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Which core/base profession do you want reworked/revamped?



  • Undertow.2389Undertow.2389 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 8, 2018

    @Zex Anthon.8673 said:
    Agreed. Virtues are essentially glorified signets. Tomes should be core with different skills depending on elite spec.

    I picked engineer for similar reasons. Toolbelt skills are just split effects of utility skills. We get to press more buttons to have the same effects. Yay... Kits really should be the profession mechanic.

    Yes, engineer has the "class mechanic" of "lots o' buttons" in an age when pretty much all elite specs have that plus more. Toolbelt skills can at least be swapped around, unlike virtues. And plenty of them have different effects to the utility skill. But still, it's no coincidence that engineer and guardian are my two primarily bank storage character slots.

    Core guardian virtures are definitely just signets, and even worse, weak signets. Signets are some of my least enjoyable utility stills, but they can be at least decent if both the passive and active effects are 1) strong, and 2) completely different, so the tradeoff is noticeable and you want to pick the right time to use it. An example would be Warrior's signet of stamina: strong endurance regen or a strong condi cleanse. Virtues are neither. Justice is damage or... damage. Resolve is healing or... healing (and a couple condis). Courage is a block or... a block.

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 8, 2018

    A few classes come to mind:

    • Engineer core is simply woefully outdated, nowhere it fits in.
    • Revenant core is bad, needs improvement, let's say in the form of utility skills.
    • Necro core is laughably irrelevant, but its especs don't need buffing.
    • Does ele core even exist any more?
    • Thief core is simply subpar to daredevil. there's no reason to ever take core thief over daredevil.

    Classes that don't need it:

    • Warrior has a good core to build from.
    • Guardian core is still quite competent in the right hands.
    • Ranger core is more than adequate in numerous situations.
    • Mesmer core is doing fine, although it's definitely subpar compared to chrono.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Unknown.3976Unknown.3976 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2018

    Engie def needs a rework, kits are a juxtapose of confusing utilities and purpose. Turrets are mostly pointless (outside of static farming). Elixirs are only suited for roaming builds and its' boon granting abilities is superseded by modern support builds. And don't even get me started on scrapper, the elite spec that's most in need of an overhaul..

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2018

    @Tehologist.5841 said:
    Kits should not be forced upon us, should have weapon swap and more than 3 weapons. Kits are not a mechanic, they are only an optional utility skill, the mechanic is toolbelt and weapons don’t impact it. I don’t buy the excuse of not having weapon swap because of optional utilities.

    Agree so much with that, I don't consider kits are weapons, not even mechanics for me, it's more a hole filler when seeing the awful small number of combination that us, engie have. (4 (+2 with specs) / 16, not even the half) I'm for weapon swap since the beginning, and more since we have holo and scrapper. We should be able to switch between Range form and CC form in combat.
    In fact, swap should be available for any profession. Kits are skills. And not that strong apart grenades. My rifle also feel weak compared to deadeye one. I remember when we used to have the possibility to overcharge turrets and gaining 5 vulnerability on enemies per immobilization, was non-sense to remove all that good stuff.

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  • Edge.8724Edge.8724 Member ✭✭✭

    Honestly, Thief, Necro, Ranger and Revenant need a serious rework.

  • necro

    @Pterikdactyl.7630 said:
    I think core rev and necro need it most. Rework, not necessarily. Thorough review and balance pass, absolutely.

    @Rexts.8037 said:
    Necro and only Necro!
    Necro was first introduced as condi focus profession but the traits and newcomer elite traits told other stories in one dimensional way, even the core Necro skills and traits now promote direct damage play more than what it is due to be condi focus. The Death Shroud is overwhelmingly worse than Reaper Shround in every aspect, the core skill is inconsistent, the weapons which Necro can use are not friendly to condi focus player, because we have no choice, there is only one condi main hand weapon we have in six years, not because it is good.

    i'm agree with you. Necro promote concept about condition but now it's changed. in my opinion Necromancer is a most funny profession in game, cause they can play with condition like roam, sent, tranfer, consume and convert many boons foe (well/curse skill). while the first profession when they want condi damage is not Necro and newest patch seem force Necro to be tank mage cause 2 health bar? (slightly better change in Scourge). it's hard to play condition attribute. please think about it.

  • engineer

    One word: pistols.
    So bad...

  • Dabrixmgp.4758Dabrixmgp.4758 Member ✭✭
    edited November 20, 2018

    Im not gonna count Rev since I consider Core class to mean it was here at launch. that being said its hands down Ele. its just not fun to play anymore and I mained Ele until HoT. Dont understand why anyone would would play something requiring so many button mashes just to do less damage than a Warrior pressing Axe 5. Not to mention you bring little utility that another class wouldnt be better at bringing. I used to be wanted for healing inWvW and now everyone just runs FBs. Ele just requires too much effort. You have to play perfectly in order to kill anyone while you watch some kid with Downs playing a thief and 1 shotting people.

  • michelada.2947michelada.2947 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 24, 2018

    Core enginner is in a bad spot to be honest, it would be nice if anet add mace as a support weapon for the core class

  • elementalist

    I was going to say rev, but ele is seriously in a bad spot in terms of design. I feel like ele is the only profession who cant recieve a proper e-spec due to the nature of its attunement class mechanic. The class mechanic is its weapon skills so thats a problem right off the bat. Any changes to the weapon skills will affect balance, and usually core will suffer because of it. Having a class that always brings every offensive and defensive tool it has makes it impossible to have more than one build for the class, its constantly stuck being the jack of all trades, even in all its elite specs. Also its traits are trash and all over the place.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'd say the one that has no real place / really performing spec in sPvP meta, and is being less and less relevant in high end pve /wvw content.

  • Zin Dau.1749Zin Dau.1749 Member ✭✭✭

    Obviously Revenant and Engineer because they are the least played, least popular, and least effective.

    Objectively Rev probably needs the most work--both on mechanics and theme. I conjecture that very few people actually understand its flavor and skill rotation. But eh it is too murky to envision and find a definitive way to improve.

    So I vote Engineer because I and many others really like its theme, but its mechanics and power level has always been the worst since the beginning. Having the fewest choices of weapons also make them worst choice for customization (i.e. chasing legendaries and skins) by far. Worst, if kits replace weapon sets, then weapon type don't even matter; only its stats and sigils matter, not the skills.

  • engineer

    @Zin Dau.1749 said:
    Obviously Revenant and Engineer because they are the least played, least popular, and least effective.

    Objectively Rev probably needs the most work--both on mechanics and theme. I conjecture that very few people actually understand its flavor and skill rotation. But eh it is too murky to envision and find a definitive way to improve.

    So I vote Engineer because I and many others really like its theme, but its mechanics and power level has always been the worst since the beginning. Having the fewest choices of weapons also make them worst choice for customization (i.e. chasing legendaries and skins) by far. Worst, if kits replace weapon sets, then weapon type don't even matter; only its stats and sigils matter, not the skills.

    I agree engineer and revenant being the two least played professions need some love. Engineers profession mechanic lacks flavor and is ultimately a crutch (more buttons to do the same thing). Kits really should have been the mechanic from the start, that way they can have the "weapon swap ability" without filling a utility slot.

    Revenents profession mechanic is energy/utility swapping. However, like toolbelt, it doesn't do enough to fill the role of a profession mechanic. Id say give rev an F5 ability called Avatar like Dervish's Avatar in gw1. Except, instead of channeling the gods, it channels the legends.

  • elementalist

    Just make an elementalist;)

  • Iustitian.9176Iustitian.9176 Member ✭✭
    edited December 28, 2018

    Necromancer! Minions should be a basic part of this class (like in the most other MMORPGs).
    F2 for summoning bone minions and F3 for summoning bone fiends for lifeforce would be great.
    In addition new traits to improve them.

    And all the ranger pets. Their skills never been touched enough since the release.

    But i voted thief because i hate the actual gameplay with thiefs... Stealth and Evasion, core parts of a thief, are uninteresting. Only dmg dmg dmg...

  • ranger

    Ranger: pet mechanics needs reworking.
    Minor traits of MM are useless.

  • Arkantos.7460Arkantos.7460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    give revs 100% energy on fight start and remove cds

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Seems some people don't know what a rework is (i.e. someone suggesting a rework based on thief pistol) and are fixated on golem DPS. If it's even semi-competitive as a class it doesn't need a rework , although naturally some classes will have traitlines that work better in PvP, WvW, or PvE. I'd rather not waste valuable manhours of Arenanet on something that may not even work out.

    Sometimes it isn't so much that core needs improvement as much as elite specs are massively improving stats and PvE raids being one big HP sponge with an enrage timer. If anything some classes deserve chronomancer-style leveling of the playing field.

    1. Core necro shroud : maybe have it all ranged in contrast to the short range of reaper but with higher damage on 2-5 in PvE along with PvE-only cooldowns. If cooldowns are over 15s the 10s shroud cooldown could be shorter in PvE. Maybe hitting multiple times to synergize with blood magic should be considered (Life transfer attempts this), or perhaps just to lower blind/weakness effectiveness on core necros. Traits and skills don't need as much work , maybe some stab and mobility (reaper's shroud has more mobility and reaper has pulsing stab in reaper's shroud). As much as people hate on death magic (probably PvE only players with focus on raids that have one enemy), people in open world can use it for sustain + LF and there's a toughness to power conversion such that toughness isn't as penalized.
      ------ Also utility skills in shroud should have cooldowns show as they do for firebrand, engineer, and eles with conjured weapons.
      ------ Necro elites see plenty of use in WvW and as much as people say necros overall have no utility, scourges put up barriers.

    2. core rev : mostly a hodge podge unless you run power (devastation, invocation, salvation/retribution) , as condi builds are better with Kalla and likely also alacrity builds. It doesn't need a full rework but I feel core rev ought to have a F2 to maintain competitiveness with Herald and Renegade. Retribution (with dwarf) and Salvation (with Ventari) are usable on core rev due to recent changes. Rev shouldn't take the top spot despite the rigid utilities simply because every rev has access to herald/renegade.
      ------ shield needs work but isn't core

    minor changes

    • core thief: it's weaker than daredevil for melee and deadeye in ranged
    • core engineer: there's few reasons to run one over holo or scrapper. a big first would probably to make pistol stronger by increasing bleed stack and cutting duration (so it's not just grenades to proc the firearms line or bomb kit with explosives line) . Experimental turrets with rifle turret for fury won't compete with Druid or herald and core engi will use condi mostly.
    • core ele : dagger /staff / scepter fire (auto in PvE) needs to be looked at a bit (scepter is still incredibly slow). Not so much the specializations (air or arcane for power , earth or arcane for condi)
      ----- air traitline changes helped core ele a bit but dagger users in PvE that can't swap for range have an issue in that conjure recharges are too long and lava axe is rarely used (ice bow was nerfed as well)
      ---- I'd like to see scaling of weapons increase but weaver stat bonuses cut a bit since weaver has inherent bonuses, plus possible ones from swiftness and single attuning (if traited). Tempest has access to additional damage and support with the tradeoff of needing "fresh air" if overloading air.

    probably not

    • core warrior: best example of good core class (20% damage bonus from peak performance , empower allies) at least for PvE
    • core guard: decent, it's more that firebrand is stronger due to quickness + tomes , "Feel my wrath" elite skill could use an increase in potency or a PvE cooldown reduction since renewed focus is much stronger with tomes and aegis output is far better on firebrand
    • core ranger: loses healing + might generation from Grace of the land , or damage bonuses in soulbeast traitlines ; I don't understand ranger complaints as you can play core ranger even if it isn't optimal. It's much stronger in situations where the enemies are fewer in number. Additionally the elite spec weapons don't have much potency (i.e. staff is for astral force not so much for the minor healing , it's probably weaker than guardian mace or ele staff)
      ---- in situations where spirits aren't used, the "protect me" skill should probably give the pet damage reduction as a portion of ranger damage comes from the pet

    • core Mesmer: an alternative to mirage for condi , as axe isn't massively better than scepter + staff

  • Omernon.9762Omernon.9762 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2019

    Biggest issue with Core Engi are not weapon swaps (or lack of them) and toolkits. If you simplify them you will ruin everything that is fun and unique about this profession - lots of gadgets and utilities. If Scrapper is known for its support abilities and Holo for high burst damage, then core engineer needs to be good at everything and master of none kind of play-style, while at the same time it shouldn't be so frustrating to play. To some degree this is what it is now, except that it's versality was reduced without or little recompensation. It used to be a profession (during release) with turets that could easily mow down entire groups of mobs in Open World content and that could deploy stationary mortal for other players to use etc.

    I'm not asking for core engi to be better than elite specs in their area of expertise. I'm not even asking for this spec to be better at anything that any other core spec focuses on. All I want for core engi is to be more fun to play; to be able to kite large pack of mobs over mine-fields that are powerful enough so that players have a reason to use them; to be able to deploy turrets that bring meaningful but stationary firepower on battlefield, so that I can feel that I really did fortify a spot during heavy-defense event in HoT or PoF areas or to fortify castle walls/gates in WvW; to be able to place a stationary mortar with 2k range for myself or allies like it used to be a thing before it was reworked into elite granade launcher; I also want to be able to repair everything that I've placed - be it turrets, drones or whatever they came up with. In other words, I want this profession to feel like a real combat engineer.

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Speaking of repairing turrets, I'm sure at 100% we had a trait for that. Increasing turrets health and making them self-repair we even had overcharge skills but all of that I've been removed.

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  • Xxnecroxx.4039Xxnecroxx.4039 Member ✭✭✭

    Necro needs it, it is currently the worst class in the game period, it feels like you are hitting things with a wet noodle in PVE, they are literally a joke. when it comes to WvW you are only good in zergs and when you are HEAVILY supported and very similar in PVP. necro has been gutted and gutted some more. its the reason why I stopped playing GW2 about a year ago, I read every batch of necro nerfs, im sorry I meant to say balance changes that come but in all seriousness even when necro was already gutted Anet decides to just gut necro some more and I am sick of it

  • Bashi.8902Bashi.8902 Member ✭✭✭

    Can we buff thief already? Legit since HoT came out we just got worse and worse its gotten so bad that our only role in pvp is using shortbow 5. Deadeye is a useless meme and daredevil is a joke of a spec. The only viable thief build right now is sw/d CORE and thats literally because of swindlers equilibrium and sword 3 beeing a dodge. For 6 Initiative we deal less damage and are at a higher risk then a ranger shooting 2 longbow autoattacks. The only time you get are able to kill a dude is when he is at 10% hp because he was in a 1vq against your spellbreaker on your node.
    Other the that thief is squishy, doesnt do damage, has almost no build variety, is high risk low reward and relies way to hard on steal to do anything. Also nerf backstab...

  • Auburner.6945Auburner.6945 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2019

    Ele needs a weapon swap, there are situations that feel so awkward being locked into melee, revenant is better at this part except that its utilities that change, ele can have that but on weapons, the distance between fire/air weapon that carries out fire/air perfectly and water/earth weapon that does the same is a weapon swap button, and F1 allows ele to be water primarily while earth is secondary, reactivating F1 lets go of water: this should allow ele to have weapons specified for one thing not all while still not harming its 4 attunements, you will need to press 2 buttons sometimes than one to have a specific attunement maybe, but a weapon swap is good imho.

    The need to line up 3 trait lines to have synergy because all trait lines aren't self-sufficient, sure there must be synergy between them but you shouldn't be forced to pick a whole trait line to obtain that and synergize all traits in this trait line so that then this trait line with the chosen traits can have synergy with the 2 other trait lines, the themed trait lines are awful and will always make ele locked into the 2 attunements they picked because all buffs for the other trait lines are no longer there: add universal trait lines that still make fire and air high damage dealers but not lock you out of earth and water because there is nothing to do there in terms of damage, this will help ele to have versatility and use the full package.

    Scepter and focus feel so dull to play with, add a ranged weapon that is fast paced like a bow or a GS for core ele or rework what ele already has, because staff is way too slow "glorified sign road begging to not get hit by anything during casting", thus ele is most of the time forced into melee weapons to deal burst damage or rely less on RNG for once, let alone that ele can't swap weapons and current ranged weapons are worthless when dueling or solo exploring so melee is an obligation for these situations and do a better job which isn't that good for a profession that has no blocks, immunities, sustain, evades, cc, mobility, boon uptime/control without letting go of the damage output or become a rally bot if the aforementioned utilities already exist (some do).

    Make a full review on the utilities: half of them are of no use and not even usable as situational picks, they are just there to fill in the set or were usable back then.

    Can ele have the ability to support the party as a pure damage dealer, like damage buffs or some effects and same implies to when going as a healer? Like have something unique, sure it shouldn't be optimal in all situations but it's not preferable when compared atm, or make it have built-in effects in weapons or utilities, not just pure damage/healing only as the current state is, most of abilities are literally nothing but a number and duration for that number.

    Finally, review the weaver trait line, the concept of dual attuning and lower attunement cooldown is great and I love it (the burst and consistency of damage is impressive, same goes for tons of evades in bunker build), but the trait line barely touches this mechanic and is literally nothing but buffs that you get when you have swiftness boon, it even rewards you for fully attuning and has a utility to let go of the weaver spec for a period of time. For tempest, it was not fun at all: air overload 24/7 with some skills in between to refresh the cooldown or letting go of utility slots to have auras that aren't equal to the effects given or the high cooldown.

  • elementalist

    Elementalist is definitely a good canditate, although I'm surprised at it being higher than revenant's. Probably because more people play it.

    Elementalist's core design problems:

    • Attunement system forces every build to be a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none type of class. You can't specialize on any element except air somewhat with Fresh Air's trait. That's it. And relying on a trait to achieve that is already problematic by itself.
    • Stat deficit. The attunement cycling/ high versatility escales so incredibly well with hybrid(/ celestial) stats that developers can't boost the classes' base sustain/ survivability without making jack-of-all-trade builds broken. This means speccing into offensive attributes is usually bad in competitive game modes or highly annoying in PvE due to the random 12k damage one-shots.
    • "More is less" with the attunement system. Twice the skills, half their effectiveness, twice the effort, half the satisfaction. It can be very interesting to pull off some cross-attunement combos (dagger/ dagger builds especially), but most weapon sets are too boring for that.

    Balance problems:

    • Balance pass is required for all weapons. Weak auto-attacks or underwhelming skills makes you ignore half of each weapon's toolset. Fresh Air Dagger is actually fun because its auto-attacks are smooth and strong.
    • Fresh Air should not be a major trait, but a minor one, and its reset mechanic or something similar should be core in every element-specific trait line.
      • «Fresh Fire»: Each burning tick decreases your fire attunement's cooldown by x%.
      • «Fresh Water»: Dodging and evading attacks resets your water's attunement cdr.
      • «Fresh Earth»: Getting hit resets your earth's attunement cdr.