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MisterDapper.5984
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Sigils and runes during Raids
MisterDapper.5984
Member ✭✭
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/november-13-salvage-runes-and-sigils/
chrono tanks got screwed by the sigil of concentration nerf. If you recently made a chrono tank you just lost a ton of gold.
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Good changes and hopefully just the start of things to come.
But as usual theres always someone doing a Kneejerk reaction.
Uhhh.. yes, the ferocity does make up for that. It's like a 2% damage loss, for every DPS. Big deal.
Sigil got power taken away, some got put into runes. If you want the optimal setup you'll need a combo of both for it. But yeah, Concentration Sigil is the biggest loser in all of this most likely
/shrug wait until you see it. This is a long needed update and you're overreacting over 1 "bad" thing you see
Bite me.
Have you done the math to come to that conclusion?
On a complementary note to what the other people said, they are massively changing every rune and sigil in the game and there might be new combinations that more than make up for the loss of DPS in most cases. Also the loss is trivial and most groups are already well over the minimum DPS on every single boss. Your above-average Dhuum run finishes well around 2:25 and it's not uncommon to finish Qadim with several minutes remaining on the timer, etc.
Same goes for sigil of concentration that was unnecessarily OP with 2 chronos already over-buffing the entire squad. I didn't even use it myself for example and no one ever noticed. I might buy one now since it'll be cheaper but there might be even better options lying around, specially as far as runes are concerned, they might change a lot of things. I'm personally excited for this.
I retract my former statement.
Still really sucks for anyone who recently got into chrono tanking. If they're going to make this big of change. Some kind of compensation should be provided imo. My guildmate just lost a ton of gold because she made it a few days ago.
Laughs in legendary armor
Torn on the Sigil of Concentration change, equipping more concentration gear feels bad but the changes to Scholar narrow the gap between <90% and >90% greatly. The loss of 5% damage will affect conditions the most... which are are more less or neglectable. On the other side, 125 ferocity is no joke and having said bonus up at all times is very nice actually. (Chip damage is a thing)
Scholar never touched condi for damage boost. That’s why renegade runes and zerker runes were so good.
I always thought concentration sigil was stupid, I've never ran one, always choosing to use force/accuracy with more boon gear on an off-tank build, and water/transference on a healing chrono build.
Thats the life of strictly chasing the meta. No they shouldn't be refunded. Just 2 weeks ago we had this reddit thread:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/9qirmv/raiding_on_a_budget_week_1_27g_support/
Your guild mate didn't have to jump into raiding by making a super expensive build. Many raiders start raiding with cheap builds to build up the resources to easily gear up the more expensive stuff. They could have made a cheap build, they chose not to.
Scholar damage boost is on power (condi was never in the equation, unless stated like Sigil of Bursting).
New scholar rune : +125 ferocity = 8% (8.33% to be exact), plus additional 5% while HP above 90%. (Previously 10% dmg while HP above 90%). 13% in total sounds like a buff to me, and more viable too since players still retains 8% while HP below the threshold.
Could tell you how many Sigils of Concentraton I own and use over many, many characters. Some of which are META and some are certainly not but this in itself already shows how broken that sigil is. And that always made it obvious that they might eventually do something about it. Buying expensive items always comes at a risk in this game. We have had many instances of ArenaNet introducing new ways of acquiring rare stuff or reintroducing certain expensive items later on. Sucks to be your friend but it is hardly any particularly big "loss".
Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein
If it rly is 8 then it id 13.4% because those 5'percent increse the damage from fereocity too
It's a nerf if you are above ~375 ferocity and a buff below with 100% scholar uptime. So it's actually a buff for Holo for example since he has only one weak ferocity trait and loses scholar during overheat.
100% scholar uptime wasn't achievable on every fight anyways so it should be a buff on most bosses.
My math could also be completely off, feel free to correct me.
It's not that simple. You have to look at the increase you gain over your current critical damage to get damage gained by that ferocity, different for each build.
Then you have to multiply the values instead of adding them since the 5% damage increases the critical damage aswell.
it's 8% critical damage
like if your build has 250% crit damage when fully buffed, that 8% increases it by 258/250 = 1.032 times = 3.2% damage increase
I don't know about tanks,. but as a zerker/commander fractal chrono this won't be much of a hit. I'll just re-equip a few commander pieces to make up for the loss.
"Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.
Yea. The change to soc will not change meta (chrono will be even more matadory because this kills quickness firebrand). Just you would take reqular gear for chaos. What does this do is it removes dps (non chaos) chrono options and also makes the rotation mire boring
Woops
! You and reikken.4961 are both right, I totally ommitted it's crit dmg. Result does seems to be lower(nerf), by 1.5%-ish(?). Assuming 100% crit chance and with HP above 90% entire time...
You need to go to Auric to panic. Changing those zerk pieces to commander will get this boon duration back to 100% .
Or crono tank will simply abandon that old build and run minstrel
Or something else. People are resourceful. As far as crono is the only class that gets you alacrity and so much boons with quickness . It will never get screwed
"There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."
Can someone clarify if the new scholar rune gives 125 ferocity while you are above 90% or always and the threshold only refers to the flat 5% bonus?
I assume it's just like that because there is a semicolon dividing the two.
Also thanks for the clarification about Scholar not affecting Condi.
Its a nerf if your current scholar uptime is above ~70% for most classes, 65% to 75% if you want to include all classes.
But yeah, the nerf isnt that big and really depends on your ferocity. The more ferocity you have before the patch, the harder the nerf will be. Still pretty small though.
Most builds are Soulbeast and Weaver if my math isn't completely off.
Its 2750/2625 * 1.05 = 1.1
Means threshold is 375 with the excluded 50% base ciritcal damage. How did you get your scholar uptime values? Am i missing something?
EDIT: Missed the 1.0 base damage :-(.
Probably wasnt clear on that, but the values are compared to the new scholar rune.
Basically if you dont have any food/runes/traits that give you ferocity the break even point is 75% uptime. If you do the Math with several classes and add the ferocity they get from traits food and stuff like that the break even point goes down to 65%. Basically if your group sucks with healing or you are facetanking every mechanic, you are still getting buffed with the new rune. The change rewards bad gameplay while (slightly) punishing good groups.
I was only adding to your math since you did it under the assumption of 100% scholar uptime.
I get it now. Forgot something unnecessary like base damage. Well yeah even the worst pug groups had scholar uptimes above 80% so its just a nerf to all power builds and especially high ferocity builds like fresh air weaver.
But who knows. Maybe they will destroy sigil of force and change it to ferocity aswell.
I dont use it on druid and still hit 60+% boon duration
Thats generally cause Druid run Harriers, Harrier being a three stat combo has more concentration on the gear while Commander is a 4-stat
if you're only doing a rough estimation, the number crunching that came up with a friend, is take the % critical damage gain, and divide by 2 (assuming 100% crit chance). It's not exact, but it gives a decent estimate that doesn't require number crunching for every build.
Now considering a dev suggested 125 fero was 3-4% dmg, depending on situation - it seems anet has come to a similar conclusion. ( I'll link the comment when i find it again)
So new scholar is going to give ~ 9% > 90%hp, and ~4% below 90% hp, as opposed to 10% & 0%. So for benchmarks/golem tests - it's a nerf. However in most* "real"** situations it's likely to end up being a buff.
*most situations where dps is going to make an ounce of difference
** as real as video games get.
edit:
This is the thread with the dev comment about estimated effect on dps from ferocity. Dev post is not far down the first page.
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/59773/runes-and-sigils-rework-at-11-13/p1
people: concentration sigil nerf??? yay!!! chrono nerf!!! yay!!!!!!
reality: concentration sigil nerf?? /gg firebrand+rev
Yes i did that and its a massive nerf in almost all situations. Both combined are just 8.4% for Holo with almost no ferocity bonus from traits. Scholar uptime above 90% was normal on most bosses. Sometimes even 100%.
Its just a 7.9% damage increase for fresh air weaver while attuned to air. Its just a straight rune nerf.
Firebrand could provide more then 100% quickness anyway. Its just a matter of taking conc food over burn duration (at least thats what I did) and you should be fine and thats assuming you're a Quickness FB and not a support FB which has ~74% quickness with Harriers without food or buffs.
Nah, gotta bring it in line with Concentration and Malice and buff it to 10%. /s
5% damage is basically 150 power in full dps gear and roughly 200 power in raid buffs. That's pretty much on par with the malice sigil already. Perhaps they'll make it a 4% boost to keep things aligned.
What this mostly does is actually indirectly buff chrono by heavily nerfing the only things that are sort of competitive with it, offensive alacrity renegade and quickness firebrand builds. These builds use sigil of concentration to inflate their boon duration while still being able to run mostly offensive gear everywhere else. Now they can't won't be able to get nearly as much boon duration without going heavily into gear with concentration stats, at which point they lose their superior personal dps which is the only thing they have going for them over chrono. GG anet, but we will see.
Idk. if you missed the /s or just wanted to explain thing, but yeah. Buffing Force Sigil would be ridiculous.
We could have a herald camping dragon stance and facet of nature to replace it
At around 9% total dmg done by burning and 250% critdmg, rune of the flame legion outclasses scholar, without the 90%hp restriction. This is the case for sword power weaver.
Viable != Optimal
Not viable = You only get carried, 10 players with a build as "viable as yours" can't properly do it.
The Cocentration sigil "nerf" certainly affected some specs more than others but it hardly killed Firebrands or Renegades. The former doesn't require above 80% boon duration to provide perma Quickness (even if that may be a little less forgiving) while the latter is able to gear heavily into Harrier or Giver in combination with Water runes to cover the lost duration.
My actual gripe with these changes is the even further reduced variety in useful supportive rune sets or sigils. Monk is all there is with very few exception. The buff pretty much covers for the Healing Power you lost on some of the min-maxed Druid builds while being a straight up 10% buff to those who already ran a full Harrier set to begin with while Altruism runes are pretty much dead having lost their Fury.
Concentration sigil is more of a must-have than ever now as most Runes had their Boon Duration nerfed and even more so the removal of supposedly unreliable "on swap" trigger of said sigil which kept many from using them. They simply continues to be too efficient as far as min-maxing boons in combination with healing is concerned. 10% Boon Duration equals 150 Concentration stats which aren't easy to min-max as they don't come as the main stat on any gear as well as the fact that you lose out on 10%+-17% Outgoing Healing each if you replace any part of the Delicious Rice Ball + Bountiful Maintenance Oil combo.
Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein