Most OP Class Dec 14 2018 - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Most OP Class Dec 14 2018

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  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Mesmer

    "Wakes up and checks forum"
    "12 x mentioned"

    Looks like i sparked some discussion with a joke comment.

  • Tiah.3091Tiah.3091 Member ✭✭✭
    Warrior

    Mesmer (including power mes and core mes) is getting nerfs every monthly updates.
    Meanwhile, already OP Boonbeast gets massive buff - noone gives a kitten.

    I wonder, if A-Net just flat-out delete mesmer from spvp -- will there still be people crying "mesmer is OP"?

    Voted Spellbreaker.Because the "super-trio" (sb, holo, boonbeaat) are still #1.

  • rwolf.9571rwolf.9571 Member ✭✭✭
    Ranger

    I'll never understand why mesmer is always at the top of the list. They're easy to fight, and can't hold points.

    Playing alot of mesmer this past week, I'm constantly been able to be free casting all the time without issue.

  • Ranger

    I just think that the axe axe / sword warhorn soulbeast build needs nerf.....all other soulbeast builds are balanced tbh

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    They are all fairly balanced

    @Tiah.3091 said:
    Mesmer (including power mes and core mes) is getting nerfs every monthly updates.
    Meanwhile, already OP Boonbeast gets massive buff - noone gives a kitten.

    I wonder, if A-Net just flat-out delete mesmer from spvp -- will there still be people crying "mesmer is OP"?

    Voted Spellbreaker.Because the "super-trio" (sb, holo, boonbeaat) are still #1.

    They probably would People cried about Mesmer for a while. its always the same:WAAAH I cannot beat a scourge WAAAH druid has too much survivability WAAH thieves hit hard.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Ranger

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:
    I think they are probably closer together, since everyone got nerfs.

    Reapers dmg got nerfed in sustain and some of the dmg.
    Warriors got nerfed in full counter pretty hard.
    Thieves got hit with the nerf bat very very hard on lead attacks, so now they are forced to be in combat to get some, and rifle also got nerfed.
    Eles got nerfed in sustain in tempest elite spec, and also nerfed in crit dmg.
    mesmers got the most nerfs that ive seen:Jaunt got nerfed from 3 charges to 2, and the buffs chrono gives out was also nerfed such as quickness, but got buffed in power.Mesmers were hit very hard with the nerf bat in fact.
    Guardians got some nerfs to some abilities with hammer I think, but I will need to be corrected.

    Pretty much every class took a hit by the nerf bat.

    Boonbeast was buffed to even more impossible to kill.

    Anyone voting anything other than ranger on this poll doesn't know what they're talking about.

    Ranger has amazing trait synergy which many classes have also enjoyed but were nerfed in hefty amounts because of. Also if you think PvP soulbeast is busted try fighting it in WvW where ANet love skill splitting ranger from it's PvP nerfs so druid is as faceroll as ever (10s CA CD) and the stance cool down increases weren't implemented but the buff to dolyak stance is brought over.

    The only class which has been nerfed from playable to unplayable would be ele..about the rest, they remain viable despite these "hefty" nerfs, the trait synergy is still there just not as broken; trait synergy should be a target for each profession..not something to destroy. The CA cd sits in the same room with many other traits on other profession which received only pvp related nerfs, if you want to extend CA cd nerfs to wvw then...you should extend nerfs also on warrior endure pain, holo traits etc etc.

    About soulbeast, it remains a power spec with no innate sustain but kept alive by this boon generation gimmick, without which it would offer even less sustain than core ranger let alone druid, now I have been a strong advocate of removing/nerfing moa stance even more and yet...ranger is far from being this one man army

    You actually have to invest time and effort into elementalists if you want to be anything other than useless with it...

    I actually want elementalist to have more damage, oddly enough. I think when a lot of people roll elementalist they want to be that classic wizard able to hurl death on people from a distance. I wish Elementalist was a huge power / crit version of a scourge and could be super successful as a team damage carry the way Holosmith and Rev currently are, but with a more traditional caster flavor. I miss fresh air ele before they got that huge damage nerf, they were super fun to play and fun to fight against.

    Ele doesn't need buffs it needs all the power creep to be addressed. A lot of ele builds work by reducing damage taken and healing back up what damage it takes through really high sustained healing. Sustained healing means nothing if every hit chunks off half your health and thanks to FB we saw clerics amulet removed.

    I don't miss the time when any below average Joe could become a god overnight by playing arcana/water d/d ele at 800+ healing power...that's not how a class should work and regardless the healing of an ele is still there when treated and played properly; you talk about wvw but there I can match basically any class in 1v1 on a sword weaver and win in most cases, stall in others and it becomes boring, that's not how the game supposed to work : "healing back to full despite the tremendeous amount of mistakes"

    "Invincible healbot" is not a balanced concept and should not exist in any form or shape and that's why I advocate for nerfs on boonbeast and boonbeast only , listing all sustain of a ranger is nothing more than witchhunt, it's not balance discussion

    Getting good on ranger takes time and hundreds of deaths like any other class and like it happened to other professions now ranger has a "too" accessible build due to the excessive boon generation and this build I fully agree should be nerfed more, other than that I can match any ranger build with an ele and that says it all about the veridicality of most claims made in this thread.

    Soulbeast is very strong, anyone saying it's anything but overturned likely has a vested interest in keeping it too strong. Just like holo, condi mirage and many other meta PoF specs.

    It could also be that the player dedicated his build to dealing with boonbeasts and mirages?
    That's sort of how my Tempest is set up, handles boonbeeasts, mirages, thieves, spellbreakers extremely well but fails hard against holo and a decent scourge from lack of stab and condi removals.

    But if If change my build to something else, something with more condi cleanse then my issues become that Thief, Ranger, Holo and spellbreaker becomes "OP" while mirage and scourge can be ignored because I took too much condi cleanse.

    Perspective is a funny thing, 2 people could argue completely different sides of the same story and both would be correct.

    Your build has downsides to it though. You become weak to multiple classes and builds especially ones that are considered meta in return for being strong against certain other meta builds. Soulbeast, holo and condi mirage lack this trade off for the most part and remain strong or decent against most builds currently in the meta.

    @Arheundel.6451 That's your personal opinion, many players believe the opposite. Besides if any idiot can slap on high toughness and healing they do no damage, rotato potato them, they're an idiot after all by your own evaluation.

    I have made my viewpoints very clear that holo gets too much free healing in holosmith in many threads for a while while I've also pointed out the condition stacking and bursting on mirage is not just too strong but entirely inconsistent with the statement from the balance team "We want mirages to excel in longer combat engagements, but their burst damage was just too high." I'm not witch hunting (would that be a standard hunt?) ranger specifically however it is exceptionally over tuned especially in WvW.

    Im not sure how you can assume all of that when I never posted a specific build?

    I also feel like theres a sense of balance there too if a player has to decide to do well against mirages or to do well against boonbeasts...

    You said "That's sort of how my Tempest is set up, handles boonbeeasts, mirages, thieves, spellbreakers extremely well but fails hard against holo and a decent scourge from lack of stab and condi removals." So your build is strong vs some in the meta and has a clear weakness against others and all but maybe thieves and maybe spellbreakers are well represented across divisions.

    As I say mirage, soulbeasts and holosmiths don't have very big weaknesses, sure conditions might be stronger vs them but they are by no means weak against them.

  • Mesmer

    nerf to the portal has not touched the amount of condition that Mirage is able to apply by pressing two keys and can reapply whenever he wants

    SB is strong but it is also easier to fight than a good mirage, the skills have obvious animations of what it is going to do, it has no invulnerability and the F3 skills have a cast of 1.2 and 1.4 sec, surely for those who know how to deal with them, they are not as invincible as many people think

    I would also add the incredible dps of Holo and Reaper even though my problem with them is that they can not be interrupted during their combo, having all that dps and stability that does not occupy a utility slot seems a bit excessive :)

  • Arioch.4810Arioch.4810 Member ✭✭✭

    And still probably to this day hasn't figured out how to find the real mesmer in melee range

    To be fair, i think he did figure it out at the end: Go Holo, pop stab, unleash (skill) 2 into 3 into 5 -> that clone that lived, THAT'S the real mesmer
    :P

    (/s)

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 16, 2018

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:
    I think they are probably closer together, since everyone got nerfs.

    Reapers dmg got nerfed in sustain and some of the dmg.
    Warriors got nerfed in full counter pretty hard.
    Thieves got hit with the nerf bat very very hard on lead attacks, so now they are forced to be in combat to get some, and rifle also got nerfed.
    Eles got nerfed in sustain in tempest elite spec, and also nerfed in crit dmg.
    mesmers got the most nerfs that ive seen:Jaunt got nerfed from 3 charges to 2, and the buffs chrono gives out was also nerfed such as quickness, but got buffed in power.Mesmers were hit very hard with the nerf bat in fact.
    Guardians got some nerfs to some abilities with hammer I think, but I will need to be corrected.

    Pretty much every class took a hit by the nerf bat.

    Boonbeast was buffed to even more impossible to kill.

    Anyone voting anything other than ranger on this poll doesn't know what they're talking about.

    Ranger has amazing trait synergy which many classes have also enjoyed but were nerfed in hefty amounts because of. Also if you think PvP soulbeast is busted try fighting it in WvW where ANet love skill splitting ranger from it's PvP nerfs so druid is as faceroll as ever (10s CA CD) and the stance cool down increases weren't implemented but the buff to dolyak stance is brought over.

    The only class which has been nerfed from playable to unplayable would be ele..about the rest, they remain viable despite these "hefty" nerfs, the trait synergy is still there just not as broken; trait synergy should be a target for each profession..not something to destroy. The CA cd sits in the same room with many other traits on other profession which received only pvp related nerfs, if you want to extend CA cd nerfs to wvw then...you should extend nerfs also on warrior endure pain, holo traits etc etc.

    About soulbeast, it remains a power spec with no innate sustain but kept alive by this boon generation gimmick, without which it would offer even less sustain than core ranger let alone druid, now I have been a strong advocate of removing/nerfing moa stance even more and yet...ranger is far from being this one man army

    You actually have to invest time and effort into elementalists if you want to be anything other than useless with it...

    I actually want elementalist to have more damage, oddly enough. I think when a lot of people roll elementalist they want to be that classic wizard able to hurl death on people from a distance. I wish Elementalist was a huge power / crit version of a scourge and could be super successful as a team damage carry the way Holosmith and Rev currently are, but with a more traditional caster flavor. I miss fresh air ele before they got that huge damage nerf, they were super fun to play and fun to fight against.

    Ele doesn't need buffs it needs all the power creep to be addressed. A lot of ele builds work by reducing damage taken and healing back up what damage it takes through really high sustained healing. Sustained healing means nothing if every hit chunks off half your health and thanks to FB we saw clerics amulet removed.

    I don't miss the time when any below average Joe could become a god overnight by playing arcana/water d/d ele at 800+ healing power...that's not how a class should work and regardless the healing of an ele is still there when treated and played properly; you talk about wvw but there I can match basically any class in 1v1 on a sword weaver and win in most cases, stall in others and it becomes boring, that's not how the game supposed to work : "healing back to full despite the tremendeous amount of mistakes"

    "Invincible healbot" is not a balanced concept and should not exist in any form or shape and that's why I advocate for nerfs on boonbeast and boonbeast only , listing all sustain of a ranger is nothing more than witchhunt, it's not balance discussion

    Getting good on ranger takes time and hundreds of deaths like any other class and like it happened to other professions now ranger has a "too" accessible build due to the excessive boon generation and this build I fully agree should be nerfed more, other than that I can match any ranger build with an ele and that says it all about the veridicality of most claims made in this thread.

    Soulbeast is very strong, anyone saying it's anything but overturned likely has a vested interest in keeping it too strong. Just like holo, condi mirage and many other meta PoF specs.

    It could also be that the player dedicated his build to dealing with boonbeasts and mirages?
    That's sort of how my Tempest is set up, handles boonbeeasts, mirages, thieves, spellbreakers extremely well but fails hard against holo and a decent scourge from lack of stab and condi removals.

    But if If change my build to something else, something with more condi cleanse then my issues become that Thief, Ranger, Holo and spellbreaker becomes "OP" while mirage and scourge can be ignored because I took too much condi cleanse.

    Perspective is a funny thing, 2 people could argue completely different sides of the same story and both would be correct.

    Your build has downsides to it though. You become weak to multiple classes and builds especially ones that are considered meta in return for being strong against certain other meta builds. Soulbeast, holo and condi mirage lack this trade off for the most part and remain strong or decent against most builds currently in the meta.

    @Arheundel.6451 That's your personal opinion, many players believe the opposite. Besides if any idiot can slap on high toughness and healing they do no damage, rotato potato them, they're an idiot after all by your own evaluation.

    I have made my viewpoints very clear that holo gets too much free healing in holosmith in many threads for a while while I've also pointed out the condition stacking and bursting on mirage is not just too strong but entirely inconsistent with the statement from the balance team "We want mirages to excel in longer combat engagements, but their burst damage was just too high." I'm not witch hunting (would that be a standard hunt?) ranger specifically however it is exceptionally over tuned especially in WvW.

    Im not sure how you can assume all of that when I never posted a specific build?

    I also feel like theres a sense of balance there too if a player has to decide to do well against mirages or to do well against boonbeasts...

    You said "That's sort of how my Tempest is set up, handles boonbeeasts, mirages, thieves, spellbreakers extremely well but fails hard against holo and a decent scourge from lack of stab and condi removals." So your build is strong vs some in the meta and has a clear weakness against others and all but maybe thieves and maybe spellbreakers are well represented across divisions.

    As I say mirage, soulbeasts and holosmiths don't have very big weaknesses, sure conditions might be stronger vs them but they are by no means weak against them.

    You either took that out of context on purpose or you didn't bother reading the next sentence.
    The very next few words were "but if I change my build.."

    I have the feeling you might have missed it and there are plenty of builds for Tempest to use too so please don't focus solely on the 2 examples I gave, it was the message in the examples that matter.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Ranger

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:
    I think they are probably closer together, since everyone got nerfs.

    Reapers dmg got nerfed in sustain and some of the dmg.
    Warriors got nerfed in full counter pretty hard.
    Thieves got hit with the nerf bat very very hard on lead attacks, so now they are forced to be in combat to get some, and rifle also got nerfed.
    Eles got nerfed in sustain in tempest elite spec, and also nerfed in crit dmg.
    mesmers got the most nerfs that ive seen:Jaunt got nerfed from 3 charges to 2, and the buffs chrono gives out was also nerfed such as quickness, but got buffed in power.Mesmers were hit very hard with the nerf bat in fact.
    Guardians got some nerfs to some abilities with hammer I think, but I will need to be corrected.

    Pretty much every class took a hit by the nerf bat.

    Boonbeast was buffed to even more impossible to kill.

    Anyone voting anything other than ranger on this poll doesn't know what they're talking about.

    Ranger has amazing trait synergy which many classes have also enjoyed but were nerfed in hefty amounts because of. Also if you think PvP soulbeast is busted try fighting it in WvW where ANet love skill splitting ranger from it's PvP nerfs so druid is as faceroll as ever (10s CA CD) and the stance cool down increases weren't implemented but the buff to dolyak stance is brought over.

    The only class which has been nerfed from playable to unplayable would be ele..about the rest, they remain viable despite these "hefty" nerfs, the trait synergy is still there just not as broken; trait synergy should be a target for each profession..not something to destroy. The CA cd sits in the same room with many other traits on other profession which received only pvp related nerfs, if you want to extend CA cd nerfs to wvw then...you should extend nerfs also on warrior endure pain, holo traits etc etc.

    About soulbeast, it remains a power spec with no innate sustain but kept alive by this boon generation gimmick, without which it would offer even less sustain than core ranger let alone druid, now I have been a strong advocate of removing/nerfing moa stance even more and yet...ranger is far from being this one man army

    You actually have to invest time and effort into elementalists if you want to be anything other than useless with it...

    I actually want elementalist to have more damage, oddly enough. I think when a lot of people roll elementalist they want to be that classic wizard able to hurl death on people from a distance. I wish Elementalist was a huge power / crit version of a scourge and could be super successful as a team damage carry the way Holosmith and Rev currently are, but with a more traditional caster flavor. I miss fresh air ele before they got that huge damage nerf, they were super fun to play and fun to fight against.

    Ele doesn't need buffs it needs all the power creep to be addressed. A lot of ele builds work by reducing damage taken and healing back up what damage it takes through really high sustained healing. Sustained healing means nothing if every hit chunks off half your health and thanks to FB we saw clerics amulet removed.

    I don't miss the time when any below average Joe could become a god overnight by playing arcana/water d/d ele at 800+ healing power...that's not how a class should work and regardless the healing of an ele is still there when treated and played properly; you talk about wvw but there I can match basically any class in 1v1 on a sword weaver and win in most cases, stall in others and it becomes boring, that's not how the game supposed to work : "healing back to full despite the tremendeous amount of mistakes"

    "Invincible healbot" is not a balanced concept and should not exist in any form or shape and that's why I advocate for nerfs on boonbeast and boonbeast only , listing all sustain of a ranger is nothing more than witchhunt, it's not balance discussion

    Getting good on ranger takes time and hundreds of deaths like any other class and like it happened to other professions now ranger has a "too" accessible build due to the excessive boon generation and this build I fully agree should be nerfed more, other than that I can match any ranger build with an ele and that says it all about the veridicality of most claims made in this thread.

    Soulbeast is very strong, anyone saying it's anything but overturned likely has a vested interest in keeping it too strong. Just like holo, condi mirage and many other meta PoF specs.

    It could also be that the player dedicated his build to dealing with boonbeasts and mirages?
    That's sort of how my Tempest is set up, handles boonbeeasts, mirages, thieves, spellbreakers extremely well but fails hard against holo and a decent scourge from lack of stab and condi removals.

    But if If change my build to something else, something with more condi cleanse then my issues become that Thief, Ranger, Holo and spellbreaker becomes "OP" while mirage and scourge can be ignored because I took too much condi cleanse.

    Perspective is a funny thing, 2 people could argue completely different sides of the same story and both would be correct.

    Your build has downsides to it though. You become weak to multiple classes and builds especially ones that are considered meta in return for being strong against certain other meta builds. Soulbeast, holo and condi mirage lack this trade off for the most part and remain strong or decent against most builds currently in the meta.

    @Arheundel.6451 That's your personal opinion, many players believe the opposite. Besides if any idiot can slap on high toughness and healing they do no damage, rotato potato them, they're an idiot after all by your own evaluation.

    I have made my viewpoints very clear that holo gets too much free healing in holosmith in many threads for a while while I've also pointed out the condition stacking and bursting on mirage is not just too strong but entirely inconsistent with the statement from the balance team "We want mirages to excel in longer combat engagements, but their burst damage was just too high." I'm not witch hunting (would that be a standard hunt?) ranger specifically however it is exceptionally over tuned especially in WvW.

    Im not sure how you can assume all of that when I never posted a specific build?

    I also feel like theres a sense of balance there too if a player has to decide to do well against mirages or to do well against boonbeasts...

    You said "That's sort of how my Tempest is set up, handles boonbeeasts, mirages, thieves, spellbreakers extremely well but fails hard against holo and a decent scourge from lack of stab and condi removals." So your build is strong vs some in the meta and has a clear weakness against others and all but maybe thieves and maybe spellbreakers are well represented across divisions.

    As I say mirage, soulbeasts and holosmiths don't have very big weaknesses, sure conditions might be stronger vs them but they are by no means weak against them.

    You either took that out of context on purpose or you didn't bother reading the next sentence.
    The very next few words were "but if I change my build.."

    I have the feeling you might have missed it and there are plenty of builds for Tempest to use too so please don't focus solely on the 2 examples I gave, it was the message in the examples that matter.

    No I understand you. You're saying you can run 1 build and be strong vs certain classes and weak vs the others however you can change build and that flips. You can then change to another build and your strengths and weaknesses likewise change.

    That's how it should be. What I'm saying is that soulbeast, holo and mirage (as the 3 top examples) lack this within their meta builds where they're strong against a lot of classes and builds but not really considered weak against others. They also have a few other options to run which while aren't as good are still pretty strong and lack clear weaknesses.

  • EpicTurtle.8571EpicTurtle.8571 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Ranger

    @Apolo.5942 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    People complain about Mirage for the same reason they complained about condi chrono back in HoT, for the same reason they complain about core mesmer back on release all the way through core. People hate what they die to. They will never not complain about what they die to > They die to what they don't understand more than they do what they actively do understand > Mesmer and mirage give the lowest feedback towards victims of what was responsible for killing them. That's it. It's literally as simple as that. All mesmer builds could be elementalist tier it would still garner more hate and cries for nerfing than the actual top tier builds in the game.

    You are pretty much describing TOXIC CLASS DESIGN.

    Its a class that for what ever reason (which is completely irrelevant) its main defining attribute is that players hate to play against it.

    That comparison is about as sensible as your passive defense argument.

  • Mesmer

    Mirage can still dodge/jaunt while CC’d right?

  • Apolo.5942Apolo.5942 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 16, 2018
    Mesmer

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:

    @Apolo.5942 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    People complain about Mirage for the same reason they complained about condi chrono back in HoT, for the same reason they complain about core mesmer back on release all the way through core. People hate what they die to. They will never not complain about what they die to > They die to what they don't understand more than they do what they actively do understand > Mesmer and mirage give the lowest feedback towards victims of what was responsible for killing them. That's it. It's literally as simple as that. All mesmer builds could be elementalist tier it would still garner more hate and cries for nerfing than the actual top tier builds in the game.

    You are pretty much describing TOXIC CLASS DESIGN.

    Its a class that for what ever reason (which is completely irrelevant) its main defining attribute is that players hate to play against it.

    That comparison is about as sensible as your passive defense argument.

    Yet, you have a poll on this same forum, stating with 75% approval that there is too much damage flying around...

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/63078/is-damage-too-high/p1

    Conditions need to be normalized:
    1- SINGLE PLAYER conditions stack on DURATION.
    2- MULTIPLE PLAYERS conditions stack on INTENSITY.
    3- REBALANCE condition duration, damage and application.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Ranger

    @Apolo.5942 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Apolo.5942 said:

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:

    @Apolo.5942 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    People complain about Mirage for the same reason they complained about condi chrono back in HoT, for the same reason they complain about core mesmer back on release all the way through core. People hate what they die to. They will never not complain about what they die to > They die to what they don't understand more than they do what they actively do understand > Mesmer and mirage give the lowest feedback towards victims of what was responsible for killing them. That's it. It's literally as simple as that. All mesmer builds could be elementalist tier it would still garner more hate and cries for nerfing than the actual top tier builds in the game.

    You are pretty much describing TOXIC CLASS DESIGN.

    Its a class that for what ever reason (which is completely irrelevant) its main defining attribute is that players hate to play against it.

    That comparison is about as sensible as your passive defense argument.

    Yet, you have a poll on this same forum, stating with 75% approval that there is too much damage flying around...

    I consider popular opinion about as useful as my stool.

    Interesting, coming from a guy that picked the most voted class on this poll...

    A broken clock, ect. ect.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Apolo.5942Apolo.5942 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 17, 2018
    Mesmer

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Apolo.5942 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Apolo.5942 said:

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:

    @Apolo.5942 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    People complain about Mirage for the same reason they complained about condi chrono back in HoT, for the same reason they complain about core mesmer back on release all the way through core. People hate what they die to. They will never not complain about what they die to > They die to what they don't understand more than they do what they actively do understand > Mesmer and mirage give the lowest feedback towards victims of what was responsible for killing them. That's it. It's literally as simple as that. All mesmer builds could be elementalist tier it would still garner more hate and cries for nerfing than the actual top tier builds in the game.

    You are pretty much describing TOXIC CLASS DESIGN.

    Its a class that for what ever reason (which is completely irrelevant) its main defining attribute is that players hate to play against it.

    That comparison is about as sensible as your passive defense argument.

    Yet, you have a poll on this same forum, stating with 75% approval that there is too much damage flying around...

    I consider popular opinion about as useful as my stool.

    Interesting, coming from a guy that picked the most voted class on this poll...

    A broken clock, ect. ect.

    Let me spell it out for you:

    The guy belies my argument that mesmer design is toxic, while you basically stated that people dislike to play against it regardless of the balance situation.

    He states that my previous argument about needing more passive defenses is ridiculous, while we have 75% poll that says there is too much damage flying around.

    You stated that you do not care about popular choice, while picking the most "popular" op choice....

    Do you notice a trend there?.

    Conditions need to be normalized:
    1- SINGLE PLAYER conditions stack on DURATION.
    2- MULTIPLE PLAYERS conditions stack on INTENSITY.
    3- REBALANCE condition duration, damage and application.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 17, 2018
    Ranger

    @Apolo.5942 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Apolo.5942 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Apolo.5942 said:

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:

    @Apolo.5942 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    People complain about Mirage for the same reason they complained about condi chrono back in HoT, for the same reason they complain about core mesmer back on release all the way through core. People hate what they die to. They will never not complain about what they die to > They die to what they don't understand more than they do what they actively do understand > Mesmer and mirage give the lowest feedback towards victims of what was responsible for killing them. That's it. It's literally as simple as that. All mesmer builds could be elementalist tier it would still garner more hate and cries for nerfing than the actual top tier builds in the game.

    You are pretty much describing TOXIC CLASS DESIGN.

    Its a class that for what ever reason (which is completely irrelevant) its main defining attribute is that players hate to play against it.

    That comparison is about as sensible as your passive defense argument.

    Yet, you have a poll on this same forum, stating with 75% approval that there is too much damage flying around...

    I consider popular opinion about as useful as my stool.

    Interesting, coming from a guy that picked the most voted class on this poll...

    A broken clock, ect. ect.

    Let me spell it out for you:

    The guy belies my argument that mesmer design is toxic, while you basically stated that people dislike to play against it regardless of the balance situation.

    He states that my previous argument about needing more passive defenses is ridiculous, while we have 75% poll that says there is too much damage flying around.

    You stated that you do not care about popular choice, while picking the most "popular" op choice....

    Do you notice a trend there?.

    That the community recognizes that Boonbeast is out of control is an accident really.

    It's 2018 and people still whine about Core Thieves running away before they get killed.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Ranger

    @Arioch.4810 said:

    And still probably to this day hasn't figured out how to find the real mesmer in melee range

    To be fair, i think he did figure it out at the end: Go Holo, pop stab, unleash (skill) 2 into 3 into 5 -> that clone that lived, THAT'S the real mesmer
    :P

    (/s)

    Now you know that's too many steps for most people in this forum😂

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Mesmer

    @Horan.7013 said:
    Mirage can still dodge/jaunt while CC’d right?

    Yes

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Mesmer

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Apolo.5942 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Apolo.5942 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Apolo.5942 said:

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:

    @Apolo.5942 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    People complain about Mirage for the same reason they complained about condi chrono back in HoT, for the same reason they complain about core mesmer back on release all the way through core. People hate what they die to. They will never not complain about what they die to > They die to what they don't understand more than they do what they actively do understand > Mesmer and mirage give the lowest feedback towards victims of what was responsible for killing them. That's it. It's literally as simple as that. All mesmer builds could be elementalist tier it would still garner more hate and cries for nerfing than the actual top tier builds in the game.

    You are pretty much describing TOXIC CLASS DESIGN.

    Its a class that for what ever reason (which is completely irrelevant) its main defining attribute is that players hate to play against it.

    That comparison is about as sensible as your passive defense argument.

    Yet, you have a poll on this same forum, stating with 75% approval that there is too much damage flying around...

    I consider popular opinion about as useful as my stool.

    Interesting, coming from a guy that picked the most voted class on this poll...

    A broken clock, ect. ect.

    Let me spell it out for you:

    The guy belies my argument that mesmer design is toxic, while you basically stated that people dislike to play against it regardless of the balance situation.

    He states that my previous argument about needing more passive defenses is ridiculous, while we have 75% poll that says there is too much damage flying around.

    You stated that you do not care about popular choice, while picking the most "popular" op choice....

    Do you notice a trend there?.

    That the community recognizes that Boonbeast is out of control is an accident really.

    It's 2018 and people still whine about Core Thieves running away before they get killed.

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Apolo.5942 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Apolo.5942 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Apolo.5942 said:

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:

    @Apolo.5942 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    People complain about Mirage for the same reason they complained about condi chrono back in HoT, for the same reason they complain about core mesmer back on release all the way through core. People hate what they die to. They will never not complain about what they die to > They die to what they don't understand more than they do what they actively do understand > Mesmer and mirage give the lowest feedback towards victims of what was responsible for killing them. That's it. It's literally as simple as that. All mesmer builds could be elementalist tier it would still garner more hate and cries for nerfing than the actual top tier builds in the game.

    You are pretty much describing TOXIC CLASS DESIGN.

    Its a class that for what ever reason (which is completely irrelevant) its main defining attribute is that players hate to play against it.

    That comparison is about as sensible as your passive defense argument.

    Yet, you have a poll on this same forum, stating with 75% approval that there is too much damage flying around...

    I consider popular opinion about as useful as my stool.

    Interesting, coming from a guy that picked the most voted class on this poll...

    A broken clock, ect. ect.

    Let me spell it out for you:

    The guy belies my argument that mesmer design is toxic, while you basically stated that people dislike to play against it regardless of the balance situation.

    He states that my previous argument about needing more passive defenses is ridiculous, while we have 75% poll that says there is too much damage flying around.

    You stated that you do not care about popular choice, while picking the most "popular" op choice....

    Do you notice a trend there?.

    That the community recognizes that Boonbeast is out of control is an accident really.

    It's 2018 and people still whine about Core Thieves running away before they get killed.

    The truth is...soulbeast is the only thing with a serious chance vs mirage at equal skill level...no wonders mesmers like you want it nerfed so badly

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • EpicTurtle.8571EpicTurtle.8571 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 17, 2018
    Ranger

    @Apolo.5942 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Apolo.5942 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Apolo.5942 said:

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:

    @Apolo.5942 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    People complain about Mirage for the same reason they complained about condi chrono back in HoT, for the same reason they complain about core mesmer back on release all the way through core. People hate what they die to. They will never not complain about what they die to > They die to what they don't understand more than they do what they actively do understand > Mesmer and mirage give the lowest feedback towards victims of what was responsible for killing them. That's it. It's literally as simple as that. All mesmer builds could be elementalist tier it would still garner more hate and cries for nerfing than the actual top tier builds in the game.

    You are pretty much describing TOXIC CLASS DESIGN.

    Its a class that for what ever reason (which is completely irrelevant) its main defining attribute is that players hate to play against it.

    That comparison is about as sensible as your passive defense argument.

    Yet, you have a poll on this same forum, stating with 75% approval that there is too much damage flying around...

    I consider popular opinion about as useful as my stool.

    Interesting, coming from a guy that picked the most voted class on this poll...

    A broken clock, ect. ect.

    Let me spell it out for you:

    The guy belies my argument that mesmer design is toxic, while you basically stated that people dislike to play against it regardless of the balance situation.

    He states that my previous argument about needing more passive defenses is ridiculous, while we have 75% poll that says there is too much damage flying around.

    You stated that you do not care about popular choice, while picking the most "popular" op choice....

    Do you notice a trend there?.

    Oh that was not the part about passive defenses I was addressing. I was addressing your previous trainwreck of a mesmer brigading thread. The one where if a skill has more than one function you called it passive. Good times.

    Although even if it was Mortrialus had the same reaction I would. Popular opinion doesn't mean anything. It just means a lot of people like hearing the same thing as other people. If ANet implemented a tenth of the horrible popular opinions on here every class would be garbage.

  • Guardian

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    I actually want elementalist to have more damage, oddly enough.

    just roll zerk staff tempest like me :-D

    The horror...…….the horror...…….the horror...…….

  • Engineer

    Holosmith flying under the radar loll. It's the only one that's overtly overpowered right now imo.

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭

    With the recent patch I’m not decided on “what is op” or “what needs to be nerfed.”

    Sustain still needs some nerfs in a few places. But where and how much is still up in the air.

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 18, 2018
    Ranger

    It's obviously boonbeast with the current patch, but condition mirage was and still is a fair contender.

    It's almost like boonbeast was built to hard counter condition mirages, at this point.

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Guardian

    Wanted to vote ranger, but i see so many core guards that i gave them my vote. Only prof able to play core. Otherwise, soulbeast are annoying.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Ranger

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    I actually want elementalist to have more damage, oddly enough.

    just roll zerk staff tempest like me :-D

    I'd probably win more engagements jumping in to moving traffic XP

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Apolo.5942Apolo.5942 Member ✭✭✭
    Mesmer

    Well it seems pretty clear, Mesmer remains a problem child (no big shock there) and ranger is also problematic at least in its current state.

    Conditions need to be normalized:
    1- SINGLE PLAYER conditions stack on DURATION.
    2- MULTIPLE PLAYERS conditions stack on INTENSITY.
    3- REBALANCE condition duration, damage and application.

  • Koen.1327Koen.1327 Member ✭✭✭
    Revenant

    voted revenant, i think it's the most valuable and important class in ranked as i can kill almost everything really quick
    it's the best +1 class, not so much challenged in burst dmg compared to other burst specs

    duelist and bruiser specs are more balanced imo although mes is a little too dominant

  • Mesmer

    I'm tempted to say everything is balanced after the last patch for once in this game's lifetime post PoF, but mesmer drew the long stick yet again.

    The changes to portal didn't really change anything that people are upset with. All that did was strip mesmers of their mobility and team utility. For the most part, regardless of whether or not you play chrono or mirage, mes is largely unchanged after every other class was tuned up or down to be in line with eachother, and that's why i'd consider it S-tier; overpowered.

    Remove Ranked DuoQ pls&ty

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 23, 2018
    Mesmer

    Mirage and Soulbeast make me want to quit playing PvP.

    Voted Mesmer because it's the ultimate anti fun thing to play against on top of being OP.

    Would put Holo at third place.

    "As you know, those who you once called friends have become enemies." ~Glint

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Mesmer

    As a DPS Mirage main, it still surprises me how well Condi mirages are doing overall, seeing how a lot of them are running macros to assist with clone generation. If it wasn't for the macros, I wonder if condi mirage would still be as dominant.

    Boon beasts are also doing quite well and would be a really close second. I feel as if this poll should be more specific instead of blanketing a whole class based on the strength of 1 spec/build. Makes the results more specific thus more accurate.

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
    twitch.tv/TRMC
    Lover of Jumping puzzles, Squirrels, WvW, and Taimi
    Co-Leader of SOmething inAPpropriate {SOAP}

  • Mesmer

    Fact: A mesmer has a window of 3 seconds to be hit every 30 sec. The magical 7 defensives + dodges are on too low cd.

    Especially staff 2, 8 sec cd when traited.. what is this? Sure as hell isnt inline standardized.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2019
    Mesmer

    'Guild Wars 2 [vT] Soki Shatter Mesmer | Wow Big DPS Kappa'
    Published on Dec 25, 2018

    (1 shotting multiple players at the same time)

    -all professions are Op>Power Creep at the moment. Mesmers are by far the most dangerous especially being able to 1 shot more than 1 players at the same time-

    ((As long Anet continue to not see anything wrong with their favorite: Mesmer, no serious action will be taken against Mesmer.Once again, Anet will give Mesmer 'a slap on the wrist for being too much out of control '))

    G.L

  • Lilyanna.9361Lilyanna.9361 Member ✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:
    I think they are probably closer together, since everyone got nerfs.

    Reapers dmg got nerfed in sustain and some of the dmg.
    Warriors got nerfed in full counter pretty hard.
    Thieves got hit with the nerf bat very very hard on lead attacks, so now they are forced to be in combat to get some, and rifle also got nerfed.
    Eles got nerfed in sustain in tempest elite spec, and also nerfed in crit dmg.
    mesmers got the most nerfs that ive seen:Jaunt got nerfed from 3 charges to 2, and the buffs chrono gives out was also nerfed such as quickness, but got buffed in power.Mesmers were hit very hard with the nerf bat in fact.
    Guardians got some nerfs to some abilities with hammer I think, but I will need to be corrected.

    Pretty much every class took a hit by the nerf bat.

    Boonbeast was buffed to even more impossible to kill.

    Anyone voting anything other than ranger on this poll doesn't know what they're talking about.

    Ranger has amazing trait synergy which many classes have also enjoyed but were nerfed in hefty amounts because of. Also if you think PvP soulbeast is busted try fighting it in WvW where ANet love skill splitting ranger from it's PvP nerfs so druid is as faceroll as ever (10s CA CD) and the stance cool down increases weren't implemented but the buff to dolyak stance is brought over.

    The only class which has been nerfed from playable to unplayable would be ele..about the rest, they remain viable despite these "hefty" nerfs, the trait synergy is still there just not as broken; trait synergy should be a target for each profession..not something to destroy. The CA cd sits in the same room with many other traits on other profession which received only pvp related nerfs, if you want to extend CA cd nerfs to wvw then...you should extend nerfs also on warrior endure pain, holo traits etc etc.

    About soulbeast, it remains a power spec with no innate sustain but kept alive by this boon generation gimmick, without which it would offer even less sustain than core ranger let alone druid, now I have been a strong advocate of removing/nerfing moa stance even more and yet...ranger is far from being this one man army

    You actually have to invest time and effort into elementalists if you want to be anything other than useless with it...

    I actually want elementalist to have more damage, oddly enough. I think when a lot of people roll elementalist they want to be that classic wizard able to hurl death on people from a distance. I wish Elementalist was a huge power / crit version of a scourge and could be super successful as a team damage carry the way Holosmith and Rev currently are, but with a more traditional caster flavor. I miss fresh air ele before they got that huge damage nerf, they were super fun to play and fun to fight against.

    Ele doesn't need buffs it needs all the power creep to be addressed. A lot of ele builds work by reducing damage taken and healing back up what damage it takes through really high sustained healing. Sustained healing means nothing if every hit chunks off half your health and thanks to FB we saw clerics amulet removed.

    I don't miss the time when any below average Joe could become a god overnight by playing arcana/water d/d ele at 800+ healing power...that's not how a class should work and regardless the healing of an ele is still there when treated and played properly; you talk about wvw but there I can match basically any class in 1v1 on a sword weaver and win in most cases, stall in others and it becomes boring, that's not how the game supposed to work : "healing back to full despite the tremendeous amount of mistakes"

    "Invincible healbot" is not a balanced concept and should not exist in any form or shape and that's why I advocate for nerfs on boonbeast and boonbeast only , listing all sustain of a ranger is nothing more than witchhunt, it's not balance discussion

    Getting good on ranger takes time and hundreds of deaths like any other class and like it happened to other professions now ranger has a "too" accessible build due to the excessive boon generation and this build I fully agree should be nerfed more, other than that I can match any ranger build with an ele and that says it all about the veridicality of most claims made in this thread

    I'll just say this right now:

    We didn't want this bs healing build. We've been trying to get away from healing for a LONG TIME. What we ele mains originally wanted was a bruiser build that didn't make us drop from one hit, but allowed us enough wiggle to trait something that wasn't fcking water.

    We can't win. Our heal builds gets nerfed into the floor and our damage builds do absolutely jacksht for us. So we're the catch 22 class right along with Revenants as a whole.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Ranger

    @Burnfall.9573 said:
    'Guild Wars 2 [vT] Soki Shatter Mesmer | Wow Big DPS Kappa'
    Published on Dec 25, 2018

    (1 shotting multiple players at the same time)

    -all professions are Op>Power Creep at the moment. Mesmers are by far the most dangerous especially being able to 1 shot more than 1 players at the same time-

    ((As long Anet continue to not see anything wrong with their favorite: Mesmer, no serious action will be taken against Mesmer.Once again, Anet will give Mesmer 'a slap on the wrist for being too much out of control '))

    G.L

    lol NA WvW. I guess this is the reason NA seems to think focus is anything but garbage?

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