Ele elites — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Ele elites

I know this topic has been discussed countless times since August 2012. But I wanted to know: Is there a particular reason ele is the only class with not only no low-cd elites but also among the highest-cd and clunkiest among all specs ? Or is it just to give the class that special flavor?
Can't we slot a normal utility instead? There are so many that feel more elite.

Comments

  • Glyph of elemental is very good in solo pve, long duration, moderate cooldown.
    That earth elemental saved me more than I can count. The lesser one is not strong enough vs champs.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ah yes, sorry i had PvP in mind, but i agree there are situations where ele elites can come in handy. It's just that i wish I could make good use of one of those runes with 45s cd on elite skill activation... :3

  • Stallic.2397Stallic.2397 Member ✭✭✭

    Rune of Lyssa used to be pretty decent with tempest elite. 5 condition conversion, plus you get an aura in the end.
    But this new update nerfed the number to 3. So that build is scrapped.

  • They want to give the feeling of summoning very powerful magical spells, but because of balance they are unable to live up to their ideas.

  • Dahir.4158Dahir.4158 Member ✭✭✭

    @lLobo.7960 said:
    To be honest, if tornado was something you summoned on a location, instead of a transformation, it would be much better.

    Please make this happen and make it HIT HARD.

    Broski Supreme - Borsk Carry Effect

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stallic.2397 said:
    Rune of Lyssa used to be pretty decent with tempest elite. 5 condition conversion, plus you get an aura in the end.
    But this new update nerfed the number to 3. So that build is scrapped.

    Yeah that's because many classes can spam their ult.. except ele but i also liked it when used with rebound.

  • LazySummer.2568LazySummer.2568 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 28, 2018

    @Aigleborgne.2981 said:
    Glyph of elemental is very good in solo pve, long duration, moderate cooldown.
    That earth elemental saved me more than I can count. The lesser one is not strong enough vs champs.

    Maybe in open world pve or personal story only.

    Rangers get that 2-in-1 for free, can command to not be a kitten (aggro/de-aggro), have annoying passive knockdowns about once every 10s and does high damage in PvP, and have a bunch of useful skills from smoke field to on-demand cc without long wind up (unlike our trash that only ever guarantees cc on stationary golemns, cant even cc moving npcs most of the time) to plasma/invisible feathers. Even necro's flesh golem is more useful because it at least do reliable cc

    I rather just use weave self for the extra boon duration, move speed, and toughness and just use tanky stats to solo champions instead of that trash elite. The only time I ever get to use it is on the pressure plate in dredge fractal where I get to buy 5 extra seconds, since high end fractal/dungeon/raids destroy that garbage in less than 10s, and only time I ever actually needed it was in the griffon collection library to tank some elites that I can actually kill before it get killed off by enemies or expires.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If tornado wasn't a transform skill... If conjure weapons worked like kits... This thread wouldn't exist :)

  • Aigleborgne.2981Aigleborgne.2981 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 28, 2018

    @LazySummer.2568 said:

    @Aigleborgne.2981 said:
    Glyph of elemental is very good in solo pve, long duration, moderate cooldown.
    That earth elemental saved me more than I can count. The lesser one is not strong enough vs champs.

    Maybe in open world pve or personal story only.

    Rangers get that 2-in-1 for free, can command to not be a kitten (aggro/de-aggro), have annoying passive knockdowns about once every 10s and does high damage in PvP, and have a bunch of useful skills from smoke field to on-demand cc without long wind up (unlike our trash that only ever guarantees cc on stationary golemns, cant even cc moving npcs most of the time) to plasma/invisible feathers. Even necro's flesh golem is more useful because it at least do reliable cc

    I rather just use weave self for the extra boon duration, move speed, and toughness and just use tanky stats to solo champions instead of that trash elite. The only time I ever get to use it is on the pressure plate in dredge fractal where I get to buy 5 extra seconds, since high end fractal/dungeon/raids destroy that garbage in less than 10s, and only time I ever actually needed it was in the griffon collection library to tank some elites that I can actually kill before it get killed off by enemies or expires.

    You can't compare this to ranger pet, which is a profession mechanic balanced by reducing ranger personnal dps.
    And yes, I was talking about core open world and personal story. There, my earth elemental is very rarely killed. And when it does, it takes at least 30 seconds, which translate to 30-60s of tranquility for me.
    I guess it was balanced for release game, since I remember having used it with great success in dungeons back in 2012.

  • for 6 years i want a cool new elite

    • breaks stun
    • cleanse 2 condis
    • 20 second recharge
  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bluberblasen.9684 said:
    for 6 years i want a cool new elite

    • breaks stun
    • cleanse 2 condis
    • 20 second recharge

    You've been drooling for warrior's core skill "shake it off!"... Ah sorry, it cleanse 6 conditions on an average 25 seconds CD...

  • LazySummer.2568LazySummer.2568 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 28, 2018

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @bluberblasen.9684 said:
    for 6 years i want a cool new elite

    • breaks stun
    • cleanse 2 condis
    • 20 second recharge

    You've been drooling for warrior's core skill "shake it off!"... Ah sorry, it cleanse 6 conditions on an average 25 seconds CD...

    dont worry, totally not biased balance team rescued us with a similar skill that has a single charge and does a cute burn.

  • @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @bluberblasen.9684 said:
    for 6 years i want a cool new elite

    • breaks stun
    • cleanse 2 condis
    • 20 second recharge

    You've been drooling for warrior's core skill "shake it off!"... Ah sorry, it cleanse 6 conditions on an average 25 seconds CD...

    got it.
    i try a new one

    breaks stun
    cleanse ALL condis
    3 seconds immun to condis.
    5000 barrier
    20 second recharge

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bluberblasen.9684 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @bluberblasen.9684 said:
    for 6 years i want a cool new elite

    • breaks stun
    • cleanse 2 condis
    • 20 second recharge

    You've been drooling for warrior's core skill "shake it off!"... Ah sorry, it cleanse 6 conditions on an average 25 seconds CD...

    got it.
    i try a new one

    breaks stun
    cleanse ALL condis
    3 seconds immun to condis.
    5000 barrier
    20 second recharge

    Add a boon based on your attunment and we are good. Deal?

  • got it.
    i try a new one

    breaks stun
    cleanse ALL condis
    3 seconds immun to condis.
    5000 barrier
    20 second recharge

    Add a boon based on your attunment and we are good. Deal?

    Make it convert all condis to boons and we have a deal.

  • lLobo.7960lLobo.7960 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2018

    Flaming Great Sword
    Two charges, charge CD: 120s
    Duration: 30s
    Summon a Flaming Great Sword at the target location, if the caster is in the target location summon it directly on the casters hand.

    Glyph of Elementals
    Summon an elemental based on your attunment.
    Duration: until it is killed (like necro flesh golem)
    CD: 30s (starting on death)

    Tornado
    Gain Stability and turn into a tornado that does dmg and effects based on your attunement.
    Combo field: attunement based (fire:fire, air: electric, earth: smoke, water: water)
    Combo finisher: whirl
    stability and damage interval: 3s
    skills:
    - 1: shoot projectiles based on attunment (fire: fireball, air: lightening, earth: stone, water: spray jet), projectile finisher (3), 1s cd, 900 range;
    - 2: burst elemental power from the tornado (fire: firestorm, air: swirling winds, earth: dust storm, water: ice storm) 1s cast, 3s cd, 900 radius 3s duration;
    - 3: gather up force into the core of your tornado (fire: pulse damage and burn into the tornado, air pull foes into the tornado and float them, earth: pull rocks that lunch down foes into the tornado, water: pull a torrent that knock down foes into the tornado and heals and cleanses allies) 1s cast, 3 pulses, 6s CD, 300 distance, 900 radius;
    - 4: push the tornado force outwards (fire: pulse dmg and burn outwards from the tornado, air launch foes outwards from the tornado, earth: throw boulders that knock back foes outwards from the tornado core, water: release a storm surge that knock back foes and heals and cleanses allies) 1s cast, 1 pulse, 6s CD, 400 distance, 900 radius;
    - 5: move swiftly forward leaving a trail based on your attunement (fire: fire field, earth: unsteady ground, air: lightening field, water: ice field)

    Signet of the Arcane
    Passive: Your attacks cause a condition based on attunement: fire: burn, air: weakness, earth: bleed, water: vulnerability.
    Active: Recharge all attunements and your attacks are unblockable for the next 5 seconds. CD: 45s

  • Zunki.3916Zunki.3916 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2018

    @lLobo.7960 said:

    Glyph of Elementals
    Summon an elemental based on your attunment.
    Duration: until it is killed (like necro flesh golem)
    CD: 30s (starting on death)

    Signet of the Arcane
    Passive: Your attacks cause a condition based on attunement: fire: burn, air: weakness, earth: bleed, water: vulnerability.
    Active: Recharge all attunements and your attacks are unblockable for the next 5 seconds. CD: 45s

    Now I'm sooo sad that this is not the case already... Really, the lack of useful elite skills is so disturbing to me, especially on elementalist. I imagine a very powerful cast in the dimensions of Meteor Shower or alike. They should feel cool and powerful, but they are just... meh...

    Viable != Optimal

    Not viable = You only get carried, 10 players with a build as "viable as yours" can't properly do it.

  • cgMatt.5162cgMatt.5162 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2018

    Most things said, the outgoing healing from Weave Self, and even the 50% movement speed are neglible effects for an elite. Could just be superspeed for Air and boon duration/healing for Water because there is nothing very support oriented on Weaver. It's bad enough we have subpar support traits like this spread across Arcane, Water, Earth, now Fire, and Tempest.

    Back to Weave Self/Elemental Polyphony, the toughness could be multiplicative damage reduction percentages so it plays better with PvE balance where some raid encounters for tanks are toughness aggro.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Replace minor glyph of elemental with the elite version. Having two elementals feels redundant.
    Replace flame axe with FGS. Having two fiery weapons feels redundant.
    Now we have two slots for 2 fresh new elites, can be glyph/arcane/signet with different effects depending on attunement.

  • Mithos.9023Mithos.9023 Member ✭✭✭

    The elementalist elite skills never felt worth it. What nagged at me most is that elementalist misses an aoe style elite skill. GW1 had so many cool skills and elite skill supplementing the elementalists play style of a mage archetype or back line caster. GW2 misses something like that completely.

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    Replace minor glyph of elemental with the elite version. Having two elementals feels redundant.
    Replace flame axe with FGS. Having two fiery weapons feels redundant.
    Now we have two slots for 2 fresh new elites, can be glyph/arcane/signet with different effects depending on attunement.

    I had the same idea for the pet some time ago, they are redundant, and the minor pet is probably one of the least used elementalist utility skills. When it comes to make summons permanent, I think it would give it some nice flair but at the end of the day, they are so weak that they would still have only a negligible influence on combat. Definitely not the “game changer” that an elite should be, based on the definition of arenanet, but being permanent would at least be a small improvement. As a side note, a permanent pet brings a conflict in, how would you summon a different elemental? The skill flips over to the elementals attack, if it was permanent the function to resummon would be permanent blocked.

    Fiery great sword is probably the best of what we have, so I don’t think replacing or moving it is necessary here. But still a tool mostly used to disengage, or a filler for dps rotations, doesn’t sound much elite like. Might need some tweaking but here solving the conjured problems first would probably be enough.

    But tornado is playing in another league of uselessness. Over my 6 years of playing gw2 it never seemed worth to slot this skill. A small exception was the meteor-tornado combo for some time. Not to mention it was changed so often and is still completely underused. You hardly see this skill being utilised at all, at least I can’t remember the last time I have seen someone use it. The transformation simply brings a too huge utility cost with it.
    I am not the biggest fan of the specialization elite skill too. It is a shame to say here that Meteor shower, a
    weapon skill, seems more elite as what we got. Not to mention how often it was talked about how using a slot skill would be better in most situations compared to our elites and nothing happend.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mithos.9023 said:

    The elementalist elite skills never felt worth it. What nagged at me most is that elementalist misses an aoe style elite skill. GW1 had so many cool skills and elite skill supplementing the elementalists play style of a mage archetype or back line caster. GW2 misses something like that completely.

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    Replace minor glyph of elemental with the elite version. Having two elementals feels redundant.
    Replace flame axe with FGS. Having two fiery weapons feels redundant.
    Now we have two slots for 2 fresh new elites, can be glyph/arcane/signet with different effects depending on attunement.

    I had the same idea for the pet some time ago, they are redundant, and the minor pet is probably one of the least used elementalist utility skills. When it comes to make summons permanent, I think it would give it some nice flair but at the end of the day, they are so weak that they would still have only a negligible influence on combat. Definitely not the “game changer” that an elite should be, based on the definition of arenanet, but being permanent would at least be a small improvement. As a side note, a permanent pet brings a conflict in, how would you summon a different elemental? The skill flips over to the elementals attack, if it was permanent the function to resummon would be permanent blocked.

    Fiery great sword is probably the best of what we have, so I don’t think replacing or moving it is necessary here. But still a tool mostly used to disengage, or a filler for dps rotations, doesn’t sound much elite like. Might need some tweaking but here solving the conjured problems first would probably be enough.

    But tornado is playing in another league of uselessness. Over my 6 years of playing gw2 it never seemed worth to slot this skill. A small exception was the meteor-tornado combo for some time. Not to mention it was changed so often and is still completely underused. You hardly see this skill being utilised at all, at least I can’t remember the last time I have seen someone use it. The transformation simply brings a too huge utility cost with it.
    I am not the biggest fan of the specialization elite skill too. It is a shame to say here that Meteor shower, a
    weapon skill, seems more elite as what we got. Not to mention how often it was talked about how using a slot skill would be better in most situations compared to our elites and nothing happend.

    I would use Tornado if it didn't make you move like a crippled snail. It's nice for denying revives though, but burning an elite skill for that feels pitiful.

  • I actually like Tornado concept, it is really cool. But when I use it in open world (for fun), I usually end up getting killed because it gives no protection while forcing you to stick to your foes. Underwater whirlpool seems more efficient, I'm not sure why though.

    If its slow movement is staying, I would do 2 things to improve it:

    • improve damage by at least 30%
    • reduce damage by 70% or give evade during the whole duration. How could you damage a tornado seriously ?? We need something serious here, to be able to survive the whole duration. I can't see this OP since you move so slow with almost no range attack (compared to rampage for example).
  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mithos.9023 said:

    The elementalist elite skills never felt worth it.

    You should probably specify for what gamemode you say this. FGS was very worth it in PvE until HoT and is still a good mobility tool in WvW while Glyph of elemental have always been decently usefull in open world/living world PvE. Tornado has always been in a odd spot thought where I agree that it rarely felt worth it to use it, the skill is just to situational and restrictive for it's astoundingly long cool down. Rebound is decent in all gamemode even if the CD is arguable for an active skill that's supposed to prevent your allies from being downed. As for weave self it's probably a bit to complicated to be a good elite but the "buff" and the uptime of the skill definitely make it worth it if you build around it.

    Change conjure weapons into Kits, forsaking the sharing "support" aspect, rework tornado into something that's not a god forsaken transformation and elementalist's elite become all decent.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Make Tornado a pet. Immune to projectiles. Or make it work like Janna's howling gale skill on 20s cd. Slow moving Transform that needs to be at close range, with no evade frames, for the squishiest class, is such not a good idea.

  • Mithos.9023Mithos.9023 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    You should probably specify for what gamemode you say this. FGS was very worth it in PvE until HoT and is still a good mobility tool in WvW while Glyph of elemental have always been decently usefull in open world/living world PvE. Tornado has always been in a odd spot thought where I agree that it rarely felt worth it to use it, the skill is just to situational and restrictive for it's astoundingly long cool down. Rebound is decent in all gamemode even if the CD is arguable for an active skill that's supposed to prevent your allies from being downed. As for weave self it's probably a bit to complicated to be a good elite but the "buff" and the uptime of the skill definitely make it worth it if you build around it.

    Change conjure weapons into Kits, forsaking the sharing "support" aspect, rework tornado into something that's not a god forsaken transformation and elementalist's elite become all decent.

    At least we conclude on tornado. While the transformation sounded cool on paper it simply didn’t work out, it just goes against the core design of elementalist of switching attunements. It takes away the versatility and the ability to react on the spot.

    When I think about it Trillia Midwells Tornado could bea fun mechanic for it.

    When it comes to Glyph of elemental what other purpose than pve is there to it? It has no place in pvp, wvw and even for high end pve I can only think of one single niche usage. That already says a lot about this skill. And even for open world pve it only serves to take aggro away, but beside this the elementals don’t feel the slightest bit powerful. To speak of my experiences, there was this time when I thought: When did you last use the elemental? Must be two months ago. I simply started to forget to use it as I felt no difference at all. Glyph of storms probably served me better than the elemental.

    About FGS, yes it was good. Too good, as it had to be nerved, I can remember that times as well. But that is in the past. In its current state I dare to say it doesn’t feel powerful. The ability to improve once movement is a nice utility, just like, you could say, what a utility skill does. But for an elite to be a mere utility skill, is that the level where it should be? But as said above, if the clunkiness of the conjured problem would be solved it might be decent. Might need slight tweaking but already decent.

    For weave self I see your point as I have the same opinion. The cool down reduction of attunements is the best part here and the one I use it for. The buffs are okish, but do you feel much difference in combat here? And the cc at the end is quite limited in its usage, as it has a long wind up to get there and then it is only available for a short time. Good, but still a bit clunky.

    And Rebound, feels still rushed if you ask me. As you might remember in HoT beta, we got a different skill first that was outright terrible with no applied usage to it. Rebound, an aura on 75 s Cd with a 5 s wait time is simply not good. The other effect, I felt not much influence from it from pve and wvw perspective. When you go down you either are in such a pinch that you get downed immediate again or you don’t need it at all, which brings us back to the aura on 75 s Cd. At least in wvw that was my experience as a heal elementalist with it. We either made it without it triggering or made a mistake and had us played in a spot where it could not help us getting trough either. There seemed no in between.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mithos.9023 said:
    At least we conclude on tornado. While the transformation sounded cool on paper it simply didn’t work out, it just goes against the core design of elementalist of switching attunements. It takes away the versatility and the ability to react on the spot.

    I positively hate all transform elite skill so it wasn't a big step.

    When I think about it Trillia Midwells Tornado could bea fun mechanic for it.

    When it comes to Glyph of elemental what other purpose than pve is there to it? It has no place in pvp, wvw and even for high end pve I can only think of one single niche usage. That already says a lot about this skill. And even for open world pve it only serves to take aggro away, but beside this the elementals don’t feel the slightest bit powerful. To speak of my experiences, there was this time when I thought: When did you last use the elemental? Must be two months ago. I simply started to forget to use it as I felt no difference at all. Glyph of storms probably served me better than the elemental.

    While it's not the best elite skill for zergling like any and all minion skill, this skill is usefull for any other gameplay. Glyph tend to be underrated and players like to say that there is better options. Glyph of elemental could be used in raid, Fire can provide some dps that aren't negligible, water have a huge aoe heal with condi cleanse and air can provide CC. Only earth should not be used in raid, however it can be usefull elsewhere.

    About FGS, yes it was good. Too good, as it had to be nerved, I can remember that times as well. But that is in the past. In its current state I dare to say it doesn’t feel powerful. The ability to improve once movement is a nice utility, just like, you could say, what a utility skill does. But for an elite to be a mere utility skill, is that the level where it should be? But as said above, if the clunkiness of the conjured problem would be solved it might be decent. Might need slight tweaking but already decent.

    For weave self I see your point as I have the same opinion. The cool down reduction of attunements is the best part here and the one I use it for. The buffs are okish, but do you feel much difference in combat here? And the cc at the end is quite limited in its usage, as it has a long wind up to get there and then it is only available for a short time. Good, but still a bit clunky.

    Weave self buffs mainly improve unpopular build (weaver condi builds and weaver support builds), it's not surprising that players don't like it. But still, 20% increase in condition damage on a condition build for 20s is huge, just like 50% increase in movement speed is huge for every builds and 20% boon duration/outgoing heal is huge on support build. I'd say that the issue of weave self isn't the skill itself but the fact that what it buff isn't appaeling to the players and it isn't appaeling because weaver have a strong "power" image in players' minds. In my opinion the real issue of the weaver come from dual attunment skills having exagerated cool down, poor condi duration and/or atrociously long cast times.

    And Rebound, feels still rushed if you ask me. As you might remember in HoT beta, we got a different skill first that was outright terrible with no applied usage to it. Rebound, an aura on 75 s Cd with a 5 s wait time is simply not good. The other effect, I felt not much influence from it from pve and wvw perspective. When you go down you either are in such a pinch that you get downed immediate again or you don’t need it at all, which brings us back to the aura on 75 s Cd. At least in wvw that was my experience as a heal elementalist with it. We either made it without it triggering or made a mistake and had us played in a spot where it could not help us getting trough either. There seemed no in between.

    There it all come down to "aura" being overvalued by ANet and undervalued by players. The elite give magnetic aura on demand (with a 75 CD) to your allies against the shipping zergs it's usefull. Frost aura also grant damage reduction, albeit low. I think it's CD should be more in line with 45 seconds but it's not unusable or worthless in the current state, especially for WvW.

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.