Mirage/mesmer is OP? - Page 4 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Mirage/mesmer is OP?

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  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @brappish.8715 said:

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
    Condi mirage is one of the top braindead skill less builds out there for the amount of damage they can produce so maybe thats the mirage you speak of thats OP

    I used it when learning mirage myself, then moved away from it into my own non meta DPS build as I enjoyed some of the mechanics (moved from Daredevil)

    I'm guessing you also don't play in a very high bracket of spvp also. Seeing as its brain-dead to you.

    Its no secret that competitive people tend to play what they find the easiest with most impact. Condi Mirage is super easy to play and has a great impact in terms of what its supposed to do. It over performs...which is also not a secret. On equal skill....a condi mirage will win a majority of their encounters (not all, but a majority)

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
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  • brappish.8715brappish.8715 Member ✭✭✭

    its easy to play at silver to gold. Its pretty much uselss after that unless the team comp is good. So my statement still stands.

    Overpowered.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2018

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
    Condi mirage is one of the top braindead skill less builds out there for the amount of damage they can produce.

    It isn't , thanks bye. (me too can produce good argumentation versus empty content (aka the I want to win versus everythings with little effort syndrome so I impose my top player feeling to everyone.).)

    Its no secret that competitive people tend to play what they find the easiest with most impact.

    it's right.

    Condi Mirage is super easy to play and has a great impact in terms of what its supposed to do. It over performs...which is also not a secret. On equal skill....a condi mirage will win a majority of their encounters (not all, but a majority)

    Yeah that's why every AT, mAT and leaderboard is full of mirage, it has soooo much impact ! (someone tells me in the headset that it's not the reality.)

  • Arlette.9684Arlette.9684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
    Condi mirage is one of the top braindead skill less builds out there for the amount of damage they can produce.

    It isn't , thanks bye. (me too can produce good argumentation versus empty content (aka the I want to win versus everythings with little effort syndrome so I impose my top player feeling to everyone.).)

    Its no secret that competitive people tend to play what they find the easiest with most impact.

    it's right.

    Condi Mirage is super easy to play and has a great impact in terms of what its supposed to do. It over performs...which is also not a secret. On equal skill....a condi mirage will win a majority of their encounters (not all, but a majority)

    Yeah that's why every AT, mAT and leaderboard is full of mirage, it has soooo much impact ! (someone tells me in the headset that it's not the reality.)

    Take note that these guys are EU and we play NA.

    Vae Victus!
    [Hcm] Promotraitor

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arlette.9684 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
    Condi mirage is one of the top braindead skill less builds out there for the amount of damage they can produce.

    It isn't , thanks bye. (me too can produce good argumentation versus empty content (aka the I want to win versus everythings with little effort syndrome so I impose my top player feeling to everyone.).)

    Its no secret that competitive people tend to play what they find the easiest with most impact.

    it's right.

    Condi Mirage is super easy to play and has a great impact in terms of what its supposed to do. It over performs...which is also not a secret. On equal skill....a condi mirage will win a majority of their encounters (not all, but a majority)

    Yeah that's why every AT, mAT and leaderboard is full of mirage, it has soooo much impact ! (someone tells me in the headset that it's not the reality.)

    Take note that these guys are EU and we play NA.

    That actually explains a lot with Viquing. Thanks.

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
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  • tinyreborn.1938tinyreborn.1938 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2018

    I have wierd feeling about NA and EU thing. We dont have invasion of mesmers . If you look at leaderboard its filled with various things. You wont find too much mesmers . Neither AT doesnt go with double mesmers .Sometimes team w/o mesmers win AT . Do we need separate balance for NA and EU? :trollface:

  • phokus.8934phokus.8934 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arlette.9684 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
    Condi mirage is one of the top braindead skill less builds out there for the amount of damage they can produce.

    It isn't , thanks bye. (me too can produce good argumentation versus empty content (aka the I want to win versus everythings with little effort syndrome so I impose my top player feeling to everyone.).)

    Its no secret that competitive people tend to play what they find the easiest with most impact.

    it's right.

    Condi Mirage is super easy to play and has a great impact in terms of what its supposed to do. It over performs...which is also not a secret. On equal skill....a condi mirage will win a majority of their encounters (not all, but a majority)

    Yeah that's why every AT, mAT and leaderboard is full of mirage, it has soooo much impact ! (someone tells me in the headset that it's not the reality.)

    Take note that these guys are EU and we play NA.

    NA leaderboard isn't filled with Mesmers either.

  • brappish.8715brappish.8715 Member ✭✭✭

    They're stealing our jobs!
    Yes Todd, Sandeep the neuroscientist is stealing your job truck driving.

    This equates to the same level of ridiculousness as the statement:

    "Mesmer is op"

    Overpowered.

  • Arlette.9684Arlette.9684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @phokus.8934 said:

    @Arlette.9684 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
    Condi mirage is one of the top braindead skill less builds out there for the amount of damage they can produce.

    It isn't , thanks bye. (me too can produce good argumentation versus empty content (aka the I want to win versus everythings with little effort syndrome so I impose my top player feeling to everyone.).)

    Its no secret that competitive people tend to play what they find the easiest with most impact.

    it's right.

    Condi Mirage is super easy to play and has a great impact in terms of what its supposed to do. It over performs...which is also not a secret. On equal skill....a condi mirage will win a majority of their encounters (not all, but a majority)

    Yeah that's why every AT, mAT and leaderboard is full of mirage, it has soooo much impact ! (someone tells me in the headset that it's not the reality.)

    Take note that these guys are EU and we play NA.

    NA leaderboard isn't filled with Mesmers either.

    I know, that's not what I was going for.

    Vae Victus!
    [Hcm] Promotraitor

  • MithranArkanere.8957MithranArkanere.8957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 18, 2018

    Mirage is utterly broken by design, and it will stay broken by design for as long as it can use skills while evading that were not designed to be used while evading.

    Mirage should only be able to use while evading the same skills core mesmer can use while evading, like shatters and teleport, its deception skills, and ambushes.

    Nothing else should be usable while evading, because that translates in way too much uptime of uninterruptible skill activations.

    That just has to stop.

  • jportell.2197jportell.2197 Member ✭✭✭

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:
    Mirage is utterly broken by design, and it will stay broken by design for as long as it can use skills while evading that were not designed to be used while evading.

    Mirage should only be able to use while evading the same skills core mesmer can use while evading, like shatters and teleport, its deception skills, and ambushes.

    Nothing else should be usable while evading, because that translates in way too much uptime of uninterruptible skill activations.

    That just has to stop.

    Then just delete the spec and start from the ground up. Seriously all these people whining about mirages when literally every class in the game gas built in skills to help deal with mirage be it resistance or insane condi clear.

  • @jportell.2197 said:

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:
    Mirage is utterly broken by design, and it will stay broken by design for as long as it can use skills while evading that were not designed to be used while evading.

    Mirage should only be able to use while evading the same skills core mesmer can use while evading, like shatters and teleport, its deception skills, and ambushes.

    Nothing else should be usable while evading, because that translates in way too much uptime of uninterruptible skill activations.

    That just has to stop.

    Then just delete the spec and start from the ground up. Seriously all these people whining about mirages when literally every class in the game gas built in skills to help deal with mirage be it resistance or insane condi clear.

    A landlord going "I am tired of the incessant whining of this one tenant, I'm going to burn the building!" when that tenant keeps going "We have to repair this pipe or the building will flood" is nothing but preposterous.
    What you do is fix that pipe. Then go back to listen to the tenants again. Being a landlord is a full time job that never ends. And the whining will never end either.

    The issue is pretty simple: Mirages are meant to use some skills while evading to make it harder to determine which one is the real mirage. But what was done to allow them to do so also allowed them to use too many skills while evading.

    No profession should be able to avoid being interrupted that much regardless of elite specialization.

    The solution is simple. It only needs to lose the ability to use while evading skills not meant to be used while evading.

    Just that. Ambushes, deceptions, and any of the many core skills that can already be used while evading would be completely unaffected.
    It'll be mostly skills like weapon phantasms with long activation times. To avoid getting those interrupted, mesmers have Distortion to become invulnerable, and quickness to activate them faster. That's the tool to use in that case.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 18, 2018

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:

    @jportell.2197 said:

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:
    Mirage is utterly broken by design, and it will stay broken by design for as long as it can use skills while evading that were not designed to be used while evading.

    Mirage should only be able to use while evading the same skills core mesmer can use while evading, like shatters and teleport, its deception skills, and ambushes.

    Nothing else should be usable while evading, because that translates in way too much uptime of uninterruptible skill activations.

    That just has to stop.

    Then just delete the spec and start from the ground up. Seriously all these people whining about mirages when literally every class in the game gas built in skills to help deal with mirage be it resistance or insane condi clear.

    A landlord going "I am tired of the incessant whining of this one tenant, I'm going to burn the building!" when that tenant keeps going "We have to repair this pipe or the building will flood" is nothing but preposterous.
    What you do is fix that pipe. Then go back to listen to the tenants again. Being a landlord is a full time job that never ends. And the whining will never end either.

    The issue is pretty simple: Mirages are meant to use some skills while evading to make it harder to determine which one is the real mirage. But what was done to allow them to do so also allowed them to use too many skills while evading.

    No profession should be able to avoid being interrupted that much regardless of elite specialization.

    The solution is simple. It only needs to lose the ability to use while evading skills not meant to be used while evading.

    Just that. Ambushes, deceptions, and any of the many core skills that can already be used while evading would be completely unaffected.
    It'll be mostly skills like weapon phantasms with long activation times. To avoid getting those interrupted, mesmers have Distortion to become invulnerable, and quickness to activate them faster. That's the tool to use in that case.

    It was always meant to use any skill it wants while evading. Your suggestion would make mirage completely unviable in PvE and PvP.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:

    @jportell.2197 said:

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:
    Mirage is utterly broken by design, and it will stay broken by design for as long as it can use skills while evading that were not designed to be used while evading.

    Mirage should only be able to use while evading the same skills core mesmer can use while evading, like shatters and teleport, its deception skills, and ambushes.

    Nothing else should be usable while evading, because that translates in way too much uptime of uninterruptible skill activations.

    That just has to stop.

    Then just delete the spec and start from the ground up. Seriously all these people whining about mirages when literally every class in the game gas built in skills to help deal with mirage be it resistance or insane condi clear.

    A landlord going "I am tired of the incessant whining of this one tenant, I'm going to burn the building!" when that tenant keeps going "We have to repair this pipe or the building will flood" is nothing but preposterous.
    What you do is fix that pipe. Then go back to listen to the tenants again. Being a landlord is a full time job that never ends. And the whining will never end either.

    The issue is pretty simple: Mirages are meant to use some skills while evading to make it harder to determine which one is the real mirage. But what was done to allow them to do so also allowed them to use too many skills while evading.

    No profession should be able to avoid being interrupted that much regardless of elite specialization.

    The solution is simple. It only needs to lose the ability to use while evading skills not meant to be used while evading.

    Just that. Ambushes, deceptions, and any of the many core skills that can already be used while evading would be completely unaffected.
    It'll be mostly skills like weapon phantasms with long activation times. To avoid getting those interrupted, mesmers have Distortion to become invulnerable, and quickness to activate them faster. That's the tool to use in that case.

    It was always meant to use any skill it wants while evading. Your suggestion would make mirage completely unviable in PvE and PvP.

    No, it would not. Imagine if warriors got 100% uptime for their stances. And someone came and said "That should not happen". Anyone saying that reducing the duration of warrior stances back to not having 100% uptime would make them completely unviable in PvE and PvP would be out of their mind.

    Core mesmer has survived for ages without that much uninterruptable uptime. They would not be losing anything that they should have.

  • That doesn't change the fact that no profession should have that much time of uniterruptiability.
    Nothing will ever change that.
    Dancing around the subject won't change that.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 19, 2018

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:
    That doesn't change the fact that no profession should have that much time of uniterruptiability.
    Nothing will ever change that.
    Dancing around the subject won't change that.

    I don't think you have actually played mirage then. Most ambush skills have a longer casting time than the mirage cloak so nearly if not all ambush skills are interruptable towards the end of their cast. Of course we're assuming you're a human that's playing with perhaps a 60-100 ping and average reaction speeds of 150-250ms meaning you generally activate an ambush 0.2s into the mirage cloak or even 0.3s in.

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:
    That doesn't change the fact that no profession should have that much time of uniterruptiability.
    Nothing will ever change that.
    Dancing around the subject won't change that.

    Its funny you mention "that much time of uninterruptability". If a mirage set themselves up with as much endurance regen/vigor and evades and went into a fight with it...you would be surprised how easy the fight would be. They would literally blow everything they can to achieve such. Its also not as much (time wise) "uninterruptability" as you think. No mirage would run max "uninterruptability" as its not a viable PvP or WvW build.

    As for your previous comment on some skills not meant to be used while evading...unless you are an ANet dev, you actually cannot truthfully claim that. Maybe they had plans at some point that a class like mirage would break that barrier.

    If you are going to continue to argue, please stop sounding like a broken record with the while "skills while evading" approach (esp where you started there, then evolved to "only some skills should be used while dodging". We're all up for constructive debates.

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
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  • @apharma.3741 said:

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:
    That doesn't change the fact that no profession should have that much time of uniterruptiability.
    Nothing will ever change that.
    Dancing around the subject won't change that.

    I don't think you have actually played mirage then. Most ambush skills have a longer casting time than the mirage cloak so nearly if not all ambush skills are interruptable towards the end of their cast. Of course we're assuming you're a human that's playing with perhaps a 60-100 ping and average reaction speeds of 150-250ms meaning you generally activate an ambush 0.2s into the mirage cloak or even 0.3s in.

    The end of the cast is not the problem, it's the start. Mirages can cover too many of their activation starts.

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:
    That doesn't change the fact that no profession should have that much time of uniterruptiability.
    Nothing will ever change that.
    Dancing around the subject won't change that.

    Its funny you mention "that much time of uninterruptability". If a mirage set themselves up with as much endurance regen/vigor and evades and went into a fight with it...you would be surprised how easy the fight would be. They would literally blow everything they can to achieve such. Its also not as much (time wise) "uninterruptability" as you think. No mirage would run max "uninterruptability" as its not a viable PvP or WvW build.

    As for your previous comment on some skills not meant to be used while evading...unless you are an ANet dev, you actually cannot truthfully claim that. Maybe they had plans at some point that a class like mirage would break that barrier.

    If you are going to continue to argue, please stop sounding like a broken record with the while "skills while evading" approach (esp where you started there, then evolved to "only some skills should be used while dodging". We're all up for constructive debates.

    There's no need to be an anet dev. Because it's in the design. A skill not meant to be used while evading will have an activation or channeling time, often an aftercast time too. Trying to evade while it's being activated or channeled will interrupt it. The 3 Daredevil dodge replacer traits will respect that, but Mirage's won't. That has to change to how it should have been from the start. Using a core weapon or utility skill with an activation time during a mirage evade should queue the skill to be activated when the dodge ends, not use it right away while evading. That's all.

    If I sound like a broken record is because there's nothing else to the issue. People either say there's no issue, or act as if they thought they have seen the issues, but those having issues against mirage show with what the explain that their activation while evading is the issue. It's not their access to conditions, it's not their weapon or utility skills, it's not their traits, it's not some combination with stats or upgrades.
    It's that they can cover too many of their activations to avoid getting them disabled with effects like stuns or blind way more often than anyone else.

    They can use too many skills while evading. Denying it more times or repeating it more times won't change how that is. But if people keep denying it, we'll just have to keep repeating it until people stop sweating bullets looking to the sides with shifty eyes trying to find some sort of excuse and scapegoat, and reality finally sinks in.

    There's nothing "OP" about mirage. Their evade just allows them to do something no one should be able to do. That has to be fixed. Once that's fixed, balance can resume as usual.

    Then we can focus on reworking stealth across the board. But first things first.

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:
    That doesn't change the fact that no profession should have that much time of uniterruptiability.
    Nothing will ever change that.
    Dancing around the subject won't change that.

    I don't think you have actually played mirage then. Most ambush skills have a longer casting time than the mirage cloak so nearly if not all ambush skills are interruptable towards the end of their cast. Of course we're assuming you're a human that's playing with perhaps a 60-100 ping and average reaction speeds of 150-250ms meaning you generally activate an ambush 0.2s into the mirage cloak or even 0.3s in.

    The end of the cast is not the problem, it's the start. Mirages can cover too many of their activation starts.

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:
    That doesn't change the fact that no profession should have that much time of uniterruptiability.
    Nothing will ever change that.
    Dancing around the subject won't change that.

    Its funny you mention "that much time of uninterruptability". If a mirage set themselves up with as much endurance regen/vigor and evades and went into a fight with it...you would be surprised how easy the fight would be. They would literally blow everything they can to achieve such. Its also not as much (time wise) "uninterruptability" as you think. No mirage would run max "uninterruptability" as its not a viable PvP or WvW build.

    As for your previous comment on some skills not meant to be used while evading...unless you are an ANet dev, you actually cannot truthfully claim that. Maybe they had plans at some point that a class like mirage would break that barrier.

    If you are going to continue to argue, please stop sounding like a broken record with the while "skills while evading" approach (esp where you started there, then evolved to "only some skills should be used while dodging". We're all up for constructive debates.

    There's no need to be an anet dev. Because it's in the design. A skill not meant to be used while evading will have an activation or channeling time, often an aftercast time too. Trying to evade while it's being activated or channeled will interrupt it. The 3 Daredevil dodge replacer traits will respect that, but Mirage's won't. That has to change to how it should have been from the start. Using a core weapon or utility skill with an activation time during a mirage evade should queue the skill to be activated when the dodge ends, not use it right away while evading. That's all.

    If I sound like a broken record is because there's nothing else to the issue. People either say there's no issue, or act as if they thought they have seen the issues, but those having issues against mirage show with what the explain that their activation while evading is the issue. It's not their access to conditions, it's not their weapon or utility skills, it's not their traits, it's not some combination with stats or upgrades.
    It's that they can cover too many of their activations to avoid getting them disabled with effects like stuns or blind way more often than anyone else.

    They can use too many skills while evading. Denying it more times or repeating it more times won't change how that is. But if people keep denying it, we'll just have to keep repeating it until people stop sweating bullets looking to the sides with shifty eyes trying to find some sort of excuse and scapegoat, and reality finally sinks in.

    There's nothing "OP" about mirage. Their evade just allows them to do something no one should be able to do. That has to be fixed. Once that's fixed, balance can resume as usual.

    Then we can focus on reworking stealth across the board. But first things first.

    Thats the thing, there isnt an issue. This is working as intended as well as part of the concept of a Mirage. It was created to be able to do this. You post in a Mesmer forum hoping that the majority would be on your side. This would actually be better in the WvW and/or PvP forums where you may get a bunch of people to agree with you. Its like going to Quebec (Canada) and saying Poutine sucks, or going to Boston and saying the red socks suck.

    Fact of the matter is that this is how the devs wanted Mirage to act. I personally think barrier is OP, however I understand the concept and accept it and moved on.

    Why haven't you?

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
    twitch.tv/TRMC
    Lover of Jumping puzzles, Squirrels, WvW, and Taimi
    Co-Leader of SOmething inAPpropriate {SOAP}

  • MithranArkanere.8957MithranArkanere.8957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 19, 2018

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:
    That doesn't change the fact that no profession should have that much time of uniterruptiability.
    Nothing will ever change that.
    Dancing around the subject won't change that.

    I don't think you have actually played mirage then. Most ambush skills have a longer casting time than the mirage cloak so nearly if not all ambush skills are interruptable towards the end of their cast. Of course we're assuming you're a human that's playing with perhaps a 60-100 ping and average reaction speeds of 150-250ms meaning you generally activate an ambush 0.2s into the mirage cloak or even 0.3s in.

    The end of the cast is not the problem, it's the start. Mirages can cover too many of their activation starts.

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:
    That doesn't change the fact that no profession should have that much time of uniterruptiability.
    Nothing will ever change that.
    Dancing around the subject won't change that.

    Its funny you mention "that much time of uninterruptability". If a mirage set themselves up with as much endurance regen/vigor and evades and went into a fight with it...you would be surprised how easy the fight would be. They would literally blow everything they can to achieve such. Its also not as much (time wise) "uninterruptability" as you think. No mirage would run max "uninterruptability" as its not a viable PvP or WvW build.

    As for your previous comment on some skills not meant to be used while evading...unless you are an ANet dev, you actually cannot truthfully claim that. Maybe they had plans at some point that a class like mirage would break that barrier.

    If you are going to continue to argue, please stop sounding like a broken record with the while "skills while evading" approach (esp where you started there, then evolved to "only some skills should be used while dodging". We're all up for constructive debates.

    There's no need to be an anet dev. Because it's in the design. A skill not meant to be used while evading will have an activation or channeling time, often an aftercast time too. Trying to evade while it's being activated or channeled will interrupt it. The 3 Daredevil dodge replacer traits will respect that, but Mirage's won't. That has to change to how it should have been from the start. Using a core weapon or utility skill with an activation time during a mirage evade should queue the skill to be activated when the dodge ends, not use it right away while evading. That's all.

    If I sound like a broken record is because there's nothing else to the issue. People either say there's no issue, or act as if they thought they have seen the issues, but those having issues against mirage show with what the explain that their activation while evading is the issue. It's not their access to conditions, it's not their weapon or utility skills, it's not their traits, it's not some combination with stats or upgrades.
    It's that they can cover too many of their activations to avoid getting them disabled with effects like stuns or blind way more often than anyone else.

    They can use too many skills while evading. Denying it more times or repeating it more times won't change how that is. But if people keep denying it, we'll just have to keep repeating it until people stop sweating bullets looking to the sides with shifty eyes trying to find some sort of excuse and scapegoat, and reality finally sinks in.

    There's nothing "OP" about mirage. Their evade just allows them to do something no one should be able to do. That has to be fixed. Once that's fixed, balance can resume as usual.

    Then we can focus on reworking stealth across the board. But first things first.

    Thats the thing, there isnt an issue. This is working as intended as well as part of the concept of a Mirage. It was created to be able to do this. You post in a Mesmer forum hoping that the majority would be on your side. This would actually be better in the WvW and/or PvP forums where you may get a bunch of people to agree with you. Its like going to Quebec (Canada) and saying Poutine sucks, or going to Boston and saying the red socks suck.

    Fact of the matter is that this is how the devs wanted Mirage to act. I personally think barrier is OP, however I understand the concept and accept it and moved on.

    Why haven't you?

    I haven't because I can't. I see what I see. I see that the sky looks blue. And I know why it looks blue. And if someone comes and tells me it's actually pink with green polka dots that will make me raise an eyebrown and wonder why they think that way, not make me change my mind.

    For example, you yourself admit that you think barrier is OP. But it isn't. Barrier itself isn't a problem. Any problems involving barrier always happen because of how it's used it isn't being fully used the way it should.
    It's actually a mechanic I had suggested for ages and that GW2 direly needed since forever, but it's still incomplete. It's missing variables it should have. All barriers have a fixed 5s duration, and a fixed 50% max HP cap. Those values should be able to vary between skills. Some should not be able to give more than 10% max hp , some should be able to give longer barriers or even permanent ones that stay until depleted (obviosuly a barrier that would last indefinitely would have a very small cap).
    Look at scourges. they can spam barrier way too much, while keeping too much of their other powers, their full power needs to be partially moved to traits, and split between their 3 Grandmaster traits, so a scourge that focuses on Barrier can't also fully focus on conversion spam or condition spam. This applies to all professions. Nobody should be able too many things too well at the same time.
    And other professions haven't received as much of it as they should. Barrier has been added too sparingly. Barrier should not just be an addition. It should have been replacing some heals, turning a permanent heal into a partial temporary barrier. And it should have been available more often as a cover to pre-emtively 'heal' before receiving a burst of damage.
    The addition of barrier to Scrapper was a ray of hope, though. It has been done mostly right. I would add some barrier to Med Kit blaster when traited with Health Insurance while using it on allies that are at full health, tho.
    And let's not forget the game has been getting too spikey and bursty lately. Replacing heals with barrier is something that needs to happen along an overall reduction of fast damage bursts. Rather than having people quickly and easily recovering to full heal with healing effects, resetting fights too often, part of that would change to barriers that go away, bringing back much needed attrition combat and tiring the enemy.
    But OP? Nope. Not at all. Removing barrier would be as much of a mistake as removing stealth, evades or downed states just because some people do not understand them.
    They just need to be used right.

    And that's my point. Not seeing an issue doesn't make it disappear. Seeing something as wrong won't make it right. You have to look at the big picture. See recordings of gameplay by all sorts of people, not just 'high tier' people. Listen to feedback from many people, and try the things yourself. Not just the profession, but all other professions in all sorts of specs.

    Once you have enough information, it just comes to you right away. In both large and small scale fights involving mesmers, unless there's a heavy spam of unblockable wards like Static Field, mesmers can dish out way more of their skills wihout being disrupted by anything, from well timed interrupt attempts to stray spammed skills. And they may not notice it in the heat of battle, but it's happening.

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:
    That doesn't change the fact that no profession should have that much time of uniterruptiability.
    Nothing will ever change that.
    Dancing around the subject won't change that.

    I don't think you have actually played mirage then. Most ambush skills have a longer casting time than the mirage cloak so nearly if not all ambush skills are interruptable towards the end of their cast. Of course we're assuming you're a human that's playing with perhaps a 60-100 ping and average reaction speeds of 150-250ms meaning you generally activate an ambush 0.2s into the mirage cloak or even 0.3s in.

    The end of the cast is not the problem, it's the start. Mirages can cover too many of their activation starts.

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:
    That doesn't change the fact that no profession should have that much time of uniterruptiability.
    Nothing will ever change that.
    Dancing around the subject won't change that.

    Its funny you mention "that much time of uninterruptability". If a mirage set themselves up with as much endurance regen/vigor and evades and went into a fight with it...you would be surprised how easy the fight would be. They would literally blow everything they can to achieve such. Its also not as much (time wise) "uninterruptability" as you think. No mirage would run max "uninterruptability" as its not a viable PvP or WvW build.

    As for your previous comment on some skills not meant to be used while evading...unless you are an ANet dev, you actually cannot truthfully claim that. Maybe they had plans at some point that a class like mirage would break that barrier.

    If you are going to continue to argue, please stop sounding like a broken record with the while "skills while evading" approach (esp where you started there, then evolved to "only some skills should be used while dodging". We're all up for constructive debates.

    There's no need to be an anet dev. Because it's in the design. A skill not meant to be used while evading will have an activation or channeling time, often an aftercast time too. Trying to evade while it's being activated or channeled will interrupt it. The 3 Daredevil dodge replacer traits will respect that, but Mirage's won't. That has to change to how it should have been from the start. Using a core weapon or utility skill with an activation time during a mirage evade should queue the skill to be activated when the dodge ends, not use it right away while evading. That's all.

    If I sound like a broken record is because there's nothing else to the issue. People either say there's no issue, or act as if they thought they have seen the issues, but those having issues against mirage show with what the explain that their activation while evading is the issue. It's not their access to conditions, it's not their weapon or utility skills, it's not their traits, it's not some combination with stats or upgrades.
    It's that they can cover too many of their activations to avoid getting them disabled with effects like stuns or blind way more often than anyone else.

    They can use too many skills while evading. Denying it more times or repeating it more times won't change how that is. But if people keep denying it, we'll just have to keep repeating it until people stop sweating bullets looking to the sides with shifty eyes trying to find some sort of excuse and scapegoat, and reality finally sinks in.

    There's nothing "OP" about mirage. Their evade just allows them to do something no one should be able to do. That has to be fixed. Once that's fixed, balance can resume as usual.

    Then we can focus on reworking stealth across the board. But first things first.

    Thats the thing, there isnt an issue. This is working as intended as well as part of the concept of a Mirage. It was created to be able to do this. You post in a Mesmer forum hoping that the majority would be on your side. This would actually be better in the WvW and/or PvP forums where you may get a bunch of people to agree with you. Its like going to Quebec (Canada) and saying Poutine sucks, or going to Boston and saying the red socks suck.

    Fact of the matter is that this is how the devs wanted Mirage to act. I personally think barrier is OP, however I understand the concept and accept it and moved on.

    Why haven't you?

    I haven't because I can't. I see what I see. I see that the sky looks blue. And I know why it looks blue. And if someone comes and tells me it's actually pink with green polka dots that will make me raise an eyebrown and wonder why they think that way, not make me change my mind.

    For example, you yourself admit that you think barrier is OP. But it isn't. Barrier itself isn't a problem. Any problems involving barrier always happen because of how it's used it isn't being fully used the way it should.
    It's actually a mechanic I had suggested for ages and that GW2 direly needed since forever, but it's still incomplete. It's missing variables it should have. All barriers have a fixed 5s duration, and a fixed 50% max HP cap. Those values should be able to vary between skills. Some should not be able to give more than 10% max hp , some should be able to give longer barriers or even permanent ones that stay until depleted (obviosuly a barrier that would last indefinitely would have a very small cap).
    Look at scourges. they can spam barrier way too much, while keeping too much of their other powers, their full power needs to be partially moved to traits, and split between their 3 Grandmaster traits, so a scourge that focuses on Barrier can't also fully focus on conversion spam or condition spam. This applies to all professions. Nobody should be able too many things too well at the same time.
    And other professions haven't received as much of it as they should. Barrier has been added too sparingly. Barrier should not just be an addition. It should have been replacing some heals, turning a permanent heal into a partial temporary barrier. And it should have been available more often as a cover to pre-emtively 'heal' before receiving a burst of damage.
    The addition of barrier to Scrapper was a ray of hope, though. It has been done mostly right. I would add some barrier to Med Kit blaster when traited with Health Insurance while using it on allies that are at full health, tho.
    And let's not forget the game has been getting too spikey and bursty lately. Replacing heals with barrier is something that needs to happen along an overall reduction of fast damage bursts. Rather than having people quickly and easily recovering to full heal with healing effects, resetting fights too often, part of that would change to barriers that go away, bringing back much needed attrition combat and tiring the enemy.
    But OP? Nope. Not at all. Removing barrier would be as much of a mistake as removing stealth, evades or downed states just because some people do not understand them.
    They just need to be used right.

    And that's my point. Not seeing an issue doesn't make it disappear. Seeing something as wrong won't make it right. You have to look at the big picture. See recordings of gameplay by all sorts of people, not just 'high tier' people. Listen to feedback from many people, and try the things yourself. Not just the profession, but all other professions in all sorts of specs.

    Once you have enough information, it just comes to you right away. In both large and small scale fights involving mesmers, unless there's a heavy spam of unblockable wards like Static Field, mesmers can dish out way more of their skills wihout being disrupted by anything, from well timed interrupt attempts to stray spammed skills. And they may not notice it in the heat of battle, but it's happening.

    Not seeing an issue could also mean there really isn't one in reality. Could mean the concept is lost on some (and they are genuinely looking for reasoning to understand) or could mean some people are just salty and/or looking for a reason to complain for other personal reasons. Who knows.

    What I do know however is this causing an impasse, leading to the point of agreeing to disagree in this case as its clear our minds will not be swayed.

    I say good luck good sir and/or maam.

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
    twitch.tv/TRMC
    Lover of Jumping puzzles, Squirrels, WvW, and Taimi
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  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:
    That doesn't change the fact that no profession should have that much time of uniterruptiability.
    Nothing will ever change that.
    Dancing around the subject won't change that.

    I don't think you have actually played mirage then. Most ambush skills have a longer casting time than the mirage cloak so nearly if not all ambush skills are interruptable towards the end of their cast. Of course we're assuming you're a human that's playing with perhaps a 60-100 ping and average reaction speeds of 150-250ms meaning you generally activate an ambush 0.2s into the mirage cloak or even 0.3s in.

    The end of the cast is not the problem, it's the start. Mirages can cover too many of their activation starts.

    Start, end it doesn't matter, you interrupt a skill and it doesn't happen. Remember you're complaint is "That doesn't change the fact that no profession should have that much time of uniterruptiability. " and ambush skills you can interrupt the end. Likewise there's a lot of utilities that have 1s or more cast (excluding instants because uninterruptable) and there's a lot of skills that are 1/2s-3/4s cast times.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 19, 2018

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:

    No profession should be able to avoid being interrupted that much regardless of elite specialization.

    Paradoxaly, mesmer, not having stability access and with cast time on skills higher than the meta average (no perma quickness for example.), are one of the easiest interruptable class currently. (and interruptable != lockdown.)

    @mortrialus.3062 " said:
    Core mesmer hasn't been anywhere near close to meta since Heart of Thorns. It's a dead spec competitively and was barely a thing in PvE during Heart of Thorns. Like 26k dps barely hanging on to the meta of that era.

    Actually coremes is not that bad in PvP.
    It have the same evade uptime than mirage and don't have to choose between evade for ambush or evade to temporise. So if we leave apart jaunt and sword mobility, core mes isn't that bad.

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said :
    That doesn't change the fact that no profession should have that much time of uniterruptiability.

    Again in PvP mirage is under the average uniterruptiability general meta uptime when you compare to other stab/blocks (who permit them to do actions with no risks of being CCed.).
    Just think about it, has lockdown builds ever be viable ? (the answer is no and it's not because mirage were on the meta.)

    It's not I'm not about arguing but when the main argument isn't true it's hard to be constructive.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 19, 2018

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:

    No profession should be able to avoid being interrupted that much regardless of elite specialization.

    Paradoxaly, mesmer, not having stability access and with cast time on skills higher than the meta average (no perma quickness for example.), are one of the easiest interruptable class currently. (and interruptable != lockdown.)

    @mortrialus.3062 " said:
    Core mesmer hasn't been anywhere near close to meta since Heart of Thorns. It's a dead spec competitively and was barely a thing in PvE during Heart of Thorns. Like 26k dps barely hanging on to the meta of that era.

    Actually coremes is not that bad in PvP.
    It have the same evade uptime than mirage and don't have to choose between evade for ambush or evade to temporise. So if we leave apart jaunt and sword mobility, core mes isn't that bad.

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said :
    That doesn't change the fact that no profession should have that much time of uniterruptiability.

    Again in PvP mirage is under the average uniterruptiability general meta uptime when you compare to other stab/blocks (who permit them to do actions with no risks of being CCed.).
    Just think about it, has lockdown builds ever be viable ? (the answer is no and it's not because mirage were on the meta.)

    It's not I'm not about arguing but when the main argument isn't true it's hard to be constructive.

    Since Path of Fire I have seen exactly one core mesmer in a game in probably 1,000+ ranked games. I'm pretty much always in plat 1,2 and 3. I have seen mountains more of every other core spec in the game.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Core mesmer is garbage . Tried power core mesmer a bit in rankeds and it was kitten terrible. Moderate burst (2 mantra blink ... just for that and holo get only 50% hp burst and nowhere near this OMG mlg oneshots), low survivability , low mobility. In fact Jaunt is enabler for mirage to be able to burst 'without' animations and no tells. Without jaunt mirage would be really weak and forced to play with sword regardless of build to have some gap closer ,at least on sword .
    Only 'ok' core spec was hybrid scepter cuz scepter right now is really OP . images does tons of damage ,low cd block with really long 5 torment with 2 clones and decent damage .If core mesmer would have jaunt ,then I would say CORE MESMER iS NOT BAD xD

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If mirage wouldn't be able to cast while evading than mirage cloak would be nothing but a worse dodge. Or are you purposing mirage cloak to be deleted and in that case what mechanic would you give mirage?

    The degenerate

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2018

    @tinyreborn.1938 said:
    cuz scepter right now is really OP .

    "cuz scepter is on pair with other class scepter".
    And it does normal damage when you compare to other class cd/cast skills. :)

    Core mesmer is garbage

    It isn't.
    In direct damage, you basically trade jaunt mobility to mass invi (=> which have nice teamplay situations uses, particulary to help a focused mate.). You lose some damage too ofc.
    In condi you say it, it's strong 1v1/holder.
    For me if mirage didn't exists actually I should probably be on condicoremes.

  • tinyreborn.1938tinyreborn.1938 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 22, 2018

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @tinyreborn.1938 said:
    cuz scepter right now is really OP .

    "cuz scepter is on pair with other class scepter".
    And it does normal damage when you compare to other class cd/cast skills. :)

    Core mesmer is garbage

    It isn't.
    In direct damage, you basically trade jaunt mobility to mass invi (=> which have nice teamplay situations uses, particulary to help a focused mate.). You lose some damage too ofc.
    In condi you say it, it's strong 1v1/holder.
    For me if mirage didn't exists actually I should probably be on condicoremes.

    Just on hybrid images does like 7k damage + confusions xd . Probably you are right. Rush/gs3 on war gs can do like 8-10k ,etc
    Yet ,core condi mes condi output is relatively low compared to mirage , mirage ambushes with axe/staff are great and outside of that not much condi pressure . Current cleanses and such classes as holo/core guard/ s/d core thief and DE/soulbeast/warrior (who wouldnt?) should erase it with ease (on same level ofc)
    You underestimate jaunt too much .Any core elite of mesmer is just bad TW/Moa 180s cd for...really meh effect... They didnt even reduce cd for moa when nerfed it 40% duration. Mass invis casting too long and 90s cd is kinda high for that skill .

  • Ofc it's broken. lol. You're not going to get any sympathy in this section of the forums though. Just enjoy the carebear posts.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭

    @tinyreborn.1938 said:
    You underestimate jaunt too much .Any core elite of mesmer is just bad TW/Moa 180s cd for...really meh effect... They didnt even reduce cd for moa when nerfed it 40% duration. Mass invis casting too long and 90s cd is kinda high for that skill .

    We can't have core ulti good as long as chrono F5 work on it because it will be op. Cf : https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/57925/fix-blocking-design .

    @godofcows.2451 said:
    Ofc it's broken. lol. You're not going to get any sympathy in this section of the forums though. Just enjoy the carebear posts.

    Ofc it's not broken. lol. Thanks for the empty content post who permit a no reflexion response, it's relaxating.
    Hint : mesmer forum section is the most masochistic group comparing to other sections when talking about their class.

  • @viquing.8254 said:

    @tinyreborn.1938 said:
    You underestimate jaunt too much .Any core elite of mesmer is just bad TW/Moa 180s cd for...really meh effect... They didnt even reduce cd for moa when nerfed it 40% duration. Mass invis casting too long and 90s cd is kinda high for that skill .

    We can't have core ulti good as long as chrono F5 work on it because it will be op. Cf : https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/57925/fix-blocking-design .

    @godofcows.2451 said:
    Ofc it's broken. lol. You're not going to get any sympathy in this section of the forums though. Just enjoy the carebear posts.

    Ofc it's not broken. lol. Thanks for the empty content post who permit a no reflexion response, it's relaxating.
    Hint : mesmer forum section is the most masochistic group comparing to other sections when talking about their class.

    Do u remember what scourge got ?Curses traitline shroud 2 skill conver only 1 boon into condition if scourge equipped. Increase moa cd to ~150 if chrono equipped and core/mirage 120s. Time warp is dead now even in PVE ... Would be good to see completely dead elite skills to be reworked into new (for all classes)

  • brappish.8715brappish.8715 Member ✭✭✭

    Is anyone here gold 3 --plat 2? or is this just a bunch of silver ranked people complaining about mes

    Overpowered.

  • buff chrono

    Nerf is over the hill !

  • Nerf everything mesmer. Mirage, Chrono AND mesmer.

    The uptime defenses are broken. Anyone stating anything different will need to come with some evidence supporting there claims.

    The magical 7 defensives basically make you immune to every sort of attack imaginable 20+ sec of not being able to take damage? and you mesmers still think its fine? lolol.

    Added to that the difference between a mirage and a core mesmer is pure powercreep. No other elite spec has this much powercreep built into it, ofcourse you arent going to see any core mesmers when the elite spec is so much more overpowered! That doesnt mean the core spec is bad whatsoever.

    I also see somuch hypocrisy in the mesmer forums. On one hand theyr like 'but this class can do this X and Y' and then you bring up what other classes cant do and there supreme cooldowns 'But we are talking about mesmer'

    Theyr asking for buffs to stuff that is normalised, and any nerfs are automatically deemed a l2p issue.
    Then some random mesmer starts QQing about how theyve been 'nerfed' somuch already. Like really? You really think just because your class has been shaved ever so marginally your not supposed to get hit with a balance hammer when your spec is STILL overperforming. (talking about how to presserve something broken)

    Other classes and specs have been completely GUTTED when they overperformed.

    Mesmer has seen none of these gutting stuff. Just small increments on nerfs wich ultimately do nothing, the biggest nerf was to portal and that was a cherry on the cake an extra utility mesmers could bring to auto recap any point with a team!

    They can 1 shot during dodges... They are easy to use. And they have perma uptime defenses. How can you not see this class is broken?

    Oh the glorious days when warriors 6 sec invurn was deemed broken. But ofc mesmer should never be hit ever with the 'powercreep of PoF' and keep there insane 20+ sec uptime godmode whilst being able to one shot.

    Basically all i see new mesmers do is spam clones. once theyr targetted spam invurn, dodge to condi spam one shot, and blink into stealth. This is the EASIEST class mechanic they have ever introduced for something that has a 20+ sec uptime.

    And mesmers are still saying there class isnt broken? lol.

    You can dodge the burst easily, you can spot the reall mesmer easily. But with that uptime defense you will NEVER be able to punch through before going 100-0.

  • Ramanthes.5916Ramanthes.5916 Member
    edited January 12, 2019

    @ErazorZ.5209 said:
    Nerf everything mesmer. Mirage, Chrono AND mesmer.

    Sure thing, buddy. As long as in the same patch thief gets erased from the game (have thief players receive a message "So-and-so was hanged for being a thieving kitten, here's some of his stuff").

    If you get to make your irrational demands about a proff that is trashing you, I get to make mine against the one that trashes mesmer.

  • @ErazorZ.5209 said:
    Nerf everything mesmer. Mirage, Chrono AND mesmer.

    The uptime defenses are broken. Anyone stating anything different will need to come with some evidence supporting there claims.

    The magical 7 defensives basically make you immune to every sort of attack imaginable 20+ sec of not being able to take damage? and you mesmers still think its fine? lolol.

    Care to explain your numbers? Specifically what single build has all this and, assuming you aren't claiming infinite invulnerability, what period of time/how often "20+ seconds of not being able to take damage" happens? By all means, let's get to the bottom of this.

    I also see somuch hypocrisy in the mesmer forums. On one hand theyr like 'but this class can do this X and Y' and then you bring up what other classes cant do and there supreme cooldowns 'But we are talking about mesmer'

    Theyr asking for buffs to stuff that is normalised, and any nerfs are automatically deemed a l2p issue.
    Then some random mesmer starts QQing about how theyve been 'nerfed' somuch already. Like really? You really think just because your class has been shaved ever so marginally your not supposed to get hit with a balance hammer when your spec is STILL overperforming. (talking about how to presserve something broken)

    Actually, looking through the many--and there are many--"mesmer complaint threads" across the forums, the regular mesmer mains seem quite reasonable. Consistently calling for changes to specific things they freely admit are too much. They do also set the facts straight and seek clarification, like when someone claims mesmers coast along on 20+ seconds of damage immunity.

    They can 1 shot during dodges... They are easy to use. And they have perma uptime defenses. How can you not see this class is broken?

    Please elaborate on the specific skill/utility combos involved here. Being able to 1-shot during a dodge seems godlike indeed. As do "perma uptime defenses."

    Oh the glorious days when warriors 6 sec invurn was deemed broken. But ofc mesmer should never be hit ever with the 'powercreep of PoF' and keep there insane 20+ sec uptime godmode whilst being able to one shot.

    Again, please elaborate on this.

    Basically all i see new mesmers do is spam clones. once theyr targetted spam invurn, dodge to condi spam one shot, and blink into stealth. This is the EASIEST class mechanic they have ever introduced for something that has a 20+ sec uptime.

    So easy that all leaderboards are utterly dominated by mesmer specs?

    On a side note, why do you hate mesmers so much? It's as if you were traumatized by one as a young child. :/

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:

    @jportell.2197 said:

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:
    Mirage is utterly broken by design, and it will stay broken by design for as long as it can use skills while evading that were not designed to be used while evading.

    Mirage should only be able to use while evading the same skills core mesmer can use while evading, like shatters and teleport, its deception skills, and ambushes.

    Nothing else should be usable while evading, because that translates in way too much uptime of uninterruptible skill activations.

    That just has to stop.

    Then just delete the spec and start from the ground up. Seriously all these people whining about mirages when literally every class in the game gas built in skills to help deal with mirage be it resistance or insane condi clear.

    A landlord going "I am tired of the incessant whining of this one tenant, I'm going to burn the building!" when that tenant keeps going "We have to repair this pipe or the building will flood" is nothing but preposterous.
    What you do is fix that pipe. Then go back to listen to the tenants again. Being a landlord is a full time job that never ends. And the whining will never end either.

    The issue is pretty simple: Mirages are meant to use some skills while evading to make it harder to determine which one is the real mirage. But what was done to allow them to do so also allowed them to use too many skills while evading.

    No profession should be able to avoid being interrupted that much regardless of elite specialization.

    The solution is simple. It only needs to lose the ability to use while evading skills not meant to be used while evading.

    Just that. Ambushes, deceptions, and any of the many core skills that can already be used while evading would be completely unaffected.
    It'll be mostly skills like weapon phantasms with long activation times. To avoid getting those interrupted, mesmers have Distortion to become invulnerable, and quickness to activate them faster. That's the tool to use in that case.

    It was always meant to use any skill it wants while evading. Your suggestion would make mirage completely unviable in PvE and PvP.

    No, it would not. Imagine if warriors got 100% uptime for their stances. And someone came and said "That should not happen". Anyone saying that reducing the duration of warrior stances back to not having 100% uptime would make them completely unviable in PvE and PvP would be out of their mind.

    Core mesmer has survived for ages without that much uninterruptable uptime. They would not be losing anything that they should have.

    Mirage cloak is not comparable to permanent damage reversal with Defensive Stance that perhaps the most hyperbolic statement about balance I have ever heard.

    Core mesmer hasn't been anywhere near close to meta since Heart of Thorns. It's a dead spec competitively and was barely a thing in PvE during Heart of Thorns. Like 26k dps barely hanging on to the meta of that era.

    Of course it hasn't been meta since HoT, and even then it was a bit questionable when compared against Chrono. Why? AoE "power creep" or just "AoE creep". What has the meta for Conquest consisted of over the years? And I mean really look back in time. What was strong?

    Core GW2: Hambow, Bunker Guards, Terrormancer, condi kit Engi (yeah it was a thing), S/D ele, Trap Ranger
    HoT: Berserker, DH and Bunker Guards, Celestial Avatar Druid, Chronophantasma Shatter Chrono, Support Tempest (typically that Auramancer build), Power or Celestial Scrapper
    PoF: Spellbreaker, Firebrand, Scourge, Mirage, Holosmith

    Notice the trend? The meta builds tended to have AoE something associated with it and it wasn't so bad early on, but as time has gone on more and more of it has been added with the Elite Specializations and yet Conquest, as a game mode, has remained entirely unchanged.

    Thats why you don't see Core Mesmer anywhere near the meta because it has less AoE pressure than Mirage or even Chrono. Thats why Core Warrior is only really a mildly competent duelist in sPvP, thats why Core Necro is irrelevant because of much less AoE pressure, thats why Core Ele is nowhere to be seen, and so on.

    Core Guard remains relevant really only because of the sustain and its burst is AoE (Shield of Wrath > Mighty Blow/Glacial Blow > Judge's Intervention > optional Smite Condition).

    Mirage is an issue, certainly, and there have been suggestions made that would bring it more in line without making it completely irrelevant (imo ICD on Infinite Horizons and Mirage Cloak can't be used while CC'd), but ultimately sPvP balance is always going to be a nightmare because Conquest is just old and has not been updated to keep in line with all of the AoE that is getting vomited out during gameplay. Look at what happened with Spellbreaker when Full Counter's damage got dropped off a cliff. Fell way behind in terms of point pressure, they have since opted to use more direct damage and just use Full Counter as a defensive tool to proc Magebane Tether and its become more of a duelist and +1 option.

  • Not as "OP" as soulbeast in duel, but definitly easier to learn and master due to a large pack of utilities/sustain. The clone spam is the stupidest thing Anet could do to mesmer to improve it.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Let's all appreciate for a moment the player that's asking for core mesmer nerfs. One of the weakest core professions.
    As for the 20sec invulnerability he saw either the thread in which a dude calls blind invuln or the other one with a video in which a dude spams distortion with the chaos trait and picks mirrors (and still fails to get 20sec invulnerability against a kitten npc).

    The degenerate

  • Apolo.5942Apolo.5942 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2019

    Mesmer has been voted the most op class for the last 2 pvp seasons.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/63182/most-op-class-dec-14-2018/p1

    Conditions need to be normalized:
    1- SINGLE PLAYER conditions stack on DURATION.
    2- MULTIPLE PLAYERS conditions stack on INTENSITY.
    3- REBALANCE condition duration, damage and application.

  • ErazorZ.5209ErazorZ.5209 Member ✭✭
    edited January 16, 2019

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @ErazorZ.5209 said:
    Nerf everything mesmer. Mirage, Chrono AND mesmer.

    The uptime defenses are broken. Anyone stating anything different will need to come with some evidence supporting there claims.

    The magical 7 defensives basically make you immune to every sort of attack imaginable 20+ sec of not being able to take damage? and you mesmers still think its fine? lolol.

    Care to explain your numbers? Specifically what single build has all this and, assuming you aren't claiming infinite invulnerability, what period of time/how often "20+ seconds of not being able to take damage" happens? By all means, let's get to the bottom of this.

    I also see somuch hypocrisy in the mesmer forums. On one hand theyr like 'but this class can do this X and Y' and then you bring up what other classes cant do and there supreme cooldowns 'But we are talking about mesmer'

    Theyr asking for buffs to stuff that is normalised, and any nerfs are automatically deemed a l2p issue.
    Then some random mesmer starts QQing about how theyve been 'nerfed' somuch already. Like really? You really think just because your class has been shaved ever so marginally your not supposed to get hit with a balance hammer when your spec is STILL overperforming. (talking about how to presserve something broken)

    Actually, looking through the many--and there are many--"mesmer complaint threads" across the forums, the regular mesmer mains seem quite reasonable. Consistently calling for changes to specific things they freely admit are too much. They do also set the facts straight and seek clarification, like when someone claims mesmers coast along on 20+ seconds of damage immunity.

    They can 1 shot during dodges... They are easy to use. And they have perma uptime defenses. How can you not see this class is broken?

    Please elaborate on the specific skill/utility combos involved here. Being able to 1-shot during a dodge seems godlike indeed. As do "perma uptime defenses."

    Oh the glorious days when warriors 6 sec invurn was deemed broken. But ofc mesmer should never be hit ever with the 'powercreep of PoF' and keep there insane 20+ sec uptime godmode whilst being able to one shot.

    Again, please elaborate on this.

    Basically all i see new mesmers do is spam clones. once theyr targetted spam invurn, dodge to condi spam one shot, and blink into stealth. This is the EASIEST class mechanic they have ever introduced for something that has a 20+ sec uptime.

    So easy that all leaderboards are utterly dominated by mesmer specs?

    On a side note, why do you hate mesmers so much? It's as if you were traumatized by one as a young child. :/

    I think all mesmers should be aware of the magical 7 skills.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Prestige (3 sec uptime) (30 sec cd)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blink(30 sec cd)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phase_Retreat(8sec cd traited)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blurred_Frenzy(1 sec uptime) (10 sec cd)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Distortion(1 sec uptime) (50 sec cd) (Distortion + mirage mirror traited +1 uptime) (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reformed_Mirage_Mirror)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mass_Invisibility(5 sec uptimes) (90sec cd)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Decoy(3 sec uptime) (40 sec cd)

    Lets focus on uptimes first. 14seconds of being unable to get hit due to uptime of stealth + invurn + evade
    Blurred frenzy is off cd after you open with it so add 1 sec to that, phase retreat is off cd aswell.

    15 sec of being unable to be hit. +2(+1 from low phase retreat cooldown) teleports.
    Phase retreat adds ATLEAST 2 seconds of not being able to be hit, every time you use it, due to leap + detarget.
    phase retreat x2 = 4 seconds.

    15+4= 19.
    blink = 2 seconds ATLEAST aswell
    19+2 = 21.

    If mirage mirror is procced multiple times add 1 sec every proc.
    add multiple access to dazes (1 sec each)

    21+++ sec. of defensive uptimes.

  • EpicTurtle.8571EpicTurtle.8571 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ErazorZ.5209 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @ErazorZ.5209 said:
    Nerf everything mesmer. Mirage, Chrono AND mesmer.

    The uptime defenses are broken. Anyone stating anything different will need to come with some evidence supporting there claims.

    The magical 7 defensives basically make you immune to every sort of attack imaginable 20+ sec of not being able to take damage? and you mesmers still think its fine? lolol.

    Care to explain your numbers? Specifically what single build has all this and, assuming you aren't claiming infinite invulnerability, what period of time/how often "20+ seconds of not being able to take damage" happens? By all means, let's get to the bottom of this.

    I also see somuch hypocrisy in the mesmer forums. On one hand theyr like 'but this class can do this X and Y' and then you bring up what other classes cant do and there supreme cooldowns 'But we are talking about mesmer'

    Theyr asking for buffs to stuff that is normalised, and any nerfs are automatically deemed a l2p issue.
    Then some random mesmer starts QQing about how theyve been 'nerfed' somuch already. Like really? You really think just because your class has been shaved ever so marginally your not supposed to get hit with a balance hammer when your spec is STILL overperforming. (talking about how to presserve something broken)

    Actually, looking through the many--and there are many--"mesmer complaint threads" across the forums, the regular mesmer mains seem quite reasonable. Consistently calling for changes to specific things they freely admit are too much. They do also set the facts straight and seek clarification, like when someone claims mesmers coast along on 20+ seconds of damage immunity.

    They can 1 shot during dodges... They are easy to use. And they have perma uptime defenses. How can you not see this class is broken?

    Please elaborate on the specific skill/utility combos involved here. Being able to 1-shot during a dodge seems godlike indeed. As do "perma uptime defenses."

    Oh the glorious days when warriors 6 sec invurn was deemed broken. But ofc mesmer should never be hit ever with the 'powercreep of PoF' and keep there insane 20+ sec uptime godmode whilst being able to one shot.

    Again, please elaborate on this.

    Basically all i see new mesmers do is spam clones. once theyr targetted spam invurn, dodge to condi spam one shot, and blink into stealth. This is the EASIEST class mechanic they have ever introduced for something that has a 20+ sec uptime.

    So easy that all leaderboards are utterly dominated by mesmer specs?

    On a side note, why do you hate mesmers so much? It's as if you were traumatized by one as a young child. :/

    I think all mesmers should be aware of the magical 7 skills.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Prestige (3 sec uptime) (30 sec cd)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blink(30 sec cd)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phase_Retreat(8sec cd traited)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blurred_Frenzy(1 sec uptime) (10 sec cd)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Distortion(1 sec uptime) (50 sec cd) (Distortion + mirage mirror traited +1 uptime) (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reformed_Mirage_Mirror)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mass_Invisibility(5 sec uptimes) (90sec cd)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Decoy(3 sec uptime) (40 sec cd)

    Lets focus on uptimes first. 14seconds of being unable to get hit due to uptime of stealth + invurn + evade
    Blurred frenzy is off cd after you open with it so add 1 sec to that, phase retreat is off cd aswell.

    15 sec of being unable to be hit. +2(+1 from low phase retreat cooldown) teleports.
    Phase retreat adds ATLEAST 2 seconds of not being able to be hit, every time you use it, due to leap + detarget.
    phase retreat x2 = 4 seconds.

    15+4= 19.
    blink = 2 seconds ATLEAST aswell
    19+2 = 21.

    If mirage mirror is procced multiple times add 1 sec every proc.
    add multiple access to dazes (1 sec each)

    21+++ sec. of defensive uptimes.

    Did you actually link Mass Invisibility unironically? Your entire argument is based on the assumption that the Mirage is just going to string these all together in a largely inefficient and ineffective waste of skills.

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:

    @ErazorZ.5209 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @ErazorZ.5209 said:
    Nerf everything mesmer. Mirage, Chrono AND mesmer.

    The uptime defenses are broken. Anyone stating anything different will need to come with some evidence supporting there claims.

    The magical 7 defensives basically make you immune to every sort of attack imaginable 20+ sec of not being able to take damage? and you mesmers still think its fine? lolol.

    Care to explain your numbers? Specifically what single build has all this and, assuming you aren't claiming infinite invulnerability, what period of time/how often "20+ seconds of not being able to take damage" happens? By all means, let's get to the bottom of this.

    I also see somuch hypocrisy in the mesmer forums. On one hand theyr like 'but this class can do this X and Y' and then you bring up what other classes cant do and there supreme cooldowns 'But we are talking about mesmer'

    Theyr asking for buffs to stuff that is normalised, and any nerfs are automatically deemed a l2p issue.
    Then some random mesmer starts QQing about how theyve been 'nerfed' somuch already. Like really? You really think just because your class has been shaved ever so marginally your not supposed to get hit with a balance hammer when your spec is STILL overperforming. (talking about how to presserve something broken)

    Actually, looking through the many--and there are many--"mesmer complaint threads" across the forums, the regular mesmer mains seem quite reasonable. Consistently calling for changes to specific things they freely admit are too much. They do also set the facts straight and seek clarification, like when someone claims mesmers coast along on 20+ seconds of damage immunity.

    They can 1 shot during dodges... They are easy to use. And they have perma uptime defenses. How can you not see this class is broken?

    Please elaborate on the specific skill/utility combos involved here. Being able to 1-shot during a dodge seems godlike indeed. As do "perma uptime defenses."

    Oh the glorious days when warriors 6 sec invurn was deemed broken. But ofc mesmer should never be hit ever with the 'powercreep of PoF' and keep there insane 20+ sec uptime godmode whilst being able to one shot.

    Again, please elaborate on this.

    Basically all i see new mesmers do is spam clones. once theyr targetted spam invurn, dodge to condi spam one shot, and blink into stealth. This is the EASIEST class mechanic they have ever introduced for something that has a 20+ sec uptime.

    So easy that all leaderboards are utterly dominated by mesmer specs?

    On a side note, why do you hate mesmers so much? It's as if you were traumatized by one as a young child. :/

    I think all mesmers should be aware of the magical 7 skills.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Prestige (3 sec uptime) (30 sec cd)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blink(30 sec cd)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phase_Retreat(8sec cd traited)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blurred_Frenzy(1 sec uptime) (10 sec cd)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Distortion(1 sec uptime) (50 sec cd) (Distortion + mirage mirror traited +1 uptime) (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reformed_Mirage_Mirror)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mass_Invisibility(5 sec uptimes) (90sec cd)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Decoy(3 sec uptime) (40 sec cd)

    Lets focus on uptimes first. 14seconds of being unable to get hit due to uptime of stealth + invurn + evade
    Blurred frenzy is off cd after you open with it so add 1 sec to that, phase retreat is off cd aswell.

    15 sec of being unable to be hit. +2(+1 from low phase retreat cooldown) teleports.
    Phase retreat adds ATLEAST 2 seconds of not being able to be hit, every time you use it, due to leap + detarget.
    phase retreat x2 = 4 seconds.

    15+4= 19.
    blink = 2 seconds ATLEAST aswell
    19+2 = 21.

    If mirage mirror is procced multiple times add 1 sec every proc.
    add multiple access to dazes (1 sec each)

    21+++ sec. of defensive uptimes.

    Did you actually link Mass Invisibility unironically? Your entire argument is based on the assumption that the Mirage is just going to string these all together in a largely inefficient and ineffective waste of skills.

    I think it's more interesting that decoy is there. On a different note I think it's awesome phase retreat is an imaginary 4s defensive skill.

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • EpicTurtle.8571EpicTurtle.8571 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:

    @ErazorZ.5209 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @ErazorZ.5209 said:
    Nerf everything mesmer. Mirage, Chrono AND mesmer.

    The uptime defenses are broken. Anyone stating anything different will need to come with some evidence supporting there claims.

    The magical 7 defensives basically make you immune to every sort of attack imaginable 20+ sec of not being able to take damage? and you mesmers still think its fine? lolol.

    Care to explain your numbers? Specifically what single build has all this and, assuming you aren't claiming infinite invulnerability, what period of time/how often "20+ seconds of not being able to take damage" happens? By all means, let's get to the bottom of this.

    I also see somuch hypocrisy in the mesmer forums. On one hand theyr like 'but this class can do this X and Y' and then you bring up what other classes cant do and there supreme cooldowns 'But we are talking about mesmer'

    Theyr asking for buffs to stuff that is normalised, and any nerfs are automatically deemed a l2p issue.
    Then some random mesmer starts QQing about how theyve been 'nerfed' somuch already. Like really? You really think just because your class has been shaved ever so marginally your not supposed to get hit with a balance hammer when your spec is STILL overperforming. (talking about how to presserve something broken)

    Actually, looking through the many--and there are many--"mesmer complaint threads" across the forums, the regular mesmer mains seem quite reasonable. Consistently calling for changes to specific things they freely admit are too much. They do also set the facts straight and seek clarification, like when someone claims mesmers coast along on 20+ seconds of damage immunity.

    They can 1 shot during dodges... They are easy to use. And they have perma uptime defenses. How can you not see this class is broken?

    Please elaborate on the specific skill/utility combos involved here. Being able to 1-shot during a dodge seems godlike indeed. As do "perma uptime defenses."

    Oh the glorious days when warriors 6 sec invurn was deemed broken. But ofc mesmer should never be hit ever with the 'powercreep of PoF' and keep there insane 20+ sec uptime godmode whilst being able to one shot.

    Again, please elaborate on this.

    Basically all i see new mesmers do is spam clones. once theyr targetted spam invurn, dodge to condi spam one shot, and blink into stealth. This is the EASIEST class mechanic they have ever introduced for something that has a 20+ sec uptime.

    So easy that all leaderboards are utterly dominated by mesmer specs?

    On a side note, why do you hate mesmers so much? It's as if you were traumatized by one as a young child. :/

    I think all mesmers should be aware of the magical 7 skills.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Prestige (3 sec uptime) (30 sec cd)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blink(30 sec cd)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phase_Retreat(8sec cd traited)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blurred_Frenzy(1 sec uptime) (10 sec cd)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Distortion(1 sec uptime) (50 sec cd) (Distortion + mirage mirror traited +1 uptime) (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reformed_Mirage_Mirror)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mass_Invisibility(5 sec uptimes) (90sec cd)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Decoy(3 sec uptime) (40 sec cd)

    Lets focus on uptimes first. 14seconds of being unable to get hit due to uptime of stealth + invurn + evade
    Blurred frenzy is off cd after you open with it so add 1 sec to that, phase retreat is off cd aswell.

    15 sec of being unable to be hit. +2(+1 from low phase retreat cooldown) teleports.
    Phase retreat adds ATLEAST 2 seconds of not being able to be hit, every time you use it, due to leap + detarget.
    phase retreat x2 = 4 seconds.

    15+4= 19.
    blink = 2 seconds ATLEAST aswell
    19+2 = 21.

    If mirage mirror is procced multiple times add 1 sec every proc.
    add multiple access to dazes (1 sec each)

    21+++ sec. of defensive uptimes.

    Did you actually link Mass Invisibility unironically? Your entire argument is based on the assumption that the Mirage is just going to string these all together in a largely inefficient and ineffective waste of skills.

    I think it's more interesting that decoy is there. On a different note I think it's awesome phase retreat is an imaginary 4s defensive skill.

    At this rate next patch it'll give us 25 vuln stacks and teleport us next to our target.

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:

    @ErazorZ.5209 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @ErazorZ.5209 said:
    Nerf everything mesmer. Mirage, Chrono AND mesmer.

    The uptime defenses are broken. Anyone stating anything different will need to come with some evidence supporting there claims.

    The magical 7 defensives basically make you immune to every sort of attack imaginable 20+ sec of not being able to take damage? and you mesmers still think its fine? lolol.

    Care to explain your numbers? Specifically what single build has all this and, assuming you aren't claiming infinite invulnerability, what period of time/how often "20+ seconds of not being able to take damage" happens? By all means, let's get to the bottom of this.

    I also see somuch hypocrisy in the mesmer forums. On one hand theyr like 'but this class can do this X and Y' and then you bring up what other classes cant do and there supreme cooldowns 'But we are talking about mesmer'

    Theyr asking for buffs to stuff that is normalised, and any nerfs are automatically deemed a l2p issue.
    Then some random mesmer starts QQing about how theyve been 'nerfed' somuch already. Like really? You really think just because your class has been shaved ever so marginally your not supposed to get hit with a balance hammer when your spec is STILL overperforming. (talking about how to presserve something broken)

    Actually, looking through the many--and there are many--"mesmer complaint threads" across the forums, the regular mesmer mains seem quite reasonable. Consistently calling for changes to specific things they freely admit are too much. They do also set the facts straight and seek clarification, like when someone claims mesmers coast along on 20+ seconds of damage immunity.

    They can 1 shot during dodges... They are easy to use. And they have perma uptime defenses. How can you not see this class is broken?

    Please elaborate on the specific skill/utility combos involved here. Being able to 1-shot during a dodge seems godlike indeed. As do "perma uptime defenses."

    Oh the glorious days when warriors 6 sec invurn was deemed broken. But ofc mesmer should never be hit ever with the 'powercreep of PoF' and keep there insane 20+ sec uptime godmode whilst being able to one shot.

    Again, please elaborate on this.

    Basically all i see new mesmers do is spam clones. once theyr targetted spam invurn, dodge to condi spam one shot, and blink into stealth. This is the EASIEST class mechanic they have ever introduced for something that has a 20+ sec uptime.

    So easy that all leaderboards are utterly dominated by mesmer specs?

    On a side note, why do you hate mesmers so much? It's as if you were traumatized by one as a young child. :/

    I think all mesmers should be aware of the magical 7 skills.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Prestige (3 sec uptime) (30 sec cd)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blink(30 sec cd)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phase_Retreat(8sec cd traited)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blurred_Frenzy(1 sec uptime) (10 sec cd)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Distortion(1 sec uptime) (50 sec cd) (Distortion + mirage mirror traited +1 uptime) (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reformed_Mirage_Mirror)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mass_Invisibility(5 sec uptimes) (90sec cd)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Decoy(3 sec uptime) (40 sec cd)

    Lets focus on uptimes first. 14seconds of being unable to get hit due to uptime of stealth + invurn + evade
    Blurred frenzy is off cd after you open with it so add 1 sec to that, phase retreat is off cd aswell.

    15 sec of being unable to be hit. +2(+1 from low phase retreat cooldown) teleports.
    Phase retreat adds ATLEAST 2 seconds of not being able to be hit, every time you use it, due to leap + detarget.
    phase retreat x2 = 4 seconds.

    15+4= 19.
    blink = 2 seconds ATLEAST aswell
    19+2 = 21.

    If mirage mirror is procced multiple times add 1 sec every proc.
    add multiple access to dazes (1 sec each)

    21+++ sec. of defensive uptimes.

    Did you actually link Mass Invisibility uniskill.ly? Your entire argument is based on the assumption that the Mirage is just going to string these all together in a largely inefficient and ineffective waste of skills.

    I think it's more interesting that decoy is there. On a different note I think it's awesome phase retreat is an imaginary 4s defensive skill.

    At this rate next patch it'll give us 25 vuln stacks and teleport us next to our target.

    lol probably. Funny that core skills from 2012 are now a problem in 2019. I bet if mesmer got a kit like sustain weaver people would still complain. Owell, here's to hoping the devs are smart enough to sift through nonsense like this and address actual issues

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • @ErazorZ.5209 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @ErazorZ.5209 said:
    Nerf everything mesmer. Mirage, Chrono AND mesmer.

    The uptime defenses are broken. Anyone stating anything different will need to come with some evidence supporting there claims.

    The magical 7 defensives basically make you immune to every sort of attack imaginable 20+ sec of not being able to take damage? and you mesmers still think its fine? lolol.

    Care to explain your numbers? Specifically what single build has all this and, assuming you aren't claiming infinite invulnerability, what period of time/how often "20+ seconds of not being able to take damage" happens? By all means, let's get to the bottom of this.

    I also see somuch hypocrisy in the mesmer forums. On one hand theyr like 'but this class can do this X and Y' and then you bring up what other classes cant do and there supreme cooldowns 'But we are talking about mesmer'

    Theyr asking for buffs to stuff that is normalised, and any nerfs are automatically deemed a l2p issue.
    Then some random mesmer starts QQing about how theyve been 'nerfed' somuch already. Like really? You really think just because your class has been shaved ever so marginally your not supposed to get hit with a balance hammer when your spec is STILL overperforming. (talking about how to presserve something broken)

    Actually, looking through the many--and there are many--"mesmer complaint threads" across the forums, the regular mesmer mains seem quite reasonable. Consistently calling for changes to specific things they freely admit are too much. They do also set the facts straight and seek clarification, like when someone claims mesmers coast along on 20+ seconds of damage immunity.

    They can 1 shot during dodges... They are easy to use. And they have perma uptime defenses. How can you not see this class is broken?

    Please elaborate on the specific skill/utility combos involved here. Being able to 1-shot during a dodge seems godlike indeed. As do "perma uptime defenses."

    Oh the glorious days when warriors 6 sec invurn was deemed broken. But ofc mesmer should never be hit ever with the 'powercreep of PoF' and keep there insane 20+ sec uptime godmode whilst being able to one shot.

    Again, please elaborate on this.

    Basically all i see new mesmers do is spam clones. once theyr targetted spam invurn, dodge to condi spam one shot, and blink into stealth. This is the EASIEST class mechanic they have ever introduced for something that has a 20+ sec uptime.

    So easy that all leaderboards are utterly dominated by mesmer specs?

    On a side note, why do you hate mesmers so much? It's as if you were traumatized by one as a young child. :/

    I think all mesmers should be aware of the magical 7 skills.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Prestige (3 sec uptime) (30 sec cd)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blink(30 sec cd)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phase_Retreat(8sec cd traited)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blurred_Frenzy(1 sec uptime) (10 sec cd)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Distortion(1 sec uptime) (50 sec cd) (Distortion + mirage mirror traited +1 uptime) (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reformed_Mirage_Mirror)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mass_Invisibility(5 sec uptimes) (90sec cd)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Decoy(3 sec uptime) (40 sec cd)

    Lets focus on uptimes first. 14seconds of being unable to get hit due to uptime of stealth + invurn + evade
    Blurred frenzy is off cd after you open with it so add 1 sec to that, phase retreat is off cd aswell.

    15 sec of being unable to be hit. +2(+1 from low phase retreat cooldown) teleports.
    Phase retreat adds ATLEAST 2 seconds of not being able to be hit, every time you use it, due to leap + detarget.
    phase retreat x2 = 4 seconds.

    15+4= 19.
    blink = 2 seconds ATLEAST aswell
    19+2 = 21.

    If mirage mirror is procced multiple times add 1 sec every proc.
    add multiple access to dazes (1 sec each)

    21+++ sec. of defensive uptimes.

    • "21+++ sec. of defensive uptimes," while quite misleading as you define it above, is still not the same as what you repeated in your previous post: "20+ seconds of not being able to take damage", "20+ seconds of damage immunity", and "insane 20+ sec uptime godmode whilst being able to one shot." Are you changing your original claims?
    • Stealth is not invulnerability. Minus 3 seconds for The Prestige, 5 seconds for Mass Invisibility (which by the way, literally no one uses), and 3 seconds for Decoy.
    • Blink and Phase Retreat offer mobility, not invulnerability or detarget. No different from comparable skills in other professions like Shadowstep, and inferior to Swoop.
    • Speaking of "one shot", you never addressed this: "They can 1 shot during dodges." Feel free to explain.
    • A build comprised of sword/torch + staff has inferior damage output. So if your goal was to assemble an assortment of weapons, traits, and utilities that maybe allow one to run, hide, and do almost no damage, you somewhat succeeded. But seeing as no one plays such a build, it's also pretty irrelevant.
  • Fair bro. so fair.

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