Elementalist Trait Lines Issues — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Elementalist Trait Lines Issues

Nath Forge Tempete.1645Nath Forge Tempete.1645 Member ✭✭✭
edited December 4, 2018 in Elementalist

I've been annoyed for a long time by the way of ele traits works compared to all other classes.

What is my point ?

When you look on a way to make elementalist efficient in one specific gamemode. Let's say sPvP for example. You basically need to spec 3 trait lines (and a rune exploit) to make it really efficient .

** Example Condition cleansing : **

  • Air or arcane trait line (for swiftness and / or regen application)
  • water trait line for cleansing on regen
  • weaver to make swiftness applying regen.

The whole spec (3 trait lines) are used to make it efficient ... even if the recent air trait line changes make it more efficient in term of dmg application while still effective since it gives some swiftness.
When you look at the whole picture , it looks like a great synergy etc. Well thought from the devs .

BUT (yeah ... I wouldn't make a post otherwise) when you compare this with other classes. They all have (the ones I know very well at least) very specific trait lines that are self- sufficient and doesn't require to pick another one to make it worth.

Staff ele has been dominant for years in pve

There's a lot of reason why it has. Mostly cause you can spam AOEs with staff (+conjures)... you don't find the same dps with any other ele weapon. BUT one of the reason (which leads to my point above) is that you spec 3 trait lines again to make ele efficient in damage application.

  • Fire : for fury and damage multiplier
  • Air : fury + ferocity + damge multiplier again
  • Weaver : only damage multipliers and some precision

What does it tell about the class :

totally my point of view there

  • The class is too complicated while it could have been way more simple
  • If you change all this trait line to make one being able to do one thing each... You 'll have to redefine every based damage without all these damage multiplier. Damage scaling has always been an issue for years.
  • Fixing the class would be an insanly huge amount of work (even worse than revenant) but in the end could be easier to balance.

Conclusion (the only thing you need to read)

For me , the main consquence of Elementalist current state is the way of trait lines are design .

Comments

  • Well we could go the boring way and remove thematics from the traits, and let them focus on roles :)
    Arcane should focus on attunements, aura and conjure (weird to put it on fire imo).

    Then your attunements could reflect your choice of traits (would really ruin early game and remove some flavor).
    All attuenemts should be base dmg (maybe changed to water condi and active CC, Earth condi and passive CC).

    Then you take the trait line for support (insert fancy name)
    And now earth and water gain respectively defence and healing and lose some dmg, fire and lightning will gain group buff (fire could heal aswell).

    Also attunement would have “roles” beside water and earth being condi, lightning would be long range dmg (no idea with staff.. 1500?) and fire will focus on close combat (or close range utility like flaming retreat).

    This is just a few ideas to make your build be more impactfull and with a more well thought out trait rework, even open up for more viable builds, maybe even hybrid!

    So you could camp in one attunement, but changing would make a better rotation especially with some traits.
    So like being another class, but with attunements for situations or rotations.

  • @Phoenix the One.4071 said:
    Well we could go the boring way and remove thematics from the traits, and let them focus on roles :)
    Arcane should focus on attunements, aura and conjure (weird to put it on fire imo).

    Well not a bad idea honeslty

    Then your attunements could reflect your choice of traits (would really ruin early game and remove some flavor).
    All attuenemts should be base dmg (maybe changed to water condi and active CC, Earth condi and passive CC).

    Then you take the trait line for support (insert fancy name)
    And now earth and water gain respectively defence and healing and lose some dmg, fire and lightning will gain group buff (fire could heal aswell).

    Seems so complicated that i didn't understand the whole thing haha

    Also attunement would have “roles” beside water and earth being condi, lightning would be long range dmg (no idea with staff.. 1500?) and fire will focus on close combat (or close range utility like flaming retreat).

    Naaa I don't like the way attunements are designed currently . I would prefer the role defined by the weapon you use instead of all weapons being able to heal - dmg - support at once.

    This is just a few ideas to make your build be more impactfull and with a more well thought out trait rework, even open up for more viable builds, maybe even hybrid!

    I think that the current synergy makes all other builds not viable (mostly why earth line is never played) And I think it would be changed all at once and not some random traits every 18 months.

  • Hmm the weapon would not be able to do everything unles syou traited it for it, I mean it would still ahve its bormal ability, but going lightning on dagger would make it a “long range” weapon (like water does for now).
    So changing for lightning would be like a warrior changing from greatsword to longbow :)

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'd really like to agree with you but I think traits aren't really the elementalist issue.

    @Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:
    I've been annoyed for a long time by the way of ele traits works compared to all other classes.

    What is my point ?

    When you look on a way to make elementalist efficient in one specific gamemode. Let's say sPvP for example. You basically need to spec 3 trait lines (and a rune exploit) to make it really efficient .

    ** Example Condition cleansing : **

    • Air or arcane trait line (for swiftness and / or regen application)
    • water trait line for cleansing on regen
    • weaver to make swiftness applying regen.

    The whole spec (3 trait lines) are used to make it efficient ... even if the recent air trait line changes make it more efficient in term of dmg application while still effective since it gives some swiftness.
    When you look at the whole picture , it looks like a great synergy etc. Well thought from the devs .

    BUT (yeah ... I wouldn't make a post otherwise) when you compare this with other classes. They all have (the ones I know very well at least) very specific trait lines that are self- sufficient and doesn't require to pick another one to make it worth.

    On this specific example I think it's not traits that hurt the elementalist but utilities. There is a lack of sustain and condi cleanse on utilities that create this thirst for traitlines that provide it when you play into gamemodes where there is plenty of incoming condition and damage coming from everywhere.

    Staff ele has been dominant for years in pve

    There's a lot of reason why it has. Mostly cause you can spam AOEs with staff (+conjures)... you don't find the same dps with any other ele weapon. BUT one of the reason (which leads to my point above) is that you spec 3 trait lines again to make ele efficient in damage application.

    • Fire : for fury and damage multiplier
    • Air : fury + ferocity + damge multiplier again
    • Weaver : only damage multipliers and some precision

    It's no longer dominant thought... If you take a look at the "meta" builds, you'll see that sword is dominant for weaver and that all traitlines are used in a way or another. If anything the elementalist's traitline seem to suit well the PvE meta with, maybe, Air being a bit to dominant for power builds.

    What does it tell about the class :

    totally my point of view there

    • The class is too complicated while it could have been way more simple
    • If you change all this trait line to make one being able to do one thing each... You 'll have to redefine every based damage without all these damage multiplier. Damage scaling has always been an issue for years.
    • Fixing the class would be an insanly huge amount of work (even worse than revenant) but in the end could be easier to balance.

    Conclusion (the only thing you need to read)

    For me , the main consquence of Elementalist current state is the way of trait lines are design .

    It seem that for you the fact that damage multipliers are spread in every traitline is a bad thing, or at least it's how I read your last points. I disagree with you, like I said a bit before, this create build diversity in PvE at least.

    I'm not saying that elementalist's traitlines are perfect. In fact there are some traits that I'd prefer to see replaced (like the traits that reduce CD for weapon skills on specific attunment) but, having some damage multiplier widely spread certainly isn't a bad thing for the elementalist's build diversity. The issue really mainly come from how "poor" utilities are in regard of diversity and the QoL they grant. Glyph, signets, arcane, conjure... they are very single minded and mainly oriented toward damage. Out of the 4 listed, I'd say that Arcane and Signet are "ok" but glyphs could use some love on the defensive aspect and conjure really badly need QoL in their use.

    Let's be honest, if Conjure weapon were "practical" to use (read: being able to use them like engineer's kits), 70% of the elementalist's issues would be mended in all gamemodes. With this and If the glyphs were a tiny bit less focused on damage/control and instead a tiny bit more focused on some form of sustain/cleanse support for the elementalist (make lesser elementals give to their summoner an aura based on the elemental in place of their current active skill, with no change in the CD), the elementalist might be in an overall good place.

  • @Dadnir.5038 said:

    If ele had only one issue it would be "easy" to fix (or easier at least haha)

    It seem that for you the fact that damage multipliers are spread in every traitline is a bad thing, or at least it's how I read your last points. I disagree with you, like I said a bit before, this create build diversity in PvE at least.

    well not really just that you need all of them to be efficient ... while other class can get (and have the option to ) other utily traits usefull in party or making their life more comfortable

    ANd there i choose to pick traits cause almost no body complains about it while for me it's a big issues :D so is conjure and lack of utilities slkills

  • I sincerely apologise to be THAT guy, however the 1 thing that hurts the elementalist, is the people who designed it are no longer there, and the current responsibility is bent on mount skins rather than class management, who cares if a part of the community gets the short end of the stick, we got shiny beetle racing right? (I hope the sarcasm was clear enough.)

  • Zhaid Zhem.6508Zhaid Zhem.6508 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2018

    When you look at the whole picture , it looks like a great synergy etc. Well thought from the devs .

    3 lanes for 1 cleanse. Yeaaaaaah.
    But you can also take Fire spec. Is it effective ? No.
    You also have great synergy with auras : 1 or 2 traits in all lanes, you can't have them all, still need water for support effect. Is tempest effective ? No. Or cantrips in fire, earth : long icd, still need water lane for bonus effect.
    Holo, mirage, ranger, War, necro... are so jealous of so much complementarities IN each lanes, and BETWEEN each lanes.

    Conclusion (the only thing you need to read)

    For me , the main consquence of Elementalist current state is the way of trait lines are design .

    Yes it is. All our lanes are too dedicated to ONE single element, that we have to "buff" individually.
    They should stop "fire spec : fire attunements, fire weapon skills, fire utilty skills" "Water spec: water attunement, water skills,..." etc.
    We should have : "Arcanes spec : swap, arcanes skills" "Runes spec : Glyphs, signets, focus" "Elements : cantrips skills, some auras' buffs, conjure weapons, daggers" (for example) focused on Utility skills and more general buffs, with some synergy of course.
    Because that is how all others classes are designed and, sadly, currently because of all these versatiles and powercreeps specs, it works way better now.

  • cgMatt.5162cgMatt.5162 Member ✭✭✭

    Auras benefit Tempest the most since it is the Auramancer spec, but at that point it's a choice between protection on auras from Earth traitline or the cleanse from Fire traitline. No current meta build in any game mode uses the swiftness/fury from auras in Air. Weaver doesn't get that much benefit from the synergies with any aura traits tbh, much less find anything that feels effective from running Fire traits.

  • @Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:
    Yes it is. All our lanes are too dedicated to ONE single element, that we have to "buff" individually.
    They should stop "fire spec : fire attunements, fire weapon skills, fire utilty skills" "Water spec: water attunement, water skills,..." etc.
    We should have : "Arcanes spec : swap, arcanes skills" "Runes spec : Glyphs, signets, focus" "Elements : cantrips skills, some auras' buffs, conjure weapons, daggers" (for example) focused on Utility skills and more general buffs, with some synergy of course.
    Because that is how all others classes are designed and, sadly, currently because of all these versatiles and powercreeps specs, it works way better now.

    Sadly it came from GW1 ... back to then ele could spec on only 1 or 2 elements at a time ... so they just picked all specialisation (except energy storage that became arcane ) and paste it into GW2

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Somehow, only ele players seem to realize that... I fully agree, and already shared the same opinion.

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