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Spirit Watch


Shadows Creed.3902

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@Yannir.4132 said:@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 I just had a thought I wanted to ask about. Why exactly is it that all Conquest maps have 3 nodes to capture? Is it just a fundamental constant of the mode or is that up for debate? Just feels like SW as a map might work better with only 2 nodes, which would increase the importance of the secondary mechanic.You need more than 2 nodes.

The way it works with 3 nodes is that if Team A is ahead and controls 2 or 3 nodes, Team B has options of where to attack and how to split. Team B could attack as a full team against Team A. But Team B also has the option to split up and go for other nodes, forcing Team A to also rotate and split forces. Odds are that Team B will win at least one fight. The back-and-forth caused by splitting up forces adds a layer of strategy beyond a single team fight, which keeps it interesting and competitive.

If you had only two nodes, Team A would capture one and pressure the other. Then the whole Team A would just stays together. Team B is forced to win a 5v5 fight to stay relevant in the game. If Team B tries to split, they only gain 1 of 2 points. But since Team A held two points for longer, they have an advantage and can just camp the node they're currently on. So it forces Team B into the 5v5 fight or losing. At that point, it's no different than Courtyard.

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Would be cool if it was capture the flag .Each team has their node, no capping/decapping, and the teams fight over who will bring the the orb to theirs.Multiple orbs should spawn on different locations at the same time.When the teams bring the orb to their node they get increased point generation something like Temple of the Silent Storm or permanent +1 point bonus per tick.

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@Durzlla.6295 said:I have literally 0 idea how they could change spirit watch to make it ranked competitive but to keep its core of being a largely vertical map with the orb. I love spirit watch, and really want it to be ranked though.

Some ideas:

  1. Turn the Orb into a fourth capture node.
  2. Swap Orb/Mid Locations and make the Orb work the same as Tranquility on Temple (spawning twice a game). Make the mid point as big as Legacy Mid.
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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Durzlla.6295 said:I have literally 0 idea how they could change spirit watch to make it ranked competitive but to keep its core of being a largely vertical map with the orb. I love spirit watch, and really want it to be ranked though.

Some ideas:
  1. Turn the Orb into a fourth capture node.
  2. Swap Orb/Mid Locations and make the Orb work the same as Tranquility on Temple (spawning twice a game). Make the mid point as big as Legacy Mid.

You might as well play on Revenge of the Capricorn or Temple of the Silent Storm, respectively. Unless you meant a constantly present 4th node, then that might be pretty neat.

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Make the map only have two permanently capped capture points, remove mid. Have 4 different randomized orb spawns in the mid area(all the same distance from the capture points). Make players able to throw the orb to another player within 600 range on a 30 second cooldown. Disable weapon skills while holding orb.

Alternatively just commit fully to the CTF theme. Have one red orb spawning at red cap and one blue orb spawning at blue cap. Need to bring blue orb to red cap to score and vice versa. No movement speed decrease, no channel to pick it up, can't use portals or stealth with orbs and picking it up reduces max health to 50% while carrying it. Widen the map a bit so there's 2-3 more routes to take between caps. Maybe lengthen it as well. Touching your own teams dropped orb teleports it back to the cap again. As for side objective, 2 minutes into the game a channel to summon superspeed pads spawn. 4 minutes into the game a channel to summon jump pads spawns.

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@SaltyDogs.9073 said:

@Durzlla.6295 said:I have literally 0 idea how they could change spirit watch to make it ranked competitive but to keep its core of being a largely vertical map with the orb. I love spirit watch, and really want it to be ranked though.

Some ideas:
  1. Turn the Orb into a fourth capture node.
  2. Swap Orb/Mid Locations and make the Orb work the same as Tranquility on Temple (spawning twice a game). Make the mid point as big as Legacy Mid.

You might as well play on Revenge of the Capricorn or Temple of the Silent Storm, respectively. Unless you meant a constantly present 4th node, then that might be pretty neat.

Yeah, four capture nodes on the map instead of three.

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And why not adapting to the map, which isn't so bad, instead of thinking of nerfs.. I mean today you can win all maps by doing the same, running the same compo. Why not having a map where you can have alternative ways of winning and where some other builds would be rewarded ?

In GW1 hall of heroes, you couldn't reroll during matchs, so you had to adapt your build thinking of deathmatch maps, relic running map, shrine capping map, holding matchs, 3v3 maps etc.. Now we have the ability to reroll/adapt builds regarding the map, and people refuse to adapt to relic running. That's a bit strange..

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  • 1 year later...

I remember that I liked the map a bit back then 2013. My 2nd favorite map after Temple I think. While Temple got a graet change (removing the 2 buffs that add more points on kills) Spirit Watch seems boring now to me.

Have only tried it a few times though. (There is no good way to queue for it regularly until you play lots of unranked and get lucky with people voting it.) I dislike that the orb spawns less often. I dislike that you can't use your profession skills. While this seems like they have done it with the intent to balance ... it makes the map feel "boring". And as long as it is in unranked only ... I don't see why it shouldn't be "fun" (even if it is unbalanced) instead.

The map itself is horrible for conquest. Vertical setup makes the ways to the other capture points pretty long. And yet conquest is the main thing giving points since the orb does not spawn that often. (Honestly having it spawn more often but with less points per delivered orb ... was a lot better. You could go for orbs constantly even though conquest was still in the map.)

Removing conquest completely would have been an interesting step. (Then making 1 extra queue like Stronghold and call it "capture the flag".)Not being able to use your profession skills (but orb skills instead) makes it also less fun. Yeah more balanced. But teams could coordinate and let the player with the "best" skills use the orb. I as rifle engineer liked back then 2013 when I played to use knockback shot (rifle 4) the last moment when people immobilized me. (Throwing my back to the cap point with the orb.)

It can also be strategically interesting to use knockbacks and stuff to attack the orb carrier (or his team mates defending him).

But if the orb is not that important because it spawns only every few minutes ... the map gets less interesting. Basically conquest with a boring side mechanics on a map bad for conquest game mode. I liked the old version better. (I think I found in the Wiki the changelog ... and that huge changes got made 2016.)


I'd love to see something like ... keeping the 50 points per cap (on own node) but having the respawn time from like before. (+ Conquest mode disabled and kill points disabled and points only from orb.)

Mid node with a change maybe. Maybe points only given if the orb is delivered to close ("own") and mid node. No capping needed for own node. (Otherwise enemy team coud full zerg and uncap there.) Mid node with additional points for orb delivery - but only if you can cap it. (Either cap it and deliver or get orb to your own home if enemy is too strong and keeps mid capped all the time.)

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@"Luthan.5236" said:I remember that I liked the map a bit back then 2013. My 2nd favorite map after Temple I think. While Temple got a graet change (removing the 2 buffs that add more points on kills) Spirit Watch seems boring now to me.

Have only tried it a few times though. (There is no good way to queue for it regularly until you play lots of unranked and get lucky with people voting it.) I dislike that the orb spawns less often. I dislike that you can't use your profession skills. While this seems like they have done it with the intent to balance ... it makes the map feel "boring". And as long as it is in unranked only ... I don't see why it shouldn't be "fun" (even if it is unbalanced) instead.

The map itself is horrible for conquest. Vertical setup makes the ways to the other capture points pretty long. And yet conquest is the main thing giving points since the orb does not spawn that often. (Honestly having it spawn more often but with less points per delivered orb ... was a lot better. You could go for orbs constantly even though conquest was still in the map.)

Removing conquest completely would have been an interesting step. (Then making 1 extra queue like Stronghold and call it "capture the flag".)Not being able to use your profession skills (but orb skills instead) makes it also less fun. Yeah more balanced. But teams could coordinate and let the player with the "best" skills use the orb. I as rifle engineer liked back then 2013 when I played to use knockback shot (rifle 4) the last moment when people immobilized me. (Throwing my back to the cap point with the orb.)

It can also be strategically interesting to use knockbacks and stuff to attack the orb carrier (or his team mates defending him).

But if the orb is not that important because it spawns only every few minutes ... the map gets less interesting. Basically conquest with a boring side mechanics on a map bad for conquest game mode. I liked the old version better. (I think I found in the Wiki the changelog ... and that huge changes got made 2016.)


I'd love to see something like ... keeping the 50 points per cap (on own node) but having the respawn time from like before. (+ Conquest mode disabled and kill points disabled and points only from orb.)

Mid node with a change maybe. Maybe points only given if the orb is delivered to close ("own") and mid node. No capping needed for own node. (Otherwise enemy team coud full zerg and uncap there.) Mid node with additional points for orb delivery - but only if you can cap it. (Either cap it and deliver or get orb to your own home if enemy is too strong and keeps mid capped all the time.)

Are you by any chance a necro main?

Necroing a post from 2018 needs some serious dark power.

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@"DanAlcedo.3281" said:Necroing a post from 2018 needs some serious dark power.

That power is called "forum search". Restricted to PvP forums (without sub-forums) searching in the title listed posts with this one at the top. (Even though some from 2019 were listed below it.) I don't know how it ordered them. Maybe much later were even recent ones from 2020. Did not check that. I just used the one it listed first.

But there is no rule that threads "die". Always better to use an existing one instead of making a new one.

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:Spirit Watch revisions are something I'd really like us to get to. I'm hoping to try to fit it in early next year.

My thoughts on Spirit Watch:
  1. Too vertical. Classes with teleports have a severe advantage.
  2. Orb mechanic is extremely un-fun. Picking it up means you move 50% slower and can't use any of your normal skills for a long period of time. It's boring but necessary when playing this map. This map will never be a successful in ranked with the Orb in place.
  3. Points are too far apart. They are located on the outer edges of the map which means the majority of your time spent in the match is running along the outskirts. As such, the mid node isn't as important as there are other ways to access the side nodes. The mid node feels small and unimportant.

This is rangers best map...

lol why is this thread so old, wtf

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@NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:

@Liewec.2896 said:spiritwatch has one of the most game shifting side-gimmick of them all, it is CTF.

Slapping flag mechanic on top of Conquest is not called CTF, its abomination.That's really the issue with Spirit Watch. Pugs get stretch too thin wondering whether to go point or orb and capture point with the orb promotes snowballing once a team wins out. Easiest fix is just remove capture points and have fixed flag destinations and overriding skills like now.

But I'll just stop here since we've had this discussion monthly if not fortnightly.

Some strange logic right there if we take into account that the value Sword and Shield bring in Colliseum literally changes a game completely in favor of the team that has them.

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Been trying forever to get 25 wins in that map, but unfortunately it rarely appears in pick options, and if even it does - gets 2-3 at most votes. I spent yesterday half a day queuing unranked and out of about 20 matches saw it twice on list, just to never get picked.

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Many people I saw voiced their opinion about the map being bad due to the orb objective. Their reasoning is: "Well, people know when it comes up so they just camp those spots when the timer starts." Big spoiler: Skyhammer, Temple, Capricorn and even the Forest map have similar objectives that players throw just as much if not more attention to. Personally I find the map very interesting to play. It really is a shame that most people seem to hate it so much.

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@Mantulis.4153 said:Been trying forever to get 25 wins in that map, but unfortunately it rarely appears in pick options, and if even it does - gets 2-3 at most votes. I spent yesterday half a day queuing unranked and out of about 20 matches saw it twice on list, just to never get picked.

Thankfully I finally finished the achievements for this map last week and it only took me about a year XD

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