Eye On Necromancer For 2019 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Eye On Necromancer For 2019

Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited December 14, 2018 in Necromancer

I humbly present the absolute best and most superamazinglyawesome "Eye on Necromancer for 2019" ideas ever put on these forums! Read on and be amazed!

You are all very welcome btw! It has been my honor to provide such groundbreaking suggestions that will undoubtedly bring this profession "back to life"!

Huggies and Kissies everyone! Enjoy! <3 <3 <3

<3 Retain use of all slot skills while in Death Shroud and Reaper Shroud.

<3 Life Force is now purely a resource to fuel Shroud skills, not an extra health bar.

<3 Improve Life Force generation mechanics. All attacks generate Life Force.

<3 Shave a bunch of slow casting skills by ¼s to ½s

<3 Reduce all ranged AoE and PBAoE attacks to 3 targets max. Increase damage some to compensate.

<3 Add a self only Portal option utility to the following…
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper's_Mark
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Well_of_Darkness

<3 Add Ground Target Positioning utility to the following…
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Enfeebling_Blood
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unholy_Feast

<3 Change to Teleport directly to target utility on the following…
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_the_Locust
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectral_Grasp

<3 Shade Revamp
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shade
Change Manifest Shade to a ground target movement skill, and remove Shades and AoE damage function from the equation. This would provide the much needed mobility for necro and reduce some of the unhealthy AoE ranged damage spam in wvw. Let’s call this new skill “Shifting Sands”...
“Shifting Sands uses some of your life force to move around the battle field... Blah blah blah”
Damage: X
Cripple: (2s)
Number of Targets: 1
Radius: 130
Range: 900
*All other shroud skills remain the same, sans the now gone Shades.

<3 Sand Swell Revamp
Change https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Swell to 1,200 range. Remove the damage and boon conversion function. Reduce the cooldown. Make it break stun when used. Similar to skills like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadowstep and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blink
“Plunge into the ground, creating a portal through Tyria for allied use. Grant allies using this passage a health barrier. Break Stun.”
Barrier: 1,618
Duration: (8s)
Radius: 180
Range: 1,200
Break Stun
Recharge: (30s)

<3 Greatsword Revamp
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dusk_Strike
½ second activation time.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fading_Twilight
½ second activation time.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Scythe
¾ second activation time. 1s of Chill

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gravedigger
600 RANGE LEAP ATTACK (not ground target)
Damage: X
Health Threshold: 50%
Number of Targets: 3
Recharge Reduced: 100%
Combo Finisher: Whirl

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death_Spiral
600 RANGE DASH FORWARD
Damage (6x): X
12 Vulnerability: (10s)
Life Force: 2%
Number of Targets: 3

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Nightfall
900 RANGE GROUND TARGET TELEPORT
Damage: X
Boons Converted to Conditions: 4
Number of Targets: 3
Pulses: 4
Interval: (2s)
Maximum Radius: 360
Combo Field: Dark

<3 Add Stealth to the following… Also fits the theme from character creation… “A necromancer's closest companion is death. In acknowledgement of this, I mark my face with the symbol of a _____. “ “Ghostly Wraith ("ghostly wraith") — A wraith is a creature of energy, and its cunning helps it elude its enemies. What you cannot see...can kill you.”

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectral_Walk
Stealth: (5s)
Resistance: (5s)
Breaks Stun
Recharge Life Force while in Stealth
*You may return to your initial position by using Spectral Recall.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectral_Wall
Stealth: (5s)
Resistance: (5s)
Fear (1s): Involuntary retreat; unable to act; stacks duration.
Number of Targets: 10
Duration: (6s)
Combo Field: Ethereal
Range: 900
Unblockable

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Last_Gasp... Rename to something like “One With Shadows” or whatever… Add “Increased stealth duration from Necromancer skills. Gain https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Life_force while you are in stealth”

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dark_Pact
Damage: X
Stealth: (3s)
Self-Bleeding: (10s) 440 Damage
Boons Converted to Conditions: 2
Range: 600

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Locust_Swarm
Damage: X
Swiftness: (15s)
Stealth: (3s)
Life Force: 1.5%
Number of Impacts: 10
Number of Targets: 3
Duration: (10s)
Radius: 210

<3 <3 <3

Comments

  • killfil.3472killfil.3472 Member ✭✭✭

    I'd love to be able to see my cooldowns while in shroud and not have to guess what's usable upon exit! :D

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 27, 2018

    @killfil.3472 said:
    I'd love to be able to see my cooldowns while in shroud and not have to guess what's usable upon exit! :D

    I'd love that too!

    Edit- I made an edit to the OP too! My intention was that you could USE your slot skills because I traded in the extra shroud health pool.

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 27, 2018

    some are nice ideas, others not so much

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • Make Necro into thief basically.

    Ya okay.

  • Imho shroud and LF as is the main selling point of necro. If you take it away you get ... scourge. I don't like scorge.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2018

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:
    Make Necro into thief basically.

    Ya okay.

    If you consider better mobility and a few stealth skills as “thief basically”, then we might as well say Mesmers, Engineers and Rangers are also “thief basically”...

    Are you really that opposed to necro not being subpar outside of pew pewing red circles for zergs in wvw?

  • @Swagger.1459 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:
    Make Necro into thief basically.

    Ya okay.

    If you consider better mobility and a few stealth skills as “thief basically”, then we might as well say Mesmers, Engineers and Rangers are also “thief basically”...

    Well, ya. Anet kinda made everything thief...thief OP so give let’s everyone the same kit.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Dont forget about making flesh wurm a practical teleport/breakstun vs being a telegraphed "save point" that dies in 2 hits
    New Wurm

    Shadow step to target location leaving behind a summoned flesh wurm to attack your foes. (instant cast /break stun)
    Follow up with
    Teleport back to your wurm's location destroying it, gaining life force, and blind foes. (now has a small cast time)

    basically the portion that acts as the break stun needs to be flip flopped as a QoL change. This alone would make Wurm so much better.

    I dont particularly agree with stealth on spectral skills but spectral walk making you immune to movement impairing conditions would be nice.

    I only think currently that one trait should be a stealth trait for necro and its in the death magic tree
    "Beyond the Vail" should grant the necro 2 or 3 seconds of stealth upon leaving shroud. It makes sense here considering death magic is suppose to be your defense line and stealth acts as one of the strongest defense mechanics in the game. But thats just me.

  • Avigrus.2871Avigrus.2871 Member ✭✭✭

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    Dont forget about making flesh wurm a practical teleport/breakstun vs being a telegraphed "save point" that dies in 2 hits
    New Wurm

    Shadow step to target location leaving behind a summoned flesh wurm to attack your foes. (instant cast /break stun)
    Follow up with
    Teleport back to your wurm's location destroying it, gaining life force, and blind foes. (now has a small cast time)

    basically the portion that acts as the break stun needs to be flip flopped as a QoL change. This alone would make Wurm so much better.

    I dont particularly agree with stealth on spectral skills but spectral walk making you immune to movement impairing conditions would be nice.

    I only think currently that one trait should be a stealth trait for necro and its in the death magic tree
    "Beyond the Vail" should grant the necro 2 or 3 seconds of stealth upon leaving shroud. It makes sense here considering death magic is suppose to be your defense line and stealth acts as one of the strongest defense mechanics in the game. But thats just me.

    This is a great idea (new Wurm)... i support this one!

  • Zero.3871Zero.3871 Member ✭✭✭

    @Avigrus.2871 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    Dont forget about making flesh wurm a practical teleport/breakstun vs being a telegraphed "save point" that dies in 2 hits
    New Wurm

    Shadow step to target location leaving behind a summoned flesh wurm to attack your foes. (instant cast /break stun)
    Follow up with
    Teleport back to your wurm's location destroying it, gaining life force, and blind foes. (now has a small cast time)

    basically the portion that acts as the break stun needs to be flip flopped as a QoL change. This alone would make Wurm so much better.

    I dont particularly agree with stealth on spectral skills but spectral walk making you immune to movement impairing conditions would be nice.

    I only think currently that one trait should be a stealth trait for necro and its in the death magic tree
    "Beyond the Vail" should grant the necro 2 or 3 seconds of stealth upon leaving shroud. It makes sense here considering death magic is suppose to be your defense line and stealth acts as one of the strongest defense mechanics in the game. But thats just me.

    This is a great idea (new Wurm)... i support this one!

    that is probably the oldest Dream of necromancer community. a useful fleshworm teleport skill that is on the same Level like all other teleports (Judge Intervention, blinck,....). Maybe one day...

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Necro needs major love in 2019! Let’s make it happen Systems Team!

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    They could make fear better by not being countered so strongly so it has more uses in spvp.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • XECOR.2814XECOR.2814 Member ✭✭✭

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    Dont forget about making flesh wurm a practical teleport/breakstun vs being a telegraphed "save point" that dies in 2 hits
    New Wurm

    Shadow step to target location leaving behind a summoned flesh wurm to attack your foes. (instant cast /break stun)
    Follow up with
    Teleport back to your wurm's location destroying it, gaining life force, and blind foes. (now has a small cast time)

    basically the portion that acts as the break stun needs to be flip flopped as a QoL change. This alone would make Wurm so much better.

    I dont particularly agree with stealth on spectral skills but spectral walk making you immune to movement impairing conditions would be nice.

    I only think currently that one trait should be a stealth trait for necro and its in the death magic tree
    "Beyond the Vail" should grant the necro 2 or 3 seconds of stealth upon leaving shroud. It makes sense here considering death magic is suppose to be your defense line and stealth acts as one of the strongest defense mechanics in the game. But thats just me.

    -If they add breakstun to both spectral walk cast and spectral recall then it will be much better utility for use because lets be real necro needs some breakstuns as it doesnt have mobility. After condi cleanse implementation on spectral walk i dont think it needs movement impairment immunity for *balance.

    • First of all wurm cast time should be halved(much needed qol) and cd should be reduced according to how much you want to *balance it. Secondly i think on the teleport use it should do 1 aoe boon corrupt and fear in a 240units radius around wurm so that it provides some burst potential and potential combos. Passive wurm attacks should also need something because it is very flavour less right now.
  • Zero.3871Zero.3871 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 15, 2018

    "necro has one of the highest playrates last Season" ben said. this means anet plan HEAVILY nerfs to necro until playrates are one of the worst…

    the next target of anet will be axe 2, when they remove Bonus dmg by vuln or reducing base dmg...thats the whole love we get. so lets enjoy the time until next nerfday.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 15, 2018

    Still on a crazy idea, I'll expand my wish for 2019 (note that the changes suggested need to be all implemented at the same time to make sense):

    For Core necromancer:

    • The active skill of summon blood fiend, taste of death, now perform a blast finisher.
    • The active skill of summon bone fiend, rigor mortis, now have it's projectiles performing a 100% combo finisher.
    • The active skill of summon shadow fiend, haunt, now perform a leap finisher.
    • The active skill of summon flesh golem, charge, now perform a leap finisher.
    • The Death magic trait Flesh of the master no longer grant toughness per minion, instead, whenever their minions (skill category) perform a combo finisher, this finisher is also performed by the necromancer. (it doesn't duplicate the skill, only the finisher).

    Reaper's trait chilling nova now imbue the reaper's combo finisher with chilling energy when they are used in dark fields, providing additionnal effects. Ennemies affected by your combo finishers in dark fields now are also chilled for 1s.

    Scourge's trait demonic lore no longer apply burn on torment but, instead, imbue the scourge's combo finisher with burning energy when they are used in dark fields. Ennemies affected by your combo finishers in dark field now are also burnt for 2s (extra: Torment's increased damage by 33% is also removed, instead desert shroud now perform a whirl combo finisher making you and your shades send a bolt every second)

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zero.3871 said:
    "necro has one of the highest playrates last Season" ben said. this means anet plan HEAVILY nerfs to necro until playrates are one of the worst…

    the next target of anet will be axe 2, when they remove Bonus dmg by vuln or reducing base dmg...thats the whole love we get. so lets enjoy the time until next nerfday.

    This is why I think necro needs a team lead who actually plays the class.

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • I play mainly Scourge, and i really want some corrections of shade skills

    • Transfusion: The healing effect from this skill procs from sand cascade.
    • Dhuumfire: Now sand shroud pulse burning, rather than use burning with every shade skill
    • Reduce the barrier quantity of sand shroud, and transfer it into sand cascade.
    • Give barrier an innate damage reduction, like life force health.
    • Increase the might duration of opressive colapse, dissecate and ghastly breach.

    Fall down seven times, get up eight.

  • you should also add the reversal of ALL NERFS to epidemic to the point to where its back to spreading the full duration of a max stack of 25 per condition instantly to the 5 closest targets around the Epi Source within a 600 range, but hopefully these other changes you listed will make Condi necro/Reaper/Scourge ACTUALLY VIABLE but because this is stuff overall buffing necros ANET WILL NEVER DO IT so don't get your hopes up it would take a GENIE to have these changes have a CHANCE at happening

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭

    ANet should not try to make spec specific changes as the whole necro class is so messed up at this point, that this would take an amount of compence, which they proved they don't have.

    All three necro specs are so weak that it's time now to finally give them more base mobility.

    But the devs already said, that their statistics were saying, that reaper was doing too good in PvP, so I think, that they think everything is fine now.

    Alternative solution for a possible new bruiser meta build:

    The two hours I logged in after the patch, which destroyed spectral onslaught reaper, I experimented a bit with an awaken the pain, vital persistence, soul eater, blighter's boon bruiser build. Sadly they split the healing modifier for the game modes. The 20% value for PvE could make this build viable in PvP and WvW.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zero.3871 said:
    "necro has one of the highest playrates last Season" ben said. this means anet plan HEAVILY nerfs to necro until playrates are one of the worst…

    the next target of anet will be axe 2, when they remove Bonus dmg by vuln or reducing base dmg...thats the whole love we get. so lets enjoy the time until next nerfday.

    This feels very true. I’d gues the reason why necro’s play rate is high is because arenet did such a great job with the the theme and visuals of the class and people play it cuz it’s fun not becuase it’s effective. U would think arenet would capitalize on this and actually bring necro up to the level of other professions to have a large positive effect on one of the larger player bases which would be of most benefit to the game,but judging by the balance teams ability to throw blocks, invulnerability,damage and mobility around like candy exept to the squishiest classes or the slowest doesn’t lead me to believe they figure that out lol by reading the forums could the higher ups in arenet be happy at where the game is right now?

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 16, 2018

    @XECOR.2814 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    Dont forget about making flesh wurm a practical teleport/breakstun vs being a telegraphed "save point" that dies in 2 hits
    New Wurm

    Shadow step to target location leaving behind a summoned flesh wurm to attack your foes. (instant cast /break stun)
    Follow up with
    Teleport back to your wurm's location destroying it, gaining life force, and blind foes. (now has a small cast time)

    basically the portion that acts as the break stun needs to be flip flopped as a QoL change. This alone would make Wurm so much better.

    I dont particularly agree with stealth on spectral skills but spectral walk making you immune to movement impairing conditions would be nice.

    I only think currently that one trait should be a stealth trait for necro and its in the death magic tree
    "Beyond the Vail" should grant the necro 2 or 3 seconds of stealth upon leaving shroud. It makes sense here considering death magic is suppose to be your defense line and stealth acts as one of the strongest defense mechanics in the game. But thats just me.

    -If they add breakstun to both spectral walk cast and spectral recall then it will be much better utility for use because lets be real necro needs some breakstuns as it doesnt have mobility.

    That's exactly how it works right now...

    After condi cleanse implementation on spectral walk i dont think it needs movement impairment immunity for *balance.

    • First of all wurm cast time should be halved(much needed qol) and cd should be reduced according to how much you want to *balance it. Secondly i think on the teleport use it should do 1 aoe boon corrupt and fear in a 240units radius around wurm so that it provides some burst potential and potential combos. Passive wurm attacks should also need something because it is very flavour less right now.
  • Brujeria.7536Brujeria.7536 Member ✭✭✭

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @XECOR.2814 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    Dont forget about making flesh wurm a practical teleport/breakstun vs being a telegraphed "save point" that dies in 2 hits
    New Wurm

    Shadow step to target location leaving behind a summoned flesh wurm to attack your foes. (instant cast /break stun)
    Follow up with
    Teleport back to your wurm's location destroying it, gaining life force, and blind foes. (now has a small cast time)

    basically the portion that acts as the break stun needs to be flip flopped as a QoL change. This alone would make Wurm so much better.

    I dont particularly agree with stealth on spectral skills but spectral walk making you immune to movement impairing conditions would be nice.

    I only think currently that one trait should be a stealth trait for necro and its in the death magic tree
    "Beyond the Vail" should grant the necro 2 or 3 seconds of stealth upon leaving shroud. It makes sense here considering death magic is suppose to be your defense line and stealth acts as one of the strongest defense mechanics in the game. But thats just me.

    -If they add breakstun to both spectral walk cast and spectral recall then it will be much better utility for use because lets be real necro needs some breakstuns as it doesnt have mobility.

    That's exactly how it works right now...

    actually its not. Spectral recall does not break stuns. its just a teleport.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Brujeria.7536 said:
    actually its not. Spectral recall does not break stuns. its just a teleport.

    That's part of the rework. They removed the stunbreak on Recall, but the cooldown does also not reset anymore when using it.

    I think it's now better than before, esp. when considering that Spectral Walk is best used before entering shroud to have constant condi cleansing during shroud uptime (which you could achieve via DM as well, but this traitline is still trash and no serious option).

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Brujeria.7536 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @XECOR.2814 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    Dont forget about making flesh wurm a practical teleport/breakstun vs being a telegraphed "save point" that dies in 2 hits
    New Wurm

    Shadow step to target location leaving behind a summoned flesh wurm to attack your foes. (instant cast /break stun)
    Follow up with
    Teleport back to your wurm's location destroying it, gaining life force, and blind foes. (now has a small cast time)

    basically the portion that acts as the break stun needs to be flip flopped as a QoL change. This alone would make Wurm so much better.

    I dont particularly agree with stealth on spectral skills but spectral walk making you immune to movement impairing conditions would be nice.

    I only think currently that one trait should be a stealth trait for necro and its in the death magic tree
    "Beyond the Vail" should grant the necro 2 or 3 seconds of stealth upon leaving shroud. It makes sense here considering death magic is suppose to be your defense line and stealth acts as one of the strongest defense mechanics in the game. But thats just me.

    -If they add breakstun to both spectral walk cast and spectral recall then it will be much better utility for use because lets be real necro needs some breakstuns as it doesnt have mobility.

    That's exactly how it works right now...

    actually its not. Spectral recall does not break stuns. its just a teleport.

    They changed it? kitten. Another hidden nerf

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @XECOR.2814 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    Dont forget about making flesh wurm a practical teleport/breakstun vs being a telegraphed "save point" that dies in 2 hits
    New Wurm

    Shadow step to target location leaving behind a summoned flesh wurm to attack your foes. (instant cast /break stun)
    Follow up with
    Teleport back to your wurm's location destroying it, gaining life force, and blind foes. (now has a small cast time)

    basically the portion that acts as the break stun needs to be flip flopped as a QoL change. This alone would make Wurm so much better.

    I dont particularly agree with stealth on spectral skills but spectral walk making you immune to movement impairing conditions would be nice.

    I only think currently that one trait should be a stealth trait for necro and its in the death magic tree
    "Beyond the Vail" should grant the necro 2 or 3 seconds of stealth upon leaving shroud. It makes sense here considering death magic is suppose to be your defense line and stealth acts as one of the strongest defense mechanics in the game. But thats just me.

    -If they add breakstun to both spectral walk cast and spectral recall then it will be much better utility for use because lets be real necro needs some breakstuns as it doesnt have mobility. After condi cleanse implementation on spectral walk i dont think it needs movement impairment immunity for *balance.

    It would still make more sense to have done it that way imo as it would have promoted the mobility behind the skill. But this is flexible i guess.

    • First of all wurm cast time should be halved(much needed qol) and cd should be reduced according to how much you want to *balance it. Secondly i think on the teleport use it should do 1 aoe boon corrupt and fear in a 240units radius around wurm so that it provides some burst potential and potential combos. Passive wurm attacks should also need something because it is very flavour less right now.

    The first wurm cast should just teleport you and be instant none of this halfed cast bs. As a break stun tool you shouldn't have to place it (telling people) where you are going to go when you want to escape. Not to mention it can be killed before you can use it without it even providing a fair amount of time for you to abuse the situation of some one going for it. Just port and spawn the wurm at the same time. Then flip the skill to be used as a 2nd teleport back to the wurm.

    We actually dont need anymore boon corrupts. IF we get more boon corrupts at this point its just to counter boon splatter that all other professions are getting so willy nilly.

    Anet needs to cull boons down to a handle full on each profession, much like necro already has (having only mostly might, protection, and personal swiftness) if they do this for every profession we wont need new boon corrupts or increased boon corrupts added to reworked or new skills and traits. Consider this every time there is a boon corrupt it does 2 things

    • Serves no current purpose in pve except in high end few fractal situations
    • Replaces what could have been a stronger tool or mechanic that could have been at the necromancers disposal from things like hard defenses to mobility
  • Patrick.2987Patrick.2987 Member ✭✭✭

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Brujeria.7536 said:
    actually its not. Spectral recall does not break stuns. its just a teleport.

    That's part of the rework. They removed the stunbreak on Recall, but the cooldown does also not reset anymore when using it.

    I think it's now better than before, esp. when considering that Spectral Walk is best used before entering shroud to have constant condi cleansing during shroud uptime (which you could achieve via DM as well, but this traitline is still trash and no serious option).

    If you just call DM trash you have no clue about the game at least for pvp and maybe wvw.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Patrick.2987 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Brujeria.7536 said:
    actually its not. Spectral recall does not break stuns. its just a teleport.

    That's part of the rework. They removed the stunbreak on Recall, but the cooldown does also not reset anymore when using it.

    I think it's now better than before, esp. when considering that Spectral Walk is best used before entering shroud to have constant condi cleansing during shroud uptime (which you could achieve via DM as well, but this traitline is still trash and no serious option).

    If you just call DM trash you have no clue about the game at least for pvp and maybe wvw.

    oh its still trash If you think its good now then you have no clue about the game especially in pvp and wvw (stop thinking about just that 1 minion trait)

    Because of the fact that blood magic still does what its suppose to do better blood magic literally makes death magic's role a complete joke by doing everything it does better
    Death magic has a little condition removal
    Blood magic offers removal into life force
    Blood magic offers better healing
    Blood magic offers protection via wells
    Blood magic offers minion sustain

    The only thing death magic offers that blood magic does not is a minion spawn trait to make players feel happy after its been requested for some years and some toughness which unless you go for a legit maximum toughness build amounts to Nothing when it comes down to eating a meaty burst.

  • Patrick.2987Patrick.2987 Member ✭✭✭

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Patrick.2987 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Brujeria.7536 said:
    actually its not. Spectral recall does not break stuns. its just a teleport.

    That's part of the rework. They removed the stunbreak on Recall, but the cooldown does also not reset anymore when using it.

    I think it's now better than before, esp. when considering that Spectral Walk is best used before entering shroud to have constant condi cleansing during shroud uptime (which you could achieve via DM as well, but this traitline is still trash and no serious option).

    If you just call DM trash you have no clue about the game at least for pvp and maybe wvw.

    oh its still trash If you think its good now then you have no clue about the game especially in pvp and wvw (stop thinking about just that 1 minion trait)

    Because of the fact that blood magic still does what its suppose to do better blood magic literally makes death magic's role a complete joke by doing everything it does better
    Death magic has a little condition removal
    Blood magic offers removal into life force
    Blood magic offers better healing
    Blood magic offers protection via wells
    Blood magic offers minion sustain

    The only thing death magic offers that blood magic does not is a minion spawn trait to make players feel happy after its been requested for some years and some toughness which unless you go for a legit maximum toughness build amounts to Nothing when it comes down to eating a meaty burst.

    IT is not about minions but toughness, near perma protection and lower incoming condition damage. It is stronger vs conditions and vs direct dmg so only healing is worse. Healing is getting better if you have to heal less tho. 3k armor + protection + 36% less incoming condition damage is pretty decent. Protection from wells is only applied if you cast them on yourself and you invest your utility slots for it at the cost of lifeforce and stunbreaks etc.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Patrick.2987 said:
    IT is not about minions but toughness, near perma protection and lower incoming condition damage. It is stronger vs conditions and vs direct dmg so only healing is worse. Healing is getting better if you have to heal less tho. 3k armor + protection + 36% less incoming condition damage is pretty decent. Protection from wells is only applied if you cast them on yourself and you invest your utility slots for it at the cost of lifeforce and stunbreaks etc.

    You'll have to tell me where you find "near perma protection" in DM. 3 seconds of prot every 10s (if you flash shroud) isn't going to put you close to "near perma protection". It's even worse in PvP an WvW where it can just be removed or corrupted. The point is that Blood magic still largely outsustain any damage mitigation that DM can provide you and barely have prot uptime on top of that. If you need toughness, you gear for it, the extra toughness given by the traitline isn't going to do you any good. In fact it even end up being an issue for PvE content where this extra toughness is not welcome.

  • Patrick.2987Patrick.2987 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Patrick.2987 said:
    IT is not about minions but toughness, near perma protection and lower incoming condition damage. It is stronger vs conditions and vs direct dmg so only healing is worse. Healing is getting better if you have to heal less tho. 3k armor + protection + 36% less incoming condition damage is pretty decent. Protection from wells is only applied if you cast them on yourself and you invest your utility slots for it at the cost of lifeforce and stunbreaks etc.

    You'll have to tell me where you find "near perma protection" in DM. 3 seconds of prot every 10s (if you flash shroud) isn't going to put you close to "near perma protection". It's even worse in PvP an WvW where it can just be removed or corrupted. The point is that Blood magic still largely outsustain any damage mitigation that DM can provide you and barely have prot uptime on top of that. If you need toughness, you gear for it, the extra toughness given by the traitline isn't going to do you any good. In fact it even end up being an issue for PvE content where this extra toughness is not welcome.

    Heal can not sustain burst but ok. Armor gives prot, ring gives prot, both traits give prot, you obviously use a prot duration rune which also offers prot on hit. If you only face 1v1 specs you might be right since they can outsustain you otherwise probably but versus bursts protection and high armor is definitely better espacially when you always have a crosshair above your head as soon as a fight starts.

  • Warscythes.9307Warscythes.9307 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 21, 2018

    @Patrick.2987 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Patrick.2987 said:
    IT is not about minions but toughness, near perma protection and lower incoming condition damage. It is stronger vs conditions and vs direct dmg so only healing is worse. Healing is getting better if you have to heal less tho. 3k armor + protection + 36% less incoming condition damage is pretty decent. Protection from wells is only applied if you cast them on yourself and you invest your utility slots for it at the cost of lifeforce and stunbreaks etc.

    You'll have to tell me where you find "near perma protection" in DM. 3 seconds of prot every 10s (if you flash shroud) isn't going to put you close to "near perma protection". It's even worse in PvP an WvW where it can just be removed or corrupted. The point is that Blood magic still largely outsustain any damage mitigation that DM can provide you and barely have prot uptime on top of that. If you need toughness, you gear for it, the extra toughness given by the traitline isn't going to do you any good. In fact it even end up being an issue for PvE content where this extra toughness is not welcome.

    Heal can not sustain burst but ok. Armor gives prot, ring gives prot, both traits give prot, you obviously use a prot duration rune which also offers prot on hit. If you only face 1v1 specs you might be right since they can outsustain you otherwise probably but versus bursts protection and high armor is definitely better espacially when you always have a crosshair above your head as soon as a fight starts.

    Do you run DM/SR with protection runes?

    The thing is that I sort of know who you are as there aren't that many high elo reaper players, but I also know you like to run off meta builds to handicap yourself for fun. So I can't tell when you are actually being 200iq or are you posting off meta builds that you play because is fun. Death magic has been a meme for so long that is going to take quite a bit to convince others. Some information would be great.

  • Patrick.2987Patrick.2987 Member ✭✭✭

    Idk just can say it is great from testing so far playing with high dps team. You just survive longer than your opponents and cleave.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Patrick.2987 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Patrick.2987 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Brujeria.7536 said:
    actually its not. Spectral recall does not break stuns. its just a teleport.

    That's part of the rework. They removed the stunbreak on Recall, but the cooldown does also not reset anymore when using it.

    I think it's now better than before, esp. when considering that Spectral Walk is best used before entering shroud to have constant condi cleansing during shroud uptime (which you could achieve via DM as well, but this traitline is still trash and no serious option).

    If you just call DM trash you have no clue about the game at least for pvp and maybe wvw.

    oh its still trash If you think its good now then you have no clue about the game especially in pvp and wvw (stop thinking about just that 1 minion trait)

    Because of the fact that blood magic still does what its suppose to do better blood magic literally makes death magic's role a complete joke by doing everything it does better
    Death magic has a little condition removal
    Blood magic offers removal into life force
    Blood magic offers better healing
    Blood magic offers protection via wells
    Blood magic offers minion sustain

    The only thing death magic offers that blood magic does not is a minion spawn trait to make players feel happy after its been requested for some years and some toughness which unless you go for a legit maximum toughness build amounts to Nothing when it comes down to eating a meaty burst.

    IT is not about minions but toughness, near perma protection and lower incoming condition damage. It is stronger vs conditions and vs direct dmg so only healing is worse. Healing is getting better if you have to heal less tho. 3k armor + protection + 36% less incoming condition damage is pretty decent. Protection from wells is only applied if you cast them on yourself and you invest your utility slots for it at the cost of lifeforce and stunbreaks etc.

    The toughness you get from death magic is about 180 if you don't run minions and thats only in shroud
    If you run minions it depends on them not going down fast to up keep the toughness which be both know does not happen because they are bad and have little defense against other players especially.

    You wont find perma protection in necormancer even if you combine the new necormancer trait with shroud flassing and protection from blood magic via wells. its not even close to having perma protection. A mesmer can achieve levels of perma protection along with several other boons by dropping a few spells while dealign considerably more damage Elementalist can achieve perma protection with ease depending on their spec along with other boons and while they are more squishy they have damage avoidance tools to keep them safe.

    Even if we could get perma protection and way more toughness from death magic it wont equal to to the sheer level that damage avoidance tools like evades, stealth, blocks provide on other professions on the same armor class no less.

    So no it s really about how much damage you can avoid and how much you can reduce while sustaining yourself.
    Blood magic currently acts as a sustain tool for potential healing through offensive actions which is ok.
    Death magic should be acting as the tool to help avoid and reduce damage even more.
    While yes toughness will help reduce some damage its very minor we might be talking less than 5% when you look at the trait line alone when it comes to strike damage and more with condition depending on how you spec.
    What death magic does not do is improve damage avoidance, nore does it provide means to do so through boons like aegis or boosting certain weapon traits that would have blocks or evades on them (which is none on the necormancer)

    So yes DEATH MAGIC is still trash. Until it does what

    • Defense does for a warrior
    • Wilderness Survival Does for a ranger
    • Shadow Arts does for a Theif
    • Chaos does for a mesmer
      (just to name a few examples)
      IT WILL BE REGARDED AS TRASH! lol sorry i got a bit triggered.
  • Patrick.2987Patrick.2987 Member ✭✭✭

    Corrupter's fervor adds another 300 toughness and u might take an amulet with toughness.

  • @Patrick.2987 said:
    Corrupter's fervor adds another 300 toughness and u might take an amulet with toughness.

    Do you take shrouded removal or putrid defense? I might give this a whirl later.

    For SR, do you take soul barbs or the one that gives lf when feared? Since I recall you talking about spectral ring, do you just run full spectral then?

  • Patrick.2987Patrick.2987 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 21, 2018

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Patrick.2987 said:
    Corrupter's fervor adds another 300 toughness and u might take an amulet with toughness.

    Do you take shrouded removal or putrid defense? I might give this a whirl later.

    For SR, do you take soul barbs or the one that gives lf when feared? Since I recall you talking about spectral ring, do you just run full spectral then?

    Yep staff ofc for condi application to stack fervor and mostly shrouded removal since 10% on much reduced damage is almost nothing as it is not additive. I like fear trait a lot more, for lf same for marks and shroud obviously with damage traits 600 ferocity, quickness and 33% crit. Heal mostly shout traited but if you face alot of conditions relentless pursuit and consume conditions might be better. Sigils not sure probably sth like agility the cleansing and purity and energy or sth and rune i can not decide if grove or earth is better. I think grove might get the upper hand with more prot duration and the 15s prot field even tho the stat is worse. Amulet i only played demolisher so far.

  • @Patrick.2987 said:

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Patrick.2987 said:
    Corrupter's fervor adds another 300 toughness and u might take an amulet with toughness.

    Do you take shrouded removal or putrid defense? I might give this a whirl later.

    For SR, do you take soul barbs or the one that gives lf when feared? Since I recall you talking about spectral ring, do you just run full spectral then?

    yep staff ofc for condi application to stack fervor and mostly shrouded removal since 10% on much reduced damage is almost nothing as it is not additive. I like fear trait a lot more, for lf same for marks and shroud obviously with damage traits 600 ferocity, quickness and 33% crit. Heal mostly shout traited but if you face alot of conditions relentless pursuit and consume conditions might be better. Sigils not sure and rune i can not decide if grove or earth is better i think grove might get the upper hand with more prot duration and the 15s prot field even tho the stat is worse. Amulet i only played demolisher so far.

    utility would be spectral walk, ring and armor? Is grasp just outdated now? I figure everybody was running it last season.

  • Patrick.2987Patrick.2987 Member ✭✭✭

    You will have enough lf gain without and walk got that nice cd reduction and condiremove so you can drop grasp

  • @Patrick.2987 said:
    You will have enough lf gain without and walk got that nice cd reduction and condiremove so you can drop grasp

    cheers, I will give it a shot later tonight.

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