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Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged]


Lonami.2987

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@"STIHL.2489" said:No, I read that perfectly.. now maybe you might want to read your own words.. and then think "Hey, what about people that don't already belong to a clique of raiders" .. hum they would be exactly like you were.. but with no returning friendsNow hard to see the reality.. when you open your own eyes.But feel free to keep the blinders on.. my point is done with you.

Edit:Maybe it's the language barrier since I'm not a native english speaker. I'll try it again: Raids are the content that are keeping me playing the game. Without raids I wouldn't be here and I wouldn't be spending any amount of money. Even with friends calling me: "Hey, there's a beetle out now.", I would have logged in, had a look and would log out after 1-2 hours because it's not my content. Same with: "Hey, there are roller beetle races.". I would have logged in, had a look but again it wouldn't keep me playing.Fractals & raids on the other hand are content I play regularly which means I'm logged into the game on a daily basis. Additionally I could make some friends connected via raiding and those also keep me logging in because we share the same interests: Raids & fractals.I repeat: An open world guild would not satisfy my interests since I won't follow a call: "Can you help me at Svanir Shaman." or "Hey folks, we need people for Tequatl." That would be content that bores me to hell and there's no fun in playing it. At best I would sit in their discord and play different games which would be still no advantage for GW2 or Anet since they won't see any cent of my money.

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Has this thread even been on topic for the past 30-40 posts? Considering it devolved into a (somewhat hilarious) "Raids are terrible" and was on its way down the Forum history until STIHL necro'd it to continue where he left off months ago even after admitting that he doesn't even play anymore. :thonk:

Edit: And I stand with what I said even if you cannot deal with it, STIHL. I cannot take you seriously if you think Vinceman (and others) sticking with a multiplayer game because of the multiplayer aspects is terrible but please, continue, report this post, too.

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People can see the truth.. and not accept it.

But I stand by what I said, if Raids were profitable standalone, games like Wildstar would not have shut down. As I said before they are a dinosaur of the past, something that should have gone away with Kill Stealing, and Ninja Looting, and are about as welcome in modern MMO's as either of those things.

Raids are simply not good content, they do not build community, they do not foster a better gaming community, they divide the game into raiders and non-raiders, and this is simply not a good thing for an MMO.

They might work if they were made more inclusive like Fractals, bit, in their current set up, they will not profit this game, not in any means.

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@Vinceman.4572 said:

@"STIHL.2489" said:No, I read that perfectly.. now maybe you might want to read your own words.. and then think "Hey, what about people that don't already belong to a clique of raiders" .. hum they would be exactly like you were.. but with no
returning friends
Now hard to see the reality.. when you open your own eyes.But feel free to keep the blinders on.. my point is done with you.

Edit:Maybe it's the language barrier since I'm not a native english speaker. I'll try it again: Raids are the content that are keeping me playing the game. Without raids I wouldn't be here and I wouldn't be spending any amount of money.

Again, let me break this down for you. You left after raids came out, Raids had been a part of this game when you chose to leave, and you chose to leave because you could not make progress doing raids.

You did not go out and join a Raid training guild (Which were already available by the end of the first month Raids went live, if not sooner, so you left after they were available)You did not find a new static group to run with because you loved the content and wanted to do it.You did not try to Pug your way into getting good at raids, or even start your own LFM's.

In short you did none of the things that raiders tell other people to do to get into raids.

You Left the game.

As Irony would have it.. you left because you could not do raids.

Well, I am sure you were not alone in that, but I am going to wager there were a lot more people that didn't have a circle of friends to be there for them to return to. Truth is, if your friends had not come back to work with you and walk with you though raids you never would have come back, , and by your own admission not being able to do raids would have been the very reason why you left.

The Irony will never escape me.

You are living proof they should have put in an easy mode, for all he players like you that want to do raids, but unlike you, don't have an existing group of friends to walk them through the content.

When you wonder if people have left over not being able to do raids.. well.. you left.

Great discussion. Thanks for being the living embodiment of my point and stand, even if you will never admit it.

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@mortrialus.3062 said:No one called mount skins P2W. They were called out for being too similar to lootboxes, which have been a hot topic since Overwatch's influence exploded them into more and more games; manipulative RNG pachinko machines. Especially since the specter of spending money on the gem store wanting a specific mount skin, and walking away without wanted felt like it went against everything the gem store stood for by being so much more fair than other F2P games.

This is so wrong it;s not even funny.. Not only did they call the Mount Skins P2W, you make it seem like this game didn't have BLC in the game since the start (Which are directly loot boxes, and that is just stating the obvious), Black Lion Weapon Skins, anyone? Not to mention that a vast number of other purely cosmetic stuff in the store is also sold in RNG Loot Box Style, which have been a staple since the Start like Dye Packs, Minis, etc. So, again the ridiculousness of Mount Gate, will never be lost on me, because mount skins were just like the other existing RNG of the Store... and yes.. they called it P2W, I think I i have seen them still cal it P2W.

I laughed myself to the high heavens over that, the absurdity of it was hilarious, I still can't help but to laugh now.

Just like now, people thinking that Raids would self fund when another of NcSofts games, Wildstar, which was marketed as a Hardcore raid game, just shut down. Truth is, hard content does not sell, that is why Riaders in this game need casuals to fund their content.

Honestly, I think players would rather just buy more of the content they want to play, then deal with buying cosmetics and seeing their money go into developing content they will never touch and might even hate.

In fact if they took this approach, WvW might get the Dev Time is so desperately needs.

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@STIHL.2489 said:

@"mortrialus.3062" said:No one called mount skins P2W. They were called out for being too similar to lootboxes, which have been a hot topic since Overwatch's influence exploded them into more and more games; manipulative RNG pachinko machines. Especially since the specter of spending money on the gem store wanting a specific mount skin, and walking away without wanted felt like it went against everything the gem store stood for by being so much more fair than other F2P games.

This is so wrong it;s not even funny.. Not only did they call the Mount Skins P2W, you make it seem like this game didn't have BLC in the game since the start (Which are directly loot boxes, and that is just stating the obvious), Black Lion Weapon Skins, anyone? Not to mention that a vast number of other purely cosmetic stuff in the store is also sold in RNG Loot Box Style, which have been a staple since the Start like Dye Packs, Minis, etc. So, again the ridiculousness of Mount Gate, will never be lost on me, because mount skins were just like the other existing RNG of the Store... and yes.. they called it P2W, I think I i have seen them still cal it P2W.

Find someone calling the mount packs pay 2 win and post it. No one called it that. Black Lion Chests get a bit of a pass because for the bulk of the game you could literally farm a keys at a rate of one key every ten minutes and you can still farm them at a similar rate today. You could even farm them at a slower rate through world completion. Players can also skip the gem store and just buy the exact mini and dye, black lion weapon they want off the Trade Post from other players. If you wanted a specific mount from the mount, you had no choice but to play the RNG mount adoption licences.

No one called them pay 2 win. That literally doesn't make any sense. So pics or it didn't happen.

I laughed myself to the high heavens over that, the absurdity of it was hilarious, I still can't help but to laugh now.

Just like now, people thinking that Raids would self fund when another of NcSofts games, Wildstar, which was marketed as a Hardcore raid game, just shut down. Truth is, hard content does not sell, that is why Riaders in this game need casuals to fund their content.It's a good things GW2 doesn't market itself as a hard core game, and instead as a game with a wide variety of content that appeals to a wide variety of people from hard core achievement hunters, speed, runners, to casuals who only have two hours a week to play.

Honestly, I think players would rather just buy more of the content they want to play, then deal with buying cosmetics and seeing their money go into developing content they will never touch and might even hate.

In fact if they took this approach, WvW might get the Dev Time is so desperately needs.

. Because heres' the thing no one has to deal with buying cosmetics and seeing their money go into developing content they will never touch. No one has to buy anything they don't want to except the one time expansion pack purchases. Even the gem store can be completely circumvented with converting gold into gems.

Changing the game into one that never tells them they have to pay money unless they really want that shiny on the gem store and don't feel like converting gold into gems to get it, into one that's DEMANDING them to pay money ever step they take in the game and every single time something new is ever added would kill the game. Straight up kill the entire game. It would be a debacle and Anet would be the new EA or Activision as the perfect example of a game company trying to wring every single penny out of it's player base, as well as a promise breaker.

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@STIHL.2489 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:No one called mount skins P2W. They were called out for being too similar to lootboxes, which have been a hot topic since Overwatch's influence exploded them into more and more games; manipulative RNG pachinko machines. Especially since the specter of spending money on the gem store wanting a specific mount skin, and walking away without wanted felt like it went against everything the gem store stood for by being so much more fair than other F2P games.

This is so wrong it;s not even funny.. Not only did they call the Mount Skins P2W, you make it seem like this game didn't have BLC in the game since the start (Which are directly loot boxes, and that is just stating the obvious), Black Lion Weapon Skins, anyone? Not to mention that a vast number of other purely cosmetic stuff in the store is also sold in RNG Loot Box Style, which have been a staple since the Start like Dye Packs, Minis, etc. So, again the ridiculousness of Mount Gate, will never be lost on me, because mount skins were just like the other existing RNG of the Store... and yes.. they called it P2W, I think I i have seen them still cal it P2W.

For some one asking others to refrain from lying often, the amount of stretching you do here to fit your agenda is insane.

Mount skins were absolutely NOT called pay to win. There is/was no winning. You are intentionally mixing loot boxes and the disdain over this kind of content implementation with pay to win, when those are 2 completely different issues even if they occasionally go hand in hand.

The implementation of mounts debacle was over pure rng acquisition. NOT pay to win. There is no winning with cosmetics. This obviously died down with the changes to the mount licenses and the ability to both reduce the amount of rng from smaller sets as well as the possibility to acquire specific mount skins for a premium.

Maybe instead of calling people out, get your facts straitened out yourself first and stop stretching facts to an extent which would make the word liar seem like an understatement.

@STIHL.2489 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:Just like now, people thinking that Raids would self fund when another of NcSofts games, Wildstar, which was marketed as a Hardcore raid game, just shut down. Truth is, hard content does not sell, that is why Riaders in this game need casuals to fund their content.

Just as how WoW, a by now super casual game is mass losing players because they over did the casual gear acquisition. My reference ignores just as many side and more important factors as your Wildstar analogy. Wildstar was plagued with a multitude of problems beside difficult raid content

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@"STIHL.2489" said:Just like now, people thinking that Raids would self fund when another of NcSofts games, Wildstar, which was marketed as a Hardcore raid game, just shut down. Truth is, hard content does not sell, that is why Riaders in this game need casuals to fund their content.

For example, Wildstar had some of the best housing system in an mmorpg. I guess that so much asked for casual feature didn't save the game :(Wildstar marketed as a hardcore raid game? Care to provide some advertisement for Wildstar were they ACTUALLY state that? Because Wildstar had housing, casual exploration with different types of jobs, a "unique" (it failed) large scale pvp system between guilds and so much more than hardcore raids.

I suggest you start posting some evidence of your claims (ANY claims you make, not only about Wildstar, including the P2W mounts), otherwise, they are just empty words without any meaning.

Also, this discussion about Wildstar and how bad raids are for GW2 has been done multiple times over the 104 pages of this thread, you keep recycling the same arguments over and over as if you have nothing better to do. But of course part of the blame is on those responding to those same arguments while you've never posted anything proving them.

edit: Unless your next post includes lots of links to verify your claims I will personally not respond to your posts because it's meaningless recycling at this point. If anyone else wants to waste their time they are free to do so.

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As someone who plays support, and doesn't want to have to play support meta to do content I'd really appreciate an easy mode? It's one thing If I learn on my own and come to my own conclusion that I want to do x build or whatever, but my main problem with raiding as is, is that I really don't have any freedom in what I can play as support. As is, even if I am confident in what I'm bringing to a group, I would never be accepted into a raiding team with what I play. At least with a lower difficulty mode, that would hopefully ease up a bit? (Or a the very least they'd be easier to organize as someone who's never raided.)

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@Yggdrasiln.5240 said:As someone who plays support, and doesn't want to have to play support meta to do content I'd really appreciate an easy mode? It's one thing If I learn on my own and come to my own conclusion that I want to do x build or whatever, but my main problem with raiding as is, is that I really don't have any freedom in what I can play as support. As is, even if I am confident in what I'm bringing to a group, I would never be accepted into a raiding team with what I play. At least with a lower difficulty mode, that would hopefully ease up a bit? (Or a the very least they'd be easier to organize as someone who's never raided.)

What support do you want to play?My static got a heal firebrand/tank on most bosses, were he dont tank he still heal, aegis block and boons etcScourge healer can be nice on bosses witch aint a dps check like sloth and matthias for example.Heavy healers like revenant and engis elites arent really needed when you get better at the fights becouse people are supposed to get hit very rarely and if they get hit the low healing from druid and chrono should be enough to heal them back up.

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@Linken.6345 said:

@Yggdrasiln.5240 said:As someone who plays support, and doesn't want to have to play support meta to do content I'd really appreciate an easy mode? It's one thing If I learn on my own and come to my own conclusion that I want to do x build or whatever, but my main problem with raiding as is, is that I really don't have any freedom in what I can play as support. As is, even if I am confident in what I'm bringing to a group, I would never be accepted into a raiding team with what I play. At least with a lower difficulty mode, that would hopefully ease up a bit? (Or a the very least they'd be easier to organize as someone who's never raided.)

What support do you want to play?My static got a heal firebrand/tank on most bosses, were he dont tank he still heal, aegis block and boons etcScourge healer can be nice on bosses witch aint a dps check like sloth and matthias for example.Heavy healers like revenant and engis elites arent really needed when you get better at the fights becouse people are supposed to get hit very rarely and if they get hit the low healing from druid and chrono should be enough to heal them back up.

I main a heal firebrand/tank, but I've still found folks to be really, really dismissive or just rude. Last time I was trying to get into raiding I only had to mention what I was playing for guilds to ghost me. :expressionless:

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@Yggdrasiln.5240 said:I main a heal firebrand/tank, but I've still found folks to be really, really dismissive or just rude. Last time I was trying to get into raiding I only had to mention what I was playing for guilds to ghost me. :expressionless:

If they made an easy mode as proposed by most people on this thread (T1 fractal difficulty, doable by any kind of team) then you wouldn't need to play a support role anymore as only DPS roles would be used like the rest of the game.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

If they made an easy mode as proposed by most people on this thread (T1 fractal difficulty, doable by any kind of team) then you wouldn't need to play a support role anymore as only DPS roles would be used like the rest of the game.

That probably would be the majority of runs, I don't disagree with you on that. However an easy mode still opens up the opportunity by making raiding more accessible in general. It may still be far from ideal, but it's at least something, and from there the hope is that more people are learning and able to do higher difficulty. I don't think giving raiding a bit of wiggle room is a bad idea? I don't think there's any easy solution, but it's worth looking for one.

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@"Yggdrasiln.5240" said:I don't think giving raiding a bit of wiggle room is a bad idea?

The rest of the thread disagrees which why it exists. You can find why it's a bad idea if you read some of the other pages but the most important reason I guess is developer resources required to plan and implement multiple difficulty settings. It was even given by developers as a reason so it must be important, they should know better. When it comes on what to cut in order to implement more difficulty modes for Raids is when things get hazy. And no, reducing the, already at a snail pace, Raid schedule is not an option.

Another reason, also given by the developers themselves, is that they want Raids to be the ultimate challenge. If they add easier modes, they won't be the ultimate challenge anymore. It's already stretching the limits of "ultimate challenge" since CM Fractals exist.

Further reason for not implementing one an easy mode is because it would split the community, nobody likes splitting communities. This is yet another argument given by the developers on why CM versions of Raids aren't repeatable. They are afraid it would cause segregation, similar reason why lower difficulty versions shouldn't be implemented either.

Another reason is that an easy mode is worthless for training/learning purposes, it's like saying T1 Nightmare "trains" you for CM Nightmare (that's the difficulty difference between our current Raids and the most common easy mode proposal around here) You are naive if you think anyone would learn from this and then move on the higher difficulty, the gap would still be gigantic. It doesn't happen in Fractals, even though there are 5 difficulty settings, it won't happen in Raids.

Finally there are reasons about exclusive rewards tied behind content. An easy mode giving out Legendary Armor or other achievements, or not. This is another huge part of the discussion over the 100 pages, although recently many on the side of an easy mode have accepted the idea of such a potential mode not giving access to the highest Raid rewards.

The rest of the thread is repeating the above over and over in circles. I'm only giving you the reasons why implementing such a change is a bad idea, if you want further details read the rest of the thread, this is only a summary and honestly I don't want to go over all that again for the 20th time, especially with certain posters.

PS: Did I miss anything?

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@Lonami.2987 said:This is a heated topic, but let's have a serious discussion about it.


Raids are not profitable for ArenaNet

Let me say this clearly: I do raid, and I love challenging content, but I have many friends who are utter noobs, and can't learn to raid with what we have now. They simply can't. Don't start lecturing me about training groups and whatever. They can't.

Then they don't deserve raiding.

No one has entitlement to any game mode ever, specially hardcore players, who are pretty much those contributing the less to the game's finances, since they already have a lot of gold and convert it to gems instead of using real money. If we went by a simple metric of what is good for this game, raids are pretty much at the bottom. ArenaNet would make more money by just releasing open world zergfest content, than with raids. Raids are a special snowflake, and that's why it can't hold on forever, not like this.

Hell, if tomorrow they scrapped raiding altogether, and started doing dungeons again, you think the happy people wouldn't outnumber the angry people? Think about it.

Raids are neither viable nor profitable being exclusive content. We need more raiders.


So that's it. Feel free to vote in the poll, and whatever your opinion is, please express it civilly below.

I voted and I quoted to discuss some points about this game and why it's special to the people who've been playing it long.

If anyone remembers, this game was WITHOUT raids for a long time.

Because of this, this MMO was the casual MMO.

Compared to more hardcore MMOs, this game was easy to get into with its welcoming atmosphere.

It was non-competitive and you could be as flexible as you want with your builds because you weren't going after a RAID wing and no one would tell you otherwise.

The introduction of raids changed the game along with the expansions.

Many of us in the community glossed over raids because we didn't start playing this game because of raids at all.It was the casual structure that kept us and continues to keep us, not raids.

However, it brought in more competitive aspects that brought a whole new brand of MMOer to this game, the competitive raider.

You competitive raiders deserve one another. Let there be a HARD mode for you all.

Give the rest of us a ZERG mode (not easy). Same rules just lots more people.

The reason why the majority of this game's content is enjoyable is the fact that many can partake. Remember, this game was originally structured on inclusiveness and NOT exclusivity.

But for you minority hardcore raiders, be thankful for those of us that fund this game out of our pockets because we really don't make our lives here and just want to enjoy it as a casual game on the side.

I grind and train enough in real life to build my career into what I want it to be; I can't do both in-game and rl.

If you grind and train here to be the best you can be at raids, go for it. Just remember the game isn't centered around raids and us casuals are funding the game.

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@Lonami.2987 said:This is a heated topic, but let's have a serious discussion about it.


Raids are not profitable for ArenaNet

Let me say this clearly: I do raid, and I love challenging content, but I have many friends who are utter noobs, and can't learn to raid with what we have now. They simply can't. Don't start lecturing me about training groups and whatever. They can't.

Then they don't deserve raiding.

No one has entitlement to any game mode ever, specially hardcore players, who are pretty much those contributing the less to the game's finances, since they already have a lot of gold and convert it to gems instead of using real money. If we went by a simple metric of what is good for this game, raids are pretty much at the bottom. ArenaNet would make more money by just releasing open world zergfest content, than with raids. Raids are a special snowflake, and that's why it can't hold on forever, not like this.

Hell, if tomorrow they scrapped raiding altogether, and started doing dungeons again, you think the happy people wouldn't outnumber the angry people? Think about it.

Raids are neither viable nor profitable being exclusive content. We need more raiders.

Also this is a hell of a claim to throw out there without any evidence whatsoever. I know that I play the game at an almost daily level, make tons of gold in game, and am also a complete whale when it comes to the cash shop. I know others who are as well. Most video game cash shops tend to have overall few people making purchases, and a small contingent making tons and tons of purchases.

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@XYLO.7031 said:

@Lonami.2987 said:This is a heated topic, but let's have a serious discussion about it.

Raids are not profitable for ArenaNet

Let me say this clearly: I do raid, and I love challenging content, but I have many friends who are utter noobs, and can't learn to raid with what we have now. They simply can't. Don't start lecturing me about training groups and whatever. They can't.

Then they don't deserve raiding.

No one has entitlement to any game mode ever, specially hardcore players, who are pretty much those contributing the less to the game's finances, since they already have a lot of gold and convert it to gems instead of using real money. If we went by a simple metric of what is good for
this game
, raids are pretty much at the bottom. ArenaNet would make more money by just releasing open world zergfest content, than with raids. Raids are a special snowflake, and that's why it can't hold on forever, not like this.

Hell, if tomorrow they scrapped raiding altogether, and started doing dungeons again, you think the happy people wouldn't outnumber the angry people? Think about it.

Raids are neither viable nor profitable being exclusive content. We need more raiders.

So that's it. Feel free to vote in the poll, and whatever your opinion is, please express it civilly below.

I voted and I quoted to discuss some points about this game and why it's special to the people who've been playing it long.

If anyone remembers, this game was WITHOUT raids for a long time.

Because of this, this MMO was the casual MMO.

Compared to more hardcore MMOs, this game was easy to get into with its welcoming atmosphere.

It was non-competitive and you could be as flexible as you want with your builds because you weren't going after a RAID wing and no one would tell you otherwise.

The introduction of raids changed the game along with the expansions.

Many of us in the community glossed over raids because we didn't start playing this game because of raids at all.It was the casual structure that kept us and continues to keep us, not raids.

However, it brought in more competitive aspects that brought a whole new brand of MMOer to this game, the competitive raider.

You competitive raiders deserve one another. Let there be a HARD mode for you all.

Give the rest of us a ZERG mode (not easy). Same rules just lots more people.

The reason why the majority of this game's content is enjoyable is the fact that many can partake. Remember, this game was originally structured on inclusiveness and NOT exclusivity.

But for you minority hardcore raiders, be thankful for those of us that fund this game out of our pockets because we really don't make our lives here and just want to enjoy it as a casual game on the side.

I grind and train enough in real life to build my career into what I want it to be; I can't do both in-game and rl.

If you grind and train here to be the best you can be at raids, go for it. Just remember the game isn't centered around raids and us casuals are funding the game.

Not sure who this is aimed at?

Last time I checked, the vast developer resources go to Living World and open world content. Not sure 2 fractals and 1 raid per year even compare to the other content released (maybe against spvp and wvw).

Are you arguing you want legendary armor from open world content? Because as of right now there is almost no way for Arenanet to devote more resources to open world content. It's already almost the only thing they develop, next to monetization items for the BLTC or reworking old content.

That said, there is literally free legendary armor from spvp and wvw. Only takes some time and 0 skill.

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@XYLO.7031 said:However, it brought in more competitive aspects that brought a whole new brand of MMOer to this game, the competitive raider.

Most of the raiders have already been in the game before raids. The more competitive players ran dungeons & fractals either in speed clear guilds or at least in zerker gear. It was a wish of a non-negligible part of the community to get new challenging content because explorable paths in dungeons were meant to be hard but they failed to be that kind of content.It's even simple to recognise that most of the raiders are longterm players since most of the squads have a majority of raiders with 15k AP or more. A number you do not easily achieve by getting into the game only for raiding.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"STIHL.2489" said:Just like now, people thinking that Raids would self fund when another of NcSofts games, Wildstar, which was marketed as a Hardcore raid game, just shut down. Truth is, hard content does not sell, that is why Riaders in this game need casuals to fund their content.

For example, Wildstar had some of the best housing system in an mmorpg. I guess that so much asked for casual feature didn't save the game :(

Nope.. not at all. Giving a bunch of pointless grind content o players that you treat like second class citizens while you dolt upon your raiders the best stuff ever, is not going to endear casuals to your game.

This is a lesson GW2 should pay attention to as well, when it thinks it's putting out "Casual" content.

Wildstar marketed as a hardcore raid game? Care to provide some advertisement for Wildstar were they ACTUALLY state that?

.

I hope my My point is made... but even if I posted other links, I going to guess you will just stick you head in the sand and ignore all that.. because it does not agree with what you want to be true.

I can't find too many links.. because you know.. the game that was marketed as Hardcore died.. so they took down their own links. But you know.. it was common knowledge that it was a hardcore's game.

The fact that you are even questioning this is laughable.

And the fact that you think a "House" is casual.. is insulting. I mean like, really, dude, can you show you have no idea what a casual even is when you say things like "Oh it has housing it must be for casuals" like What.. really.. hardcore players don't use housing? Painfully laughable.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:No one called mount skins P2W. They were called out for being too similar to lootboxes, which have been a hot topic since Overwatch's influence exploded them into more and more games; manipulative RNG pachinko machines. Especially since the specter of spending money on the gem store wanting a specific mount skin, and walking away without wanted felt like it went against everything the gem store stood for by being so much more fair than other F2P games.

This is so wrong it;s not even funny.. Not only did they call the Mount Skins P2W, you make it seem like this game didn't have BLC in the game since the start (Which are directly loot boxes, and that is just stating the obvious), Black Lion Weapon Skins, anyone? Not to mention that a vast number of other purely cosmetic stuff in the store is also sold in RNG Loot Box Style, which have been a staple since the Start like Dye Packs, Minis, etc. So, again the ridiculousness of Mount Gate, will never be lost on me, because mount skins were just like the other existing RNG of the Store... and yes.. they called it P2W, I think I i have seen them still cal it P2W.

For some one asking others to refrain from lying often, the amount of stretching you do here to fit your agenda is insane.

Mount skins were absolutely NOT called pay to win.

Again.. you seem to forget, that I was there, yes they were, and for quite some time after as well. Reilly showed me how worthless the like P2W had become. in fact Mount gate killed any P2W cries for me.

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@STIHL.2489 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:No one called mount skins P2W. They were called out for being too similar to lootboxes, which have been a hot topic since Overwatch's influence exploded them into more and more games; manipulative RNG pachinko machines. Especially since the specter of spending money on the gem store wanting a specific mount skin, and walking away without wanted felt like it went against everything the gem store stood for by being so much more fair than other F2P games.

This is so wrong it;s not even funny.. Not only did they call the Mount Skins P2W, you make it seem like this game didn't have BLC in the game since the start (Which are directly loot boxes, and that is just stating the obvious), Black Lion Weapon Skins, anyone? Not to mention that a vast number of other purely cosmetic stuff in the store is also sold in RNG Loot Box Style, which have been a staple since the Start like Dye Packs, Minis, etc. So, again the ridiculousness of Mount Gate, will never be lost on me, because mount skins were just like the other existing RNG of the Store... and yes.. they called it P2W, I think I i have seen them still cal it P2W.

For some one asking others to refrain from lying often, the amount of stretching you do here to fit your agenda is insane.

Mount skins were absolutely NOT called pay to win.

Again.. you seem to forget, that I was there, yes they were, and for quite some time after as well. Reilly showed me how worthless the like P2W had become. in fact Mount gate killed any P2W cries for me.

Pics or it didn't happen

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Mostly I think an easy mode would be fine to bring more enjoyment to the community due to the people who either don't have time to raid, can't learn to raid, or don't have the skills to raid. I understand that bringing the elite endgame content to the majority of the player base has issues like LFR on WoW, but I don't see it as much of an issue under a few conditions. The conditions that should be met to consider doing an easy mode and hard mode is that:

  1. Hard mode has to have very lucrative and exclusive rewards that easy mode can never and will never match in order for the elite player base to still feel rewarded in doing this content
  2. Easy mode has to be challenging enough that it makes strategy important to completion, much like how raids are now but with a removal of some mechanics or bosses altogether that make it easier to complete than hard mode.
  3. Possibly introduce a new tier of gear for hard mode raids that is superior to current ascended gear sets while keeping easy mode at the current level of gearThis obviously means that some parts of the game would need to be tweaked, remade, coded differently, and that means time and money for ArenaNet. And I would honestly be fine if this feature was not introduced either way.
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@"maddoctor.2738" said:

The rest of the thread disagrees which why it exists. You can find why it's a bad idea if you read some of the other pages but the most important reason I guess is developer resources required to plan and implement multiple difficulty settings. It was even given by developers as a reason so it must be important, they should know better. When it comes on what to cut in order to implement more difficulty modes for Raids is when things get hazy. And no, reducing the, already at a snail pace, Raid schedule is not an option.

Another reason, also given by the developers themselves, is that they want Raids to be the ultimate challenge. If they add easier modes, they won't be the ultimate challenge anymore. It's already stretching the limits of "ultimate challenge" since CM Fractals exist.

Further reason for not implementing one an easy mode is because it would split the community, nobody likes splitting communities. This is yet another argument given by the developers on why CM versions of Raids aren't repeatable. They are afraid it would cause segregation, similar reason why lower difficulty versions shouldn't be implemented either.

Another reason is that an easy mode is worthless for training/learning purposes, it's like saying T1 Nightmare "trains" you for CM Nightmare (that's the difficulty difference between our current Raids and the most common easy mode proposal around here) You are naive if you think anyone would learn from this and then move on the higher difficulty, the gap would still be gigantic. It doesn't happen in Fractals, even though there are 5 difficulty settings, it won't happen in Raids.

Finally there are reasons about exclusive rewards tied behind content. An easy mode giving out Legendary Armor or other achievements, or not. This is another huge part of the discussion over the 100 pages, although recently many on the side of an easy mode have accepted the idea of such a potential mode not giving access to the highest Raid rewards.

The rest of the thread is repeating the above over and over in circles. I'm only giving you the reasons why implementing such a change is a bad idea, if you want further details read the rest of the thread, this is only a summary and honestly I don't want to go over all that again for the 20th time, especially with certain posters.

PS: Did I miss anything?

No, I don't think you've missed anything from my reading anyways.

I do agree, it's really not feasible for anet to allocate enough to raids to overhaul them to include new difficulties (as again, they have said themselves). I personally disagree that adding an easier version of something makes the harder version not as hard, especially if we consider them to be comparative to T1 vs CM fractals. By that comparison, they're almost entirely different experiences yeah? I don't see how creating an easier version of something takes away someone else's experience/fun personally. It just gives more options so more people can do their fun. Nobody likes splitting communities, but I think there's already a divide between the folks who do raids as they are currently and those who would do an easier version. I personally don't see how implementing an easier mode would divide the current community? That said I'm not part of the current community and admittedly I could be completely blind to how that would. I didn't say, "train" for clarification. The gap would still be gigantic, I agree, but accessibility can be a motivator to overcome that gap. I also agree that an easy mode shouldn't give the same rewards as a higher difficulty.

Also, no, I'm not arguing that anet should magically find and allocate resources to make this happen. I just don't think it would be such a horrific thing if it were possible. As stated before though, I don't think there is an easy solution.

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@Jamie.4130 said:Mostly I think an easy mode would be fine to bring more enjoyment to the community due to the people who either don't have time to raid, can't learn to raid, or don't have the skills to raid. I understand that bringing the elite endgame content to the majority of the player base has issues like LFR on WoW, but I don't see it as much of an issue under a few conditions. The conditions that should be met to consider doing an easy mode and hard mode is that:

  1. Hard mode has to have very lucrative and exclusive rewards that easy mode can never and will never match in order for the elite player base to still feel rewarded in doing this content
  2. Easy mode has to be challenging enough that it makes strategy important to completion, much like how raids are now but with a removal of some mechanics or bosses altogether that make it easier to complete than hard mode.
  3. Possibly introduce a new tier of gear for hard mode raids that is superior to current ascended gear sets while keeping easy mode at the current level of gearThis obviously means that some parts of the game would need to be tweaked, remade, coded differently, and that means time and money for ArenaNet. And I would honestly be fine if this feature was not introduced either way.

Point 3 would be a ridiculous bad idea. Lack of gear grind was a big motivation to try this game out

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Yggdrasiln.5240" said:I don't think giving raiding a bit of wiggle room is a bad idea?

Further reason for not implementing one an easy mode is because it would split the community, nobody likes splitting communities. This is yet another argument given by the developers on why CM versions of Raids aren't repeatable. They are afraid it would cause segregation, similar reason why lower difficulty versions shouldn't be implemented either.

The thing with this statement is, it’s not really splitting the current raid community, what would happen is you would an influx of players that would be running into easy mode raids that isn’t currently raiding in the first place. If people left the normal mode to the easy mode they were never invested in normal mode to begin with.

Another reason is that an easy mode is worthless for training/learning purposes, it's like saying T1 Nightmare "trains" you for CM Nightmare (that's the difficulty difference between our current Raids and the most common easy mode proposal around here) You are naive if you think anyone would learn from this and then move on the higher difficulty, the gap would still be gigantic. It doesn't happen in Fractals, even though there are 5 difficulty settings, it won't happen in Raids.

Maybe it shouldn’t be training for normal, but a place where all the people with the grocery list of reasons they don’t Raid, can go.

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