Full counter has been nerfed by -83% damage total. That is over kill. — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Full counter has been nerfed by -83% damage total. That is over kill.

Hitman.5829Hitman.5829 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited December 23, 2018 in Warrior
  • Full Counter: The damage applied by this skill in competitive modes has been reduced from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE. Its daze duration in competitive game modes has been increased to 1.5 seconds.

This is very cryptic and confusing. What do you mean by "it has been reduced from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE."
I think they are saying they reduce FC to -66.66% because (25/75 - 1)*100% = -66.66%
In previous patches, they were clear how much damage was nerfed, but this patch they are very cryptic and confusing. They are not being transparent! I wonder why.

  • October 17 (Reduce damage by 12.5% in PvP and WvW only.)
  • November 7 (Increased recharge from 8 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP and WvW only.) This is equivalent to a -33% damage reduction (8/12 -1)*100% = -33%
  • March 27 (Reduced damage by 14% in PvP and WvW.)
  • December 11 (reduced from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE.)(-66.66% damage nerf)

If we do the math to find the TOTAL damage lost since FC was launched we get:
[(1 - 0.125)(1 - 0.33)(1 - 0.14)*(1 - 0.66) - 1] * 100% = - 83%

That means FC has been Nerf by -83% since launch!

EDIT 1:
Curiosity note: Do you know by how much damage they will have to buff FC to bring it back to its original version?
By 497% YES THAT IS CORRECT!
Percentages are not something to be mess with! That is why when you lose money in the stock market, it is very difficult to earn back what you lost.
How did I calculate 497% here is the equation:
let X be the percent damage increase to bring FC back to normal, then:
[(1 - 0.125)(1 - 0.33)(1 - 0.14)*(1 - 0.66)(1 + X) - 1] * 100% =0%

Solving for X gives 4.97 which is 497%

Heck, to buff FC back to a half the value of PvE, they will have to buff FC by 199% damage.
What they did to warrior is stupid and careless.
At this point I am guessing the people in charge of balancing skills are unpaid interns.

EDIT 2:
Guys, some of you are so confused about the 2:3 ratio of Full Counter and how this ratio is a -33.33% damage nerf.
I will explain how the 2:3 ratio translates to a -33.33% damage nerf.
In PvE the cooldown of FC is 8 sec.
In PvP and WvW the cooldown of FC is 12 sec.
Thus the ratio is 8/12 = 2/3 (or in more eloquent notation 2:3)
This means that using 2 Full Counters in PvE is the equivalent of using 3 Full Counter in WvW or PvP.

As you can see time is irrelevant in the 2:3 ratio.
Using 2 FC in PvE is equivalent to 3 FC in WvW or PvP.
Now, suppose that the damage of FC in PvE, WvW and PvP is X.
Using the 2:3 ratio, we can calculate the damage ratio as 2X/3X = 2/3
This means that the damage ratio is also in the form 2:3
Therefore, by increasing FC from 8 sec to 12 sec, Anet has nerfed FC damage by (2/3 - 1) * 100 = -33.33%

Charr Warrior Master Race!
Black Gate Beast Roamer chicken chaser!

<13

Comments

  • daw.4923daw.4923 Member ✭✭

    it means that it was 75% in pvp and now its 25%,pve is 100%
    easier whoud be to say,we made you pvp spec warriors,sadly it was good,so we nerfed it by 50% have fun.

  • Hitman.5829Hitman.5829 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 15, 2018

    @daw.4923 said:
    it means that it was 75% in pvp and now its 25%,pve is 100%
    easier whoud be to say,we made you pvp spec warriors,sadly it was good,so we nerfed it by 50% have fun.

    At first i thought that they were nerfing by 50%, but their wording is very confusing. In mathematics losing 20% and then losing 50% is not the same as 20% + 50%.
    It is illegal to add percentages like that.

    However, if they are saying that now FC is 25% of the original FC then that is a nerf of -75%.
    If we take in consideration the cooldown increase from 8 sec to 12 sec then that is a nerf of -33.33% on damage.

    So if I have understood correctly their wording, then FC TOTAL nerf in damage is about:
    [(1 - 0.75)*(1 - 0.33) - 1] * 100% = -83%

    Thus, like I had calculated in the beginning, FC has been nerfed by -83%
    That is BAD.

    Just so you know, this December patch FC was nerfed by -66.66% not -50%.
    Perhaps that is why they are not telling us how much damage was nerfed on this patch because they dont want you to know the huge nerf on FC.

    Charr Warrior Master Race!
    Black Gate Beast Roamer chicken chaser!

  • Miko.4158Miko.4158 Member ✭✭✭

    yes, with the nerf to wod, It looks like new elites are on the way.
    buy or die

  • daw.4923daw.4923 Member ✭✭
    edited December 15, 2018

    @Rysdude.3824 said:
    So essentially now its just a block with a 1.5 daze, as a profession mechanic?

    nooo,you have 2 daggers,with amazing utility,2 random utility like agro on 35 sec cd and ability to DEstealth invis ppl! both skills are on other classes with 1/4 cd without taking any utility slot,but ...... ye.

  • zionophir.6845zionophir.6845 Member ✭✭
    edited December 15, 2018

    that means get the 75% of FC damage in PvE and subtract 50% of FC damage in PvE. so the scaling of damage is based upon PvE damage. so the damage of FC is @ constant and settled at that. 25% PvE damage should be the base.

    check the history of FC if it was split game mode wise [PvE ~ PvP/WvW]. then go from there to get the numbers.

    A.NET just wants you to effin go to PvE and do damage. and that damage is the baseline and you can even hit the hardest PvE mob. and if you go PvP/WvW and if you notice mega-inconsistency, like if you hit the hardest PvE mob at 1k damage and you hit a kitten player at 200 damage, most probably that your enemy in PvP/WvW is using some kitten software or there is some kitten layer in your effin game client. either of those.

    meaning sh1tters in the internet, sh1tters in the outernet.

    lel.

  • Hitman.5829Hitman.5829 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 17, 2018

    @zionophir.6845 said:
    that means get the 75% of FC damage in PvE and subtract 50% of FC damage in PvE.

    I know that not everyone has the gift of math and I am not judging, so for clarification going from 75% to 25% is not 75% - 25% = 50%
    Let X be the PvE damage, then 75% of PvE is:

    • (X)(0.75)
      And 25% of PvE is:

    • (X)(0.25)

    Therefore, the damage lost going from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE is:

    • [(X)(0.25)/(X)(0.75) -1] * 100% = [(0.25/0.75) - 1] * 100%
    • = -66.66%

    So, going from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE is not 50%, it is 66.66%

    check the history of FC if it was split game mode wise [PvE ~ PvP/WvW]. then go from there to get the numbers.

    mmmm did you read my previous posts? I posted them with exact nerf damage
    The calculated TOTAL damage nerfed FC since launch is -83%

    [(1 - 0.125)(1 - 0.33)(1 - 0.14)*(1 - 0.66) - 1] * 100% = - 83%

    • October 17 (Reduce damage by 12.5% in PvP and WvW only.)
    • November 7 (Increased recharge from 8 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP and WvW only.) This is equivalent to a 33% damage reduction (8/12 -1)*100% = 33%
    • March 27 (Reduced damage by 14% in PvP and WvW.)
    • December 11 (reduced from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE.) (-66.66% damage nerf)

    And just to add as a curiosity note: Do you know by how much damage they will have to buff FC to bring it back to its original version?
    By 497% YES THAT IS CORRECT!
    Percentages are not something to be mess with! That is why when you lose money in the stock market, it is very difficult to earn back what you lost.
    How did I calculate 497% here is the equation:
    let X be the percent damage increase to bring FC back to normal, then:
    [(1 - 0.125)(1 - 0.33)(1 - 0.14)*(1 - 0.66)(1 + X) - 1] * 100% =0%

    Solving for X gives 4.97 which is 497%

    Charr Warrior Master Race!
    Black Gate Beast Roamer chicken chaser!

  • Red Haired Savage.5430Red Haired Savage.5430 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 17, 2018

    I'll put this in terms others will understand easier. I put the same build/same gear on in both WvW and PvE and looked at my FC damage in each mode.
    PvE:
    Damage: 1,136
    CD: 8sec

    WvW
    Damage: 268
    CD: 12sec

    Now in a perfect wold I'd be able to use them on CD which I can't really do in either mode because someone needs to attack or I need to be in an AoE however for comparison's sake I'm just going to assume perfect world and that I can use it off CD (WvW I'm much more likely not to be able to use when on CD, so the numbers actually are much lower, unless you're fighting an idiot that's just face rolling skills and not dancing around you). I can get 3 FC's off in PvE in the time that I can get 2 off in WvW.

    (1,136)3=3,408
    (268)2=568
    568/3,408=0.166667

    So in reality we're doing about 16.6% of the damage in WvW that we can in PvE. And to be honest most people in small groups in competitive modes stop attacking when I use FC so it doesn't even really seem to proc.

    Edited because silly forum format.

    #nornmodeisbestmode

  • Hitman.5829Hitman.5829 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 17, 2018

    @Red Haired Savage.5430 said:
    I'll put this in terms others will understand easier. I put the same build/same gear on in both WvW and PvE and looked at my FC damage in each mode.
    PvE:
    Damage: 1,136
    CD: 8sec

    WvW
    Damage: 268
    CD: 12sec

    Now in a perfect wold I'd be able to use them on CD which I can't really do in either mode because someone needs to attack or I need to be in an AoE however for comparison's sake I'm just going to assume perfect world and that I can use it off CD (WvW I'm much more likely not to be able to use when on CD, so the numbers actually are much lower, unless you're fighting an idiot that's just face rolling skills and not dancing around you). I can get 3 FC's off in PvE in the time that I can get 2 off in WvW.

    (1,136)3=3,408
    (268)
    2=568
    568/3,408=0.166667

    yeah thanks for that example, now lets calculate the percent damage lost using his real life example:

    [(568/3408) - 1] * 100% = -83%

    So there you have it folks, FC has been nerfed by -83%.
    And like I said, to bring back FC to its original damage value, Anet will have to buff FC to 497% damage!
    And to buff FC back to a half the value of PvE, they will have to buff FC by 199% damage.

    Charr Warrior Master Race!
    Black Gate Beast Roamer chicken chaser!

  • cryorion.9532cryorion.9532 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 17, 2018

    If you think about it, they overnerfed power berserker too. Is it trend in balance team, to nerf warrior elite specs suddenly and hardly?
    At this point, why not just make FC a skill that triggers on button press intead of being hit by something? With current damage, it surely would be UltRa vErY oP.
    And in PvE, it would remove randomness and frustration from mobs suddenly retargeting, not attacking or interrupting their animations to not trigger FC.

  • daw.4923daw.4923 Member ✭✭

    at this current state of FC it could be put on AUTOCAST.

  • I agree on on 83% , but you named it wrong , it is Little Daze, not Full Counter.

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @steki.1478 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Hitman.5829 said:

    • Full Counter: The damage applied by this skill in competitive modes has been reduced from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE. Its daze duration in competitive game modes has been increased to 1.5 seconds.

    This is very cryptic and confusing. What do you mean by "it has been reduced from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE."
    I think they are saying they reduce FC to -66.66% because (25/75 - 1)*100% = -66.66%
    In previous patches, they were clear how much damage was nerfed, but this patch they are very cryptic and confusing. They are not being transparent! I wonder why.

    • October 17 (Reduce damage by 12.5% in PvP and WvW only.)
    • November 7 (Increased recharge from 8 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP and WvW only.) This is equivalent to a 33% damage reduction (8/12 -1)*100% = 33%
    • March 27 (Reduced damage by 14% in PvP and WvW.)
    • December 11 (reduced from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE.)

    If we do the math to find the TOTAL damage lost since FC was launched we get:
    [(1 - 0.125)(1 - 0.33)(1 - 0.14)*(1 - 0.66) - 1] * 100% = - 83%

    That means FC has been Nerf by -83% since launch!

    EDIT:
    Curiosity note: Do you know by how much damage they will have to buff FC to bring it back to its original version?
    By 497% YES THAT IS CORRECT!
    Percentages are not something to be mess with! That is why when you lose money in the stock market, it is very difficult to earn back what you lost.
    How did I calculate 497% here is the equation:
    let X be the percent damage increase to bring FC back to normal, then:
    [(1 - 0.125)(1 - 0.33)(1 - 0.14)*(1 - 0.66)(1 + X) - 1] * 100% =0%

    Solving for X gives 4.97 which is 497%

    Heck, to buff FC back to a half the value of PvE, they will have to buff FC by 199% damage.
    What they did to warrior is stupid and careless.
    At this point I am guessing the people in charge of balancing skills are unpaid interns.

    Your math is bad and you should feel bad...
    the 25 PVE and 75 PVP means that. The damage was reduced 75% for PVP but only 25% for PVE. The skill effects were split between game modes.
    And even then, what's with the 27/75 - 1... That's not how you make an average if that was your intention, and anything else is just incredibly misguided... They didn't say 25 out of 75 (that would make your calculations somewhat correct), they said 25% PVE to 75% PVP. With 25 to 75 the best you could do would be an average (which would be around 50).

    Your reading comprehension is obviously not great, so i'd suggest asking for some books for christmas...

    He includes cooldown nerf as well., which doesnt mean the skill does less damage, it just does less dps. Those are two very different terms.

    That is somewhat correct, if he's talking about dps... But the way he interprets the skill splits is just sad.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kiranslee.4829 said:
    I agree on on 83% , but you named it wrong , it is Little Daze, not Full Counter.

    You spelled "Soft breeze" wrong, i give you that, its a stinking breeze, hence why the 1,5s daze. Or maybe its a stunningly beautiful flowery smell.
    I know that i swapped back to core some patches ago and definately do NOT regret it in the slightest. Looking at red hairs pve/wvw dmg comparison makes me wanna cry/laugh, i cant decide.
    Calling it full counter is just a bad joke.

  • @RedShark.9548 said:

    @kiranslee.4829 said:
    I agree on on 83% , but you named it wrong , it is Little Daze, not Full Counter.

    You spelled "Soft breeze" wrong, i give you that, its a stinking breeze, hence why the 1,5s daze. Or maybe its a stunningly beautiful flowery smell.
    I know that i swapped back to core some patches ago and definately do NOT regret it in the slightest. Looking at red hairs pve/wvw dmg comparison makes me wanna cry/laugh, i cant decide.
    Calling it full counter is just a bad joke.

    It's a warm summer breeze that smells like lilacs. I've also switched back to core warrior cause this nerf was ridiculous.

    #nornmodeisbestmode

  • I'm in a game of thrones state of mind and looks like ANET gave Spellbreakers the LittleFinger

  • Hitman.5829Hitman.5829 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 17, 2018

    @Regh.8649 said:

    @Hitman.5829 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:
    Your math is bad and you should feel bad...
    the 25 PVE and 75 PVP means that. The damage was reduced 75% for PVP but only 25% for PVE. The skill effects were split between game modes.
    And even then, what's with the 27/75 - 1... That's not how you make an average if that was your intention, and anything else is just incredibly misguided... They didn't say 25 out of 75 (that would make your calculations somewhat correct), they said 25% PVE to 75% PVP. With 25 to 75 the best you could do would be an average (which would be around 50).

    Your reading comprehension is obviously not great, so i'd suggest asking for some books for christmas...

    Oh man don't make me school you on math. I will make you look bad seriously! I have a master's degree on physics.
    You poor understanding on percentages is non existent and seriously you should not say math is wrong if you don't have a clue of what is going on.

    (27/75 - 1) is the damage lost by going from 75 of PvE to 25 of PvE. IT IS NOT HOW YOU CALCULATE AVERAGES!
    If you keep reading all my comments you should know that I calculated the nerf on FC this December patch.
    I know that not everyone has the gift of math and I am not judging, so for clarification going from 75% to 25% is not 75% - 25% = 50%
    Let X be the PvE damage, then 75% of PvE is:

    (X)(0.75)
    And 25% of PvE is:
    
    (X)(0.25)
    

    Therefore, the damage lost going from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE is:

    [(X)(0.25)/(X)(0.75) -1] * 100% = [(0.25/0.75) - 1] * 100%
    = -66.66%
    

    So, going from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE is not 50%, it is 66.66%

    @steki.1478 said:
    He includes cooldown nerf as well., which doesnt mean the skill does less damage, it just does less dps. Those are two very different terms.

    No, Damage and damage per second are related by time! Suppose the cooldown was increased to 90000000000 seconds what is the damage nerf?
    it will be [(8/9x10^10) - 1] * 100 = -99.99%
    because you will not be able to cast the spell on a long cooldown and that is equivalent to a 99.99% nerf damage.

    Iron Legion material right here

    For Iron Legion!
    Charr warriors master race!

    Charr Warrior Master Race!
    Black Gate Beast Roamer chicken chaser!

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hitman.5829 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Hitman.5829 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Hitman.5829 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:
    Your math is bad and you should feel bad...
    the 25 PVE and 75 PVP means that. The damage was reduced 75% for PVP but only 25% for PVE. The skill effects were split between game modes.
    And even then, what's with the 27/75 - 1... That's not how you make an average if that was your intention, and anything else is just incredibly misguided... They didn't say 25 out of 75 (that would make your calculations somewhat correct), they said 25% PVE to 75% PVP. With 25 to 75 the best you could do would be an average (which would be around 50).

    Your reading comprehension is obviously not great, so i'd suggest asking for some books for christmas...

    Oh man don't make me school you on math. I will make you look bad seriously! I have a master's degree on physics.

    I have one in Engineering. Appeals to authority don't really work, but you're correct though.

    You poor understanding on percentages is non existent and seriously you should not say math is wrong if you don't have a clue of what is going on.

    (27/75 - 1) is the damage lost by going from 75 of PvE to 25 of PvE. IT IS NOT HOW YOU CALCULATE AVERAGES!
    If you keep reading all my comments you should know that I calculated the nerf on FC this December patch.
    I know that not everyone has the gift of math and I am not judging, so for clarification going from 75% to 25% is not 75% - 25% = 50%
    Let X be the PvE damage, then 75% of PvE is:

    (X)(0.75)
    And 25% of PvE is:
    
    (X)(0.25)
    

    Therefore, the damage lost going from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE is:

    [(X)(0.25)/(X)(0.75) -1] * 100% = [(0.25/0.75) - 1] * 100%
    = -66.66%
    

    So, going from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE is not 50%, it is 66.66%

    Ok, my bad i misunderstood your intention, i only did a cursory reading, and did what i accused you of, i misinterpreted your text. I'll freely admit that.
    In that case you are correct. The overall reduction of damage for PVP is indeed 66%. The current damage is 33% of the previous.

    @steki.1478 said:
    He includes cooldown nerf as well., which doesnt mean the skill does less damage, it just does less dps. Those are two very different terms.

    No, Damage and damage per second are related by time! Suppose the cooldown was increased to 90000000000 seconds what is the damage nerf?
    it will be [(8/9x10^10) - 1] * 100 = -99.99%

    Damage per second change will be 99%, but damage per hit isn't changed by the cooldown.

    because you will not be able to cast the spell on a long cooldown and that is equivalent to a 99.99% nerf damage.

    On Damage Per Second, not per hit. There's a distinction there to be made, and while you're correct that it matters overall

    In cases like Full Counter damage per second isn't as important since it's used situationally. Although, it does mater, of course, and the cooldown is part of the balance and it's potential output, but damage per hit is more important due to the situational nature of it.

    As a physicist I have been trained to look outside the box and seek many examples to explain the same thing.
    Now let me use this simple example that everyone will understand.
    Suppose you earn X dollars in 8 hours, but then your boss tells you he is going to pay you X dollars in 12 hours.
    Obviously you are not going to be happy because you will have to work harder and get pay the same amount of money.

    In fact, the work ratio is 2:3

    So, the same thing applies to FC, with the 8 sec to 12 sec increase, warriors have to do 3 FC to equate 2 FC from the past.
    So oblivious there is a damage nerf of -33.33%

    Cooldown nerf != damage nerf. It's a dps nerf. You don't have dps rotations in pvp because defensive skills also play a big role in your "skill rotation".

    If skill hits for 3k once per 10 seconds or once per year it still does 3k damage. Your "total skill damage" is still 3k, but your total damage over 8+ seconds time interval, also known as DPS, will be lower.

    I appreciate the enthusiasm for participation, but please refrain from posting if you don't know what 2:3 means.
    I want this post to be clear about the -83% damage nerf.

    You don't work for your skill cooldown, you wait for it. Waiting isnt damage nerf. Waiting isnt effort. Waiting is dps loss. Your analogy is a bit off.

  • @steki.1478 said:

    @Hitman.5829 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Hitman.5829 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Hitman.5829 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:
    Your math is bad and you should feel bad...
    the 25 PVE and 75 PVP means that. The damage was reduced 75% for PVP but only 25% for PVE. The skill effects were split between game modes.
    And even then, what's with the 27/75 - 1... That's not how you make an average if that was your intention, and anything else is just incredibly misguided... They didn't say 25 out of 75 (that would make your calculations somewhat correct), they said 25% PVE to 75% PVP. With 25 to 75 the best you could do would be an average (which would be around 50).

    Your reading comprehension is obviously not great, so i'd suggest asking for some books for christmas...

    Oh man don't make me school you on math. I will make you look bad seriously! I have a master's degree on physics.

    I have one in Engineering. Appeals to authority don't really work, but you're correct though.

    You poor understanding on percentages is non existent and seriously you should not say math is wrong if you don't have a clue of what is going on.

    (27/75 - 1) is the damage lost by going from 75 of PvE to 25 of PvE. IT IS NOT HOW YOU CALCULATE AVERAGES!
    If you keep reading all my comments you should know that I calculated the nerf on FC this December patch.
    I know that not everyone has the gift of math and I am not judging, so for clarification going from 75% to 25% is not 75% - 25% = 50%
    Let X be the PvE damage, then 75% of PvE is:

    (X)(0.75)
    And 25% of PvE is:
    
    (X)(0.25)
    

    Therefore, the damage lost going from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE is:

    [(X)(0.25)/(X)(0.75) -1] * 100% = [(0.25/0.75) - 1] * 100%
    = -66.66%
    

    So, going from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE is not 50%, it is 66.66%

    Ok, my bad i misunderstood your intention, i only did a cursory reading, and did what i accused you of, i misinterpreted your text. I'll freely admit that.
    In that case you are correct. The overall reduction of damage for PVP is indeed 66%. The current damage is 33% of the previous.

    @steki.1478 said:
    He includes cooldown nerf as well., which doesnt mean the skill does less damage, it just does less dps. Those are two very different terms.

    No, Damage and damage per second are related by time! Suppose the cooldown was increased to 90000000000 seconds what is the damage nerf?
    it will be [(8/9x10^10) - 1] * 100 = -99.99%

    Damage per second change will be 99%, but damage per hit isn't changed by the cooldown.

    because you will not be able to cast the spell on a long cooldown and that is equivalent to a 99.99% nerf damage.

    On Damage Per Second, not per hit. There's a distinction there to be made, and while you're correct that it matters overall

    In cases like Full Counter damage per second isn't as important since it's used situationally. Although, it does mater, of course, and the cooldown is part of the balance and it's potential output, but damage per hit is more important due to the situational nature of it.

    As a physicist I have been trained to look outside the box and seek many examples to explain the same thing.
    Now let me use this simple example that everyone will understand.
    Suppose you earn X dollars in 8 hours, but then your boss tells you he is going to pay you X dollars in 12 hours.
    Obviously you are not going to be happy because you will have to work harder and get pay the same amount of money.

    In fact, the work ratio is 2:3

    So, the same thing applies to FC, with the 8 sec to 12 sec increase, warriors have to do 3 FC to equate 2 FC from the past.
    So oblivious there is a damage nerf of -33.33%

    Cooldown nerf != damage nerf. It's a dps nerf. You don't have dps rotations in pvp because defensive skills also play a big role in your "skill rotation".

    If skill hits for 3k once per 10 seconds or once per year it still does 3k damage. Your "total skill damage" is still 3k, but your total damage over 8+ seconds time interval, also known as DPS, will be lower.

    I appreciate the enthusiasm for participation, but please refrain from posting if you don't know what 2:3 means.
    I want this post to be clear about the -83% damage nerf.

    You don't work for your skill cooldown, you wait for it. Waiting isnt damage nerf. Waiting isnt effort. Waiting is dps loss. Your analogy is a bit off.

    Wouldn't a dps loss be a damage nerf?

    #nornmodeisbestmode

  • @Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Hitman.5829 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Hitman.5829 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Hitman.5829 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:
    Your math is bad and you should feel bad...
    the 25 PVE and 75 PVP means that. The damage was reduced 75% for PVP but only 25% for PVE. The skill effects were split between game modes.
    And even then, what's with the 27/75 - 1... That's not how you make an average if that was your intention, and anything else is just incredibly misguided... They didn't say 25 out of 75 (that would make your calculations somewhat correct), they said 25% PVE to 75% PVP. With 25 to 75 the best you could do would be an average (which would be around 50).

    Your reading comprehension is obviously not great, so i'd suggest asking for some books for christmas...

    Oh man don't make me school you on math. I will make you look bad seriously! I have a master's degree on physics.

    I have one in Engineering. Appeals to authority don't really work, but you're correct though.

    You poor understanding on percentages is non existent and seriously you should not say math is wrong if you don't have a clue of what is going on.

    (27/75 - 1) is the damage lost by going from 75 of PvE to 25 of PvE. IT IS NOT HOW YOU CALCULATE AVERAGES!
    If you keep reading all my comments you should know that I calculated the nerf on FC this December patch.
    I know that not everyone has the gift of math and I am not judging, so for clarification going from 75% to 25% is not 75% - 25% = 50%
    Let X be the PvE damage, then 75% of PvE is:

    (X)(0.75)
    And 25% of PvE is:
    
    (X)(0.25)
    

    Therefore, the damage lost going from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE is:

    [(X)(0.25)/(X)(0.75) -1] * 100% = [(0.25/0.75) - 1] * 100%
    = -66.66%
    

    So, going from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE is not 50%, it is 66.66%

    Ok, my bad i misunderstood your intention, i only did a cursory reading, and did what i accused you of, i misinterpreted your text. I'll freely admit that.
    In that case you are correct. The overall reduction of damage for PVP is indeed 66%. The current damage is 33% of the previous.

    @steki.1478 said:
    He includes cooldown nerf as well., which doesnt mean the skill does less damage, it just does less dps. Those are two very different terms.

    No, Damage and damage per second are related by time! Suppose the cooldown was increased to 90000000000 seconds what is the damage nerf?
    it will be [(8/9x10^10) - 1] * 100 = -99.99%

    Damage per second change will be 99%, but damage per hit isn't changed by the cooldown.

    because you will not be able to cast the spell on a long cooldown and that is equivalent to a 99.99% nerf damage.

    On Damage Per Second, not per hit. There's a distinction there to be made, and while you're correct that it matters overall

    In cases like Full Counter damage per second isn't as important since it's used situationally. Although, it does mater, of course, and the cooldown is part of the balance and it's potential output, but damage per hit is more important due to the situational nature of it.

    As a physicist I have been trained to look outside the box and seek many examples to explain the same thing.
    Now let me use this simple example that everyone will understand.
    Suppose you earn X dollars in 8 hours, but then your boss tells you he is going to pay you X dollars in 12 hours.
    Obviously you are not going to be happy because you will have to work harder and get pay the same amount of money.

    In fact, the work ratio is 2:3

    So, the same thing applies to FC, with the 8 sec to 12 sec increase, warriors have to do 3 FC to equate 2 FC from the past.
    So oblivious there is a damage nerf of -33.33%

    Cooldown nerf != damage nerf. It's a dps nerf. You don't have dps rotations in pvp because defensive skills also play a big role in your "skill rotation".

    If skill hits for 3k once per 10 seconds or once per year it still does 3k damage. Your "total skill damage" is still 3k, but your total damage over 8+ seconds time interval, also known as DPS, will be lower.

    I appreciate the enthusiasm for participation, but please refrain from posting if you don't know what 2:3 means.
    I want this post to be clear about the -83% damage nerf.

    You don't work for your skill cooldown, you wait for it. Waiting isnt damage nerf. Waiting isnt effort. Waiting is dps loss. Your analogy is a bit off.

    Wouldn't a dps loss be a damage nerf?

    yes, dps is just a measure of damage.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 17, 2018

    @Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Hitman.5829 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Hitman.5829 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Hitman.5829 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:
    Your math is bad and you should feel bad...
    the 25 PVE and 75 PVP means that. The damage was reduced 75% for PVP but only 25% for PVE. The skill effects were split between game modes.
    And even then, what's with the 27/75 - 1... That's not how you make an average if that was your intention, and anything else is just incredibly misguided... They didn't say 25 out of 75 (that would make your calculations somewhat correct), they said 25% PVE to 75% PVP. With 25 to 75 the best you could do would be an average (which would be around 50).

    Your reading comprehension is obviously not great, so i'd suggest asking for some books for christmas...

    Oh man don't make me school you on math. I will make you look bad seriously! I have a master's degree on physics.

    I have one in Engineering. Appeals to authority don't really work, but you're correct though.

    You poor understanding on percentages is non existent and seriously you should not say math is wrong if you don't have a clue of what is going on.

    (27/75 - 1) is the damage lost by going from 75 of PvE to 25 of PvE. IT IS NOT HOW YOU CALCULATE AVERAGES!
    If you keep reading all my comments you should know that I calculated the nerf on FC this December patch.
    I know that not everyone has the gift of math and I am not judging, so for clarification going from 75% to 25% is not 75% - 25% = 50%
    Let X be the PvE damage, then 75% of PvE is:

    (X)(0.75)
    And 25% of PvE is:
    
    (X)(0.25)
    

    Therefore, the damage lost going from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE is:

    [(X)(0.25)/(X)(0.75) -1] * 100% = [(0.25/0.75) - 1] * 100%
    = -66.66%
    

    So, going from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE is not 50%, it is 66.66%

    Ok, my bad i misunderstood your intention, i only did a cursory reading, and did what i accused you of, i misinterpreted your text. I'll freely admit that.
    In that case you are correct. The overall reduction of damage for PVP is indeed 66%. The current damage is 33% of the previous.

    @steki.1478 said:
    He includes cooldown nerf as well., which doesnt mean the skill does less damage, it just does less dps. Those are two very different terms.

    No, Damage and damage per second are related by time! Suppose the cooldown was increased to 90000000000 seconds what is the damage nerf?
    it will be [(8/9x10^10) - 1] * 100 = -99.99%

    Damage per second change will be 99%, but damage per hit isn't changed by the cooldown.

    because you will not be able to cast the spell on a long cooldown and that is equivalent to a 99.99% nerf damage.

    On Damage Per Second, not per hit. There's a distinction there to be made, and while you're correct that it matters overall

    In cases like Full Counter damage per second isn't as important since it's used situationally. Although, it does mater, of course, and the cooldown is part of the balance and it's potential output, but damage per hit is more important due to the situational nature of it.

    As a physicist I have been trained to look outside the box and seek many examples to explain the same thing.
    Now let me use this simple example that everyone will understand.
    Suppose you earn X dollars in 8 hours, but then your boss tells you he is going to pay you X dollars in 12 hours.
    Obviously you are not going to be happy because you will have to work harder and get pay the same amount of money.

    In fact, the work ratio is 2:3

    So, the same thing applies to FC, with the 8 sec to 12 sec increase, warriors have to do 3 FC to equate 2 FC from the past.
    So oblivious there is a damage nerf of -33.33%

    Cooldown nerf != damage nerf. It's a dps nerf. You don't have dps rotations in pvp because defensive skills also play a big role in your "skill rotation".

    If skill hits for 3k once per 10 seconds or once per year it still does 3k damage. Your "total skill damage" is still 3k, but your total damage over 8+ seconds time interval, also known as DPS, will be lower.

    I appreciate the enthusiasm for participation, but please refrain from posting if you don't know what 2:3 means.
    I want this post to be clear about the -83% damage nerf.

    You don't work for your skill cooldown, you wait for it. Waiting isnt damage nerf. Waiting isnt effort. Waiting is dps loss. Your analogy is a bit off.

    Wouldn't a dps loss be a damage nerf?

    Not necessarily. If you can kill someone in 5 seconds, it doesnt mean that you're doing less damage than before cooldown* nerf. Your FC would still do same damage per cast, you just cant cast it as often as before (different dps, but same damage per cast). Burst in pvp is much more important than constant dps because players dont have high health pools like pve bosses. Pvp players also dont spam dps skills on cooldown, they use them situationally, to set up a burst or use defensive ones to defend against one.

    (Non related to FC nerf) There's no point of hitting a skill for 5k on a 10k HP enemy when everything else is on cooldown when you can wait extra 2 seconds and stun+hit them for 15k and down them. Dps doesnt matter there because your target is downed, but the damage output does. Not the damage you do over 30 seconds of enemy healing over and over again, but the damage you do in short amount of time resulting enemy dying.

    While cooldown nerfs do reduce your ability to down/kill enemies more often, they are not damage nerfs because you can still do the same burst combos every time your skills are ready and pvp is not a 100% dps uptime battle like pve.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 17, 2018

    DPS = damage / second.

    Damage nerf = dps nerf. Cooldown nerf = dps nerf.

    DPS nerf isnt a cause, it's a consequence.

    Damage has nothing to do with cooldowns, it's 2 completely different terms.

  • @steki.1478 said:
    DPS = damage / second.

    Damage nerf = dps nerf. Cooldown nerf = dps nerf.

    DPS nerf isnt a cause, it's a consequence.

    Damage has nothing to do with cooldowns, it's 2 completely different terms.

    Damage per second is damage..... its literally what damage per second means.
    its the damage that can be done in a second, therefore it is damage, as damage is a measure of damage while dps is a measure of damage.

  • Hitman.5829Hitman.5829 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 17, 2018

    I appreciate the effort to explain things to steki.1478, but please lets not clog the post with simple explanations. We are not here to explain 1 + 1 = 2.
    If he does not see it, it is his problem and we are not here to babysit and spend a full quarter explaining:

    • D/t = rate of change of damage with respect to time
    • 2:3 ratios
      I appreciate all of those who do really take this post seriously.

    Charr Warrior Master Race!
    Black Gate Beast Roamer chicken chaser!

  • me i just dont wanna lose 90 % of my hp bar in 1 attack. The scholar rune + getting a buff from a warhorn switch for a 2 hand weapon and just using all cd and 1 one shotting someone is not something that should happen in pvp . The only reason i could accept to get 1 shotted is if someone cast for 5 sec and i dont notice him or am cc and i get 1 shotted. When someone use all is cd+ warhorn also the fact warhorn make you immune to cc while giving a damage buff as soulbeast is an atrocity. So your saying that he ,while using this will be able to run away and also if i get close to him he will do an insane amount of damage to me (90 % of my hp bar)

    Congrats you press all your button correctly and you one shot me. Too bad you didt react to what i was doing and outplayed me butYou won the guitar hero game

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭

    @kiranslee.4829 said:
    I agree on on 83% , but you named it wrong , it is Little Daze, not Full Counter.

    Lil'Counter.

  • i haves a good question in this. ok i started to play war dagger dagger recently becouse i needed something new. i do play lots of wvw with my war at the moment mainly with daggers. for the most part i see that with the fc i bring most players between 50% and 25% hp is this right for the damage of fc right now or am i just geting lucky with the counters? i have also noticed i can one shot like 10 players when they down stat with one fc also is this normal with the new changes?

  • so my experiance is not normal then i wonder if that is becouse im run in full zerker gear the? now ill say this it is saying my full counter is only doing like 386 in blue righting when i look at so i wonder if im not geting the new changes?

  • Loboling.5293Loboling.5293 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 19, 2018

    @Miko.4158 said:
    yes, with the nerf to wod, It looks like new elites are on the way.
    buy or die

    Oh kitten does that mean they are going to nerf renegade into uselessness... Oh wait.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Belishine.7493 said:
    i haves a good question in this. ok i started to play war dagger dagger recently becouse i needed something new. i do play lots of wvw with my war at the moment mainly with daggers. for the most part i see that with the fc i bring most players between 50% and 25% hp is this right for the damage of fc right now or am i just geting lucky with the counters? i have also noticed i can one shot like 10 players when they down stat with one fc also is this normal with the new changes?

    Are you on drugs? Fc in pvp does like 1,5k and in wvw its like max 3k on full zerker gear

  • @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Belishine.7493 said:
    i haves a good question in this. ok i started to play war dagger dagger recently becouse i needed something new. i do play lots of wvw with my war at the moment mainly with daggers. for the most part i see that with the fc i bring most players between 50% and 25% hp is this right for the damage of fc right now or am i just geting lucky with the counters? i have also noticed i can one shot like 10 players when they down stat with one fc also is this normal with the new changes?

    Are you on drugs? Fc in pvp does like 1,5k and in wvw its like max 3k on full zerker gear

    3k on a full zerk ele sure, vs all the other classes the higher ive seen is 1.2k to 2k at most.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @supFrag.1536 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Belishine.7493 said:
    i haves a good question in this. ok i started to play war dagger dagger recently becouse i needed something new. i do play lots of wvw with my war at the moment mainly with daggers. for the most part i see that with the fc i bring most players between 50% and 25% hp is this right for the damage of fc right now or am i just geting lucky with the counters? i have also noticed i can one shot like 10 players when they down stat with one fc also is this normal with the new changes?

    Are you on drugs? Fc in pvp does like 1,5k and in wvw its like max 3k on full zerker gear

    3k on a full zerk ele sure, vs all the other classes the higher ive seen is 1.2k to 2k at most.

    thats why i said "MAX" 3k...which is already sad anyways.

    Belishine.7493 claims that he does 50-75% of enemies health just with fullcounter is ridiculous, that was my point btw. we all know that fc dmg is one of the lowest nowadays, but his claim....???

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rysdude.3824 said:
    So essentially now its just a block with a 1.5 daze, as a profession mechanic?

    With 360, 10.5 sec CD, unblockable, that removes a boon on CC and copy 3 condis traited. It still does too much as it currently stands. It is a block. It is not supposed to do much else.

  • @RedShark.9548 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Rysdude.3824 said:
    So essentially now its just a block with a 1.5 daze, as a profession mechanic?

    With 360, 10.5 sec CD, unblockable, that removes a boon on CC and copy 3 condis traited. It still does too much as it currently stands. It is a block. It is not supposed to do much else.

    it is a COUNTER. it has to be punishing, if someone hits into it.
    right now it doesnt even kill off mesmer clones lol.
    the cc is a joke with all the stab flying around.
    the copied condis wont do kitten, because their dmg is based on the warriors condition dmg and not the enemies, who applied them in the first place and is specced for them to hurt. it would be good if it would transfer them, but its just a copy.

    Personally I would like to see the trait that copies conditions reworked, because copying conditions is usually. Literally puts like 40 damage per second burn stacks on the enemy LOL.

    Full Counter does hardly anything, actually.

  • Hitman.5829Hitman.5829 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Rysdude.3824 said:
    So essentially now its just a block with a 1.5 daze, as a profession mechanic?

    With 360, 10.5 sec CD, unblockable, that removes a boon on CC and copy 3 condis traited. It still does too much as it currently stands. It is a block. It is not supposed to do much else.

    if its not supposed to do much else then why reduce 3 bars of adrenaline and make busts do minimum damage?
    Going from core warrior to Spellbreaker we have lost lost benefits in:

    • Berserker's Power
    • Cleansing Ire
    • Adrenal Health

    And now, we lost even more with 83% nerf to FC.

    Charr Warrior Master Race!
    Black Gate Beast Roamer chicken chaser!

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hitman.5829 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Rysdude.3824 said:
    So essentially now its just a block with a 1.5 daze, as a profession mechanic?

    With 360, 10.5 sec CD, unblockable, that removes a boon on CC and copy 3 condis traited. It still does too much as it currently stands. It is a block. It is not supposed to do much else.

    if its not supposed to do much else then why reduce 3 bars of adrenaline and make busts do minimum damage?
    Going from core warrior to Spellbreaker we have lost lost benefits in:

    • Berserker's Power
    • Cleansing Ire
    • Adrenal Health

    And now, we lost even more with 83% nerf to FC.

    And gained the ability to hit burst abilities back to back, and FC resets burst abilities. And for all purposes, SB burst works so much better with adernal health compared to core warrior. It takes longer to get to three stacks, but considering that burst attacks are much more frequent, it is much easier to maintain with much less counter-play.

    SB is so much better in PvP than core warrior and berserker by mile, even if FC does not deal any damage whatsoever. Trying to sell SB as a crippled elite hanging by FC damage is either absolute ignorance or hypocrisy.

    Also, every single elite build was nerfed last patch (except Soul Beast). SB was not singled out by any means, and remains meta.

  • enkidu.5937enkidu.5937 Member ✭✭✭

    Lull Counter . . . but the animation is still very impressing xD

  • Jugglemonkey.8741Jugglemonkey.8741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm a thief main, and seeing this nerf took a lot of the fun out of fighting good spellbreakers as now they basically can't punish me for being too aggressive, core does a much better job. Kinda sucks, visually spellbreaker and berserker look fantastic, they just have no teeth now.

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.

  • @Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Rysdude.3824 said:
    So essentially now its just a block with a 1.5 daze, as a profession mechanic?

    With 360, 10.5 sec CD, unblockable, that removes a boon on CC and copy 3 condis traited. It still does too much as it currently stands. It is a block. It is not supposed to do much else.

    its not a block at all. It only nullifies damage and is stable. Conditions and other effects still can be applied to the warrior, the stability keeps them from being CCed, but its only one stack and there is enough time for teams t dispel the stability and then cc before the counter goes off.

    As Cloud said it's not a block it's a burst skill, even says so in the description. Bursts are supposed to do damage.

    #nornmodeisbestmode

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2018

    @Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

    @Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Rysdude.3824 said:
    So essentially now its just a block with a 1.5 daze, as a profession mechanic?

    With 360, 10.5 sec CD, unblockable, that removes a boon on CC and copy 3 condis traited. It still does too much as it currently stands. It is a block. It is not supposed to do much else.

    its not a block at all. It only nullifies damage and is stable. Conditions and other effects still can be applied to the warrior, the stability keeps them from being CCed, but its only one stack and there is enough time for teams t dispel the stability and then cc before the counter goes off.

    As Cloud said it's not a block it's a burst skill, even says so in the description. Bursts are supposed to do damage.

    Anet wanted it to be a skill used for defensive purpose only,they should have just give use some damage back in return on weap sets,since i dont really mind counter doing less damage,but were not being compensated in return.

  • @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

    @Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Rysdude.3824 said:
    So essentially now its just a block with a 1.5 daze, as a profession mechanic?

    With 360, 10.5 sec CD, unblockable, that removes a boon on CC and copy 3 condis traited. It still does too much as it currently stands. It is a block. It is not supposed to do much else.

    its not a block at all. It only nullifies damage and is stable. Conditions and other effects still can be applied to the warrior, the stability keeps them from being CCed, but its only one stack and there is enough time for teams t dispel the stability and then cc before the counter goes off.

    As Cloud said it's not a block it's a burst skill, even says so in the description. Bursts are supposed to do damage.

    Anet wanted it to be a skill used for defensive purpose only

    that is a hell of a statement, got anything to back that up?

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

    @Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Rysdude.3824 said:
    So essentially now its just a block with a 1.5 daze, as a profession mechanic?

    With 360, 10.5 sec CD, unblockable, that removes a boon on CC and copy 3 condis traited. It still does too much as it currently stands. It is a block. It is not supposed to do much else.

    its not a block at all. It only nullifies damage and is stable. Conditions and other effects still can be applied to the warrior, the stability keeps them from being CCed, but its only one stack and there is enough time for teams t dispel the stability and then cc before the counter goes off.

    As Cloud said it's not a block it's a burst skill, even says so in the description. Bursts are supposed to do damage.

    Anet wanted it to be a skill used for defensive purpose only

    that is a hell of a statement, got anything to back that up?

    Anet patch notes: “FC has different uses in competitive game modes compared to PvE.” They did not say it out right here, but they nerfed it’s damage by 75%. It is crystal clear that they are eluding to FC to be a dps skill in PvE and block/CC in PvP.

  • gimo.3281gimo.3281 Member ✭✭
    edited December 20, 2018

    @Hitman.5829 said:

    @zionophir.6845 said:
    that means get the 75% of FC damage in PvE and subtract 50% of FC damage in PvE.

    I know that not everyone has the gift of math and I am not judging, so for clarification going from 75% to 25% is not 75% - 25% = 50%
    Let X be the PvE damage, then 75% of PvE is:

    • (X)(0.75)
      And 25% of PvE is:

    • (X)(0.25)

    Therefore, the damage lost going from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE is:

    • [(X)(0.25)/(X)(0.75) -1] * 100% = [(0.25/0.75) - 1] * 100%
    • = -66.66%

    So, going from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE is not 50%, it is 66.66%

    check the history of FC if it was split game mode wise [PvE ~ PvP/WvW]. then go from there to get the numbers.

    mmmm did you read my previous posts? I posted them with exact nerf damage
    The calculated TOTAL damage nerfed FC since launch is -83%

    [(1 - 0.125)(1 - 0.33)(1 - 0.14)*(1 - 0.66) - 1] * 100% = - 83%

    • October 17 (Reduce damage by 12.5% in PvP and WvW only.)
    • November 7 (Increased recharge from 8 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP and WvW only.) This is equivalent to a 33% damage reduction (8/12 -1)*100% = 33%
    • March 27 (Reduced damage by 14% in PvP and WvW.)
    • December 11 (reduced from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE.) (-66.66% damage nerf)

    And just to add as a curiosity note: Do you know by how much damage they will have to buff FC to bring it back to its original version?
    By 497% YES THAT IS CORRECT!
    Percentages are not something to be mess with! That is why when you lose money in the stock market, it is very difficult to earn back what you lost.
    How did I calculate 497% here is the equation:
    let X be the percent damage increase to bring FC back to normal, then:
    [(1 - 0.125)(1 - 0.33)(1 - 0.14)*(1 - 0.66)(1 + X) - 1] * 100% =0%

    Solving for X gives 4.97 which is 497%

    lel. don't justify your bork bork math. how many is lost when you go from .75 to .25? even a gradeschooler knows that.

  • @otto.5684 said:

    @Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

    @Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Rysdude.3824 said:
    So essentially now its just a block with a 1.5 daze, as a profession mechanic?

    With 360, 10.5 sec CD, unblockable, that removes a boon on CC and copy 3 condis traited. It still does too much as it currently stands. It is a block. It is not supposed to do much else.

    its not a block at all. It only nullifies damage and is stable. Conditions and other effects still can be applied to the warrior, the stability keeps them from being CCed, but its only one stack and there is enough time for teams t dispel the stability and then cc before the counter goes off.

    As Cloud said it's not a block it's a burst skill, even says so in the description. Bursts are supposed to do damage.

    Anet wanted it to be a skill used for defensive purpose only

    that is a hell of a statement, got anything to back that up?

    Anet patch notes: “FC has different uses in competitive game modes compared to PvE.” They did not say it out right here, but they nerfed it’s damage by 75%. It is crystal clear that they are eluding to FC to be a dps skill in PvE and block/CC in PvP.

    If it were a defensive skill they'd have upped the evade, the length of time the counter attack is waiting. Or something along those lines, not lengthening the CC. Lengthening the CC is an offensive thing. What they think the skill is in competitive modes is something to stop your enemy and start a counteroffensive, but the problem is that with the amount of stability and stun breaks the CC is meaningless. So the short CC to disrupt the enemy with damage was the better answer because of the meta we're currently in, and the CC will probably end up doing nothing.

    #nornmodeisbestmode

  • Hitman.5829Hitman.5829 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @gimo.3281 said:

    @Hitman.5829 said:

    @zionophir.6845 said:
    that means get the 75% of FC damage in PvE and subtract 50% of FC damage in PvE.

    I know that not everyone has the gift of math and I am not judging, so for clarification going from 75% to 25% is not 75% - 25% = 50%
    Let X be the PvE damage, then 75% of PvE is:

    • (X)(0.75)
      And 25% of PvE is:

    • (X)(0.25)

    Therefore, the damage lost going from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE is:

    • [(X)(0.25)/(X)(0.75) -1] * 100% = [(0.25/0.75) - 1] * 100%
    • = -66.66%

    So, going from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE is not 50%, it is 66.66%

    check the history of FC if it was split game mode wise [PvE ~ PvP/WvW]. then go from there to get the numbers.

    mmmm did you read my previous posts? I posted them with exact nerf damage
    The calculated TOTAL damage nerfed FC since launch is -83%

    [(1 - 0.125)(1 - 0.33)(1 - 0.14)*(1 - 0.66) - 1] * 100% = - 83%

    • October 17 (Reduce damage by 12.5% in PvP and WvW only.)
    • November 7 (Increased recharge from 8 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP and WvW only.) This is equivalent to a 33% damage reduction (8/12 -1)*100% = 33%
    • March 27 (Reduced damage by 14% in PvP and WvW.)
    • December 11 (reduced from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE.) (-66.66% damage nerf)

    And just to add as a curiosity note: Do you know by how much damage they will have to buff FC to bring it back to its original version?
    By 497% YES THAT IS CORRECT!
    Percentages are not something to be mess with! That is why when you lose money in the stock market, it is very difficult to earn back what you lost.
    How did I calculate 497% here is the equation:
    let X be the percent damage increase to bring FC back to normal, then:
    [(1 - 0.125)(1 - 0.33)(1 - 0.14)*(1 - 0.66)(1 + X) - 1] * 100% =0%

    Solving for X gives 4.97 which is 497%

    lel. don't justify your bork bork math. how many is lost when you go from .75 to .25? even a gradeschooler knows that.

    Well, tell us Einstein. "How many" is lost when you go from .75 to .25?

    Charr Warrior Master Race!
    Black Gate Beast Roamer chicken chaser!

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

    @Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Rysdude.3824 said:
    So essentially now its just a block with a 1.5 daze, as a profession mechanic?

    With 360, 10.5 sec CD, unblockable, that removes a boon on CC and copy 3 condis traited. It still does too much as it currently stands. It is a block. It is not supposed to do much else.

    its not a block at all. It only nullifies damage and is stable. Conditions and other effects still can be applied to the warrior, the stability keeps them from being CCed, but its only one stack and there is enough time for teams t dispel the stability and then cc before the counter goes off.

    As Cloud said it's not a block it's a burst skill, even says so in the description. Bursts are supposed to do damage.

    Anet wanted it to be a skill used for defensive purpose only

    that is a hell of a statement, got anything to back that up?

    Anet patch notes: “FC has different uses in competitive game modes compared to PvE.” They did not say it out right here, but they nerfed it’s damage by 75%. It is crystal clear that they are eluding to FC to be a dps skill in PvE and block/CC in PvP.

    If it were a defensive skill they'd have upped the evade, the length of time the counter attack is waiting. Or something along those lines, not lengthening the CC. Lengthening the CC is an offensive thing. What they think the skill is in competitive modes is something to stop your enemy and start a counteroffensive, but the problem is that with the amount of stability and stun breaks the CC is meaningless. So the short CC to disrupt the enemy with damage was the better answer because of the meta we're currently in, and the CC will probably end up doing nothing.

    Okay then. Let’s remove the block and CC and make it only deal damage (it will be nearly useless). Again, clearly Anet wants the skills in PvP to be used as a block and CC (call it whatever you want). Is the change warranted? Abosolutey.

    You can sit here and try to spin all the stories you want about how the damage of FC is essential. It is not true and Anet also does not agree. And honestly, it does not impact SB viability.

  • Hitman.5829Hitman.5829 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2018

    @gimo.3281 said:

    @Hitman.5829 said:

    @gimo.3281 said:

    @Hitman.5829 said:

    @zionophir.6845 said:
    that means get the 75% of FC damage in PvE and subtract 50% of FC damage in PvE.

    I know that not everyone has the gift of math and I am not judging, so for clarification going from 75% to 25% is not 75% - 25% = 50%
    Let X be the PvE damage, then 75% of PvE is:

    • (X)(0.75)
      And 25% of PvE is:

    • (X)(0.25)

    Therefore, the damage lost going from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE is:

    • [(X)(0.25)/(X)(0.75) -1] * 100% = [(0.25/0.75) - 1] * 100%
    • = -66.66%

    So, going from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE is not 50%, it is 66.66%

    check the history of FC if it was split game mode wise [PvE ~ PvP/WvW]. then go from there to get the numbers.

    mmmm did you read my previous posts? I posted them with exact nerf damage
    The calculated TOTAL damage nerfed FC since launch is -83%

    [(1 - 0.125)(1 - 0.33)(1 - 0.14)*(1 - 0.66) - 1] * 100% = - 83%

    • October 17 (Reduce damage by 12.5% in PvP and WvW only.)
    • November 7 (Increased recharge from 8 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP and WvW only.) This is equivalent to a 33% damage reduction (8/12 -1)*100% = 33%
    • March 27 (Reduced damage by 14% in PvP and WvW.)
    • December 11 (reduced from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE.) (-66.66% damage nerf)

    And just to add as a curiosity note: Do you know by how much damage they will have to buff FC to bring it back to its original version?
    By 497% YES THAT IS CORRECT!
    Percentages are not something to be mess with! That is why when you lose money in the stock market, it is very difficult to earn back what you lost.
    How did I calculate 497% here is the equation:
    let X be the percent damage increase to bring FC back to normal, then:
    [(1 - 0.125)(1 - 0.33)(1 - 0.14)*(1 - 0.66)(1 + X) - 1] * 100% =0%

    Solving for X gives 4.97 which is 497%

    lel. don't justify your bork bork math. how many is lost when you go from .75 to .25? even a gradeschooler knows that.

    Well, tell us Einstein. "How many" is lost when you go from .75 to .25?

    ask a gradeschooler for the answer. sorry, im busy typing something on my notepad..

    (after 5 mins)

    k. to ease your burden coz you might be mistaken for a pedo when you go to a gradeschoolers' school. say pve damage is 1.

    so from .75 of 1 to .25 of 1. so do that easy process, so easy that even a plastic bottle can give you 5 cents, and you should know the answer....

    Well, I just hope you are not working as a cashier or your boss might fire you for incompetence!

    Charr Warrior Master Race!
    Black Gate Beast Roamer chicken chaser!

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