Spirit Watch — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Spirit Watch

Just curious why so many hate playing this map/never picked. Probably the least played map did 11 matches last night and anytime it was up was only 1-2 votes me and my friend. #achievesareimportant

Tagged:

Comments

  • Hoodie.1045Hoodie.1045 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I feel the same way. I never figured out why players seem to either hate this map or just ignore it entirely. Maybe it's because of the orb and how it slows down the carrier that other players have to protect the carrier at all times, resulting in both teams clashing against one another until the orb resets, wasting everyone's time. The second reason could be that both spawn points are relatively close to each other that within 10 seconds, some players are either going to begin the team fight or everyone starts attacking each other next to the orb instead of getting to the mid point and fighting there.

    I for one, really like how Spirit Watch looks and how it is designed. It's not too big, it's got plenty of open space while also having enough teleport spots for professions like thief, mesmer and elementalist can use to traverse the map. It's not like Eternal Coliseum where there's so little cover especially on the mid point where ranged professions can almost shut down melee professions. It's got just enough that it doesn't favor ranged professions over melee professions or vice versa.

  • Kunzaito.8169Kunzaito.8169 Member ✭✭✭

    I have the same issue. I play unranked every day during the offseason, and have picked this map every time it has come up since they launched the map achievements (knowing how much people hate it). I am still at 22/25 wins. The chance of it coming up x the chance of it getting selected x the chance of you actually winning in the garbage fire that is unranked is just so, so low.

    I just keep figuring they'll give it the rework they gave Skyhammer at some point to address whatever it is people don't like and put it in the ranked selection too.

  • Vieux P.1238Vieux P.1238 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's unrank. Anyway Devs from pvp should add check boxes on/off for the maps you want to do in unrank. Keep it simple.

    Winter Nerf is coming!

  • I think it's mainly because of how vertical the map is. The trek to either of the points with the orb in your possession takes longer than it should. Aesthetically, the map is beautiful, but it's just very difficult to traverse. Also, you take quite a hefty fall damage, which can kill you instantly when you are low on health. If you are a kiting build with high vitality, this map is great or if you are a sniping build, there are are a lot of nifty hiding places. But, overall, Spirit Watch is just difficult too play in.

    Also, if you have teammates who don't understand the orb mechanic or who are just starting out in PVP, rotation is a nightmare in Spirit Watch. I believe it's the type of map that players need more practice and training in to understand.

  • Liewec.2896Liewec.2896 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2018

    i hate playing this map because its terrible.

    to elaborate i HATE gimmicky mechanics, give me a map with 3 capture points and no sidequests any-day,
    we've yet to see a map with NO side gimmicks, but that map would instantly be my favourite. (colliseum comes close, hence it gets picked a lot!)

    spiritwatch has one of the most game shifting side-gimmick of them all, it is CTF.
    when they added deathmatch they gave it its own queue (to not annoy players wanting conquest),
    when they added stronghold they gave it its own queue (to not annoy players wanting conquest)
    so howcome when they add CTF it is just hurled into the unrank rotation to annoy those of us who just want to play NORMAL Spvp, conquest.

    (i usually type Spiritwatch with %% instead of the "piri" in "Spirit"...feels strange typing it normally!)

  • @Liewec.2896 said:
    spiritwatch has one of the most game shifting side-gimmick of them all, it is CTF.

    Slapping flag mechanic on top of Conquest is not called CTF, its abomination.
    That's really the issue with Spirit Watch. Pugs get stretch too thin wondering whether to go point or orb and capture point with the orb promotes snowballing once a team wins out. Easiest fix is just remove capture points and have fixed flag destinations and overriding skills like now.

    But I'll just stop here since we've had this discussion monthly if not fortnightly.

    [RED] Crimson Sunspears...your small family guild since 2015.

  • B e s t m a p

  • Rischdara.4137Rischdara.4137 Member
    edited November 1, 2018

    getting these achievements is …. got all the other map-pvp-ones ez just by Playing, in the same time i played spirit watch 1 (!!!) time.

    on other side: each hard acm is fixed to death (which sucks!dont get me wrong)

    but making it even super hard to even get in this map isnt good. i mean there could be done something.

    even if its soemthing like a weekend where only some maps.... or WHATEVER

    dont get me wrong. i dont want them for free (you can higher the numbers in general or so), but Qing for hrs for only geeting in this map doesnt feel right. even while Playing the Fiesta called unranked.

    but i dont think devs will care. its been like that for ages.

  • cuz usually one team ignores the orb completely and it snowballs matches, kinda like Capricorn but worse.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 3, 2018

    I always figured it was because it gave some classes an unfair advantage...

    Take DE rifle on a pillar near the orb for example, it's a no port spot that requires you to run in a giant horse shoe shape to get to the DE (so either go after him and your dead or get out of range and give the enemy a free orb)... Then there's also the clear advantage port classes have like being able to port from the orb to the ledge at mid, completely cutting out travel time that other classes would have to endure.

    few issues with snowballing with Orb then there's also the spawn issues where ranged can hop on a ledge near spawn and spawn camp people before they left the base.. Also spawns are too close to each other, just about every game start ends up being a 4v4 in the pit near orb.

    I think the map has a few too many issues to be in ranked, BUT, if they removed the cap nodes and trimmed out the edges of the maps were nodes are to just leave the pit in the middle, it would make for a good team death match arena or if they removed the pit from the middle to make the map a horse shoe shape, that could work as a fun and intensive conquest map.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    CLICK HERE FOR A FREE SCREEN CLEANING SERVICE
    I miss PvP....

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It is poorly designed all across. It is too large for no reason. The verticality serves no reason but to make it bigger. The nodes have nothing interesting going on around them. The map mechanic is terrible.

  • EnderzShadow.2506EnderzShadow.2506 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 3, 2018

    Game used to be more fun till they made 'changes' to make it pro. /Shrug
    I thought the orb used to make you walk really slow but you could still use abilities.
    I played a sw main hand ranger and while I would be moving slow, I could use the leaps from sword 2-well that and traps made it fun.

    I love that so many of you hate it.
    If it comes up in unranked, Ill pick it e v e r y s i n g l e F ' I N G t i m e , not that I like it so much anymore, but because of how angry it makes you.

    mhm, ok, sure, whatever you say, no after you, I insist, no really, please, be my guest,

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Certain classes benefit way more from Spirit Watch than other classes -- Thieves and mesmers in particular. Classes without any teleports (warriors, engineers) are at a much more severe disadvantage.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Exedore.6320Exedore.6320 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 3, 2018

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:
    Game used to be more fun till they made 'changes' to make it pro. /Shrug
    I thought the orb used to make you walk really slow but you could still use abilities.
    I played a sw main hand ranger and while I would be moving slow, I could use the leaps from sword 2-well that and traps made it fun.

    I love that so many of you hate it.
    If it comes up in unranked, Ill pick it e v e r y s i n g l e F ' I N G t i m e , not that I like it so much anymore, but because of how angry it makes you.

    So you can leap with the orb, but a thief or elemental can't teleport with it. This inconsistency with special rules is why orb is an awful mechanic.

  • Crius.5487Crius.5487 Member ✭✭✭

    If they just got rid of the orb and left it as a true conquest map with no other objectives than it would be fine.

  • I like your e D g E

    But yeah I remember the time druid's 33% movement speed trait is not affected by orb, easy wins.

    [RED] Crimson Sunspears...your small family guild since 2015.

  • Exedore.6320Exedore.6320 Member ✭✭✭

    @Crius.5487 said:
    If they just got rid of the orb and left it as a true conquest map with no other objectives than it would be fine.

    Spirit Watch is bad as a conquest map too.

  • A lot of the complaints i hear about Spirit Watch can actually apply to Colosseum as well which is almost always picked. Classes with teleport's have a much larger advantage than ones that have to run around to get to middle. As for the orb gimmick it is really not much different than watching people fight over mobs in forest or stillness/tranq in temple or hammer for skyhammer.

    Feel like the solution is to put in an option that you can select certain maps or like someone said make a weekend event where only certain maps are available.

  • Spirit Watch revisions are something I'd really like us to get to. I'm hoping to try to fit it in early next year.

    Ben Phongluangtham
    Game Designer
    Reddit: ANET_BenP
    Twitch: AnetBenP

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 9, 2018

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Spirit Watch revisions are something I'd really like us to get to. I'm hoping to try to fit it in early next year.

    My thoughts on Spirit Watch:

    1. Too vertical. Classes with teleports have a severe advantage.
    2. Orb mechanic is extremely un-fun. Picking it up means you move 50% slower and can't use any of your normal skills for a long period of time. It's boring but necessary when playing this map. This map will never be a successful in ranked with the Orb in place.
    3. Points are too far apart. They are located on the outer edges of the map which means the majority of your time spent in the match is running along the outskirts. As such, the mid node isn't as important as there are other ways to access the side nodes. The mid node feels small and unimportant.

    It might be interesting to have a walled elevator that activates only for the team that holds the mid point, although that might lead to a snowball effect.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Spirit Watch revisions are something I'd really like us to get to. I'm hoping to try to fit it in early next year.

    Just curious Ben, mechanically wise how likely it is develop a pure CTF map without conquest points in GW2 system?

    Will have to see how 2v2 turns out, but I think PvP population is hungry for non-conquest modes and Spirit Watch revamp could mean something new.

    [RED] Crimson Sunspears...your small family guild since 2015.

  • Kunzaito.8169Kunzaito.8169 Member ✭✭✭

    In my experience a lot of the frustration with the orb comes with the (very common) situation where only one player from each side bothers to go for it. So whoever channels it just gets burst down. Maybe it's because it's unranked and there's often little emphasis on team play, but I feel like if people played the mechanic "as intended" it would be more fun. If each team really worked together to channel, protect, and escort (or assault the escort) of the orb each time it would theoretically force more fighting and provide an opportunity for support specs to really shine. Like a dolyak escort in wvw.

    Of course, that would still mean with random comps and maps that luck could play a huge part - say, the other team getting a support FB and you don't.

    I agree, though, that the rotation strategy for this map in many situations is unclear. In the likely event that players from both teams are respawning at the same time it mostly devolves into haphazard skirmishing in the orb area. Once a team establishes control at the outset if they have any snipers they can really control the flow as people try to run... somewhere... but don't have a clear path to get there. If you fall behind there isn't really a clear mixup strategy like other maps (switch to home/far, lord feint, focus hammer or tranq, etc.)

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yeah, Spirit Watch feels very weird to play in.
    Feels like it has 3 side nodes instead of 2 side nodes and a mid node. The "mid" node, Raven, usually is the least contested node unlike in all other maps. The "team fight" in this map tends to happen around Wolf because it has the most flat ground, or around the Orb without anyone bothering to try and claim it. That's not really relevant to why it's disliked though. A different feel is exactly what we need.

    I think that the biggest issues on this map are the areas around the Orbs spawn point, and the Orb mechanic itself. A third issue is that teleports are far too good in this map.
    The area around the Orb needs more LoS IMO, it's far too easy to rain down AoEs from the ledges and gangways around it. On the other hand, there's way too much LoS between the points. The high ground advantage is real.
    The Orb needs to be available all the time(unless it's already being carried) but be worth less, maybe only 10 points. It also shouldn't reduce movement speed, shouldn't remove your skills and Swiftness and Superspeed shouldn't be disabled. Ports and Invulns should still drop the Orb. That way it would valuable to have a "flag runner" but mesmers couldn't Portal-cheese the Orb.
    The teleport issue could relieved by adding a direct way of walking from the Orb to Raven, and opening up the Raven ledge area a bit more. Currently if you port to the ledge in front of Raven, it'll give you a good 20 to 30 seconds of peace from the warrior that was chasing you because he has to go around. Unless he drops the chase entirely. A good thief will never ever die on this map.

    A personal issue I have with the map is that it has too many bottlenecks which makes it bad as a Conquest map but is mandatory for a CTF map. IMO you need to decide which one this map is, and enforce that decision with design.

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 I just had a thought I wanted to ask about. Why exactly is it that all Conquest maps have 3 nodes to capture? Is it just a fundamental constant of the mode or is that up for debate? Just feels like SW as a map might work better with only 2 nodes, which would increase the importance of the secondary mechanic.

  • Durzlla.6295Durzlla.6295 Member ✭✭✭

    I have literally 0 idea how they could change spirit watch to make it ranked competitive but to keep its core of being a largely vertical map with the orb. I love spirit watch, and really want it to be ranked though.

    "But my children sing to me. Listen. They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family. As their mother, I have to grant them their wish."

  • Exedore.6320Exedore.6320 Member ✭✭✭

    @Yannir.4132 said:
    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 I just had a thought I wanted to ask about. Why exactly is it that all Conquest maps have 3 nodes to capture? Is it just a fundamental constant of the mode or is that up for debate? Just feels like SW as a map might work better with only 2 nodes, which would increase the importance of the secondary mechanic.

    You need more than 2 nodes.

    The way it works with 3 nodes is that if Team A is ahead and controls 2 or 3 nodes, Team B has options of where to attack and how to split. Team B could attack as a full team against Team A. But Team B also has the option to split up and go for other nodes, forcing Team A to also rotate and split forces. Odds are that Team B will win at least one fight. The back-and-forth caused by splitting up forces adds a layer of strategy beyond a single team fight, which keeps it interesting and competitive.

    If you had only two nodes, Team A would capture one and pressure the other. Then the whole Team A would just stays together. Team B is forced to win a 5v5 fight to stay relevant in the game. If Team B tries to split, they only gain 1 of 2 points. But since Team A held two points for longer, they have an advantage and can just camp the node they're currently on. So it forces Team B into the 5v5 fight or losing. At that point, it's no different than Courtyard.

  • Would be cool if it was capture the flag .Each team has their node, no capping/decapping, and the teams fight over who will bring the the orb to theirs.Multiple orbs should spawn on different locations at the same time.When the teams bring the orb to their node they get increased point generation something like Temple of the Silent Storm or permanent +1 point bonus per tick.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 9, 2018

    @Durzlla.6295 said:
    I have literally 0 idea how they could change spirit watch to make it ranked competitive but to keep its core of being a largely vertical map with the orb. I love spirit watch, and really want it to be ranked though.

    Some ideas:

    1. Turn the Orb into a fourth capture node.
    2. Swap Orb/Mid Locations and make the Orb work the same as Tranquility on Temple (spawning twice a game). Make the mid point as big as Legacy Mid.
  • SaltyDogs.9073SaltyDogs.9073 Member ✭✭
    edited November 10, 2018

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Durzlla.6295 said:
    I have literally 0 idea how they could change spirit watch to make it ranked competitive but to keep its core of being a largely vertical map with the orb. I love spirit watch, and really want it to be ranked though.

    Some ideas:

    1. Turn the Orb into a fourth capture node.
    2. Swap Orb/Mid Locations and make the Orb work the same as Tranquility on Temple (spawning twice a game). Make the mid point as big as Legacy Mid.

    You might as well play on Revenge of the Capricorn or Temple of the Silent Storm, respectively. Unless you meant a constantly present 4th node, then that might be pretty neat.

  • Aktium.9506Aktium.9506 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 10, 2018

    Make the map only have two permanently capped capture points, remove mid. Have 4 different randomized orb spawns in the mid area(all the same distance from the capture points). Make players able to throw the orb to another player within 600 range on a 30 second cooldown. Disable weapon skills while holding orb.

    Alternatively just commit fully to the CTF theme. Have one red orb spawning at red cap and one blue orb spawning at blue cap. Need to bring blue orb to red cap to score and vice versa. No movement speed decrease, no channel to pick it up, can't use portals or stealth with orbs and picking it up reduces max health to 50% while carrying it. Widen the map a bit so there's 2-3 more routes to take between caps. Maybe lengthen it as well. Touching your own teams dropped orb teleports it back to the cap again. As for side objective, 2 minutes into the game a channel to summon superspeed pads spawn. 4 minutes into the game a channel to summon jump pads spawns.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SaltyDogs.9073 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Durzlla.6295 said:
    I have literally 0 idea how they could change spirit watch to make it ranked competitive but to keep its core of being a largely vertical map with the orb. I love spirit watch, and really want it to be ranked though.

    Some ideas:

    1. Turn the Orb into a fourth capture node.
    2. Swap Orb/Mid Locations and make the Orb work the same as Tranquility on Temple (spawning twice a game). Make the mid point as big as Legacy Mid.

    You might as well play on Revenge of the Capricorn or Temple of the Silent Storm, respectively. Unless you meant a constantly present 4th node, then that might be pretty neat.

    Yeah, four capture nodes on the map instead of three.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think if the mid point and the orb switch locations the map will be much better.

  • Durzlla.6295Durzlla.6295 Member ✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:
    I think if the mid point and the orb switch locations the map will be much better.

    You know what, that would make it more interesting, would turn mid point into an absolute blood bath though lol

    "But my children sing to me. Listen. They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family. As their mother, I have to grant them their wish."

  • Abazigal.3679Abazigal.3679 Member ✭✭✭

    And why not adapting to the map, which isn't so bad, instead of thinking of nerfs.. I mean today you can win all maps by doing the same, running the same compo. Why not having a map where you can have alternative ways of winning and where some other builds would be rewarded ?

    In GW1 hall of heroes, you couldn't reroll during matchs, so you had to adapt your build thinking of deathmatch maps, relic running map, shrine capping map, holding matchs, 3v3 maps etc.. Now we have the ability to reroll/adapt builds regarding the map, and people refuse to adapt to relic running. That's a bit strange..

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.