Achievement Point Discussion
hellsqueen.3045
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I hunt achievements quite frequently. I work my kitten off for them because I am desperate to at least get as many armor skins as I can.
I have only been playing for just over 3 years now and I only have just under 13k achievement points, this means I am not even halfway to my first chest piece.
There is a lot of content missing from the game that used to award tons of achievements points, with LWS1 gone, there is a huge set of AP that players do not get to earn.
This post on reddit a year ago and some top comments on it, cover fairly well some of the issues, especially for newcomers.
I don't think I have ever seen anyone close to the the 60,000 AP reward.
I have barely seen people at 30k and those people were long term players who have played everything there is.
I can't see it being a realistic goal for me to reach that many points, no matter how much I farm for AP.
Founder of Affinitus Nemus [AFNM]
"Join Us, We're Lonely" - Our Guild At Some Point
JUST LIKE THE LORAX, WE SPEAK FOR THE TREES!
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Hello AP Hunter! You seem to be confused about Achievement Points a little so let me give you some information to help you out.
It is true that LWS1, festival, and some other retired achievements are now unobtainable. Anyone who starts today (or after LWS1 for that matter) for AP will not catch those at the top as long as the top continually plays and searches out AP. Sadly, this is just the way it is for the leaderboards or those you may see above 30k. However, reaching 30k AP as of today isn't unobtainable and just takes time.
Some things to think about is Daily AP is capped at 15k. It is calculated Monthly AP + Daily AP = Current Daily AP or 15k. Those who did Monthly AP's have no more advantage than someone who didn't; they simple reached the max sooner. Also, top AP is held by Animaniak at 38,736 AP. So you definitely haven't seen anyone near 60k. (Maybe a typo?) Those above 30k are also in the top 1-3% of players so they too are a rarity to find.
The armor pieces you're thinking of are at 30k and 36k. The first is definitely achievable but the latter may take another year or so for those who came after LWS1. The backpieces to finish the sets are at 39k and 42k and cannot be reached yet. So if you've been working your booty off to reach it, you're not alone and keep going. AP is usually a measurement of dedication, time, and determination for the game itself. Make sure you also play every aspect of GW2 (WvW, PvE, PvP, Raids, etc.) to max your AP earning potential. You'd be surprised how much AP you can earn doing a little of those each day/week. Good luck to you.
Sources: https://leaderboards.guildwars2.com/en/eu/achievements
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Achievement_rewards
Myself after 10k hours over 2275 days on my 34,123 AP account
MMO's are marathons. They're not 10k's, miles, or sprints. Max AP is an ultra-marathon. Such goals are better pursued as a "maybe someday," not a "got to have."
This is the nature of the MMO beast. MMO's make money by giving players reasons to play long-term. That is unlikely to change.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- Santayana
Another thing to consider is that every single new release brings new achievements. The fact that there's rewards up to 60,000AP doesn't mean Anet expects that to be achievable now, just that they're planning ahead for when it will be achievable - it was probably easier to add a ton of rewards in one go than one new one every time someone gets closer to the next chest. Also it lets the achievement hunters know there will be more stuff to get so they have an incentive to keep going.
Danielle Aurorel, Desolation EU. Mini Collector
"You can run like a river, Till you end up in the sea
And you run till night is black, And keep on going in your dreams
And you know all the long while, It's the journey that you seek
It's the miles of moving forward, With the wind beneath your wings"
And you won't see anyone with 60k AP in many years. And that's a good thing, otherwise there would be no reason to have more AP going forward. Also, notice how there is a gap in the rewards at 45k and above. The achievement reward list isn't complete, it's not like a reward track that has fixed rewards, instead more rewards will be added to it over the years.
The only reason we see rewards up to 60,000 is that information was data-mined. It's not like ArenaNet officially released the upcoming rewards.
I will personally be surprised if 60k is ever reached given the lowered budgets for AP. This seems like an easy horizontal progression system for them to tweak and look at each release.
What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .
I've been playing since release, took a 15 month break (more or less) around HoT release, but have been playing non-stop since then. Played through LW1, but apparently I missed a lot of potential AP during it, because I'm at 26558.
Oh well, some day!
In the event I don't get a chance, thank you all for the company and help when I needed it from time to time.
We REALLY need a solution for all those players who missed Living World season 1 and its achievements.
Also, I would still love to see ArenaNet's Long-term plans for achievement rewards. I keep wondering for instance what the path is to 60,000, if there ultimately will be more rewards for achievement ranks.
I also wonder why the recent expansion and living world releases seem to be a bit lacking in AP rewards. Especailly when you compare it to the amount of AP in LW Season 1 and 2 as well as temporary festivals. Players who miss the festivals really will get a hard time to reach the upper levels, as well as players who missed Season 1.
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The 60k limit is probably a technical limitation, so they would want to stretch out those points until the game is over. Once it's over, they'll probably raise the daily cap to keep people playing for years, especially if they do another HoM based on AP.
The FOMO is strong in these threads.
AP is not a reward track. It shouldn’t be thought of as something to complete. The rewards are to give you a bit of something back for your time investment.
AP is not finite. Anet will continue to add AP into the game at the rate they choose to.
AP from S1/Historic isn’t as much as people think. I think I read somewhere it’s less than 4k Points.
You aren’t entitled to earn the Achievements, and the points associated, that players earned from S1, because you were not there. It’s that simple.
Better get a wriggle on.
Except it is a reward track. I can see it right there at the top of my cheeve panel . . .
Exactly. The actual number of temporary LS1 AP is only 1926 and 165 retired achievements for a total of missing AP: 2091
The other AP that are missing from many players are the AP from the Festivals. This is a rather huge number if we combine all the festivals up to now, but given how current festivals also have temporary achievements this isn't likely to change in the future and with good reason - giving an extra incentive to play during a festival. So we are talking about a little over 2k AP that newer players are missing.
You can't see the 60k reward can you?
The rate of points per LW and content updates is pretty close on average. That however is misdirection that people intentionally not include important key parts to help their arguments.
The amount per achievement point is a lot more work overall now. Before they gave 1-3 for ones you can get on accident or just do automatically, 5 for ones you intended to do, 10 or 25 for checklist collections, and 15 for single challenging tasks. Now its 1-3 across the board and the occasional 10 (even as low as 5) which takes weeks if you do it hard every day.
This is perfectly normal considering LS1 achievements had a very harsh/strict time limit, after all they were only available for about 2 weeks. An achievement that has a 2-week time limit can definitely offer 10, 20, or 25 AP for completion, even if it's easier/faster than an achievement without a time limit that takes months.
No, the segment of the Achievement Point Reward Track that shows at the top of my cheeve panel only shows the next five rewards, so to see the 60k reward I would need to be between 57,500 and 58k. That's not really a problem given how gradual progress along the Achievement Point Reward Track typically is. If they showed the whole thing at once it would be kind of depressing for most folks I imagine . . .
Then it's not a reward track if you can't see the end of it.
It's not a reward track when all its rewards aren't done.
It's not a reward track if the rewards from it were data mined and not provided by Arenanet.
It's not a reward track if we don't know 60k is the limit. 60k is the highest that was data mined, that doesn't mean that's any kind of a limit.
If there is a chance for so many rewards to exist, surely it wouldn't hurt to boost the AP amounts a smidge.
It doesn't really feel rewarding to get all those achievement points and still not feel any closer to your goals.
Founder of Affinitus Nemus [AFNM]
"Join Us, We're Lonely" - Our Guild At Some Point
JUST LIKE THE LORAX, WE SPEAK FOR THE TREES!
The oddest thing in this thread is this 60k AP thing and I blame the datamining that spawned it. I saw the original data and accidental leak back in the day... more than 60k was outlined. The limit to AP is the current limit you have right now from daily and permanent AP. Some wiki article outlining to an imaginary 60k point has nothing to do with it. Anet could say they have up to 600k AP rewards outlined but until they implement the achievements you're just speculating and exaggerating an impossible outcome that may never be seen. I hope Anet never rewards players for experiences they weren't there for or time and effort they never could put in.
Also, I agree it's not a reward track. It will probably never have an end and all tracks have an end. The rewards are icing on a cake.
Set more realistic goals then.
It is a different style of reward track, but still a reward track. This is an ongoing one and not finite like the wvw/pvps. It is ultimately whether an rnd is ever set is irrelevant for calling it a reward track - it still tracks your progress through it hands out a smal, gradual return of rewards in terms of skins and account based enhancements. How far ahead it shows is just a limitation of the ui dedign because the track is so big and has yet to have a final stage.
Whether or not there is agreement on an improvement to it or the ap levels given out, it is def a reward track.
What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .
By being infinite, it's not a track anymore. Tracks always have an end. Further, if it was a reward track, it would be here:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reward_track
But it's not, because it's fundamentally different to the others so why call it a "reward track", when it looks nothing like one
The AP rewards are more akin to a shop reward scheme. It’s never ending, consistent, and gives a similar but varied award for each milestone, with every 5k being the “nice one for your commitment to the game!” Chest. This is why the small, large and heavy Achievement chests repeat.
It’s not a track to complete.
It’s a bonus scheme.
Better get a wriggle on.
I wish I could, my goal is only the 30k Milestone for the Radiant Chest piece so I can complete my first cosplay. I generally avoid doing them because of reasons of things sometimes being far too difficult to obtain. Like I am committed and regardless of what happens I am going to keep working, but it is just frustrating that no matter how hard I grind achievements, I will probably still end up taking another 3 years to reach 26k. It seems crazy that in 6 years, people have only just gotten some of the rewards that achievements offer in terms of the 30k milestones. I feel bad for all of those very few people, this commitment gets them less than just waiting for their character birthday's now. The year 6 armor set is gorgeous and you don't have to do any work for it.
Founder of Affinitus Nemus [AFNM]
"Join Us, We're Lonely" - Our Guild At Some Point
JUST LIKE THE LORAX, WE SPEAK FOR THE TREES!
hm, I am playing a bit over 2 years now, have left 15.5k AP behind me, planning to reach 16k at the end of the year, maybe 16.5k.
8k per year is doable (at least in the first two years with lots of lw2/3/hot/pof points), without pushing one too hard.
Why though, Anet all but stopped those who play daily from progressing in AP until an update comes out that gives 50-100AP, those who missed LS1 will eventually get the rewards from AP as they play, i find it strange people want 1 group of players kneecapped from progressing but want another group given free stuff from the game that was available long before they even played,
Ive never picked up a game years after it came out and thought, its totally unfair that some people who played from day 1 have more than me, it boggles the mind that people in this community still think and believe that they are entitled to everything without even putting the time and effort it.
Its pretty clear Anet slowed the AP down because of rewards and or some people using the complaint that i need to grind them out, where as if you only get 1AP for a weeks worth of grinding some people are less likely to bother with it, and the end of the day AP is linked to personal reward it doesnt affect anyone else other than in bragging rights, and i feel Anet missed that point completely by restricting veteran players over casuals who play 1 hour a day or less "because they couldn't catch up"
Don't say what you mean, it will get you in trouble.
I think it is less "these people have more than me"
And more "I can never access all the things that they have had access too"
Generally, people expect to have the same chances to earn these things but the lack of LWS1 stuff means that they are still short compared to their fellow players.
It is one thing to have more for playing longer but a whole other thing to have had access to more than many other players.
Founder of Affinitus Nemus [AFNM]
"Join Us, We're Lonely" - Our Guild At Some Point
JUST LIKE THE LORAX, WE SPEAK FOR THE TREES!
In terms of earning the higher AP rewards, For now.
For now.
In terms of the AP rewards, which this thread is about, people that sank their time into the game have ergo earned more. This doesn’t mean you will never get the same rewards, since AP is infinitely added to the game when Anet choose to do so. This goes back to thinking about the AP rewards as a ‘track’ to complete, instead of a reward scheme.
You’d have a point if Anet announced they’re not adding any more points to the game.
Better get a wriggle on.
If I’m reading gw2efficiency correctly, on top of 15,000 maximum AP for Daily and now discontinued monthly points, there’s 16,000~ Permanent Points actually in the game. So, 31,000 permanent AP exists in the game right now. Then we can start to add on the seasonal AP people can earn each and every year.
To quote Maddoctor, who provided exact numbers (thanks)
Considering these numbers, those discontinued APs aren’t that big a deal if you still haven’t capped out on Daily points, or earned a big chunk of that permanent 16kAP.
Thank u, next.
Better get a wriggle on.
If they ever stopped releasing them, there will be people who are permanently short.
People already miss out on straight up story and the things that came with it.
That is simply a bad design.
It is one thing to have DLC or Expansion which are behind paywalls.
It is a whole other things that LWS1 has only been able to be done by a portion of the community with no hope for the rest.
I'd pay for LWS1 if they could work it into the game, I paid for LWS2 because I joined after it.
I want to play the game without missing out simply because of a bad design choice that means people discovering the game late can never play it at all.
Founder of Affinitus Nemus [AFNM]
"Join Us, We're Lonely" - Our Guild At Some Point
JUST LIKE THE LORAX, WE SPEAK FOR THE TREES!
Neither of those reasons subtract from it being a reward track. It's just a different type of track to the others. A reward track doesn't have to have an end at all to define it.
It progresses and rewards like a reward track does, it just does so in an unrelated to way to the others as it is a diff system.
What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .
Would having those extra 2k AP from LS1 allow you to reach your goal now? Or you'd still complain anyway?
Because this part of your OP is about just those 2k AP:
So it's like a reward track but with a different system.... and you still call it a reward track. We'll agree to disagree here, because the achievement rewards are a different system and are not even recognized by the game itself as a "reward track" (you can't get bonus AP progress items/buffs) so I'll continue calling them completely different because to me, they are.
Yes 31,663 AP are available in the game right now, there was some form of mess up with the AP semi-recently that removed historical achievements from the tracker, and gw2efficiency lost those as well. I think the developer of the API made a change that reset the API, now everything was in an "undiscovered" state until players re-discovered them. Only items that players find/achieve are visible on the API and while items, recipes and current achievements were re-achieved and re-added to the tracker, we'll never get access to the historical AP again because no player can ever achieve those again because they are no longer available so they are lost forever from the API.
Luckily I saved a copy of the AP totals in an excel file to keep them alive.
The top EU player has 38742 AP. Now if we add the 2097 from LS1 we get a total of 33760. the rest, about 5k-6k AP, is from festivals... ouch.
Let's put 1 thing in perspective, the majority of AP missing for newer players is dailies. Period.
The feeling of you never being able to reach or achieve what others have is to a very big amount based on the fact that you have spent less time on the game. Something which can correct its self with time. It is not locked away from you.
As mentioned by maddoctor, the actual unavailable amount of AP is minuscule. People are looking at total AP (max being 38742 currently for the Leaderboard leader) and then assume them trailing behind is due to unavailable AP. That is simply not the case. Almost half of those AP are from the 15,000 daily AP cap, which most new players have not achieved yet.
As far as availability, call yourself what you want, if you have played the game for 3 years and have around 13k AP you are not an AP hunter (daily AP alone for that time is close to 11k meaning you have completed around 2k AP if you've been as dedicated as you say). You are a player who enjoys collecting AP (and that is fine, just realize you are NOT an AP hunter), there is people far more dedicated than you though (not going to argue that 24/7 playing a game is healthy or good, but there is a huge difference in game time allocation here).
You now have a choice:
or
Also the data-mined 60k AP might never actually ever get reached at the pace that AP are getting added into the game and the usual lifetime of an MMO. Aiming for that is just ludicrous. All the realistic rewards are or will become available by the time you reach the 15k AP daily cap.
It may not get me to my goal, but it will get me closer.
It gives me more to choose from to reach my goal.
Right now I am forcing myself to do achievements that make me feel like sometimes what I am doing isn't worth it.
PvP achievements make me miserable, but here I am, still doing them.
Overall, I just think the game could be a little more generous for everyone when it comes to AP.
You have to work your butt off for it and yet there is like tons of other stuff where you can work less hard for more.
Wanting extra achievements that comes from something I have always wanted to experience, I guess that is a whole other gripe.
Founder of Affinitus Nemus [AFNM]
"Join Us, We're Lonely" - Our Guild At Some Point
JUST LIKE THE LORAX, WE SPEAK FOR THE TREES!
You do the thing, you progress along the track, which provides rewards. It is a reward track. It's absurd to argue otherwise . . .
This is why I've always felt removing the unique rewards and just having the reward track repeat would be the best solution . . .
Giving the unending nature of the reward track, it needs an unending source of ap. Dailies were one solution. The sunken treasure chest thing was another great addition which took 99 days to complete, unless you got lucky and rng shortened it for you. As long as they keep introducing regular sources of ap, there really isn't any problem with the ap reward track except that there are some ppl who can't recognize it for what it is . . .
So you want to work less for more? It doesn't and shouldn't work that way. "I want something far down the road that I have to work toward faster because others started before me." "I want this thing now so the system should change, not me." True AP hunters adapt and work hard to get these rewards. They don't ask for the system to change because the work gets tough.
Here's some more numbers for you. 16 hours a week can get you 10k AP your first year as long as you progress through the game. I know this because I did it on a fresh account (on stream in front of an audience mind you). I reached the 10k AP in 11 months then stopped actively playing the account. That account is now 2 years old and has over 14k AP. I haven't even progressed through all of PoF or completed HoT. I also haven't done much in WvW or PvP either. Other players have reported reaching 12k AP the first year of play and some players can reach 18k AP by the end of their second year. Only about 7.3k of that is dailies so that means by the end of year 3 players should be holding 23k+ AP if they are actively achievement hunting and logging in daily. That 23k+ AP is where most of the achievement hunters were at back in 2015. The system hasn't excluded enough AP to handicap newer players and, at this point, never will. You have to put the same amount of time or effort (maybe a little less) to reach the same rewards we have.
You mean like Daily Log-in Rewards. Anet has given us that system as well. And if you can't tell what systems are already in place then you go ahead and muddy the waters with this "AP Reward Track" thing. Those who know the system well cringe knowing you think reward tracks don't end. You even say "just having the reward track repeat" in your last post. The Daily Log-in Reward system is a reward track, sure, but not the AP reward system.
And to help if you don't understand, tracks are usually infinite loops. I say usually because some reward tracks in the game can't be repeated. The AP reward system is linear with intersecting rewards every so many points. This is much like leveling a character or what some like to call vertical progression. Feels good to get a bigger number and be recognized for it.
There is no "extra AP gain buff", like with reward tracks. It's not on the reward track entry on the wiki. It's infinite and not finite, it's not even complete. You can't see any of the rewards unless you data-mine it. It's not a reward track and it's absurd to argue otherwise.
Except it is a reward track bc as you progress along it you receive rewards. I find this dispute comical . . .
You're wrong and you should change your mind . . .
So leveling is a reward track too? Everything in the game that has increasing numbers and gives a reward is a reward track? Masteries are earned in reward tracks? Earning gold itself is a reward track because the number goes up and I can get something? Where's the line? I find it comical you want to generalize something hugely so you can be right in a post about AP and how to obtain it effectively. Can we move back on topic?
You can totally start a new topic on schemes and paradigms if you wish.
I mean, throughout this post (including comments) I have been asking for a slight increase for everyone. I don't desire to get ahead of anyone who has been working their butt off and has more achievements then me.
I just think some things that reward AP give too little sometimes and that everyone deserves a few points more across the achievements we have. Just like a few more for certain things.
For example, token collecter in Ember Bay offered 1AP per token.
But Coin Collecting in Dry Top gave 15AP for 30 coins and 5AP for 12. I don't necessarily want one for every coin, but like a small increase in numbers, at the very least the 30 coin ones could award 20AP, instead of 15. Just small little boosts for some things. This is just an example but they probably can't update old ones for everyone, so it is more just a thought about what would make it feel better.
It doesn't even make it so those Achieves even close to match the rewards of Token Collector, but it just bumps it up slightly.
Founder of Affinitus Nemus [AFNM]
"Join Us, We're Lonely" - Our Guild At Some Point
JUST LIKE THE LORAX, WE SPEAK FOR THE TREES!
Keep in mind that festivals keep using the LS1 system (be there or miss out on achievements)
I have only one good memory from LS1, scarlet's chest gave me my first and only precursor, she was really annoying. It was very hard for those player who played outside na primetime. For the event of the 5 lanes of the marionette many players (me incl.) were guesting on BG or JQ, because the lower population server couldn't make it or their world boss train farmed the event in their primetime, leaving players from other timezones left behind. The megaserver didn't exist there. Yes I always wanted to free Lion's Arch, but I had no chance, even when I've tried many times. So don't think you would have got the ap easily during the short 2 weeks period. I'm more than happy that anet changed the Living Story in repeatable chapters.
I started playing the game around 3 months ago and I have like 5.6k AP where around 600 are from dailies.
I am also an AP hunter, played the game for almost 3 years and I am at 18k though I have skipped dailies often. I believe in you!!
I was very sad when I learned that nobody has attained a full set (including back item) of radiant (or hellfire) armor. I thought I just didn't play enough (although, one would think averaging almost 5 hours a day for the life of the game SHOULD be enough).
Apparently, ANet intended this game to live 10 years or more, because STILL nobody has made it to 39,000.
I still play, but I've lost all hope of every getting my goal of full radiant armor. If the gods of the game can't do it, what hope have I?