Thief, Deadeye or Daredevil??

[smashgodlight.6584]

Hello

So first of I set a goal to check all the classes in the game all the specializations in PVE so I can settle up with the ones I like in each classThis time is thief I played the core Thief from the beginning and I first wanted to check out Deadeye and then move on to the Daredevil

But to be honest I had some weird experience playing it. Also what drove me to try the deadeye was the idea of holding a sniper and let's don't forget the different videos all over YouTube showing the "one shot" build in wvw and I think in pve too, which I still don't know how it works. :cold_sweat:

Lets start with the experience1) Too squishy : Is it only me? or does it have to be that way ? I mean I run full berserker in PVE and my health its up to 11k even from lower lvl mobs I can be a 1 hit target.
2) You only have 1 target at a time which in some situations it can be pretty challenging
3) Still don't understand how to use the "Malice" . And I feel that by not knowing I deal less dmg !I really love the idea of holding a sniper but having Pistol/PIstol is it more effective than holding a rifle?? Also what is a good swamp combination to have??

To sum up ,that was my experience with the Deadeye so far, to be honest I tried it even in the beta of PoF and I was really excited but having it now I feel the only advantage point to have a deadeye is the WvW or PvP (which I don't really play) . But even with that, even by playing the Deadeye in pve ! Is there a better way to not be that squishy? Is there a build out there that I can use to deal a good amount of dmg on mobs and just not be dead for most of the time?

Also If anyone has the time I would really love to know some more things such as...1) Some tips about any build or what is the correct way to use the Deadeye in PvE or WvW2) What are considered a great combo ??3) How does Malice works ?4) How does the 1 Hit works in WvW ?5) I really love the idea of holding a sniper but having Pistol/PIstol is it more effective than holding a rifle?? Also what is a good swamp combination to have??

If you have any Links in mind that you think they can help please share them.

Thanks :)

[Molch.2078]

I am mostly playing PvE, so keep that in mind with everything i say.

1) Invigorating Precision in the Critical Hits Traitline is a great way to keep yourself alive. It heals you based on the critical damage you inflict, which is great. If you are not runing this trait, thats the first thing I recomend changing.Next, if thats not enough, get some vitality. You don't want too much, since you will loose damage, but since thieves have low health, even a bit vitality can make a big difference. The best source of vitality is mauradeurs's gear, providing Power/Precision as main stats and Vitality/Ferocity as off stats. The problem is, this kind of gear is a bit difficult to get, like most stat combinations that are not in the core game. An alternative could be Valkyre's gear, but be carefull to not loose too much Precision. You could take something like this as an inspiration: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQJAUVnkFDFOhlOB+FDUGjlxCzbAEAOAbboyythPMeGfjA-jxBBABnpEEgnAQAXCAj2f4S1fyTXAWK/AA-eHowever, the best way keeping yourself alive is not with more defensive gear, but with damage migation, like dodging, blinds and blocks.

2) https://metabattle.com/wiki/MetaBattle_Wiki <- there you will find a collection of builds used through all game modes.

3) Malice works like this: Every time you hit your market target with a skill, you generate 1 point of malice (2 points if you crit), up to 5 (or 7) points. You spend malice by using stealth attaks. They consume all your malice and increase in power for each malice spent. Rifle's stealth attack for example deals 25% more damage per malice, up to 175% extra damage.See: Malice Wiki Page link

4) https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Deadeye_-_Malicious_Oneshot_Roamer

5) Rifle is very good at dealing a lot of damage to big targets. The trait "Malificent Seven" allow you to use 3x Three Round Burst -> Stealth -> Death's Judgement in a loop. Against World bosses for example, this is great. Against multiple small mobs, it's terrible. But don't forget that you have two weapon sets. You can bring a short bow or a sword for cleave damage. I don't think using only rifle in open world PvE will give you good results.

[Misquesh.9504]

Hmmm, now that my experience, but I think that Deadeye is better than Daredevil in general. But not in all cases.

Thief is indeed squishy. Deadeye, as well as Daredevil don't really fix that. Instead, both specs add more options to evade damage.-Daredevil increases effectivness of your dodges and provides evasion on staff skills. It also greatly improves your mobility overall, so sometimes you can just run away from damage.-Deadeye grants stealth on rolls with rifle and provides a lot of vigor, so your endurance regens really fast. It also has a dodge move on rifle, that you can spam through initiative, but it's kind of clunky.

"Only 1 target at a time"-Daredevil reigns supreme in terms of cleave. A lot of staff moves and even dodges deal AoE damage.-As Deadeye, managing multiple targets can be rather difficult at times. It can even reduce your damage output because you don't generate Malice unless you hit the marked target, so if it's blocked by another enemy - too bad, I guess you gotta do something about it. Best solution to this problem that I've found is to use dual daggers. They have an AoE-like move, a ranged attack and an attack that stealths you, so it just works(praise be to Godd Howard).

"Malice"-It's kind of stupid. I love my Deadeye, but malice just doesn't work in PvE and against squishy targets.-You generate malice by damaging the marked target. Then you use your first weapon skill FROM STEALTH and all Malice points increase damage you deal. Basically, it's only really useful against Veteran and above enemies and works as a glorified warrior adrenaline bar.

Deadeye was nerfed not long after it came out of beta because PvP crowd was crying about it if I recall correctly. So I guess ArenaNet decided to share the pain with PvE players and nuked Deadeye from the orbit in all game modes.I deal with squishiness by being an absolute coward. During events, for example, I just take my rifle, kneel somewhere and while everyone get's decked I just dish out damage. Game has a lot of spots where enemies can't reach you, so I get there with my mount and snipe stuff while fellow elementalists tank damage, heh."Invigorating Precision" from "Critical Strikes" tree helps out A LOT too, I'm constantly in Fury due to "Trickery" tree and "Maleficent Seven" and crit pretty much all the time, so even if enemy manages to damage me, I can just outheal it. And if even that doesn't work, I have tricks to help me out - Withdraw, Roll for Initiative and Haste. All on shorter cooldown. If I get dead, it's usually when everyone else is dead. Or enemy reflects projectiles and I didn't notice it/Arenanet forgot to add it to enemy description. :^)

And tbh I don't know about P/P, I tried it with my build and didn't like it, as it didn't fit my playstyle. And I can't let my gems that I spent on Zafirah's Rifle skin go to waste. I use Dual Daggers as my backup weapons and it seems to work fine.

If you don't like Deadeye, I would recommend to play as Daredevil. It's very fun since it allows you to fight crowds of enemies and is much more mobile than Deadeye. Damage output is a little lower though. I don't like it personally though, probably because I'm bad at dodging. It also forces you to constantly be near your enemies(at least if you use a staff) and it brings it's own set of problems to the table.

Oh, and I'm a casual player, so I don't min/max my stuff, so I might be wrong in a lot of what I've written here, no hard feelings if you get killed by following my advice, buddy.

[Noha.3749]

Daredevil = Best mobility in game, insanely evasive and got good cleave/aoe damage.Deadeye = Best single target damage in game, after rune/sigil rework it beats even Weavers (that can hit big target multiple times with same abilities). Weaver sitting on about 38k dmg vs big targets, Deadeyes sits slightly above 40k dmg against small (and big) targets.Core thief = good in PvP/WvW with sword + dagger, it makes them great duelists with alot of in-out fighting and boonrips(+boonsteal), unblockable damage and good evasion.

Id say thieves are in a good spot right now, being best at both damage in PvE (deadeye), Best mobility ingame (Daredevil) and are good duelists with either build (core probably stronger in straight up duels)

[windbliss.3158]

As far as I would focus: Stock thief just doesn't really have the "oomph" that it normally had. You can do stock thief if you're using something that maximises poisons and bleeds (as well as the venom skills), but it's often better if you use something else.

As pointed out, Deadeye is more appropriate for "vs. single target" damage, esp. taking down bigger targets amidst smaller ones. The rifle's skills more or less emphasizes that. The mark/malice system further stresses this.

Daredevil, on the other hand, is better for "small groups" damage, and the staff is surprisngly versatile. If Deadeye is "at range and knocking them down", Daredevil is the "in your face" version of it. I use Trickery for both Deadeye and Daredevil, only for the extra initiative and the options in regard to my style of play. For Daredevil specifically, I focus on Steal allowing a momentary daze.

Having either Deadeye or Daredevil matters in what situations you'll be in. If you're roaming open world and PvE, then Daredevil might be more suited for the options. If you are focusing down big targets or running areas where champs, bounties and world bosses are your main concern, Deadeye shines more.

Personally, for melee option when I'm not using rifle as Deadeye: I use sword/pistol combo. You can get in with 2, slash silly (and possibly interrupt) with 3, then 2 again if you need to clear some condi. You can run D/D if that's more your style. For Daredevil, my range option is always dual pistol. Shortbow feels a bit too clunky fo rme and the movement options are covered by staff anyway (Staff 5 is a leap targeter, opposed to SBow 5 which is a ground targeter).

[CharterforGw.3149]

If you want to endlessly evade, go for daredevil, double Dagger/dagger(yes 4 daggers in total) use the sigils to restore energy. that way you can keep using blossom and dodge's almost endlessly. great against burst classes, they miss everything during their burst.

[Steve The Cynic.3217]

@"Misquesh.9504" said:-Daredevil reigns supreme in terms of cleave. A lot of staff moves and even dodges deal AoE damage.

Careful of the difference between cleave (multi-target weapon-hit melee damage) and point-blank AoE (zone damage centred on the wielder).

Daredevil Staff skills are cleaves, and therefore don't work against "smoked" Smokescales. The special Daredevil evade modes are PBAoE, and therefore work in conditions that prevent weapon hits from working.

[vermouth.3478]

Just want to share my experience playing thief and I only play it casually (not for fractal or raid). I play thief mainly for exploring the PvE world. I usually use deadeye with dagger/pistol because #3 teleport you to the enemy and gives blinds (also unblockable) then just spam 1 or 2; 5 to provide more blinds when you are surrounded by many adds. Also, I trait Trickery 3 - 1 -2 and Deadeye - 2 -3 -2 so whenever I use the mark, I receive at least 5 boons (fury, might, swiftness, quickness, and vigor), rip the boons from enemy (if they have one), dazes the enemy, and enjoy extra damage from premeditation so it's so easy to quickly kill the mobs and use the mark again on the next enemy (the mark is refreshed every time you kill the marked enemy). Malice is useful for longer fight against veteran enemy or higher. When there is any boss event with other player, I tend to switch to rifle and use the mark and utilise my stealth skills as that's how you get bonus damage from generated malices. When I use my rifle, I change my deadeye skills to 1 - 1 - 1 or 1 -3 -1 if you are willing to bring more stealth skills. If you just want to farm without bothering to kill the enemy (for example: winterberry farming in LS3), deadeye is also great because with silent scope you get stealth every time you dodge (you need to equip rifle tho) and trait Shadow arts 2 -2- 2 for extra stealth time, reduced recharge time for deception skills (that provides more stealth), and faster movement when you are in stealth. It's also useful when you want to skip certain dungeon (like CM and TA), use short bow instead for mobility and blast finisher.

[pcgamefreak.5208]

Quote

Lets start with the experience1) Too squishy : Is it only me? or does it have to be that way ? I mean I run full berserker in PVE and my health its up to 11k even from lower lvl mobs I can be a 1 hit target.
2) You only have 1 target at a time which in some situations it can be pretty challenging
3) Still don't understand how to use the "Malice" . And I feel that by not knowing I deal less dmg !I really love the idea of holding a sniper but having Pistol/PIstol is it more effective than holding a rifle?? Also what is a good swamp combination to have??

 

 

That statement is from a normal player, playing the game on a normal account/character.  You're right....  The experience is bad when you're normal.

 

What I want to know is....  Who are these players/accounts that run thief and can......

1 - go invisible at anytime without cool downs

2 - stay invisible for as long as they want without reveal

3 - can shield their health like a Scourge casting shroud

4 - can go immune to all damage for like 10 seconds

5 - can do way more shadow-steps than possible

6 - can full heal at will when (and if) health gets low

7 - can take you out with 1-3 hits even with lots of vit and toughness

8 - can go into an evade mode and evade everything like they do in immunity mode

 

I seen a single thief kill 30+ players because of the above abilites.  I watched it all go down from a hill in WvW.  I even thought about helping out with the theif but after he quickly killed of half the army trying to take him, I thought to myself....  No point in me giving that cheater another body.

 

The worst part about it is.....  These players actually think they're good.  Hell, if I was riding high off cheats like that, I would kill out both enemy teams single handed.

 

I have a thief and have tried both DareDevil and DeadEye Meta builds and know the above abilities can not be achieved by normal means.  Hell, I seen a normal thief go invisible today in WvW and I actually saw the sancuary Icon and area they hide in when they go invisible.  He got killed too because he wasn't a super cheater thief.

 

That was strange to me because these cheater thieves....  You don't see sancuary when they cast it (if they do)....  In fact, you don't see anything, they just vanish and only appear for a short period of time to toss daggers for major damage and then vanish off again.  I've seen these cheater thieves run in the middle of a zerg and jump up and down and players didn't even attack....  I've seen zergs just ignore the thief because they know that player is one of the cheater thieves who can kill entire zergs.

 

No class in the game can be that bold normally!

 

It's completely unfair to those who play fair under normal accounts/characters.  I run on the worst class in the game...the condi-necro and I still beat players one on one and even give groups of players a hard time tying to down me.  Necros have zero mobility...  We can't full hit.... We can't immune to all damage because going into shroud is not an immunity.  We can't break away from stuns or roots very well or at all most of the time.  Our life force doesn't even increase while out of combat so if we fight off one player and get attack by another right after, you're doomed if your life force is low.  Our DOT damage is a joke and most players just laught at it and brush if off like a tickle.

 

After all these years and world of warcraft, lotro, age of conan, you name it.......

 

Developers are still doing stupid things that make classes unbalanced in PvP and one of the many things did wrong in GW2 is all the bullet-proofing classes do.  Another is super high long ranged damage....because those players don't even have to get close.  Got a ranger?  Just tangle and 40k rapid fire, victory!

 

Only classes that have similar bullet-proofing can fight each other better but class that don't reall have that stuff....like the Necro....   You gotta really work for your wins and if you run into a cheater...don't even sweat the loss because you can't beat players running around in god/developer mode and it's not hard to notice them because they really will be GOD when you face them.   Zero damage....full heals....can't be stunned, rooted, etc....10k+ hits....  The WORKS!

 

There's not food or armor set in game that can deliver that kind of output.  It's all garbage.....

 

 

 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Disregard~

Edited December 10, 2021 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Rogue.8235]

21 hours ago, Horace.3184 said:

What I want to know is....  Who are these players/accounts that run thief and can......

1 - go invisible at anytime without cool downs

2 - stay invisible for as long as they want without reveal

3 - can shield their health like a Scourge casting shroud

4 - can go immune to all damage for like 10 seconds

5 - can do way more shadow-steps than possible

6 - can full heal at will when (and if) health gets low

7 - can take you out with 1-3 hits even with lots of vit and toughness

8 - can go into an evade mode and evade everything like they do in immunity mode

 

Ah, that's the Daredeaddevileye build with 5 trait lines and 7 utility skills.  Only unlock able if you give the thief trainer 9k gold.

 

 

Anyways, rifle deadeye has a unique playstyle in this game.  Your positioning and pre-meditated angle of attackmust be flawless.  Essentially, you need to position so that you can quickly eliminate a target and have room to reposition.  Repositioning can be done with stealth or shadowsteps, depending on what skills you bring.  

Deadeye does not have that many stealth skills.  However, timely use of stealth will make it seem like you can stealth at any time.  If you stealth only when advantageous and do not spam it, you don't need much stealth.

You can have stealth or evade, not reliable amounts of both.  

 You cannot full heal whenever you want, but you can time when to heal when it is most advantageous and frusterating for your opponent.  

Deadeye is extremely reliant on terrain control and usage.  Keep your positioning superior to the enemy and use the terrain to your advantage at all times.  

You cannot just shadowstep at any time if you bring stealth or evade.  

 

I can actually go into detail on how to effectively play the thief profession and its elite specializations if you have an actual willingness to learn.  Based on the above quoted post, this is just a complaint in disguise....

 

[Gibson.4036]

I’ve had a lot of fun in PVE with d/p deadeye. As long as you’re fighting things that can be blinded you have a lot of survivability. Game play involves a lot of shadowstepping around and knifing down marked targets, reapplying mark after each enemy dies. Feels very shadowstep assassin.

[HotDelirium.7984]

Don't overlook Malice, it is an important bonus for Deadeye:

-One point is generated on a marked target per hit with a skill that costs initiative and +1 if its a critical hit.

-It disappears when you change marked targets or it dies. 

-All current points are used up on your next stealth attack. 

-If you steal when you have at least 5 malice you will go into stealth for free.

-Read the wiki on malicious stealth attacks per weapon. I think overall it just adds the ability to do more dmg in different ways.

-A super basic rotation to get your used to it (later factoring in sigil, rune, utilities and traits) would be 1)Mark target 2)Spam appropriate initiative skills till you get five malice 3) Steal 4)Stealth attack or reposition.

Happy hunting ❤️

[Androx.8572]

Hahahaa , there is no cheat. You just have not played thief enough.
*laughs in the shadows*