A Note on Future Boon Direction

[Etterwyn.5263]

I want every PVP stat available for PVE. Then we can pick and choose ourselves. :)

[Laila Lightness.8742]

Honestly at this point boons should not affect this much of gameplay its 1 mech whos so irreplaceable its bad

[Novus Angellite.6589]

After several days of this change, I ended up ultimately quitting the support build I spent 5 months learning how to play correctly and spent an entire morning burning up all my gold to change into DPS.

The change is noticeable in Raids, but not quite the end of the world; but my goodness is it ever present in Fractals--especially with those who haven't read the recent patch updates and cannot grasp the idea that I cannot share my boons like I used to.

Yesterday was the first time I ever actually started crying during fractals because of the verbal abuse for not doing my job correctly: for not sharing my quickness, stability and alacrity--the three most vital boons to share. No one will hold still for my wells. No one even holds still for Time Warp. Holding still in a lot of these fractals means instant death. The stress of seeing that only half my group is going to benefit from the incoming SoI activation while the other half has no boons at all or just one is too much.

Seize the Moment is useless. Bountiful Disillusionment is useless. SoI is useless. Wells are useless. It's all broken completely. Boonshare Chrono has been turned into Boonhoard Chrono.

If it wasn't for the amount of money I spent on bag slots on my first and primary character, I'd delete him and start over as a different class.

This isn't fun anymore, and the only thing I have to fall back on is learning how to be a power chrono all over again and hoping that people will actually take me in on Fractals and Raids again without turning up their noses because a different class offers better DPS than I ever could hope to accomplish.

[Krieger.4712]

New stats won't fix the dumpster fire you've made power Berserker into.

[Ithilwen.1529]

This is long overedue. Good job ANET. Now extend that to conditions as well. Start with making Alacrity Chronomancer only as originally intended.

[Swiftwynd.1685]

If the primary goal is improving support viability and over all group build diversity, three things need to be achieved:

1. Critically important boons need to have at least two or three "viable" output professions/elite specializations.

2. Profession-specific auras (Spotter, Empower Allies) and Profession-specific utilities (Banners, Spirits) need to be diversified onto multiple profession while not stacking, and made "baseline" as minor traits.

Those are the two "biggest" issues with raid composition diversity at this time.

Here is an example of how you could fix both issues, first by showing how to diversify the profession auras by applying it to commonly taken dps lines in base professions AND by incorporating each into at least one Elite specialization minor trait as well to ensure a variety of professions can be brought to cover the effect:

• "Spotter" - Increases precision for 10 allies. This is now added into the Minor traits on Ranger (Hunter's Tactics), Deadeye (Iron Sight), and Dragon Hunter (Pure of Sight).
• Empowered Allies renamed "Empower" - Increases power for 10 allies. This is now added into the Minor traits on Warrior (Versatile Power in Discipline), Scrapper (Decisive Renown), and Reaper (Shroud Knight).
• "Assassin's Presence" renamed "Lethality" - Increases ferocity for 10 allies. This is now added into the Minor traits on Revenant (Ferocious Aggression in Invocation), Holosmith (Laser's Edge), and Soulbeast (Furious Strength).
• "Pinpoint Distribution" renamed "Entropy" - Increases condition damage for 10 allies. This is now added into the Minor traits on Engineer (Hematic Focus), Scourge (Sand Sage), and Firebrand (Swift Scholar)
• "Empathy" new aura - Increases Healing Power and incoming healing received for 10 allies. This is now added into the Minor trait on Necromancer (Last Rites in Blood), Tempest (Hardy Conduit), and Herald (Reinforced Potency)
• "Strenght in Numbers" aura replaced with "Stalwart" - Increases Vitality for 10 allies. This is now added into the Minor traits on Guardian (Inspired Virtue in Virtues), Daredevil (Driven Fortitude), and weaver (Elemental Refreshment).

For the Spirits and Banners, they would be merged and a third option would be available. As such, the ranger, warrior, and engineer professions would become be a source for these effects. They would have relative differences that keep them distinct, but largely would be interchangeable with each other and would not stack.

Banners - Stationary once dropped, unable to be destroyed, effects a wide area 900.

• Banner of Strength now receives the Sun spirit's burning effect.
• Banner of discipline now receive's the Frost spirit's effect.
• Banner of Defense now receive's the Stone spirits effect, which is changed to a constant 10% damage reduction.

Spirits - Mobile and follow the ranger, unable to be destroyed, effects a smaller area 450. All spirits now apply the stat buffs of the banners.

• Frost applies Discipline
• Sun applies Strength
• Stone applies Defense
• Storm applies Tactics.

Turrets - Immobile, can be destroyed, but effects largest area 1,200 of all three types. Each receives the banner and spirit effects:

• Rifle Turret gains Discipline and Frost
• Flame Turret gains Strength and Sun
• Net Turret gains Storm and Tactics
• Thumper Turret gains Stone and Defense

With the above, engineers, rangers, or warriors can be brought to a raid to cover all of these effects as needed, and it would work with many different build types, from dps build slotting out one utility, to full on support builds that bring a full bar of each.

Lastly, Boon diversification would be the final step. It would be important to ensure that a combination of different elite specializations and professions could provide the essential boons a squad needs, while some specific elite specializations should be "special" for providing specific boons.

Quickness and Alacrity

Chronomancer- only profession able to simultaneously provide Quickness and Alacrity to 5 people by itself. Timewarp is removed from the game and replaced with a new elite, and Chronomancer's ability to provide 5 man quickness is improved.

Firebrand - only profession able to provide 10 man Quickness with ease

Renegade - only profession able to provide 10 man Alacrity

Scrapper - would now be able to provide 5 man Alacrity.

Tempest - would now be able to provide 5 man Quickness.

25 MightHerald, Druid, Tempest, Deadeye and Scourge would be able to maintain squad wide 25 Might on 10 players.

Warriors, Engineers, Renegades, and Guardians would be able to maintain 25 might on 5 allies.

FuryDruids, Heralds, and Deadeyes would be able to maintain squad wide Fury on 10 players (Tempest as well if traited).

Warriors, Rangers, Elementalist and Thief would be able to maintain Fury on 5 players.

VigorTempests and Scourge would be able to maintain squad wide vigor on 10 players. (Druid would lose this)

ProtectionTempest and Herald would be the only profession able to maintain squad wide protection on 10 players (druid would lose this)

ResistanceRevenant would be the only profession able to apply 10 man Resistance (via some changes to Mallyx and the trait line)Firebrand and Necromancer would gain better options for 5 man Resistance.

RegenerationDruid, Tempest, and Herald would be the only professions with 10 man regeneration options.

AegisFirebrand would be the only profession with 10 man Aegis options.Scrapper, Guardian, and Chronomancer would have 5 man options.

StabilityGuardian would be the only profession with 10 man stability options, while plenty of other professions would provide 5 man stability.

RetaliationScrapper would be the only profession with 10 man Retaliation options.Guardian and Revenant would have better 5 man Retaliation options.

Lastly, on top of everything above, you would have some professions that work well at extending existing boons, and the boon extending effect would be enhanced by boon duration:

• Tempest - strong 5 man boon extending. Warhorn 4 Earth is enhanced to 4 seconds base, 8 second total with maximum boon duration.

• Mesmer - SoI lowered to 2 seconds but now effects 10 allies baseline. Trait increases it to 3 seconds. Max potential of 6 seconds boon extended if full boon duration. (due to chronos ability to use it multiple times)

• Herald - F2 (Glint) increased to 10 allies while traited with True nature. Base duration increased to 4 seconds, traited duration to 6 seconds. Max potential is 12 seconds with full boon duration on 10 allies. (this is Herald's niche, being the ultimate boon helper elite specialization.)

These changes would vastly diversify potential squad compositions for raids, and even WvW as well. It would be more able playing what professions you like, rather than "needing" one specific hard composition. It would allow for a variety of professions to fill in any missing gaps, while also preventing a "just use one best dps profession as a full squad" as having a variety of profession provides more total coverage for boons and stat buffs.

[Jski.6180]

@ Swiftwynd.1685Looks goods but would you go though and changes all the skill and effects on classes to fit with your ideal. There a lot of "free" lower end boons classes get it tends to mess up any ideal of splitting boons from class to class.

[Swiftwynd.1685]

@Jski.6180 said:@ Swiftwynd.1685Looks goods but would you go though and changes all the skill and effects on classes to fit with your ideal. There a lot of "free" lower end boons classes get it tends to mess up any ideal of splitting boons from class to class.

Its more about "what boons do they give out" than what do they generate themself. A Maleficent Seven deadeye generating their own boons is balanced and fine, but old chaos chrono obviously wasnt.

My list is more of a "these professions/e. specs should be able to maintain them on their 5 or 10 man party easily."

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

On the one hand, I think it would be interesting if a lot of classes had specific boons that they could easily give to other teammates. Necromancers could pulse out barrier, Revenants send out life leech, Guardians send out stability, etc. and so on.

On the other hand... the game really isn't built to do this. The problem with displacing the chronomancer is that the game's high end PVE content was built on the back of the chronomancer. Day one you could pulse out permanent alacrity with 3 shield phantasms, and in combination with old-fashioned SoI you could give everyone permanent quickness. On a full Berserker build. Hence, why all of the raids and CM fractals were balanced assuming that you would have permanent alacrity and quickness. Chronotank + healer + DPS chrono + 7 other DPS was standard makeup for all of the raids for a reason.

Boon application is being nerfed across the board, requiring more investment in concentration in order to get permanent upkeep. This, alongside of spreading out boons to different professions, creates a problem: We can't have good DPS anymore. We have to throw all of our stats into spreading out boons. The Firebrand + Renegade combo, while still somehow doing less than a single chronobuffer, takes up more slots and does less overall damage. As it stands now. In the future, we might need more classes to give more boons. We might need a quickness stacker, a fury stacker, an alacrity stacker, a might stacker... oh look that's nearly every slot of the team full. Even if you release the power/precision + concentration/ferocity stat prefix, this will mean that all condition focused builds and specializations will never see play again, due to requiring more stats to do equivalent damage to power. We would end up taking a large DPS and utility cut, with no real compensation or explanation as to why. There's not much to gain by making everybody equally terrible

This is all built upon shifting expectations from the game. Originally, quickness was not a boon. Quickness wasn't shared between classes (except Time Warp), and it was a short term buff only. In the past, we played the game at normal speed. That was all changed for... some reason. Alacrity was also not a boon. That was changed later due to a few other updates, in order to maintain permanently alacrity. We're under constant, shifting expectations of the game, and we're frustrated because we have no idea what is going on or where this is going. The line that "It'll be fixed in the future" is of no comfort. When? How? For how long until it gets changed again?

[sostronk.8167]

Where are my thief group boons?

[Dadnir.5038]

@Swiftwynd.1685 said:

@Jski.6180 said:@ Swiftwynd.1685Looks goods but would you go though and changes all the skill and effects on classes to fit with your ideal. There a lot of "free" lower end boons classes get it tends to mess up any ideal of splitting boons from class to class.

Its more about "what boons do they give out" than what do they generate themself. A Maleficent Seven deadeye generating their own boons is balanced and fine, but old chaos chrono obviously wasnt.

My list is more of a "these professions/e. specs should be able to maintain them on their 5 or 10 man party easily."

You make necromancer/scourge give vigor... A necromancer basically share 3 boons: might, regen and protection, if ANet is going to make him specialized in sharing something it's gonna be prot not anything else. Thematically, this boon is even in line with the way the necromancer mitigate damage.

You just need to put yourself into ANet's shoes and take the path of the least effort. Necromancer share prot throught traited wells and spectral ring. If you want to make him share it to a raid group, you just need a single tiny change: Beyond the veil, this trait now affect up to 10 allies around you instead of being shared to your minions. On 100% prot uptime this would make the necromancer grant 6 second of prot every 10 seconds. If you count on herald/mesmer's ability to increase the time of the boon, you end up with perma prot.

This patch even hint toward this boon for the necromancer. Vigor and resistance, that's not gonna happen.

[Sigmoid.7082]

@Ithilwen.1529 said:This is long overedue. Good job ANET. Now extend that to conditions as well. Start with making Alacrity Chronomancer only as originally intended.

Not going to happen. It would be the exact same situation where only one class provides a boon and is therefore mandatory. This is what they are moving away from. No one class will be able to give everything and everything won't only be on one class.

[santso.9201]

So in future we need 6-7 boonbots? How that is any better?

[Jski.6180]

I have a bad ideal i been playing with a bit in my head. What if we add in skills effects that only trigger at base number of concentration. The ideal is to remove boons from support skills if your not building for support. So say the shout Stand your ground no longer gives boons to other players if you do not have 200 or so concentration (nothing to high but high enofe to keep non support classes pulling off strong support).

If this works i like to see it for the other 2 expertise for condi effects and target caps of though condi effects (so a soft cc on a non condi build is not as powerful or hits at many targets when you have low expertise) as well as ferocity for dmg modifier effects as well as targets with power dmg (so ferocity will modifier power hits with out letting non dmg builds get too much free dmg and not hit too many targets as well).

Boons for support core classes get a lot of "free" rides as in they are not that effected by not having a support build. I would only push this to soft cc / condi and attks/ targets if it works.

But this maybe over complicated to balances right i just think there needs to be a way to make sure a class is not doing every thing on its one or another build just because it is that class. Builds should be the most important effect in the game NOT the class chosen.

[inaho.2046]

@santso.9201 said:So in future we need 6-7 boonbots? How that is any better?

There has been a huge assumption made that all these other classes want to sacrifice their DPS and add significantly to the mechanics they have to do and keep track of boons, their upkeep, and try to maintain dps. I don’t see this as a viable assumption. If it was - switching to banner warrior would not guarantee me a spot in a raid group which already has 2 chronos and a druid. Everybody would already be jumping to play banner because it’s an easy switch. They don’t. It’s not going to be play it your way going forward - it’s going to be, we don’t like how you chose to play it so we’re gojng to force you to play the way we want. If they wanted revenant and fb to be supports then they simply had to buff their support capabilities, instead firebrand was nerfed and herald is so restricted by energy management that it is frustrating to play (yes I play both - and moved my herald to renegade as soon as possible, and my firebrand will be a dragon hunter after the next patch release as just the mats to make the runes I need are 19g for the new recipie while over time I had stockpiled all the mats needed to make dozens on demand with the old recipies. So if they’re reworking stats I just won’t play those classes until after there is clear direction. And consider having the heralds shield push boons and cc like the chronos does. Hiding in a ball for 3 seconds with minimal healing meant to scrapped the heralds shield. The solution was not to destroy chrono, but rather to buff the other support options to make them viable. Druid bring offensive buffs. If tempest could bring either and it’s already better heals then it would rapidly supplant druid, but either way - if you’re killing off the viability of one class to make another then you having increased the diversity as you claim, but rather picked the winners and again ensured a lack of diversity of supports. Support chrono is hard to play well, too much to keep track of and be mindful of, that’s why there were never enough to meet demand. Your alternatives if support capability buffed and geared properly could fill those needs and prove themselves. I’m hoping you will rethink your approach for a less scorched earth method that just leaves disaffection in its wake instead of encouraging people to try new and cool options, a solution that won’t leave scorched earth in its wake. I can tell you now that in high end fractals and raids I’m just not seeing the viability of 5 or 6 supports unless you plan to nerf the content down to a level consummate with the changes you are making.

[inaho.2046]

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Ithilwen.1529 said:This is long overedue. Good job ANET. Now extend that to conditions as well.

Start with making Alacrity Chronomancer only as originally intended.

Not going to happen. It would be the exact same situation where only one class provides a boon and is therefore mandatory. This is what they are moving away from. No one class will be able to give everything and everything won't only be on one class.

Renegade already gives very short term alacrity. If it could upkeep it 50% and it’s other key buffs for others on the 6-9 attacks gained efficacy and duration with high concentration and healing it would be a support beast. Support rev is already meta for several raids btw

[Ithilwen.1529]

@inaho.2046 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Ithilwen.1529 said:This is long overedue. Good job ANET. Now extend that to conditions as well.

Start with making Alacrity Chronomancer only as originally intended.

Not going to happen. It would be the exact same situation where only one class provides a boon and is therefore mandatory. This is what they are moving away from. No one class will be able to give everything and everything won't only be on one class.

Renegade already gives very short term alacrity. If it could upkeep it 50% and it’s other key buffs for others on the 6-9 attacks gained efficacy and duration with high concentration and healing it would be a support beast. Support rev is already meta for several raids btw

Chronomancer was built around Alacrity. We were told it would be unique to the class. It should never have been changed.

[Kylden Ar.3724]

@Ithilwen.1529 said:This is long overedue. Good job ANET. Now extend that to conditions as well.

Start with making Alacrity Chronomancer only as originally intended.

Not going to happen. It would be the exact same situation where only one class provides a boon and is therefore mandatory. This is what they are moving away from. No one class will be able to give everything and everything won't only be on one class.

No, it really should. Until Alacrity was a boon, as before that it was a Chrono only feature, Chrono was not near as 'required' for everything. It's when Alacrity became a boon AND was added to SoI that the shenanigans began.

SoI was always passively too good a signet. Passive boon generation of everything, period? Oh, no, it's random, what ever will we do? Push boon duration to 100% so eventually we have everything...

SoI should have ALWAYS worked as follows;

Passive: Extend all applied boon duration and movement speed by 25%.

Active: Copy all current boons to allies.

That would have made the Mesmer/Chrono helpful for sharing, but still needed team work (or to camp staff) to get all the boons to share. The signet itself should never have generated boons.

@Ithilwen.1529 said:

Chronomancer was built around Alacrity. We were told it would be unique to the class. It should never have been changed.

Agreed 100%. It was turning it into a Boon that really started the kitten slide to Chrono 'requirements' everywhere.

[cylin.7048]

@Luckster.4076 said:Yesterday was the first time I ever actually started crying during fractals because of the verbal abuse for not doing my job correctly: for not sharing my quickness, stability and alacrity--the three most vital boons to share. No one will hold still for my wells. No one even holds still for Time Warp. Holding still in a lot of these fractals means instant death. The stress of seeing that only half my group is going to benefit from the incoming SoI activation while the other half has no boons at all or just one is too much.

I agree the recent updates to Runes and Chrono were a fucking dick move from ANet and the gold and time I invested to gear and learn Chrono is partly lost. However, I really think you need to give yourself a break - if people dont stand in reasonable placed wells its their fucking problem if they miss out on boons, NOT yours. I am not getting out of my way to voice that very clearly in pugs. Nobody should be verbally abused in the game for any reason - report and block these kittens.Better get yourself a group of friends who regularly do T4s or add me ingame.

[Will.9785]

@Rod.6581 said:I agree, instead of limiting, expand options for all classes.

Don't make the changes so we have composition that must have classes A, B, C, D, E in it.Make it so we need role X, Y, Z, H and classes A, B, C, D can do role X, but classes A, C, D, E can do role Y, classes B, C, D, E can do role Z and classes A, B, E, D can do role H.

Don't restrict us, make it more versatile!

Listen to this person. You can start by making everything that buffs 5 allies buff 10.

[Quartz.3462]

@inaho.2046 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Ithilwen.1529 said:This is long overedue. Good job ANET. Now extend that to conditions as well.

Start with making Alacrity Chronomancer only as originally intended.

Not going to happen. It would be the exact same situation where only one class provides a boon and is therefore mandatory. This is what they are moving away from. No one class will be able to give everything and everything won't only be on one class.

Renegade already gives very short term alacrity. If it could upkeep it 50% and it’s other key buffs for others on the 6-9 attacks gained efficacy and duration with high concentration and healing it would be a support beast. Support rev is already meta for several raids btw

With a harrier build renegade gives 100% alacrity uptime to 10 targets pressing one button that doesn't have a cast time. Orders from above doesn't have any combo to use it either. Just 20 energy from any legend every 16 or so seconds (due to alacrity).

[Draco.9480]

can you just make all party boon share skills, healing and unique buffs of specs just apply to 10 people so we'll bring unique specs to raids and not duplicate specs?

[Grisu.7534]

Ty Anet for this nerf... since i read the patch-news, i have not played my chrono a single second any more. and it was my main btw. i loved being a supporter, but the way i have to play chrono now does not make fun. please let us share boons again.

[Donutdude.9582]

Goodness me! I di not expect to come home from work to such a bold post from the ArenaNet team.

I am excited for these developments! Something to look forward to in the new year besides new LS!

[perilisk.1874]

@Kylden Ar.3724 said:

@Ithilwen.1529 said:This is long overedue. Good job ANET. Now extend that to conditions as well.

Start with making Alacrity Chronomancer only as originally intended.

Not going to happen. It would be the exact same situation where only one class provides a boon and is therefore mandatory. This is what they are moving away from. No one class will be able to give everything and everything won't only be on one class.

No, it really should. Until Alacrity was a boon, as before that it was a Chrono only feature, Chrono was not near as 'required' for everything. It's when Alacrity became a boon AND was added to SoI that the shenanigans began.

SoI was always passively too good a signet. Passive boon generation of everything, period? Oh, no, it's random, what ever will we do? Push boon duration to 100% so eventually we have everything...

SoI should have ALWAYS worked as follows;

Passive: Extend all applied boon duration and movement speed by 25%.

Active: Copy all current boons to allies.

That would have made the Mesmer/Chrono helpful for sharing, but still needed team work (or to camp staff) to get all the boons to share. The signet itself should never have generated boons.

@Ithilwen.1529 said:

Chronomancer was built around Alacrity. We were told it would be unique to the class. It should never have been changed.

Agreed 100%. It was turning it into a Boon that really started the kitten slide to Chrono 'requirements' everywhere.

Or they could have boonshare as a weaker version of the passive effect.Passive: Share each boon received with one ally.Active: Grant allies 4s of Persistence, a new boon that slows boon duration tickdown by... 33%, 50%, something like that. So, similar to the new SoI active effect, but actually works better when you have support stats.