people use them anyway which will make a quickness burst predictable.

    I don't think you understand how the sigil is worded man, you only gain quickness when the disable occurs. So if you land any disable, you 100% have quickness for the next 5s to land your burst.

    You no longer have the option to eat a disable instead of blowing the stunbreak. You have to blow the stunbreak and immediately dodge to avoid some of the quickness burst, losing two defensive cds every 20s because of a sigil. If you blow a boonstrip cd to neutralize the quickness, you no longer have it later to strip stab or resistance to secure a kill.

    That is crazy strong for a sigil that can proc every 20s

    There wasn't an issue with sigil of rage before because it had a long CD and could proc at inopportune times, wasting it. Having it proc on a shorter cd and only when you really want quickness is an awful idea

    Well from my experience many fights don't tend to last as long as 20 seconds in all honesty.. so at most you'll get to pull off that sigil quickness twice in a straight up 1v1.
    Unless you're fighting someone who loves to use cheap mechanics like Stealth to buy time.

    Dodging isn't your only counter though, you could use an evade skill or block to counter the burst instead or return with your own disable burst combo.. there are many options.
    A warrior with Shield Master could easily turn a quickness hundred blades into a might farm for example.
    It really just depends on the build, although from what it looks like these sigil/run updates will not be coming to PvP so i guess this is a WvW only issue now.

    Have you roamed wvw lately? Cheap stealth tactics and burst setups rule that game mode. These sigil changes only make it worse. Now every single one of those stealth burst combos has easily accessible quickness and guaranteed crits, so they can run vales to be crazy tank on top of everything else.

    That is not healthy for game play or diversity

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm glad they removed the 'get [random/useless stuff] when hit (45~90s)'. And reworked runes that may have never Seen the light out of the merchant's bag. I'm always in for new possibilities and more choices. And for wvw it's not like you could not be bursted down in 1.25s already before. Can't wait to see the full list of changes.

  • Silinsar.6298Silinsar.6298 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2018

    @Cal Cohen.3527 said:
    There are no new runes or sigils being added to pvp with this update. Celerity is an existing pve sigil and Vision is a new pve sigil, so neither of them will be available in pvp. Intelligence will retain its existing functionality and will still be available in pvp.

    If you do the math on the Scholar change you'll see that 125 ferocity is about a 3-4% damage increase depending on amulet choice and additional crit chance. Given that the 6 bonus loses 5%>90% the overall damage ends up being pretty similar. You get a bit more damage while under 90% at the cost of damage over 90%, which is probably a positive most of the time but isn't an increase to 1-shot potential.

    There will be a lot of changes to existing runes and sigils for pvp. We have done some preemptive splits and will be keeping a close eye on everything else with the plan of splitting anything that becomes too much of a problem.

    Please add a / keep the PvP version for the sigils and runes in WvW as well.

    SD Engi / Holo roaming videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/algeyr

  • Rysdude.3824Rysdude.3824 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @WolfSparkSmack.2649 said:
    Don't cry, this is epic awesome, its always good when we have a big change, so we can have a whole new experience!

    Im excited also. New sigils and runes means new possibilities!

  • I find it very entertaining to login after the announcement. Check BLTC and find all the millions of 19c runes/sigils are now over a silver in price. Almost thought the announcement was an April Fools Day joke.

  • @RisenHowl.2419 said:
    It only fires when you successfully disable, so you can't block it. It also means you need to use a stunbreak, dodge, and boonstrip (if it even gets the quickness) to counter a sigil that fires every 20s.

    keyword - successfully disable - if you block, dodge, stablity, blind, etc onto the skill that has CC it won't fire.

    wih skillfull oponent this may lead to situation when it never fires at all.

    so saying it will fire every 20s in the very next sentence is not exacly fair.

  • RisenHowl.2419RisenHowl.2419 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2018

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:
    It only fires when you successfully disable, so you can't block it. It also means you need to use a stunbreak, dodge, and boonstrip (if it even gets the quickness) to counter a sigil that fires every 20s.

    keyword - successfully disable - if you block, dodge, stablity, blind, etc onto the skill that has CC it won't fire.

    wih skillfull oponent this may lead to situation when it never fires at all.

    so saying it will fire every 20s in the very next sentence is not exacly fair.

    Again, you're not understanding. It only grants quickness when your disable occurs, not on skill use with potential to disable. You can block/evade 3 stuns in a row and the 4th one that connects will grant the quickness.

    Unless you're suggesting you never get disabled, ever, in an encounter. Which is incredibly unrealistic against any competent player.

    Edit: in fact that would be worse as it means you've blown every defensive cd avoiding the first 3 disables and have to eat the quickness burst when it comes

  • @Cal Cohen.3527 said:
    There are no new runes or sigils being added to pvp with this update. Celerity is an existing pve sigil and Vision is a new pve sigil, so neither of them will be available in pvp. Intelligence will retain its existing functionality and will still be available in pvp.

    If you do the math on the Scholar change you'll see that 125 ferocity is about a 3-4% damage increase depending on amulet choice and additional crit chance. Given that the 6 bonus loses 5%>90% the overall damage ends up being pretty similar. You get a bit more damage while under 90% at the cost of damage over 90%, which is probably a positive most of the time but isn't an increase to 1-shot potential.

    There will be a lot of changes to existing runes and sigils for pvp. We have done some preemptive splits and will be keeping a close eye on everything else with the plan of splitting anything that becomes too much of a problem.

    Hi Cal, am I correct in assuming all current sigils will get updated? Or will we need to do some sort of in-game trade for the re-vamped scholar rune?

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm so excited!
    And i just can't hide it!
    I will use my crowd control, and i think i'll like it!

  • Sampson.2403Sampson.2403 Member ✭✭✭

    Not a fan of the rune of scholar change. It's a slight nerf to my one shot mantra mesmer build.

  • @Cal Cohen.3527 said:
    There are no new runes or sigils being added to pvp with this update. Celerity is an existing pve sigil and Vision is a new pve sigil, so neither of them will be available in pvp. Intelligence will retain its existing functionality and will still be available in pvp.

    If you do the math on the Scholar change you'll see that 125 ferocity is about a 3-4% damage increase depending on amulet choice and additional crit chance. Given that the 6 bonus loses 5%>90% the overall damage ends up being pretty similar. You get a bit more damage while under 90% at the cost of damage over 90%, which is probably a positive most of the time but isn't an increase to 1-shot potential.

    There will be a lot of changes to existing runes and sigils for pvp. We have done some preemptive splits and will be keeping a close eye on everything else with the plan of splitting anything that becomes too much of a problem.

    By "new" do you mean bringing a new sigil into the game or do you mean chaging the name of intelligence to vision?

  • kipthelip.5802kipthelip.5802 Member ✭✭
    edited November 7, 2018

    There should be a WvWvW board. Im tired of zeglings coming here to complain about stuff that doesn't effect spvp much at all.

  • @RisenHowl.2419 said:

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:
    It only fires when you successfully disable, so you can't block it. It also means you need to use a stunbreak, dodge, and boonstrip (if it even gets the quickness) to counter a sigil that fires every 20s.

    keyword - successfully disable - if you block, dodge, stablity, blind, etc onto the skill that has CC it won't fire.

    wih skillfull oponent this may lead to situation when it never fires at all.

    so saying it will fire every 20s in the very next sentence is not exacly fair.

    Again, you're not understanding. It only grants quickness when your disable occurs, not on skill use with potential to disable. You can block/evade 3 stuns in a row and the 4th one that connects will grant the quickness.

    Yes I did understand that correctly, and that was my point - no need to burn stunbreak, evade and boonstrip when you can prevent boon being applied in the first place by not allowing disable to land in the first place ;)

    Unless you're suggesting you never get disabled, ever, in an encounter. Which is incredibly unrealistic against any competent player.

    In a scope of single 1v1 fight is not that unrealistic in "most" cases - sure not every disable skill is well telegraphed, but imo more defensive builds will not have much issues with that specific sigil.

    Edit: in fact that would be worse as it means you've blown every defensive cd avoiding the first 3 disables and have to eat the quickness burst when it comes

    well if enemy lands disable after you've blown out all your defences to avoid previous disables than I'd say GG WP for that guy. Because either he brought more disables to the table than I expected and timed them properly out (spamming 4 disables in a row would be pretty weak when your build for example had a skill giving you 5 stacks of stab and all 4 went onto this stabs due to how fast they were thrown out) or he preplanned his disable uses properly so his first disable came off cd faster than my defences did.

    in both cases tho saying it will fire every 20s is unfair and unrealistic because it'd require dude to actually land disable every 20s on you and if that is a case then even without that sigil it'd mean you are in trouble....

    ontop of that considering few traits reacting to disable you could get a build capable of actually punishing certain builds built around that sigil - since if he lands disable and gain quickness you know at that point he has procced it and can maneuver to waste his quickness burst and follow it up by applying pressure of your own once he burns all of his stuff out..... but yeah that would require more defensive/counter-focused build to work (or thief/mesmer with sufficient amount of evades/stealth just waiting your quickness out)

  • RisenHowl.2419RisenHowl.2419 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:
    It only fires when you successfully disable, so you can't block it. It also means you need to use a stunbreak, dodge, and boonstrip (if it even gets the quickness) to counter a sigil that fires every 20s.

    keyword - successfully disable - if you block, dodge, stablity, blind, etc onto the skill that has CC it won't fire.

    wih skillfull oponent this may lead to situation when it never fires at all.

    so saying it will fire every 20s in the very next sentence is not exacly fair.

    Again, you're not understanding. It only grants quickness when your disable occurs, not on skill use with potential to disable. You can block/evade 3 stuns in a row and the 4th one that connects will grant the quickness.

    Yes I did understand that correctly, and that was my point - no need to burn stunbreak, evade and boonstrip when you can prevent boon being applied in the first place by not allowing disable to land in the first place ;)

    Unless you're suggesting you never get disabled, ever, in an encounter. Which is incredibly unrealistic against any competent player.

    In a scope of single 1v1 fight is not that unrealistic in "most" cases - sure not every disable skill is well telegraphed, but imo more defensive builds will not have much issues with that specific sigil.

    Edit: in fact that would be worse as it means you've blown every defensive cd avoiding the first 3 disables and have to eat the quickness burst when it comes

    well if enemy lands disable after you've blown out all your defences to avoid previous disables than I'd say GG WP for that guy. Because either he brought more disables to the table than I expected and timed them properly out (spamming 4 disables in a row would be pretty weak when your build for example had a skill giving you 5 stacks of stab and all 4 went onto this stabs due to how fast they were thrown out) or he preplanned his disable uses properly so his first disable came off cd faster than my defences did.

    in both cases tho saying it will fire every 20s is unfair and unrealistic because it'd require dude to actually land disable every 20s on you and if that is a case then even without that sigil it'd mean you are in trouble....

    ontop of that considering few traits reacting to disable you could get a build capable of actually punishing certain builds built around that sigil - since if he lands disable and gain quickness you know at that point he has procced it and can maneuver to waste his quickness burst and follow it up by applying pressure of your own once he burns all of his stuff out..... but yeah that would require more defensive/counter-focused build to work (or thief/mesmer with sufficient amount of evades/stealth just waiting your quickness out)

    Every thief with trickery 3/1/2 has an instant disable on a 21s CD that steals stab, effectively making it a guarantee to get quickness, vigor, 3 boons stolen (stab is prioritized), gap closer, fury and swiftness to stay on target.

    Every mantra gs mesmer build can open from stealth with a ranged instant disable that grants quickness to land their burst

    Every slb can open from stealth with hilt bash into quickness worldly impact, gl not being one shot. How about lb 4/2 from 1800 range with sic em?

    All three can open in stealth, there is 0 counterplay. Most players coming out of stealth take 1/4-1/2s to even render on your screen.

  • @RisenHowl.2419 said:
    Every thief with trickery 3/1/2 has an instant disable on a 21s CD that steals stab, effectively making it a guarantee to get quickness, vigor, 3 boons stolen (stab is prioritized), gap closer, fury and swiftness to stay on target.

    and if it was power thief I'd gladly let it kill itself on retal..... (sure not everyone has retal, but even opening with all these boonsdoes not guarantee thief to be even able to survive encounter - these things are paper as kitten)

    Every mantra gs mesmer build can open from stealth with a ranged instant disable that grants quickness to land their burst

    I don't remember meeting these to be honest so won't comment in here....

    Every slb can open from stealth with hilt bash into quickness worldly impact, gl not being one shot. How about lb 4/2 from 1800 range with sic em?

    and what exacly is the source of stealth for soulbeast there? because the only one that comes to my mind is longbow skill bu that one reuire it to firstly take a shot at you that would be fairly plain telegraph that something is incoming. (also last time I checked LB could only go up to 1500 range so I am unsure how the hell do you see it going up to 1800.....)

    All three can open in stealth, there is 0 counterplay. Most players coming out of stealth take 1/4-1/2s to even render on your screen.

    and at least as far as sPvP is concerned there was a vid from WP where he was adressing "it's from stealth literaly no counterplay" argument.... (and mind you we are in pvp forum ;) )

    in case you missed vid itself here's a link - I'd give a timestamp to the part where he rants about stealth bursts but I don't really have tme atmat hand to dig into vid itself.....

  • RisenHowl.2419RisenHowl.2419 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:
    Every thief with trickery 3/1/2 has an instant disable on a 21s CD that steals stab, effectively making it a guarantee to get quickness, vigor, 3 boons stolen (stab is prioritized), gap closer, fury and swiftness to stay on target.

    and if it was power thief I'd gladly let it kill itself on retal..... (sure not everyone has retal, but even opening with all these boonsdoes not guarantee thief to be even able to survive encounter - these things are paper as kitten)

    Every mantra gs mesmer build can open from stealth with a ranged instant disable that grants quickness to land their burst

    I don't remember meeting these to be honest so won't comment in here....

    Every slb can open from stealth with hilt bash into quickness worldly impact, gl not being one shot. How about lb 4/2 from 1800 range with sic em?

    and what exacly is the source of stealth for soulbeast there? because the only one that comes to my mind is longbow skill bu that one reuire it to firstly take a shot at you that would be fairly plain telegraph that something is incoming. (also last time I checked LB could only go up to 1500 range so I am unsure how the hell do you see it going up to 1800.....)

    All three can open in stealth, there is 0 counterplay. Most players coming out of stealth take 1/4-1/2s to even render on your screen.

    and at least as far as sPvP is concerned there was a vid from WP where he was adressing "it's from stealth literaly no counterplay" argument.... (and mind you we are in pvp forum ;) )

    in case you missed vid itself here's a link - I'd give a timestamp to the part where he rants about stealth bursts but I don't really have tme atmat hand to dig into vid itself.....

    First off, steal strip 3 boons so there's a good chance the thief would steal retal. Second, retal won't kill a thief that only has to hit you 4 times to kill you, with quickness, from stealth.

    Going to go ahead and assume you don't pvp much or haven't gotten out of silver yet judging by your lack of class knowledge.

    Gs mirage is very popular, as is stealth slb.

    Slb has access to smoke field through smokescale pet and plenty of blast finishers to stack stealth. LB range is affected by height, so if they're on a ledge above you its 1800 range.

    Here's a fun video of stealth opening on a class with 2.5k armor and 22k hp:

    Lots of counterplay there. Remember, this is a pvp forum so you should probably play pvp amd have an understanding of the meta if you want to comment ;D

  • If you think deeper,they want players to pick more defensive stats and not just raw zerk stat gear because buffing damage means everyone gonna die faster without armor/vitality and other defensive things. So they want you to play more bunker builds with sustain. Problem that arenanet make is: when they buff something they don't balance other things(example:deadeye with perma stealth and not all classes got reveal spell that can counter it).

  • Lord Trejgon.2809Lord Trejgon.2809 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 8, 2018

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:
    Every thief with trickery 3/1/2 has an instant disable on a 21s CD that steals stab, effectively making it a guarantee to get quickness, vigor, 3 boons stolen (stab is prioritized), gap closer, fury and swiftness to stay on target.

    and if it was power thief I'd gladly let it kill itself on retal..... (sure not everyone has retal, but even opening with all these boonsdoes not guarantee thief to be even able to survive encounter - these things are paper as kitten)

    Every mantra gs mesmer build can open from stealth with a ranged instant disable that grants quickness to land their burst

    I don't remember meeting these to be honest so won't comment in here....

    Every slb can open from stealth with hilt bash into quickness worldly impact, gl not being one shot. How about lb 4/2 from 1800 range with sic em?

    and what exacly is the source of stealth for soulbeast there? because the only one that comes to my mind is longbow skill bu that one reuire it to firstly take a shot at you that would be fairly plain telegraph that something is incoming. (also last time I checked LB could only go up to 1500 range so I am unsure how the hell do you see it going up to 1800.....)

    All three can open in stealth, there is 0 counterplay. Most players coming out of stealth take 1/4-1/2s to even render on your screen.

    and at least as far as sPvP is concerned there was a vid from WP where he was adressing "it's from stealth literaly no counterplay" argument.... (and mind you we are in pvp forum ;) )

    in case you missed vid itself here's a link - I'd give a timestamp to the part where he rants about stealth bursts but I don't really have tme atmat hand to dig into vid itself.....

    First off, steal strip 3 boons so there's a good chance the thief would steal retal.

    Not if Retal is applied after the steal (retaliatory subconcious ftw?)

    Second, retal won't kill a thief that only has to hit you 4 times to kill you, with quickness, from stealth.

    note that only first hit will be "from stealth" (even if we assume that your build against his build means he can do it in just 4 hits - most power thiefs required much more hits to down those of my builds that were not built as glass cannons - and I literally had power thiefs killing themselves on my guard's retal in the past)

    Going to go ahead and assume you don't pvp much or haven't gotten out of silver yet judging by your lack of class knowledge.

    HA jokes on you I don't play rankeds at all :D

    EDIT: for clarification: in past years my involvement into sPvP things was purely academical by talking with people who did it, observing people who did it and theorycrafting ontop of that - it's only fairly recently I actually started playing mode myself and since I am doing it on turbo casual mode with random fun build on character that was chosen to the task for all the "silly reasons" ;) and that remark about power thiefs killing themselves on retal is literally reference to one evening few years ago when we wanted to test out few things with a guildmate and I rolled randomly assembled guard build that I was rolling on for the most of time((basically WvW build that was doing fine in PvE) against his power thief and won all engagements untill he swapped to condi build where it ceased to be so bright and shiny for me - this happened like before HoT so considering powercreep and stuff you are free to take that reference with relevantly sized pinch of salt ;) )

    Gs mirage is very popular, as is stealth slb.

    GS mirage is one thing but GS MANTRA mirage is very specific build. Sure I see alot of mirages but considering range whole range of their effectiveness going from "borderline useless 1v1 free kill" to "omg god walking among noobs that carries his whole team" and adding to the mix I'm usually more concerned on having idea what I am doing I may not have exacly time to spend to look on what abilities that mirage is using ;)

    Slb has access to smoke field through smokescale pet and plenty of blast finishers to stack stealth. LB range is affected by height, so if they're on a ledge above you its 1800 range.

    >
    fair nuff, forgot about that smokefield, and blasts were not something class was known for most....

    Here's a fun video of stealth opening on a class with 2.5k armor and 22k hp:

    Lots of counterplay there. Remember, this is a pvp forum so you should probably play pvp amd have an understanding of the meta if you want to comment ;D

    for that vid I'll redirect you again to the rant included in a vid I posted in spoiler tags in my previous posts ;)

    and I'll promtly ignore that frag grenade thrown at my direction after that vid link :P

  • MikeL.8260MikeL.8260 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't mind the changes. I'm not sure why most people fail to see why the 3 second 100% crit is better than next 3 attacks. Unnecessary sure but still a welcome change.
    It's good for both sides, cc or evade (with invul. stealth etc.) the attacker at the right time and you completely negate their burst (not THAT much different from before) while the attacker in turn has more options too.

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