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World Restructuring Update 2


Raymond Lukes.6305

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@Blocki.4931 said:

@"Rangerdeity.5847" said:The most concerning thing about this post is how many times he says "I" as if he is the only one working on it. That was always a joke that they have exactly one dev working on it I am kinda stressed to see that might be literally what is happening.

He's just talking out of his perspective because he is the one making the post

He mentions multiple times "i am done with or I am almost done with or I am working on" those "i"'s should be "we"'s shouldnt they?

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@Rangerdeity.5847 said:

@Rangerdeity.5847 said:The most concerning thing about this post is how many times he says "I" as if he is the only one working on it. That was always a joke that they have exactly one dev working on it I am kinda stressed to see that might be literally what is happening.

He's just talking out of his perspective because he is the one making the post

He mentions multiple times "i am done with or I am almost done with or I am working on" those "i"'s should be "we"'s shouldnt they?Maybe he's just taking credit for everything the team does, who knows. It really doesnt matter. People have been asking for an update, they got an update.
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@Lord Of The Tree.5249 said:As one of the members that been on the game since the beginning have seen some good changes and some bad but from what I can see WvW is in it's death wiggle. Doubt if the changes are really going to make a difference. There are many areas broken but we at least have roller beetle racing and a frigging dog whistle.

I still haven’t unlocked the beetle...

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I've read all the comments and I think 500 limit is fine, since its the elected wvwers of your guild, for the alliance. Hopefully wvwers can be approved by officers... before being let into the guild's wvw section. If guild members WvW Levels would display in theguild's wvw tab & "alliance panel" it would also be useful. Oh and who has commander tags... Also when someone applies for the wvw section of a guild, can they tick for small scale fights or large scale fights? So that you'd know in a more convenient manner if its roamer types or zergers... and so that an Alliance Marshal can view the stats of an allied Guild, to know if they need more blobbies or roamers, etc.

I'm really curious as to the New Guild UIs & Alliance UI...

Also since wvw is sort of messy at the moment, would Anent consider making transfers free, at the present moment, in order for Guilds to start pulling their members to their servers? If they're full they can move their guild to a smaller server until they have all their members with them... to start "helping" form alliances, recruit... if you're a new wvw guild, since people you find open world has a hard time joining you unless they have a free transfer. Especially for those who want to get into wvw now and breath new life into it. (While we wait for the wvw aliance update.)

Maybe a Free transfer every 8 weeks, until the new system?

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@Heartpains.7312 said:Basically if we have 3 teams, team A,B and C all of them have 100 player in the team.Team A 100 player logs for 2hoursTeam B 100 player logs for 4hoursTeam C 100 player logs for 8hours

it should neither happen now, nor in an alliance-future that these 3 teams are in one match.

Teams are NOT balance by equal number of players, but by equal number of player-hour.In your example Team A has 200 player-hours, Team B has 400 player-hour, Team C has 8oo player-hours.

And the reason is obvious if you distribute this over (nearly) a full day of 8to simplify math) 20 hours:

Team A has in mean 10 player on the map (10 times 20h = 200 player-hours)Team B has in mean 20 player on map (20 times 20h = 400 player-hours)Team C has in mean 40 players on map (40 times 20h = 800 player-hours)

Admittedly no Team has ever it's mean (but not it's total either) number of players on the map, but I hope you see the general point:

The amount of player per team together on a map at any point of time, is determined by it's total number of player-hours, not by it's total number of players.

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About balancing teams & players:

  1. The "newbie / low kdr" players should have pririoty to be balanced out across all teams, so no team has a massive bad player population, because its impossible to balance a bad majority team by putting a few really good players into them (this does not actually balance a team at all with this many players).
    Teams have to be bulk balanced around the average player level to avoid really good or really bad player populations from converging into major team disrupting balance issues. (I hope what i'm saying are things already been looked at).Dont just balance out the good players, it is equally important that the bad players get spread out around all teams!

  2. Good players with lots of playtime (cough), with the current info, it seems they will always be punished for playing wvw if they dont join a wvw alliance (will they get default balanced onto the worst possible team Tyria can create...?).

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@"The Path Finder.3197" said:I've read all the comments and I think 500 limit is fine, since its the elected wvwers of your guild, for the alliance. Hopefully wvwers can be approved by officers... before being let into the guild's wvw section. If guild members WvW Levels would display in theguild's wvw tab & "alliance panel" it would also be useful. Oh and who has commander tags... Also when someone applies for the wvw section of a guild, can they tick for small scale fights or large scale fights? So that you'd know in a more convenient manner if its roamer types or zergers... and so that an Alliance Marshal can view the stats of an allied Guild, to know if they need more blobbies or roamers, etc.

I'm really curious as to the New Guild UIs & Alliance UI...

Also since wvw is sort of messy at the moment, would Anent consider making transfers free, at the present moment, in order for Guilds to start pulling their members to their servers? If they're full they can move their guild to a smaller server until they have all their members with them... to start "helping" form alliances, recruit... if you're a new wvw guild, since people you find open world has a hard time joining you unless they have a free transfer. Especially for those who want to get into wvw now and breath new life into it. (While we wait for the wvw aliance update.)

Maybe a Free transfer every 8 weeks, until the new system?

Not likely as many guilds are ‘practicing’ by spending their gems to bandwag... errr transfer to linked servers to steamro... er practice.

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Talindra, I do believe that people appreciate the update and so on, but some people are truly concerned about things such as the time it takes to finish this project and with the numbers changing and so on ... and we don't want more people to leave, we should be hoping to get more players not hoping that people to leave (regardless of their comments).

By the way if you are always getting the positive comments you will end up stuck in one place at some point, I believe that sometimes the negative comments/feedback is what makes us get better and improve. ( I didn't get to read all the comments maybe some of them are toxic but that's another thing) but negative comments are fine as long as they are put together in good manners, specially if they do make a good point.

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@"Dragun.4509" said:Hi, where to even start lol...

So, Lets say Alliances hit over night and it just "works as intended"

So, what are we to believe that means? and "why" is it going to be benefiting.

As stated by Anet, its NOT going to solve coverage issues or even take them into account right away.

So what is it going to do? "its going to quote divide the populations into even smaller portions to work with"

So that the Anet Gods can do what? finally BALANCE populations right?

But How? are you going to FORCE oxc/sea guilds into alliances they may not want to be in?

and how "thin" do you think, you can spread populations before WvW isn't WvW anymore?

as is right now, how many alliances do you think "can" be formed that would in reality give the "feel" of "coverage" and what REAL WvWing is?

and what is the best way to arrive at this answer? - to look at what we have right now correct?

I mean sure, we can hope that once the alliance system is announced PLAYERS WILL RETURN IN MASS!!!!

but what will they return to? and do you REALLY think it will be such a new and enriching experience that it'll keep them here for long?when even a 15 minute downtime in coverage can mean your entire map, and everything your team has protected throughout the day is annihilated cus you got NOBODY and siege is nearly worthless?

And i'm sure, the magics of coverage fixing isn't exactly going to happen over night either right?

I mean look at how long we have basically been being told the same thing BIG ANNOUNCEMENT GUYS! "oh we're making progress things are happening!coming soon™"

How long do you think it'll take to get "coverage solved" and actually see any kind of benefit out of the "new system"i mean wasn't the alliance system originally brought up to solve coverage issues? and now its not even going to be doing that "right away"so alliance system 1-2 years likely to implement(total i'm hoping who really knows tho right? not even Anet apparently...), another 1-2 years to "fix" coverage? lol...

How many people do you think are going to flock away from this game, once you destroy the communities?or are bluntly so overwhelming dissapointed by a system thats going to be in the works for over a year now likely, and not really fix anything, just more of the same....

BIGGER question, when it is a complete disaster, as many people who have played this game for 6 years KNOWS how big of a untested, unreliable, complete mess new releases and content from anet are/is INNATELY.how long is it going to be to fix that stuff? its not even a paid expansion like HOT, and any WvWer knows exactly how bad, and how "tested" that TRULY was... AND HOW LONG IT TOOK TO CHANGE ANYTHING...

And now its going to be "Harder" to transfer to where you want to go? and make it harder for the average person/pug to find an active alliance?

and How are they going to "join" those few "good" alliances? - "NO EXPANSION PACK REQUIRED" LOL how many pugs are going to RNG into dead alliances or bluntly be refused from the "few" good alliances that will ultimately be "possible"...THIS SOUNDS LIKE A TRULY PLAYER ENRICHING EXPERIENCE TO ME!

  • i think thats been a huge part of the problem for a long time now, servers going full status for no real reason and being kept on full status for far to long causing guilds to stack links or dead servers to get their entire team in and its only going to get worse? lol...1 pug who plays 48 hours is still only 1 guy taking up who knows how many population slots along the way and potentially stopping their server from getting any meaningful population...

But Anet believes right now thats the best "metric" is "time played" without any consideration to coverage or actual "worth" of the people idling or capping camps or just going out an getting destroyed solo...

Yaks Bend for example has been "full status" since PVE-Halloween Event (somehow 5-6+weeks now) and we've lost guilds some large(60+members), yet still "full" and the only thing it has done is encourage me to NOT play even with a near 12 hour DEADZONE in the hopes we get off full status for long enough to get any kind of meaningful transfers.

Is it going to better our quality of life? or do absolutely ANYTHING FUN OR MEANINGFUL or enriching? - i really doubt it -ultimately its going to be "MORE OF THE SAME" - best case scenario - I'd love for example to be-able to use more then my 1 skill in a SMC 3 way que fight particularly on reset night.... Maybe work on your packet compression, or engine, or core machines you run the game on, instead of giving out free cars from pve-events ect with the gem store money you get... or maybe when a siege print is 100% built, it ACTUALLY BE 100% built... and maybe i dunno, promote world vs world alot better? by giving people a reason to enter the gamemode and spend a little time there, like map completion used to do... and maybe a SERVER WIDE Chat - where we can ask our community's pve population for help kinda like what people did in lions arch back in the day to get people into WvW when stuff is going on...

anyways have fun responding and picking out 1 or 2 things you can make an argument about out of my statements and ignoring the rest which is equally as important o7

Wishing you the Best Anet GOODLUCK, you need it...

Man I can't speak for sea, but all the ocx has moved to FA and kaineng. These players utterly depress and bore me. And I've had to do the same just because ocx is virtually dead in all other places. Our ocx community used to spread out and have fun on the other servers but bandwagoning has killed it. No one in ocx wants challenges. I honestly don't think alliances could make ocx any worse than it already is.

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@Talindra.4958 said:

@"duillyn.2697" said:Negative comment, no need. Thank you for the update, gl with it.Totally agree. ppl thats so unappreciative.. I hope they leave the game.. :)If Living Story had not had an update for years (or only seen two rather poor arcs in six years), there had been no story what so ever with Path of Fire and there had only been two posts about how it is still nowhere near completion in a full year… How do you think the PvE Community would have responded?

If some daft WvW meow smirkly came into their forums and told them to be more appreciative or that they should just quit the game. How would that have been received? That's kind of how we feel about you now.

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@necromancin.2396 said:Instead of all this convoluted alliance malarkey, why not introduce some Red vs Blue faction war instead? You choose a colour/faction and are locked to it. To prevent over pop of one faction, lock it, like you already do with servers, until it balances itself out.If you are locked to a faction and people leave - which they will either naturally or because they find it boring - how is it supposed to balance itself? You cant have both locked factions and balancing. Its an impossibility. Its like saying go left and right at the same time.

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Only allow people to leave once every quarter via a gem store purchase; if the faction you're wanting to transfer to is full, then you're out of luck. You could also make the selection permanent. Factions work in other games, I don't see why it couldn't here, especially since it isn't lore related.

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@"necromancin.2396" said:Only allow people to leave once every quarter via a gem store purchase; if the faction you're wanting to transfer to is full, then you're out of luck. You could also make the selection permanent. Factions work in other games, I don't see why it couldn't here, especially since it isn't lore related.That's not how reality work. People will leave regardless of being "allowed" to or not. They can simply stop playing. Balance will never happen if you only allow some arbitrary player move every quarter - they just wont move. Why should they join a dying faction? You can see the result of a transfer system no one use for "balancing" in the current worlds. People use it only when they get an advantage, ie stacking worlds to win. Your idea of locked factions would work the exact same way. Well, except it would be 10x worse than now since instead of 15+ worlds where half are dying we'd have 3 worlds where all are dying.

Free transfers or heavily penalized transfer, neither leads to balance.

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@Knighthonor.4061 said:Should do Factions like EoTM did

Which.... was based on servers winning matchups. The servers in the previous matchups that won were green, blue for second, red for third.

So, random assignment?

How do you meet up with your guild?

And let’s say you divide people into red green and blue and lock them in: people will leave once one becomes better at it than others thus throwing off balance.

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@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@"Knighthonor.4061" said:Should do Factions like EoTM did

Which.... was based on servers winning matchups. The servers in the previous matchups that won were green, blue for second, red for third.

So, random assignment?

How do you meet up with your guild?

And let’s say you divide people into red green and blue and lock them in: people will leave once one becomes better at it than others thus throwing off balance.


It was Christmas 2018...

The above quote really details what WvW players want...Healthy Competitive Weekly Match-Ups...imho

Naturally Reward players by allowing World Ranks to have a deeper meaning based on Healthy Competitive Match-Ups.

It's a nice thought that we're getting something that In-directly Fixes our Match-Ups, but doesn't really do a good job...because it avoids/ignores the main problem...which is a Bad Match-Up model that typically encourages an un-healthy

scenario where the other 2 Alliances in the room are stuck in a Tier they'd rather not be.

(Alliance Linking = Team Creation v2.0)or(World Linking = Team Creation v1.0)

We're repeating the same fix & expecting a different result.


So maybe for Christmas 2019?

Can we...Change or Replace our current Match-Up design model (Fixed 3 way fight using a Tiered Pyramid) with something else that can Directly Fix things...so we Can Have Healthy Competitive Weekly Match-Ups instead?

Nobody wants to be stuck Weekly or Month after Month in a Fixed 3 Way Fight with a

...unless you're on the Team that's the Gorilla.

No specific dates or pressure to hit a deadline...just a simple "timeline" where there is a reasonable assumption that we might be able to expect delivery?https://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/grub/2017/11/29/29-dominos-pizza-tracker.w1200.h630.jpg

Above Dominos Pizza tracker link credited to Capitol.3815

Yours truly,Diku

Credibility requires critical insight & time.


p.s.

Any solution for WvW needs to allow for Healthy Competitive Weekly Match-Ups that:

1) Reduce the direct impact of Server stacking to Match-Ups2) Allow friends & family to play together from many different Worlds3) Allow Off-peak capping, but let players to work out a solution themselves

See some of my past posts...please vote Helpful or Thumbs up if you agree.

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@"Raymond Lukes.6305" said:

What is next? What comes after World Restructuring?Whoa now! We should not get ahead of ourselves. World Restructuring is only one of the irons we have in the fire so we are talking about things post World Restructuring. These are things we are not ready or able to discuss yet but we’ll update you when we have more things to relay.

When you say "only one of the Irons we have in the fire", do you mean the WvW fire? As in there will be some love given to WvW in the next year or so?

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WvW is ANET's best gem grab to date. The rampant bandwagoning means that a majority of those who don't spend gems will login to wvw having forced to face hundreds of players with just a couple of guys chased around the whole map just to take a camp for the whole week.

For now gw2 is not a game I can recommend to families and friends to purchase for its wvw game mode. It's kind of degrading to play something like this. It's still a great game for the pve content.

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