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Stealth Rework 2.0


Swagger.1459

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These are 2 suggestions I’d like to propose for Stealth mechanics in wvw AND spvp....

1- This would be the simplified suggestion...

Stealth effects used while out of combat or not Revealed- Same as now. Skills function to make the player(s) not visible.

Stealth effects while a player is flagged for combat or Revealed- Player(s) remain visible, but visually translucent (“cloaked” if you will). Stealth skills used while in combat are treated as a damage mitigation Boon, similar to Protection. This Boon could offer 20% damage reduction to Direct and Condition damages while in effect.

Sample scenario-

Mesmer drops https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mass_Invisibility on their team to get the jump on a group or to break targeting. Then enemy necros drop AoEs revealing the Mesmer’s group and flagging them for combat. Although the Mesmer’s group is now visible, they are translucent and carry a “cloak” damage mitigation buff of -20% to Direct and Condition damage for the duration of the Mass Invisible skill.

OR

2- In addition to increasing boon duration, Concentration could be a stat that provides a player Stealth “perception”....

So let’s look at some simple numbers...

10% Concentration would provide 100 radius Stealth perception.

22% Concentration would provide 220 radius Stealth perception.

43% Concentration would provide 430 radius Stealth perception.

...

...

100% Concentration would provide 1,000 radius Stealth perception... and this is where it is maxed.

(As above) Additionally, all Stealth skills could be worked to provide X% power and condition damage reduction while Stealth is active so it would still be useful even if detected...

Reveal remains as is to prevent the use of the “invisibility” portion of Stealth...

Changes like these provide better counterplay to Stealth. It creates more useful build options with gears and foods. Stealth now becomes more of a safety skill, and requires more intelligent use, as opposed to allowing players to attack freely from any position on the battlefield without fear...

These ideas would bring balance to Stealth mechanics in the game.

Ty for reading!

Edit- And before any Thief players QQ...

Max perception range for idea 2 is 1,000. Steal is 1,200. Shadowstep 1,200. Rifle Attacks 1,200/1,500. 2 Infiltrator’s Arrows take you 1,800 if you need to move in or escape... So I don’t want to hear any complaints about not being able to use Stealth to attempt an ambush.

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@Swagger.1459 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:So basicly, concentration make you squint harder to see stealth.

That actually makes sense.

Lol basically...

In game terms is could be explained as... “Concentration enhances your senses to be able to detect and perceive invisible foes...” or whatever.

wouldnt the thief with concentration also be better at stealthing so you wouldnt see him if you tried? basically 100% concentraion on both = normal stealth?

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@MUDse.7623 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:So basicly, concentration make you squint harder to see stealth.

That actually makes sense.

Lol basically...

In game terms is could be explained as... “Concentration enhances your senses to be able to detect and perceive invisible foes...” or whatever.

wouldnt the thief with concentration also be better at stealthing so you wouldnt see him if you tried? basically 100% concentraion on both = normal stealth?

^I think that would be a fair compromise. If a thief goes concentration then the stealth values would be enhanced. It would also mean that every class if they wanted to see stealth or be more effective at stealth would have to invest outside of pure damage stats.

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@MUDse.7623 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:So basicly, concentration make you squint harder to see stealth.

That actually makes sense.

Lol basically...

In game terms is could be explained as... “Concentration enhances your senses to be able to detect and perceive invisible foes...” or whatever.

wouldnt the thief with concentration also be better at stealthing so you wouldnt see him if you tried? basically 100% concentraion on both = normal stealth?

I didn’t include that in the suggestion.

A thief with this type of Concentration rework would gain perception like any other user with Concentration.

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@Shagaliscious.6281 said:So the way I am interpreting this, a thief would not be able to backstab you at all? I mean, you can get stealth on steal with SA, but if you aren't running DE, that stealth would immediately get revealed, since you steal to your target.

You have to separate perception and Revealed for this scenario. 2 different things as noted by the mention of Reveal.

A thief would still gain access to the backstab skill if the thief has the Stealth buff active... For all intents and purposes it becomes a heavy hitting skill from the flank or back. Is this a sufficient explanation?

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@Swagger.1459 said:

@Turk.5460 said:I'm sorry you dislike Thieves so much, OP.

I have a Thief, but thanks for the assumption.

doesnt mean that you like the thief or his stealth.you know with such high ranges possible to see stealthed players, the ambush would have to be very certain leading to your death. so if anet ever decides to put something like that in, there is a big chance it comes along with backstab damage increased by 100%. i am sure everyone will be happy :3

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@MUDse.7623 said:

@Turk.5460 said:I'm sorry you dislike Thieves so much, OP.

I have a Thief, but thanks for the assumption.

doesnt mean that you like the thief or his stealth.you know with such high ranges possible to see stealthed players, the ambush would have to be very certain leading to your death. so if anet ever decides to put something like that in, there is a big chance it comes along with backstab damage increased by 100%. i am sure everyone will be happy :3

The backstab skill would still perform the same while the Thief had the Stealth buff on them... regardless of being detected or not.

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@Swagger.1459 said:

@Turk.5460 said:I'm sorry you dislike Thieves so much, OP.

I have a Thief, but thanks for the assumption.

doesnt mean that you like the thief or his stealth.you know with such high ranges possible to see stealthed players, the ambush would have to be very certain leading to your death. so if anet ever decides to put something like that in, there is a big chance it comes along with backstab damage increased by 100%. i am sure everyone will be happy :3

The backstab skill would still perform the same while the Thief had the Stealth buff on them... regardless of being detected or not.

i understand that you wish that. like people when they didnt want deadeyes to build the malice passively probably did not wish them to get tools to safer go in an out of stealth, but thats what we got. be careful what you ask for, you may get it - with addition.

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We have reveals in this game as a counter to stealth,i dont see why there needs to be even more counter,we already have stealth traps aswell to counter it being the only item to counter a mechanic of a class.If you want to counter stealth,use your holos/rangers/warri and slot reveal,hell nec even has a reveal.

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I think one of the best nerfs to stealth would be that you automatically drop stealth when using a skill and get a 3-5 sec reveal after that. Rework backstab that the "hit from stealth" works 2 seconds after breaking stealth. Delete the deadeye reveal removal or put a 120 seconds cd on it.

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@Swagger.1459 said:In addition to increasing boon duration, Concentration could be a stat that provides a player Stealth “perception”....

Edit- And before any Thief players QQ...

Max perception range is 1,000. Steal is 1,200. Shadowstep 1,200. Rifle Attacks 1,200/1,500. 2 Infiltrator’s Arrows take you 1,800 if you need to move in or escape... So I don’t want to hear any complaints about not being able to use Stealth to attempt an ambush.

I like the concept, but it's just going to promote more people to running condi evade spam thief and deadeye because backstab wont be a usable skill anymore. Making more braindead players. Dagger thief already hits like a wet noodle right now unless you are running crit strikes and/or assasins signet. As far as dealing with deadeye, it's all a out matchups certain 1v1s the deadeye should always win, and others it should lose. Generally if you have gap close and immob, they are super easy to deal with.

If your having issues with thieves in stealth then play one for a hot second. Most of them are highly predictable.

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@myboybuzzy.5809 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:In addition to increasing boon duration, Concentration could be a stat that provides a player Stealth “perception”....

Edit- And before any Thief players QQ...

Max perception range is 1,000. Steal is 1,200. Shadowstep 1,200. Rifle Attacks 1,200/1,500. 2 Infiltrator’s Arrows take you 1,800 if you need to move in or escape... So I don’t want to hear any complaints about not being able to use Stealth to attempt an ambush.

I like the concept, but it's just going to promote more people to running condi evade spam thief and deadeye because backstab wont be a usable skill anymore. Making more braindead players. Dagger thief already hits like a wet noodle right now unless you are running crit strikes and/or assasins signet. As far as dealing with deadeye, it's all a out matchups certain 1v1s the deadeye should always win, and others it should lose. Generally if you have gap close and immob, they are super easy to deal with.

If your having issues with thieves in stealth then play one for a hot second. Most of them are highly predictable.

A quote by me from earlier.

“The backstab skill would still perform the same while the Thief had the Stealth buff on them... regardless of being detected or not.”... Same as all the other skills that do extra from the flank or back.

Being perceived or detected doesn’t remove the stealth buff. It’s all treated normally, except stealth on a character now gains x% power and condi damage reduction.

Revealed removes the stealth buff.

The difference now is that a thief can’t just remain invisible in close quarters against a player running Concentration in their build. The thief can hide out outside of range, gap close as normal... and fight in melee to short range while being seen by the player, or run to escape death... Hanging out in melee becomes riskier because a thief can’t just constant stealth over and over to remain unseen.

And I have a thief.

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@MUDse.7623 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:So basicly, concentration make you squint harder to see stealth.

That actually makes sense.

Lol basically...

In game terms is could be explained as... “Concentration enhances your senses to be able to detect and perceive invisible foes...” or whatever.

wouldnt the thief with concentration also be better at stealthing so you wouldnt see him if you tried? basically 100% concentraion on both = normal stealth?

I'd say, expertise fits that better name wise, but i think concentration is better balance-wise.Also, instead of just removing stealth, or stealth duration, it should make the character more and more opaque. So minimal concentration benefit would make you see outlines, kind of like the predator, and the more benefit you get the better you see the guy, but never fully de-stealthed.

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@Swagger.1459 said:

“The backstab skill would still perform the same while the Thief had the Stealth buff on them... regardless of being detected or not.”... Same as all the other skills that do extra from the flank or back.

Being perceived or detected doesn’t remove the stealth buff. It’s all treated normally, except stealth on a character now gains x% power and condi damage reduction.

And I have a thief.

Didn't pick up on that, my bad.

It could work and be a cool mechanic, I think they would have to buff some weapon skills damage for it to he balanced. Honestly it would probably effect mesmers more as many of them rely on stealth to land thier initial burst.

I personally feel that stealth is pretty balanced accept for deadeye, but even they aren't that bad to deal with.

War has reveal and rediculous survivability even without toughness and vitality with things like full counter, endure pain. Adrenal health, and a lot of access to resistance.

Rev has high burst damage potential, glint heal, reveal, cc, blocks evades, gap closes, and some aoe.

Guard has reveal blocks, heals and potential for some rediculous dps. I have the most trouble on 1v1s against good core guards, but that's probably because I've spent the least amount of time on guard.

Ranger has reveal, aoe, lots of mobility, blocks, and evades for days. Not to mention the pet with sometimes tracks stealth.

Engi has aoe, reveal on hit, double elixir s, and can be crazy hunky with traits like iron blooded, need I say more..

Thief vs thief is some of the most fun 1v1 can get. This is where the real outlays happen

Necro is the one that is can have trouble with stealth, primarily deadeye. However I only see potentially scourge running concentration and you already get punished enough for being up close to a scourge.

Ele is is packed with reflects, has a trait where you cant crit against them, invulns, to a of sustain, cc and a few blocks.

Mesmer is pretty easily counter with theif, but has tons of evades, stealth, invulns, and mobility. I dont see this change effecting this 1v1 except hurting power mirage even more.

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